Re: Might as well have a good attitude about it.

1

I was once at a party where a pregnant woman confessed to me that she was terrified that her baby was going to be black, since that might, er, give away the fact that it was not her husband's child.

horizontal rule
2

You know, my impression of you is probably influenced by the fact that I don't actually know you, just your internet persona, but I'm completely charmed that you ran into someone capable of leaving you nonplussed. I get the sense that it usually runs in the other direction.

horizontal rule
3

I get the sense that it usually runs in the other direction.

Yes, usually. However, remember Ogged's impression upon meeting me? "The apostropher was another surprise, just because he seemed so damn normal. I guess I was expecting him to show up in a t-shirt with a gruesome scene pictured on the front, and the entire internet in his back pocket, but, in fact, he seems like the kind of guy you'd let babysit your kids. Seriously."

horizontal rule
4

She knows the exact date of conception, but not who the daddy is?

horizontal rule
5

3: Myself, I rarely make it to plussed.

horizontal rule
6

Yeah, that struck me, too. 13 weeks & three days... do most women know the days without knowing the conception date?

horizontal rule
7

If you have an ultrasound, they give you a gestational age in days -- I don't think it's all that exact for real, but the machine does give you a number. And you can also count from your last menstrual period, which is exact (wrong, but exact).

horizontal rule
8

1: AC, did you hear the "This american life" story on this? It was wild-- apparently this kid was growing up as a white child when he gradually started to realize that something was different. Apparently his mom had just hoped that he'd be light-skinned enough to fit into their Italian family, and this got progressively less plausible as time went on.

horizontal rule
9

Or, y'know, she had an eventful day.

horizontal rule
10

8: That is a fantastic TAL. One of my favorites.

horizontal rule
11

I knew a four-year old who thought her siblings' father was also her own biological father...while every damn stranger on the street could see that she would've had two white biological parents, but her siblings all would've had one black parent, one white parent.

That deception made me really uneasy. Especially because as a teenager she'll realize how OBVIOUS it was to total strangers.

horizontal rule
12

8- No. Craziness. In my woman's case, she was assuming the delivery would decide matters. I pictured the husband standing in the delivery room getting progressively more and more suprised. Never did hear what happened with that.

horizontal rule
13

12: I wonder if you could get an amnio and have your OB do a prenatal paternity test? It sounds possible, albeit unethical toward the possible father.

horizontal rule
14

'You', of course, in 13, s/b 'One'.

horizontal rule
15

Thanks for the clarification.

horizontal rule
16

13- why unethical towards the father? Aside from the original cheating or lying?

Because it'd ruin the plotline of My Two Dads?

horizontal rule
17

"Her: Honey, I don't even know who the daddy is."

This could be interpreted as "Answer forthcoming",
daddy being the guy she choose to help raise it.

horizontal rule
18

Birth control is for sissies

"Pussies" or "dicks," rather, I should say.

horizontal rule
19

Why does everybody always ask if it's a boy or a girl?

horizontal rule
20

19 - because it's boring to talk about someone else's fetus and there's no other defining characteristics?

I'll start inquiring about the baby's race, though. :)

horizontal rule
21

a t-shirt that said "Birth control is for sissies."

Wow. Where do you buy a shirt like that?

I'd like to see a t-shirt advertising female condoms with the slogan "Birth control is for pussies."

horizontal rule
22

19: What else is there to say besides congratulations? It's going to be a baby, no matter what. Naked, wrinkly, and whiny. Gender is pretty much the only other thing to ask about.

Some people don't want to find out, though.

horizontal rule
23

I just found out an old friend of mine - due any day now - is naming her baby Katrina. Totally not kidding. I'm not sure what to make of this. Is it in bad taste or not? Are they just ostriches about current events?

To the best of my knowledge, it's not an old family name.

horizontal rule
24

21: Judging by the Google results, you buy it from a maternity-wear store.

horizontal rule
25

because it's boring to talk about someone else's fetus and there's no other defining characteristics?

Better to ask, "Has it reach viability yet?"

horizontal rule
26

Better to ask, "Has it reach viability yet?"

Or "Did life begin at conception?"

horizontal rule
27

23: I see no problem with naming a child Katrina. There are probably people who think it in poor taste, but it's still a beautiful name.

horizontal rule
28

23: Does it matter, honestly? Do you think in 2016 people will be thinking 'wait a minute.. she's 10 years old.. and how long ago was that hurricane?'

horizontal rule
29

19- Because gender determines EVERYTHING!!!!!!! [Insert feminist rant here.]

horizontal rule
30

I mean, 9 years old. Damn off-by-one errors.

horizontal rule
31

It would be in worse taste to start a band and call it "Katrina and the Waves".

horizontal rule
32

27 - Even though it's so soon? It just seems like you're inviting a torrent of weird discussions about why you named your kid what you chose.

My parents gave me a bizarre name - I'm no stranger to explanations - but I would have pegged this couple as not wanting to get a rise out of anyone.

horizontal rule
33

My parents gave me a bizarre name - I'm no stranger to explanations - but I would have pegged this couple as not wanting to get a rise out of anyone.

When your last name is "geebie", it's hard to resist.

horizontal rule
34

No, yeah, it won't matter in ten years. I was just surprised.

horizontal rule
35

Apo, did the pregnant lady properly admire your penis?

horizontal rule
36

Re: "Katrina," that reminded me of the NameVoyager, which graphs usage of a name according to census records.

