Re: On Record

1

I saw Simon Cowell on the Today show this morning and he said Tyler was, at a minimum, guaranteed to be in the top 2.

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That's totally true, except that his name is Taylor. I've held back from saying he'll win until now because the show is so obviously boosting Chris, and because I couldn't be sure my fandom was obscuring my view of reality. But at this point I'd put money on him winning.

Yay, America!

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3

Who? The next what?

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4

Trevor woo hook 'em!

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5

Gah, I knew his name was Taylor. I swear I left my brain at home today.

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6

It's great, because I like my American Idol to constantly shimmy for the cheap seats and mug like a perfect asshole.

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7

And I meant to say "wasn't obscuring." I save up all my brainpower to shore up my awesome Idol prediction powers.

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8

Taylor Hicks is totally gay.

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9

Better that than screaming into the camera with his dead, black eyes: "Tell me, have you ever really really ever loved a woman? Because if not, I'll gnaw out your liver." And better still than imagining yourself as a Mariahlike diva, while cleavage and melisma are the only things that distract the masses from your utter inability sing on-key in your upper register.

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10

9 to 6.

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11

It's great, because I like my American Idol to constantly shimmy for the cheap seats and mug like a perfect asshole.

As a hater of all things American Idol, that comment warms my heart.

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12

But that comment didn't come from an AI hater. It came from an AI lover who's bitter that America doesn't share his elitist, latte sipping Chris and Kat fandom.

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13

Yeah, but I'll take what I can get. Thank God I have no idea who Chris and Kat are.

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14

I've only caught the show twice, but Katharine didn't stay on pitch on either of them. And it's wasn't the high parts, either, and my ear is several years out of tune. She's pretty, but I thought it was supposed to be a singing competition.

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15

14: Not that it changes anything, but the most marketable voice does not always equal the best voice.

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16

I actually have $10 riding on Elliot, from almost 3 months ago, before it became so obvious that he can't dance.

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17

It's not really a singing competion; it's a performing competition/popularity contest. Nevertheless, Katharine's pitch problems are serious and frequent enough that lookin' purty is not going to save her in the end.

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18

Your mom. That goes for everyone.

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19

(Further, it's a popularity contest whose results are heavily manipulated by the producers in an effort to control the image of the show, though I think, try as they might, they just can't stop Taylor.)

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20

And why the hate on lattes? Lattes are tasty damnit.

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21

It is pretty heavily manipulated. Doesn't it always seem that someone has a 'moment' just when they need it?

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22

(Further, it's a popularity contest whose results are heavily manipulated by the producers in an effort to control the image of the show, though I think, try as they might, they just can't stop Taylor.)

What makes you think they aren't manipulating things to make it seem as if he's going to win despite their manipulations?

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23

Ben just blew my mind.

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24

Ben just blew me.

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25

Because I think they think he is unmarketable; he doesn't seem to them like an a good ambassador for the show, because he's not current.

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26

25 to 22. I don't know why Ben blew Apo.

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27

I'm trying to butch it up.

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28

I don't know why Ben blew Apo.

Sure you do.

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29

Ben, in my experience blowing Apo doesn't really up your butch cred. You'd be way better off buggering him, like the rest of us do.

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30

in my experience

!!

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31

I guess the secret's out now. Getting blown by B totally ups your butch cred, FWIW.

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32

Yes, because I am the ne plus ultra of femininity, don'tcha know.

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33

Jesus, have you Magnetic Fields fans heard about this ridiculousness?

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34

Joe, the thing you have to remember about that is that SF/J (or S/FJ or whatever) is a silly git.

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35

I know, I know, but dude.

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36

I will admit that I keep a closer eye on people who loudly declare that they don't like any hip hop. Lambasting publicly them as racists, however, is a special kind of obnoxious.

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37

I think that much about a person's racism, or lack thereof, can be gleaned from their favorite American Idol contestant. Have I mentioned how much I miss Paris Bennett?

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38

But J/M, Merritt even said he likes early hip hop.

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39

Wow, what a weird article. So noting that some hip-hop plays into several racist stereotypes is racist? Well, okay then, but I've heard that criticism from a black newspaper columnist.

I'm not much of a hip-hop fan for the same reason I'm not a country/western fan or a folk music fan. It's the audial equivalent of playing dress-up.

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40

Liking two years of early hip hop is better than nothing.

A categorical refusal to listen to hip hop is, to me, just a little suspect. Maybe you get away with it if you're over 40 and can claim the "you young people listen to noise and get off my lawn!" excuse.

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41

Or, you're ensconsed in your own musical world. I know a lot of young theater folk who listen to nothing but show tunes. These people are in their twenties.

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42

They're very young and very old hat. Everybody has to go through stages like that.

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43

Tia hates black people.

