Re: From Mcmc to Jesus McQueen to me.

1

It's the mouseovers that preoccupied me.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 7:59 PM
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Yeah, the mouseovers are great.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:02 PM
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Jefferson's got to be rolling in his grave, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:02 PM
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Witt, please note that:

a) They spelled "Paine" wrong.
b) The godly "business woman" doesn't get a blurb.
c) The black soldier is named "King" to honor Martin Luther King who... is not present, because he's less of an honor to both Jesus and America than Christie McAuliffe.
d) The (black) college student has a copy of The Five Thousand Year Leap, Glenn Beck's current fixation, which got the author in dutch with Brigham Young University for being too wingnutty.

It's a cornucopia of delights!


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:04 PM
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Jesus also hates Detroit, apparently.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:05 PM
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Why do you hate Christa McAuliffe, snark?

(I noticed the "handicap child," myself.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:06 PM
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I should note that the subject line of my email to HG was "Komar and Melamid can suck it."


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:07 PM
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The black college student on the lower left:

He is holding some books under his arm. This book on the top is I believe the most important book written of why America is so great and how it has influenced the world. It's called "The Five Thousand Year Leap" by Cleon Skousen.

That's the book that changed Glenn Beck's life.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:08 PM
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So very pwned.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:09 PM
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Why do you hate Christa McAuliffe, snark?

Her jokes aren't nearly as funny as Helen Keller's.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:09 PM
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NEED ANOTHER SIMPLIFIED ALPHABET


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:09 PM
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Please tell me that the post title is a Real Genius reference.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:10 PM
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Wow, I didn't notice the mouseovers the first time this was linked. 5TYL: awesome. Also how they demonstrate American Indians to be fundamentally USian by mentioning the attempt at Sequoyah statehood.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:12 PM
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Also, Jesus is about to crush Madison v. Madbury beneath his feet. Take that, judicial review!


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:16 PM
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It's interesting to me that both Abigail Adams and John F. Kennedy receive such laudatory write-ups.

This kind of reminds me of the guy who does the really, really violent and brutal post-9/11 paintings. I can't remember his name, but I came across one in a store window and was just dumbstruck. Basically it was Sept. 11 re-imagined as a heroic sword battle with extremely macho men. (I'm making it sound nicer than it was. It came across to me as seriously jingoistic and creepy.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:17 PM
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Someone should tell that pregnant woman that it's not polite to point.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:17 PM
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Jesus gonna romp on some Kelo, man.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:19 PM
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I like the symbolism of the handicapped child who wouldn't be symbolic without the explanatory text to tell you because he's not visibly handicapped.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:19 PM
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Anybody see that new sitcom that's all about the judge and pregnant lady and they're all stupid and whatever? Good show.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:20 PM
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I'd like to know which of the fifty stars are the bright ones, and which are lagging. I mean, I can guess, but that doesn't seem appropriate in this circumstance.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:22 PM
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I like:

Fifty Stars: Represents the fifty states of the Union. Some stars shine brighter than others.

Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:23 PM
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Shit. Sifupwned.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:23 PM
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Why is the WWI soldier a midget?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:23 PM
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I think Lincoln is supposed to be singing.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:25 PM
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Does the Supreme Court Justice have six fingers on his left hand? Is that symbolism?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:25 PM
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24: "Mammy!"


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:26 PM
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I just found Satan. He's like Waldo or Goldbug.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:26 PM
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Reading all of these comments makes my pain at not being able to get the picture to load all the worse.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:27 PM
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25: Hello. My name is Jesu Cristo. You killed my father. Prepare to die.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:27 PM
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Where's John Birch, anyhow?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:28 PM
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Whoa, those are some tendentious readings of the Supreme Court cases on interstate commerce and judicial review. It's funny; stuff like this veers so fast from things I basically agree with to ones that just leave you wondering if the person who wrote them has any idea what kind of consequences their preferred interpretation would have.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:28 PM
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I think Lincoln is supposed to be singing.

Adams and Hamilton are dancing like his backup singers.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:29 PM
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Whoa, those are some tendentious readings of the Supreme Court cases on interstate commerce and judicial review.

I must say, "tendentious" is pretty far down the list of adjectives I would have applied to that painting.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:30 PM
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Also I like the look of shock on the immigrant when he realizes he's been missing out on all the Jesus. Which immigrants are our non-Christian ones?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:30 PM
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34: the Mexican catholic immigrants are high-fiving behind Dolly Madison.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:31 PM
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I think it's great. The whole painting perfectly symbolizes right-wing love/hatred for America. Nobody loves it more. Nobody hates it more.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:31 PM
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They can't spell 'separationist' right. I won the 4th grade eastern MO spelling bee on the word 'separate'.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:34 PM
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37: I won my school bee in 4th grade on "separate"! God, spelling bees. That was as bad as life ever got.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:37 PM
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He's really scraping the bottom of the barrel for Founding Fathers, isn't he? I mean, Robert Livingston?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:40 PM
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Wouldn't it have been embarrassing if Franklin and Crockett had both worn their coonskin caps?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:42 PM
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Frederick Douglas [sic] doesn't look too pleased at being in the very back, behind Crockett.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:43 PM
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Why is the pregnant woman who wants to keep her baby in there with the godless liberals?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:44 PM
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The Civil War soldier clearly has his hands over his face (thanks for asking) because he's just taken a shit in his pants.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:46 PM
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Server absolutely refuses to give up the page. Or the domain, even.

max
['It's a plot.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:47 PM
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42: Because she has to get an abortion, apparently at month 8. She doesn't want to, but they're making her.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:48 PM
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Keep trying. It's worth the wait.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:48 PM
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44: Yes, it loaded very slowly for me too. But it did eventually (~2 min.) load.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:49 PM
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Because she has to get an abortion, apparently at month 8. She doesn't want to, but they're making her.

Can't SuperJesus do anything to stop them?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:49 PM
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Not if smug Professor has anything to say about it. Hollywood guy is going to make a movie, and Chuck Schumer will just talk into his phone. It's how we roll.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:51 PM
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49: I see. Clearly Christianity is doomed.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:53 PM
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I mean, how can all those soldiers possibly compete with movies and phones?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:56 PM
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Entire URL doesn't load for me. I assume "McNaughton" is mcMc herself. Congratulations on all the praise!


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:57 PM
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This page is maddeningly slow to load. Maddeningly, I tell you.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:58 PM
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The damn thing must suck up huge amounts of bandwidth, and I bet his server isn't used to this kind of traffic.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 8:59 PM
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It loaded. Holy. Shit.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:00 PM
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I love the ambiguity of the lighting in the Supreme Court Building and the Capitol. Are they illuminated by the holy light...or have they been set ablaze?

Also, I don't which is more awesome, the lawyer or the mouseover disclaimer about the representation of the lawyer.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:04 PM
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Is the little boy pointing to the Establishment Clause?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:08 PM
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You know the coolest, most heartening aspect of this whole painting? It really is the genuine, matter-of-fact praise given to characters like Susan B. Anthony. I mean, can anyone doubt that the artist would have been furiously opposed to her philosophy and actions had he lived during her era?

