Re: Or recreative? Procreative?

1

No


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:33 PM
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I'm pancreative.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:37 PM
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I used to be. Now I'm just old and tired.


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:39 PM
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Creativity is easy. Creativity that isn't crazy or stupid is the hard part.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:43 PM
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Does anyone find it to be a useful category? I think it's most often trotted out to hold oneself apart from or disparage people who make stuff.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:45 PM
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I happen to be very creative software developer in the service of corporate America. So, next time you fill out an insurance form on the web, and think "hey, this is really creative," maybe that was me.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:50 PM
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Is creative a category? Isn't it more like there are areas of your life where you're creative, and areas where you get easily stumped?

I think it's most often trotted out to hold oneself apart from or disparage people who make stuff.

Also to compliment kids. But that's clearly not what I was doing here.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:50 PM
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I should've known creative types are never online at this hour.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:52 PM
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Yes, but in a destructive way.


Posted by: Turgid jacobian | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:52 PM
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I think it's most often trotted out to hold oneself apart from or disparage people who make stuff

Really? Then maybe I didn't used to be creative. Because I think of the era when I made stuff as my creative days. Bread and bagels and clothes and costumes and a table or two... What the hell is creative if it's not making stuff?


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:53 PM
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that's what I meant. I think it's rare for a person to come out and say "I'm creative."


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 7:56 PM
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text has apparently not spent much time reading personal statements on college applications.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:00 PM
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What?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:08 PM
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I shouldn't have pooped on creative so hard. I don't like the word, but so what, some people don't like the words stromboli or heyjerkface.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:08 PM
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Was 13 to 12? I'm in the middle of reading a bunch of personal statements right now, and boy do a lot of kids just say "I'm creative". Okay, kiddo, how about creating a well-crafted essay?


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:15 PM
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essar at 4 said what needs to be said on this subject.

If only I were creative enough to have said it first....


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:18 PM
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I mean, it's fabulous to have a creative person in a committee meeting when everyone's quarrelling, and they throw out an unexpectedly novel proposal that satisfies everyone's gripes. It is actually a really great trait.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:18 PM
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Yeah, I should really just take the stupid post down. What a stupid post.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:20 PM
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(Bad essays make me grumpy.)


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:20 PM
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(Contrarian commenters make me grumpy.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:21 PM
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I'm not actually that grumpy, just riffing on 18 and 19.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:23 PM
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I like creativity.


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:23 PM
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Di combats the grumpies.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:24 PM
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I'm anti-grumpy. Though I've been told my maiden name is an old form of the word contrarian.


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:26 PM
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I've creative in the capacity of being a jerkface. The post must stay! Would it be creative to write a bunch of comments under different pseuds to fan the flames?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:26 PM
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Which last name do you go by, these days?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:27 PM
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I'm creative at gardening! I make my own compost!


Posted by: Arsenio Rumplebottom | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:28 PM
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Would it be creative to write a bunch of comments under different pseuds to fan the flames?

No, it's much more creative to fawn over me.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:28 PM
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Arsenio Rumplebottom is a great handle, though.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:29 PM
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ooh! compost! how's it done?


Posted by: monsoovyenn | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:30 PM
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from a tilda swinton profile. "'i used to write poetry'--isn't that the saddest line you can say?"


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:30 PM
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This Kreative Kat has to go to bed now. Night.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:30 PM
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thanks, long time lurker.


Posted by: Arsenio Rumplebottom | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:31 PM
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26: UNG's, to match Rory and because my professional rep is tied thereto. But I tell people it's because I refuse to give him the name back after everything else I gave him.


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:32 PM
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I'm a creative dresser. Some would say I'm at 100% clown.


Posted by: Charlie Rangel | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:32 PM
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36

I reuse plastic bags in unexpected ways.


Posted by: some person | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:33 PM
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37

I've wondered before whether I'm creative. My first inclination is to say no, because I don't do much that's crafty (unless I'm being pulled along by a roommate). Then I look around my brightly colored house and wonder if that counts, since it isn't standard and I came up with it. Whole-house scale creativity is usually called decor, right?

I am often the person at the meeting who throws out a whole different take on things. But I don't know if that is creative either, because that happens when the situation reminds me of that other situation. Does having an excellent memory and decent pattern recognition, so you can re-apply something someone else did, count as creativitiy? It looks like creativity from the outside, but I know I'm copying something because I remember the source.