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44

I mean, will the real Slim Shady please stand up?

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45

Oh, wait.

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46

I'm not much of a hip-hop fan for the same reason I'm not a country/western fan or a folk music fan. It's the audial equivalent of playing dress-up.

???

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47

I wasn't going to touch that one either.

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48

Only rock music will be played under the restored Calaphate!

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49

It's the audial equivalent of playing dress-up.

That's why I only listen to nature sounds and radio static.

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50

I think Cala means listening to those genres would be like assuming inauthentic identity.

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51

I knew a guy who was actually a space alien. He had space-alien thoughts: that's how I knew. Once tried to argue at length that jazz wasn't music because "they're just making it up". He was wearing that green sweater he always wore. I think it reminded him of space.

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52

Cala can avoid the authenticity problem by listening to underground hip-hop, or as I like to call it, "hip-hop for pretentious white people."

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53

I don't mean much except that I like smidgens of most music, but getting into country-western or hip-hop or folk music would feel very inauthentic to me because it's not something I run across every day. What do I know about cowboy boots or chasing horses or growing up black or faerie-round-the-fey renaissance festival?

There's something weird about me, about as boring as possible, mooning about where all the cowboys have gone, is all I'm saying.

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54

53: That would make more sense if you were saying you didn't perform that music.

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55

Does that mean I'm stuck with hymns? Fuck, that really sucks.

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56

No, I think Cala's right; there is potentially something weird about getting seriously involved in listening to music that comes from a very different social milieu than your own. There's something, I don't know, exploitative about taking elements of someone else's identity and grafting them onto your own. Not that you can't listen to exotic music in a casual way, it's just when you get sort of obsessed with it that the problems start.

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57

when you get sort of obsessed with it that the problems start

But that statement holds true no matter what we're talking about, right? I mean, why doesn't that logic hold for Bach or Dostoevsky? 18c Austria and 19c Russia are both pretty far removed from my social milieu, but nobody would consider it dress-up to be deeply into one or the other.

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58

I'd be stuck with Gregorian chants and bubblegum pop.

What teofilo says in 56. I would feel uncomfortable identifying myself as a fan of something so far outside my background that it's like I think subcultures are something you just buy and put in your iPod.

(I should probably point out I'm not a serious music fan, and I listen to whatever I run across, not really identifying as a fan of any genre.)

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59

exotic music

Double plus what?

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60

I had to stop singing Bach because Lutherans didn't appreciate my getting all up in that bitch.

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61

18c Austria and 19c Russia are both pretty far removed from my social milieu, but nobody would consider it dress-up to be deeply into one or the other.

Actually, I think I would consider it dress-up to be deeply into those things, but you may be using a different value for "deeply."

(I should probably point out I'm not a serious music fan, and I listen to whatever I run across, not really identifying as a fan of any genre.)

Me too.

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62

Bridgeplate is my homeboy.

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63

I don't listen to music because musicians are outside of my social milieu.

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64

By "exotic music" I just mean music that comes from a different social context from your own. For Cala, hip-hop is exotic; for someone who grew up in the 'hood, it isn't (but, say, punk rock is).

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65

Dude, it's 18th-century Germany.

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66

There was no 18th-century Germany. How dare you impose your post-unification terms on the exotic, 18th century other?

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67

I think pop music's a different category, apo, because it's supposed to speak to your immediate experience in addition to being aesthetically enjoyable.

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68

That's kind of you, Jizzoe.

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69

Sacred music was supposed to speak to one's immediate experience. That hasn't prevented UNBELIEVERS from enjoying it.

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70

This conversation is full of all kinds of crazy.

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71

That's a good point, eb. Where did the Saxons and Prussians get off pretending to understand Bach's Thueringian mystery?

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72

No, but an unbeliever who dressed up as a monk because like, he got in touch with his spirtual side after hearing Handel's Messiah would be a bit weird.

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73

I just listened to one, and am currently listening to another, album made before I was born! I am so out of my milieu! And rockist, if I understand the term correctly.

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74

Bach's genius was to design his concertos to gather instantaneous must and irrelevancy as soon as bow touched string, thus making them available for everyone to enjoy.

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75

The thing about most rock is, if you haven't done heroin, you just don't know.

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76

I think Cala and I are talking about a level of identification with music that goes well beyond ordinary aesthetic appreciation, which may explain why people don't seem to be getting what we're saying.

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77

Dude, you're at, like, a whole other level!

Teach me to fly.

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78

65: Obviously, I'm not deeply into Bach.

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79

Inject me, Joe. I'm ready.

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80

hip-hop for pretentious white people

A couple of months ago, my roommate was teaching some kind of class* at the boys club in Harlem. Besides learning new ways to call people cracker, at one point one of his students said, "I bet you like Talib Kweli, Common, [I forget what else, there were at least two more]." And my roommate said, "how do you know?"
And his student said, "That's white people rap." True story.

