Re: ac's Botticelli Thread

1

Thanks Tia. The letter is T.

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2

Are you known for your graphic representations of the human skeletal structure?

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Hmm. The word "graphic" made me think of Tom o' Finland. But I don't know who you mean, LB.

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I'm afraid I don't quite understand what a first-order question is.

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Just that it has to have a specific person in mind?

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First order questions describe someone you are trying to stump me with--like LB's. Second order are yes or no questions designed to get closer to my person.

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Are you a composer with several ballets to your credit?

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designed to get closer to my person.

Hott!

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9

It's a question including enough information to pick out a particular person with the correct initial. If the person playing can't come up with an answer that matches the question, they can then be asked a second-order question about their own person.

Clearly you aren't David Copperfield's classmate, Traddles.

Are you alive?

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10

No, I'm not Tchaikovsky. (Suddenly unsure of spelling.)

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11

No, I'm not alive.

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12

So I'm still at first-order questions, yes?

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Yes, apo.

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14

Was I precise and mathematically gifted?

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15

Are you a Scottish botanist?

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16

Are you someone Bill Mahr listed in his book as an example of the kind of person our society should be treating as a hero?

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17

14- No, I'm not, um... was there a mathematician named Tauber?

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18

I can't think of a Scottish botanist.

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Hey could I make a request as to your answer format: it would be really useful and helpful if you boldfaced your answers to 2nd-order questions. This would allow quick perusal of the thread thus far without getting sidetracked by the 1st-order stuff.

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20

And I haven't read Bill Maher's book.

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21

Were you Borked?

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22

18: then you must not be Templeton. Are you European?

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23

19- Ok will do.

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24

20: You're not Pat Tillman.

Are you real?

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22- Yes, I am European, and, to recap, I am not alive.

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26

Were you wrongly suspected of killing the ambassador to the U.N.?

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24- I am real.

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28

First order: did you once help to rescue someone with your foraging skills?

(Someone may argue this is illegitimate. I'll let ac decide.)

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29

Thanks -- that makes this game way more fun.

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30

Jeremy, is the UN ambassador in question Bernadotte? I don't know who was suspected of assassinating him.

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31

28- Er, Thumper?

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32

30: then you must not be Roger Thornhill. Do you write books?

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33

Oh, right, from North by Northwest. The fictional thing makes it tricky. But I'm in favor of fictional possibilities here.

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34

I guess I don't understand the rules on this: what is the impact on my question of ac's saying she wasn't someone I wasn't thinking of, and can't judge if did or didn't meet my criteria?

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32- I'm almost certain that I have written a book.

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31: No, Templeton the rat from Charlotte's Web, but I guess you gleaned the origin of my doubts about its legitimacy. Do you want to accept anthropomorphized animals?

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37

Are you a painter commonly associated with a particular color?

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38

If I meet the terms of your question, whether or not you were thinking of that person, you don't get a second order. I was guessing, though. If there's no Tauber mathematician--which I grant you leave to look up--you win the point.

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39

You need to figure out if her answer did meet your criteria (through googling, conversation, however.) If her answer works, your first order question fails (but you could re-ask a similar question, aiming at the same person, with a smidge more information to exclude the answer she just gave). If her answer doesn't work, she fails and you get to ask her a 2d order question.

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40

I'm staying away from google myself, though, so other people will have to look things up and correct me.

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41

(I can't remember an incident in which Thumper rescued someone through foraging.)

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37- No, I'm not Titian?

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I'll allow anthropomorphic animals. And ok, Thumper didn't rescue anyone. (???)

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44

Did you work at Bletchley Park?

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45

Are you a woman?

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46

There was, according to Wikopedia, a mathematician named Tauber who died at Theresienstadt in 1942. There is no description of his personality, although "mathematically gifted" may I suppose be inferred.

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If you want, though, you can re-ask 14 if you add another fact that differentiates your guy from Tauber. (Or so I've always played.)

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48

I think I have to give up already. Mine was too easy.

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49

*delurk*

There was in fact a mathematician named Tauber.

Are you a Scandinavian who's associated with penguins?

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Huh? We haven't even gotten close yet -- how can it be too easy?

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Never mind.

You guys are quick!

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48: Has someone guessed it? You can start again, and you can play with My Alter Ego's variant to make it harder for the questioners.

