Re: And you thought I had given up

1

Did you always wear hats?

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2

mmm...shoot. uh. I don't know.

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3

Dead or Alive?

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4

The lore of this blog requires that you be Franz Fanon.

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5

dead

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6

(Hey, you're supposed to tell me who you were thinking of)

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7

Do you like to dress up in undergarments intended for the opposite sex?

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8

I'm sorry to point this out, but Botticelli was a favorite of that high school teacher who so throroughly disgusted you. At least I remember him spending multiple classes on it, for reasons I don't remember.

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9

Oh I see -- I did not completely understand the rules. Disregard my 7 as a not-well-formed first order question.

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10

TMK: Okay, I can't think of any F person for that. eb, I remember. I don't have to hate everything associated with him. Hating him is enough.

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11

Were you killed by a trusted associate?

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12

wait, what? 7 was fine.

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13

Did you meet lots of famous science fiction writers in your job in publishing?

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14

Ack -- no -- still not got this figured out. Carry on! I'll get it sooner or later.

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15

(Oh, it's not fine if your person doesn't begin with F. Obviously I can give you Ed Wood and Eddie Izzard for starters.)

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16

15 -- exactly. This is the part that I wasn't fully grokking.

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17

Rules-clarifying question: The version of this game that I once played stipulated that all first-order questions must have as a possible answer someone who matches all the ascertained info about the mystery person at the time the question is asked. E.g., as of comment 5 in this thread, I can only ask questions where I can think of a dead person whose name begins with F as a possible answer to my question. Is this rule in effect here?

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18

Do your parents think you're on drugs?

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19

Oh, I wasn't asking you to hate Botticelli, but I thought I'd mention it since I wasn't sure he kept "assigning" it. However, it requires an attention span I lack.

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20

13: No I'm not Gary Farber.

11: I guess I dunno.

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21

17: That rule is not in effect, though it sounds like an interesting variation and maybe a good idea for future games.

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22

OK: Did you fight in Sicily?

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23

Did you star in War and Peace?

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24

20: My 11 was also not-well-formed. But 22, that's the reel deel.

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25

22: Is that a second order question? No.

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25: see 24.

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27

23: Google temptation...so strong. But I dunno.

Okay I see. I dunno to 22 as well.

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28

Are you buried in Rockville, MD?

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29

27: Yay! I was thinking of Giuseppe Fanelli. 1st order q: Are you a man or a woman?

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30

27- So you're not Mel Ferrer. Are you a man?

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31

Can I get another yes/no question?

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32

Hey ac asked the same 1st-order as I. I call do-overs!

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33

29: I'm a woman.

28: I dunno.

(MAE's variation might be good here because there are multiple questioners. Noted for future games.)

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34

Are you in a band with someone with the same first name?

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35

New first order for ac!

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36

d'oh, I mean second order!

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37

Are you American?

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38

37: no

34: I dunno.

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39

Are you based in Northern California and have a millionaire husband?

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40

So you're not John Flansburgh. Did you write books?

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41

(The first question that came to mind was "Do you live in subsidized housing?" Must remember the distinction between my job and Unfogged. Gets so mixed up sometimes.)

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42

So you're not F. Scott Fitzgerald. Were you alive in the 20th century?

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43

39: No I'm not Heidi Fleiss? I'm not sure if that works. Google might also be useful for arbitration.

42: yes

40: no

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44

Did you fight in Manila?

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45

44: mmm...dunno.

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46

Ok, I'll play a bit. First order: Have people speculated that you were Richard Henry Lee or Melanchton Smith?

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47

46: Ack, I dunno. Heidi Fleiss doesn't work for Jackmormon's, by the way, so she gets a second order.

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48

I just googled Fleiss; not only was she working out of Hollywood, she doesn't seem to be married. I was thinking of Diane Feinstein.

So....Were you in movies?

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49

48: no

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50

Ok, so you're not the Federal Farmer. I'll ask second order after I figure out what has already been asked.

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51

Review of facts thus far: Dead woman, alive in the twentieth century, didn't write books, not in movies, not American

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52

New 1st order question: did you spend your childhood in the South but move out to the Bay Area (attending El Cerrito High School!!1!!) before becoming a famous musician?

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53

45 -- Then you're not Joe Frazier. Were you a painter?

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54

I dunno, JM

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55

Did you fight in Canada?

