Re: But wait…there's more!

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Next time you get asked to do an encore, come back onstage and say "gosh, we didn't prepare anything for you guys... I don't know what you want to see but, oh, what the hell, here you go..." and then chuck a beer bottle at somebody's head.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:14 PM
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He also took pre-submitted written questions, which I've seen done before, but also which he did well. (My last-minute question was "Tacos or Burritos? And why") (Answer: "Tacos. Soft Tacos. Because they're delicious.")

Good times.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:21 PM
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Aren't soft tacos basically just unrolled burritos?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:22 PM
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3: That's between you and Mike Doughty.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:22 PM
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I'm just sayin'. Sounds like he's taking the easy way out. Splitting the difference.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:24 PM
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3 is so, so wrong.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:24 PM
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Next up: 300 angry comments about tacos!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:25 PM
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My position on Mike Doughty is that if all his songs sound like they took fifteen minutes to write, which they do, he should either release five albums a year, or get back together with those guys who made his songs sound less predictable with the tape loops and Luscious Jackson drum machines and whatnot.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:27 PM
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8: Okay, but tacos. How do you feel about tacos?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:29 PM
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I used to hate soft tacos, or rather I hated the idea of them. They offended me to the depths of my soul. Then I tried them. They're not bad, but I still prefer crunchy tacos.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:29 PM
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Bob Weston took questions from the audience at two (2) discrete points at the Shellac concert I went to. It was pretty amusing.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:31 PM
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Yeah, I actually don't mind soft tacos, but they're definitely different from hard tacos, to the extent that I'm not really sure they should be given the same name.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:31 PM
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Soft tacos are the only real tacos, and they're nothing at all like an unrolled burrito.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:32 PM
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13: So if you roll them up, what do you have?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:32 PM
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10 is so, so wrong.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:33 PM
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I am among the angry 300. What is wrong with you people? I thought Teo and eb were supposedly reliable informants about the Southwest? Hard-shell tacos and burritos -- are you secretly from Cleveland?

Also, Mike Doughty is the only rock star with whom I have a close personal connection, but to reveal more would totally kill whatever shreds of anonymity I have left.


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:35 PM
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You can't roll up a soft taco. It is too laden down with ingestibles.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:36 PM
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Soft tacos are the only real tacos

This.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:38 PM
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eb were supposedly reliable informants about the Southwest

That's never been true.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:39 PM
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In New Mexico tacos at regular Mexican restaurants are always hard. You can now get soft tacos at some Mexican-seafood type places, but when I was growing up the only place that offered them was Taco Bell, and the ones there really are just unrolled burritos. California Mexican food and New Mexican food are actually very different.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:40 PM
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16.2: You could e-mail me directly and tell me all about it. I'd be impressed and whoa'd, while staying mum. stanleysparks at the google email service. (The unfogged one seems unreliable.)


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:41 PM
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I can't see the name "Mike Doughty" without thinking of one song in a particular context, which means I've spent way too much time watching a certain TV show.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:41 PM
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In New Mexico tacos at regular Mexican restaurants are always hard. You can now get soft tacos at some Mexican-seafood type places

Wacky! I've had soft tacos in multiple places in Santa Fe, but maybe they were in the "Mexican-seafood" category. I guess they were mostly fish tacos.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:42 PM
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The most disgusting tacos I've ever had were soggy, not soft per se, and sealed at the top with melted, no longer liquid, cheese. But I pretty much hate melted cheese in nearly all its forms (exception being on pizza, former exception being grilled cheese sandwiches).


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:42 PM
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to reveal more would totally kill whatever shreds of anonymity I have left

Dude, you comment under what I presume is your actual name. Lowercasing the first letters doesn't really work as an anonymization strategy.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:42 PM
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In New Mexico tacos at regular Mexican restaurants are always hard

I find this astonishing. Are you talking about New Mexico, or Faux Mexico?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:42 PM
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When did fish tacos become a thing? I stopped eating tacos completely for a long time - replaced by burritos - and then, when I couldn't keep eating just burritos anymore, noticed that fish tacos seemed to be everywhere. Did I just miss them before? Also, when did Chipotle become popular?

(Also, have you heard of Michelle Shocked? I haven't.)


