Re: With Small Apologies To The Russian

1

We like you just fine when you're miserable and blogging, ogged.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:34 PM
horizontal rule
2

The Russian?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:43 PM
horizontal rule
3

That's why I'm not looking to date anyone right now.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:46 PM
horizontal rule
4

Is ogged telling people not to hint at happy relationships as a means to hint at a happy relationship?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:47 PM
horizontal rule
5

Don't go changing to try to please us.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:48 PM
horizontal rule
6

The Russian?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:48 PM
horizontal rule
7

w-lfs-n, surely you've read Anna Karenina.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:48 PM
horizontal rule
8

I have not.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:51 PM
horizontal rule
9

But I have read its opening lines.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:52 PM
horizontal rule
10

Gawd. It's true. Y'all only loved me when I was tragically broken up with.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:52 PM
horizontal rule
11

That's all it takes.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:53 PM
horizontal rule
12

This is, like, a metaphor about the election, right?


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 7:59 PM
horizontal rule
13

Those opening lines aren't at all true. Otherwise, no complaints.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:02 PM
horizontal rule
14

No being happy, Becks!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:04 PM
horizontal rule
15

Which part isn't true?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:04 PM
horizontal rule
16

14 - I'll try my hardest!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:06 PM
horizontal rule
17

the happy families all being alike part. and the unhappy families all being unique, that part too.

s/b:

Some families are similar to each other: among those, some are happy, some or sad. Some families are unique: among those, some are happy, some are sad.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:07 PM
horizontal rule
18

or actually:

Some families are unhappy relative to other families. Some families are relatively happy. No families are unique. All families are unique. Here's a fellow, sleeping on his couch. He's got fine whiskers . . .


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:09 PM
horizontal rule
19

If he needed those first lines in order to write the rest, I don't begrudge him. But they don't actually make sense.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:11 PM
horizontal rule
20

It feels right, though. They've got a certain truthiness to them.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:12 PM
horizontal rule
21

Mine don't make sense either, except in that they limn the no sense making of the other lines.

TEXT RUL3Z TH1S THR34D!11!!!!!!1!!!!1!1


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:13 PM
horizontal rule
22

From whose crap blogging did you glean this?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:13 PM
horizontal rule
23

And what would text like this thread to do, then?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:15 PM
horizontal rule
24

dance, dance, dance


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:16 PM
horizontal rule
25

I believe you mean:

dance, motherfuckers, dance


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:18 PM
horizontal rule
26

A better and more obviously true quote from Tolstoy: "All journalism is an intellectual brothel from which there is no exit."


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:18 PM
horizontal rule
27

Polka?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:18 PM
horizontal rule
28

Left foot in.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:19 PM
horizontal rule
29

25: text is actually naming a novel by Haruki Murakami.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:19 PM
horizontal rule
30

29: And I am actually naming a song by the Violent Femmes.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
31

Tolstoy was a misogynist prick: what did he know about happy relationships?


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:21 PM
horizontal rule
32

I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with this Iranian-Russian nexus - are you guys sharing nuclear secrets?

And AWB is Russian? I thought she had a little Icelandic in her...


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:23 PM
horizontal rule
33

Clearly, Tolstoy knew nothing about anything, which can be easily proven by labeling him a mysoginist. Not only that, I heard Shakespeare was a bigot.

Murakami and The Violent Femmes can each have their due.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:25 PM
horizontal rule
34

"I thought she had a little Icelandic in her..."

Why must you bring Bjork into everything?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:27 PM
horizontal rule
35

David Markson's books are great sources of little revealing facts about the famous dead, like Tolstoy.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:29 PM
horizontal rule
36

Anna Karenina is a fabulous novel.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:29 PM
horizontal rule
37

Literally "all alike" is of course ridiculous.

Jared Diamond's understanding of that sentence, which makes a little more sense, was that to be happy a family has to get a lot of elements right, but screw up just one of them and things can go wrong in many diverse ways.

IIRC, "resemble one another" might be a better translation. Unless I'm mixing it up.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:33 PM
horizontal rule
38

Tolstoy's reputed last words, ostensibly upon being urged to turn to the Orthodox Church: "Even in the valley of the shadow of death, two and two do not make six."


Posted by: susan | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:34 PM
horizontal rule
39

No one has to worry about me on this count.

We should probably be watching the otherwise-most-excellent AWB very closely.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:34 PM
horizontal rule
40

Tolstoy's reputed last words

I thought Tolstoy died alone in a train station?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:35 PM
horizontal rule
41

I thought Tolstoy died alone in a train station?

Yes. In the fundamental attunement, boredom.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:37 PM
horizontal rule
42

Tolstoy was a misogynist prick: what did he know about happy relationships?

In his youth he had lots of fun. Ted Hughes or somebody accused him of wanting to monopolize both the meat and the asceticism, leaving nothing behind for anyone wlae.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:37 PM
horizontal rule
43

"Else"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:38 PM
horizontal rule
44

Tolstoy was a misogynist prick: what did he know about happy relationships?

This is the chickenhawk argument again, no?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:39 PM
horizontal rule
45

I thought Tolstoy died alone in a train station?

He'd still have last words, wouldn't he?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:39 PM
horizontal rule
46

He'd still have last words, wouldn't he?

