I know why they say that androgen is a male hormone--consider the name--because of it's effects on development (as here), and usual incidence between the sexes, but isn't calling such in this case a contradiction in terms?
They must have a reason for calling it that, although I read the article as saying the hyena's vagina is turned inside out. They may call it clitoris because it is sensitive all around, making it even more penis-like.
"Androgen" is the term for any of a class of hormones (not just a single chemical) that affect the development and activity of male sex characteristics (in mammals, at least- not sure about other vertebrates). Technically, I think you can refer to "male sex hormones" and biologists would get the same meaning. It is a little silly, though, as they both work to some degree no matter who you are.
And more to the point, are generated here in hyenas, and probably also in other mammals, by female bodies too, although not usually in the same amounts. Nothing essential about it, in other words.
Exactly- it's all old biology/medical terminology, which is still terribly retrograde in some areas- a decent number of conditions that result in perfectly normal human beings are still technically considered "disorders." There's about twenty years worth of fights right there for you.
I'm still with Ben on this. I'm no biologist, but can a clitoris really be something that's entered? Is that pretty much a vagina? The terminology seems a little off.
On the other hand:
"Males need practice. After a couple of months of practicing, they get it lined up just right."
stephen jay gould wrote a nice article on hyenas & the evolutionary selection in that species for female dominance, and the "penises" sported by alpha females.
Gould, "Hyena Myths and Realities," Natural History 90 (1981): 16-24.
no, it really is the hyena's clitoris. hyenas just happen to have the birth canal within the clitoris. (even in human women, the part of the clitoris *within* the woman's body is nine inches long - sexual structures are not quite the way we're led to picture them). that's sexual variation between species, as gould explains.
(he also explains that the vaginal labia in embryos -- because all embryos are originally female in structure -- become the *testical sack* in male fetuses once the streams of testosterone that alter fetus sex start flowing in...!)
I always thought the way humans give birth was an excellent example of unintelligent design (unless God is a misogynist), but the hyena way of giving birth sounds even more unpleasant.
Enter her clitoris?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 12:40 PM
Dammit, I thought I was posting this to my site. Then I realized I was here, and went to delete it, and Wolfson had already posted a comment.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 12:41 PM
I know why they say that androgen is a male hormone--consider the name--because of it's effects on development (as here), and usual incidence between the sexes, but isn't calling such in this case a contradiction in terms?
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 12:47 PM
Got so much clit, she don't need balls.
Posted by Chopper | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 12:55 PM
They must have a reason for calling it that, although I read the article as saying the hyena's vagina is turned inside out. They may call it clitoris because it is sensitive all around, making it even more penis-like.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 12:57 PM
I hate to think what further studies on the organic chemistry of pregnancy will do to the abortion-debate artificial-womb hypothetical.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 12:58 PM
IDP-
"Androgen" is the term for any of a class of hormones (not just a single chemical) that affect the development and activity of male sex characteristics (in mammals, at least- not sure about other vertebrates). Technically, I think you can refer to "male sex hormones" and biologists would get the same meaning. It is a little silly, though, as they both work to some degree no matter who you are.
Posted by Moleman | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 1:06 PM
And more to the point, are generated here in hyenas, and probably also in other mammals, by female bodies too, although not usually in the same amounts. Nothing essential about it, in other words.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 1:09 PM
Exactly- it's all old biology/medical terminology, which is still terribly retrograde in some areas- a decent number of conditions that result in perfectly normal human beings are still technically considered "disorders." There's about twenty years worth of fights right there for you.
Posted by Moleman | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 1:16 PM
I'm still with Ben on this. I'm no biologist, but can a clitoris really be something that's entered? Is that pretty much a vagina? The terminology seems a little off.
On the other hand:
"Males need practice. After a couple of months of practicing, they get it lined up just right."
Am I right, ladies?
Posted by mrh | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 1:32 PM
stephen jay gould wrote a nice article on hyenas & the evolutionary selection in that species for female dominance, and the "penises" sported by alpha females.
Gould, "Hyena Myths and Realities," Natural History 90 (1981): 16-24.
Posted by mmf! | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 1:38 PM
no, it really is the hyena's clitoris. hyenas just happen to have the birth canal within the clitoris. (even in human women, the part of the clitoris *within* the woman's body is nine inches long - sexual structures are not quite the way we're led to picture them). that's sexual variation between species, as gould explains.
(he also explains that the vaginal labia in embryos -- because all embryos are originally female in structure -- become the *testical sack* in male fetuses once the streams of testosterone that alter fetus sex start flowing in...!)
Posted by mmf! | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 1:44 PM
BEN WOLFSON : please contact me directly, I've secured lodgings for you but there are details to be finalized ASAP.
Posted by Mr. B | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 1:55 PM
Although giving birth through a 'penis' isn't a trivial problem."
But consider how many arguments it would suddenly render winnable.
Posted by tom | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 1:56 PM
My understanding is that giving birth through the traditional organ isn't a trivial experience either.
Posted by Wehttam Saiselgy | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 2:18 PM
Is this a form vs. function problem?
Posted by Central Content Provider | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 2:19 PM
You and me ain't nothing but mammals, but let's not do it like they do on the Discovery Channel.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 3:00 PM
Kate Holekamp?
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 3:13 PM
Aren't most of the sex organs analogs of one another? Clitoris = glans, vagina = penis, labia = scrotum, etc.?
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 4:12 PM
Actually, it's more like clitoris = penis.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 4:47 PM
I think clitoris=penis, but vagina=the tube-like aspect (and secretory glands) of the penis.
In other words, male animals have a hyena-type clitoris, but don't give birth through it.
Posted by Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 5:01 PM
13: I'm dying to know the relationship between boarding Wolfson and the variety of sex organs. Perhaps?
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 5:12 PM
I'm polymorphously perverse.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 5:38 PM
I'm Sagittarius.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 5:50 PM
boarding Wolfson
All abooooard!
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 6:00 PM
I always thought the way humans give birth was an excellent example of unintelligent design (unless God is a misogynist), but the hyena way of giving birth sounds even more unpleasant.
Posted by Frederick | Link to this comment | 04-26-06 7:50 PM