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56

Were you in politics?

Also, I am now convinced I lived in the same town as jm for a while.

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57

OK, so you're not John Fogerty.

2nd order: were you from Europe?

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58

1st order: Are you part of a theatrical family, an actor with two brothers who also act?

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59

57: yes. 56: no.

55: It seems like I should be able to come up with one person whose name started with F who fought in Canada, but I dunno.

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60

Were you the part-Chilean mistress of royalty?

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61

female?

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62

58: wild guess: no I'm not Errol Flynn?

60: I dunno.

61: Is that a second order question? It's been answered, and you didn't ask a 1st order.

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63

59: so you're not Theodore Frelinghuysen. I will hold off asking a 2nd order until you answer my 53.

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64

oops, sorry, no I wasn't a painter

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65

Then you're not Lady Furness. Are you from the Americas?

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66

Were you an athlete?

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67

Ben she already said she was from Europe.

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68

1st: Did you have a film made about you by Jane Campion?

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69

65: Ben, it's already been established that I'm European. Since IANALB, I will grant you another question.

66: No.

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70

Did you work for Fred Quimby?

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71

Oh, I misread the order of answers, and thought you said you weren't European. Are you from western Europe?

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72

Did you work with someone named Wilkins?

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73

70: Is that Ramona Quimby's dad? Fuck. Henry? I can't remember his last name, but that's my guess.

68: I dunno.

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74

71: Can you define Western Europe for me roughly?

72: I dunno.

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75

So you're not Rosalind Franklin. Did you die young?

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76

73: So are you saying "I dunno" in response to 70?

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77

58- Errol Flynn had no acting brothers that I know of. But perhaps that can be googled. I was thinking of Colin Firth.

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78

75: No.

76: Well, if Henry's wrong, then I'm saying I dunno.

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79

Are you a man who went by generalissimo in his lifetime?

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80

France, Portugal, Spain, England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland if you think of them as part of Europe, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Italy, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Monaco. This deviates from the UN definition, apparently, but oh well.

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81

77: I was just guessing. Ask yer question. This totally needs to be harder for you guys though.

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82

80: I'm perhaps disproving my earlier assertion that IANALB, but I realized I also need you to define "from."

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83

Are you a theorist who, it is rumored, caught HIV in a San Francisco bathhouse?

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84

78: Ah, then you must not be Friz Freleng.

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85

I just killed a rat with a phone book. But that's nothing to do with the game.

So you're not Janet Frame. Did you have famous relatives?

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86

83: no I'm not Foucault?

79: No I'm not Franco? That's a guess, but I figure maybe he was Italophilic or something.

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87

85: Yes

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88

Are you a child star born in Utica?

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89

2nd order: Did you live in Paris?

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90

Was your father a famous psychiatrist?

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91

90: yes.

89: I don't think so, but Anthony's solved it anyway.

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92

Props to Anthony! Someone get this man a fruitbasket.

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93

Are you a comic actor who's moved into writing novels?

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94

And 1st order from my 84 -- were you famous by virtue of being married to a famous man?

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95

Are you Anna Freud?

And while rat-slaying too!

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96

But did a first order question lead to 90?

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97

You were serious about the rat? Where are you commenting from, the gulag?

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98

Bravo, Anthony. Now who's got the fruit basket?

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99

This is a game or rules, not men.

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100

"of rules"

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101

Oops, you're right, eb, he cheated! I got confused. No fruitbasket for Anthony!

OTOH, he knew anyway.

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102

Famous familes with F at 85. Thanks for the fruitbasket.

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103

OTOH, he knew anyway.

Once Anne Frank was out (didn't die young) and central European origin was established (what's W Europe?) not too many choices were left.

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104

How did I cheat? Did I miss a 1st order?

I'm in Sulawesi. Plenty of rats here.

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105

Well, I wouldn't say cheat, since rules can vary, but you only get one second order question for each first order.

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106

Hey, 90 was a 1st order - or aren't you allowed to ask them if they might be right?

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107

It's okay, Anthony, you can have a fruitbasket anyway.

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108

Cool. Pretty pathetic rat, though, if it couldn't stand up to a mere phone book.

Probably plague-ridden.

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109

It occurs to me that I'm coming off as being like SALB here.