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:44 PM
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25: You think he's really this guy?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:44 PM
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I've had soft tacos in multiple places in Santa Fe, but maybe they were in the "Mexican-seafood" category. I guess they were mostly fish tacos.

If they were fish tacos, then yeah, those were definitely not traditional New Mexican restaurants. (Was one of them this place?) Traditional New Mexican cuisine does not include fish.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:45 PM
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New Mexico is a thousand miles from the ocean, people. People in New Mexico don't each much fish.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:46 PM
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(Not that soft tacos are necessarily fish tacos, but they seem to go together a lot.)


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:46 PM
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There's a "new" Mexico now? Is that near Canada, all tucked away down there?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:47 PM
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I pretty much hate melted cheese in nearly all its forms (exception being on pizza, former exception being grilled cheese sandwiches).

Hey, me too. Weird.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:47 PM
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But soft tacos are not necessarily fish tacos. IME, softness of taco and fish content have no correlation.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:47 PM
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Pwned, and then kind of unpwned.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:48 PM
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27: Yeah, it seems like Mexican seafood, with fish tacos suddenly became a big thing a few years ago. That's when soft tacos suddenly became widespread, well, everywhere, including New Mexico.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:48 PM
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But soft tacos are not necessarily fish tacos. IME, softness of taco and fish content have no correlation.

Yeah, I tend to think of them together because neither is part of New Mexican cuisine and they both appeared together a few years back, but point taken.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:49 PM
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But I totally stand by the hard tacos. If you go to a Mexican restaurant in New Mexico and ask for a taco, you will get a hard taco.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:50 PM
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Is it really possible that hard-shell tacos are authentic New Mexican food??

Ok, at least "I love Mexican food, like burritos" remains completely toolish.

And Teo, you've got another thing coming.


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:50 PM
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Hard-shell tacos and burritos are authentic New Mexican food. I guarantee.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:51 PM
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And Teo, you've got another thing coming.

Huh. Clever.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:51 PM
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And I distinctly remember soft tacos being presented as something new and different when I was kid. Of course, that was Taco Bell advertising, not authentic restaurants, whatever those are, but then I don't care about authenticity as much as whether I like the food I'm eating (a standard Taco Bell rarely meets, except for a while when I was a kid). The covered-in-cheese taco I had was presented as authentic, for what it's worth.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:51 PM
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39: I've been very careful not to claim to have eaten any Mexican food.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:52 PM
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Was one of them this place?

I don't think so, but trying to piece together the full set of restaurants I ate at during one week three and a half years ago by staring at Google Maps isn't working out so well. I can't find anything that looks like a good candidate for where I had fish tacos.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:52 PM
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I mean, the whole concept of "authenticity" is problematic in general and especially problematic when applied to New Mexican food, given the history of New Mexico. But to the extent that there is a standard set of dishes that qualify as "real New Mexican food" hard tacos are definitely part of it. Not the mainstay by any means, and they probably don't go back more than a few decades, but definitely a part. Every place has them.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:52 PM
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Along with hitchhiking, cowboy hats, and women dying their hair black, a distinctive feature of New Mexico life in my five-day-long experience was the soft sopaipillas, far superior to the crunchy chip-like items with which I have been familiar.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:54 PM
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Soft tacos are what you get from all Mexican taco stands in California and, IME, in Mexico Mexico, and that's been true for at least 20 years.

Fish tacos come from the Baja coast, at least that's where I had them for the first time.


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:54 PM
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Interesting. When I think "hard taco" I think "food my mom would sometimes prepare when I was a kid, which was tasty but clearly not 'authentic'" whereas when I think "soft taco" I think "delicious thing I have eaten in divey places in SoCal frequented by Spanish-speakers, hence possibly 'authentic'". But I'm aware that "authenticity" is a tricky thing.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:55 PM
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The taqueria four blocks from my house serves the most excellent carne asada tacos. They do not include cheese, the tortillas are soft, and they're a buck twenty-five apiece. And they're made by actual Mexicans, not the American nouveau variety.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:56 PM
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A. How is it possible to not like melted cheese? Warm cheese, gross. (Well, unless it's a soft cheese a la Brie). But melted? Food of the gods!

