Re: Guest Post - Public Choice Theory

1

I haven't read the linked article yet, but I'll add DeLong on Buchanan

You have to be able to hold in your mind two things at once in order to understand economist James M. Buchanan:

(1) He was a total loon: ...
(2) [He was] a man who saw things that other economists did not and would not have without him: . . .

Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:07 AM
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If I ever write a campus satire, it will definitely include a Professor G. Warren Nutter.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:10 AM
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Gaaaaaaaah, such awful people!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:15 AM
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I was exposed to Public Choice Theory in law school, and it put my back all the way up. It's an argument that collective action through governmental means is inherently corrupt and counterproductive, based on very little to no empirical data. I didn't successfully push back very hard at the time, but it bothered the hell out of me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:18 AM
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"But did God use the right math" seems like the kind of question you can't ask if you hold the Nicene Creed.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:19 AM
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True that. "I believe in 1, which is equal to 3." It's right in there.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:31 AM
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I hate public choice theory, but apparently that "Democracy in Chains" book is in fact largely made up and highly misleading. Someone else can find the links, since I don't comment here anymore.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:31 AM
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Halfordismo has similar problems.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:32 AM
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9

I lied. I couldn't resist a link. Here's the review I read.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:35 AM
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10

1: Economist vouches for total loon isn't that difficult to contemplate.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:39 AM
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11

Parkinson's writing is entertaining and thought-provoking. Another book about systems, including social ones, that I like a lot is John Gall's Systemantics

Most of the criticisms and style of critical analysis that I like are criticisms of bureaucracy rather than government per se.
Government bureaucracies have different, often weaker limitations on their growth than do others. The other main way that governments differ from commercial bureaucracies IMO is that companies put some effort into making the most frequent interactions pretty easy. The maze becomes apparent when a good outcome is some nonstandardized action.

The US is not that serious about this, GSA and OPM notwithstanding. Highly baroque bureaucracy accessible in English exists in the EU


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:42 AM
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9 is really good, thanks. I found the Boston Review piece I linked in the OP hysterical in tone, but thought that the linked details were pretty interesting; they were definitely new to me. Maybe I should poke around and see what Buchanan actually wrote about the parable though.

As the review in 9 mentions, being able to identify weaknesses in government behavior, especially systematic ones, is a good thing overall.

Full text of Systemantics


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 11:52 AM
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I was going to find the links for 9 after making my first comment but took a nap instead. I'm objectively less moral than Halford.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 12:03 PM
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14

Since the right people seem to be in this thread, what about William Riker's "heresthetics"? Is that crackpot in the end? I couldn't tell if his elaborate walkthroughs held water, but I haven't had the book in a while.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 12:21 PM
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The Star Trek guy or they guy they made me read in graduate school?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 12:24 PM
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14. First time I have heard of him. This makes him sound interesting as an American historian. But extrapolating general ideas from only 19th century US politics seems off-base.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 1:00 PM
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Is that crackpot in the end?

There's a crackpot at the end of this book! Oh I am so scared. Please do not turn the page.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 1:53 PM
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17 made me laugh.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 2:03 PM
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19

I just got it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 2:53 PM
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20

I had strong (negative) feelings on this theory in grad school. Now I just avoid everyone who advocates for it.


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 4:42 PM
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I have in my possession a long-unread copy of Liberalism Against Populism.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 4:54 PM
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9 is not the half of it. Many here will be predisposed to think reviews by libertarians an unpalatable exercise in motivated reasoning. I share that worry. But after reading several, and the full sources from which NM quotes, I have been convinced that she has done a remarkably shoddy job, and in several cases twisted Buchanan's words to mean the opposite of what he intended. It is possible that some of her criticisms are correct, but I have lost faith that any particular quotation in that book is handled honestly and not tendentiously.


Posted by: WJL | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 8:16 PM
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Expanded version of the link in 9.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 10-31-17 8:44 PM
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24

Further to 9 and 23.


Posted by: Mahmud of Ghazni | Link to this comment | 11- 1-17 7:21 AM
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Rational choice theory, as developed by the political science department at Rochester, and public choice theory are not the same thing. Lately, I have been trying to reread Shapiro and Green's Pathologies of Rational Choice Theory.


Posted by: Robert | Link to this comment | 11- 1-17 9:53 AM
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The other main way that governments differ from commercial bureaucracies IMO is that companies put some effort into making the most frequent interactions pretty easy. The maze becomes apparent when a good outcome is some nonstandardized action.

Filed a health care insurance claim lately?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 1-17 1:38 PM
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I hate Buchanan and everyone who invokes him enough that I'm just going to assume I never heard of this book, rather than find out what's wrong with it.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 1-17 1:43 PM
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17 made me so happy that it inspired me to post here, which I have not done in years, not that I imagine anyone would remember anyway. Bravo!


Posted by: rpm | Link to this comment | 11- 1-17 4:04 PM
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