Early 20s, for me. It's not that I don't still do stupid stuff, but since 25 or so I have recognized it as 'the kind of stupid stuff I do' rather than 'I can't imagine how I could have been such an idiot back then.'
JFTR, I don't have to look back that far -- I am frequently asking myself how I could have been such an idiot just yesterday, or this morning -- occasionally I will even be asking myself that simultaneously to when I am perpetrating the idiocy in question.
Hmm, I used to do this a lot, but now that you mention it, I think I don't do it so much anymore. Now it's more, "Yeah, that's about the only way that could have turned out" or "Given what I knew, that was reasonable." Also, it's not clear that there's a civil war in Iraq.
Yeah, I agree with LB. Although I haven't yet gotten past looking back and saying, "you know, I really didn't need to be such an anxious freak about that." But anxious freak is definitely not the same thing as idiot.
I gave up on not being an idiot a while ago. Now I just try not to be a life-destroying idiot. It gives me a little wiggle room to do dumb things but not beat myself up about it.
The quality of particular acts of idiocy can overwhelm the frequency of it, but I more often think of idiocy as measured by frequency--I am more idiotic when I do more dumb things.
I definitely think people's personalities solidify as they get older. I don't feel different than I did 5-10 years ago. Even big life changes , like having kids, don't change how I view my personality.
I've probably just made peace with a certain level of idiocy that I find fun, and that level has stayed pretty much the same since my mid-teens (I'm very idiocy-tolerant, clearly). This allows me to keep looking back and generally thinking I've made good choices, even if most objective sane people would beg to differ.
sorrows are like soul-jewels, and idiocy is the only way to get them. So, you see, looking back and saying "I was an idiot" is no different from saying, "my soul is very rich," and that is an impolite thing to say, in light of not everyone's soul is rich.
I don't really look back on any of my life decisions or attitudes with regret or remorse or even anger at my old self. I don't think I was ever too huge of an idiot. I think I'm a pretty big idiot right now, but I plan on being much less of one year by year, and I've made steady progress since my early teens, so I'm hopeful. (Current issues? Social anxiety and self-discipline. After that, the moon?)
As I get older, I think I'm generally less of an idiot as a person. Or at least, being a dick is less of a default state of affairs. There's not a lot I've done in the past 2 or 3 years that I really think was stupid or regretable.
I still have episodes of being an idiot/arse/selfish-pig though and there's still indivudal moments from the recent past that make me cringe.
The personality solidifying with age thing rings true with me. Although I don't think I've changed that much since my early 20s. Incremental changes compared to the more drastic ones between, say, 17 and 21.
The gap is lengthening - now at 35 I have to go more than 6 years to find things that make me think "wtf?". I kind of like it though, because it makes me feel pleased with how much I have grown/developed since then.
I don't think I've really changed who I am, I think I have just become more intensely myself, if that makes sense.
The eight year old winn and the twenty-eight year old winn want basically the same things, have basically the same tastes, enjoy the same experiences, more or less. I'm really different than I was at seventeen, though. It's like I became someone else for a bit when I hit college, then promptly reverted to being myself at twenty-five.
Both the eight and the twenty-eight year old winn like harpsichords, for example.
One great advantage of marriage is having someone to point out in real time that one is doing something idiotic. Parents would serve that function into the mid-20s and beyond, except for there's a sort of Cassandra-delay effect: one cannot believe their prophecies of doom and gloom in real time.
As previously noted, I play on both the offensive and defensive squads in this game: I'm sorry to report to the younger among you that in truth there's not more satisfaction in 'I told you so' than in 'Geez, you were right after all.'
I don't think I've really changed who I am, I think I have just become more intensely myself, if that makes sense.
That's exactly right.
Re. marriage, kids, and this "soul wealth" nonsense, all I have to say is that PK Is beating me *again* at Monopoly Jr., and this idea that kids make you rich is complete bullshit.
I don't think I've really changed who I am, I think I have just become more intensely myself, if that makes sense.
This can go to extremes. When my paternal grandmother entered her late 90s senility finally took hold. She became a caricature of herself with all the fine distinctions of her personality erased. She had become more like herself in the saddest way.
Yeah, actually I'm thinking that I'll just have him start running the family finances. Of course, he prefers everything in single bills, because it seems like more money that way, so maybe not.
I read this thread in its entirety before commenting.
Never mind the 150 blogs with enbedded links, I can't believe how many long comment threads I lurk through.