B. Soft tacos seem most prevalent at more "authentic" Mexican restaurants that I've been to. In fact, I don't think I've ever had a hard taco anywhere but Taco Bell. ("Mexican" food has been sampled in CA, OR, NM, AZ, CO, UT, etc, etc but regrettably not Mexico itself.) Also, carnitas soft tacos - yum.

C. I hate encores. All that clapping!


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:58 PM
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Seafood is a huge part of Mexican cooking generally. It's not surprising, if you look at a map.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:59 PM
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Wikipedia suggests that fish tacos pre-date the Spanish and that the hard shell taco first appeared in a cookbook published in New Mexico in 1949. Hopefully, authenticity allows for change enough for hard shell tacos in New Mexico, because it kind of sucks to say things can't change without becoming false.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:59 PM
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Soft tacos are what you get from all Mexican taco stands in California and, IME, in Mexico Mexico, and that's been true for at least 20 years.

I have no doubt. New Mexico hasn't been part of Mexico for a long time, and New Mexican food doesn't bear much resemblance to what you would get in Mexico itself or in restaurants or foodcarts in the US run by immigrants from Mexico.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 10:59 PM
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Seafood is a huge part of Mexican cooking generally. It's not surprising, if you look at a map.

Similarly, and for the same reason, it's not a part of New Mexican cooking at all.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:01 PM
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Authentic Chinese fortune cookies have a soft shell. And the paper is made of rice paste so you have to be very careful or you'll eat your fortune without ever learning it!


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:02 PM
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52: Interesting. Assuming that's correct, it means hard tacos are not only authentic in New Mexico, but that they probably originated there. I hadn't known that, but it makes sense.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:02 PM
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I think I'm too cranky from being sleep-deprived.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:03 PM
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Along with hitchhiking, cowboy hats, and women dying their hair black, a distinctive feature of New Mexico life in my five-day-long experience was the soft sopaipillas, far superior to the crunchy chip-like items with which I have been familiar.

Yeah, sopaipillas are great. I wouldn't say they're anything like chips aside from being fried, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:03 PM
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"Fabiola Cabeza de Vaca Gilbert" is an excellent name.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:04 PM
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New Mexican food is pretty amazing, at least based on my few days in Alb., and also seemingly unavailable elsewhere. You'd think that there would be a market for a good New Mexican restaurant in NY, LA, or SF, but I've never heard of one.


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:04 PM
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Authentic Chinese fortune cookies

Probably a thread unto itself, but I got a fortune cookie the other day that read, "You laugh now, but wait until you get home."


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:05 PM
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I think there is one in LA, halford. I just need to remember the name. I'll get back to you in a few years, probably after it is closed.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:06 PM
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I had some really highly inauthentic tacos at this place.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:08 PM
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61: That's awesome. The New York Times had an article a while back, that we may have discussed somewhere in the archives, claiming that the fortune cookie started in Japan, which may be true as a first origins claim, but the article made it clear that it really became a big thing starting in the U.S.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:08 PM
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You'd think that there would be a market for a good New Mexican restaurant in NY, LA, or SF, but I've never heard of one.

I think part of this is that there are so few people who are familiar with it (NM being a small, isolated state), and another part is probably that it's so heavily based on green chile, which would be hard to get in sufficient quantities elsewhere.

California, Texas, and Mexico, on the other hand, have huge populations, and their forms of Mexican food don't tend to use too many uniquely local ingredients (and if they do, immigrant populations elsewhere are often large enough to support specialty stores to import them), so you see versions of them all over the place.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:09 PM
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I wonder if the Oriental Mexican Fish Market and Video Store I saw in the Long Beach are about 15-20 years ago still exists.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:09 PM
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Ah, Wikipedia.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:10 PM
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a


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:10 PM
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I think part of this is that there are so few people who are familiar with it (NM being a small, isolated state), and another part is probably that it's so heavily based on green chile, which would be hard to get in sufficient quantities elsewhere.

According to Russ Parsons, this is thankfully becoming less true: "it's becoming so readily available in Southern California. Green chile roasts are now regular fall events here, held at farmers markets and supermarkets alike. And I can even pick up quite good frozen green chile at my local grocery store. After decades of doing without, suddenly I have plenty." Bring on the New Mexican restaurants.