If I am creative, I definitely need prompts or seeds from outside. I don't think I originate much.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:33 PM
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38

Creativity is rarely a case of parthenogenesis.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:38 PM
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Does having an excellent memory and decent pattern recognition, so you can re-apply something someone else did, count as creativitiy? It looks like creativity from the outside, but I know I'm copying something because I remember the source.

I dunno, but you just described me. I wouldn't call that skill creativity, precisely. I think of it as a kind of applied librarianship ("knowing where to find things" is a skill, including if the "where" is your own memory bank).


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:39 PM
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There's also an element of reducing the situation to the elementals and realizing the other situation was the same, even though the context may be very different. That part feels very satisfying. The long slog to explain to people that actually, your comparison is valid and the same solution could work is less satisfying.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:47 PM
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This post was needed to help raise the creative class' consciousness. Time for a latte with my gay friends !


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:50 PM
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Librarians can be creative though, in their own doings. Also, liars.


Posted by: Arsenio Rumplebottom | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:51 PM
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If I am creative, I definitely need prompts or seeds from outside. I don't think I originate much.

Prompts don't work for me; they make me feel dumb, and then I am dumb. But constraints! Constraints are an opportunity to feel clever by coming up with a solution where people thought it couldn't be done! Cleverness ensues.

I realize this is not a new phenomenon; it just continues to amaze me that my brain's estimation of its own capacities is so easily manipulated, on such short time-scales.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:51 PM
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40: Yes, absolutely. So great when it happens.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:52 PM
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Yeah, constraints help a lot. The problem definition is a prompt, no?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:56 PM
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17: Yeah, I should really just take the stupid post down. What a stupid post.

It's a fine post, Heebie, considering you're doing all the posting around here. AHEM.

I agree with 4, but I would say I almost ridiculously creative, but, you know, nobody wants to hear it.

max
['Oh, well.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 8:58 PM
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I once got creative in a Burger King bathroom. No, really. Had some far out thoughts in there.


Posted by: Shock G | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:06 PM
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I was in a stupid presentation about working in which I said that creativity could be good for some jobs but not all. (I was thinking of bankers--1.) too much creativity is bad for the markets and 2.) too much creativity can keep you from being the robot they want.) The person said that she thought that creativity was always useful in all jobs, i.e. it was about solving problems.

In her job, her monitor was broken and nobody was able to furnish a new one, so she picked up her computer tower and took it into the other room.

Is that actually creative?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:14 PM
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The problem definition is a prompt, no?

Um. Yes. Yes, it is. I feel that I had an example of an unhelpful, unconstraining prompt in mind when I said prompts weren't helpful, but now of course I have no idea what it was. Something to do with wide-open creative writing assignments in HS? Quick, somebody give me a constraint...


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:16 PM
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Quick, somebody give me a constraint...

types of apples as indicators of apple personality traits!


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:23 PM
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I was doing some research using microfilm and the machine I was using didn't have a very clear lens. So I took a lens from one of the out-of-order machines and swapped it for mine. Then, since no one else was there, I took all the best removable components from the other machines and put them on mine and dumped all the bad stuff onto the out-of-order machines.

That's creative, right?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:25 PM
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50: mcintosh -- enthused by classic stereo equipment.
granny smith -- made queasy by aging.
fuji -- tempestuous and ringed by golf courses.
macoun -- keeps wild animals as pets.
golden delicious -- glenn beck.
honey crisp -- enthusiastic, thoughtful advocate for manned space flight.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:33 PM
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TAKE IT BACK! I love Golden Delicious apples.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:35 PM
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Your gains achieved investing in gold(enness) are illusory.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:37 PM
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American's Southwest's got talent!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:39 PM
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Nothing gold can stay, Megan.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:40 PM
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No, but they come back every fall.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:42 PM
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Winesap: Marmaladov.
...aaaaaand the dark side of constraints is that when they don't make you feel clever, and you promised that they would, you feel extra dumb.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:50 PM
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They grow some good apples in Texas, but they're ripe in July and August, when it's sweltering around here, so it just feels wrong to have these delicious fresh crisp apples but none of the other fall foods I associate with them. Plus it's too hot to bake pies or make cider etc. etc.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:52 PM
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Wow. The idea of summer apples is bending my brain. Why would nature ever give you apples at the same time as stonefruit?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:54 PM
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Speaking of stone fruit, I wouldn't mind summer apples if we could get sour cherries to grow around here. We do get very good peaches in central Texas, due to stubborn German immigrants being determined to grow them despite a climate quite unsuited to it.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 9:58 PM
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Creative? This seems to get it right:

5: Does anyone find it to be a useful category?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:05 PM
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On the other hand, my housemate is a creative person, at least based on his sculptures, which would be wildly beyond the capabilities of most of us. I am not creative in that way, not in the slightest. But he can't arrange furniture or plants or wall decorations for shit, and also can't cook to save his life, so. It's kind of weird.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:12 PM
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I'm freshly arrived from a show at a venue that seemed to be the setting of Dirty Dancing. I hit stuff with sticks; people drank and bopped and bought stuff we made. I created stuff.