Not that anyone would have heard.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:39 PM
horizontal rule
47

per wikipedia:
After some restless and aimless wandering he headed for a convent where his sister was the mother superior but had to stop at Astapovo junction. There he was laid up in the stationmaster's house and died on November 7, 1910.


Posted by: susan | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:39 PM
horizontal rule
48

Thomas Mann called him a great moralizing infant.

I know this despite Donald Davidson.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:39 PM
horizontal rule
49

But this makes it sound like he lingered for a while, so maybe.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:40 PM
horizontal rule
50

I am very skeptical of overly clever last words, thus the "reputedly" caveats.


Posted by: susan | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:41 PM
horizontal rule
51

Not that anyone would have heard.

I guess that depends on whether he was alone in the physical sense or the existential sense.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:41 PM
horizontal rule
52

We're agreed, Tolstoy could have had witnessed last words.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:41 PM
horizontal rule
53

Anyway, who's happy, ogged? I demand you name names. It's w-lfs-n, isn't it? Well, we picked up both Houses of Congress, so I can live with that.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:41 PM
horizontal rule
54

I guess that depends on whether he is happy in the physical sense or the existential sense.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:42 PM
horizontal rule
55

For Emerson: bjork beating up a reporter.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:42 PM
horizontal rule
56

Even with "resemble each other" it is patently false. Happy families don't resemble each other any more than sad families (assuming we can really divide families into happy and sad). It's a little canto that sounds nice, and what follows is quite excellent, but it's wrong.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:43 PM
horizontal rule
57

Becks, why o why do you mock me? I thought we were C-64 buddies, with SB.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:43 PM
horizontal rule
58

Not that anyone would have heard.

he was laid up in the stationmaster's house

Ogged, you classist snob, stationmasters have ears.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:43 PM
horizontal rule
59

text, why are you being so uncharacteristically literal?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:44 PM
horizontal rule
60

What exactly happened with the Violent Femmes going all gospel, anyway?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:44 PM
horizontal rule
61

His name isn't pretext any more, Ogged.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:44 PM
horizontal rule
62

56: It's totally true. That's why we find happy people boring and pointless. Well, that and spite.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:44 PM
horizontal rule
63

Damn, it was textualist. I totally fucked that joke up. Ignore me.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:45 PM
horizontal rule
64

Well, the difference is that "resemble each other" doesn't have to be taken absolutely. One can take it to mean "resemble each other in key ways." But yeah, agreeance.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:45 PM
horizontal rule
65

So the literary criticism of the unfoggedetariat is that good stories are irretrievably marred if they're not, in fact, true? Teh lame.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:45 PM
horizontal rule
66

It's worse than the chickenhawk argument. It's the people-with-faults-must-not-have-anything-valuable-to-say argument. Whereas with the chickenhawk argument, at least the fault is directly related to the thing they are saying.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:46 PM
horizontal rule
67

If by "unfoggedetariat" you mean "text" then yes.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:46 PM
horizontal rule
68

Bjerserk indeed.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:46 PM
horizontal rule
69

I thought it was people without faults who were uninteresting.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:47 PM
horizontal rule
70

65: Also, religious teachings must never be interpreted metaphorically. Never, I say!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:48 PM
horizontal rule
71

text: I don't understand ... are you saying Tolstoy wasn't (famously) misogynist?

John: Oh, misogynists can have lots of fun too ... I just don't see what that necessarily has to do with happy relationships.

Anna Karenina *is* a wonderful novel.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:48 PM
horizontal rule
72

57 - I mock to hide my pain that you won't come over and play Jumpman with me.

60 - I actually kinda like "Jesus Walking On The Water"


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:49 PM
horizontal rule
73

No, B, you're taking two different meanings of "true." What I mean is that it is false on its face, untrue in all senses. It is an absolute statement, a proposition, which is false.

I don't think the story is at all marred. The opening line isn't really even a part of the story. It's this little truism that isn't true, is all.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:50 PM
horizontal rule
74

OK, I think I've been guilty once or twice of being obnoxious in the way that ogged is identifying here (i.e., letting it slip out that I'm happily married). And I can recognize that that's repellent and must stop. But as for blogging the darker side of a marriage, it makes a big difference whether you're pseudonymous or not. And also, whether you've been stupid enough to tell your mother about your blog. That's why the sordid truth about my life must remain locked firmly within my wholesome Mr. Rogers persona.

Anyway, ogged is on the right track with his momentary-triumph-acceptable-only-as-prelude-to-further-misery idea, but not all the way there. The longer the oh-I'm-happy blogging goes on, the greater the suspense, and the greater the payoff when the blogger's life explodes into a thousand bitter little pieces. Patience, man. Patience.


Posted by: Chris | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:50 PM
horizontal rule
75

Yeah, I like "Jesus Walking on the Water," too. But you have to admit it was a little incongruous.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:50 PM
horizontal rule
76

Truisms are never true, that's why they're called truisms.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:51 PM
horizontal rule
77

74: A comment so good I want to bronze it. Thank you for promising the darkness. (You must be Irish.)


