Whatever, is shoddy journalism unless it mentions how much money the specified politician is recieving from each blandly-named PAC, and who funds the PAC.
This doesn't just apply to the health care debate.
1: Oh yes.
I mean, I have no idea what you're talking about.
To me, the more serious problem with all the "news" about the health care debate is that it's largely factually incorrect, content-free speculation/balloon-floating/gasbaggery. Reporting on the day to day back and forth of this process as if each real or imagined reversal had something to do with the final bill is eerily reminiscent of looking at day-to-day temperature changes as meaningful indicators of climate change.
With all that said, the big picture seems to be that the prospects for meaningful health care reform are far, far better than they've ever been in this country, right at this moment.
is eerily reminiscent of looking at day-to-day temperature changes as meaningful indicators of climate change.
Today is COLD! Guess all those liberal what-nots are wrong with their global warming non-Jesus!
Scratch the "more serious" in 5 and replace it with "more immediately aggravating". The fact that the senate is essentially a sewer of corruption buried under a vast infestation of money-shitting lobbyists is obviously a reasonably serious problem, but you know, same as it ever was.
With all that said, the big picture seems to be that the prospects for meaningful health care reform are far, far better than they've ever been in this country, right at this moment.
So do you think it would be meaningful reform without a public option?
I kind of think that if they can effectively end the abuses by the insurance company and reform fee-for-service standards, it might be. Not ideal, but meaningful.
7: Butif you di deep enough you find Olympia Snowe, the Magic Bipartisan Pony
But if you dig. But if you dig. But if you dig.
8: any of the proposals on the table now would be a huge change. The institutional momentum now is probably towards making a bill constituents won't hate (and which can't be run against) which augurs well. The key isn't the public option, really. The key is reforms that don't blow up or make people angry. The public option is just (seemingly) the best current way to achieve that. If people think a bill's going to pass, they won't want it to be widely loathed when it does.
prospects for meaningful health care reform are far, far better
Nah. Compared to Europe? Singapore? Canada? Fricking Mexico?
The best we will get is probably shite, and I still expect it to be worse than nothing, in other words, a net minus for most Americans. There are no significant mechanisms for cost control, and what is absolutely needed is to hammer down the providers.
Most optimists think "we can make it better further on" as in expanding the "public option" beyond the 10%. Ain't gonna happen. Debt peonage, "serfification"
Read closely a DeLong takedown of socialism this week in which he exulted in calling himself a neo-liberal. We are fucking doomed, the wages of China without the growth or opportunity or benefits. This is the plan, and they are proud of it.
And tweety thinks we are getting "meaningful health reform." What do you read ST, Yggles and Klein? You are buying your own tribal bullshit.
So do you think it would be meaningful reform without a public option?
Yeah, I think it's worth distinguishing between meaningful reform (which any of the current proposals would be) and ideal reform. This is also only going to be the first step, one hopes.
12 took longer than I thought it would. That's it for me in this thread!
Compared to Europe? Singapore? Canada? Fricking Mexico?
The likelihood of a European-style health care system in this country remain approximately nil, but that's not the only meaningful reform outcome.
There are no significant mechanisms for cost control, and what is absolutely needed is to hammer down the providers.
This is absolutely true, but I think the hope is to follow Massachusetts: expand coverage first (making everyone a stakeholder) and then attack cost.
and then attack cost.
Hey, I'm a healthcare cost.
Ian Welsh
Health Reform is a Clusterfuck ..."and those pushing for it are being taken."
and why not, also Ian on the financial reform
Health care is a sprawling subject that is hard for a newspaper to get right.
Clark Hoyt, public whatever for the NYT, 10/11/09
I mean, it's a hard, hard job. Even harder than Presidenting. Surely we can't expect a major operation like the Times to get it right. Only people like bloggers have the resources.
The debate on politics of the health care system is one fat trolley car driver away from being how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Being burned as a heretic is not covered under your plan.
||
I find these artists and their work unbearably sexy. I'm not sure that was the reaction I was supposed to have.
Link via Carrie Brownstein.
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I am going to be 2 kinds of off topic:
1. Hulu is going to start charging for content. (Good luck with that, Streamy.)
2. I made the terrible mistake of reading the comments at Politico on a post about the elderly veteran speaking for marriage equality (horrifying), but worse, the comments on the new Obama family portrait (shaking with fury, hateful lunatic racist stuff about children that they are not moderating). WTF?
23: They might be able to get away with it if they charge for individual shows, rather than having a big, flat subscription fee for the whole site.
Perhaps what I really mean by "get away with it" is "I would be willing to pay the money." Otherwise, I'm going to go to a DVD-box-set-of-a-whole-season mode of watching TV.
I know I am terribly old school, but I can't pay for tv shows that I can watch for free, or grew up watching for free. Hundreds of dollars for a boxed set of "Get Smart"? I can practically deliver the lines myself. Would you believe, a bad Don Adams imitation?
24: Even individually, though -- how much less can they charge than iTunes $1.99? After you pay that $1.99 to iTunes you own a fairly high quality (although heavily DRMd) file. I can't imagine Hulu charging less than $1 (for an eh streamed copy). But I have no idea what I am talking about, really, so there's that.
Obama Wants a Trigger ...Jane Hamsher
Harry Reid thought he had the votes for an "opt-out" public option but the WH is trying to talk him away from it. For those who though Baucus and Snowe were the problems, the WH is more conservative than Harry Reid.
Obama is our enemy. A lot of the way the discourse is going is based on a covert understanding of who that SOB is. Yglesias talks up VAT and taxing HC benefits because he knows Obama will never significantly raise taxes on the rich or UMC.
But "Obama is better than Sarah Palin", so I should STFU and love him?
Yglesias talks up VAT and taxing HC benefits because he knows Obama will never significantly raise taxes on the rich or UMC.