"Camille" actually increased in popularity after 1969, so go figure.

horizontal rule
37

lol on 33

horizontal rule
38

I have a cousin (22) names Katrina. She's a little put off by this whole hurricane problem.

But as to 23, no I don't think it's in poor taste. An odd choice, certainly, for right now, but not bad taste.

horizontal rule
39

The Name Voyager seems to have data by decade rather than by year... not enough granularity to determine hurricanes' effect.

FWIW, in 1992 Andrew was the #5 name for baby boys; in 1993 it dropped to #10.

horizontal rule
40

35: In high school.

horizontal rule
41

I always found it annoying when people asked the sex, but I admit I do it too. It's nicer, I think, to ask how the pregnant lady's doing, though.

Re. the father guessing the race of the child at birth: actually, at birth, it can be quite hard to tell. Babies' skin can darken with age.

horizontal rule
42

'Andrew' isn't as distinctive a name as 'Katrina' or 'Camille.' But I wouldn't associate a Camille with the hurricane, and I expect that a Katrina years down the road would probably not remind people of a hurricane.

horizontal rule
43

40: And you didn't plant a seed? Well, I guess we know what that makes you...

horizontal rule
44

My nephew was born on 9/11. He's really bummed, though no one forgets his birthday.

horizontal rule
45

I don't find it annoying when people ask, but as one of those parents-to-be who doesn't want to know the sex in advance, I can say I'm surprised how often I have to explain why not. (Because that's always the next question.)

horizontal rule
46

We did know, but we decided not to tell anyone else. What's really surprising is how mad people get when you say that. Seriously: a stranger on the bus once scolded me about it. Weird.

horizontal rule
47

not enough granularity to determine hurricanes' effect

Generally true, but Camille was 1969.

Also, if you hover the mouse at the very right, it'll give you by-year info for 2003, 2004, 2005. I tried that with "Katrina" (enjoying a mild resurgence after its heady 1980s reign and catastrophic decline in the 1990s).

horizontal rule
48

46- we weren't going to tell anyone, but took so much flack that we caved. We held fast on not telling anyone the name though, which also got us in plenty of trouble.

horizontal rule
49

Why does everybody always ask if it's a boy or a girl?

The only other conceivable (ha) questions are:
1. Was it an accident?
2. Does it have any extra chromosomes?
For some reason, people don't kinder to those queries.

horizontal rule
50

Isn't that weird, how people feel *entitled* to know about *your* pregnancy? (Or, in your case, your wife's.) So obnoxious.

horizontal rule
51

She's a little put off by this whole hurricane problem.

"Katrina Is a Bitch" stickers are popular down here in Mississippi, and presumably in Louisiana. I've been wondering how people named Katrina feel when they see those. Gotta be a bit dejecting after a while.

horizontal rule
52

Depends how you feel about being called a bitch.

horizontal rule
53

Babies' skin can darken with age.

Or lighten. At birth, ours was dark-skinned and black-haired and looked like his Okinawan grandfather. At 4-5 months, all the dark hair fell out, and when the hair came back he was a blond haole kid.

My sister's name is Katrina. Her husband's name is Andrew. I had never noticed the hurricane connection before (although I did tease her about giving Florida a good whack on the way by, before what happened to New Orleans made any such joking non-funny).

horizontal rule
54

I don't think I'd wander up and ask a stranger if she was pregnant, but if it were a friend, I can't think of not asking if she knew the sex of the baby.

Not because I'm entitled to know, but it's a pretty big deal and what other questions are there to ask to show interest besides: How are you feeling? Do you know if it's going to be a boy or a girl? But in the case of the latter question: 'we decided to be surprised' is a perfectly fine answer.

Getting pissed off about a lack of answer would be stupid. But it seems it happens, especially if the parents know and don't want to share name information.

horizontal rule
55

47: Fortunately, the SSA releases the top 1000 baby names every year, so you don't have to just compare the 1960s to the 1970s. Here's the data for Camille.

horizontal rule
56

When someone tells you they're pregnant, the fun response is to say, "Who cares?"

horizontal rule
57

"How did that happen?"

horizontal rule
58
All right, then. Not only is it possible for fraternal twins to have different fathers, it has actually happened. There's even a medical term for it: superfecundation. The classic case, which is discussed in Williams Obstetrics (1980), was recorded in 1810 by John Archer, the first doctor to receive a medical degree in the United States. According to Archer, a white woman who had sex with a black man and a white man within a short time subsequently gave birth to twins--one white, one mulatto. Other cases have been reported since.
horizontal rule
59

If someone you meet won't tell you boy/girl, you can always just ask the position they used to conceive. Missionary is more liekly to get you a girl, doggy-style is more likely a boy. Also, ask the woman if she had an orgasm. Female orgasm= more liekly boy. No orgasm= more likely girl.

horizontal rule
60

So no orgasm, rear entry or orgasm, missionary = even steven?

horizontal rule
61

This sort of thing is important for couples who don't want to bias the selection procedure.

horizontal rule
62

58: Shhhh, nobody tell this guy.. I think he actually believes the story!

horizontal rule
63

It's just playing with the probabilities, ben, it's obviously not completely determinative. But if you're not looking to tip the scales one way or the other, then yeah, I guess the options you set out are reasonable.

horizontal rule
64

Or maybe one of those two is the way to make an hermaphrodite, if that's your goal. I dunno.

horizontal rule
65

I have a hard time thinking of any reason that female orgasm could make a difference.