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:52 PM
horizontal rule
78

I regret taking the handle "textualist." But there is no shedding my identity here. Think of the times we had.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:52 PM
horizontal rule
79

75 - But so was the awesome "Country Death Song"


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:53 PM
horizontal rule
80

Now I'm thinking, I have to go reread Anna Karenina. Is the opening truism meant as a key to the novel, a riff from which the novel develops, or an ironic fillip?

Mark Twain began each chapter of Following the Equator with truisms, many of which were not true, but all of them repeatable.

Henry James said that each novel had a secret motto; maybe Tolstoy should have kept his a secret.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:53 PM
horizontal rule
81

Clearly, "The Incongruous Femmes" would have suited them.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:54 PM
horizontal rule
82

77: Thanks very much. Actually, I would have written more, but my wife just called me away to the living room for kisses and hugs in between checking her email and watching her tv show. God she's wonderful. I'd give her at least one kidney. At least. It's been five glorious years together, and I know this sounds a bit corny, but I really do love and respect her more ever single day.


Posted by: Chris | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:56 PM
horizontal rule
83

Yeah, ogged's right.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:57 PM
horizontal rule
84

Man, you are dark.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:57 PM
horizontal rule
85

"Truisms are never true, that's why they're called truisms."

Truisms are things that are supposed to be self-evident. A truism that is self-evidently false is problematic. Like the above.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:57 PM
horizontal rule
86

I totally want to play Jumpman now. Hrmpf.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:58 PM
horizontal rule
87

The opening lines are critical to the novel.

You read Anna Karenina for recognition. You look for what you share, have in common with Levin/Kitty; and how you differ from Anna/Karenin/Vronsky. This process of empathy/alienation accelerates as the book progresses.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 8:59 PM
horizontal rule
88

Slo, maybe Tolstoy was being ironic or something. I dunno. An excuse for all the unhappiness we're about to witness, as we begin reading.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:02 PM
horizontal rule
89

You should read Anna Karenina, and you should read it in the Pevear-Volokhonsky translation.

I remember that entire Violent Femmes CD as being pretty great. It's old-timey religious in sort of the way that Jenny Lewis' solo CD, which is also great, is old-timey religious.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:06 PM
horizontal rule
90

84: You're only saying that because he's black.


Posted by: Steve | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:08 PM
horizontal rule
91

87 sounds like how pretty much everyone approaches politics, no?

And then there's an election...


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:08 PM
horizontal rule
92

Just catching up. 32: That fucker was HUGE.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:09 PM
horizontal rule
93

Happy familes are all alike. It's just hard to get used to the idea that happiness is vulgar and shallow and that there's no hope, so we pretend that there's some other option.

Now McManus will come along and accuse me of hating all people, as if there was something wrong with that.

Bjork doesn't seem to punch like a girl. I don't have sound, what was the narration?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:09 PM
horizontal rule
94

Have you read both translations, jmcq?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:10 PM
horizontal rule
95

92: You can't just say "HUGE." Are we talking girthy as w-lfs-n's wrist or what?


Posted by: Chris | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:10 PM
horizontal rule
96

Jumpman was awesome.

No one cares why I am right and LB is wrong about the future of the Democratic party, right?


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:12 PM
horizontal rule
97

This makes me think a real life acquaintance of mine--she was this writer who never shut up about how happy her marriage was and in fact wrote a book of poems about how incredibly happy her marriage was, and then, within a month of publication, found out her husband had been sleeping with her best friend and wanted a divorce. Teh schadenfreude! She seemed a lot angrier about the book being undercut than about losing the husband, and really who could blame her? You can get a new husband, but who knows if your new schtick is going to click?


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:12 PM
horizontal rule
98

w-lfs-n's wrists are wee, no? I forget. Maybe they are Paul Bunyany trunks of veiny manliness. If the latter, then yes.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:14 PM
horizontal rule
99

76 is really just completely wrong.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:16 PM
horizontal rule
100

94: I started on the Constance Garnett, but it was too much of a slog. Her translations are old and stiff. Pevear and Volokhonsky's, like all of their translations I've read, is much more vivid and fluid. (David Remnick, I think, did an interesting piece on them not too long ago in the New Yorker.) I haven't read David Magarshack's.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:17 PM
horizontal rule
101

w-lfs-n's wrists are wee, no?

The wrists to me are as wide around as the average man's thigh.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:18 PM
horizontal rule
102

Aww, c.mon. Would anyone not make the choices made by Levin/Kitty? Or make the choices made by Anna/Karenin/Vronsky?

I buy the opening sentences 100 per cent; but am not prepared to say exactly what it is that makes all happy families alike. That is the point.

This novel, IMO, may be the greatest work of art in Western Civilisation.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:19 PM
horizontal rule
103

When P & V's translations of Gogol came out, they got reviewed in The New Criterion by someone who really, really didn't like them. I recall that it ended with a joke about noses.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:19 PM
horizontal rule
104

97: I felt that way about my last relationship. For two and a half years, I complained about his distance, his coldness, his refusal to engage emotionally. The day I decided I didn't care about all that any more and started writing unapologetic analyses of why my boyfriend was the greatest, he dumped my ass.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:20 PM
horizontal rule
105

Somehow, Bob, I had you pegged as more of a Dostoevsky type.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:20 PM
horizontal rule
106

Dean is on the Daily Show.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:22 PM
horizontal rule
107

103: I've come across a couple of reviews by people who just hate those two for some reason. Then again, one of the reviewers seemed deeply insane.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:24 PM
horizontal rule
108

97: Now, see? Ogged would have cut her off after a poem or two, thereby losing the richness and the complexity of the Shadenfreude generated by the collapse of her marriage after an entire book of such poems. It's all about pacing and build-up.