And yet, time marches on, and here we are, with this cockamamie idea of women as equal human beings, and it's gained enough currency in mainstream American thought that you have to pay respects to it. Even if you also believe a lot of other problematic stuff about why women are on the planet.

Really, it gladdens the spirit. Now I'm fantasizing about which of today's hysterically waged culture battles are going to be taken for granted in a hundred years.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:11 PM
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46, 47: 44: Yes, it loaded very slowly for me too. But it did eventually (~2 min.) load.

The server wasn't even talking to me, so the browser would just time out. However, I fished up the Google cache (and me not even knowing the title!) for it, and that eventually loaded. Google-cached version of 'One Nation Under God?' @ www.mcnaughtonart.com at this link.

max
['Woo.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:13 PM
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56.1: "Many of the windows are black or dimly lit to represent the waning of the cause of liberty among many of the elected officials and appointed judges in our country."

From an interview with the painter.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:15 PM
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I note that the J-man is donning a cummerbund. He must be headed to the Washington National Opera!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:19 PM
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58: mean, can anyone doubt that the artist would have been furiously opposed to her philosophy and actions had he lived during her era?

Given that the artist left out Lafayette (while including lots of other Revolutionary War figures), Jackson, Polk, Cleveland, McKinley, Wilson, FDR, Truman (or in fact, everyone between Teddy and Ike), LBJ, Nixon, Clinton and both Bushes, but includes JFK (?), Ike and Reagan, I am guessing this ... 'painting' could be titled 'The Neo-Conservative's Lament'.

max
['I upcased that C because it just don't look right otherwise!']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:20 PM
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63

The schoolteacher is very Palinesque. Where are all the guns, though? This painting would be much more patriotic with lots of guns.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:20 PM
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Jesus would definitely dress formally to the opera. So as not to insult all the poorer people who try their hardest to dress for the opera.

The link in 59 worked, except that there aren't any images, just words.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:21 PM
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Speaking of Polk, since when is he on the dollar coins? I got some in change today at the movie ticket vending machine.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:22 PM
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63: In the interview he describes her as a "Latino[sic] Elementary School teacher". (Ah, maybe it is the school that is Latino.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:24 PM
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Alexander Hamilton has a look on his face like, "Oh, look, Satan's here. I can't believe he knew about this party. Who told him? Don't say hi to me don't say hi to me."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:24 PM
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64: The link in 59 worked, except that there aren't any images, just words.

The cache ALSO takes a long time to load. But it did eventually load for me.

Also, the scumbag politician sures does look like John McCain.

max
['So, not a neo-conservative opinion leader.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:26 PM
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I would click on the link for the interview, but I fear not being able to load the picture again. I can't stop looking at it! It's the very bestest picture ever.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:27 PM
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Where are all the guns, though? This painting would be much more patriotic with lots of guns.

You don't need guns when you've got Jesus. He's got powers. He can blast a fig tree by just thinking.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:29 PM
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ALL RIGHT IT FINALLY LOADED!

Man, it really is worth the wait. Apparently Congress having the power to regulate interstate commerce (Gibbons vs Ogden) is as bad as Roe vs Wade. Who would have guessed!

I am sad that business woman does not get a caption. He could have at least talked about her nice highlights.


Posted by: winna | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:37 PM
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You don't need guns when you've got Jesus.

And soldiers. Lots of soldiers.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:37 PM
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The painting makes me hurt.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:39 PM
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Business Woman seems to have only four fingers on her right hand.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:42 PM
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74: The other was stolen by the evil supreme court justice. See 25 above.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:47 PM
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Also, lawyers are now all less than 25, and good God, what did that liberal reporter do to her hair? Jimmy Johnson would kill to have hair that bad. And the Professor is clearly an aging hipster (look at the glasses!), and apparently pregnant women are ON THE WRONG SIDE.

max
['Family doctors like grunge. Who knew?']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:47 PM
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Business Woman seems to have only four fingers on her right hand.

That just balances the six fingers on the Supreme Court Justice. Conservatives are strong believers in the Law of Conservation of Fingers.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:47 PM
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Besides the fact that Jesus is clearly just back for opening a James Brown show circa 1973, did anybody notice the tree on his vest? Someone is a Kabbalist.

max
['How very.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:48 PM
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Said of Mr. Hollywood: "He looks down at the judge and pregnant woman with ridicule and amusement."

Is that true? Hollywood mocks pregnant women and judges? If judges are bad, and Hollywood is mocking judges, does that make Hollywood good? But Hollywood is also mocking pregnant women, which are good, right?

I don't know who's on my side anymore.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:54 PM
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Why is the pregnant woman who wants to keep her baby in there with the godless liberals?

Where the hell is her husband, that's why.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:55 PM
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I don't know who's on my side anymore.

Not nosflow's for starters.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:56 PM
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82

Oh wait! I misread that. Uh, nevermind.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:57 PM
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79: I think one problem with Mr. Hollywood is supposed to be that instead of scorning people, he makes money off them. He's not doing satire, just jokes. Some of the most anti-gay people I've ever met hate the same TV and movies I hate for ridiculing gays. For me, it's disrespectful of human life. For them, it's trivializing evil.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:57 PM
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Is that true? Hollywood mocks pregnant women and judges? If judges are bad, and Hollywood is mocking judges, does that make Hollywood good? But Hollywood is also mocking pregnant women, which are good, right?

No, you see, there's real-life judges, which are bad because they are activist, and then there's the platonic ideal of justice, which is represented by a judge.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 9:59 PM
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Besides the fact that Jesus is clearly just back for opening a James Brown show circa 1973, did anybody notice the tree on his vest? Someone is a Kabbalist.

There's a mouseover about it. Also the Hebrew on his cummerbund.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:02 PM
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86

The prominence of Christa McAuliffe just kills me. Hey Eisenhower, move on back! We got a goddamn space hero here.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:02 PM
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I for one am surprised to learn that James Madison is often referred to as "The Bill of Rights". But I like it!

Abe Lincoln bears an unexpected resemblance to Hugh Jackman in the godawful song-and-dance number at this year's Oscars. Clearly he kicked up some dust when he dropped down and slid across the stage like that for the big finale.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:07 PM
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85: There's a mouseover about it. Also the Hebrew on his cummerbund.

Well, yeah; reading the mouseover is what tells me he's a Kabbalist. I just find it slightly odd. The dude's probably a fucking Mason or something.

