As any fule kno, there is only one way to address comments to other comments, and that is the Chuck(le) Pelto way.
It even winds his fellow wingnuts up so they repeatedly ban him.
Okay, I'll take a crack at it.
I think that badinage has more flirty overtones. Persiflage, to me at least, suggests the kind of learned wit that's supposed to be light and chock-full of sprezzatura but usually comes off as ponderous. Like William F. Buckley making conversation at a cocktail party, say.
Following 55—if the blog ever finds its way into book form (à la Language Log), it should be a two-parter: Persiflopolis, and Persiflopolis 2, chronicling the oggedian and post-oggedian eras respectively.
56 is right, I think. Persiflage is more straight comedy, light-hearted witty nonsense (think Peter Wimsey). Bandinage is more combative, but more romantic -- it takes two people. One person can provide all the persiflage in a conversation, but bandinage has to describe an exchange between at least two.
I used to read the NYer cover to cover (well, not the poetry) until I read a story with such a glaring plot hole that I stopped regularly reading the short fiction. It was a really awful story, too.
I'm still stuck on what you call someone who engages in either, though. I mean, if persiflage is from persifler, it seems to me that just as flâner:flâneur then so persifler: <insert ac's forbidden word here>.
Ooh, I lovef me some long fs When I waf reading in aeftheticf recently, I realized, while poring over a copy of the workf of the earl of Shaftefbury, that I waf very quietly reading out loud, and I was lifping.
I juƒt meant, I prefer my ƒ, as it looks more ƒcript-like. But to each his own. And thanks for the tip about uƒage.
(Okay, I know I've got to ƒtop this at ƒome point. Lord, grant me ƒenƒe. Juƒt not yet.)
Ack! Another proof that M/tch M/lls is always correct!
ƒpeaking of which, are there people in New York who prefer The New Yorker's front liƒtings to, say, Time Out New York's, or is that ƒection now uƒeleƒs to the whole country?
I'm going to hide out here in this thread so Ideali&402;t won't notice I just called him a poƒeur. I mean, I did it unwittingly, but do you think that matters?
I read them. Well, mostly. If a restaurant or a play gets a positive nod from a New Yorker critic, it definitively means more clout in the CV and press kit.
I have to say, I got a little thrill when I moved to New York and realized that I'd just doubled the value of my weekly New Yorker. A small prize to compensate for my larcenous rent rate!
I mean, I did it unwittingly, but do you think that matters?
No, I will track you down and be pissy and thin skinned wherever you are hiding. Besides, I was in the Federalist Society before it was cool. I'm old school, baby!
Damn, busted. Dude, for what it's worth, like SCMTim I was old school but I changed my mind, man. It remains slightly a mystery to me that you haven't.
107/110 -- is schwa a character used in writing some actual languages (like I guess specifically Old Norse)? Somehow I had got the idea that it was an invention of orthographers. And I guess the schwa with a little tail hanging off it sounds like "er"? What is its name?
Ah. Now I looked on Wikipaedia and I guess you have switched from Old Norse orthography to IPA, from historical to synthetic -- Wikipaedia says: ? = "r-colored vowel" ("?, how did you get so r?"), ? = "near-close near-back rounded vowel". Is my thinking right that these were never used in writing an actual written language?
Whoa, you guys have been Wonketted!
I'm with 112: not enough poon. What gets me is that the fiction editor of the NYer must not be getting enough poon, either, else he'd've (assuming it's a he, since "has a poon" is a subset of "gets poon") caught that one. I mean, what's the point of getting a job at Conde Nast?
115: indeed, these are IPA symbols, which have never been part of the native orthography of any language (as far as I know) but are nevertheless often used for transcription of many actual languages.
116: it was intended to be a broad phonetic transcription, so []. And your Scottish accent (as reflected in your transcription) is at least as funny as my (rhotic) American one.
Heh, we have an American social secretary type at my college who every year emails round prior to Burns' night asking for, and I kid you not, people with 'funny accents' or (and he said this one year) 'Groundskeeper Wullie' accents to read. Funnily enough, he gets no takers.
I presumed from the rhoticised schwa that you had a normal GenAm style accent where rhoticised vowels replace /r/. That's a non-rhotic accent from where I stand!
This comment thread made up somewhat for wasting my time on one of the most boring stories I've ever read. I'm so glad no one expects me to read the New Yorker.
137 -- One easy way to do it would be to copy and paste from any of Teofilo's contributions to this thread, like e.g. 99: "?". There's probably a tidy ampersandy way of doing it, But I know not what.
147: It is indeed ironic that Google was unable to translate the word meaning "translate." And you should be able to figure out what I meant by "in the metal."
If you look up "gullible" in the dictionary, there's a picture of me.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 1:15 PM
But "gullible" isn't in the dictionary!