(And halford, I had misremembered this article as a review of a New Mexican restaurant, so never mind.)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:14 PM
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That's a good article.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:17 PM
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Bring on the New Mexican restaurants.

Unfortunately you would still need New Mexican cooks, which are probably harder to find in California than the chiles.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:18 PM
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64: Sure you're not thinking of The Fortune Cookie Chronicles? (It's by Jennifer 8. Lee, who writes for the Times, but I don't remember her ever writing an article about the origin of the fortune cookie.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:19 PM
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According to Russ Parsons, this is thankfully becoming less true

Yeah, when I was in Austin at the end of August, Central Market was having a Green Chile Fest. More green chiles (and more green chile products) than anyone could ever need.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:21 PM
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71: I suppose I shall have to resign myself to making things at home. The article and accompanying recipes make me hungry.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:22 PM
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74: You could start your own New Mexican restaurant.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:23 PM
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72: This article. I don't know The Fortune Cookie Chronicles, but Lee wrote the article, so maybe she's mentioned it elsewhere.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:23 PM
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It's by Jennifer 8. Lee

I had this overwhelming urge to ask "Why is six afraid of Jennifer?", but Google tells me some familiar people have discussed the issue before.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:24 PM
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75: For so many reasons (chiefly that I'm not that good of a cook), that would be comedy and failure. Perhaps I could market it as a reality show.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:25 PM
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I got some hatch chiles recently. Yum yum yummy.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:27 PM
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This is very simply and tasty, Paren! Plus you can use the Cool Kid beans!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:28 PM
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76: You might like The Fortune Cookie Chronicles. It starts off with Lee trying to figure out the origin of the fortune cookie chronicles, but she expands it into a pop history of Chinese food all around the world. Light reading, but worthwhile.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:28 PM
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Unfortunately you would still need New Mexican cooks

Nah. If Pueblans can cook classic French food, I'm sure they can hack New Mexican cuisine no problem.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:29 PM
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80: I've made those! And, speaking of the Cool Kid beans, just today I bought some more Good Mother Stallards, which, when I had them some time last year were my absolute favorite bean ever from Rancho Gordo. I used them all up in a soup, and I was so sad that I hadn't bought more before they went out of stock. (I have an addiction. I think at this point I've tried 12 varieties. I made a five bean salad with all the odds and ends this summer that was amazing, if I do say so myself.)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:32 PM
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24 Don't spend time in the alps, all the local specialties involve melted cheese. Fondue: melted cheese and bread, raclette: melted/broiled cheese and potatoes, croute au fromage: melted cheese and bread only in a dish, tartiflette: ditto but replace the bread with potatoes and add lardons. All very yummy when done right with good cheeses.

On tacos, I confess to a guilty lust for hard shells; guilty because I always think of them as unauthentic.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:34 PM
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81: Sounds interesting, light or not. I've always liked how there seems to be a Chinese restaurant everywhere (not necessarily a good one, but one). Now that I live somewhere where with fairly easily accessible Chinese supermarkets, I might actually try to learn how to cook things a few things according to family recipes. And then I will start talking about sharpening knives all the time. (Who am I kidding? It's frozen food all the time for me.)


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:34 PM
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21 -- done.

On the general theme of 66, I once stopped at what seemed to be a Cambodian/Taco/Doughnut stand in Long Beach, where you could get both Lok Lak and carnitas.


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:36 PM
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By far the best mexican I've had in NYC is at the Saturday flea market around the corner. Really amazing huaraches, pupusas, and quesadillas. Rather than using any sort of tortilla I'm used to they just scoop a hunk of cornmeal dough, mash it down, grill it, and dump ingredients on it. So good.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:39 PM
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If Pueblans can cook classic French food, I'm sure they can hack New Mexican cuisine no problem.

My experience of the parts of New Mexico where the Hispanic population is almost entirely from Mexico but the restaurants they run still offer New Mexican cuisine implies strongly that this is not true. On the other hand, the Mexican immigrants in NM are mostly from Chihuahua. Maybe Pueblans are better cooks.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:39 PM
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Pupusas are Salvadoran rather than Mexican, aren't they?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:39 PM
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89 -- I thought so, and huaraches are from Mexico City. Fusion cooking!