Uh, wouldn't the VAT and taxing HC benefits fall much more heavily on the middle class than the rich or the UMC? Certainly taxing HC benefits would hit the middle class hardest in percentage of income terms.
Go ahead, whiz by me with your "facts" and "detailed understanding of the situation".
The Senate is always like this. The health care companies are pushing a lot of money into Senator's pockets, senators tend to have oodles and oodles of money, so they don't care too much about poor people, but a lot of Democrats are feeling their constituents pain over healthcare costs, so everyone (as usual) is primarily trying to be on the right side of the media. The R base was effective in pushing the debate to the right and giving cover to allow various conservative Democrats to take up their natural positions (MORE MONEY FOR RICH PEOPLE), and the left has partly succeeded in screaming loudly enough (against Obama, Democratic Senators, DC corruption and what have you) to push the thing back to the left, since the base has the facts on their side, and more in particular, the ability to make it clear they will desert the D's in the midterms if the D's fuck this up. And without bipartisanship, the D's have no one but their base.
So the ins and outs are simple: all politicans are scumbags with spines made of cheesewhip who will take the money and run if they get the chance. If they can't get away with it, they'll obey whichever side yells loudest.
If you are no longer representing your constituents, and simultaneously recieving money from some entity which benefits from your decisions, you're corrupt, and that word needs to be tossed around a lot more.
The basic problem with the concept (which I agree with as confused as it actually is) is: what constitutes a 'constituent'? Rich people who give oodles and oodles of boodle and strudel? Poor people who don't vote? Confused middle class people who want higher spending (preferably infinitely large amounts) and lower taxes (preferably zero/infinitively small)?
Blanche Lincoln is responding to the majority of her constituents, which apparently consists of Walmart and Blue Cross. It is not pure egalitarian democracy, but pure egalitarian democracy has never existed anywhere, and the closest variants have pretty shitty track records.
max
['Good government: it exists only in our idealized memory.']
Hundreds of dollars for a boxed set of "Get Smart"?
The profitable aftermarket of DVD box sets seems to be almost non-existent. At my local record store, I routinely see used box sets selling for 50 or 75% (or more) off the new price. And even at those prices, they aren't exactly flying off the shelves.
Add to 30: HG, we're in much better shape on the healthcare front than we were in August (not that it couldn't still go south). We're in worse shape everywhere else.
max
['That's the box score.']
A lot of the way the discourse is going is based on a covert understanding of who that SOB is.
He's Kenyan. Haven't you heard?
That link is sourced to a Politico story that is pretty clearly blue dog pushback. I can see why Jane wants to fundraise from it, but to cite it as fact is a bit much.
Very topical for me, as my insurance company just denied me further coverage for physical therapy. This based on the evaluation of some little functionary who has never talked to me, never talked to my doctor or my physical therapist, and bases his or her evaluation entirely on answers to questions on forms. Presumably said functionary will be fired if he or she fails to deny a sufficient number of claims. The thing that fills me with rage is that if I go ahead and pay out of pocket it's $112 per visit, whereas the insurance company paid $15, with a $30 copay. That bullshit about the insured subsidizing the uninsured is genuine bullshit. If I'm paying $80 more per visit, and the PT office gets $67 more per visit, I'm the one doing the fucking subsidizing, not United Fucking "Health" "Care."
The basic problem with the concept (which I agree with as confused as it actually is) is: what constitutes a 'constituent'? Rich people who give oodles and oodles of boodle and strudel? Poor people who don't vote? Confused middle class people who want higher spending (preferably infinitely large amounts) and lower taxes (preferably zero/infinitively small)?
Your constituents are the residents of the area that you represent. They don't have to have voted for your, or have contributed money, or have voted at all.
33" took longer than I thought it would. That's it for me in this thread!"
Going to my KKK meetup.
What does 33 have to do with you?
Boy can I ever not wait until this healthcare stuff is done.
Speaking of which, I finally got my new insurance card yesterday (turns out they sent it to my mom's house instead of mine). Now I can get my prescription refilled after nearly a month of doing without it! USA! USA!
Boy can I ever not wait until this healthcare stuff is done.
Then, hopefully, comes regulation of co2 (and other global warming gasses). That will be even more fun.
Wow, maybe we could reform farm subsidies after that!
Boy can I ever not wait until this healthcare stuff is done.
Gets it completely right. That said, the upside is that the coverage of the debate on political blogs has made me realize that political blogs are very nearly as bad as cable news, so at least I have more time in my day.
Wow, maybe we could reform farm subsidies after that!
After that we can implement multi-member districts and single transferable votes.
All of the proposals are throwing a fair bit of money at subsidies, so I think we'll end up with fewer people with no coverage. That's probably better for them than the status quo, even if it is lining the pockets of the insurance industry to do so. We might even get a little more regulation of the industry out of it, and pretty much anything is a net positive there.
Will it be better for UMC me (or for the hypothetical me who lives somewhere other than Massachusetts)? Probably not, but I don't really need more coddling.
Wow, maybe we could reform farm subsidies after that!
I can't tell if you meant to make the link between our insane agricultural policy and anthropogenic climate change. Either way, reforming farm subsidies, not to mention significantly raising grazing fees on federal lands, would be one decent, albeit probably relatively small, step toward combat global warming (or whatever you want to call it).
the comments on the new Obama family portrait (shaking with fury
Look, I don't like the weird moire effect on that green wallpaper any more than anybody else, but that just seems over the top.
For some reason Letterman reran the 4 week old Obama interview last night, and we happened to tune in (Rome was over and I was checking to see if the game was still on), and I could actually see AB's eyes get all swirly. I'm trying to decide whether or not to direct her to the family pic - she may cease being a functioning helpmeet.
47: One decent, albeit probably relatively small, step for [a] man; one positive--and likely monstrously huge--step for mankind.
