Re: Peace Be With You

1

Every news agency in the world is playing a coordinated practical joke on us, right? It's the most plausible explanation.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 5:51 AM
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Oh, whoops, I posted on this simultaneously. I'll delete mine.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 5:54 AM
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I deleted it from the database, but it's not going away. Becks? Do I need to do something else?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 5:57 AM
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I can't believe Obama won. I thought for sure this was Rush Limbaugh's year.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:00 AM
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A friend of mine just pointed out, elsewhere, that the nominations for the Nobels close at the start of Feburary, i.e. 18 days after Obama was inaugurated.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:01 AM
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6

What's more outrageous than Obama winning the Peace Prize is that LB tried to upstage Becks with a duplicate post.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:02 AM
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7

Well, I guess it's less absurd than giving one to Henry Kissinger.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:04 AM
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8

This is... bizarre.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:04 AM
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5: To add to previous disgust - so basically the Nordmann decided to give him a Prize for being black.

Well, that's. Just.

Really.

Really.

Awful.

max
['Ya know, even if one thought Jimmy Carter was an awful President, he really did deserve his Prize.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:04 AM
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10

Lawyers, Guns, and Money has the best joke so far: they predict Obama will next win the AL Cy Young award.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:05 AM
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11

Is there anyone anywhere who thinks this is a good idea? I can't imagine that Obama himself welcomes the idea of a discussion about his contributions to peace.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:07 AM
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5: If I recall, everybody and their brother gets nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, so the February nomination isn't especially weird. Presumably they are basing in on what he's done since then.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:07 AM
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11 was me.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:08 AM
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14

What I wouldn't give to hear that phone call this morning....


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:08 AM
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15

Is there anyone anywhere who thinks this is a good idea?

My Facebook news feed says yes, but it looks like swirly eyes to me.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:09 AM
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It's not entirely surprising: he was Time's Person of the Year in both 2006 and 2008.


Posted by: fedward | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:15 AM
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I don't think its a terrible idea. Seems premature, yeah.... but its growing on me. Ending the policy of American unilateralism toward the world is kind of a big deal, from the world's perspective. So basically, its a prize for not being George W. Bush. I can support that....


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:16 AM
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Ending the policy of American unilateralism toward the world is kind of a big deal

Maybe they should wait until he actually does that.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:23 AM
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17:I'm not George Bush! There are quite a few people who aren't George Bush. Really.

(I think this is about Latvia. Wait, that's Sweden. Which country gives this Novel, anyway?)


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:24 AM
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What if Obama did actually do something to earn the prize and we just don't know about it yet? Maybe Sweden and Norway came within minutes of using hidden nukes on each other?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:42 AM
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21

The Nobel committee missed an opportunity here. If their real goal was to make American wingnuts' heads explode, they should have given Obama the literature prize for Dreams of My Father.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:46 AM
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The Nobel Committee felt so bad about what the Olympics Committee did to Obama that they just felt they had to do something to make him feel better.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:01 AM
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23

We probably have been wildly underestimating how impressed Europe was with the election of a black American President.

Would a foreign-born black be elected/appointed/whatever parliaments do in Sweden, France, England, Poland?

The Europeans might also overestimate American racism, imagining weekly lynchings and secret auctions in Mobile.

Obama's speeches have also given the impression he is actually something different-hopechangey, whereas we Americans know better.

Do European systems have more powerful ministers, so that Europeans would blame Geithner and Gates rather tha Obama? Same with the independent Congress as compared to a Parliament, maybe they blame Afghanistan on Reid & Pelosi.

Maybe the Norsepeoples are insane. Fjords and lutefisky foods.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:02 AM
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Joe Romm points out that the Copenhagen climate talks start on Dec 7 and the Peace Prize is given on Dec 10 in Oslo. But surely there are cheaper ways to entice Obama to that part of the world in December.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:04 AM
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7: Well, I guess it's less absurd than giving one to Henry Kissinger.

That's a bit similar to arguing that Bush the Younger should become President because Nixon got ripped off. (Maybe in 2000, Bush should have won (I don't think so) - maybe he shouldn't have. Maybe Nixon was gypped (I don't think so) - maybe he wasn't. The two things shouldn't have had much to do with each other, and I would hope the Prizes wouldn't either. The Kissenger thing was a mistake, in any event.

15: My Facebook news feed says yes, but it looks like swirly eyes to me.

There's a lot of 'if the wingnuts don't like it, it must be good'. Unfortunately... 'may you live in interesting times'.

max
['Urabn myth or not, the point is still good.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:06 AM
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The Nobel committee likes trolling right-wing blogs. Frankly, who wouldn't give him the prize just to see what Michelle Malkin would make of it?


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:08 AM
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27

20 and 21 are both excellent.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:13 AM
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14:
"No, seriously, Rahm, it's fucking 3am and your fake Swedish accent sucks."


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:13 AM
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If the Nobel committee had read its scripture, it would know that the peace brought by the Antichrist is a false one.


Posted by: Cruyff's Coiffure | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:14 AM
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30

My FB page is a collective "Say what to the what now?" on the issue.

I bet BHO is mortified.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:16 AM
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31

Maybe the rest of the world feels like it needs to nurture any measure the US shows towards peace and common sense. Like, to offset the wingbats with a bit of balance.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:19 AM
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32

Well, that's stupid.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:19 AM
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31: I'm sure he's a bit put-off, but presidents tend to get associated with a defining flaw in the public mind. Clinton = sexy time baby, Bush II = stupid, etc. "Wins just for showing-up" isn't bad as far as these things go.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:21 AM
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I wonder if Obama has the option of turning it down -- like, did he hear about it before this morning, or is he as surprised as the rest of us? Turning it down with a "This would be a great honor if I deserved it, but not yet" would make me get whirlyeyed a bit. Not that I think it's at all likely (or that I know if he's past the point where he might have decided to do so) but that'd be very cool of him.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:25 AM
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12: The best way I can spin this is that they're trying to influence his decision making on Afghanistan, but I think it's more likely that they really do think that him not saying "Fuck you" to rest of the world (Europe) regularly is something to be rewarded.

25.1: It's really not that metaphor at all. In each case the Committee is grading on a curve. What made the Kissinger thing more ridiculous is all the war expanding stuff that preceded the war ending stuff. In this case someone else got to do that first part.


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:26 AM
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34: The year Kissinger won he was supposed to share it with Le Duc Tho. His Vietnamese counterpart turned the award down, pointing out that there was no actual peace in Vietnam.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:29 AM
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37

Has the discussion of what he should do with the prize money started yet?


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:30 AM
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37: Yes.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:32 AM
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34: I can guarantee you that there has already been some time spent this morning on the question of whether he could turn it down without insult. But I think everyone other person who has turned down a Nobel has done so to be insulting. I think he's stuck with it, and my bet is that he is going to all but show his tummy in his speech this morning. Seriously abject, almost but not quite saying he doesn't deserve it, and mentioning by name other people and their work (that he is implicitly saying is more worthwhile).


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:34 AM
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37:

Dear Sir,

My name is Joseph Biden. I am an important official in the government of the United States in America. Recently, we have come into a $1 million (US) of prize money. For political reasons, we cannot spend this money ourselves. It has come to my attention that you are a trustworthy Nigerian businessman. So, I come to you with a proposal to split this prize money if you send me your bank account number.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:37 AM
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41

Best comment I've seen on the topic.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:38 AM
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42

Am I right to assume this means we're pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan? (Because otherwise the award wouldn't make any sense.)