43: I did. Oddly, I don't regret my lack of reading comprehension, either, since I was reading while playing Monopoly Jr., fetching snacks, and sitting on about the only clean space in the house, the sleeping bag on the living room floor where we're all camping until the bedroom painting is done.
At 28, I'm both hoping that this will happen (that I'll stop thinking the 3-5 years ago me was an idiot) and a little frightened that this will happen.
Though I guess it wouldn't necessarily mean I had stagnated- I mean, it's not as though the levels of non-idiocy are infinite.
Does an age ever come where you stop looking back and thinking the person you were 3 to 5 years ago was a clueless idiot?
No. You just find yourself being an idiot about different stuff as you get older.
Look, this is a good thing. If you stop thinking there's a fair chance at any given time that you're going to make a complete pratfall, you start believing that your judgement is infallible and the next thing you know, you're Tony Blair.
You know, I've been trying to put this into play in reverse. When I look at a recent picture of me, round cheeks, haggard-looking, I try to think: 5 years from now you'll think you looked young and energetic.
Come to think of it, more sleep and exercise might work better than this.
Does an age ever come where you stop looking back and thinking the person you were 3 to 5 years ago was a clueless idiot?
This is a "have you stopped beating your wife" question. Some of us have never been clueless idiots.
In a few instances, faced with a situation which was not entirely ideal and given imperfect information, we may perhaps have behaved in a way that others might fail to understand properly.
speaking of mistakes, emerson, you referred to me as "alameida" on another, less pseudonymous blog's comments thread, causing me to have to edit the comment. and that was like four days ago. I call "pwned". in a loving way, though. a loving, "you're banned!!" way.
Serendipitous reading, from Didion: "I think we are well advised to keep on nodding terms with the people we used to be whether we find them attractive company or not."
We always think we were idiots, I think. Or hopefully we do, because it's the worse idiots who can't admit it, and we all are. Or something.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:37 PM
I figure you just come to accept idiocy as the natural course of things. Then, your own particular brand of idiocy stops disturbing you.
Posted by hermit greg | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:41 PM
Early 20s, for me. It's not that I don't still do stupid stuff, but since 25 or so I have recognized it as 'the kind of stupid stuff I do' rather than 'I can't imagine how I could have been such an idiot back then.'
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:43 PM
JFTR, I don't have to look back that far -- I am frequently asking myself how I could have been such an idiot just yesterday, or this morning -- occasionally I will even be asking myself that simultaneously to when I am perpetrating the idiocy in question.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:46 PM
But of course, 2 doesn't give an age: It was, like LB, early- to mid-20s.
Posted by hermit greg | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:46 PM
Hmm, I used to do this a lot, but now that you mention it, I think I don't do it so much anymore. Now it's more, "Yeah, that's about the only way that could have turned out" or "Given what I knew, that was reasonable." Also, it's not clear that there's a civil war in Iraq.
Posted by ogged | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:47 PM
I believe the choices are:
"I was such an idiot back then." and "I am John Emerson."
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:48 PM
Yeah, I agree with LB. Although I haven't yet gotten past looking back and saying, "you know, I really didn't need to be such an anxious freak about that." But anxious freak is definitely not the same thing as idiot.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:49 PM
I just wish everyone else would lower their rate of idiocy to my relatively low rate. That way they'd annoy me less.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:49 PM
I gave up on not being an idiot a while ago. Now I just try not to be a life-destroying idiot. It gives me a little wiggle room to do dumb things but not beat myself up about it.
Posted by winna | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:51 PM
Is "rate of idiocy" correct? I should think it would be "level of idiocy" or something like that -- the idiocy is not moving.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 2:52 PM
11: Maybe the frequency (as opposed to the degree) with which idiocy manifests itself?
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:00 PM
The quality of particular acts of idiocy can overwhelm the frequency of it, but I more often think of idiocy as measured by frequency--I am more idiotic when I do more dumb things.
Posted by hermit greg | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:03 PM
I can't believe no one is challenging Text's premise.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:07 PM
the rate of idiocy is measured in dolts.
I am the least idiotic man alive!
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:13 PM
I can't believe no one is challenging Text's premise.
No need to. In two or three years, he'll reread comment 9 and realize what an idiot he was.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:16 PM
I definitely think people's personalities solidify as they get older. I don't feel different than I did 5-10 years ago. Even big life changes , like having kids, don't change how I view my personality.