Also, the model for the 'WWII, Korean war and Vietnam war soldiers' figure is Mark Hamill from when he was in The Big Red One (picture at link).

max
['Weird weird weird.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:13 PM
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The site still isn't loading for me, but the comments here remind me an awful lot of Erastus Salisbury Field's 9 by 13 foot Historical Monument of the American Republic (also). Despite this heroic effort, Erastus Salisbury Field's greatest achievement was to be named Erastus Salisbury Field.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:13 PM
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Oh crap. The top step and the clouds of dust represent how dead all those people all. DON'T GO, KID! IT'S A TRAP.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:13 PM
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The arena-show-style dry ice haze at their feet is a nice touch. I can almost hear the power chords.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:17 PM
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92

According to the explication, it's the Dust of the Dead. I thought it was just the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:18 PM
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Not really pwned, since I was suggesting something else entirely.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:18 PM
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Wevs. I prefer to think it's dry ice. The Dust of the Dead would just dirty up Jesus' spiffy robe.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:20 PM
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You can see the painting here, but without the annotations.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:27 PM
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Erastus Salisbury Field's greatest achievement was to be named Erastus Salisbury Field.

Wait, didn't The Beatles write a song about him?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:30 PM
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Apparently McNaughton Art exists only to sell reproductions of this one painting; it's the only thing in their gallery. You can get a 66" by 44" signed canvas reproduction for just $2500! I'd put it on my Christmas list, except I hear there's a war on Christmas.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:30 PM
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96: No, you're thinking of their paean to frozen processed meat products. The lyric went:

Salisbury Steak forever

And it was delicious.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:34 PM
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MeFi also has a post about this, and one of the commenters links to a version with revised mouseovers.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:35 PM
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Searching around while I was trying to load the page, I found someone's parody of it.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:37 PM
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Oh, come on, I found that myself!


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:37 PM
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"Emperor Palpatine" is awesome.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:43 PM
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103

The Jefferson and Livingston parody mouseovers are excellent.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:45 PM
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Did James Madison just pwn John Quincy Adams?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:45 PM
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105

I'm pretty sure the pregnant woman on the wrong side is playing to the "Abortion Harms Women" crap.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 10:46 PM
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106

) The black soldier is named "King" to honor Martin Luther King who... is not present, because he's less of an honor to both Jesus and America than Christie McAuliffe.

And plus who...didn't believe so much in soldiering.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 11:11 PM
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107

Boy, you sure can laugh a lot at this thing before its essential hatefulness bears down on you.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 11:17 PM
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108

It's curious to me that the (physical building) White House is left out. Is the idea that the Executive Branch draws its wisdom from Above?

I'm genuinely curious why you'd bother to paint in the Legislative and Judicial branch buildings but leave out the Executive, unless you were going for something, but what's that something?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 11:45 PM
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Curious, Curious. I apparently overuse that word and am possibly bicurious.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-09 11:48 PM
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108: It's JC as the ultimate unitary executive. Those other two parts of the government don't rate as high, like those other two parts of the Trinity.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:07 AM
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I'm genuinely curious why you'd bother to paint in the Legislative and Judicial branch buildings but leave out the Executive, unless you were going for something, but what's that something?

He thinks Jesus is going to return on the steps of the Library of Congress?


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:08 AM
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Is that where Jesus is?

[Much poking around later.]

Nope. If Jesus is on the steps of the LoC, you couldn't see the Supreme Court building from that angle. You'd see the LoC building but, grant poetic license and... there's a bunch of trees in the way. You'd have to on the grass in front of the Capitol in the dark way off to the South and then it might sorta work.

But what the hell: Kabbalah Jesus can do anything!

max
['Nights in gold satin,
never able to wend,
paintings I've bitten,
a loud keening to rend.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:39 AM
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I read the comment thread without clicking the link. At the moment, I find it easier to believe that you all are just randomly making things up and claiming that they are found at the link.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:52 AM
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114

How can anyone be so shit at painting? I mean, that's epically bad work, not just in painterly terms, but holy fuck, composition fail much?

It isn't like Christ & a bunch-of-people is a rare subject in art; couldn't he have cribbed off Michelangelo or someone who could array figures in space?


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 2:00 AM
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86: The prominence of Christa McAuliffe just kills me.

ME TOO!


Posted by: JUDITH RESNIK | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 3:58 AM
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4:The black soldier is named "King" to honor Martin Luther King

In the interview he says that he originally painted in Martin Luther King but ran into copyright issues (??) and replaced him with the soldier named King.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 4:08 AM
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re: 114

Carravagio is the go-to-guy for arranging figures in space, imho.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 4:52 AM
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*I* on the other hand, am not the go to guy for spelling Caravaggio.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 4:52 AM
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I'd mock this more, but I'm conscious that my own home town contains the infamous "Ascent of Jock" frieze, which runs round four sides of the room and depicts the inexorable rise of the mighty Scottish race from Stone Age Proto-Scot through various Vikings, kings, monks, explorers etc to its culmination in, er, Thomas Carlyle.

http://www.nationalgalleries.org/education/activityPopup/frieze_framed.swf

It could be worse. Had it been painted a century later, it would probably be Kenny Dalgleish.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 5:48 AM
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I love that the Business Woman has no explanatory text. Because she's a whore who should be at home raising babies, maybe?


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 7:16 AM
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Am I the only one for whom the link in the post isn't working? (It wasn't working for me last night either.)

Apropos of nothing, here's a friendly reminder that when you ride alone, you ride with Hitler.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:01 AM
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120: Actually, I think she's going to heaven--she's on God's right hand. Because next to moms, Jesus loves business.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:08 AM
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120: She can't stay home, because Mr. Hollywood would look down at her with ridicule and amusement. Duh.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:11 AM
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Ooh, 122 is better. 123 withdrawn.

And, no, Brock, you're not the only one. I wonder if we broke it.

The crazy Founding Jesus Father painting, it broke.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:13 AM
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Did anybody else have trouble getting the link to load? I tried a couple of hours ago and decided to try again later. Later (just now) it didn't work any better.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:15 AM
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28, 44, 52, 59, 89 to 121
28, 44, 52, 59, 89, 121 to 125


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:18 AM
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The broken link symbolized the blindfolding of America.

I am forced to rely on other's to describe it to me.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:28 AM
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I really should read the things I write before I post them.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:29 AM
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I thought the apostrophe in 127 was in homage to the spelling and grammar of the explanation's.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:51 AM
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124 to 126


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:51 AM
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I'm very disappointed by the artist's neglect of Orly Taitz, today's greatest living American. Also wik, what's with the neglect of teh gay? This picture needs more recruiting, McNaughton!


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:53 AM
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116

In the interview he says that he originally painted in Martin Luther King but ran into copyright issues (??) and replaced him with the soldier named King.

The King family has aggressively protected their right of publicity .


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 9:44 AM
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20: Jesus blessed somebody's state but not mine.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 9:49 AM
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Finally loaded.

HOLY SHIT.

The caption on Gibbons v. Ogden is definitely my favorite.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 9:58 AM
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Actually, no, "American Soldier" (his body armor "a tribute to Martin Luther King") wins.

I wish I could somehow buy a print of this thing without sending this lunatic any money.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:04 AM
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did anybody notice the tree on his vest?

Apparently Jesus went to Punahou. Coincidence? I think not.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:11 AM
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he originally painted in Martin Luther King but ran into copyright issues (??) and replaced him with the soldier named King.