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:43 PM
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Maybe, I had vague memories of reading or hearing that the guys who started the thing were from southern Mexico somewhere. I could be wrong or they could just be serving up their neighbours' specialty.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:45 PM
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There could well be parts of southern Mexico where they make pupusas, but I think they're generally identified with El Salvador. Which isn't all that far from southern Mexico, of course, although not adjacent to it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:46 PM
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So now I'm curious, where in Mexico do they make quesadillas on thick fresh open faced corn tortillas?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:50 PM
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No idea. I'm not very familiar with the various parts of Mexico cuisine-wise.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:51 PM
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I think those might come from Mexico City, too, although most of my knowledge of the regional nature of Mexican food comes from the signs on various taco trucks and stands in LA. Anyhow, the place near my house that has exclusively Mexico City style food offers quesadilas on fresh tortillas that sound like they might be what you're talking about.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:57 PM
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most of my knowledge of the regional nature of Mexican food comes from the signs on various taco trucks and stands in LA

Probably not a bad source of knowledge, actually, given the size and heterogeneity of the Mexican population of LA.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-28-09 11:59 PM
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I should really go to bed. I have a midterm tomorrow.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:01 AM
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Good night, everyone.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:02 AM
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65: California, Texas, and Mexico, on the other hand, have huge populations, and their forms of Mexican food don't tend to use too many uniquely local ingredients (and if they do, immigrant populations elsewhere are often large enough to support specialty stores to import them), so you see versions of them all over the place.

I'd tend to think it has more to do with the fact that outside of the Southwest, people do not get 'Mexican' (to cover all variants), so you wind up with a restaurant-based cuisine, much like the 'restaurant Indian' quisine that developed over time. (No one ever mentions Arizona or Nevada in this context either, since they have (or did have) even smaller populations than NM.)

Anyways, I'm going to back teo on the 'authenticity' of hard shell corn tortillas. Soft flour tacos are a California/Baja thing, originally. The origin of all tacos though, is in soft corn tortillas (which I actually like best), since that's what northern Mexico tends to use, and that in turns stretches back to the Aztecs and their corn fetish.

I do note that ground masa wasn't commercially available until this century, when the Mexican government convinced/required the American food processors to start offering it in Mexico. Prior to that, everything was hand-ground, and tortillas made from hand-ground corn are going to require immense effort to make, so it shouldn't be surprising that hard tacos didn't appear until later. Not that they didn't make them, just that there wasn't going to be a lot of energy left over to experiment. (Or, at 8:46 am, to put it another way, tortillas and the like were middle-class a long-time ago. They have since become poor people food. Welcome to rising standards of living.)

Anyways, I disagree with teo that a soft shell taco is a unrolled burrito. They have lots of things in common, but until you actually pack the taco with burrito filling (or the other way around), it's still a taco. Or, 'tortillas are really flexible in usage so don't get overly hung up on the mutability of categories!'

max
['Damn, now I'm fucking hungry.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:35 AM
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That video is not what I expected from a link reading "quite good".


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:37 AM
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I always get the burrito bowl when I got to Chipotle. I'm not a big fan of authenticity or flour tortillas.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:41 AM
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||
Sexist Beatdown: The Happy Hooker, Or Why Doesn't Steven Levitt Suck Dick For a Living?
|>

max
['Awesome.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:42 AM
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Unless sour cream and shredded cheddar are authentic Mexican ingredients, in which case, go Mexico.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:42 AM
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Since it apparently wasn't clear, I was kidding about soft tacos being unrolled burritos. They're definitely not.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:10 AM
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They're putting in a Chipotle in New Brunswick, across the street from the Qdoba. People at my school are very excited about this. I tend to avoid all those places.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:13 AM
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I tend to avoid states with 'New' in the name.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:17 AM
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That video is not what I expected from a link reading "quite good".

The whole thing was a put-on, staged for the purposes of inspiring an intimate discussion of tacos.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:46 AM
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I'm feeling kind of flu-ish. And 1/3 of my son's class was out sick yesterday. He's had the H1N1 shot, but I only got the regular flu shot.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:00 AM
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I endorse teo's expositions on New Mexican cuisine in this thread, and I'm surprised that people seem to have doubted him on the matter. And I really, really wish I were in Albuquerque right now, because I'm hungry.