*I really don't know what the class was, maybe partially SAT prep, but I don't think that was all, or even most of it.

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81

exotic music

The sitar is usually a dead giveaway.

No, but an unbeliever who dressed up as a monk because like, he got in touch with his spirtual side after hearing Handel's Messiah would be a bit weird.

That's because the Messiah isn't all that. And, St. Paul would like a word with you sans bat.

Bach's genius was to design his concertos to gather instantaneous must and irrelevancy

Sufjan, now Bach? Do you even like music?

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82

The thing about most rock is, if you haven't done heroin, you just don't know.

Dude, rock is made of cocaine.

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83

getting into country-western or hip-hop or folk music would feel very inauthentic to me because it's not something I run across every day

Could it just be that these genres don't particularly appeal to you? And therefore any attempt to get into them would be more of a conscious "In order to be a well-rounded person, I really ought to learn more about genre x," (which would indeed be inauthentic) than a heartfelt "Ooh! I like that! Where can I find more of that!"

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84

Inject me, Joe. I'm ready.

Tia, it's been my understanding that my script for our "doctor game" would remain private.

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85

74: I now understand the Taylor Hicks thing.

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86

Lost my background,
What'll I do?
Skip a milieu, my darlin'.

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87

75 helps me understand Taylor Hicks, too.

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88

I don't mean that everyone should only stay with the culture they have or grew up in when buying music. Because that's pretty retarded and impossible, to boot.

Just that there's something weird about a rich white kid so into hip-hop that he thinks he understands what it's like to grow up in the ghetto, or because he reads some manga and drinks green tea that he's a real otaku and understands the soul of the samurai, or if he's into 'Kabalah' and thinks you do it by wearing beads.

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89

Ok, but that's not about not liking music, that's just about not liking douchebags.

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90

I think Cala and I are talking about a level of identification with music that goes well beyond ordinary aesthetic appreciation

Oh, you mean wiggers.

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91

It's a gift that Bach was so clever, for he is now available for me to enjoy without posing! Though even if Bach had lacked this element of genius, we would perhaps be safe if we made sure to sell some indulgences every time we listened.

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92

Seriously, have you people never known middle-class white kids who get way, way, way into hip-hop and start dressing and acting like the rappers they listen to? That's the kind of identification I'm talking about. Country is trendy right now, so you get some of the same kind of behavior, but not to quite the same degree.

(On preview, what Cala said in 88.)

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93

Lu, lu,
skip a millieu
lu, lu
skip a millieu!

eb, that pwns, and it's now stuck in my head.

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94

that's not about not liking music, that's just about not liking douchebags.

Joe, I thought we agreed that the script for our "doctor game" would remain private.

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95

Yes, but 39 just says "fan".

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96

Get off my beads.

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97

I said liking, not licking.

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98

JM's "categorical refusal to listen to hip-hop arouses suspicion" is 1. not the same thing as "disliking hip-hop arouses suspicion" and 2. itself suspicious.

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99

95 posted before reading 93. I withdraw my nitpick.

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100

Part of the issue here could be that people who aren't that into music generally (like, say, me) tend to identify types of music more with the kinds of people who listen to them and less with the inherent aesthetic qualities of the music itself, whereas for people who really like music (like, say, everyone in this thread except me and Cala, apparently) it's the other way around.

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101

95: Fair enough. It comes across a lot stronger than I intended -- if I were to describe myself as a fan of a musical genre, I'd probably be using the word pretty strongly.

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102

middle-class white kids who get way, way, way into hip-hop and start dressing and acting like the rappers

Okay, maybe you have a point.

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103

Probably because I'm not into music much, lately.

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104

Country is trendy right now?

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105

This thread has totally blown my mental image of Cala as sporting serious dreadlocks.

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106

I hear the kids are into some fellow named Billy Ray Cyrus.

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107

"Wigger" is deprecated. May I suggest "Kornfeld" as a substitute?

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108

some fellow named Billy Ray Cyrus

Isn't he the harmonica-playing guy on American Idol?

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109

I probably am less into music than most on this thread; I just don't usually interpret fan, casually said, to be a very strong identification.

Also, the 7 May entry seems relevant.

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110

105: Ahem

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111

98: Whereas Wolfson is merely generally suspect.

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112

yeah, I rewrote that comment before I posted.. it was something more akin to 'strongly identify as a fan', not just 'listen to and enjoy music.'

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113

105: Fuck!

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114

You just feel the need to project scorn on Taylor, apo, because you know that as a non-SEX GOD you can't really identify with his music.