Pity he didn't paint Jesus as a black soldier. His name tag could read "King" and Jesus could stand in for MLK and JESUS·NAZARENUS·REX·JUDÆORUM.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:12 AM
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The school-teacher-good/college-teacher-bad thing is starting to get to me. I mean, really, why?

School teachers are just as liberal as college teachers. Worse, they are all in unions.

Is it just that college teachers seem to have a level of knowledge that conservatives don't possess?

Maybe the acknowledgement of the value of school teachers is like the acknowledgement of Susan B. Anthony. At this point it is just too clear that education, like women's suffrage, is a good thing, even if the artist would oppose it in other contexts.

Maybe it is the model of education used in high school vs. college. High school is still an authoritarian institution. In college people take seriously the idea of a *liberal* education, that is, one that prepares you to be a free person.



Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:14 AM
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Five generations of soldiers from the Revolutionary War era to the modern day U.S. Marine

Is 5 a number with special significance in numerology or something? Why is this particularly symbolic?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:14 AM
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138: They know schoolteachers.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:18 AM
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In college people take seriously the idea of a *liberal* education, that is, one that prepares you to be a free person.

Libris libraque!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:22 AM
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The school-teacher-good/college-teacher-bad thing is starting to get to me. I mean, really, why?

Looking for coherence where none exists is always frustrating. The opposition makes even less sense when you read his symbol list, which makes it explicit that K-12 teachers are also among the liberal-humanist damned.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:23 AM
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Five generations of soldiers from the Revolutionary War era to the modern day U.S. Marine

Those are some pretty long generations there. I suppose a fairly senior modern Marine could have a grandfather who was at Belleau Wood, but I think he in turn would be hard pushed to have a grandfather who was at Bunker Hill. And step-parents are cheating.

his body armor "a tribute to Martin Luther King"

Body armour wouldn't have been a bad idea for Martin Luther King. Just saying.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:26 AM
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Also, referring to a Marine as a "soldier"? Huge faux pas. "Soldier" is an insulting term for an armed man who wasn't good enough to become a Marine.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:28 AM
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141: Heh. One used to delight in "making [free] men out of boys" jokes.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:29 AM
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Body armour wouldn't have been a bad idea for Martin Luther King.

I almost made a similar comment, but the bullet that killed him went in through his jaw.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:30 AM
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School teachers are just as liberal as college teachers. Worse, they are all in unions.

Not in the places where college professors are considered evil.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:34 AM
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115 made me choke on my coffee.

I painted Satan to be hardly noticeable as he lurks behind the movie director. I tried to make him creepy and dark to symbolize the enemy to all righteousness. I don't know for sure what he looks like, but I know he is very real. He probably is good looking, but as a symbol for evil I chose to paint him dark and sinister.

I don't expect this painting to demonstrate the theological insight of John Bunyan ("Now a little before them, there was on the left hand of the road a meadow, and a stile to go over into it") or C.S. Lewis, but reaching the level of "Pinocchio" shouldn't be that hard, should it? Then again, it foiled George Lucas.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:40 AM
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Is 5 a number with special significance in numerology or something

ALL THINGS HAPPEN IN FIVES, OR ARE DIVISIBLE BY OR ARE MULTIPLES OF FIVE, OR ARE SOMEHOW DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY APPROPRIATE TO 5.


Posted by: OPINIONATED DISCORDIAN | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:48 AM
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Three, sir.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:49 AM
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138

School teachers are just as liberal as college teachers. ...

I don't think so.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:51 AM
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"Soldier" is an insulting term for an armed man who wasn't good enough to become a Marine.

Gee, I wanted to be a Marine but had to be a soldier instead. I failed the background check. They found out that my parents were married when I was born.

[Where's TLL?]


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 11:16 AM
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151: OH YEAH? WELL, I THINK SO!!!


Posted by: OPINIONATED OPINION | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 11:16 AM
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The school-teacher-good/college-teacher-bad thing is starting to get to me. I mean, really, why?

If there's any reason at all, I imagine that it's because "schoolteacher" still has cozy, small-town-America connotations that "professor" tends to lack. Which isn't to say that the artist couldn't have reversed the two and portrayed the professor as a wise hander-down of tradition and the schoolteacher as a raving, union-led, gay-indoctrinating harridan, but that doesn't seem keyed to quite the same kind of sentimentality that the artist wants to evoke.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 11:34 AM
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113
At the moment, I find it easier to believe that you all are just randomly making things up and claiming that they are found at the link.

No such luck. If you aren't following the link just because it's not working for you (me neither), then check out the parody linked in 99-100. Same picture, different hovertext.

I first saw McNaughton's painting hosted on someone else's Web site as a simple image without any context or hovertext (or if there was a link, I just didn't bother to follow it), and I assumed it was a parody. Because, you see, nobody could be that wingnutty, right? And even if some random artist was, there wouldn't be a market for this, nor even hosting on any professional Web site, right?

Silly me. I blame DougJ at balloon-juice.com, a center-left guy who spoofed wingnuts for years, fooleing me and others dozens of times. I should have remembered, American conservatives are unspoofable.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 11:47 AM
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Along somewhat similar lines . . .

Conservapedia is fixing the liberal bias of the bible. (See also, Conservative Bible Project Cuts Out Liberal Passages.) There are 10 principles to follow, including: "Prefer Conciseness over Liberal Wordiness." If windbag = liberal, Fox News has some 'splainin' to do.

My favorite part is that they don't think all the problems stem from translation errors or changes in word definitions. Some arise from "lack of precision in the original language."

Christianity introduced powerful new concepts that even the Greek and Hebrew were inadequate to express, but modern conservative language can express well.

You gotta give 'em credit for applying a materialist, historical lens to the project.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 11:51 AM
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Conservapedia would also like to weigh in specifically on the schoolteacher vs. professor debate. All that higher learning ruins the mind, doncha know.

The committee in charge of updating the bestselling version, the NIV [New International(e?!) Version], is dominated by professors and higher-educated participants who can be expected to be liberal and feminist in outlook.

Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 11:53 AM
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The title of the Conservapedia Bible will be Everything Jesus Really Needed to Know He Learned in Kindergarten.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 11:59 AM
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The title of the Conservapedia Bible will be Everything Jesus Really Needed to Know He Learned in Kindergarten As Taught by Ayn Rand.

Socialistic terminology permeates English translations of the Bible, without justification. This improperly encourages the "social justice" movement among Christians.

Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:01 PM
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Okay, that one's mind-blowing. I can't wait to read the revised Sermon on the Mount.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:07 PM
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Turns out "meek" was a mis-translation of "Murricans".


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:10 PM
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But it's probably easier just to dig up a bunch of golden tablets in your backyard and get an angel to translate them for you.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:15 PM
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156 is a parody/spoof. That's obvious, right?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:15 PM
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That's obvious, right?