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Yes, someone has guessed it. Remind me of My Alter Ego's variant?

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54

Was it Turing? Or who?

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This feels stilted even to me, Mr. Stilt: Given your reputation, what you are famous for, were you surprisingly preoccupied with measure and calculation?

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Turing.

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57

(well, I certainly don't know who you're talking about, so I could keep playing, but...)

My Alter Ego's variant is to restrict the questioners to questions about people who fit the description of your person thus far. So if we know your person's a woman, only women, etc. That would be really hard, but maybe fun.

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58

And I couldn't think of someone else who worked at BP with a T. An H! A J! But no T.

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59

That's so funny; I thought of asking a first order about Turing but I didn't know how to phrase it so you wouldn't know exactly who I meant.

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60

I did have an alternate person, starting with a C. But up to you guys.

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61

I win! Totally inadvertant victories count, right?

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62

But was JM's question a first or second order? You could have said "No I'm not Turing" to a first order question.

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63

Sure, let's go. Are you wearing a hat in the most famous image of you?

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64

Well, I was wondering if I could do that, I know it was discussed on the other thread. But it seems too confusing.

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65

Did you ever describe the flight of a projectile in exasperating detail?

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66

I did have an alternate person, starting with a C.

Are you a Panamanian in the Baseball Hall of Fame?

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67

Are you guys giving me a second chance? Really?!!! O frabjous day.

63- Not Churchill.

65- Um? No idea.

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66- Yes, go ahead, stump me with sports questions. No idea.

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69

Heh. You are not Rod Carew.

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70

Did you finish out your days in exile? (And BTW, are we doing the MAE variant discussed above? I'm not clear whether or no.)

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71

Are you alive?

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72

I don't think we need to do the MAE variant.

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73

Oops, ignore 70 -- it is based on an incorrect memory.

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74

71- No, I'm not alive.

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75

You're not James Fenimore Cooper.

Are you a woman?

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76

75- No, I'm not a woman.

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77

Maybe I'm showing an ugly Canadian streak here, but the most famous image of Churchill is Youseff Karsh's portrait. No hat.

I demand satisfaction, or would, if I wasn't a Canadian. Gee, it would sure be nice if somebody felt there should be some satisfaction somewhere...

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78

Does asking a second-order question mean that the questioner then returns to a first-order question next?

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78- Yeah, you return.

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80

77- Ask your person question differently, I shouldn't be that hard to stump.

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81

Did you sex Mutombo?

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82

I realize I never answered the Borked question above, but that was for the first person anyway. (And I wasn't Clarence Thomas.)

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83

81- Other people clearly know more about Mutombo's sexings than I.

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82 - I was thinking John Tower. Thomas got confirmed.

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85

Were you once Donald Rumsfeld's protege?

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86

True! I owe you a 2nd order and you can cash in now, if you like.

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87

85- I should know, but I don't.

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88

Ha HA! So you aren't Dick Cheney.

2nd order: Did you write books?

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89

I didn't have anyone in mind, just thought it had to be asked.

You judge performances that often mock you?

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90

88- Yes, I wrote books.

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91

89- No, I'm not Simon Cowell.

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92

you can cash in now, if you like.

That's okay. Was a movie made about you last year?

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93

92- No, I'm not Capote.

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94

Were you born in Algeria?

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95

Hmm, do you judge such performances, and have a receding hairline?

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96

(True confession: I had to look up Simon Cowell.)

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97

94- No, I'm not Camus.

95 stumps me.

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98

Were you both a consul and a dictator?

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99

You're not Clive Anderson.

Did you write your best-known works in a language other than your native one?

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100

You're not Clive Anderson.

The letter isn't A, SB.

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101

98- Castro?

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102

Whoops! It has to be last names? I suck.

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103

Did you write children's books?

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104

Are you an adorable orphan?

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105

I probably didn't make clear that the last name of the person you think of for first order questions should be the same as the letter the answerer gives you.

I would commence the disemboweling but I don't have a willing second to finish the job.

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106

103- That's first order, right? No, I'm not Lewis Carroll.

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107

Were you exceptionally tall for your era?

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108

104- Er? Can't think.

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109

107- Er...

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110

Ha HA! You're not David Copperfield, then.

2nd order: Were you alive in the 20th century?

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111

110- No, I was not alive in the 20th century.