I just got off the phone with my insurance company, and it's clear they are playing a nasty little game. They want to individually approve each physical therapy session (despite doctor's orders from an actual doctor who talked to me, saw my MRI, and ordered 12 weeks of PT), requiring a phone consultation with the therapist and a bunch of paperwork each time. Given that they pay less than half of full price per visit, the additional workload for the therapist is enough of a burden that the PT is better off not treating me at all, which is probably why she was kind of cold and distant today.
On the plus side, at least I don't live in one of those socialist hellholes where the goal of medicine is healing rather than making money. So at least there's that.
44:that political blogs are very nearly as bad as cable news
Depends on the blogs, I think
Louis Proyect on the poet and motorcyclist Frederick Seidel
compared to
Michael Berube and commenters gleeful contempt for an inarticulate Marxist
But I see plenty of the Berube attitude over at EotAW, he even comments there. I suppose I should try to explain how Proyext vs Berube connects to Obama & healthcare, because it does in my analysis of "the expropriation of progressive identity politics", as Richard Estes described it so well, but Berube a superstar and Proyect is apparently yet another object of derision for the enlightened post-structuralist "left", so I just can't seem to care anymore.
Oh. And "Peggy rules", as Berube says Maybe she will start her own firm and become a zillionaire. Such is the new progressive utopianism.
I presume rob was bringing up farm subsidies to make the point that reform there is never going to happen, so let's not get ahead of ourselves. That said, 47 is of course correct.
52: So at least there's that.
"There won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So you got that goin' for you, which is nice.
I am actually looking forward to the cap-and-trade debate, both because it's a subject I am very interested in and actually know a bit about (as opposed to healthcare, where I'm really at the mercy of blogs and the media for my information) and because from what I've seen it actually looks pretty plausible that we'll get a not-terrible bill passed fairly soon.
I was just thinking of farm subsidies as another intractable debate where advocating even the most common sense measures are considered political suicide.
That said, I am well aware of the link between ag policy and climate change. For that matter, I am well aware of the link between ag policy and heath care.
In general, the closer you get to discussing the basic means by which people make a living on this planet, the more deeply fucked up the issues are. So the real villains are always agriculture and energy policies. Most of the worlds ills can be traced specifically back to oil and cash crops.
Depends on the blogs, I think
Fair enough. But if you can show me a political blog that has done a consistently good job covering the health care debate, it will be the first one that I've seen.
(a) I agree wholly with heebie's post. Journalism that doesn't talk about who has or has not bought the loyalties of the decision makers isn't journalism, it's advertising.
(b) I sometimes wonder whether the Democratic Party is sufficiently clever to have used healthcare as a giant media sponge: let the media talk about it endlessly so they can do things like pass hate crimes laws and drop pointless "enforcement" activities against legal dispensaries, etc., while everyone's distracted.
For that matter, I see a small decisions by federal agencies that I like two or three times a week these days. Listing a species or expanding habitat designations or cleaning up the mothball fleet in the Bay. Small stuff, but so nice to see. If those are getting done because the opposition is distracted by health care, I'll take it.
59b. There is no chance that media would keep talking about health care when drugs and crime related stuff are happening in Congress. That's like being pantless on a public bus and having a friend tell knock-knock jokes in hopes that nobody notices.
Most of the worlds ills can be traced specifically back to oil and cash cropshumans.
Snark aside, 57.last is correct.
There is no chance that media would keep talking about health care when drugs and crime related stuff are happening in Congress.
But isn't that basically what's happened? The Obama AG office has decided not to prosecute medical marijuana. (A fb friend of mine also claimed that the AG was asking people if they were going to finish that pizza, but he may have been joking.)
They want to individually approve each physical therapy session (despite doctor's orders from an actual doctor who talked to me, saw my MRI, and ordered 12 weeks of PT)
This seems unreasonable. Put in a call to your state's insurance commissioner about it. Maybe they will support you, maybe they wont, but the important thing is to make sure the insurance company knows you are working with them. Insurance companies live in fear of the insurance commissioner, so they may give you what you want just to make your complaint go away.
63: I thought that was covered fairly broadly for what is basically a small step.
64: Thanks. I was not even aware that such a thing as insurance commissioner existed. Angry calls to elected representatives are already in the offing, but a regulator might be the key to putting the fear of god into those pricks.
We are getting closer to a public option in the Senate.
If you are no longer representing your constituents, and simultaneously recieving money from some entity which benefits from your decisions, you're corrupt, and that word needs to be tossed around a lot more.
The thing is that in most cases your constituents are also taking money from that entity -- the lobbies with the most clout are big employers in the state or district.
cleaning up the mothball fleet in the Bay
Thanks, Megan. This little comment led me to a nice, satisfying surf about new things (I knew about mothball fleets in general, but not about this one, nor about the one that used to be in the Hudson*, nor about this guy who has all of these family pics from the 40s and 50s on his personal site). Much better than thinking about HCR.
* That's a river in the East, where rivers are full of lots of water all year. I'll tell you all about it sometime.
67: UPMC (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center) is both a health care provider and an insurance company. It employs something like 50,000 people, which means that second place doesn't really matter as far as this region goes. And that 50k doesn't even count people like me who technically work for somebody else.
"If you can't take their money, drink their liquor, fuck their women, and still vote against their bill, then you don't belong in politics." -- Jesse Unruh
70: Sexist and/or heteronormativist.
I could have probably spelled that last one better.
The thing is that in most cases your constituents are also taking money from that entity -- the lobbies with the most clout are big employers in the state or district.
Since when does being employed by someone does not mean they represent your best interests?
73: Yes, but when the 4th person on my street got laid-off....
at least I don't live in one of those socialist hellholes where the goal of medicine is healing rather than making money
Altruism doesn't pay the med school loan. Not that the healers are as motivated by greed as the Wall Street bankers, but most are not down at the free clinic on Tuesdays. They're playing golf.
75: How does that support or refute which side again?