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:39 AM
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43

I bet BHO is mortified.

"This is lovely. But, really, you shouldn't have ..."


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:41 AM
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44

I think "not Bush" truly does sum it up. I mean, how many points did he get for closing Guantanamo Bay?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:41 AM
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45

how many points did he get for closing Guantanamo Bay?

-10 for it still being open.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:45 AM
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46

He won it for death panels.

No, I'm just kidding.

He won it for being good at smiling.

He should give it to an underprivileged child.

Not the money, the actual physical medal. It's probably pretty heavy, and you could wrap it in a sock and use it to kick some bully's ass on the buss.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:45 AM
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41: Best comment I've seen on the topic.

That's pretty good, but, as so frequently in the past, and no doubt similarly in the future, B... alameida FTW: "I guess it will be kind of funny watching wingnuts go into completely justified spasms of outrage, just for a change of pace."

Yes, I just ported that comment over, why do you ask?

max
['They gave him the Nobel Peace Pony!']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:46 AM
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48

Holy Christ. I'm genuinely shocked.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:46 AM
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49

kick some bully's ass on the buss.

We already know, Sifu, that Obama is responsible for black kids beating white kids on the buss. Wouldn't doing it with the Peace Prize medal just add insult to injury?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:51 AM
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Dumbfounded too. Must go see what wingnuts think of this.

I think there's a little more here than "not Bush", though. I mean, if the rest of his term continues as the first year has gone, I don't think the prize would be surprising. (Although, awarding it in an election year would be weird.) Hasn't he already taken the first steps, or at least the most concrete, towards engaging with Iran and Cuba in decades?

I do love the bit about bombing the moon.

23
Would a foreign-born black be elected/appointed/whatever parliaments do in Sweden, France, England, Poland?

Well, Sarkozy is the son of a Hungarian immigrant, and England had a prime minister of Jewish heritage way back in the 19th century. Neither of those are exactly the same, of course, but so little ever is.

24: Cheaper ways to entice someone to the Arctic Circle, in December? I can't think of anything.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:52 AM
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51

Wouldn't doing it with the Peace Prize medal just add insult to injury?

The Nobel commemorates exceptional achievement.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:52 AM
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49: He is totally going to pass that thing around like the Stanley Cup.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:54 AM
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53

Why couldn't it go to someone deserving, like ACORN?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:54 AM
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54

From what I read someplace-or-other (Danger Room), they specifically talked about his commitment to eliminating nuclear weapons, which is interesting both because it shows a very different foreign policy focus from (say) anybody here, and because his commitment seems to be pretty theoretical, except for a couple of apparently unprecedentedly strong statements.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:55 AM
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I think the problem people have with this is people seem to think that the Nobel Prize should be based on achievements rather than efforts. I think the Nobel committee see's it differently... they see it as a way to encourage efforts.

I mean, what has Aung San Suu Kyi actually accomplished with regards to bringing freedom to Burma? Not a hell of a lot - it remains a thugocracy, close to two decades after her Nobel Peace Prize. But her efforts have been honorable and worthy - despite her lack of accomplishments - and I think she's a good example of someone who deserves the prize.

The committee apparently deems Obama's aspirations worthy of encouragement as well. So it doesn't matter that he hasn't achieved all of his goals yet - I think the stated reason for the prize - promoting nuclear non-proliferation - is indeed worthy of encouragement by the Nobel Committee, and Obama certainly has taken positive steps in that direction.

Obama has signed a deal with Russia to reduce the number of nuclear warheads by about 1000 on each side; he's reduced the threat felt by Russia by undoing the stupid plans for anti-missile bases in Eastern Europe, and his efforts at diplomacy have recently gotten Iran to agree to open up one of their formerly-secret nuclear sites to IAEA inspection.

So that's what the prize is for. I don't think its the strongest case in Nobel history, but its not bad.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:58 AM
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56

I do a similiar thing all the time with my daughter:

Me:"I'm going to be SO proud of you when you take your shower."

Her: "NO SHOWER!!!!!!"

Me: "You ARE a shower-taker!!! You will be sooo beautiful!"

Her: "NO SHOWER!!!! "

Me: "You want an A++++ for taking your shower! I know you do!"

Her: "No shower....?????"

Me: "You crazy cat! You love getting A++s!"

Her: " Shower?????"


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:03 AM
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57

gypped

Deprecated.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:04 AM
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58

Geez, fine, Kraab. "Jewed".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:06 AM
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59

"Norwegianed"


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:07 AM
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60

"Welshed"?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:07 AM
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61

Anybody else think that giving the Nobel to the guy who will control the world's strongest military for the next three to seven years is a bit like giving Irony a wedgie in front of his girlfriend?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:07 AM
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62

Really, Kraab, you should let him off Scot free.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:08 AM
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63

his commitment seems to be pretty theoretical

Well, it's all theoretical at this point (even the stimulus, the first thing he passed, is only half-spent), but I think that on this issue, specifically, he has made anti-nuke moves across the board (killed the new US warhead program, eliminated Star Wars from eastern Europe*, has been vocal about getting together with Russia to vastly reduce stockpiles, and handled the Iran thing in a way that was I think very soothing to the world) in a way that is very credible. And I can only imagine that anti-nuke resonates more with the over-50 types.

* BTW, why has no one here mentioned that? It's not concrete, because iirc there were no actual installations in place, but it's a legitimately big deal - the placement of those things effectively represented the official resumption of the Cold War. By killing the program, he said that the US is not interested in that. Big deal, esp. from a Euro-viewpoint.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:08 AM
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64

Maybe the Swedes had in mind Samuel Johnson's quote about the dog walking on its hind legs.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:09 AM
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I wonder if, in a different world where the US media ever mentioned any of these things mentioned in 63, there would still be a public LOL of outrage about this by virtually the entire US population.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:10 AM
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63: yeah, it definitely is gratifying to see somebody uniliaterally pulling back from nuclear armageddon. I mean, I know nuclear armageddon is super 80s, conceptually, but maybe that's even more reason to move away from the Member's Only jacket of existential fears.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:11 AM
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From a domestic political standpoint, it would have been better if this had occurred after some more concrete accomplishments and closer to the 2012 election. As it is it will be totally discounted as the act of starry-eyed Swedish groupies.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:12 AM
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68

Meanwhile, Jonah Goldberg's jumping right in with the Kanye West "jokes".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:13 AM
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63: I have a hell of a time giving him much credit for any of that, because it's all stuff that was obvious and easily within his power. Don't get me wrong, it's great that he's sane, and I'm all for having sane people running the country -- at least when he's doing awful stuff, there's some sense that he meant to and had some plan.

But the Star Wars in Eastern Europe thing was just crazy from the get go -- giving him a prize for not doing that is like giving him a prize for not sticking his head in a bread slicer. Just because we saw Bush repeatedly stick his head in a bread slicer doesn't make having the sense not to impressive.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:14 AM
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I think Greenwald has a fairly good accounting of Obama's impact on peace:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:14 AM
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71

Whoops, Norwegian.