Does that count?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:14 PM
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No, sorry. It just doesn't sound like you did those things creatively.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:16 PM
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So by 'creative' we mean 'artistic' - is that it?

max
['Seems silly.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:27 PM
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Well, hey, I created a new post per max's 46. Look at me go.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:33 PM
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I'm not just creative, I'm a fucking creative. And I hate my job. I wish stocking the frozen food aisle paid a decent wage.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:35 PM
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Does this notion of creativity have to do with possession of an aesthetic sense of some sort? (That's what's odd about my housemate, for example; he has such an incredible eye for line and flow and tension/harmony in his work, and can make that out of nothing, but can't seem to see outside that context.)

Unless creativity just making stuff. But then I can introduce you to the fellow who made a sculpture comprised of a coiled up garden hose next to a child's keyboard/synthesizer with two of its keys taped down to play a constant chord. Creative for sure. In a show, even.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:39 PM
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I don't think we have a coherent notion of creativity.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:43 PM
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70: Crewha?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:45 PM
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For instance, a good novelist, that person is creative, a bad novelist, maybe not. Someone who comes up with a new business model, that's creative, someone who implements it, that's not. What connects all of these attributes, besides the word itself?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:46 PM
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Whoever's next in line for the Unfogged recording project has not been creative, at least in the sense of creating something. AHEM.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:48 PM
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Someone who comes up with a new business model is creative?

Are you just thinking: people who think outside the box (such as it is)?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:50 PM
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I'm just thinking of how the word is used. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm a little low on sleep.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:53 PM
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I mean basically all people have a creative impulse, and some more than others, but what's interesting about that? What's interesting is what individuals happen to do that makes us want to say they're creative, but there's no way you can make it a category to include all of them and have it mean anything but good new stuff we like.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 10:55 PM
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Here you go, text.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 11:00 PM
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that was a golden delicious move, sifu.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 11:07 PM
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76: I agree. I'm a little low on sleep as well, and I've just recalled there's going to be a house guest here tomorrow evening by the time I get home, which I just heard about an hour ago, so 'night all.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 11:08 PM
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69: Unless creativity just making stuff.
70: What connects all of these attributes, besides the word itself?

NUDEY NEWNESS!

76: What's interesting is what individuals happen to do that makes us want to say they're creative, but there's no way you can make it a category to include all of them and have it mean anything but good new stuff we like.

Nobody said it had to be *good*.

max
['If you don't play, you can't win.']


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 11:18 PM
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I don't think of myself as creative, not at all. Hm.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10- 8-09 11:31 PM
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I'm a creative person. like, for example, I found these rip-off pantone chairs in white plastic which is hard to get clean, and I have a great idea for making a dining set out of them. I'm going to tag the backs and stencil "post no bills" on them, and print old punk rock flyers from the internet out and then paste them on all over each other and then tear them off in a peeling way until the back of each chair looks like the plywood lining a NYC construction site in 1986. it's going to be awesome. but I don't know if anyone will buy it, narnians are incredibly conservative. I guess if it fails to sell I'll put it in my (new) house for a while, although it's not really the classic colonial look.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:05 AM
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||

This is like a summary of the internet. In light of recent goatse-avoiding mentions, this bit stood out:

If you've never seen a goatse image, now is not the time to start. Never is the time to start.

|>


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:35 AM
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In middle school and high school, I participated in creativity competitions. Odyssey of the Mind, anyone? One year our team came in third in the spontaneous category, but fourteenth overall because I was on meds for pneumonia and knocked over the scenery for our prepared piece. Actually, the meds probably helped with the spontaneous round as well.

So I don't know whether or not I'm creative, but I know that I'm creativer than many.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:40 AM
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eb, I love that you can link to the middle of a youtube video. You just improved my life.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:41 AM
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I like this question. Whenever I hear something like it, it's prompted from (dare I say this, to such a snarky bunch?) sincere inquiry. It's a huge matter, isn't it? Creativity is action.

My creativity is in the kitchen. Not sure why it's there, but I love to cook, love to eat, love to feed my partner, love to find ingredients in odd markets. Pulling disparate elements together to make a whole is creativity to me.