77: Which side as far as ethics? I don't know. I am fairly certain that none of the local members of Congress will cross UPMC without some extraordinary circumstance regardless of any contributions. They butter the bread of too many people, especially at a time when the other churns are leaking.
where rivers are full of lots of water all year.
You guys must have huge reservoir capacity if you can do sustained releases all year round. That's awesome.
... is shoddy journalism unless it mentions how much money the specified politician is recieving from each blandly-named PAC, and who funds the PAC. ...
So every news story should list every campaign contributor of any politican mentioned? Not very practical. Better to just assume they all are on the take.
79: And we run around without our stillsuits for three, four, sometimes even five, months out of the year!
80: Is exactly what a corrupt politicians would want.
35
... The thing that fills me with rage is that if I go ahead and pay out of pocket it's $112 per visit, whereas the insurance company paid $15, with a $30 copay. ...
Have you tried asking for a discount on the $112?
83: Reminds me that I heard a nice piece on TAL yesterday about the "coupon" game and non-generic drugs.
So every news story should list every campaign contributor of any politican mentioned?
I was thinking the relevant contributors should just appear on the screen next to their name and party affiliation. George Smoot R-GA, United Health Care, 500K.
83: Asking for a discount is the last thing I'll try after I exhaust the possibilities for getting the insurance company to stop behaving like evil pricks. If it comes to that I'll also be looking for physical therapists willing to exchange therapy for tutoring their kids or some such thing. The point is not just getting needed medical care. It's also a matter of getting the insurance company to provide the service they are supposed to be providing.
79: It's this advanced technology -- the reservoirs are lighter-than-air, on an automatic intermittent release schedule. Occasionally we get a glitch that lessens flow, but never enough to shut the rivers all the way down.
83, wow, I just tried that and it works! They say 112, I say how about 75, and it's a deal! I also just got 7 bucks off lunch, and a shiny new prius for $10k. This is so awesome. Thank you, James.
the reservoirs are lighter-than-air, on an automatic intermittent release schedule
Actually, if you want the fiddly details, the reservoirs are heavier than air but use solar power to generate lift.
88: there are more than a few commercial operations where merely asking for a discount will get you one in most cases. These policies are rarely publicized for obvious reasons, but they do exist. I have no idea if togolosh's situation is one of them, but medical care is a field in which price discrimination makes a lot of sense, so it's worth asking.
79, 87: I don't know which one of you I love more.
90: You're not bad either, Nick.
I was particularly impressed with Nick'S fiddly details, but I'm still not getting how y'all run the system. That's OK. I don't have to.
Wierd. What did they think would be in the river after the flood has passed?
but I'm still not getting how y'all run the system.
It's actually a form of magic so advanced it's indistinguishable from technology.
In one sense it's corruption, in another sense it's how power operates and always has operated. In our society, power and wealth go together. In another society, power would operate a different way. Perhaps/potentially a better way, but still with many inequities. I wish we had a better social technology for managing power.
reservoirs are heavier than air
I don't think so.
Water vapor (Hâ‚‚O): molecular weight about 18. Nitrogen (Nâ‚‚): molecular weight about 28. Moist air is lighter than dry air (at the same temperature and pressure) and rises by buoyancy.
91: I've gotten phone (including DSL) and cable discounts just by asking. Maybe it involved threatening to cancel in the case of the cable company. This does not work with the gas company, but the high efficiency washing machine and dishwasher helped quite a bit.
"Look up. See that dishwasher? Give me a discount or I'll drop it on you."
That's an empty threat. The new dishwasher is so much quieter than the old one. I'd never hurt it.
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One of the dogs is ailing, a sprained or bruised hip.
The partner talked to one of her friends, who says tylenol is ok fine for dogs, and showed her a web post.
She says she might check with the vet.
My googling shows intense differences of opinion, most of which are vehemently opposed to giving dogs tylenol. As in rush the dog to a stomach pump.
"But the vet said it was ok" will work for her, but would never absolve me of responsibility whatsoever. Not when there is so much information out there.
So like y'all try to imagine it being your spouse who has accepted a medical treatment, prescribed by an accredited doctor, which you believe has a significant chance of quickly killing your kid. The child is in intense pain. He really believes in his doctor. Now most may say a compromise could be found (buffered baby aspirin is fine) but could you really trust your spouse with your child again?
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OT: Wow, have people seen this visualization of BLS statistics on job gains/losses from 2004-2009? Maybe there's some trickery I'm not aware of it, but it seems quite vivid.
(You have to drag the pointer along the timeline to see the changes.)
I would like to help Bob, but cannot.
I have discovered on further examination that BOGF left a very pleasant note as part of her friend request. I am considering exploration of custom visibility options.
This is why I avoided FB, y'all.
(You have to drag the pointer along the timeline to see the changes.)
You can also press the Play button to the left of the timeline.
No, Bob, no!
NOO Tylenol for dogs. Seriously.
You can give them part of an aspirin -- depending on their size. The safest dog painkiller is tramadol -- aka codeine -- but you have to get it from the vet. We have some leftover from our dearly departed pup that I would send you if you had need.
Witt, that's a great display. I've already sent it along to my friends.
JRoth, you are making me feel good about my resistance to FB.
Bob, we talked a while back how hard it is to understand anyone else's risk evaluations. I don't have any advice for you on your actual concern, but I'll say that I think you're up against a hard problem (how to respond to a partner's different risk evaluation).
I love FB now, for letting me keep in touch with my imaginary friends when I am too exhausted by the internet to blog or comment much. Speaking of which, JRoth--another FB message just sent to you!
You can also press the Play button to the left of the timeline.
Er, yes. Have I mentioned how dense I am when it comes to interpreting cryptic symbols? I know designers and engineers put a great deal of effort into making them intuitive, and yet I still fail all the time. The circle and the line that are supposed to show Power on/off for DVD players...which one is On again, and how can I remember it for next time?