My favorite Mexican food in New York is the tacos in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. You can stuff yourself on amazing (soft or hard) tacos for <$10, and the places are all BYOB.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:15 AM
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Chipotle is probably an improvement over Qdoba, as national-chain food goes. But that's not saying much.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:15 AM
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I like Mexican food a lot. According to Jammies, ours is not as good as the stuff in Las Cruces, where he went to school, but it is delicious nontheless. I like mine with lots of green sauce. Green sauce is the best.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:17 AM
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I like mole sauce, but not as much as I did before I noticed that you were supposed to pronounce it in Spanish.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:19 AM
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I like food a lot. All kinds of food. I also like Mike Doughty a lot. But for listening to, not for eating.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:25 AM
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Speaking of authenticity, in London they have a Mexican restaurant called "Wahaca".


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:27 AM
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You could probably do both, if you wanted to listen to him scream.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:27 AM
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115 to 113.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:27 AM
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I like mole sauce, but not as much as I did before I noticed that you were supposed to pronounce it in Spanish.

In Spanish, mole sauce is pronounced salsa 6.022 x 10²³.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:29 AM
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If Mike Doughty screamed, would we be so cavalier about cutting him down? We might, if he screamed all the time for no good reason.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:29 AM
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I can keep myself amused for a whole day just thinking about it.

Wahaca!


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:30 AM
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Wahaca mole?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:32 AM
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119: Keep wahacking that chicken.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:32 AM
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What did the ninja order at burger king? [Assumes ninja pose] Whoppaaa!
What did he have to drink? [Assumes ninja pose] Wataaa!
Where did he go on vacation? [Assumes ninja pose] Wahacaaa!


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:38 AM
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Speaking of authenticity, in London they have a Mexican restaurant called "Wahaca".

It's apparently the only good Mexican restaurant in London. And so starved are we of good Mexican food that it has an hour-long queue outside it for tables. No, you can't book one.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:45 AM
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There was a restaurant in SF for a while called "Wa-ha-ka". There's nothing insulting about that at all. You're every bit as likely to see a French restaurant called "Praw-Vonts".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:49 AM
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Wikipedia shoots down the whack-y thing I just wondered about.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:49 AM
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The other Mexican restuarants probably confused mole sauce with vole sauce.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:50 AM
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Much of the lingering fondness I tend for my ex-wife comes from the giant bag of frozen Hatch chiles that she left in the freezer. I think I can extract one more batch of sauce from it before the flame goes out.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:09 AM
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127: You must have had a good lawyer to get custody of the appliances.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:10 AM
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I'm OK with acknowledging an authentic place for hard tacos in postwar New Mexican cuisine, but promise me all you will never actually order them. When traveling in New Mexico, there is no need to order anything other than a burrito slathered in green chile sauce. You can get it "Christmas" style (red and green together) if you need to mix it up visually. Then have a sopapilla with honey for afters.

For breakfast, get eggs with green chile sauce. There are variations on this because you can cook eggs in different ways. One way is called scrambled and another way is called sunny side up. But don't skip the green chile sauce.

As someone who grew up in New Mexico, Teo will have other suggestions. He knows too many things. His knowledge will make you suffer. Stick with me, kid.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:12 AM
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Until this thread, I was unaware of green chile sauce and had always thought of green sauce as being tomatillo-based, which sauce I find overly goopy in texture.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:14 AM
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I think there is a green sauce-like creation based on the avocado, but I can't think of the name.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:17 AM
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What's more authentic? A restaurant spelled "Wahaca" that gets pronounced somewhat correctly, or a restaurant spelled "Oaxaca" that gets pronounced "o-AX-a-ca"?

Correct answer? Neither! Both would be ludicrously inappropriate for the name of an actual restaurant in Oaxaca itself. Everyone should be ashamed.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:18 AM
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132: agreed. But the restaurant isn't in Oaxaca, it's in London. An authentic name would be "Langford's Pie House" or some such.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:21 AM
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I'm going to start a New Mexican restaurant called "Lagos".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:21 AM
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re: 123

Sounds like Edamame in Oxford [Japanese place]. Can't book, and queues can get silly.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:22 AM
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I'm opening a USian restaurant in Mexico. It's called Guáchinton.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:25 AM
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136 is awesome to start and will be even better if the name of the cuisine can be pronounced "oozean"


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:27 AM
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134: I have an exciting idea to help you attain investment capital for your project.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:28 AM
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I endorse teo's expositions on New Mexican cuisine in this thread, and I'm surprised that people seem to have doubted him on the matter.