Posted by M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 1:17 PM
If you look up "gullible" in the dictionary, there's a picture of me
...humping a microfilm machine.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 1:20 PM
I find it hard to believe that 36 was not written by a spambot.
Posted by My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 1:24 PM
Back to the post, perhaps it was such a powerful vibrator that it rattled her placenta to pieces right through the uterine wall?
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 1:31 PM
As any fule kno, there is only one way to address comments to other comments, and that is the Chuck(le) Pelto way.
It even winds his fellow wingnuts up so they repeatedly ban him.
Posted by Anthony | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 1:40 PM
this short story, by Mathew Klam
Posted by permabot | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 2:04 PM
Hey, thanks! The link I posted was clearly going to expire in a week.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 2:14 PM
I thought this was going to be a post about Atul Gawande.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 2:57 PM
Would somebody please answer my highly important questions? At least the vocabulary parts?
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:07 PM
I have never in all my days heard the term "persifleur," and I hope never to encounter it again.
Posted by ac | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:11 PM
Persiflage is the art of making fun of ogged.
Badinage is the art of making: incisive comments!
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:12 PM
Okay, I'll take a crack at it.
I think that badinage has more flirty overtones. Persiflage, to me at least, suggests the kind of learned wit that's supposed to be light and chock-full of sprezzatura but usually comes off as ponderous. Like William F. Buckley making conversation at a cocktail party, say.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:14 PM
Doesn't badinage mean tying your lover up when you sex him/her?
Posted by The Modesto Kid | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:22 PM
Persiflage - bad. Bandinage - good.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:23 PM
Both good.
Posted by I don't pay | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:25 PM
Following 55—if the blog ever finds its way into book form (à la Language Log), it should be a two-parter: Persiflopolis, and Persiflopolis 2, chronicling the oggedian and post-oggedian eras respectively.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:29 PM
56 is right, I think. Persiflage is more straight comedy, light-hearted witty nonsense (think Peter Wimsey). Bandinage is more combative, but more romantic -- it takes two people. One person can provide all the persiflage in a conversation, but bandinage has to describe an exchange between at least two.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:29 PM
A bandinage is what you use to dress a rhetorical wound.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:34 PM
60 - Hmmm...I don't think I like where that comment is going. I don't want to be the protagonist everybody hates!
Posted by Becks | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:43 PM
I used to read the NYer cover to cover (well, not the poetry) until I read a story with such a glaring plot hole that I stopped regularly reading the short fiction. It was a really awful story, too.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:49 PM
62 reminds me of the WaPo neologism contest. My favorite of the top ten:
Flatulence (n.) emergency vehicle that picks you up after you are run over by a steamroller
Posted by Anonymous | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 3:58 PM
I don't want to be the protagonist everybody hates!
Doesn't have to be you. What's Unf up to these days? Taking candy from babies, I bet.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:00 PM
Thank you all. Mostly.
I'm still stuck on what you call someone who engages in either, though. I mean, if persiflage is from persifler, it seems to me that just as flâner:flâneur then so persifler: <insert ac's forbidden word here>.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:13 PM
It's totally badineur and persifleur, although the second one doesn't get around much any more.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:15 PM
A Wit. (Preferably in a Sentence with those inexplicable 18C capital Letters.)
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:22 PM
Persifleur seeks flaneuse for badinage, repartee. No Irish need apply.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:43 PM
Well, drat.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:45 PM
Not to mention thofe almoft unreadable long Ss.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:45 PM
Well done, slol!
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:47 PM
72: Precifely.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:48 PM
You realife, of courfe, that I have no problem with the long S.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:50 PM
Ooh, I lovef me some long fs When I waf reading in aeftheticf recently, I realized, while poring over a copy of the workf of the earl of Shaftefbury, that I waf very quietly reading out loud, and I was lifping.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 4:56 PM
Perfifleur feeks flaneufe.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:01 PM
Waƒ there a rule about which s's got the ƒ treatment and which didn't?
Posted by ƒlolerneur | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:29 PM
My favorite part of Adam Smith's lectures on rhetoric is the ten pages or so where he beats up on Shaftesbury, as, basically, a poser. It's vicious.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:29 PM
78- Yes, all lowercase non-final s's get extended.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:32 PM
ATM.
Posted by apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:32 PM
Really, there'ƒ not much to diƒlike about Adam ƒmith if you can read him without reminding yourƒelf about all the modern poƒeurƒ appropriating him.
Posted by ƒlolerneur | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:33 PM
I ?u?pect you're not doing this right, ?lol.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:35 PM
Chacun à ƒon goût, dude. As Voltaire would say.