I liked 41.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:14 AM
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72

the placement of those things effectively represented the official resumption of the Cold War.

My understanding is that the Russian's basically viewed it as the first step toward America having first strike capabilities while bypassing the insurance policy of Mutually Assured Destruction. Kind of a big deal from their perspective.

That program marked the turning point from a time when W could look into the eyes of Putin and see his soul, to the time when Putin was affirmatively working to screw US interests whenever the opportunity presented itself.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:14 AM
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73

63 part-pwned by 55.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:14 AM
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74

64 to 69.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:15 AM
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75

closer to the 2012 election

I think we all know that there will be no Peace Prize in 2012.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:16 AM
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76

Maybe this was mentioned upthread, but his nomination would have been made 10 days after he was sworn in.

Someone nominated when he had been in office for 10 days?!??! Ouch.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:17 AM
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It just that it seems so premature! I do wonder whether the Nobel committee thought that the prize would give Obama a legitimacy and clout to make difficult decisions. The prize certainly helped draw attention to Burma/Myanmar and the award to Gore made an important statement about the seriousness of climate change. However, the committee may have miscalculated how the prize would affect domestic US politics for a first-term President...


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:17 AM
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And actually, come to think of it, I do think that having an American administration that is once again (seemingly) committed to the idea of a nuclear weapon-free world is a pretty big deal.

There's an asymmetry where being President of the United States makes it way, way easier to do things that positively or negatively affect the possibility the world will be annihilated. Apparently the Nobel Committee doesn't grade strictly on effort.

Which is to say, that lucky bastard. I bet I coulda won the Nobel Peace Prize if I was President.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:18 AM
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76: anybody can make a nomination. There are zillions made every year. Rush Limbaugh gets nominated every year, seriously. Do you want me to nominate you next time?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:19 AM
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But the Star Wars in Eastern Europe thing was just crazy from the get go -- giving him a prize for not doing that is like giving him a prize for not sticking his head in a bread slicer.

And yet Star Wars survived 8 years of Clinton.

Now, BHO hasn't killed SW (we can still hope), but he walked it back in a way that Clinton never managed to do (iirc WJC reduced the funding, but not by so much that it became a moribund program).

Anyway, you know how we're all pissed about these things he "could do" but doesn't? Well, in the case of nukes, this is something he "could do" and has. Reward good behavior, as we say on the lefty blogs. Think of this as the Norwegian contribution to BHO's reelection campaign.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:19 AM
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81

Well, Sarkozy is the son of a Hungarian immigrant, and England had a prime minister of Jewish heritage way back in the 19th century.

And England, of course, has a millennium-old tradition of employing foreign-born immigrants and their descendants as king. William the Conqueror (French-Norwegian) and his descendants, Henry VII and the subsequent Tudors (Welsh), Jamie Saxt and the Stuarts (Scottish), the Hanovers (German) and, of course, the memorable Dutch king Williamanmary.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:19 AM
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79:

Yes!!! But do it for Physics! Do they have it for Physics? Or maybe Literature.....for my brilliant internet posts.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:21 AM
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83

However, the committee may have miscalculated how the prize would affect domestic US politics for a first-term President

Do you really think it will? The people who hated Obama before will still hate Obama, the people who support Obama will still support him. Its not like anyone is going to decide to become a teabagger because the President won the Nobel Peace Prize.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:21 AM
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84

Someone nominated when he had been in office for 10 days?!??! Ouch.

My understanding is that nominations are somewhat promiscuous. From Wikipedia:

"Forms, which amount to a personal and exclusive invitation, are sent to about three thousand selected individuals to invite them to submit nominations. For the peace prize, inquiries are sent to such people as governments of states, members of international courts, professors and rectors at university level, former Peace Prize laureates, current or former members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee, among others."
It only takes one whirly-eyed optimist among the 3000 to get Obama's name into the hopper.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:22 AM
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85

Jonah Goldberg's jumping right in with the Kanye West "jokes"

"I know this is a historic moment for you Mr. President and I'mma let you finish, but Henry Kissinger was one of the best war-escalating Peace Prize recipients of all time! Of all time!"


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:22 AM
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86

And yet Star Wars survived 8 years of Clinton.

Yes, but Clinton sucked.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:22 AM
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87

I generally agree with 83. This is going to be fodder for the media for a couple days, then the grossly racist and horrible right-wing reactions will be fodder for the blogs for a few days more, and then that'll be the end of it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:22 AM
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88

Anyway, you know how we're all pissed about these things he "could do" but doesn't? Well, in the case of nukes, this is something he "could do" and has. Reward good behavior, as we say on the lefty blogs.

Sure, but you have to hold something in reserve. What does he get for actually doing something difficult and worthwhile? Carve his name into the moon?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:24 AM
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83: I can definately see some concern on the part of the administration that foreign policy not look 'too peaceful' in order to convince independent voters that Obama isn't vulnerable to European flattery.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:25 AM
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A point in favor of 87 is that I had completely forgotten that Jimmy Carter was given the Peace Prize, until the coverage this morning mentioned it.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:25 AM
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86: or, to put it another way, Obama is the first US President in thirty years to recognize the importance of clearly demonstrating a commitment on the part of the world's nuclear power to eliminating its first-strike capability.

I mean, given that this is something that only a US President can do, it's not like there's anybody besides a US President who can be rewarded for it, if you think it's a big enough deal to reward somebody for such things.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:25 AM
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92

What does he get for actually doing something difficult and worthwhile?

World peace is its own reward.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:26 AM
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93

86: Yes, but Clinton sucked.

Almost, but not quite. See my report.


Posted by: Opinionated Ken Starr | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:27 AM
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94

Do you really think it will?

I don't think it will affect the essential argument much, no. But awarding the Nobel is usually an attempt to affect policy, to grant legitimacy, to push events. If Obama weren't said to be incredibly laid-back about his own fame, I would worry that it would be a crushing burden: how the fuck do you live up to that?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:27 AM
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88: the quiet satisfaction of a job well done.

I mean, who cares, though? They have to give this award out every year, he did something laudable and important by the standards of all the other jackasses that were nominated, they gave him the prize. It's not like he's now a Nobel Peace Angel, forever anointed in heavenly like and permitted into the Great Breakfast Bar of Eternal Virtue. It's just a prize.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:28 AM
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86: Not so much that he couldn't keep his head out of a breadslicer.

His dick, of course, was another matter.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:28 AM
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83, 87, 95: Oh, this is all true -- it's not a huge deal. It's just absurd.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:29 AM
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55: I think the problem people have with this is people seem to think that the Nobel Prize should be based on achievements rather than efforts. I think the Nobel committee see's it differently... they see it as a way to encourage efforts.

Maybe what they should do is, is give an actual prize for when someone has actually done something, and give Nobel Peace Gold Stars for good efforts.

max
['Attaboy! Keep it up!']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:29 AM
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88: Well, maybe. now he'll do things because he really wants to. Maybe he needs to given everything first, then he can really start to grow as a person.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:29 AM
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Uh, there should be a transition between sentences 2 and 3 in my last post.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:29 AM
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It's just a prize.

I explained it to Iris as the world's biggest sticker for being good in school.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:31 AM
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A comment over at TPM:

Has the Nobel prize jumped the shark?

Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:31 AM
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21:...they should have given ObamaWilliam Ayers the literature prize for Dreams of My Father.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:32 AM
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The problem with the Peace Prize is the same as the problem with the Oscars™: History suggests they're worthless, meaningless awards, but we just can't stop caring about them.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:32 AM
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104: well, that and the musical numbers have gone way downhill.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:33 AM
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Uh, there should be a transition between sentences 2 and 3 in my last post.

I totally used that in my AP English essay.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:35 AM
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This could also be taken as a mordant reminder of how little anybody with the ability to actually affect anything is doing in the cause of peace. Get the man some stiffer competition.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:36 AM
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Remember the 1935 ceremony with Busby Berkeley's over-the-top staging of "Springtime for Hitler"? The golden age, I tell you.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:36 AM
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In non-Nobel news, Levi Johnston is going to pose nude for Playgirl.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:37 AM
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Apparently the Norwegian govt is not unhappy (litotes!) that the award wasn't given to a Chinese dissident.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:38 AM
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109: The world's going all to shit, but at least we can look forward to hot redneck trade porn.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:39 AM
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108: or '64, when Andy Williams and Connie Francis did "We Shall Overcome" dressed as George Washington Carver and Harriet Tubamn? I mean wow, the showmanship.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:40 AM
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67: Maybe, maybe not. You know how little Americans like foreigners meddling in our domestic politics...

Re: nominees, Wikipedia said this year there were 205 nominations, a record number. So it's not quite as promiscuous as 79 makes it sound, but yeah, there are a lot.

88
Sure, but you have to hold something in reserve. What does he get for actually doing something difficult and worthwhile? Carve his name into the moon?

(a) Yes.
(b) Reelected.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:40 AM
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109, 111: hockey dong!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:40 AM
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109/11: I read somewhere that he's been going to the gym every day in preparation. Commitment!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:40 AM
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You know how little Americans like foreigners meddling in our domestic politics...

Made me imagine a beach full of lilliputian Americans cheering and jumping up and down as giant, grinning, ruddy foreigners stepped ashore in their meddlin' hats.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:42 AM
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115 to the original post.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:42 AM
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They have to give this award out every year

Actually, they don't.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:42 AM
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118: I had wondered that as I typed it. Fie, me.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:43 AM
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But I bet they have to give it out every once in a while or else they'll lose the privilege.

So my point still stands.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:43 AM
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my point still stands.

That's fortunate. You still better hit the gym before the photoshoot, though.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:45 AM
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Maybe Conservapedia will start giving out alternative peace awards.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:47 AM
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121: I've never seen Playgirl, but it was my understanding that they didn't do photos with the point standing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:48 AM
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123: gotta ring the bell to get in the door.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:48 AM
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104
History suggests they're worthless, meaningless awards,

Relative to what? To a nihilist, a strawman hipster (sorry, I spend too much time in Yglesias' comment section), all awards are worthless and meaningless. To the rest of us, well, off the top of my head I can't think of any award for humanitarian work that's even less politicized, any larger prize money for doing good stuff, etc.

(If you ever win it, then, will you give it to me? Because I would be pretty fucking honored.)


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:49 AM
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You know why I bet they did it? Because they can't wait to hear his acceptance speech. That shit's gonna be hot.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:50 AM
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126 to 109.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:52 AM
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Its not like anyone is going to decide to become a teabagger because the President won the Nobel Peace Prize.

I used to be a liberal, but ever since the President won the Nobel Peace Prize I'm outraged over Chappaquiddick!

Eh. If Gorby can get a Peace Prize for trying to reform the Soviet state, then Obama's probably at least as deserving for trying to ratchet down nuclear tensions. What he should do--and I expect that he probably will--is accept the award on behalf of another organization or group of individuals who have worked for peace Levi Johnson.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:53 AM
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Weren't the news articles a few hours ago saying Obama's statement would be at 10:30? What's the delay? I hope there's some huge argument going on about whether to decline the prize.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:58 AM
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What he should do--and I expect that he probably will--is accept the award on behalf of another organization or group of individuals who have worked for peace Levi Johnson. Acorn.

Can you imagine what a pain in the ass vetting these organizations will be? "No, Mr. President, we're still in a dispute with the International Red Cross over detainee treatment. Can't pick them." Doctors Without Borders already won, and besides, there was some kind of scandal recently about them, and of course they're terribly French. Maybe there's a good American anti-landmine group.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:59 AM
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129: It's starting now.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:01 AM
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He could accept it on behalf of "America, Fuck Yeah!"


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:01 AM
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Now-ish.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:02 AM
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Obama: "I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures that have been honored by this prize."


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:05 AM
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130
Maybe there's a good American anti-landmine group.

They won in 1997. Their signature issue was an anti-landmine treaty which America was one of relatively few nations not to sign.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:05 AM
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Ew, he just called himself Commander-in-Chief of the country.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:07 AM
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The White House press corp is apparently populated by dickheads. Who shouted "What will you do with the money Mr. President?" as he was walking away?

Did he really think he'd get an answer?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:11 AM
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Y'know, until I saw him on the Daily Show last night, I hadn't realized that David Gregory is the size of an NBA forward. The guy's towering.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:11 AM
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Can he give this thing to one of the Roman Polanski defense groups? Those people are truly doing God's work on earth.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:12 AM
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David Gregory is the size of an NBA forward

And about as smart.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:12 AM
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138: GWB called him "Stretch," I believe.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:13 AM
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125: Yeah, okay, rhetorical overkill. The Oscars are less meaningful than the Nobel Peace Prize. Still, I can't muster the energy to be truly outraged about bad Nobel decisions -- of course today's announcement devalues the award, but how much should we really care about the value of the award? A little, not a lot.

I suppose I'm just a strawman hipster nihilist. I blame the cold I'm coming down with, three days after my boss walked around the office coughing on everyone.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:13 AM
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136: Really? Ick. I hope it was a slip of the tongue.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:13 AM
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This unfairly diverts attention from the travesty that is the Literature prize.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:16 AM
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144: I'm still waiting for them to honor Rowling.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:17 AM
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Dan Brown all the way, baby.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:19 AM
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Who shouted "What will you do with the money Mr. President?" as he was walking away? Did he really think he'd get an answer?

"I'm going to Disneyworld!"


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:20 AM
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#143. Yeah. Apparently, "Homeland Security" and "Commander-in-Chief" are with us like herpes, now and forever.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:20 AM
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148: Nothing wrong with CinC of the Armed Forces. Of the country, I have a problem with.

We're going to have to elect Kuchinich just to get the country's vocabulary and symbolism back in order, aren't we.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:22 AM
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Kinda like "Detainees"


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:23 AM
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His mention of the Iraq and Afghan wars was clumsy at best. I'll have to go find a transcript to remember the phrasing.

I thought the overall tone was right.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:23 AM
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143 to 142b


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:28 AM
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FTR:

In a late-morning appearance in the Rose Garden, Mr. Obama said that he was "surprised and humbled" by the award, and that he did not feel he deserved to be in the company of some of the "transformative" figures who had previously won it.
"Let me be clear, I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments, but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations," the president said.
Well played.

max
['Nice return volley there.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:47 AM
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109 and 111 and 115: I saw an ad on TV last night with Levi Johnston for some kind of pistachios where he promised to use protection next time.