Someone didn't do the reading for this thread.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:20 PM
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163: See, Brock was probably indoctrinated by a liberal version of the bible and now he wants to believe the best about people. A tragic case study, really.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:26 PM
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Robert Fulghum's stuff is actually good for kids to read, I think. Is he a figure of fun among the cognoscentelligentsia? Was he in the 90s?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:30 PM
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Christianity introduced powerful new concepts that even the Greek and Hebrew were inadequate to express

Among other things, Schlafly doesn't believe that humor existed before Christianity.

I don't know what to make of Schlafly or Conservapedia. How can a project be such a parody of itself without automatically collapsing into some kind of black hole of infinite bone-headedness?


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:33 PM
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Is he a figure of fun among the cognoscentelligentsia? Was he in the 90s?

I don't remember his being so. His was the first of the "Everything I Learned" books and came before all the "Chicken Soup for Your Dog's Butt" books, so it wasn't immediately trite. The general reaction from the liberal elite that I recall ranged from neutral to very positive -- that he was a little cutesy but fundamentally humane and not wildly sentimental.

But my perspective is skewed, because Fulghum was a UU minister and thus there was a built-in preference amongst my people.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:49 PM
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We had a whole week at Unitarian family camp where the leader of the teen group would start off circle time by reading us a selection from Fulghum. Then we would talk about how deep it was.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:57 PM
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The discussion linked in 167 is breathtaking. What is wrong with these people?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:58 PM
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I too spent weeks at Unitarian family camps, during various summers. We went to one in western North Carolina a couple times, and one in Maine.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 12:59 PM
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Robert Fulghum: America's last-ever prominent Christian personality who was not an imperialist reactionary maniac?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:03 PM
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171: I think you are talking about The Mountain and Ferry Beach. I went to Star Island, the one in New Hampshire. Still go, actually.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:04 PM
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Robert Fulghum is quoted in the ethics textbook I use. The textbook author is fond of mixing classical and highbrow sources with popular stuff that conveys roughly the same message.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:15 PM
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171, 173 - Stop asserting inherent worth and dignity and get back to making fun of the painting.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:21 PM
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Dear God, that Conservapedia "discussion" of pre-Christian comedy is just gobsmacking. I think it has to be the most absurd thing I've ever seen on the site, and that's really saying something.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:21 PM
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173: The Mountain was the site of my first kiss! I went there for a national youth (Con-Con, for those in the know) retreat, sans family.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:24 PM
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I'm having a hard time asserting inherit worth and dignity to that painting.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:25 PM
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The Mountain was where I had my first beer! And saw my first pot. But I didn't partake then.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:27 PM
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I recently went back and read some of Robert Fulghum's chapters. I still enjoyed them.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:27 PM
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Plus the front-page-linked discussion over whether they could use a different word than "slavery" in the Bible.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:28 PM
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We actually almost went to The Mountain this summer, but looked at a map and realized how damn far away it was from anywhere else we wanted to go. Except maybe Dollywood. And my wife doesn't want to go to Dollywood, for some reason.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:29 PM
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my wife doesn't want to go to Dollywood

That's grounds for divorce in most states, you know (though, ironically, not in Tennessee).


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 1:43 PM
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But that's not why I live in Tennessee.


Posted by: George Strait | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 2:10 PM
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It's interesting to compare the relatively-moderate conservapedia entry on Bill Clinton with the lunacy on Obama. Is this purely a function of conservapedia's recent vintage, or have conservatives decided 'Slick Willy' wasn't so bad after all?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 2:35 PM
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185 is a stark comparison indeed.

And why does Obamunism merit all this painstaking scholarship, while there's not even a subhead about Hitlery on the Clinton page?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 2:42 PM
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Is Hitlery like cutlery? Or more like celery?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 2:44 PM
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185: Wow, that's more than a little crazy.

I like the recommendations for "Further reading."


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 2:52 PM
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185: I never knew Dr. Que/ntin You/ng was on the KGB payroll!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 2:55 PM
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153 154

Elementary school teachers are politically similar to the population at large. See here and here . College professors are far left politically. See here .


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 3:03 PM
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Wow. The guy from Shearer's first two links is really dedicated to racial lines and the utmost worth of IQ.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 3:10 PM
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This gallery of McNaughton's other work shows, in my opinion, the strong influence of Thomas Kinkade, Painter of Light. Or maybe both of them are drawing on the same pure power of American Christianity to light their cottages.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 3:18 PM
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From the last link in 190:

The liberal label that a majority of the faculty members attached to themselves is reflected on a variety of issues. The professors and instructors surveyed are, strongly or somewhat, in favor of abortion rights (84 percent); believe homosexuality is acceptable (67 percent); and want more environmental protection "even if it raises prices or costs jobs" (88 percent).

A third of faculty members don't believe homosexuality is acceptable? Horrifying.

Anyway, James, the numbers appear to substantiate that most college professors lean slightly left politically, but not that they are "far left".


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 3:46 PM
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192: Wow, there's a ton of stuff there. A whole section devoted to Mormon temples! A cliff dwelling! The text on that one makes for interesting reading in light of the Jesus Constitution one.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 4:13 PM
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The article about Obamunism would really be a good source for a term paper.

For example, you've got the categories:

# 1 Economic policy
* 1.1 Massive deficits
* 1.2 Gerald Celente commentary on Obama's economic policy

Economic policy can indeed be boiled down to those two things, in a perfect world.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 4:18 PM
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185: or have conservatives decided 'Slick Willy' wasn't so bad after all?

Conservatives and the mainstream media are racing each other to see who can erase and revise the memory of their behavior during the Clinton administration the fastest. Digby linked to a surreal Chris Matthews interview with Taylor Branch (the guy with the new Clinton book) in which Matthews "appeared" to not remember that it was not just Fox and the nutters who were all over Clinton's case. This from the guy who had a special 1/2 hour segment with Gennifer Flowers (in '98 or '99 long after her personal saga was relevant) dedicated to the Clinton murders etc. Gah! Buttmunching puppets on a string, every last one of them. It might take a while, but it is imperative that history crucify them and the media empires behind them. I look forward to a future analogue to Godwin's Law developing around the mere mention of High Broderism.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 4:39 PM
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Buttmunching puppets on a string

Get regretsy on the horn.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 4:42 PM
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197: Now there's a cavalcade of wonders. I don't know which I like better, the goat coat or My First Teddy Bear. And that's just from the first two pages.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 4:50 PM
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185, 196. Slick Willy's rehabilitation in the eyes of the MSM will depend directly upon the success of Obama. If Obama fails, like Bush 43, The Clenis will be second only to Saint Ronnie the Bearslayer in the modern pantheon.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 6:27 PM
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197/98: The portrait vulva keychain.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 6:31 PM
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197 &c: Holy crap. Masturbating dinosaur wall art. There's four words I never thought I'd type all together.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 6:45 PM
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181: Clearly, they should follow the Constitution's lead and use its euphemisms.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 6:55 PM
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Now this is fine art.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 7:01 PM
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203: ZOMG. Love it. Peeking socialist Obama! Guernica bull thing looking down on poker-playing dogs!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 7:07 PM
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193

Anyway, James, the numbers appear to substantiate that most college professors lean slightly left politically, but not that they are "far left".