Anyway, it's quite scary when you watch that jobs chart animate itself, rather than just randomly clicking on various months. Recession over? What?
Also: Boy howdy, am I glad I don't live in Detroit. Nothing but red circles, even when the rest of the country is adding jobs. So sad.
I watched the animation thinking "Construction, construction, constuctiKABAMM!" Also thinking, "what? Are there only five dynamic places in this country?" What happens in the rest of all that space?
Water vapor (Hâ‚‚O): molecular weight about 18. Nitrogen (Nâ‚‚): molecular weight about 28. Moist air is lighter than dry air (at the same temperature and pressure) and rises by buoyancy.
Wow, thanks. That makes sense but, obviously, I would have gotten that wrong.
I was lead astray by Cecil Adams.
What happens in the rest of all that space?
We're a simple people. We laugh, cry, and sing.
A similar animation of unemployment rates would also be interesting, so that your attention isn't always drawn to the handful of really big population centers.
111: Isn't it just a population density effect? Montana and Wyoming are never going to be anywhere near LA in terms of absolute numbers of jobs gained or lost; Wikipedia says the biggest city in Wyoming has population 55k, of whom many are presumably too young or too old to work. There would have to be incredibly large fluctuations---like, 3% of the town's jobs lost in a month---to register as even a tiny blip.
The OP, especially paragragh 2, is why I love Heebie so.
107 cont'd after remembering things: The vet will try to give you NSAIDs not codeine. Doggie NSAIDs made my (iron stomached and 75lb) dog puke blood and go into renal failure (all reversed as soon as we stopped them). This isn't uncommon, but doesn't happen to most dogs.
113 - Are you referencing Doonesbury? If so, that is one of my favorite sequences ever (when the Bush appointee shows up at the African consulate, right?). If you aren't, um, I'm sure your simple ways keep you and yours entertained. They sound charming.
121: Yes. But I thought it was older than that.
121, 123 also one of my favorite Doonesbury references.
Was 30 a (mangled) bloom county reference?
124.2 s/b "Did 30 contain a Bloom County reference?"
119:Thanks, oudemia
We are working on it. Part of the gig here is maintaining comity, ya know?
She:It was just an idea I read on a website, why are you so upset
Me:Cause it can be a killer
She:Well, what are you doing about the pain?
Me:Buffered baby aspirin might be ok (It's not great)
She:Did you go get any?
Me:No (taking a hit, deserved or not)
Pause while the room calmed
Me:The dogs have had traumas before, including stitches, and what did we do for pain then?
She:Nothing
Me:Can we just wait a day or two and see if she gets better?
There are other factors, including the fact that a neighbor of 25 years tore his fence down. The dogs go Marley on us with twice the yard. It's his fence on his property, which he doesn't really need, but says he is going to replace if we pay half the cost, but it is our dogs that are not being obedient and running out to the street.
Tueday and Wednesday neighbor and I took down a two-foot diameter tree and dug out the stump. My hands are still bleeding. I could put up a cheap fence myself on my side of the line, if I took out an even bigger tree. He wants something solid and pretty for house resale value.
Neighbor politics and guy-guy interactions. I'm 60, he's 30, and there was much axe swinging, disproportionately on his part. Which I appreciated fulsomely.
Life is soooo complicated. La de da de da
This is a bit out of my range, but we could sell one car because it is so close to the office.
From here:
http://www.vetinfo.com/dogmed.html
Based on reactions in our canine patients, this is the ranking I would give these medications: safest = acetaminophen (Tylenol tm), also safe = aspirin, less safe = ibuprofen (Advil tm, Motrin Rx). However, this is the ranking that I would give them based on the reports in the literature and factoring in the likelihood of a bad reaction causing death: safest = aspirin, also safe but less so = acetaminophen and less safe = ibuprofen.
The reason for these rankings include these things. Aspirin is reasonably likely to cause gastric ulcers, which can be life threatening if ignored but which respond to withdrawal of the medication. Acetaminophen doesn't seem to cause ulcers but there are uncommon reactions to it in which liver failure occurs and this may not respond to therapy, so death is a possibility. Ibuprofen is very likely to cause ulcers, with 100% of dogs developing ulcers with the use of ibuprofen in at least one study. On the other hand, lots of my clients come in and tell me "I gave my dog an ibuprofen last night" and I have only had to treat one or two cases of ulcers and I can't recall a dog dying from this medication, yet.
My personal preference for pain and fever in dogs is aspirin but we do warn our clients to discontinue the medication if the dog stops eating and to call us or come in for a recheck if that happens.
In cats the situation is different. Acetaminophen is very toxic to cats and this medication should simply never be used to treat a cat. Aspirin has a long half life in cats, at least 24 to 48 hours, so it will reach toxic levels pretty quickly if it is given more frequently than once every 48 hours and the dosage is 10mg/lb so a baby aspirin (81mg) is a much more appropriate dosage for a cat than an adult aspirin. I have not seen much information on ibuprofen and cats but it is a good idea to avoid all non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medications in cats, at least until one of them does prove to be safe in someone's clinical trials.
Mike Richards, DVM 3/10/2001
I could put up a cheap fence myself on my side of the line, if I took out an even bigger tree. He wants something solid and pretty for house resale value.
I don't know how much fencing you're talking about, or what things are like in Texas, but over here in these parts, it's standard neighborly behavior -- well, at least in New England -- that anyone who puts up a fence (on their own side of the line) is to put the pretty side facing the neighbor's property.
Good luck with it; I've seen neighbor wars over that kind of thing.
Meanwhile, talk to the vet about the buffered aspirin for the dog, and go get some! Just to have it in the cabinet so you can decide if you decide.
Bob: Now most may say a compromise could be found (buffered baby aspirin is fine) but could you really trust your spouse with your child again?