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115

I might be able to identify with his music, but it's hard for me to say since I've only watched one episode of AI and that was last season.

Just wasn't my milieu.

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116

You find him sexy-sexy? He's a sort of silvery teddybear.

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117

Lyle Lovett's blanket amnesty probably covers n00b country fans, too.

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118

I on the other hand, do not presume anything but the facts in evidence when adjudging myself utterly worthy of Taylor fandom.

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119

I would certainly rather sleep with Taylor than any other American Idol contestant.

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120

What about judges?

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121

Joe, you LB, some things are private!

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122

I'm never going to trust you again.

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123

Pardon?

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124

LB = little bastard perhaps?

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125

Linebacker. Drymala is the true renaissance man.

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126

Heh.

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127

You are a different kind of LB, LB.

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128

Tia, WMYBSALBA?

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129

18 Your mom. That goes for everyone.

Even ogged?

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130

Ogged's mom goes for everyone.

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131

Maybe you get away with it if you're over 40 and can claim the "you young people listen to noise and get off my lawn!" excuse.

Here's what those people listen to.

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132

>I think Cala's right; there is potentially something weird about getting seriously involved in listening to music that comes from a very different social milieu than your own.

I strongly disagree. Music is music. If you like hip-hop you should listen to hip-hop; if you like show tunes you should listen to show tunes. Plus, social milieu's don't produce music, people do.

Here is a stupid Slate article about Bob Marley.

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133

Dude, it's "milieux."

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134

I'm banning myself now.

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135

Ogged's mom has cancer, asshole.

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136

Uh, and this. Maybe it would be better to clock out for the day.

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137

135: No, you misread the post. (Not that I didn't do the same.) Ogged's mom is AFAIK fine.

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138

137: No, I was playing off that misreading, and, uh, Ogged's cancer. No worries, I'll ban myself on my way out.

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139

135 made me laugh out loud. So did the comment linked in 136.

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140

This is going to be the best in-joke ever, I can feel it.

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141

As in: "Is he dating anyone?"

"Not for awhile. In fact, he's just 'lost a kidney', IIKWIM."

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142

We can all only aspire to Ogged's level of commitment to this site. The lengths he'll go for blog fodder.

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143

I know, this totally ups the ante.

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144

first google hit for "saddest story ever told"
second google hit for "saddest story ever told"

I think that it is just a coincidence.

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145

If the blog really needs it, I think someone should volunteer to get pregnant and accidentally break their water with a vibrator. Apo?

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146

144: Wow, that second one is so funky.

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147

A woman I know came out as a lesbian after developing an obsession with Shania Twain. I think I was more surprised by the admission that she listened to country.

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148

this totally ups the ante.

Sure does, Mr. Wussy Colonoscopy.

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149

Speaking of vibrators.

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150

Apo?

I'm afraid the best I could do is break somebody else's water with a vibrator.

But I'm willing to do my part.

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151

I keep a closer eye on people who loudly declare that they don't like any hip hop.

It's more disappointment for me. I'm always disappointed in music fans (not people like Cala or teofilo) who declare their uninterest in hip hop. I'm loathe to accuse them of racism, because that frequently isn't the case, but it does point to a sort of dull incuriousness. But I also feel the same way about pop. I don't care if you're uninterested in Rihanna, but I might roll my eyes if I hear remarks about "commercialized pap." I don't at all agree that there's anything weird about trying to engage with music that's totally out of your own social milieu. Music is largely a performance art to start with and performatively I can be a cowboy as easily as I can be a blue grass hillbilly or a rock 'n roller or a bhangra DJ. It's all about the sounds; and it's all make-believe, anyway.

I'm not a huge fan of Merritt--I think he's something of a pompous ass. But I think he was unfairly maligned at the EMP conference. A few bloggers took offhand comments he made at a panel discussion and turned them into a racist tirade. That's not cool. For anyone who cares, this discussion includes eye-witness accounts of the event.

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152

Ok, I've unbanned myself.

My earlier comment really arises out of my experience with a fairly successful local-circuit DJ I used to know quite well who in his collection of thousands of electronic albums had almost no music that could described as being influenced by African-American music. Even the house stuff seemed to be filtered through Belgium. I thought "huh, it's too bad he's missing out on this great music" until he matter-of-factly dropped a few horrifically racist comments into casual conversation. More than once.

But that's a stark instance of someone who was serious about music, pretended to be eclectic and wasn't, and who actually held a lot of latent of latent racism: a single, weird case that I shouldn't generalize too much.

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153

152: I'll bet he had a wicked extended dance remix of "The Saddest Story Ever Told".

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154

(the one from the second link, that is)

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155

There was some horseshit on the news this morning about someone getting voted off the Idol. Was it Taylor? Why no update, Tia? How else are we supposed to learn about these things??

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