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112

Did you write a primer for making sweet sweet rhetorical love?

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113

106 - yeah, that was first order and it was Carroll.

First order: were you a 14th-century author?

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114

112- I don't know.

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115

Oh and 101, looks like I stumped you; I was thinking of Cincinnatus. So I get to ask a 2nd-order question! Here goes: Were the books you wrote per 90 works of fiction?

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116

Was Chaucer 14th century?

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117

(Come on, Castro was never consul!)

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118

Ok, so you're not Andreas Capellanus.

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119

New 1st-order: Were you old and in the way?

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120

I'm not Chaucer, if so. I was guessing on Castro.

115- I believe I wrote fiction, among other things.

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121

First-order: Were you a founder of the Romantic movement?

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122

119- Thinking of people known for oldness... ??? Nope.

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123

121- I'm not Coleridge. Or Constable, for that matter.

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124

2nd order: Were your better-known books published in the nineteenth century?

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125

124 -No, not originally published in the 19th century.

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126

Did you ever have a beer named after you?

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127

126- Did Castro have a beer named after him? I don't know.

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128

I think I'm just going to say Castro for everything, and let you argue with me. Ha!

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129

Did your books seem to go against the spirit of the times, certainly in your own country?

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130

109: Then you're not Charlemagne.

2nd order: were you British?

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131

1st order: Did you write a biography of Kant?

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132

127- I don't know either. "Castro Beer" got quite a lot of hits on google, but I didn't find any evidence of an actual beer.

I was thinking of Billy Carter.

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133

129- I'm not Aleister Crowley.

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130- Yes, I'm British.

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135

Are you best know because of a translator/interpreter in English?

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136

Are you best know as the English interpreter/translator of another?

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137

122 -- I guess you must not be Vassar Clements. Were you a politician?

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136- No, I'm not Cabrera Infante?

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139

122- No, I was not a politician.

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140

132- You get a second order, I believe.

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141

Are you going to answer 131?

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142

Oh, sorry. I don't know. You get a second order.

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143

Ok, you're not Ernst Cassirer.

To recap, you're a dead British man who wrote both fiction and nonfiction books that were originally published before 1800.

2nd order question: were you considered a scientist in your time?

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143- No, I'm not a scientist.

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145

You are recapping correctly, but while I'd say I'm known for my writing, it's not for something I'd normally refer to as fiction or non-fiction.

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146

I've got to get offline now, so someone else will have to solve the mystery.

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147

And I have to go out and get lunch but will be back in half an hour or so.

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148

You can all speculate while I'm gone, of course.

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149

When you get back -- were you rolled in a carpet?

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150

Do you have Prince Albert in a can?

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151

No, but I have 12 pound balls.

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152

Hey 'Postropher, did you know you're close to the top of the Google result set for "Do you have Prince Albert in a can?" That seems to me like something to be quietly proud of.

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153

I did not know that.

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154

Consider yourself informed. (You should have an entry in your referrals log to reflect it now.)

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155

2nd order question -- Did you write poetry?

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156

Were you a dramatist?

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Did Samuel Johnson write your biography?

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158

I'm back. And I did write poetry.

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149- No carpet-rolled persons coming to mind.

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160

ac.. im confused: were my 156 and 157 inadmissable?

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161

1st order -- were you ever world chess champion?

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159: given that you weren't Cleopatra, did you write in Modern English, or in some earlier variant?

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163

Dramatist--I'm not Chekov. (Not MAE version, I remind you.)

You've got me on the Johnson biography, though.

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164

Austro--I just had a woman come into my office demanding attention, sorry for the delay. Picture me at my computer hiding from ten million people knocking on my door.

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165

Yes, I wrote in Modern English.

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166

Sorry.. it wasnt meant to pressure.. i just was not sure about the degree of first oderness..

So do I get a 2nd order question?

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167

Yes, Austro, you do!

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168

Are you william congreve?

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169

Did you write a poem about a million slimy things?

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170

(or, at least, a poem that mentioned them?)

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171

I'm just painting a picture. I have actually had about twenty-seven conversations with people who are angry with me while playing this game. One or two screamers in there. So this is far more pleasant.

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172

Um, no, I'm not William Congreve.

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173

shame.

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174

169 is your second order, LB? (Before I bold it.)