Speaking of which, if 84 is to 82, I was actually only being a little sarcastic.


Posted by: Chris | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:26 PM
horizontal rule
109

Two words: Joyce Maynard.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:28 PM
horizontal rule
110

In case it's unclear, the "them" at the end of the sentence in 103 is supposed to refer to "their translations", not "P & V".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:30 PM
horizontal rule
111

105:Mostly wrong. The Idiot was my first litcrush, but mostly I think Dosty self-indulgent despair.

bhd pegged me last night, alameida put me up front with an entirely appropriate header. My nihilism twinkles.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:31 PM
horizontal rule
112

85: But problematic is good. See the original post.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:32 PM
horizontal rule
113

111: You know, Bob, I was too drunk at that point to really remember the pegging very well. We'll have to do it again sometime. Soon.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:34 PM
horizontal rule
114

85 has nothing to do with nihilism.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:37 PM
horizontal rule
115

And although not certain of Ogged's topic, Firedogglake and Feministe do some great positive blogging. I should think of others.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:39 PM
horizontal rule
116

My nihilism twinkles.

I read this as "My Muslim Twinkies".


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:42 PM
horizontal rule
117

Ogged is just being a foul-weather friend. Don't say you're happy. Don't avoid saying you're happy. Just don't be happy.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:42 PM
horizontal rule
118

Ben, stop oppressing me.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:45 PM
horizontal rule
119

I read the Garnett, and thought it was excellent. I've read--I think it was that New Yorker piece--that the new duo made big improvements in the Dostoevsky, got his variety of styles, or something. I'm sure their Tolstoy is also good.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:47 PM
horizontal rule
120

AWB, we can't forgive you if you don't admit that you're wrong.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:48 PM
horizontal rule
121

116: Funny, "Muslin Twinkie" is ogged's pet name for his cock.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:49 PM
horizontal rule
122

B, stop trolling me.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:49 PM
horizontal rule
123

Aw, c'mon, Text. Don't ruin my fun.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:51 PM
horizontal rule
124

it's unkind to troll trolls. we're not used to the attention.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:52 PM
horizontal rule
125

Here at Unfogged we're all about ruining fun.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:52 PM
horizontal rule
126

No! It's a new day in Amerikkka!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:54 PM
horizontal rule
127

In the interest of a more perfect pedantry, "those two" in 107 could refer to either P & V or their two Gogol translations.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:54 PM
horizontal rule
128

It's a new day in Amerikkka!

And the order of the day is less fun and more marrying dogs. Get to it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:57 PM
horizontal rule
129

120: I hereby renounce my joy and all its minions.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:57 PM
horizontal rule
130

I think the opening lines make sense. When you're happy, you've got a broad, bland world-view. When you're unhappy, you only see your tragic specific circumstances, and through a zoom lens at that.


Posted by: heebie_geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 9:58 PM
horizontal rule
131

128: Can I get a dispensation on the grounds of preexisting sluttiness, albeit of the straight variety?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:02 PM
horizontal rule
132

131: I might be willing to grant you a special dispensation, but first you'd have to provide me with clear and incontrovertible evidence of preexisting sluttiness. See me in office hours.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:05 PM
horizontal rule
133

I'm afraid I can't make office hours. Maybe we can meet in the evening? Someplace quiet?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:09 PM
horizontal rule
134

The laundrymat, say?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:10 PM
horizontal rule
135

(the laundromat, even)


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:11 PM
horizontal rule
136

I liked laundrymat. But if they meet there, teo will just sit in silence, thinking about whether he should say something, and then blog about it.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:13 PM
horizontal rule
137

Do you have any better suggestions, text?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:15 PM
horizontal rule
138

Yeah, but I won't.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:15 PM
horizontal rule
139

all laundromats are the same. but each laundrymat is laundrymatical in its own way.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:15 PM
horizontal rule
140

Harsh, text.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:15 PM
horizontal rule
141

But accurate.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:16 PM
horizontal rule
142

Don't be overdrymatical.


Posted by: heebie_geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:17 PM
horizontal rule
143

Oh dear, I seem to have left my detergent at home.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:18 PM
horizontal rule
144

all people sit in silence in the same way. but those who blog about it blog about it in their own unique ways.

so all is sunny after all!


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:18 PM
horizontal rule
145

143: Wait, what does the detergent represent in this situation?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:22 PM
horizontal rule
146

I think it's a pretext for her borrowing Teo's detergent and leaning over to pick it up all seductively.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:23 PM
horizontal rule
147

An attempt to give Teo something to say.

Darn. No detergent. Whatever shall I do?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:23 PM
horizontal rule
148

psssst--Teo! Here's where you just say whatever comes to mind, provided it isn't creepy.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:26 PM
horizontal rule
149

Excuse me, ma'am, would you like to borrow some of my detergent?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:27 PM
horizontal rule
150

[It's probably not creepy]


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:27 PM
horizontal rule
151

provided it isn't creepy.