I second oudemia, Bob. Ditch the tylenol. If you must, use the little pink benadryls or small doses of baby aspirin. [deleted] I should email my Txted Ex, she seconds Oudemia, which I thought was correct, but needed to check. Too much aspirin will cause liver damage, all other OTC stuff unsafe, except Benadryl.
max
['The ongoing Tylenol feud is ugly, but I go with E - she's good at this.']
I have an health care advance directive that says if I ever take medical advice from an internet comment, I'm consenting in advance to a 48 hour hold for psychiatric evaluation.
129: Based on reactions in our canine patients, this is the ranking I would give these medications: safest = acetaminophen (Tylenol tm), also safe = aspirin, less safe = ibuprofen (Advil tm, Motrin Rx)
(I remember from the last go round I had over this a coupla years ago) The only real fight is over Tylenol. Some say it's safe. Others vehemently oppose this.
max
['I'd avoid it, myself, in favor of advil.']
"In dogs, clinical signs of acetaminophen toxicity are generally seen with doses in excess of 200 mg/kg BW"
For a 50 pound dog, this is 8 500mg tablets (extra strength Tylenol). Since even adult humans aren't supposed to take this much in a day, as long as you program in a large buffer, scale accordingly to body weight, and avoid making it a chronic dosage, you would probably be fine.
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NIN: "Cars" with Gary Numan, London 7.15.09 [HD]
*blink*
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max
['I have to go turn that up again.']
Too much aspirin will cause liver damage
Is aspirin here supposed to say "acetaminophen", or am I not following this discussion?
GOOD FENCES MAKE GOOD NEIGHBORS ...
136: Not to speak for Max, but yeah, that might have been a typo.
GOOD FENCES MAKE GOOD NEIGHBORS
Not if they put the ugly side of the fence facing you! (Jerks ...)
But then that's not a good fence, I suppose.
136: I think he means acetaminophen, the suicide drug of choice for anthrax mailing maniacs. I've got a kid with a specialty in veterinary internal medicine. I'll ask him tomorrow about dogs and pain.
I suspect the answer depends on how long the dosing has to go on. Aspirin seems the safest for a short term treatment -- little chance of major GI upset and little chance of idiosyncratic reactions.
If the idea is to keep the dog quiet and drowsy so it's not aggravating something strained, then Bendryl seems pretty good.
Take a look here:
http://www.dolittler.com/2009/10/20/Sedating.your.pet.after.surgery.Whats.your.take.html
132:I put more trust in the wisdom of crowds than the authority of credentialed experts. The crowds will include experts, of course.
I have been thru this before with my mother, but worse. The osteoporosis was literally and rapidly dissolving her ribcage, without which she would be on a respirator. An experimental drug was recommended, with grave reservations because of the dialysis, by her pneumologist.. Her dialysis doctor was familiar with the drug, but there hadn't been enough trials to know the interactions (calcium, phosphorus, potassium, heart...I forget much). He was against it, firmly, because it was something many dialysis patients would like to use. I learned enough to discuss it without giving offense, in doctor time:"Paper, paper, objection, mechanism, probabilities, acceptance" = 10 minutes
I had to decide. The online communities sharing info across continents at bitspeed saved my sanity. The determining study was Australian, I think.
I probably should have trolled about the IFC Monty Python marathon instead.
Health Care Experience Question: Who here has had anesthesia other than for dental surgery? I was trying to figure out if it would be safe to sign up for the in-network Cigna plus Tufts in MA plan that my BF's firm offers instead of the one with out-of-network coverage (more than 100 miles from home, you're covered either way). So, I said there are 2 areas where I worry: and one is anesthesiology. There is one anesthesiologist who takes those plans in all of Boston. Further digging reveals that Boston Medical Center and a whole bunch of hospitals get their services provide by a particular practice, i.e. anesthesiologists don't appear to be on staff. One of these practices accepted Blue Cross and Harvard Pilgrim and that was it. So, if you've gotten anesthesia for childbirth or surgery, do you just pay them $2,000 directly?
Also, I really wish that it were easier to get information about insurance plans accepted, because just because your doctor or one part of the hospital accepts it, doesn't mean the whole hospital does.
Mainers totally want a lot more regulation (like 70%) and a high percentage (60% maybe) want a public option, but they also just love Olympia Snowe and won't get rid of her. I thought that they were going to boot Collins w/ the 1st district's Congressman but they didn't.
I wonder how much money she gets. It can't be as much as Baucus. Are there more people in Montana?
togolosh, if you have United Healthcare, your plan is probably self-insured which would mean that it's not regulated by your State Insurance Commissioner. Check the Department of Labor's website for information on appeals.
136: Is aspirin here supposed to say "acetaminophen", or am I not following this discussion?
No. When I checked with E (former vet tech/moved up to management for four years, soon to be back again at the animal game) she said we needed to check up on aspirin dosages because it can cause liver damage. That is:
Me: Q: tylenol bad for dog. Benadryl ok. Aleve? Advil ok, yes? max ['Checking.']
E: Benadryl ok. All others, no.
Me: Aspirin ok? What otc painkillers? max ['Thanks!']
E: There really are no otc antiinflammatories. baby aspirin maybe but i don't know the dose. you could try looking online. too much will damage liver.
Me: Afraid of that. Memory was a little vague. max ['bless you']
E: What's up?
Me: Online friend has dog with bruised hip. Argument over tylenol. Knew tylenol was bad. No biggie, wanted to get it right. Bad google fu tyl. feud. max ['!']
160 char limit! Anyways, I remember the first article biohazard quoted back from like, 2005, when I went over this ground the last time.
Sucks to be a dog, I guess.
max
['Note: regardless of where you stand on the Tylenol for dogs question, Tylenol will kill cats D.E.A.D. And aspirin is no good either except in a single, small dose.']
160 char limit!
You should try just signing off with "m".