Posted by joe o | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:19 PM
I've probably just made peace with a certain level of idiocy that I find fun, and that level has stayed pretty much the same since my mid-teens (I'm very idiocy-tolerant, clearly). This allows me to keep looking back and generally thinking I've made good choices, even if most objective sane people would beg to differ.
Posted by JAC | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:23 PM
sorrows are like soul-jewels, and idiocy is the only way to get them. So, you see, looking back and saying "I was an idiot" is no different from saying, "my soul is very rich," and that is an impolite thing to say, in light of not everyone's soul is rich.
Go make me a sandwich.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:27 PM
I don't really look back on any of my life decisions or attitudes with regret or remorse or even anger at my old self. I don't think I was ever too huge of an idiot. I think I'm a pretty big idiot right now, but I plan on being much less of one year by year, and I've made steady progress since my early teens, so I'm hopeful. (Current issues? Social anxiety and self-discipline. After that, the moon?)
Posted by pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:28 PM
I look back 6 months and think that I'm an idiot.
Posted by Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:33 PM
I look back on text's "soul-jewels" with regret and remorse.
Posted by hermit greg | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:37 PM
no, hermit greg, that's my role. Then I'll ban myself for awhile.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:38 PM
Corollary: blogging and especially, commenting on blogs, makes one immeasurably soul-richer.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:43 PM
Okay, bartender, but just one more—my soul's rich enough as it is.
Posted by Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:47 PM
As I get older, I think I'm generally less of an idiot as a person. Or at least, being a dick is less of a default state of affairs. There's not a lot I've done in the past 2 or 3 years that I really think was stupid or regretable.
I still have episodes of being an idiot/arse/selfish-pig though and there's still indivudal moments from the recent past that make me cringe.
The personality solidifying with age thing rings true with me. Although I don't think I've changed that much since my early 20s. Incremental changes compared to the more drastic ones between, say, 17 and 21.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:48 PM
I look back five minutes and think I'm an idiot.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:49 PM
Learning from your mistakes and growing is for idiots.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:51 PM
And if text is right about soul-jewels, I'm going to paint myself baby blue and change my name to Tiffany.
Posted by jmcq | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:52 PM
you should do that either way, jm. you won't regret it.
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 3:56 PM
The gap is lengthening - now at 35 I have to go more than 6 years to find things that make me think "wtf?". I kind of like it though, because it makes me feel pleased with how much I have grown/developed since then.
Posted by asilon | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 4:03 PM
I don't think I've really changed who I am, I think I have just become more intensely myself, if that makes sense.
The eight year old winn and the twenty-eight year old winn want basically the same things, have basically the same tastes, enjoy the same experiences, more or less. I'm really different than I was at seventeen, though. It's like I became someone else for a bit when I hit college, then promptly reverted to being myself at twenty-five.
Both the eight and the twenty-eight year old winn like harpsichords, for example.
Posted by winna | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 4:07 PM
Also, per "Domesticity," I submit that being married and having children ought to increase your opportunity for soul-wealth.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 4:28 PM
Marriage definitely makes a difference, imho.
Although in my case I had a couple of long co-habiting relationships before I got married so maybe it's a case of 3rd time lucky.
Posted by nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 4:34 PM
One great advantage of marriage is having someone to point out in real time that one is doing something idiotic. Parents would serve that function into the mid-20s and beyond, except for there's a sort of Cassandra-delay effect: one cannot believe their prophecies of doom and gloom in real time.
As previously noted, I play on both the offensive and defensive squads in this game: I'm sorry to report to the younger among you that in truth there's not more satisfaction in 'I told you so' than in 'Geez, you were right after all.'
Posted by CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 5:28 PM
I don't think I've really changed who I am, I think I have just become more intensely myself, if that makes sense.
That's exactly right.
Re. marriage, kids, and this "soul wealth" nonsense, all I have to say is that PK Is beating me *again* at Monopoly Jr., and this idea that kids make you rich is complete bullshit.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 5:47 PM
I have the sneaking suspicion I'm turning into my paternal grandmother.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 5:59 PM
I'm sorry to report to the younger among you that in truth there's not more satisfaction in 'I told you so' than in 'Geez, you were right after all.'
Maybe not for you, CharleyCarp. Maybe not for you.
Posted by Josh | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 6:42 PM
I don't think I've really changed who I am, I think I have just become more intensely myself, if that makes sense.