Re: The Nobel

I think that there were some human rights activists who could have used the money more in the running this year.

Hey oudemia,

Hoisted from the mcmc thread:

Helpy Chalk wrote:

I've been listening to Donald Kagan's ancient Greek history course, and his lecture on the Hoplite phalanx made me suddenly interested in military history.

To which I replied:

I've been listening to that too, because my education totally lacked a decent history component. In fact, I learned more about Roman history in my 9th grade Roman history class than I did in college.
After a couple of lectures, I remembered that I'd heard his name in another context, and I looked it up only to find his neocon connections.
Then, it turns out that he's a huge Victor Davis Hanson fan, so I've started to wondder whether I'm polluting my brain by doing that. But who know? Maybe VDH's scholarship on farming isn't terrible and that it has been informed by his experience as a farmer, though I seem to recall Tassled Loafered Leech sneering at his abilities as a farmer.

What say you?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:52 AM
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85: "Yo Barak, I'm proud of you and I'ma let you finish, but that prize should have totally gone to Wei Jingsheng."


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:56 AM
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154: Ooh, yeah, I want to know the answer, too. You could tell from his very first lecture that he was a right wing creep, but I figured that if I simply discounted all of the stuff about how the Greeks were the only society on earth who did this or that awesome thing, I'd be alright.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:59 AM
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Levi Johnston for some kind of pistachios

You're gonna love my nuts.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:01 AM
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||

OT: There was a 100 year-old woman murdered in her bed in a nursing home. They just said on TV that they think that her 98 year-old roommate might have done it, because she had too many visitors.

The son had asked that his mom be separated from the other woman. It's really terrible, and I was shocked by the murder, but hearing the follow up this morning, it just sounded funny.

Do they have prison nursing homes? I can't really imagine her at a trial, but more than that you can't put the woman into the general prison population? (Assuming, that she did it, that is.)

|>


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:02 AM
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People actually respect D. Kagan's ancient history scholarship.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:05 AM
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Do they have prison nursing homes?

Yes.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:06 AM
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Also, will BHO's prize count toward the UofC's totals?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:06 AM
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Oh, man, they'll have to reprint the tote bags again.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:08 AM
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Thanks, oudemia. What about VDH's stuff on the military and Greek farming?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:16 AM
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Totes, LB, they totes will.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:17 AM
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Adverbing totes weirds language.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:23 AM
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161: I'm sure the News Office is trying to get him to come do a press conference at the Reynolds Club this afternoon.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:27 AM
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67: Yeah. I was wondering how the Wingnuts managed to buy the Nobel committee.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:37 AM
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165: totiter.


Posted by: U. Awl | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:43 AM
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Can the apostropher re-open the Antichrist thread for this special occasion?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 10:52 AM
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The key clue here is that nominations were in February. The only thing he'd done by that point was to make sure John McCain wasn't president ... thus doing more for the cause of peace than anyone in my lifetime.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 11:08 AM
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"Nominations" don't mean anything for the Nobel prizes, do they? I thought the proud claims by some congressman or other that he'd nominated Rush Limbaugh had firmly established that.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 11:09 AM
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Is the Peace Prize really a Nobel? It's not even sponsored by the Bank of Sweden, nor is it in memory of Alfred Nobel.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:04 PM
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And I'm opposed to the modern practice of giving out medals and money to the winners. Nobel Prize winners should take their prize in cartloads of dynamite, just as it was when the prizes were originally established.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:06 PM
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140. And about as smart.

Oh, I don't think that's remotely true. As far as I can tell, Gregory's head is mostly hair, all the way down.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:07 PM
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172: Heh.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:09 PM
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Also, will BHO's prize count toward the UofC's totals?

I think anyone who ever set foot in Hyde Park, or flew through Midway Airport, counts toward the UofC's totals.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:12 PM
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Speaking of economics, DeLong's coming to give a lecture at Reed next month. Heckling suggestions are welcome.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:13 PM
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176: This is, I think, correct. They certainly seem to count (1) anyone who attended (2) anyone who teaches there (3) anyone who ever taught there.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:15 PM
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178: Also anyone who was ever a researcher there. But none of that seems to explain Werner Heisenberg, for instance, who I think never did more than give a series of seminars during a brief visit.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:17 PM
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179: Who really ever knew where he was.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:18 PM
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(People who didn't know how fast he was going.)


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:19 PM
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At Berkeley, this would get Obama a parking space. That would be the ultimate outrage.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:20 PM
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||
I would like to request more Alan Graysons in Congress, please.

We as a party have spent the last six months, the greatest minds in our party, dwelling on the question, the unbelievably consuming question, of how to get Olympia Snowe to vote on health care reform. I want to remind us all that Olympia Snowe was not elected President last year. Olympia Snowe has no veto power in the Senate. Olympia Snowe represents a state with one half of one percent of America's population. [...]

I will not apologize. I will not apologize for a simple reason: America doesn't care about your feelings.

A Democrat who knows how to duck a punch and then hit back harder. I wasn't sure any of those were left in DC.
|>


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:21 PM
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Wikipedia, naturally, has a helpful table that will help you count Nobel affiliates by whatever criteria you prefer. Of note, Columbia does not include affiliates in their "official total" who stayed for less than a year, while U of C does.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:22 PM
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Clicking around a bit, I get to the page of one of this year's Physics laureates, George E. Smith.

Smith served in the US Navy, attained his BSc at the University of Pennsylvania in 1955 and his PhD from the University of Chicago in 1959 with a dissertation of only three pages. [emphasis added]

!


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:27 PM
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Heckling suggestions are welcome.

"When are you gonna make Emerson your co-blogger?"


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:42 PM
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a dissertation of only three pages

"All of my shit is too brilliant to fit in these margins. Now give me the damn doctorate."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:44 PM
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We as a party have spent the last six months, the greatest minds in our party, dwelling on the question, the unbelievably consuming question, of how to get Olympia Snowe to vote on health care reform.

xox.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:46 PM
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183: It gets even better:
"They understand that if Barack Obama were somehow able to cure hunger in the world the Republicans would blame him for overpopulation"

"They understand that if Barack Obama could somehow bring about world peace they would blame him for destroying the defense industry."

"In fact, they understand that if Barack Obama has a BLT sandwich tomorrow for lunch, they will try to ban bacon."

A little confusing because the first "they" in each sentence refers to the American people and the second to the GOP, but it's still good stuff.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 12:57 PM
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Mr. Trend at Alterdestiny has a worthwhile take.

As B has said elsewhere, I think it's hard for us Americans to understand how the last 9 years have looked from the rest of the world, and so I think we don't quite get what BHO represents out there (and not just symbolically). Anyway, read his piece.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:07 PM
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190: Yeah, I've been slowly warming up to the aspirational and symbolic aspects of this throughout the day (after my intemperate remarks this morning in one of the other threads). Rewarding a move away from having insane, demagogic, bomb-happy fuckheads running the country with most of the military and almost all of the nukes in the world is worth rewarding. That said, it certainly is an example of the soft bigotry of low expectations.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:25 PM
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I thought that Alterdestiny point was dumb. Obama deserves the Peace Prize because he went 9 whole months without meddling in Latin America?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:29 PM
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9 whole months without meddling in Latin America

Contrast with "First President in 170 years to pass up an opportunity to meddle in Latin America."