Here's the Hartz aspirin for dogs info sheet. Basically, a coated baby aspirin (81mg) for every 15 lbs, and they should be swallowed whole, not chewed.
http://www.drugs.com/vet/hartz-advanced-care-enteric-coated-aspirin-for-dogs.html
Are there more people in Montana?
No. Maine has about 1.3 million people; Montana has just under a million.
36: Your constituents are the residents of the area that you represent. They don't have to have voted for your, or have contributed money, or have voted at all.
Yeah, in theory. In practice, if someone who donates large sums of money is calling your office all the time politiely requesting (that is, demanding) special treatment because of the job losses that would otherwise happen, you're going to pay attention to them, and not do things many constituents who routinely return you to office would like but don't demand. Especially if there seem to be risks from the establishment. And what about the Rotary Clubs, the professional associations and the like? Do they get more than their votes should qualify them for? You can't poll everyone in your district over every single question and expect coherent answers. All that is aside from agreeing or disagreeing about what the best policy actually is.
And those are the conditions you're operating under if you have the best, least corrupt politicians in the best of all possible worlds. In our world, of course, we have a bunch of pig-ignorant, camera-hogging narcissists in office, because no one else is masochistic enough to take the job. Pig-ignorant, camera-hogging narcissists who spend their time plotting and scheming to get on TV, are usually not real good at effective policy.
This is NOT an argument for giving up, and not an argument for giving in to ostensible 'political realities' as defined on cable TV. It IS an argument for hitting your representives (and anybody else getting in the way) repeatedly over the head with a baseball bat until they do what you want or die... metaphorically speaking. And if they do die, they can be replaced with someone better.
As it stands, a big pigpile has formed at the goal line as everyone tries to push the ball over - which would be great if anyone knew where it was. It's unfortunately at the bottom of the pile, so your best bet here is to find the nearest conservative or Blue Dog and punch them. ('What was that for?' 'For not supporting the public option?' 'I support a public option... with a trigger!' {BAFF} 'What was THAT for?')
max
['It's called, whatchamacallit, education.']
142
... Who here has had anesthesia other than for dental surgery? ...
I had anesthesia in 2006. Although the provider was out of network they accepted the in-network level of $1080.
I also had anesthesia this year. The list of $1050 was discounted to $518.
The circle and the line that are supposed to show Power on/off for DVD players...which one is On again, and how can I remember it for next time?
I have never, EVER been able to remember this. A circle, or zero, is often used to indicate "nothing", rather than "something". And a horizontal line is also used to mean "nothing", rather than "something". Neither of those things ever means "something". Both mean "nothing". So which one means "on", and why?
This post has been linked over at orgtheory. The links in the comments to the Monkey's Cage series on lobbying is also worth a look, if you're into that kind of thing.
153: Yes. Took me years and years to figure out, but that's it.
JRoth, you are making me feel good about my resistance to FB.
So I can stop FB-stalking all the Megans?
Oh, and Moby, if you come back, your craigslist link didn't work.
156: But, Moby, if you don't come back, your craigslist link did work, and then we all had a biscuit.
151: My mnemonic is that the one with the circle is the one that starts with O.
158 -- It's actually pretty sad how long it took me to get that.
You can stop FB-stalking all the Megans. So far, I have held out.
I can't stop FB stalking all the Begins.
Menachem! Why won't you be my friend!
Yeah, Golda Meir is my friend and David Ben-Gurion have accepted my friend requests, but Begin keeps turning me down too.
Ariel Sharon NEVER pokes me back.
All the Megans, JRoth? Aren't there millions of them?
Howmanyofme.com says there are 226,169 Megans in the U.S., so I don't think you're going to get millions of Megans no matter how far you extend your search.
Huh, that's an interesting site. Turns out there are 1 or fewer people in the US with my name.
410 of me. I'm just another brick in the wall.
It says there is just one of me but google knows another one. He's a school principal in upstate NY.
It says there are 37 of me, in other words, one of me and 36 pretenders. Maybe I should sue them for brand dilution.
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Back from the Vet
ACL
$1100
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Oh, and Tramadol for pain with Fentanyl patch for the surgery
Oh, and add $250 for the exam today
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174: Aha! Tramadol! That worked very well for our pooch -- no gastro or other problems and seemed to get him "nice."
170: I just googled myself to see, and same here. That says there is one and only me; Google says that there is another me who is a nurse engaged to her hs sweetie.
4,060 of me. I expected a higher number. My given and family names are very common. I have received paychecks meant for other people as there was more than one of us working at the same location.
I share the same name with my dad and grandpa, but it says there's one or fewer. As I'm the only visible google result, that makes them the impostors, right?
Note that the site is just making rough estimates based on census data.
179: It's on the internet, so it can't lie, teo.
179: I'm guessing it's right in your case, though.
Yeah, tramadol looks very nice, and cheap like most opiates/synthetics, and of course, harder to get prescribed
Correction, the fentanyl patch is post surgery, of course...I think.
181: Yes, in my case I'm quite certain it is.
156: It's probably for the best it's gone. It was a Schendley Farms mansion that I only put it there to taunt Californians without our (relatively) low housing prices.
484 of me. I'm sure there's really more.
On the other hand it does say there are 3 Mohammed Changs in the US, so who am I to question?
More than 14,000 of me. Some 14 of them in my email directory at work. That's awfully weird.
175: The vet kid says "Tramadol" too. (They're still debating aspirin vs other NSAIDs, he says no one knows for sure.)
On topic, Firedoglake, for all its flaws, is still my primary for the politics of health insurance reform.
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Off topic, surgery and money aside, the recovery for canine acl surgery, especially for my extremely active critter, is a nightmare. I guess I am going to become a primary intense caregiver for six months again. Shit. This creates inevitable tensions and stresses between partners, beyond my individual stresses. There are no blogs out there covering CCL recovery in detail.