Posted by: Meg Omega | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:30 AM
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Creativity ia like way overrated


Posted by: Siva, Destroyer of worlds | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:03 AM
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||

I heard on NPR that Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize, and I thought it was a joke. I wondered whether there was a fall April Fool's date.

I mean, for what? My favorite bit was that they gave it to him for hoss words about multi-lateralism rather than any actions.

|>


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 4:04 AM
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The Swedish Academy was torn between giving Obama the Peace Prize and taking out a billboard in times square that said "We are trying to influence American politics."


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 4:58 AM
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Also to compliment kids. But that's clearly not what I was doing here.

You compliment my kid right now, Heebie, or so help me....


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:31 AM
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I am surprisingly uncreative for someone in my field. Which is why I like to define my field as "problem solving" and not as "creating stuff creatively with the creativity." I'm also not a great drawerer, which I think I've mentioned before. But I'm a good architect! Puzzling, isn't it?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:40 AM
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My dad once described architecting as being a broker between the client and the engineer. The client doesn't understand that ductwork is necessary, and the engineer wants seven-foot crawlspaces and four-foot ceilings.

On the original post, I like making stuff, but in a very uncreative way -- I really enjoy following difficult directions accurately (baking, knit/crochet/tatting, origami back when I did it more). I'm not much with the creating new stuff that no one had thought about before me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:53 AM
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I like doing creative things -- I play guitar, I take photographs - but I'd find applying the epithet 'creative' to myself to be a bit ... presumptious. As it happens I don't think I'm amazingly brilliant at either, but I have a few things I'm OK at, and I'm fairly versatile. Whether that counts as creative or not, I have no idea.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:56 AM
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The Swedish Academy was torn between giving Obama the Peace Prize and taking out a billboard in times square that said "We are trying to influence American politics."

I thought Sweden was largely left-wing. Surely they must know this will only have bad effects on American politics.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:59 AM
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87: No, it's not.


Posted by: Bakunin | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 11:07 AM
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Pretty much anybody can be creative if they want to be. Just like pretty much anybody can play tennis. The difference is that if you play tennis but you are not good enough to play at Wimbledon people don't make fun of you/ look down on you.


Posted by: Lemmy Caution | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 11:36 AM
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The difference is that if you play tennis but you are not good enough to play at Wimbledon people don't make fun of you/ look down on you.

Lemmy has never been around when I've played tennis.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:47 PM
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97: Lemmy the Koopaling?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:58 PM
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99

I'm moderately creative, but I think I'm more suited to telling creative types what to do. MCMC, life's too short to work a shit job. Start looking for a new one.

See?


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:32 PM
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No one else is going to comment on Ttam's creative spelling?

I'm very uncreative, I think. My brother got all the creative genes in our family.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 4:07 PM
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re: 100

I had to look at that about 10 times before I spotted the mistake. Gah.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 4:29 PM
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99: Okay. How did your interview go?


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 4:45 PM
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100: So your brother has like 30 goddamned kids or something?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 5:01 PM
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104

This thread really demonstrates why Richard Florida is full of shit.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 5:18 PM
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Good, I think.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:27 PM
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Argh! I'm way too slow to keep up with unfogged.

37: That doesn't just look like creativity. That's what creativity is. I'm reminded of a couple passages I read recently:

A long time ago an older and well-known number theorist made some disparaging remarks about Paul Erdös's work. You admire Erdös's contributions to mathematics as much as I do, and I felt annoyed when the older mathematician flatly and definitively stated that all of Erdös's work could be "reduced" to a few tricks which Erdös repeatedly relied on in his proofs. What the number theorist did not realize is that other mathematicians, even the very best, also rely on a few tricks which they use over and over. Take Hilbert. The second volume of Hilbert's collected papers contains Hilbert's papers in invariant theory. I have made a point of reading some of these papers with care. It is sad to note that some of Hilbert's beautiful results have been completely forgotten. But on reading the proofs of Hilbert's striking and deep theorems in invariant theory, it was surprising to verify that Hilbert's proofs relied on the same few tricks. Even Hilbert had only a few tricks!

...

Richard Feynman was fond of giving the following advice on how to be a genius. You have to keep a dozen of your favorite problems constantly present in your mind, although by and large they will lay in a dormant state. Every time you hear or read a new trick or a new result, test it against each of your twelve problems to see whether it helps. Every once in a while there will be a hit, and people will say, "How did he do it? He must be a genius!'"


Posted by: amb | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 3:13 PM
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