No, wait, I mean.. aargh!

horizontal rule
66

59: What kind of baby is more likely with buttsex?

horizontal rule
67


We had three children in fairly quick succession and used to joke that we had no idea how it had happened. Some people got quite wound up at this, as though unplanned pregnancy was too serious a topic for levity. But you've gotta laugh, really.

horizontal rule
68

We've established that: a lawyer.

horizontal rule
69

I'm actually pretty sure buttsex isn't one of the preferred methods of conception.

Although that's another great question to ask a pregnant lady: "It didn't by chance result from buttsex, did it?"

horizontal rule
70

yeah, but preferred or no ... what gender is more likely?

horizontal rule
71

65- was this a genuine question or just a joke? Female orgams makes the vaginal canal more alkaline, which supposedly is somewhat better for the smaller, faster "male" sperm.

horizontal rule
72

68 to 66, or 56?

horizontal rule
73

71: Seriously? So what could someone like me, who'd like a girl as well, do? Just suck it up and deal with all boys?

horizontal rule
74

It was both. I have sort of a hard time believing that there are other external factors behind sex determination, since in practice what we see is remarkably close to a 50/50 distribution, and there should be exactly as many X-chromosome sperm as Y-chromosome sperm.

horizontal rule
75

People, this determining the sex stuff is nonsense. It might make a very small statistical difference, but, meh.

horizontal rule
76

OTOH, the idea of ogged with a raft of girls in tow makes me laugh.

horizontal rule
77

It might make a very small statistical difference

Not the buttsex method. That one has a pretty large effect, as I understand it.

horizontal rule
78

Brock sounds as if he knows more about this than I do, but I have the impression that while it's not impossible to affect the sex of a child through the kind of stuff he's talking about, you can only affect odds in an incredibly minor way. But I'd have to do some reading to be sure.

horizontal rule
79

Look folks, I don't make the science, I just report it. Google it and you'll get about 500,000 hits that all say this exact same thing. My understanding is that the results are real, but -- as I said above -- FAR from determinative.

SCTM: I think people like you and I (who are physically incapable of not giving a woman an orgasm) are supposed to ice our balls before sex, or something like that. I don't know; I haven't actually looked at this stuff that closely. My wife and I didn't much care whether we had a boy or girl. And so of course we had a boy.

I read 74 as neil's confession that he has six daughters and no sons, and is now feeling despondent knowing his wife has been faking all these years.

horizontal rule
80

And my only point in bringing any of this up was to suggest some good alternative questions to ask a pregnant woman, for those of you who cannot seem to imagine anything beyond "boy or girl?"

horizontal rule
81

In my experience, faking my own orgasms leads to boys. Also, it makes them look like the guy down the street.

horizontal rule
82

I'm just being a pill. They say that fighter pilots are way more likely to have girls--something about the amount of g's they pull (yeah, ha ha). Plus, there's that yam thing; didn't they find that there was some region in Africa that had a disproportionate number of boys, I think it was, and they traced it to a diet heavy in yams?

horizontal rule
83

"Have you chosen a pre-school yet?"

horizontal rule
84

Translation of 75: "PK's a boy, and I sure as hell didn't get off."

horizontal rule
85

59: Three pregnant women were in the doctor's office. The first one said "He was on top so it'll be a boy". The second said "I was on top so itll be a girl". The third woman started crying uncontollably and said "I'm going to have a puppy."

The name "Monica" held steady during the early Clinton years, after declining starting about 1880, but plummeted after 1998 or so.

horizontal rule
86

85: also applies to 66

horizontal rule
87

Of course the effect is real. Don't you guys remember that scene from The Big Lebowski?

horizontal rule
88

84: Baby, I always get off. I mean, really: what man would dare disappoint me?

horizontal rule
89

Joke by Ezra Pound: As a prank his friends put a baby in bed with a drunken sailor and told him that it was his. He raised him as his own, but on his 18th birthday told the boy: "Son, all these years I've let you think that I'm you're father. But i'm not; I'm your mother. An Anglican bishop was your father."

horizontal rule
90

Of course the effect is real. Don't you guys remember that scene from The Big Lebowski?

When the woman is swinging through the air nude in her studio, the baby usually becomes a lesbian.

horizontal rule
91

"Google it and you'll get about 500,000 hits that all say this exact same thing".

Foolproof method there.

horizontal rule
92

I don't get Ezra's joke.

horizontal rule
93

Ok, Apostropher: Why were you expelled?

horizontal rule
94

An Anglican priest had fucked the sailor.

horizontal rule
95

94 to both 93 and 92.

horizontal rule
96

94 to 93.

horizontal rule
97

Damn you, Bitch!

horizontal rule
98

Do female non-primate animals orgasm?

horizontal rule
99

Whoops, I wasn't supposed to use orgasm as a verb, was I?

horizontal rule
100

99- No, and now you are banned!

horizontal rule
101

98: Indeed, do male non-primate animals have orgasms?