Speaking for myself, I think it's less that people doubted him in regards to New Mexican cuisine, but that I read him to be making a very different claim about Mexican food and hard tacos in general. (Reading back it's more obvious that he was specifically writing about New Mexican food.)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:31 AM
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¿Está esta su primera vez en Guáchinton? Usted debe saber que servimos a nuestro alimento el estilo auténtico, que los medios él son llenos de productos químicos deliciosos.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:33 AM
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The proposition that hard tacos are truthfully New Mexican cuisine is at odds with the proposition that truth is beauty and beauty, truth. This has led to confusion.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:33 AM
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Saying "Aren't soft tacos basically just unrolled burritos?" is obviously specifically writing about New Mexican food?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:34 AM
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Reading this thread I developed the theory that the version of Mexican food that first became widely known in the United States was a bastardized version of New Mexican cuisine -- because it featured hard tacos and had no seafood.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:40 AM
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Speaking of authenticity, in London they have a Mexican restaurant called "Wahaca".

It's apparently the only good Mexican restaurant in London.

London's short on good Mexican restaurants (and bad ones, for that matter), but there is a weird and wonderful Polish and Mexican place in Mayfair. It's not exactly fusion, it's just that half the menu is Polish and half is Mexican.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:43 AM
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144: what's it called? (Hoping for "Gonzalowicz's".)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:47 AM
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Łópeź


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:48 AM
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The question in 60 has long been one of my pet peeves. Shouldn't you be able to find any kind of food you want in New York if you look hard enough? America doesn't have that many interesting cuisines (New Mexican, Cajun, soul food, modern Californian, anything else?) how can one of them be entirely missing?


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:49 AM
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145: That's the icing on the cake. It's called "L'Autre".


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:50 AM
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Worth a visit, would you say?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:53 AM
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I think most US "mexican" food is an anglicized version of Sonoran food -- no seafood, no mole, flour tortillas.

The polish/mexican restaurant could have its origin in the connection between polka and norteno music.

By the way, is it racist to think that norteno music really, really sucks? This has been troubling me a lot lately.


Posted by: roberrt halford | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:53 AM
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147: There was a restaurant in NYC in the 80s -- and I will never remember the name, but I think it was on the UWS -- that billed itself as southwestern Native American. It was sort of like Mexican food, and sort of not.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:56 AM
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Saying "Aren't soft tacos basically just unrolled burritos?" is obviously specifically writing about New Mexican food?

No, that was a joke. It was his later characterizations about hard tacos in Mexican restaurants in New Mexico. (I believe it was all part of teofilo's cunning plan to make sure this thread did indeed get up to 300 comments on tacos.)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:58 AM
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Worth a visit, would you say?

Oh, definitely. The golonka is lovely. That said, I've been fairly pissed both times I've been, so I probably wasn't in the best position to judge the quality of the food.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:06 AM
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The original post was entirely correct about encores. There wasn't much else to say.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:07 AM
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In New Mexico, a 'hard taco' is called a 'burrito'. What most Americans would call a 'burrito' is called a 'hoagie' in New Mexico. And 'UFO' is New Mexicanese for 'weather balloon'.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:08 AM
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The New Mexicanese have over a thousand words for esnow.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:11 AM
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154: Really? Musicians don't like to receive applause? They just want to get home sooner?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:12 AM
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Tacos al pastor are yummy, and there are a couple of real places (even in Boston) which sell them. Always soft. ALso tacos are convenient when you just need a little bit of food but don't want a lot,, because they'll sell you just one.

There was a place in Davis (small chain) which had a non-traditional salmon burrito with a creamy sauce--different from a fish taco--which was yummy.

I don't miss much in Davis, but I do miss the place that sold salads that were freshly tossed and to which you could add grilled chicken or steak. The steak was always freshly grilled.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:14 AM
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Parenthetical knows me better than I know myself.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:17 AM
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I've always assumed that standard US "Mexican" food is a bastardized version of Tex-Mex, which is a different cuisine that shares some but not all features with New Mexican cuisine.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:18 AM
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I think most US "mexican" food is an anglicized version of Sonoran food -- no seafood, no mole, flour tortillas.