Don't freak him out like that.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:28 PM
horizontal rule
152

yes! good!


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:28 PM
horizontal rule
153

Teo! Never call someone you're hitting on "ma'am".


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:28 PM
horizontal rule
154

Especially if it is someone older than you and you don't want to remind them about a questionable age difference.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:29 PM
horizontal rule
155

Now ask the nice lady about the nature of the stains on her clothes.


Posted by: heebie_geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:29 PM
horizontal rule
156

Happiness is selflessness.

Joyce once said something like:"The extraordinary is for journalists, not artists." Tolstoy illuminated the quotidian, with a craft that is almost invisible. I put Tolstoy over Joyce for his accessibility, and for his skill in hiding himself in the novel. For I suspect AK is 100 percent ironic, darker than Dostoevsky's little brain could even imagine.

I like Anne Tyler a lot.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:29 PM
horizontal rule
157

I'm not hitting on her yet.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:29 PM
horizontal rule
158

ah, good point, that. M'lady. Or SnackyCakes.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:29 PM
horizontal rule
159

Don't call anyone you might ever hit on at some point in the future "ma'am".


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:30 PM
horizontal rule
160

There we go. Sure, thanks--I'll have to pay you back. But how?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:30 PM
horizontal rule
161

Actually, I don't think I'm hitting on her at all. Isn't she hitting on me?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:30 PM
horizontal rule
162

153: This is not necessarily true if the person in question is younger than you. Though you are correct here.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:30 PM
horizontal rule
163

But how?

How about a game of cribbage while we wait?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:32 PM
horizontal rule
164

(Becks is right, but we're letting it go on the grounds of cuteness.)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:32 PM
horizontal rule
165

[utter the first fragment that enters your mind--then try to make it sensical--fun! sometimes effective!]


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:32 PM
horizontal rule
166

I don't think I'm hitting on her at all.

Now you see the problem.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:32 PM
horizontal rule
167

162 - Yes, 153 was more refined by 154. Calling someone younger than you or close to your age "ma'am" can be endearing if done in the right tone. But calling someone more than a few years older than you "ma'am" signals "I see you as completely asexual. I may as well make out with my mom."


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:32 PM
horizontal rule
168

This scenario is very confusing. Much of the advice conflicts.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:32 PM
horizontal rule
169

I would love it if, someday, someone calls me SnackyCakes while hitting on me.


Posted by: heebie_geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:33 PM
horizontal rule
170

But calling someone more than a few years older than you "ma'am" signals "I see you as completely asexual. I may as well make out with my mom."

Yes, well, in real life I wouldn't be hitting on someone more than a few years older than me.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:33 PM
horizontal rule
171

I imagined him saying "ma'am" in a "I've come to root around in your pipes, and find out what's clogging them, ma'am" kinda way.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:34 PM
horizontal rule
172

I imagined him saying "ma'am" in a "I've come to root around in your pipes, and find out what's clogging them, ma'am" kinda way.

Is this good or bad?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:34 PM
horizontal rule
173

Okay, I think that the ma'am + cribbage combo has revealed our problem. Teo, you need to see *me* during office hours.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:34 PM
horizontal rule
174

172 - Good. Very good.

And since he drives a truck, he could probably pull it off.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:35 PM
horizontal rule
175

Let it be known that I would not actually use the words "ma'am" and "cribbage" when trying to pick someone up.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:35 PM
horizontal rule
176

I'm not hitting on her.

I think "flirting" is what you would want to be doing. "Hitting on" reeks of too much of A Night at the Roxbury.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:35 PM
horizontal rule
177

of


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:36 PM
horizontal rule
178

174: Make up your mind, dammit.

176: Exactly.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:36 PM
horizontal rule
179

Ye gods, not to mention 170/175! I believe my predatory and dessicated corpse has suddenly remembered a very pressing appointment! To buy a washing machine and drier so that I need never, ever return to this laundromat again.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:37 PM
horizontal rule
180

Make up your mind, dammit.

We women can be fickle creatures.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:37 PM
horizontal rule
181

"This scenario is very confusing. Much of the advice conflicts."

It's like that show, Herman's Head. Only with more zany.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:38 PM
horizontal rule
182

And I thought Teo chose cribbage solely for the "pegging" possibilities...


Posted by: Oztk | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:38 PM
horizontal rule
183

Just saying that if the "ma'am" is delivered in a workable "hey there, little lady" tone it could be salvaged as seductive. If said overly polite, you've got no shot.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:39 PM
horizontal rule
184

I'm not saying women older than me are not teh hott, just that I don't see myself flirting with them in laundromats.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:39 PM
horizontal rule
185

I believe most hitting on can be done with a very fixed, but gentle eye contact.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:39 PM
horizontal rule
186

Just saying that if the "ma'am" is delivered in a workable "hey there, little lady" tone it could be salvaged as seductive.

Uh, what?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:41 PM
horizontal rule
187

Don't listen to anyone else here, Teo. Stick with me. You did fine, only next time, don't say anything you said this time.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:41 PM
horizontal rule
188

I believe most hitting on can be done with a very fixed, but gentle eye contact.

This is actually a problem too.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:41 PM
horizontal rule
189

187: Got it.