Based on the spectrum of political opinion in the United States as it is and not as you wish it to be, college professors overall are in fact far left.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 7:44 PM
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James, I think you're confusing "many of them are somewhat left" with "overall they are far left." The 3 positions cited in 193 are all held by over 100,000,000 Americans. I don't see how you get from there to the "far left" (which, to be clear, would feature positions such as nationalization of industry and abolition of the military, or maybe reducing it to 1960s Japan levels).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:15 PM
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According to Voltaire, Karl XII of Sweden hunted bears with a spear. He was probably the worst king Sweden ever had, but his life was dramatic.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:15 PM
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No imitating lapsed commenters, ned.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:18 PM
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194: A whole section devoted to Mormon temples! A cliff dwelling! The text on that one makes for interesting reading in light of the Jesus Constitution one.

I think you and a NPH have hit upon it. The OP painting is a rehash of Jesus appearing to Joseph Smith (iconography, all safe jpgs: one, two, three, and fourth and best), secularized. Mix in some Founding Father Masonic stuff and strip away Joseph Smith and uff da.

(Since Dan Brown released his junky masonic thriller, Google hits tend to be predominately like this one from freemasonrywatch. However for a less paranoid view (I do not endorse any contents thereof, please to note) see this page here, which has lots of good pictures, and not so much with the kooky rambling, at least on that page.)

Anyways, that strongly implies that the Tree of Life in the painting is the Mormon tree of life, except not (wiki jpg). That tree of life has leaves, whereas this one is apparently made of gold (!!). And Jesus is wearing a gold robe, which I basically cannot find in any image anywhere. {twitch} So I am guessing this guy is a Mormon, but a Mormon occultist of some type, and probably an acolyte of Glenn Beck or at least Beckian in outlook. (Note that one of the papers spilled by the Supreme Court Justice is supposed to be Marbury v. Madison and John Jay, but not John Marshall, is in the lineup there. So the Supreme Court has been bad since 1803, but... Abraham Lincoln is great! Muh?) Yeesh.

Anyways, I note in passing that according to an article the Mormon History Association apparently thought highly of:

While I would not diminish the inventive genius of Joseph Smith, careful reevaluation of historical data suggests there is both a poetic and an unsuspected factual substance to Bloom's thesis. Though yet little understood, from Joseph's adolescent years forward he had repeated, sometime intimate and arguably influential associations with distant legacies of Gnosticism conveyed by Kabbalah and Hermeticism--traditions intertwined in the Renaissance and nurtured through the reformative religious aspirations of three subsequent centuries. Though any sympathy Joseph held for old heresy was perhaps intrinsic to his nature rather than bred by association, the associations did exist. And they hold a rich context of meanings. Of course, the relative import of these interactions in Joseph Smith's history will remain problematic for historians; efforts to revision the Prophet in their light--or to reevaluate our methodology of understanding his history--may evoke a violently response from traditionalists. Nonetheless, these is substantial documentary evidence, material unexplored by Bloom or Mormon historians generally, supporting a much more direct Kabbalistic and Hermetic influences upon Smith and his doctrine of God than has previously been considered possible.
Through his associations with ceremonial magic as a young treasure seer, Smith contacted symbols and lore taken directly from Kabbalah. In his prophetic translation of sacred writ, his hermeneutic method was in nature Kabbalistic. With his initiation into Masonry, he entered a tradition born of the Hermetic-Kabbalistic tradition. These associations culminated in Nauvoo, the period of his most important doctrinal and ritual innovations. During these last years, he enjoyed friendship with a European Jew well-versed in the standard Kabbalistic works and possibly possessing in Nauvoo an extraordinary collection of Kabbalistic books and manuscripts. By 1844 Smith not only was cognizant of Kabbalah, but enlisted theosophic concepts taken directly from its principal text in his most important doctrinal sermon, the "King Follett Discourse."
So apparently I was right, perhaps, but via a much more indirect source than I thought.


max
['Thou shalt not crucify mankind on a Cross Tree of Gold.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:20 PM
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Yeah, the guy's obviously Mormon; his church history page is all about specifically LDS church history. As for the Kabbalistic connection, well, I dunno. Smith certainly had an interest in the esoteric.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:29 PM
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I suppose a fairly senior modern Marine could have a grandfather who was at Belleau Wood

True Dat. My grandfather drove an ambulance for the French. Very Razor's Edge. Then he served with Patton in the fledgling tank corps when the Yanks went over there. My cohort are retired, or bird colonels. Some generals, too.

I'm right here, Idealist. Service rivalry jokes are under-appreciated in this forum.



Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:42 PM
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Service rivalry jokes are under-appreciated in this forum.

That's your cohort's fault, for abolishing the draft.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:43 PM
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212.
Sweet baby Jeebus. That's what's missing from the current anti war movement. The element of nagging fear of the draft. Slackers.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:47 PM
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Service rivalry jokes are under-appreciated in this forum.

Their loss.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:50 PM
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213: Rep. Charlie Rangel hears you, TLL.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:51 PM
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For the record, I very much appreciate service rivalry jokes. My best friend from HS who went into the Navy kept me supplied with them.

He also kept me supplied with a series of grossly sexist postcards from the PX, each sent in honor of another Tailhook-related resignation.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 8:54 PM
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||

Something won!

As a fallback, Senate Democratic leaders have stepped up their pressure on centrists to stick with the party on procedural votes. At a minimum, leaders have asked all 60 Democrats to allow them to bring a health care bill to the floor in order to make sure Republicans cannot filibuster it.
Democratic Senate aides familiar with the thinking of Conference moderates said centrists want to vote for a health care reform bill -- even one that is politically problematic -- because it appeals emotionally to their inner Democrat.

Oh boy! "A health care reform bill"! I wonder what sort of strong measure would be sufficient to feed the vestigial, all-but-extinguished embers of Kent Conrad and Arlen Specter's "inner Democrat". Maybe they'd like to pass a bill stating that all HMOs are from now on to be referred to as "co-ops". That would probably be sufficient.

|>


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 9:12 PM
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Are we still talking about Constance Garnett? Because I thought her Anna K was quite lovely, and if Tolstoy was different, I don't think I want to know.

But the first line is dumb; it just isn't true. I know many similar unhappy families. And what's with riding horses to death? I mean, was that necessary?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 9:38 PM
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oh wait, put that other thread on top of this one please, thx.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 9:40 PM
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"All happy families are more or less dissimilar; all unhappy
ones are more or less alike," says a great Russian writer in the
beginning of a famous novel (Anna Arkadievitch Karenina,
transfigured into English by R.G. Stonelower, Mount Tabor
3.05 Ltd., 1880).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 9:50 PM
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220: That pronouncement has little if any relation to the story to be unfolded now. (The ardors and arbors of Ardis!)


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:06 PM
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The ardors and arbors of Ardis!

Mmmmmmmm.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:12 PM
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Service rivalry jokes are under-appreciated in this forum.