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175

169 is a first order. I spent my second order on the Modern English question.

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176

Did you have Prince Albert in the can?

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177

Is an area of London's Docklands eponymous with you?

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178

1st order: Did you collaborate in the writing of a famous hymn?

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179

176, meet 150.

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180

As far as I know, I did not write about a million slimy things and don't have a part of the Docklands named after me.

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181

Also first oder: Did you take opium for more than 40 years?

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182

180, you are mixing up first and second orders again I think.

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183

Oops. I mean, I don't know who you're talking about.

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184

Is that an 'I don't know' to my first order 169?

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181- No, I'm not Coleridge.

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186

Also first oder: Did Elisabeth Barret Browning write about your grave?

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187

Yes, it's an 'I don't know'.

(And I wasn't drinking at lunch, I swear.)

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188

So you aren't Coleridge ("a thousand thousand slimy things, lived on, and so did I...").

Did you write plays?

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189

181 - Actually.. i was not thinking of him. So are you stumped by the opium or not? i guess i remain at first level

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190

I don't know whose grave Barret Browning wrote about, so that's two 2nd orders for you, Austro.

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191

did you forget #161? (1st order)

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192

In re the Opium: Are you George Crabbe?

In re the EBB: could you be William Cowper?

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193

Don't know a chess champion with C. So you guys should fire ahead on the 2nds.

I don't think I wrote any plays, or at least, that's not what I'm known for. But I wrote a few different kinds of things, so maybe there's a play in there.

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194

179, read more closely.

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195

I'm going to count both of Austro's as 2nd orders. No, I'm not Crabbe or Cowper.

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196

yes, they were the two seconds owing. Oh dear. Seem to be barking up the wrong period! :)

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193: So, I guess you are not Jose Capablanca.

2nd order -- Did you live in the 18th century?

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198

Was my first too easy and my second too hard?

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199

Yes, I lived in the 18th century.

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200

Not at all.. this is fun!

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201

Would i be likely to confuse you with a travel agents?

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202

194, are you trying to dig at my choice of article? Because I will maintain that the error in 150 is the form preferred by juvenile prank callers across the country. Google returns 800 hits for the indefinite-article form, only 100 hits for the definite-article form. And the 'Postropher post which I mentioned in 152, uses the indefinite article.

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203

Are you breaking my heart, and shaking my confidence daily?

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204

201- No, I'm not Thomas Cook? (That's what they're called, right?)

203- No, I'm not Cecilia.

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205

1st order -- did you sex Sand?

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205- No, I'm not Chopin.

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207

Right, ac, thats what they're called.

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208

Do you explain it all?

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209

Mind you, he was a Cooke.

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210

Ooh, have a feeling I know what you're referring to slo, but can't think of it.

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211

1st order -- did you direct Beauty and the Beast?

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212

211- No, not Cocteau.

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213

Well, I was asking if you're Clarissa.

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214

Were you based in Bristol and did you write an epistle to Reynolds?

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I know to whom slol refers!

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216

Well, goody for you, Ben.

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217

I'll tell you, I'm having trouble answering Austro's question.

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218

1str order -- Did you play Norton?

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202--No, I was suggesting that my comment was a deliberate play on your earlier comment, wherein my change of the tense of the question and to the definite article altered the meaning of the phrase.

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220

218- Don't know.

214- I'm assuming I don't know. But although it's a first order I'll tell you've got the birthplace.

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221

Oh, Sorry.

Umm I was aiming for William Combe.

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222

And if you're not William Combe, did you die in mysterious circumstances?

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223

219 -- ok, you lost me now. I got no idea what's going on anymore.

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224

I don't think my death was actually mysterious to anyone, but if it had happened nearer our time would have been investigated by the police or there would have been some kind of inquest.

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225

Is there a painting of you in the Tate by Henry Wallis?

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220: So you're not Art Carney.

2nd order -- Are you Thomas Chatterton?

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227

Damn.. that was meant as a first order!..so 225 is by way of going round again!

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228

Grrr.. and i gave it away :)

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Yes, I'm Chatterton!

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Nice one, ac. That was fun.

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That is, Yes, I'm Chatterton.

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232

The Wallis.

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So with that, I'm off to bed.

Thanks for the game, ac.