And ZOMG, for no good reason, I gave the album OK Computer a first full listen tonight, and think it is a masterpiece. Somehow I had been scared of it, imagining it a cross between Nirvana and My Bloody Valentine. Instead it is closer to a smarter, more progressive Death Cab for Cutie. Whatever, it's good.
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188: There are no blogs out there covering CCL recovery in detail.
Forwarded to E, to see if she has anything to suggest.
On topic, Firedoglake, for all its flaws, is still my primary for the politics of health insurance reform.
To hit whatever Ari said way up there: with the politics of health care reform, the best blogs are the uncensored ones written from inside each Senator's head. Sadly, there's no feed for that. FDL is doing an excellent, nay, outstanding job rallying the troops.
max
['Now, if we could just get the troops to not be so inclined to mimic base conservatives' obeidience to authority, we'd be getting somewhere.']
I gave the album OK Computer a first full listen tonight, and think it is a masterpiece.
The one Radiohead I don't have! I have no idea what it has to do with Death Cab for Cutie, though. They have a weirdstupid name. Are they good?
This may be of interest.
The "Change Congress in 20 minutes" presentation, if I'm remembering the right one, is a pretty succinct description of how exactly our democracy is broken.
I have no idea what it has to do with Death Cab for Cutie, though.
Well, I don't either. Music comparison and description is hard. They don't sound like Nirvana or MBV tho.
I'll let people who know Radiohead better than me do the talking if they want to. They have been discussed here, I think in the "overrated" category.
They don't sound like Nirvana or MBV tho.
No. Though I'm struggling to think who MBV is.
I don't know, with Radiohead I'm inclined to leave them alone and not feel the need for comparisons at all. I feel the same way about Piano Magic, and probably many others, but it's just a feeling that there's really no need to engage in debate for some of these bands (ensembles, even!) -- people are probably either going to love it or hate it.
OK computer is by far the best radiohead album, so go buy it, parsi. but don't buy death cab for cutie because they are lame and emo.
OK Computer is also my favorite Radiohead album. DCFC is good for a phase of pop and words, but as alameida suggests, not anything groundbreaking.
imagining it a cross between Nirvana and My Bloody Valentine
You know, I can't imagine a cross between Nirvana and My Bloody Valentine. I guess I just lack imagination. Or it's just Nirvana with, like, 30 goddamn guitars.
As far as Radiohead goes, In Rainbows is my favorite thing they've done since OK Computer. The intervening years of pretentious wankery have their moments, but are mostly, well, exactly that.
DCFC is kind of lame, although they have moments of fun pop-iness. ("Photobooth" comes to mind, from the Forbidden Love EP.) The Postal Service was the better Ben Gibbard project, albeit short-lived.
The one Radiohead I don't have!
And it's my fault. I'm sure I'll come across it soon, parsimon!
I still don't think Obama is as awful as bob argues, but if he turns out to be (something that seems slightly more likely after reading about the White House trying to weaken the public option), I'm going to be motherfucking pissed.
I like In Rainbows a lot. I don't know if it's better than OK Computer but it's the one I listen to more [at least recently]. I also like Yorke's solo album a lot, too.
"Nude", from In Rainbows is one of those songs that sweeps me away, especially, for some reason, when listened to on headphones.
Also, Radiohead, not assholes. Which is nice.
189: There's some Senator who has a twitter feed which she writes herself.
There are a bunch of people in Congress with twitter feeds now, but some - maybe most - are written by staffers mainly (like correspondence). McCaskill says that she writes hers herself and that she reads all @replies, but that for obvious reasons she can't reply to all @replies.
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Took the female dog to a park yesterday afternoon. The male dog is hyperactive, and the female responds so it was best to go without him. Not only is she a three-legged dog because of the torn ACL, but she can overcompensate and damage the other leg if too active. So we have been severely restricting her movement.
So we just left the car walked ten feet and sat on the grass. I put my hand on her back to keep her from rising, but she can be amazingly calm and quiet even under normal circumstances. Just calm and alert and attentive. I don't live in her world of scents I can't smell or sounds I can't hear, but I made an effort not to watch her, but watch what she was watching.
It was a perfect weather evening, and the little park was crowded. A German shepherd puppy, a mastiff, teenagers playing basketball, kids on the playground equipment, young couples. Some of them gave us funny looks, but I am funny looking. Every half hour we would move 10-20 feet, letting her sniff and pee. Spent about an hour and a half til the sun went down.
She goes into surgery tomorrow at 8:30. If she makes it out of surgery and home, she will be absolutely immobilized for two weeks, while I clean up her messes. After that it will be twenty minutes on her feet a day while confined to a cage for two months. She will need massage and passive exercise and whatever entertainment I can give her. She may permanently lose muscle. Then it will be 2 months to a year of gradually increasing activity, with a 50% chance of blowing up the other leg.
I don't think I will ever be taking the dogs to the woods and rocks and creeks or ten-mile walks again
We are cashing in the 401-ks.
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Aw, poor pup. That seems like an awfully slow recovery, though -- my human roommate was getting around on crutches almost immediately after ACL surgery.
Do not get radiohead at all. They seem utterly undistinguished, no better than coldplay. Everything I like that is both new and guitar rock-y seems Scandinavian or to involve Damon Albarn.
I don't think I will ever be taking the dogs to the woods and rocks and creeks or ten-mile walks again
Aw, I wouldn't be so sure. It might take a while, but they're pretty tough beasties.
Bob. Best wishes for you and your pup. I just lost my 14 year old dog a few weeks ago. Major sympathies for anyone trying to keep their dogs healthy and happy. May the recovery go better than anticipated.
Bob, I'm terribly sorry about your dog. She's lucky to have someone like you looking out for her.
With you taking care of her bob, she'll make it. Just won't be able to walk as far, sadly.
203: my human roommate was getting around on crutches almost immediately after ACL surgery.
Yeah, but the knee was immobilized was it not? Dog joints are different there - you can't freeze it in place the same way.
max
['Ouch.']