Do you not remember the whole Chavez stupidity under Bush?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:32 PM
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Obama deserves the Peace Prize because he went 9 whole months without meddling in Latin America?

Don't forget not starting a third war in the Middle East.

Don't worry, I've already put McManus's name in for the 2010 Peace Prize.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:35 PM
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I do, but I don't see how that justifies giving it to Obama. The coup against Chavez happened in April of 2002. Does that mean that Bush deserved the Peace Prize up until March of 2002?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:39 PM
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Huh, I didn't know that Norman Angell (of The Great Illusion fame) won the Peace prize in 1933.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:45 PM
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||

Jesus, I could throttle that kid that was just in here. You came to my office hours, and I'm not your goddamn mom, so lay off the sullen 14-year old act, okay? But I'd like to congratulate myself on getting him to barely perceptibly warm up by the time he left. But Jesus, son, get it together.

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:54 PM
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Do you ever get the sense that the world only pretends to be a rational place for long enough to set up expectations of order in your mind, that way it can laugh at you when it totally trashes those expectations?

Its like, you wake up in the morning, and you think you know what is going to happen, but then, someone is selling masturbating dinosaur wall art on Esty. Anchormen tell weathermen to have sex with poultry. Nobel prizes are awarded to people for not being terrible.

I find it all very unsettling.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:55 PM
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Global warming is increasing the amount of entropy on the planet. Increasingly puzzling phenomena are to be expected.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:57 PM
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But Jesus, son, get it together.

Thus sayeth Heebie-Goddie. ...in a Foghorn Leghorn voice


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 1:58 PM
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Nobel Prize winners should take their prize in cartloads of dynamite, just as it was when the prizes were originally established.

I knew that museum was missing something. They sell little chocolate Nobel medals in the gift shop, but you can look for explosives all morning long and be disappointed.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:00 PM
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Global warming is increasing the amount of entropy on the planet.

And now I can't figure out if I should believe the entropy of the Earth is approximately constant, increasing, or decreasing. This worries me.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:11 PM
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I think it should be more or less constant and that global warming shouldn't change that, but my intuition might be failing me dramatically here.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:13 PM
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198: Anchormen tell weathermen to have sex with poultry.

Thank you for reminding me of this. I still laugh when I think about it.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:14 PM
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Increasing.


Posted by: neil | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:16 PM
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And then someone decides to produce a new Bible, translating "Pharisees" as "liberals." And then physicists can't tell you if the entropy of the earth is increasing.

I like to think I'm open to new experiences, but this is all too much for me.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:17 PM
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essear probably wrote one of those three-page dissertations, so he may not actually know much physics.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:20 PM
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you can look for explosives all morning long and be disappointed.

My world and welcome to it.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:31 PM
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||

Got a wedding party to go to tonight (backyard/potluck type thing), and I've got either Swine flu or just a really fucking nasty cold (coughing hurst my throat and my chest - I feel tubercular). I have a feeling I'm nt going to enjoy myself the way I should.

Grumble.

|>


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:33 PM
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209: The important thing is that you infect the wedding party.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:36 PM
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210: Yes, be sure to double-dip your chips.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:42 PM
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I have a feeling I'm nt going to enjoy myself the way I should.

I.e., no making out with the bride.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:43 PM
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187: "I have discovered a truly marvellous proof of this, which this margin is too narrow to contain."


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:45 PM
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But if the earth is warmng up, aren't all the little molecules or atoms or whatever moving faster? Doesn't that mean earth's entropy is decreasing? (Sad but true: everything I know about science I learned from science fiction. Or from my dad.)


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 2:54 PM
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Actually, the entropy of the Earth could conceivably be decreasing, it is only a closed system (i.e. the entire Universe) that must have constantly increasing entropy.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:01 PM
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Poor mcmc, painting a picture of a world being destroyed by decreased entropy, when she's really in a world of increasing entropy.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:03 PM
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My intuition is that the radiation hitting the earth is mostly from the sun, and has a blackbody spectrum, and the radiation leaving the earth is also pretty close to thermal, so for the most part everything going in or out is thermal and thus contains no information. So: constant entropy. Up to things I'm ignoring that might be really important.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:05 PM
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The Earth has the benefit of having the increasing entropy associated with a small bit of the sun to offset potential decreases in entropy (but I'm not sure if the earth actually is gaining or losing overall, depends on the Earth's own radiative characteristics. )


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:07 PM
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209: Sounds like you got the Pig, son.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:12 PM
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The luminosity of the Sun will grow by 10% over the next 1.1 Gyr (1.1 billion years) and by 40% over the next 3.5 Gyr

Increasing.


Posted by: neil | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:24 PM
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Googling "entropy of the Earth" turns up a bunch of crap about creationism.

It's pretty clear that the Earth's entropy is changing very slowly, but global warming did cause a roughly percent-level change in Earth's temperature over the last century, so I expect similar fractional changes in entropy. Not sure about the sign. Probably there's a simple estimate to do based on the top-of-the-atmosphere energy budget, and I am kind of curious. But it's the end of a long week and my brain needs a rest.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:27 PM
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enlighten a poor foreigner: "hockey dong!" -- is this like "tennis elbow!"


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:32 PM
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And then someone decides to produce a new Bible, translating "Pharisees" as "liberals."

A translation gets the readers it deserves.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:33 PM
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So I'm half-listening to the radio this morning while my offspring are talking at me, and I hear "blah blah blah President Obama blah blah blah the prize blah blah blah" and think "no way can they be talking about that prize". Imagination FAIL.

Still, I'm delighted that it's upset the h8erz so much. Frank Gaffney on the BBC sounded like he was having a very bad day.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:34 PM
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having just endured 209, I found that staggering doses of Tylenol Flu with ibuprofen made the day get-through-able.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:34 PM
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...and don't ask me how much medicine I needed to get through the whole thread.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:35 PM
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Sounds like you got the Pig, son.

Yeah, I know. I think I'll be done with it in a few days (based on trajectory), but I've read apo, and I'm afraid.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 3:46 PM
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194: I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Luke 12:49-53)


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 5:01 PM
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Napoleon, of course, already discerned the essence of the modern state; he understood that it is based on the unhampered development of bourgeois society, on the free movement of private interest, etc. He decided to recognise and protect this basis. He was no terrorist with his head in the clouds. Yet at the same time he still regarded the state as an end in itself and civil life only as a treasurer and his subordinate which must have no will of its own. He perfected the Terror by substituting permanent war for permanent revolution

xxxxxxxxxx

Revolution can be achieved either by a nation gathering itself together like a lion preparing to spring, or by a nation in the process of struggle becoming conclusively divided in order to free the best part of itself for the execution of those tasks which the nation as a whole is unable to carry out. These are two opposite sets of historical conditions, which in their pure form are, of course, possible only in logical contraposition.

A middle course in this, as in so many cases, is worst of all


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 5:19 PM
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Playing devil's advocate, sort of:

The typical example on the left of the NPP as travesty is Kissinger. But why not? He did negotiate the end of the Vietnam war. He also pursued a policy of detente with the Soviet Union and was instrumental in ending the Cold War with China. He was also a murdering SOB, and? The NPP is meant to serve as a reward/incentive to pursue good policies or to highlight certain issues. In the former category HK seems a non-crazy choice.