I see no reason to think that either females or males *wouldn't*, mind you.

horizontal rule
102

101: Silly, a male orgasm, regardless of the animal, is an objective fact. There's white stuff. With a female orgasm, how could you possibly know?

horizontal rule
103

There's supposed to be methods for getting a female cat in heat to have an orgasm, using a Q-tip. I don't know if the word "orgasm" really has a scientific definition though. Maybe something relating to the movement of certain muscles? That Dutch study with the people having sex in the MRI was inconclusive.

horizontal rule
104

There's supposed to be methods for getting a female cat in heat to have an orgasm, using a Q-tip.

This is almost exactly the last thing I wanted to read while eating my dinner. Thanks.

horizontal rule
105

My sister, when faced with total strangers ooohing and trying to touch her abdomen and saying things like 'Aw, you're pregnant' would stare at them and say 'Do you think so? I thought I was just getting fat!'

That tended to preclude any further questioning.

horizontal rule
106

Ok, Apostropher: Why were you expelled?

I was caught drinking almost as soon as I got to the school, then was caught with my girlfriend in my room at 7 in the morning just before the end of the first semester. It was the (asshole) principal's first year there and he felt he needed to make some examples, and I effectively raised my hand and shouted "Me! Me! Me!"

Not my parents' proudest moment.

horizontal rule
107

There are physical signs of a female orgasm after the fact, but they're mostly internal- if you could put the animal in an MRI you could tell pretty easily. (I'm referring to the paper where people had sex in an MRI so they could see where everything went.)
This also refers back to the A Softer World discussion.

horizontal rule
108

physical signs of a female orgasm

Their bellybuttons pop out, like on a Stovall turkey.

horizontal rule
109

Turkeys don't have bellybuttons, you mouth breather. Each one is made anew.

horizontal rule
110

Hey, Apo, at least you graduated from somewhere. I don't get invited to any reunions. OTOH, I regularly see what antics some of my old friends are up to on the internets, so it's just like high school, only with more grey hair.

horizontal rule
111

I don't know if the word "orgasm" really has a scientific definition though. Maybe something relating to the movement of certain muscles?
...
Do female non-primate animals orgasm?
...
101: Silly, a male orgasm, regardless of the animal, is an objective fact. There's white stuff. With a female orgasm, how could you possibly know?

All of this, and more, is discussed in fascinating detail in this book You can define an orgasm physically as a rhythmic contraction of the Kegel muscles. Give this definition, it is fairly easy to empirically determine if an animal is having an orgasm. You don’t need fancy equipment, you just need to be willing to stick your finger in unusual places.

Some researchers have speculated that the capacity to orgasm is spread widely throughout the mammals. However, this capacity is not realized it the wild for most animals. Orgasm in the wild has been confirmed for a variety of primates, though, including both apes and monkeys.

Now if you define the orgasm as a contraction of Kegel muscles, you separate it off from two other phenomena: the feeling of orgasm and ejaculation. In women, these occur separately all the time, to the extent that few women ejaculate, and many sex researchers still deny the existence of female ejaculation.

The interesting thing (for me anyway) is that muscle contraction, ejaculation, and the feeling of orgasm can all occur separately in men, too. Most men are familiar with muscle contraction without ejaculation: that’s what happens when you have already had sex several times that night. Supposedly, though, Sting-style Tantric practices can fully dissociate these phenomena, to the point where a man can experience multiple orgasms the way a woman does.

Is that TMI?

horizontal rule
112

Isn't that weird, how people feel *entitled* to know about *your* pregnancy?

You bitch, being pregnant is social, pretty much from start to finish. I'm not denying that people can be rude, but it seems perfectly natural that people want to know about a pregnancy.

horizontal rule
113

it seems perfectly natural that people want to know about a pregnancy.

But if pregnant people keep mentioning that it drives them nuts, maybe the perfectly natural thing could use some tasteful quelling.

horizontal rule
114

While we're quelling, could we also squish the God-awful "we're pregnant" thing? She's pregnant. He's not. Confusion on this rather simple point suggests that the correct locution would be "we're getting an abortion because we're obviously not competent to raise a child."

horizontal rule
115

It's like staring. I guess there are some cultures where it's okay to stare at people, but I percieve mine not to be one of these. People still stare, but we understand these people to be barbarians. We could imagine that our ideal society treats nosing around pregnant women the same way, and then work towards making it happen.

If you're just making a descriptive point about human curiosity then sure, no quibble, but I think the normative question is more interesting.

horizontal rule
116

115 desperately needs a copy editor. Kotsko?

horizontal rule
117

If you're just making a descriptive point about human curiosity

No, I think I'm really saying that the pregnancy belongs, just a little bit, to all your friends and acquaintances (probably not strangers, though I can see cultures where even they would feel entitled). It's a lot like marriage that way: you're changing their lives too, by changing the social fabric, so of course they're going to ask.

I'm not trying to trick you or anything bridgeplate, but are you pregnant?

horizontal rule
118

No, I'm just fat.

horizontal rule
119

115: See the very bottom of the page.

horizontal rule
120

It's a lot like marriage that way: you're changing their lives too, by changing the social fabric, so of course they're going to ask.