Shouldn't you and Idealist be bonding by making fun of the Air Force?



Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:24 PM
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Shouldn't you and Idealist be bonding by making fun of the Air Force?

Like this, for example.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:31 PM
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That's kind of a large water trap.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:32 PM
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224: I love that pic.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10- 7-09 10:33 PM
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I have trouble believing that the people on that Conservapedia thread are real. Aristophanes is obviously the exact same genre as SNL's Weekend Update.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 1:59 AM
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"I'm not a member of any military organisation. I'm in the Air Force."

206: those three positions - abortion rights, acceptance of homosexuality and a willingness to exchange lower profits for better environmental protection - are actually also the settled law of the land, and have been supported not only by consistent majorities in opinion polls, but by every administration, of both parties, for the last three decades at least.

Which is to say: don't confuse your own deranged beliefs with the mainstream, Shearer, you silly man.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 2:37 AM
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227: I sort of find it harder to believe in the existence of the reasonable people than the wingnuts in those threads. The thought that anyone would devote so much time and effort to debunking arguments such as "there was no humour before Christ" or "there was higher literacy in Ancient Greece than the modern USA", against respondents who think that any reference whatsoever to expertise is Stalinism... it's most peculiar.

(Perhaps whatever motivates them to try to make Conservapedia saner is precisely what motivates Shearer to try to, um, educate the unfogged readership.)


Posted by: Abelard | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 3:08 AM
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To follow up my own comment - it's not just "someone is wrong on the internet" - there are lots of people being wrong on the internet. Why put so much effort into the very wrongest? I kind of want to interview the saner Conservapedians.


Posted by: Abelard | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 3:10 AM
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Service rivalry jokes are under-appreciated in this forum.

I like them! Anyone inspired to make any should go for it! (I suppose I am vaguely Team Navy, since my pops was in the Navy in WWII [father=super old] and I dated a middie for a while in school.)

I've no doubt said this here, but I was tasked with returning the USNA's stolen goat mascot after the Middie v Johnnie croquet match one year. After mincing up to one of the gates, goat in tow, I said, to the poker faced Marine guard, "I'm here to return your mascot." He gave me a stern look and said, "Not my mascot" and waved me through.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 6:50 AM
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A viola player for the Minneapolis Phil is walking down the beach and he sees an old oil lamp lying there. So naturally he rubs it, and when the genie appears, he says:
"Make me twice as good a musician!"
There's a flash of light, and suddenly he finds himself playing viola for the Chicago Philharmonic. He rubs the lamp again.
"Now make me twice as good as that!"
Another flash of light, and he's playing lead viola with the London Philharmonic.
"Now make me twice as good as that!"
Another flash, and he's standing in Carnegie Hall, about to play with the New York Philharmonic as soloist in Telemann's viola concerto.
"Now make me twice as good as that!"
A final flash, and he finds himself sitting at the back of the Minneapolis Phil, holding a violin.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:03 AM
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Anyone inspired to make any should go for it!

I know so few that are not socially unacceptable (questioning the manhood of Air Force officers is a common theme).

How about this.

A battle was raging to take a strategically important hilltop. The enemy had deeply dug in heavy machine guns positioned to kill anyone who tried a frontal assualt on the hill.

Generals from each service surveyed the battle (from a safe distance, of course). Each began to brag of the bravery of the members of his branch. To prove his point, the Marine general said that he was going to prove that Marines were the most audacious warriors. He called a Marine Force Recon officer over and told him to take the hill by frontal assualt. The Marine immediately yelled "gung ho, can do, sir" and charged up the hill. He was killed instantly.

The Air Force general called over an Air Force Combat Controller and told him to take the hill. The Combat Controller started to cry and ran away.

Laughing at his Air Force colleague, the Navy admiral told the group, "you want to see audacity, look at this," and called over a SEAL and told him to take the hill by frontal assault. The SEAL gave a fierce growl and started up the hill. Despite being hit multiple times, he did not stop until, near the top, he finally died of his wounds.

Finally, the Army general called over a Green Beret officer and said "Captain, I want you to take that hill by frontal assault." The Green Beret captain looked at the hill, looked at the general, looked back at the hill, and turned to the general and said "Fuck you" and walked off in disgust.

The general turned to the group and said, "See gentlemen, that is audacity."

(the Green Beret slipped up the hill that night from the flank, slit the enemy's throats and drank all their beer)


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:18 AM
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I kind of want to interview the saner Conservapedians.

I suspect that they are the engineer-Republicans that John Rogers famously eulogized. They view Conservapaedia as having a legit purpose (because, while they may be reality-cognizant, they still find Wiki too squishy), and so they think their mission is to make it better at its ostensible mission. When, in reality, it's nothing more than more BS to feed the rubes (and Andy Schlafly's personal wingnut welfare).

That said, I look forward to your Interviews with Horribly Deluded Men.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:31 AM
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233: Ha! I am intrigued by the "air force dudes are wimps" thing. Is it because they "strike from afar"? The Iliad at times definitely impugns the manhood of archers for such reasons.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:38 AM
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I think the funniest inter-service snark I saw was in some British book about naval strategy, written when the Royal Navy pretty much literally controlled every square inch of the planet that wasn't land. (All from memory, I am afraid.) This guy's talking about what to do in I think smaller engagements, and in passing he mentions the British Army's proud tradition of desperate last stands: the Lucknow Residency, Rorke's Drift, Gloster Hill. (Well, not Gloster Hill, but you know.)

He goes on to say that the Navy has no such traditions, having never needed to fight desperate last stands. Instead, the Royal Navy has a proud tradition of winning.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:45 AM
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235: very definitely. Also, they tend to be well-supplied with air-conditioning and ice cream, rather than living out in some benighted mud-walled FOB or platoon house in the middle of nowhere being periodically mortared and eating cold suspicious-looking unidentifiable things out of foil bags. Exceptions are generally made for helicopter pilots on the grounds that they lead a sufficiently dangerous life to make them respectable.

236: trying to remember who described the Navy's traditional role as being that of evacuating the Army from the Continent: Walcheren, Corunna, Dunkirk and so on.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:57 AM
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The Iliad at times definitely impugns the manhood of archers for such reasons.

And yet, would you say that to Apollo's face? I think not.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:03 AM
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I had to search for this joke to get an accurate-sounding version:

If you tell a Marine officer, an Army officer, a Naval officer, and an Air Force officer to "secure that building", this is what you will see...

The Marine will take his entire command, they will coordinate for an airstrike and artillery support which will crash into the building, then while half of his force suppresses with rifle and machinegun fire, the other half will burst into the building, clearing each room with grenades and bursts of fire, until they get to the top of the building, where they will plant a flag and then radio back to you that the smoldering wreckage is now "secured."

On the other hand...the Army officer will take his command into the building. They will set up a base inside and immediately start knocking out the windows and replacing them with sandbagged revetments. They will encircle the building with barbed wire and defensive command-detonated mines, and they will plan for a ring of artillery to come down around the building if the enemy attacks. After 24 hours the building will be a fortress that it would take a force at least five times larger to take away. That officer will then call you and tell you the building is "secured."