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234

223--

You were asking AC if she had either a)a tinned tobacco product in her posession or b) a member of the royal family locked in the bathroom.

I wasking ac if she'd ever fucked said royal family member in the butt. I'm sophisticated, see.

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234 -- got it, ok. A curious purple light is dawning on the horizon.

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Looking back, I wonder why on earth I thought of Combe before Chatterton. That thing with Bristol was a pure fluke!

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I did not sex Mutombo, or Prince Philip. Or Chatterton.

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238

Sexing Chatterton could have been severly detrimental too your health!

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239

Severely, even.

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hey, i won!

thanks, ac!

that was fun!

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241

Did he definitely have a disease, or is that speculation?

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You're welcome. In two senses.

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I was going to say -- a triumphant entry into commenting here, peep.

(And seasonally appropriate, too! I never knew marshmallow chicks could type.)

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244

When I read about him, there was "evidence" (I dont know what that might be) to suggest that his symptoms of starvation were aggravated by gonorrhoea.

So I guess it is speculation. The arsenic made it academic though, huh?

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Peep, the swing from Art Carney to Chatterton was inspired: Well played, and welcome!

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246

Thanks! It was pure improvisation. I was just trying to stump ac.

I didn't think I knew of any other 18th century English poets that started with a C -- but then I remembered Chatterton.

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Yeah, I was taking pot shots with the first order questions at the 18th Century poets i'd read all those years ago. It never occurred to me to take a blind route to them. I like the tactic. Cool. Once more. Well played.

AC: You should do this more often, if you have the time.

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I'm glad y'all liked it, after my too easy first attempt, and temporary post-lunch befuddlement.

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249

I didn't play the second game, but despite the happy post game afterglow here I wonder if we shouldn't clarify, for future Botticelli's, who's a good mystery person, because I don't know this Chatterton fellow and wouldn't have been able to guess. If I'm a tiny minority, that's okay, but if I'm not, I think it's usually better to pick someone you're pretty confident a large minority of your questioners would know.

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250

To fess up, I only sort of know who he is -- that is, the name rang a bell as '18th C British writer', but I don't know a blessed thing beyond that, and wouldn't have had a hope of guessing it. I don't think it was too hard, though -- it's supposed to be a stretch.

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Hm. The way I play it's not supposed to be. I got totally annoyed with an exboyfriend once and I got all the way to ancient Greek rhetoritician starting with "D" and I was like, who the hell are you talking about? I don't know any Greek rhetoriticians. And it turned out to be Demosthenes, but I wouldn't have had any way of getting to that.

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252

At least Austro loves me.

Chatterton's poetry might be obscure, but that painting of him is quite famous.

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253

Yeah, I'd say Demosthenes is absolutely okay. Once you start worrying about keeping it too narrow, you take all the fun out of it. And we've got enough overeducated weirdos here that someone will know everything.

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254

Well, alright, I mean, whoever's running the game can pick the rules they want, but I guess I'd want to know the understanding we were operating under. I suppose it's different when getting to the answer is a large cooperative effort--maybe having your small part in it is gratification enough, but I think I still might want to know I had a chance at getting it if I played. So whoever's the answerer can just say the rules they're playing with at the outset. Certainly Demosthenes was not okay for my ex boyfriend to pick, because he knew I wouldn't have known ancient Greek people, since he made a point of picking classics stuff to stump me with when I was answerer.

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Both T & C have kind of a gay martyrdom thing going, so I thought I was being too obvious.

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256

It's a matter of audience, though. Picking someone he knew you wouldn't know when it was just the two of you playing was bullshit. Picking someone because they're obscure enough that you hope no one playing will have heard of them is likewise bullshit (Max Mason, president of the University of Chicago in the late 20's, for example, would be a sucky choice.)

But Chatterton or Demosthenes are both people that a randomly educated person has a fair shot of knowing about, and if you're going to try to restrict it to people that you're really sure almost everyone knows, it gets very restrictive.

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257

I suggested "you'd guess 85% of the readers would know" in the first B thread. Anyway, answerers can do what they want, but I do think they should be transparent about what they're doing, in case people care about having strongly favorable odds of knowing the person. I mean, I care, so someone else might. It's just a matter of saying what you're about when you start.

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But see, I did my version of 85% of people would know, and got discovered very quickly.

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259

Yeah, I never would have guessed that people would have come up with Turing so quickly.