I think you're misdiscribing the social fabric in the US, or at least you're implying a stasis that I don't think is accurate.

horizontal rule
121

I just realized I'm trying to pick fights tonight, so I'm going to be quiet now.

horizontal rule
122

It's the cancer, isn't it? You miss it.

horizontal rule
123

Actually, I agree, Ogged: pregnancy is a social event. And I think it's fabulous when people ask about it, or smile at pregnant women. I'm sure I've written about how I think it's great when people discipline other folks' children, in a nice way. ("Listen to your mama!" "Now, do what your father says.") I'm all about the it takes a village thing.

What I was kind of objecting to is when they get *angry* at you for wanting to keep something private between yourself and your partner--the baby's expected sex, or the names you're thinking of, whatever. But good-natured fussing or inquires or curiosity, I'm all for it.

If you want to fight, though, I'm sure we can find a subject.

horizontal rule
124

Re. cats and orgasm: I don't know if you can induce orgasm, but you can induce *ovulation* in cats that way. They don't ovulate until they're penetrated, which (I think) is why cats in heat that aren't bred just go on yowling for days....

horizontal rule
125

While cows do have orgasms, it's really something you want to avoid. They can weigh up to 1000 lb., and when they get excited and start thrashing around it can get pretty dodgy. Fortunately, they seldom notice.

horizontal rule
126

Could this be an introvert/extrovert thing? And, if so, what are you extroverts doing on the internet? Shouldn't you be off rubbing bellies somewhere? And, get off my lawn.

horizontal rule
127

Good gracious, 126 to anything but 125.

horizontal rule
128

We extroverts like the internet because there's always someone to talk to.

horizontal rule
129

I've been told that the cry that chickens make when they lay eggs is one of pleasure. But how could you be sure?

horizontal rule
130

#106: You got kicked out for having a girl in your room? Where did you go, Bob Jones U? Or are you really seventy years old and you went to college in the 50's?

horizontal rule
131

High school, GB.

horizontal rule
132

Ohhhhhh, sorry, my bad.

But still....

horizontal rule
133

High school, GB.

I was sixteen years old.

horizontal rule
134

many sex researchers still deny the existence of female ejaculation

Now how is this possible, given that so many women report having ejaculated?

horizontal rule
135

Well, gynecologists used to deny the existence of menstrual cramps, too.

horizontal rule
136

GB: In 1965 M*** D*****, now a well-known author, was expelled from Reed college for having sex. A friend of mine, his partner's roommate, was disciplined for not being offended that her roommate was having sex. Because, you see, the whole rationale of the rule was to avoid offense to bystanders, and her failure to be offended destroyed the rationale, and was even worse than the offense itself, which after all was the whole reason why the rule existed.

True story. The rule was changed within a year. The school had had an unofficial tolerance policy already, but M.D. basically had refused to play along. Probably Reed was far ahead of the curve on liberalization.

Unofficially, many faculty had sex with students in those days, including gay male faculty.

horizontal rule
137

Apo was only sixteen. He quit having sex in his room when he rached maturity.

horizontal rule
138

I deny the existence of female instantiation.

horizontal rule
139

My mom got kicked out of college when they found out she'd gotten married.

horizontal rule
140

137: Technically, it wasn't even my room. I was using a the room of a friend who was away for the night, because his window had the fire escape.

horizontal rule
141

You got kicked out for having a girl in your room? Where did you go, Bob Jones U?

BYU still prohibits this. Opposite gender can't be in the apartment after 11 pm, and cannot go back into the bedrooms at all.

horizontal rule
142

Another fun BYU factoid. Shorts of any kind were against the dress code on campus until 1991.

Shorts are now allowed, but must be long enough to reach the middle of the knee. Incidentally, denim shorts that come past your knee coupled with a tucked in shirt is an especially doofy look for both genders.

horizontal rule
143

And Pensacola Christian, let me tell you.

horizontal rule
144

Plus, there's that yam thing; didn't they find that there was some region in Africa that had a disproportionate number of boys, I think it was, and they traced it to a diet heavy in yams?

Seeing as that diets heavy in yams are pretty damned prevalent all over Africa, including, I believe, the entirety of Nigeria, I find this implausible. Maybe they've got a lot of boys because they're killing the baby girls.

horizontal rule
145

Maybe they're using the yams as a bludgeon, though.

horizontal rule
146

AFAIK, Karen Finley is childless, so that's one important datapoint missing.

horizontal rule
147

Africa, including, I believe, the entirety of Nigeria,

Take that, all you people who say Nigeria is in Oceania! I defy you!

horizontal rule
148

"Yam Bludgeon" would make an awesome band name.

horizontal rule
149

148,
It would be a good band name. The best band name, however, would be Squawktopus.

horizontal rule
150

Jehovah's Rifle Cream.

horizontal rule
151

Ritual Goat Scorn.

horizontal rule
152

#149,

You sir, are a genius. The more I say it out loud, the better it sounds.

horizontal rule
153

136: Really? Not that I'm challenging you, but I went to Reed, and that's the sort of story that Reedies generally treat as sacred lore.

horizontal rule
154

I agree with gswift. "Squawktopus" rawks.

horizontal rule
155

BYU still prohibits this.

I was talking earlier tonight with a friend who goes to BYU; she was lamenting the difficulty she's had in organizing a camping trip, as co-ed excursions of that sort are less than encouraged. She's 22, and doesn't even live on campus.