Also, 182 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:42 PM
horizontal rule
190

Also, tip your hat as you deliver the "ma'am". It's a nice touch that'll put a run in her stockings.


Posted by: heebie_geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:43 PM
horizontal rule
191

I'm really tired after getting no sleep last night and if I keep commenting in this deluded state will likely confuse Teo to the point that he gives up on women altogether. I know what I mean but should probably STFU until I get a good night's sleep lest I complicate matters more.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:43 PM
horizontal rule
192

just that I don't see myself flirting with them in laundromats.

Ah, you're missing out. Just keep in mind that flirting doesn't have to really go anywhere; knowing that might make it easier; less pressure.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:44 PM
horizontal rule
193

Although I will say 190 is right. I'm sure Smasher could give you tips on the fine art of ma'am-ing.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:44 PM
horizontal rule
194

I think I understand what Becks is saying actually. You mean handymen are teh hott, right?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:44 PM
horizontal rule
195

188: Someone once suggested I look at the spot right between people's eyes, rather than directly into the pupils. It seems a bit disingenuous, but I've since transitioned into more-direct and -sincere eye contact. Not sure if this is good advice or not, but there it is.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:45 PM
horizontal rule
196

Ignore my overenthusiastic semicolon usage.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:45 PM
horizontal rule
197

190: Thanks for the tip, SnackyCakes.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:45 PM
horizontal rule
198

194 - More that we uptight, liberal East-coast types have a soft spot for a certain type of Southern/Western charm.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:46 PM
horizontal rule
199

Just keep in mind that flirting doesn't have to really go anywhere; knowing that might make it easier; less pressure.

I've actually got this part down okay; it's the next step that's the problem.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:46 PM
horizontal rule
200

198: Sounds about the same. Chivalry, etc.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:47 PM
horizontal rule
201

195: That sounds like pretty useful advice. Thanks.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:48 PM
horizontal rule
202

The thing is, you have to follow the leads you're given. If they're like really broad and obvious, the invitation is to the game of We Are Flirting in a Silly and Obvious Way, Ha Ha. You mustn't hold back when someone is throwing themselves at you, it makes the other person feel foolish.

Luckily, we old people have leathery skin.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:48 PM
horizontal rule
203

Re: ma'am, the point is to use it a way that doesn't sound diminutive. Self-confident politeness, rather than schoolboy deference.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:48 PM
horizontal rule
204

You had me at SnackyCakes. *bats eyes*


Posted by: heebie_geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:49 PM
horizontal rule
205

The thing is, you have to follow the leads you're given.

Yeah, I get this, but I can never figure out what they are.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:49 PM
horizontal rule
206

203 - Exactly! That's what I've been inarticulately trying to say.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:50 PM
horizontal rule
207

it's the next step that's the problem.

Clearly, then, you should go for broke. In place of "ma'am" and "cribbage," try "sugarwalls" and "shagging."


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:50 PM
horizontal rule
208

206: That's pretty much what I was going for in the first place. Tone doesn't come across well on the internets.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:51 PM
horizontal rule
209

202 is quite sound advice. Coyness is sometimes good, but not with slutty women.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:51 PM
horizontal rule
210

I think I need to meet some slutty women.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:52 PM
horizontal rule
211

209 - So, upon meeting a woman you find attractive, you should immediately ask "Are you slutty?" to figure out the best approach.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:53 PM
horizontal rule
212

194: Not so much that, but that it's an obviously playful kind of thing to do. Using archetypal roles while flirting can be like puncturing nerves before public speaking by announcing "I'm really nervous"--a kind of invitation to giggle with recognition, and then plow on ahead anyway.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:53 PM
horizontal rule
213

"Yeah, I get this, but I can never figure out what they are."

Ah, there's no easy solution for this. When you feel more confident, you pick up on things more. But then maybe you're deluding yourself sometimes. Muddle along. We all look foolish from time to time.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:54 PM
horizontal rule
214

211: Sometimes I wonder if you really have my best interests in mind, Becks.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:54 PM
horizontal rule
215

"Whoops, I left my detergent at home."
"Excuse me, ma'am. Are you slutty?"
"Um...just dirty?"


Posted by: heebie_geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:55 PM
horizontal rule
216

214 - I always have your best interests in mind, dear Teo. But I also can't resist the sweetness of low hanging fruit.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:55 PM
horizontal rule
217

"Well I've got some detergent right here."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:55 PM
horizontal rule
218

Right, so we're back on track.

Yay, detergent! Thanks so much, I just *hate* the idea of walking all the way back to my apartment all alone in the dark. Oh no, but now I'm using your detergent, and that's not nice--you have to let me pay you back. Have you had dinner?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:57 PM
horizontal rule
219

213 doesn't sound upbeat enough. Try it this way: people often get the signals wrong. But you try to get them anyway! Because when you pick up on them correctly, that's a fine time. And if you were wrong, that's embarassing, but only for a moment. Then you've got a funny story. ha ha! It was a baby she was making faces at, not me!


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:58 PM
horizontal rule
220

219: Exactly. "There I was, flirting with this cutie in the laundromat, and he called me ma'am! I almost died! I've absolutely got to stop flirting with undergrads, I'm going to go directly to hell!"


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:59 PM
horizontal rule
221

Have you had dinner?