Tell a Navy officer to "secure the building" and he'll walk inside, spin the dials on the safes, make sure the lights are turned off, and then lock the front door on his way out to report "building secure."

And an Air Force officer? Well, his first act would be to go to the local ReMax real estate agent and take out a 10 year lease with an option to buy.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:04 AM
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238: I would however tell it to Paris as he sits there polishing his curved bow when Hector walks in holding his 7-cubit spear.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:05 AM
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Have we discussed the History channels fights between various historical figures?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:14 AM
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re: 241

Charlie Brooker's TV show discussed it a fair bit here in the UK. Culminating in Al-qaeda versus the IRA, in a car-park, iirc.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:15 AM
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240: Oh, I bet you'd love to tell it to Paris, IYKWIMAITYD.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:21 AM
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241, 242: is this serious? Or is this just a Charlie Brooker idea?

ajay

["It's worrying that the line between them is starting to blur".]


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:29 AM
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241/42: Seriously? Like Caesar v Hitler: The Ruhrbicon or something?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:33 AM
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re: 244

It's a genuine program. It's been reviewed in a few places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_Warrior#Episode_9:_IRA_vs._Taliban


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:34 AM
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The concept of William Wallace versus Shaka Zulu is particularly brilliant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_Warrior#Episode_8:_William_Wallace_vs_Shaka_Zulu


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:34 AM
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Huh. I'd think people would be offended by the implicit comparison of one of the great generals of history with an uncivilized savage. Didn't anyone from South Africa complain?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:39 AM
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Ba-da-bing!


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:42 AM
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I'm weirdly excited by this show. I've been listening to Donald Kagan's ancient Greek history course, and his lecture on the Hoplite phalanx made me suddenly interested in military history. This is a topic I have disdained for decades and now suddenly I'm thinking "I'd like to see one of these battles reenacted."


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:46 AM
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That Maori vs Shaloin thing is total bullshit, the Maori bloke would have eaten the Shaolin for lunch, especially if they knew Ka Mate, in which case they'd have had access to muskets and know how to use them quite well.

(/nationalistic vaguely racist nonsense)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:50 AM
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Good grief. That's... insane. (the programme concept, not 250). Especially "Yakuza v. Mafia". And the sheer tastelessness of "IRA v. Al-Qaeda".

Mind, I'd watch the re-enacted "Abe Lincoln v. James Shields" (in a pit, with broadswords).

Or better still, Kennedy-Nixon. Tricky one. Kennedy was probably fitter, but would his lingering back injury outweigh Nixon's recent knee surgery? Assuming we're going for 1960 Nixon, that is, before the whisky started to do real damage. Key question: are performance-enhancing drugs allowed or would JFK have to fight without them?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:54 AM
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Caesar v Hitler: The Ruhrbicon

You're the best, oud.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:00 AM
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OK, I read some of the wiki article for that TV show. It reminds me strongly of the Calvin & Hobbes in which C is narrating "the only thing more terrifying than a T-Rex: T-Rexes in F-15s!" C says, "This is so cool!" as H says, "This is so stupid."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:23 AM
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re: 251

I'm mildly annoyed they didn't just declare the series over after one episode in which they discovered that Scots pwn everyone.*

* except Maoris.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:49 AM
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And of course, people with both Scots and Maori heritage are pretty easy to find in NZ -- I knew one in Samoa. Not that she was obviously particularly deadly, of course.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:53 AM
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255: well, we did kind of eventually pwn the Maoris too, didn't we? I mean, there are towns in New Zealand called Dunedin and Invercargill. Not many towns in Scotland called New Waitangi.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:05 AM
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re: 257

Heh, yes.

Close-up weapons: the chib, the broken Buckfast bottle, the king-rib-supper-induced halitosis.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:10 AM
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Not that she was obviously particularly deadly, of course.

As far as you knew.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:27 AM
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I'm behind in my threadreading (damn facebook!). Has anyone linked to this yet?

Amazing giant marionettes.

Also, on video. The facial movements in particular I find disconcerting in their uncanny lifelikeness. Also, the removable shoes and socks are quite impressive.

The story line kind of squicks me though. East Germany as a lost little girl?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:31 AM
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I'm surprised that the History Channel hasn't stolen our Badass First Ladies Cagematch idea. I guess the outcome is no longer in doubt, given the current occupant's spouse's well publicized triceps.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:43 AM
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> I guess the outcome is no longer in doubt

Au contraire. Anna Harrison once killed a bear with a bowie knife.

You would think William Henry would have listened to her when she told him to put on a friggin' coat.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:53 AM
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260: I also dig the puppeteers' uniforms.

I'm thinking if those are the kind of giant puppets that we bring to the next anti-war rally, we'll get more respect.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:59 AM
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207 to 262, astonishingly enough.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 11:00 AM
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I think bear killing was a lot more common in those days.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 11:03 AM
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265: Also, other bear-related program activities.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 11:21 AM
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I don't care if this has been mentioned before. I can't believe they have Thomas friggin' "The Age of Reason" Payne in that picture.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 3:21 PM
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And that I misspelled Paine, following their example. Ugh.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 3:22 PM
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Also, how did they not put the Dred Scott case in the to-be-trampled pile? I thought the whole Dred Scott == Roe v. Wade thing was Wingnut Gospel.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 3:32 PM
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269: To be fair, Dred Scott has been moot for nearly a century and a half, so there's no reason for the "Supreme Court Judge" to be anguished by it. I believe all of the trampled cases are still in effect.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 3:36 PM
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fair enough on the whole dunedin/invercargill thing, but (a) have you ever been to either of those places? Not exactly the Athenses of the South; I'd be tempted to disown them, and (b) once you adjust for size and technology, it starts to look pretty impressive.

In the annals of everyone-vs-the-British-Army, not getting beaten too badly is about all you can hope for.


Posted by: rieK | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 3:57 PM
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I've been listening to Donald Kagan's ancient Greek history course, and his lecture on the Hoplite phalanx made me suddenly interested in military history.

I've been listening to that too, because my education totally lacked a decent history component. In fact, I learned more about Roman history in my 9th grade Roman history class than I did in college.

After a couple of lectures, I remembered that I'd heard his name in another context, and I looked it up only to find his neocon connections.

Then, it turns out that he's a huge Victor Davis Hanson fan, so I've started to wondder whether I'm polluting my brain by doing that. But who know? Maybe VDH's scholarship on farming isn't terrible and that it has been informed by his experience as a farmer, though I seem to recall Tassled Loafered Leech sneering at his abilities as a farmer.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 4:18 PM
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272:I thought the VDH book on farmer/hoplites was pretty good, in that any bias or conservatism VDH had was borne out by the facts. We are talking a little pre-classic 8th-5th, and outside of the main cities.

oudemia can correct me


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:10 PM
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"Supreme Court Judge"

Did the guy outside your office say this?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:18 PM
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