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Anna Freud took longer, and I think 85% of the people have heard of her.

People, people--do what you want; just make your rules clear; that's all the humble blogger wants.

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261

It seemed implicit that I was choosing someone harder the second time around, no? And to state it too much outright gives a big hint as to who it is, ruling lots of people out.

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I just mean for future games. All you have to do is say your general philosophy of the rules; it won't have to mean anything about who you're picking.

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263

I'm thinking of a person starting with O.

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264

Is he Iranian?

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265

Hrm, I'm stumped.

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266

That new shipment of clever was supposed to get here days ago. Sorry everyone.

Look over there, it's a baby walrus!

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267

omigod i used to have a very similar baby walrus when i was a kid except this was before beanie babies and it was much bigger probably i got it at seaworld and called it walry i was never very creative with stuffed animal names like the one that looked like a sponge i called woodstock i mean one time i walked into the kitchen while my mom was doing the dishes and said quiet and martyred why are you washing the dishes with woodstock that is so cute i should really be working on this fucking paper about the painted mule and the zebra and whether i have hands

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268

No Marcel, please continue.

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269

The experiment requires you to continue.

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270

Weiner -- what happened to all your capital letters?

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271

I don't know what the hell happened in 267 but I like it. More! More!

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272

There's no time to hit the shift key when you're caught up in the tidal bore of Cute.

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273

Weiner-style is the new Becks-style.

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274

Wein-of-consciousness: hott!

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275

Obviously you have hands -- how else are you going to paint the stripes on the mule?

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276

i rpresent the firm of becks urplw and weiner our cient ahas retained us for specil sekrito lpruposes we cannot reveal shushs!!

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277

And, oddly, while I still can't get over the concept of Adult Matt having a cat, I can totally picture Wee Matt caring for his stuffed animals.

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278

Matt? Wee? Ne'er!

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279

I could go for a Bud. Anybody else want a Bud?

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280

I want a new job, and a work ethic that would have let me get this piece of shit done when I should have, weeks ago, and a brain transplant to get rid of this headache. But not a Bud. I hate Bud.

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281

Last night I was drunk, and I wrote little poems about colors. Tonight I am stone cold sober and procrastinating as usual, and that unlocked the seam of what appears to be inspiration.

(and, 277, I had a lot that stayed on my bed. I called them my throng, because that's what Snoopy called all the birds clustered around him when he slept on his doghouse. I was way into Peanuts.)

(And the procrastination has not even been so severe tonight, as I have actually written several sentences of this alleged paper.)

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282

I could go for a Bud, but only if I'm helping set up a Standpipean witticism.

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283

Those are some wild Thursday nights in Lubbock, eh?

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284

281 - Did you get them to marry one another?

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285

I don't like Bud either, but something about Becks' comment had me craving the king of beers.

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286

I wasn't even that drunk.

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287

I just got 278. I'm slow tonight.

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288

I wasn't even that drunk.

I don't doubt it.

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289

Hey, I just came back from seeing Brick with ac and the woman behind us was talking about Ben Domenech. She said, very disdainfully, that he had gone to her college, though he didn't finish. She added helpfully that he was a total jackass.

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290

Hey, I just came back from seeing Inside Man with Ellen and I was worried at first that the couple behind us were going to be talkers. But they quieted down just a minute or so into the titles, before I even had the opportunity/obligation to fix them with a dirty look.

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291

(There was no blogospheric discussion overheard though.)

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292

I had a lot that stayed on my bed. [...] I was way into Peanuts.

Try to butch it up a little, Matt.

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293

Oh and BTW Tia: Inside Man went a little way toward winning me over to your view of sentimentality. There were a lot of moments in the film that I would describe as manipulative. But is was done in such a way that I felt no problem in giving my puppet strings over to the movie and letting it tug me around as it liked.

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294

Here are my brief notes on the film.

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295

256: people that a randomly educated person has a fair shot of knowing about

Well that "randomly educated" has me pinned to the board. My education was random, full of holes and one sided: British, in other words.

On that basis I think it fair to say that the a priori probability of the frat haus being able to solve Turing is not far removed from that of being able to solve Chatterton. There are large sections of the populace would have a hard time with, sa,y Husserl. A pound will get you a penny that ain't so here.

Happy Saturday, people.

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