No. Would you like to grab a bite?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 10:59 PM
horizontal rule
222

Darn. No detergent. Whatever shall I do?

I can't leave you people alone, can I?

"Dirty's not so bad. [Pause, smile, offering] You're welcome to mine."

Come on.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:00 PM
horizontal rule
223

And if you were wrong, that's embarassing, but only for a moment.

You know, text, in some ways you and I are very different people.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:00 PM
horizontal rule
224

Yeah, I get this, but I can never figure out what they are.

Just go by how easy it is to engage the other person in conversation (not how easy it is to come up with something to say--that's a different issue). It shouldn't be a situation where one person is only passively reacting to what the other person is saying, rather than being actively involved. If it is, that's a "no flirting" sign; if it isn't, carry on.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:02 PM
horizontal rule
225

no, ogged, you can't just feed him the lines. that's no kind of learning experience.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:02 PM
horizontal rule
226

Ogged is the superior teacher. Maybe you should be macking on him, Teo.

Back to the flirting. Well, I left some really nice coq au vin simmering at home, actually, and was going to have that after I'm done here--do you eat meat?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:02 PM
horizontal rule
227

Dear lord. This place gets *so* weird after hours.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:03 PM
horizontal rule
228

I think Matt F is the superior teacher. You should rope him into playing wingman for you when you visit D.C.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:03 PM
horizontal rule
229

Well, teo, we may be less different than you think. I am, after all, commenting on a blog. What you need is a group that actively demands embarrassing stories from you. That will be us. Hence, no failure. whaddya say?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:05 PM
horizontal rule
230

228: That really would be the blind leading the blind. It would make for a pretty hilarious evening, though.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:06 PM
horizontal rule
231

Right now, what you should do, is e-mail B. She's not one of the coy ones.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:06 PM
horizontal rule
232

Well, I left some really nice coq au vin simmering at home

And then you say, "Heh. You said 'coq'."


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:06 PM
horizontal rule
233

"I've come to root around in your pipes, and find out what's clogging them, ma'am"

"Hey, you're not my regular Intertube repairman. . .

Ooom-chukka-Wow-wow


Posted by: Dr Paisley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:07 PM
horizontal rule
234

whaddya say?

I'll think about it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:07 PM
horizontal rule
235

I recommend ignoring b. Also, "How about a game of cribbage while we wait?" should be "May I entreat my lady to play at whist?".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:08 PM
horizontal rule
236

You should listen to w-lfs-n; he's having sex right now.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:08 PM
horizontal rule
237

Right now, what you should do, is e-mail B. She's not one of the coy ones.

Unfortunately she's way the hell and gone on the other side of the country.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:08 PM
horizontal rule
238

236 - Right now. As he's commenting.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:09 PM
horizontal rule
239

Well, I left some really nice coq au vin simmering at home, actually, and was going to have that after I'm done here--do you eat meat?

I'm a lacto-ovo-tube steak-vegetarian.

In America, of course, it's extremely unlikely that what you were cooking might accurately be called "coq au vin", given the nature of the poultry on offer.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:10 PM
horizontal rule
240

"May I entreat my lady to play at whist?"

That only works if you can see a cape in her laundry basket, or other clear evidence of SCA membership.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:11 PM
horizontal rule
241

I think I'll let Ben take it from here.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:11 PM
horizontal rule
242

I've heard some weird Unfogged-related stories but never of someone commenting while actively engaged in sex. I almost want to say someone should go for it but, as that still likely wouldn't rate in the top 5 weirdest site moments, I don't know if it's really worth cheerleading.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:11 PM
horizontal rule
243

Oh noes, dissed twice in the same thread! The new Amerikkka sucks.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:12 PM
horizontal rule
244

240: it's from Achewood, but the site is down and I doubt I could have found the particular strip in the archive in a timely fashion anyway.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:13 PM
horizontal rule
245

Becks, I'm off to sleep momentarily, but honestly have we really had five moments weirder than Ben having sexual intercourse?


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:13 PM
horizontal rule
246

that still likely wouldn't rate in the top 5 weirdest site moments

It wouldn't? What the hell did you people get up to over the summer?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:14 PM
horizontal rule
247

In the new Amerikkka everyone must emulate Achewood at all times.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:14 PM
horizontal rule
248

I said weirder than someone having sex while commenting. Not Ben having sex while commenting. Or Ben having sex.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:15 PM
horizontal rule
249

as that still likely wouldn't rate in the top 5 weirdest site moments, I don't know if it's really worth cheerleading.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, Becks. Cheer away.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:15 PM
horizontal rule
250

Labs is, as ever, funnier than I am.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:15 PM
horizontal rule
251

The reason b isn't commenting at the moment is that she's blowing me as I type. (NB I didn't write "the reason ... is because", and neither should you.)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:16 PM
horizontal rule
252

Becks, I demand your top 5 weird unfogged moments.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:16 PM
horizontal rule
253

Hey, "huh hebun ib behawb" ib hunking *I* hey!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:20 PM
horizontal rule
254

We've just had two out of five, fersho.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:22 PM
horizontal rule
255

Get back down there.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:22 PM
horizontal rule
256

All right, goddamnit, give me the keyboard. "The reason is because" is something *I* say. Mocking women while they're sucking your cock is not the way to a return engagement.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:25 PM
horizontal rule
257

Are you taking notes, teo?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:26 PM
horizontal rule
258

You shouldn't say "the reason is because". For one thing, it makes absolutely no sense. Or rather, there is one interpretation on which it makes sense, but no one ever means that.