They're good folk, but whenever the topic turns to dating or sex it's like having a conversation in middle school.

horizontal rule
156

I remember thinking I would get away with more living off campus. Then I learned the only way to pull that off is to live with a bunch of like minded guys you grew up with, because the entire student body is a bunch of fucking narcs.

Tip for long Utah winters at the Y:

A couple of phone books against the wall makes a good target for indoor shooting with a .22.

horizontal rule
157

Jesus McQ: Yeah, it's true. I knew about it because I was good friends with the roommate. The guy wasn't famous then, obviously, and all this happened his freshman year before anyone knew him. The couple disappeared from view immediately.

The year probably was late 1964 or early 1965, more likely 1964.

horizontal rule
158

"A couple of phone books against the wall makes a good target for indoor shooting with a .22. "

Wholesome indoor sports not involving body fluid exchange are encouraged in Middle America.

horizontal rule
159

Re: names. Some friends of mine recently successfully bred. His last name is Grey, her grandmother's first name was Jean. Enter their daughter, Alexandria Jean Grey.

My position on this is that I approve, but I like to tempt fate.

horizontal rule
160

156: Also for crossbow shooting. A hobby of cartoonist Wally Wood back in his New Haven days.

horizontal rule
161

Oh, it's not the sex of the baby, it's twins. And apparently it's more correlation than causation; I must have been misremembering some "how to have twins" thing on a mothering board or some such.

horizontal rule
162

159: I don't get it.

156: Is it true that the Y has people stationed at the Provo bars, such as they are, to make sure students don't go in?

horizontal rule
163

I assume NBarnes is referring to this Jean Grey.

horizontal rule
164

149 would be absolutely correct, if only -- if only "Squawk" as part of titles were not a signature bit at MSNBC -- listening to such a band could only remind me of sitting at my desk while the tube blathers on about the "Squawk on the Street" and "Squawkbox" and cetera.

horizontal rule
165

The best band name is The Menstrual Tramps. The second best band name is Jehovah's Hit List.

horizontal rule
166

I've always been partial to The Hatters.

horizontal rule
167

The Fattest Boy Scouts is the best band name ever.

(Also quite possibly the best band ever, although their full potential was unrealized. Ah... high school.)

horizontal rule
168

Question for John Emerson: Did you know Peter Norton in college?

The NBarnes-Jean Grey thing reminds me that it can be a mistake to assume that people of a certain type know comic book characters as well as the ancients knew mythology. Many on a site like this do, of course, but some have no idea. I, on the other hand, can remember them effortlessly. After forty years I can still visualize particular panels in detail.

horizontal rule
169

IDP: I remember him as the friend of the older brother of a friend. Never met him, but heard his name.

horizontal rule
170

I wrote up my Reed college sex and drugs story in more detail at the link.

horizontal rule
171

One more try at a link and then I quit.

horizontal rule
172

Is it true that the Y has people stationed at the Provo bars, such as they are, to make sure students don't go in?

I think that one is myth. I was under 21 when I went there and never tried to go to a bar, but I can't imagine how they'd pull that off. Now that I think about it, where the hell were the bars in that town? Offhand I can think of one on Center Street, and that's about it. I remember the Provo bans on Sunday alcohol sales, as if Sunday drinking was especially sinful or something.

horizontal rule
173

In NC, you still can't buy alcohol before noon on Sunday. It used to be 1:00, until we had an NFL team with games starting then. The Blue laws piss me off, but not as much as the fact that the church people get to park on the streets and block entire lanes during church hours. God, that chaps my ass.

horizontal rule
174

The Blue laws piss me off, but not as much as the fact that the church people get to park on the streets and block entire lanes during church hours. God, that chaps my ass.

Doesn't that happen everywhere?

horizontal rule
175

174 refers to the church-parking/lane-blocking, not the ass-chapping.

horizontal rule
176

As far as I know, yes. And I can't explain why it rankles me so, but goddammit, they can ride a bus, carpool, or find a parking space just like everybody else.

horizontal rule
177

Churches here have pretty good sized parking lots. Don't remember it happening back home, but that was godless Los Angeles, so perhaps not a representative sample.

horizontal rule
178

Provo bans on Sunday alcohol sales

Isn't that statewide? So says this site, which seems to be from before the Olympics so maybe it wasn't true while I was there. State stores were closed on Sunday as I remember (this was also true in PA so it didn't bug me so bad).

What I never got was the near beer thing. It's not like near beer is less sinful, is it?

I've still got the joker in blue law misery poker: you can't buy alcohol to take home in Lubbock city limits at all.

horizontal rule
179

I've never noticed the Sunday ban anywhere but Provo, so if it ever existed, it'd have to be fairly old.

The near beer thing is kind of ok because the prohibition is on "strong drinks", which is in modern times taken to mean alcoholic beverages. Enforcement of the Word of Wisdom is a bit selective. Every interview for "worthiness" like going to the temple, etc. involves questions about alcohol and smoking, but never does anyone get on your case about how meat is supposed to be eaten sparingly.

And dear god, no take home alcohol? I'm thinking that a lot of the people who emigrated here were people Europe was happy to get rid of.

horizontal rule
180

There's 32A-2-103 6a. God I'm anal.