Posted by ƒlolerneur | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:40 PM
It's times like the?e I wi?h I ?poke French.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:43 PM
Literally, it's "dirty son of a goat".
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:48 PM
I juƒt meant, I prefer my ƒ, as it looks more ƒcript-like. But to each his own. And thanks for the tip about uƒage.
(Okay, I know I've got to ƒtop this at ƒome point. Lord, grant me ƒenƒe. Juƒt not yet.)
Posted by ƒlolerneur | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:49 PM
Literally, it's "dirty son of a goat".
Ack! Another proof that M/tch M/lls is always correct!
ƒpeaking of which, are there people in New York who prefer The New Yorker's front liƒtings to, say, Time Out New York's, or is that ƒection now uƒeleƒs to the whole country?
Posted by ƒlolerneur | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:52 PM
belong to the Federalist Society
I'm going to hide out here in this thread so Ideali&402;t won't notice I just called him a poƒeur. I mean, I did it unwittingly, but do you think that matters?
Posted by ƒlolerneur | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:56 PM
Ideali&402;t
Okay, when you make a typo you have to give up. I give up.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:59 PM
I read them. Well, mostly. If a restaurant or a play gets a positive nod from a New Yorker critic, it definitively means more clout in the CV and press kit.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 5:59 PM
I read them.
I have to say, I got a little thrill when I moved to New York and realized that I'd just doubled the value of my weekly New Yorker. A small prize to compensate for my larcenous rent rate!
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:01 PM
I'm not making enough money actually to act on most of the recommendations, mind you.
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:04 PM
The thing is, long s isn't just f; it's a different character entirely. I gue?s I'm ju?t a ?tickler, though. Carry on.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:06 PM
I mean, I did it unwittingly, but do you think that matters?
No, I will track you down and be pissy and thin skinned wherever you are hiding. Besides, I was in the Federalist Society before it was cool. I'm old school, baby!
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:07 PM
No, I will track you down
Damn, busted. Dude, for what it's worth, like SCMTim I was old school but I changed my mind, man. It remains slightly a mystery to me that you haven't.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:10 PM
Didja see the razor-sharp dildo that Anthony Perkins wields in Crmes of Passion? THAT would pop a placenta, no doubt...
Posted by matt in eugene | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:10 PM
long s isn't just f
Dude (holy smokes, now I've turned into Spicoli), ƒ isn't "just f" either.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:12 PM
It definitely isn't ?, though. That's all I'm saying.
(Not an Early-Modernist, eh, slol?)
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:16 PM
I must admit I've begun to wonder if it was worth subscribing to the New Yorker at all.
Also, 36 deploys the citation method described in 27.
Posted by eb | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:17 PM
Not an Early-Modernist, eh, slol?
Ooh, busted twice in one thread. I think I must needs retire.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:20 PM
Where is my runic thorn? Whære!
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:22 PM
You mean þis one?
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:26 PM
I'm a fan of the eth: ð
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:37 PM
7 gets it exactly right.
Posted by The Modesto Kid | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:40 PM
Mr. Wolfson: is my understanding correct that "ð" is a voiced "þ"?
Posted by The Modesto Kid | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:42 PM
j? s?? ? ?o?waf, b?n
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:43 PM
106: Yes (in Old Norse--in Old English they're interchangeable).
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:44 PM
þanx
Posted by The Modesto Kid | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:52 PM
j? w?lk?m
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:54 PM
Cleårly, Vikings åre þe pwn.
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:54 PM
Must've been one helluva orgasm if she couldn't decide whether she broke her water or hit the G-Spot.
I'm guessing Matthew Klam doesn't get much of the poon. If he does, I feel sorry for his girlfriends.
Posted by colinsmith | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:56 PM
107/110 -- is schwa a character used in writing some actual languages (like I guess specifically Old Norse)? Somehow I had got the idea that it was an invention of orthographers. And I guess the schwa with a little tail hanging off it sounds like "er"? What is its name?
Posted by The Modesto Kid | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:58 PM
þwned.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 6:58 PM
Ah. Now I looked on Wikipaedia and I guess you have switched from Old Norse orthography to IPA, from historical to synthetic -- Wikipaedia says: ? = "r-colored vowel" ("?, how did you get so r?"), ? = "near-close near-back rounded vowel". Is my thinking right that these were never used in writing an actual written language?
Posted by The Modesto Kid | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:05 PM
re: 108
Usually in Old English, as far as I remember, it's þ at the start of words and ð in the middle (orthographically speaking).
107: You missed the / /'s (or [ ]'s, depending).
/a:m s?? ? smart a:rs, ?lso t?i n?n rot?k aks?nts, lai:k ?n 107 lu:k t?i f?n?/
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:07 PM
a:rs
Fuckin' Brits.