The other example sometimes given is Menachem Begin, but I just don't get the objections there. Peace with Egypt was a huge deal. It was an obvious choice.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 5:20 PM
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As the day has wore on, it has been illuminating boring to watch the liberals adjust themselves to the idea of the baby-killing war criminal getting the Peace Prize.

As usual, the process started by liberals looking to their left toward the outrage of those leftists and Marxists who actually do and have always wanted peace and then gradually moving back to their comfort zone of arguing with Jonah Goldberg and Erick Erickson. Defending their warlord from attacks from the right, as the right defends their warlords from attacks from the left.

This is the health of the state.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 5:49 PM
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Smith served in the US Navy, attained his BSc at the University of Pennsylvania in 1955 and his PhD from the University of Chicago in 1959 with a dissertation of only three pages.

Even cooler, Charles Kuo, one of the people who shares the Physics prize for inventing fibre-optics with him, went to what was then the East London Polytechnic and then worked at Standard Telephones & Cables' R&D lab. No Oxbridge; no university. STC and BT Research in Martlesham Heath invented a lot of this stuff; Southampton University built the first machine to make fibre cable; then Maggie Thatcher sold the patents to Nortel. STC was one of the founding industries in my grandad's hometown - then it became Nortel Networks UK, and then, nothing. That Nortel itself is one with Nineveh and Tyre doesn't help.

The longer you live the clearer it gets that the French are right.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:05 PM
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the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Ain't that the Gospel truth?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:16 PM
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Kissinger did more to earn the Peace Prize than Obama has.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:28 PM
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It took mcmanus an awfully long time to wind up the troll-o-mat today. What's the deal, mcmanus?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:30 PM
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234: Probably true. But he did way, way more tp disqualify himself.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:35 PM
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221

It's pretty clear that the Earth's entropy is changing very slowly, but global warming did cause a roughly percent-level change in Earth's temperature over the last century, so I expect similar fractional changes in entropy. Not sure about the sign. Probably there's a simple estimate to do based on the top-of-the-atmosphere energy budget, and I am kind of curious. But it's the end of a long week and my brain needs a rest.

Don't hotter materials generally have higher entropy because there is more uncertainty about the velocity of the constituent molecules?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:36 PM
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Don't hotter materials generally have higher entropy because there is more uncertainty about the velocity of the constituent molecules?

Right -- for a parcel of an ideal gas, all other things being equal, higher temperature means higher entropy (more ways of partitioning the kinetic energy among the molecules). And this is pretty generally true (not for black holes, but for most of the less exotic things around).

I'm just a little unclear on applying it to the earth, though, since we're not just raising the temperature with all else kept equal. It's really a question about what's being radiated to the outside universe and how that changes as a result of global warming.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 6:52 PM
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Nah, I think this was straight up the right thing to do, and bang in line with what the Nobel was set up for. Obama's arguably the greatest statesman holding office, and this is a prize, on one level, for statesmanship.

And yes it is from a Marxist point of view a crock of shit, but then so what, the whole idea of a bourgeois `peace prize' is a crock of shit; all one can do is hold them to consistency & in this case I think they are being consistent.

Obama's done quite serious things for peace & maybe he isn't perfect, but I think he does deserve it.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:06 PM
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Henley is good today, but you know who I really like?

IOZ

Who apparently wrote a poem on the Obama PP travesty, and summed up the Roman Polanski extradition in one sentence:

Consider: one does not disarm, dismantle, disassemble, or even inconvenience the goddamned patriarchy by availing oneself of its systems of coercion.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:06 PM
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Henley is good today

Obama's proposals to reduce and eventually eliminate nuclear weapons are good ones, and should anything ever come of them, would be prizeworthy at that time. Barack Obama, God love him, has continued the American military presence in Iraq, spread the war in Afghanistan to Pakistan, continued to rain remote death down on Somalis who wander too close to people our famously inept intelligence operations flag as enemies and continues to keep "all options" on the famous "table" regarding the country sitting between Iraq and Afghanistan. His administration proposed and will approve a real increase to the world's most bloated military budget. The Committee might as well give the Biology Prize to the Discovery Institute.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:17 PM
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239: Nah, I think this was straight up the right thing to do, and bang in line with what the Nobel was set up for. Obama's arguably the greatest statesman holding office, and this is a prize, on one level, for statesmanship.
No, it's the Nobel committee's award for "Most Improved".


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:20 PM
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But hang on, those are not the standards the Peace Prize is judged on; look at Leon Bourgeois and Woodrow Wilson, or David bloody Trimble or Arafat/Rabin/Begin or even F. W, de Klerk.

The point is not to find saints; it is to reward, essentially, politicians who have made it less likely that there will be armed conflict. By that standard, Obama is a very good winner.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:27 PM
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243 to 241; yes I do think this is the Nobel's `most improved', again look at Trimble or de Klerk, not exactly nice people.


Posted by: rieK | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:28 PM
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de Klerk had made very real movements towards ending a long-standing crime against humanity. Obama has done... ?

It's really not a reasonable comparison. If he'd received the prize in 1990, because at least he wasn't Botha, it would be a lot closer. Even then he'd done more in eight months.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:44 PM
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Obama's made noises about nuclear weapons though, which is a good reason to give it to him (& yes Lange was robbed but.)

The argument is against the `but he's involved in a war' thing; the Nobel Peace Prize is not a prize for nice people, it's a prize for big, important people who do big important things. Unfortunately, that means they will include a bunch of rather unpleasant people, like de Klerk and Arafat and so-on.

And maybe there's something wrong with prizes for big important people, but that's what the Nobel is, so.

(And I also like the fact it is a big slap in the face to the Republicans. That's a step towards world peace all on it's own.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 7:58 PM
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246: it's a prize for ... people who do ... things
Yes, exactly.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:10 PM
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Consider: one does not disarm, dismantle, disassemble, or even inconvenience the goddamned patriarchy by availing oneself of its systems of coercion.

I've considered, and I think that's completely wrong. The master's tools can too disassemble the master's house.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:11 PM
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And "making noises" is really not sufficient. If he'd really done something for nonproliferation, or better for reduced incidence altogether, it'd be completely reasonable and I'd be all for it. He hasn't.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:14 PM
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There is no biology Nobel.

It was for winning the election. If you think the cause of peace would have better served with Bombin John, you are clueless. BHO was the much lesser evil among several bad choices.


Posted by: Turgid jacobian | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:19 PM
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It's bizarre to see bob and Keir on opposite sides. Sort it out between the two of you, please, and I'll read the committee report.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:29 PM
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But why not? He did negotiate the end of the Vietnam war.

Five years after helping Nixon scuttle the 1968 peace talks for electoral advantage; in the intervening time, he helped pave the way for the Cambodian catastrophe through the illegal bombing of Cambodia. See also: Chile, East Timor, Bangladesh, et cetera ad nauseam. No doubt he brought a feeling of peace to such monsters as Pinochet and Yahya Khan.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 8:56 PM
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250.2 was pointless and dumb. Please disregard!