But if you mean, "You can't go to a bar on Sunday," that definitely wasn't true in Salt Lake. I don't remember whether they had to close the near-beer aisle on Sunday, but probably not.

In Lubbock you drive to the edge of town and bring stuff back. I hear that they're thinking of annexing the liquor stores so they can get the tax revenue. Not that they would legalize sales in the rest of the city, because that would really disrupt established business interests and make life easier for us sinners.

horizontal rule
181

Speaking of parking, what do people think about people parking in front of other people's houses? I ask bc two people across the street from my home (of 11 years) don't like people (or maybe it's just me) parking in front of their houses. I only do it if I can't get into my own drive or in front of my own house for some reason (e.g., a flatbed parked in front of my house while getting another neighbor's classic car ready to load). Before they got all twitchy about it, I think I parked in front of either house, on average, once every two years or so.

One called me up once and asked me to move my car. I didn't until I was going somewhere. The other once left a note on my car asking me not to park in front of her house bc she couldn't move the strip of lawn by the sidewalk bc the cut grass would hit my car. Then, during winter, she called me up and reminded me that I'd agreed (?!?) not to park in front of my house in the winter bco ice on their sloped driveway (which the two women share) which is across from where I park.

I have never before met people who thought they had any right to tell people not to park in front of their house. I know people tend to park in front of their own houses, if only for ease, but does anyone feel like no one else should park in front of their house?

horizontal rule
182

Matt -- wouldn't the city annexing the liquor stores make the stores subject to the city's law which forbids sale of alcohol in the city? I'm confused.

horizontal rule
183

181 -- your neighbors seem weird to me. I have known people to get unhappy about somebody habitually parking in front of their house but not so unhappy as to make an issue of it.

horizontal rule
184

Parking in front of someone else's house occasionally is no big deal and ought to be tolerated by all parties. Parking in front of someone else's house with a high degree of regularity is different, and gives implicit consent to having your tires slashed. NTIWDTSOT.

horizontal rule
185

You could start parking on their lawn instead. "But I thought that was the agreement!"

horizontal rule
186

183 - To me, too. One is a middle aged divorced woman, the other a senior widow. I hate to say this (well, not really), but they seem like stereotypical harpies to me. The first woman's husband left as soon as the kids finished h.s. The second woman's husband died of his fifth heart attack. Not that she caused his heart attacks. I was sitting on my porch one day when he was still alive and saw him going behind a huge rhododendron (sp?) in the front yard. He's gardening, I thought. Then I saw smoke coming out of the rhododendron. Apparently, he took refuge in a large plant in order to smoke w/o the wife knowing. How that would be sufficient, I don't know; I'm sure he smelled like an ashtray.

horizontal rule
187

Ninety percent of the time, I can park on the street in front of my house. The only time this isn't true is on weekend days, when there is a huge influx of shoppers to the Indo-Pak stores less than two blocks from here.

I admit to being a tiny bit put out when I can't park in front of my house, at a time when there are other parking spots nearby. My neighbors though, particularly the older ones, are a good deal more proprietary, and will protest if someone's car stays in front of their houses for any length of time. I have assumed that permit parking, which is common in Chicago, is easily extracted from craven aldermen, and which causes my block to be parked-up on weekends because of its being in place farther south of the main drag, comes from this sense of territory.

This seems largely unrelated to the notorious Chicago practice of holding shoveled-out parking spots with chair-and-plank barriers. There the justification seems to be you're preserving the work you've done for yourself. When you mark a shoveled parking spot in front of your house, we're talking serious ownership.

horizontal rule
188

Neighbours like that are seriously creepy. I don't know what the conventions are in the US; in our street everybody parks as close to their house as they can and if they have to walk 20 metres, that's tough. Everybody seems to get on OK.

If this shows any sign of escalating, you should consider keeping a journal of incidents, mainly in case they decide to get litigious, but also to forestall this kind of thing.

horizontal rule
189

182, I think the idea is to grandfather them in or something.

annie, the hell with your neighbors. Maybe it's OK to complain about people parking in front of your house if it means that you have to walk a long way, particularly if you have trouble walking (OK, the senior widow might get a pass here). Or to complain about people parking in a space that you shoveled out of the snow. To complain about occasional legal parking just because it happens to be in front of your house is ridiculous.

horizontal rule
190

There's a guy who used to work in the place I work, but he just got a new job. His girlfriend still works here, though, and he can't park at his new job, so he drives her to work, leaves the car there and takes the bus. Today I had to park a block away because there were no more spaces in front of the office.

I'm not sure whether it's annoying or not. If it was his girlfriend's car, of course it wouldn't be...

horizontal rule
191

185 - Heh. Cannot do w/o damage to my car. Bco the slope of their yards, they have a stone wall along their frontage.

189 - I'd absolutely have no problem w/someone who had any kind of concerns about getting around. Senior lady's fine. I have never seen these two women park in front of their own houses. I wonder if they just don't like the way it looks. Senior lady has a large family that often comes over, esp. in summer (for pool parties). I have no problem w/her guests parking in front of my house.