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:16 PM
like SCMTim I was old school but I changed my mind
(Extends black-gloved hand to Idealist)
Join us, and together we can rule the galaxy.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:21 PM
Usually in Old English, as far as I remember, it's þ at the start of words and ð in the middle (orthographically speaking).
If I recall correctly, they're different sounds -- voiced vs. unvoiced.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:24 PM
Join us, and together we can rule the galaxy.
Tempting, but isn't this where you cut off my hand with your light sabre?
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:27 PM
I'm all with the crappy allusions tonight.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:31 PM
120: Only if you turn him down. Come to the Blue side, Ideal!
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:35 PM
119: see 108.
Posted by The Modesto Kid | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:38 PM
Only if you turn him down. Come to the Blue side, Ideal!
Extremely tempting, but for what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?.
Posted by Idealist | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:40 PM
I did, after I'd posted 119, and hoped to hide my pwnédness in oblivion.
Posted by LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 7:41 PM
pwnédness s/b pwnèdness
Posted by The Modesto Kid | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 8:04 PM
for what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Nookie?
Posted by Cala | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 8:24 PM
What?
Posted by ben wolfson | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 8:33 PM
No thanks, I'm fine.
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 8:34 PM
Whoa, you guys have been Wonketted!
I'm with 112: not enough poon. What gets me is that the fiction editor of the NYer must not be getting enough poon, either, else he'd've (assuming it's a he, since "has a poon" is a subset of "gets poon") caught that one. I mean, what's the point of getting a job at Conde Nast?
Posted by sw | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 8:54 PM
There is only one Wonkette, and her name is Ana Marie Cox.
Posted by washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 9:14 PM
That g-spot stuff is such bullshit. They don't exist.
Of course, people who'll believe in an oxymoron like "the female orgasm" will believe anything.
Posted by Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 9:29 PM
115: indeed, these are IPA symbols, which have never been part of the native orthography of any language (as far as I know) but are nevertheless often used for transcription of many actual languages.
116: it was intended to be a broad phonetic transcription, so []. And your Scottish accent (as reflected in your transcription) is at least as funny as my (rhotic) American one.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 9-06 11:56 PM
re: 133
Heh, we have an American social secretary type at my college who every year emails round prior to Burns' night asking for, and I kid you not, people with 'funny accents' or (and he said this one year) 'Groundskeeper Wullie' accents to read. Funnily enough, he gets no takers.
I presumed from the rhoticised schwa that you had a normal GenAm style accent where rhoticised vowels replace /r/. That's a non-rhotic accent from where I stand!
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 4:08 AM
Technically, you're right of course. The American use of a rhoticised schwa is, iirc, classed as 'rhotic'
Posted by Matt McGrattan | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 4:10 AM
This comment thread made up somewhat for wasting my time on one of the most boring stories I've ever read. I'm so glad no one expects me to read the New Yorker.
Posted by asilon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:40 AM
94, 99: Well, yef; when you come up with a fcript that reprodufes the long S, I'll be the firft to ufe it, okay?
132: Oh, ye of little faith.
Posted by bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 10:24 AM
137 -- One easy way to do it would be to copy and paste from any of Teofilo's contributions to this thread, like e.g. 99: "?". There's probably a tidy ampersandy way of doing it, But I know not what.
Posted by The Modesto Kid | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 11:04 AM
As far as I know, there is no html code for ?. There are, however, other ways to insert special characters.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 1:29 PM
Geez, teo.
Apparently, it's ſ or ſ—that is to say, it's ſ or it's ſ
So say Wikipedia.
Posted by slolernr | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 5:26 PM
Well how 'bout that. I had no idea.
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 7:02 PM
??´ œ¨ˆç? ?®ø?˜ ƒø? ?¨µ?ß ø?´® †?´ ¬å?¥ ?ø©
Posted by Â円 „´ˆ˜´® | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 7:36 PM
Does that somehow translate into spam?
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 7:59 PM
????????????
Posted by ??????????????? | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:08 PM
Thanks, Matt. That was totally worth it. Off to call my broker!
Posted by Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:12 PM
!?? ?????? ???? ??????
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 8:16 PM
If it makes you happy, teofilo, Google translates that as: "In the metal Spam Ttrgmk."
Posted by Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:11 PM
142 is "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" typed on a Mac with the Alt key held down.
Posted by explanabot | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:28 PM
(option key, actually, though it also says "Alt" on it)
Posted by explanabot | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:28 PM
131: I met both iterations; the original, definately hotter.
Which is really all that matters.
Posted by Matt F | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 9:43 PM
147: It is indeed ironic that Google was unable to translate the word meaning "translate." And you should be able to figure out what I meant by "in the metal."
Posted by teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-10-06 10:20 PM