Posted by: Turgid jacobian | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:08 PM
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Now why the hell did I read this whole thread?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:12 PM
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254: There has to be a pony under there somewhere.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:14 PM
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You'd think so, wouldn't you?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:19 PM
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A magic name-adding pony!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:20 PM
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Yay, it's Nobel the Peace Pony!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:22 PM
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If he'd really done something for nonproliferation, or better for reduced incidence altogether

Isn't 1000 fewer warheads apiece for the US and Russians "doing something"? Or do you not credit a signed treaty?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:23 PM
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I have a theory! (I will check back through the thread in a second to see how thoroughly gepwnnt I am, but I wanted to get this down first.) Here is my theory: the one really positive upside to Obama's winning the peace prize I can see is strengthening his moral legitimacy and credibility in the Iranian nuclear negotiations. Iranians tend to be impressed by things like Nobel prizes, and Obama's team maybe could use a little legitimating in the upcoming train wreck. Actually, these days, I'm sort of hopeful that we'll all manage to avoid nuclear meltdown in the middle east for at least five years, but a firmer foundation for peace would sure be nice.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:26 PM
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Iranians tend to be impressed by things like Nobel prizes

Oooh, shiny.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:28 PM
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They smell nice, too.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:37 PM
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259: Isn't 1000 fewer warheads apiece for the US and Russians "doing something"?
No, not really. I don't want to demean it as positive steps go, but it's not Nobel-worthy. It's a numerical rather than a qualitative difference and a continuation of a long-standing (if stalled) trend. It's entirely possible that in a year or two there'd be something genuine in that area to hang the award on, but they've shot their wad now.


Posted by: wispa | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:37 PM
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262: With their big noses.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 9:40 PM
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259: It means that perhaps East Bumfuck won't be glowing glass if "mistakes were made". Its inhabitants can wait for the fallout to kill them.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 10- 9-09 11:57 PM
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252 But he did end it, and that's when he got it. Neither Begin nor Sadat were exactly model peacemakers before they made peace. As for the other stuff, in terms of increasing or reducing the chance of interstate conflict, Chile had no impact whatsoever, detente on the other hand was progress.

I think you can see the NPP as either statesmen doing what the original purpose of the award was, and Kissinger seems like at least a non-crazy choice for that one, or highlighting a cause (e.g. Gore, Walesa, Tutu, Mechu, etc.). Obama falls in a weird third category of 'you've made lots of nice statements, and some positive small steps, now go further'


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 12:20 AM
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Phil Nugent:

Read the list of Nobel Peace Prize laureates and the citations attached to their awards, and you will notice many variations on the phrase "for his/her/their efforts". Not successes, mind you, but efforts. Considering that Yasser Arafat got one, in tandem with Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin, for his "efforts to create peace in the Middle East", which some might argue is kind of like giving Susan Atkins an award as Midwife of the Year.

A good day for analogies, all around.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 2:16 AM
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Guys! Sleeping on the floor is ok sometimes.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 2:28 AM
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It was for winning the election. If you think the cause of peace would have better served with Bombin John, you are clueless. BHO was the much lesser evil among several bad choices.

Why not give it to whoever caused the financial crisis? Because that really sealed the deal.


Posted by: Commenter-in-exile | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 5:58 AM
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Why not give it to whoever caused the financial crisis? Because that really sealed the deal.

Sure. Let's use a cannon to shoot the medal at them.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 6:32 AM
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re bob quoting marx, engels and trotsky @229: m&e (and mcmanus) are materialists, hence cannot sensibly be down with the speculative idealism of leon's "in its pure state" -- this pure state never existed in history and never will, hence its use as analysis of the quality of the situation is to say the last questionable... we will never NOT be in a "middle course"

LT was often good at mapping where and how the opposed forces really lay; he was almost always terrible -- once no longer the revolution's own designated buonoparte himself! -- at describing or creating ways out of the impasse


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 8:16 AM
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last s/b least


Posted by: tierce de lollardie | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 8:17 AM
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Dead thread? I'll troll.
||

1) Reading Marxist Arno Mayer Furies. Just another detailed comparison of French & Russian Revolutions, started in 1989 as the righty assholes like Schama were revisioning in order to justify the Reagan/Thatcher years. Mayer started working with Furet, but they eventually fell out. Mayer emphasizes that all revolutionary forces generate, so to speak, the opposition counterrevolutionary forces. Dialectical, duh.
The counter-R forces were/are at least as responsible for slaughter as the revolutionaries.

Mayer, a Jew, is very controversial for his interpretation of the Holocaust. He thinks the anti-semitism had its roots in anti-cosmopolitanism/anti-communism. IIRC, Mein Kampf is much more passionate about conquering Russia than destroying Jews, although of course they were related in Hitler's mind. Lenin of "Lenin's Tomb" says "race is class" and I could be controversial myself and say that American racism all the way back was more about the resistance to collapsing heirarchies than skincolor.

Mayer also interprets most of the horrors of the first half of the 20th as derived from reactionary attempts of the upper classes to preserve their privileges in the face of industrialization and democratization. Again, obviously relevant today.

But Furies is mostly straight history, with numbers and stuff, to show that the bloodshed came from both sides.

|>


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 10:12 AM
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I also have to get back to Paul Avrich on the Russian anarchists.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 10:19 AM
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248:The master's tools can too disassemble the master's house.

Trying to be nice here. Liberals.

Umm, I wish you luck as you invest your hopes and dreams in the valiant dedicated struggle of Obama, Summers, Geithner, Frank, and Schumer to break and control Goldman-Sachs.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 10:35 AM
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275 is good stuff. The pivot wherein supporting Polanski's arrest means that you are definitionally on the side of Larry Summers, whatever he does? Smooth! Nonsensical, but nicely done.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 10:46 AM
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Yes, bob's in fine trolling form today.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 11:00 AM
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276:Ok, I didn't really want to address it directly, and I don't speak for IOZ, but a feminist shooting that fucker Polanski on the streets of Paris around 1983, with the following politicized trial would have attacked the patriarchy at both ends.

But apparently modern feminists want the daddy state to protect them.

(Been reading Paul Avrich defend Berkman's shooting of Frick. Yes, Goldman-Sachs and Polanski are connected, or would be in a political theory not distracted by identity and passive liberalism.)


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 11:32 AM
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Trying to be nice here.

Mm-hm.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 11:34 AM
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Too bad we can't all be as active and undistracted by identity as you, bob.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 12:18 PM
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Goldman-Sachs and Polanski are connected

Kevin Bacon's in there too. Will you connect the dots for us Bob?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 12:46 PM
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280:Reading Zizek as the anti-Foucault can help you out, MM


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 1:47 PM
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Just so I know, is it now okay to hope trains and planes run on time?


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 2:38 PM
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283: What part of "inconveniencing the goddamned patriarchy" don't you understand?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 2:51 PM
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282: I'm too busy personing the barricades and shooting enemies in the streets to do this passivist reading crap you're advocating, bob.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10-10-09 4:45 PM
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Goldman-Sachs and Polanski are connected

Punchline to joke: "At least with Polanski, you have thirteen happy years before you get screwed."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-12-09 9:06 AM
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But hey, Elinor Ostrom, high time.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 10-12-09 1:58 PM
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Why not give it to whoever caused the financial crisis? Because that really sealed the deal.

I BELIEVE THAT WAS OBAMA, AKA ACORN, AKA THE FAIR HOUSING ACT. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. THESE GUYS ARE RACIST AND RUTHLESS.


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDPA | Link to this comment | 10-12-09 2:07 PM
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