This can go to extremes. When my paternal grandmother entered her late 90s senility finally took hold. She became a caricature of herself with all the fine distinctions of her personality erased. She had become more like herself in the saddest way.
Posted by md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 7:08 PM
36: Perhaps you should move up to real Monopoly.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 7:18 PM
Yeah, actually I'm thinking that I'll just have him start running the family finances. Of course, he prefers everything in single bills, because it seems like more money that way, so maybe not.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 7:24 PM
I am always already an idiot.
(I like to think I've become less of a dick about it-- though given my idiocy in the past I could be wrong about that.)
Posted by Paul | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 8:05 PM
"and this idea that kids make you rich is complete bullshit."
rich in sorrows, b, rich in sorrows. Now don't you regret failing to read the thread in its entirety before posting?
Posted by text | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 8:45 PM
I read this thread in its entirety before commenting.
Never mind the 150 blogs with enbedded links, I can't believe how many long comment threads I lurk through.
Being and Idiocy.
Posted by bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 10:04 PM
43: I did. Oddly, I don't regret my lack of reading comprehension, either, since I was reading while playing Monopoly Jr., fetching snacks, and sitting on about the only clean space in the house, the sleeping bag on the living room floor where we're all camping until the bedroom painting is done.
So don't hassle me, man.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08- 7-06 11:38 PM
At 28, I'm both hoping that this will happen (that I'll stop thinking the 3-5 years ago me was an idiot) and a little frightened that this will happen.
Though I guess it wouldn't necessarily mean I had stagnated- I mean, it's not as though the levels of non-idiocy are infinite.
Posted by Blume | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 12:39 AM
Do you mean that PK prefers everything in singles, or in single bills?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 2:32 AM
Does an age ever come where you stop looking back and thinking the person you were 3 to 5 years ago was a clueless idiot?
No. You just find yourself being an idiot about different stuff as you get older.
Look, this is a good thing. If you stop thinking there's a fair chance at any given time that you're going to make a complete pratfall, you start believing that your judgement is infallible and the next thing you know, you're Tony Blair.
Posted by OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 6:29 AM
47 - He prefers everything in singles, and stuffed in his underwear.
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 7:40 AM
49 -- cheese also?
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 7:51 AM
You know, I've been trying to put this into play in reverse. When I look at a recent picture of me, round cheeks, haggard-looking, I try to think: 5 years from now you'll think you looked young and energetic.
Come to think of it, more sleep and exercise might work better than this.
Posted by cw | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 7:58 AM
this idea that kids make you rich is complete bullshit.
Quoting my 11-year old over the weekend while she was raking in a pot:
"Ha ha. I win again."
Posted by shpx.ohfu | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 8:21 AM
Does an age ever come where you stop looking back and thinking the person you were 3 to 5 years ago was a clueless idiot?
This is a "have you stopped beating your wife" question. Some of us have never been clueless idiots.
In a few instances, faced with a situation which was not entirely ideal and given imperfect information, we may perhaps have behaved in a way that others might fail to understand properly.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 8:50 AM
I didn't see #7. I gues I am pwned.
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 8:51 AM
Idiot! [/Napoleon Dynamite]
Posted by Stanley | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 8:55 AM
speaking of mistakes, emerson, you referred to me as "alameida" on another, less pseudonymous blog's comments thread, causing me to have to edit the comment. and that was like four days ago. I call "pwned". in a loving way, though. a loving, "you're banned!!" way.
Posted by alameida | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:46 AM
56 -- hey I noticed that when it happened. Ought I to have alerted you? I wasn't really thinking straight or I would have dropped you a line.
Posted by Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:53 AM
There was an old man in my hometown, and my father posed this question to him when he was 90. "What a fool I was when I was 80!"
Posted by Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 9:55 AM
I hate it when I forget which persona I'm dealing with. I mistook Jesus for the Holy Ghost once, and he was pissed!
Posted by John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 11:26 AM
Serendipitous reading, from Didion: "I think we are well advised to keep on nodding terms with the people we used to be whether we find them attractive company or not."
Posted by hermit greg | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 12:12 PM
A brief meditation on this topic.
Posted by yeti | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 1:52 PM
Okay, apparently I can't handle even the simplest tags. Here's the URL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlp3rReIo68
Posted by yeti | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 1:53 PM
Not since 28. Or, um, no not in the last 5 years.
Thank goodness I'm past all that.
Posted by roberta | Link to this comment | 08- 8-06 5:45 PM