188 - Actually, I started keeping notes of the younger woman's weirdness bco of an incident when I left my car parked in front of her house overnight. I parked it there for what I thought would be about a 1/2 hour. I hadn't been feeling well that day and started feeling worse, so I didn't go out again after all that day. The next day, my driver's side mirror was smashed.

horizontal rule
192

I ? public transportation.

horizontal rule
193

I think we've all got a proximity propriety notion somewhere, we just have different thresholds, depending on what we're used to, and what our other social beliefs amount to. Parking attitudes are a clue about social feeling in general.

horizontal rule
194

The next day, my driver's side mirror was smashed.

That's different even from angry notes. You can't be sure it was her, of course, but she might be seriously disturbed. You might have called the police with your suspicions, but they might not have taken it seriously. If you find you've changed your behavior to avoid her spot, so that this violence will have achieved its goals, that's depressing.

horizontal rule
195

194 - I don't know that it was her, and it's hard to think otherwise, so I suppose I should keep an open mind about it. I have changed my behavior in that I have never parked there again, never will and tell visitors not to park there.

Her notes and conversation have not been angry. IANAPsychologist, but her approach strikes me as very passive-aggressive.

horizontal rule
196

I understand, but still wouldn't want to reward that kind of behavior if I believed it was her. Judging from the scene outside the cats in the window, your neighborhood's a bit less dense than mine, but that may be a misleading impression.

horizontal rule
197

196 - The neighborhood is pretty much your average middle class suburban neighborhood. We plan to build a garage shortly (bc the old one's so beat we don't park our cars in it, not bco this lady), so this should be less and less of an issue.

You're right about not rewarding that behavior, but I also don't want to park there and get more damage done. Even though it takes little effort to park elsewhere, it does rankle. The passive-aggressive thing is also very annoying.

horizontal rule
198

I've seen the neighborhood and don't remember much. "Average middle class" sounds about right.
Hi, Annie,

horizontal rule
199

Yeah, suburban neighborhoods can be weird about people parking in the street, period. Freaks.

I don't know what the conventions are in the US; in our street everybody parks as close to their house as they can and if they have to walk 20 metres, that's tough.

Yeah, that's my experience here and it was the same in grad school city. Another vote for cities over everything else: people just accept that they have to fucking share.

horizontal rule
200

Yeah, so, like, yeah. Man.

horizontal rule
201

Annie, you have remarkable restraint. I would be inclined to park in front of her house regularly and deliberately, with a motion-triggered video camera set to watch the car.

horizontal rule
202

198 - Hi, John. I'm tempted to make a joke about how my neighborhood's middle class status took a dip during your stay here, but I'm not coming up with anything.

199 - Yeah, why can't we all just get along?

201 - My husband and I have joked about doing just that: setting up a 'Joanne-cam' to catch her slithering down her driveway under cover of darkness, wielding a vacuum attachment or some household implement of that ilk, and catching her in the act of vandalizing my car.

On that note, I have to go get my nails done.

horizontal rule
203

I've heard of a place in New York with unrestricted parking -- you can park a car and leave it there as long as you want -- where one of the residents unscrewed the license plate from a car that was parked in front of her building, reported it to the police as an abandoned car, and had it towed.

horizontal rule
204

202: It would be funnier if you waited in the car trunk and popped out when you heard glass breaking.

horizontal rule
205

203: The very conservative elderly gentleman who lives around the corner from me was out walking his dog this morning while I was fretting over whose car it was parked in front of my house--because the movers needed to park the truck there. Elderly gent suggested I call the city and have the car towed. I told him that, having had my own car towed a week ago, I wasn't particularly inclined to do that, and that anyway the car wasn't illegally parked.

Luckily, however, the owner of the car, who apparently lives on the next block, had to leave for work 20 minutes later.

horizontal rule
206

Re: Blue Laws

In Massachusetts you can't buy alcohol before noon on Sunday. Until quite recently it was banned completely.

When I was a little kid, the malls were not allowed to open on Sundays except during teh Christmas shopping period just after Thanksgiving.

Unlike, apo, I am currently enamored of teh Blue Laws. Under Massachusetts law, hourly employees have to get paid time and a half on Sundays.

horizontal rule
207

204 - Thing is, my car's old enough that it doesn't have a pop the trunk safety lever inside the trunk. Although it is a hatchback, so I could put the back seat down and crawl out at her that way.

horizontal rule
208

198 - Hi, John. I'm tempted to make a joke about how my neighborhood's middle class status took a dip during your stay here, but I'm not coming up with anything.

How about this:

[joke]
198: Well John, my neighborhood's middle class status sure took a dip during your stay here.

BUUUURN!!!
[/joke]

horizontal rule
209

Blue laws: In Austin you can't buy alcohol after 9 PM Saturday. I found this out the hard way by going to stock up mid-party. Yet this is the same city that has a drive-through liquor store.

Neighbors: We don't have much of a problem with parking conflicts, but we have a HUGE problem with people leaving junk under our bushes and on our curb. People have dumped furniture, broken microwaves, stereo speakers, childrens' toys.. it's insane. We figured it was either because our yard used to be overgrown or because the bushes partially block the view from the street.. but seriously, who sneaks over to their neighbor's house and dumps a microwave in their yard in the dead of night?

horizontal rule
210

if you waited in the car trunk

That gets dull. Buy a trunk monkey.

horizontal rule
211

208 - I was hoping to come up w/something a little more nuanced.

210 - If we ever go through w/the Joanne-cam, we'll go w/the shotgun-toting trunk monkey.

horizontal rule