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110

Oh, I thought 90 was 2nd order. I think all questions designed to suss out the answer should be 2nd order, though this was not explicit in the rules.

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111

108: nonsense, our battle was the stuff of epics. It was only the Manado phone book too, so I had to do most of the work.

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112

106: Oh, I see. I don't know the rules in that case. I think Tia would be allowed to shut down a follow-up by knowing you were talking about Anna Freud without letting on that the same question would have a different answer as a second-order.

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113

112 -- not the way I've played in the past. The potential for confusion is too great.

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114

Confusing = fun!

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115

It's just the potential for playing for six hours, and at the end finding yourself whining "But you said you weren't Anna Freud ages ago!" Tends to lead to petty bickering and and annoyance.

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116

But as long as you keep first and second order straight there shouldn't be a problem. Unlike other electronic Botticelli machines, Unfogged can generate a paper trail.

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117

I forget, can you be thinking of a fictional character, or is the point of Botticelli that it's a real person?

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118

Like, say, Botticelli.

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119

You can pick a fictional character.

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120

As I've played, any person, real or fictional.

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121

I ask because I kept thinking of Francesca Fiore throughout the thread.

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122

So if I've got this straight, if a 2nd order gives you an idea about who it is, you have to then ask an unrelated 1st order, so that you can ask another 2nd order.

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123

So if I've got this straight, if a 2nd order gives you an idea about who it is, you have to then ask an unrelated 1st order, so that you can ask another 2nd order.

But why? That's just stupid.

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124

Bruno! Why you always kill, kill, kill all the time, time, time?

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125

See, this is why I think the answerer should just answer all 1st orders without letting on if any could be revealing 2nd order questions.

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126

Well, that's why I'm asking. Trying to learn if my impulse to blurt out Anna Freud at inopportune moments will get me into trouble. Again.

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127

123: Them's the rules.

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128

But what if I had asked "Was your father a famous psychiatrist?" completely innocently? Is Tia supposed to think of another suitable F and say "no, I'm not Amma Frevd" or something? Or say she doesn't know?

It is all very confusing.

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129

128 was me, surprisingly.

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130

I am also confused by this game.

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131

No, no, alligator! Don't eat Francesca Fiore! What, you think is good? Is bad! Ah!

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132

Here's what I say. Next time, we play by MAE's variation in 17, since that will make it harder for our questioners. Since the further it gets narrowed the harder it is not to ask a first order question that would describe the mystery person, should the questioner ask, innocently or no, about Anna Freud, the answerer should just concede that's who she is.

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133

Well, at least it's not just me.

Now all the roosters are letting me know the sun will nearly be up, and I must stop pretending to work and instead get some sleep.

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134

128 makes a good point.

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135

Oh, there wasn't even an alligator at all; it was a car chase!

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136

134: That's what I was hoping 112 could solve. But 132 works too.

I just wanted to write a comment with lots of comment numbers. 108: 104 116.

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137

For some reason 112 leaves me perplexed.

Cock-a-doodle-doo!

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138

You say, "no I'm not Anna Freud" and that's taken to mean "I guessed you were thinking of Anna Freud" for first order purposes. Nothing said in response to a first order question should be taken to have any relevancy whatsoever to the second order question. So yes, I'm Anna Freud is still valid at the second order level.

I've never played this in a way that "No, I'm not X" for a first order answer has meant you can't later guess X at the second order. But I've also never played for 6 hours.

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139

I'm sorry, I think I've ruined everyone's fun.

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140

eb, you've ruined no one's fun.

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141

Not SB's and mine.

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142

Well, I've partially ruined my own. This reminds me too much of how I used to enjoy capture the flag until every game seemed to turn into a dispute over the rules.

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143

Your F.F. quotage made my day, ac. Thank you.

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144

Is nothing.

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145

You say, "no I'm not Anna Freud" and that's taken to mean "I guessed you were thinking of Anna Freud" for first order purposes. Nothing said in response to a first order question should be taken to have any relevancy whatsoever to the second order question.

In that case shouldn't the formula be "I guess you were thinking of Anna Freud" and not "I'm not Anna Freud", since the successful guess is all that matters?

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146

Well, yeah, I vaguely remember playing this without giving the "I am/I am not" type of response for the 1st order questions.

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147

I call shenanigans on 40 anyway.

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148

I'm sure they weren't 'books' as such.

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