The interpretation would apply in something like the following case. Suppose someone said "The reason for the layoffs is that we're losing cash like nobody's business. Now, the reason [ie, the loss of cash] is, because management is incompetent"—ie, the reason is, exists, for the following reason.

But, as I said, no one ever means that.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:29 PM
horizontal rule
259

Definitely.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:30 PM
horizontal rule
260

I say it because it amuses me. Which is more than I can say for that blow job.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:30 PM
horizontal rule
261

But, as I said, no one ever means that.

People don't always mean to convey the literal meaning of their words? I'm shocked, shocked!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:32 PM
horizontal rule
262

I think you say that you say it because it amuses you because you know it's wrong but it's a habit you're in, got in because you thought it was right. I doubt highly that it actually amuses you. Even if it does amuse you, the vast majority of its utterers, I'm sure, are not as sophisticated as you are, and you shouldn't encourage them.

Which is more than I can say for that blow job.

That makes two of us, more's the pity.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:33 PM
horizontal rule
263

Now, the reason [ie, the loss of cash] is, because management is incompetent"

That's a shitty construction that doesn't even have the virtue of being playful. Subject verb comma? One would say "The reason is that."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:34 PM
horizontal rule
264

You know who shouldn't get to make authoritative pronouncements about grammar? Philosophers.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:35 PM
horizontal rule
265

Er, "subject verb comma" happens all the time. Eg, "It's raining, so I stayed indoors". "Fire exists, so be careful!". In this case, however, the comma was meant to indicate a pause in speech, because if what one meant is what I described, one would probably pause there. If you think about it for a moment you'll see that you're wrong and I'm right.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:37 PM
horizontal rule
266

Don't tell me, teo, that you don't cringe when you here someone say "the reason is because".

Addendum to 265: saying, in the sentence quoted in 263, "the reason is that" would change what it means.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:38 PM
horizontal rule
267

I'm not sure what playfulness inheres in "the reason is because" unless it's one that derives from its not making sense.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:39 PM
horizontal rule
268

I do NOT think that "the reason is because" is grammatically correct, jesus christ. Nor "because why," for the record. Nor any of the other verbal tics I exaggerate on purpose to yank your pedantic chain, Mr. w-lfs-n. And I'm not encouraging anyone. I deliberately write in a colloquial and highly informal voice unless I'm annoyed, if you haven't noticed. It entertains me to do so.

Also, piss off.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:40 PM
horizontal rule
269

Finally (for now), I'm pronouncing not qua philosopher (because, as Schlegel observes, one can only become a philosopher, never be a philosopher), but qua little bitch.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:40 PM
horizontal rule
270

I do not in fact cringe when I hear that. I may even say it myself; I can't say I've ever paid close enough attention to notice.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:40 PM
horizontal rule
271

Indeed.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:41 PM
horizontal rule
272

So, how about that coq au vin?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:42 PM
horizontal rule
273

That? Sorry, I already threw it at w-lfs-n's head. Still interested in picking something up somewhere?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:44 PM
horizontal rule
274

teo is descriptive, I think.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:45 PM
horizontal rule
275

you don't cringe when you here someone say

Thanks, Ben.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:46 PM
horizontal rule
276

Still interested in picking something up somewhere?

Eh, most places are probably closed at this hour. Maybe another time.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:46 PM
horizontal rule
277

teo is descriptive, I think.

I am indeed. Have you started that book?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:47 PM
horizontal rule
278

277: I have. This week, though, it's been bumped by Obama's new book, about which I'm supposed to write a response of some sort. Regardless, I like both books so far.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:49 PM
horizontal rule
279

The words understand themselves better than those who use them.

But you're on record as agreeing with me regarding "reason is because", Persia boy.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:50 PM
horizontal rule
280

The words understand themselves better than those who use them.

What does this even mean?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:51 PM
horizontal rule
281

280: Ask Friedrich Schlegel. It's from the perhaps appropriately titled piece "On Incomprehensibility". (Here, though, what it means is because I'm lamenting the inevitable mistake one makes in the midst of a righteous jeremiad about others' mistakes.)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:53 PM
horizontal rule
282

This is a good thread, but it needed more pie.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11- 8-06 11:56 PM
horizontal rule
283

282: It had Muslim Twinkies. Are you not sated?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 9-06 12:00 AM
horizontal rule
284

If I were sated by this thread I would, according to the thread itself, be boring.
I am not boring.
[Is there html for the three dot/quod erat demonstratum thingy?]I am not sated.

And really, how could anyone be sated if they don't know who won that game of cribbage?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11- 9-06 12:16 AM
horizontal rule
285

(∴)


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 9-06 12:21 AM
horizontal rule
286

(∴)

Hilarity.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 9-06 1:22 AM
horizontal rule
287

So I should lay off the adorable-children blogging. Got it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 9-06 9:21 AM
horizontal rule
288

Wow, you weren't kidding about the html.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11- 9-06 9:53 AM
horizontal rule