They don't eat seafood in Sonora? It's right on the coast.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:20 AM
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(New Mexican, Cajun, soul food, modern Californian, anything else?)

Barbecue. Wherever you want to class country hams. (Did you know Smithfield hams no longer need to be fed a diet consisting only of peanuts?) Can I get a good representative of every kind of chili in NYC? What about the cuisines that I don't know about because they're still quite regional?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:20 AM
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By the way, is it racist to think that norteno music really, really sucks? This has been troubling me a lot lately.

Absolutely not. Norteño music is terrible.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:21 AM
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There was a restaurant in NYC in the 80s -- and I will never remember the name, but I think it was on the UWS -- that billed itself as southwestern Native American. It was sort of like Mexican food, and sort of not.

Sounds pretty authentic, then.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:21 AM
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I just looked it up on a Davis wiki. The salad place is Pluto's.

The taco place with teh fish burritos was Dos Coyotes. For regular burritos the other place is better.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:21 AM
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162, 147: Calvin Trillin has written extensively on this subject matter.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:21 AM
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Calvin Trillin has written extensively on your mom.

In the style of "In the Penal Colony".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:22 AM
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I think part of the confusion in what I was saying last night is that in New Mexico, New Mexican restaurants are called "Mexican restaurants." Restaurants serving cuisine derived from any of the many regional traditions in Mexico itself are rare in New Mexico, but when they exist they are also called "Mexican restaurants."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:23 AM
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162: I realized a few minutes later I'd forgotten BBQ. As for country hams I'm saying "cuisine" not dish. There's lots of regional dishes (deep dish pizza, lobster, etc.).


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:24 AM
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Yabbut country hams must fit in somewhere, right? Is country hamdom part of soul food?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:24 AM
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HAMDOM!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:25 AM
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Also, k-sky is of course right that while hard tacos do seem to be of New Mexican origin (a fact which surprised me, as I had always thought they were Tex-Mex or something), and they are a standard option in New Mexican restaurants, there's no reason to order them and I never do. (The only exception would be a handful of restaurants that are particularly famed for their tacos.) I disagree with him, however, that a burrito with green is the only thing to get. Personally I like stuffed sopaipillas and tamales, but there are many other options as well.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:26 AM
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Tamales are basically burritos with extremely rough corn tortillas.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:27 AM
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Aren't tacos basically savory choco tacos?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:36 AM
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Isn't cabbage just cole slaw without mayonnaise?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:37 AM
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I would like to eat proper Mexican food.

Anyway, encores. I recently listened to a whole programe on Radio 4 about encores (presented by a bloke from Elbow) - at first I was a bit surprised that they were going to manage to drag this out for half an hour, but it was quite interesting. You can't listen again, but here's the blurb.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:37 AM
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174 and 175 get it exactly right.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:38 AM
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176: The show was originally supposed to be 15 minutes. The listeners kept asking for more.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:39 AM
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The taco place with teh fish burritos was Dos Coyotes.

I was super bummed that Dos Coyotes gave money to support Prop 8. I liked their food and now I can't go there.

(Although, I read in the news that they were one of a handful of places around town that were being boycotted and then looked up their donation, which I found at the time. But when I went back to check, because I shouldn't be slandering businesses unless I am positive, I couldn't find it again.)


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:45 AM
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Of all the threads to be late to.

There are two smells from home that I really, really miss: creosote bushes after a hard rain, and roasting green chile. The latter fills the valley all through September, and is glorious. But chile country does seem to have expanded, and we've moved into its new fringes; one evening last month I caught a whiff of roasting chile in my neighborhood and just about fell off my bike. That week we started getting good peppers in the farmshare. Hallelujah brothers!

Paren, teo, Bave---have you ever made it to the Hatch chile festival? So delicious.

I wholeheartedly endorse Jammies' position as stated in 111.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:51 AM
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Never been to the chile festival. I've only passed through Hatch on the way to other places.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:55 AM
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181 is funny.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:00 AM
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As a rule, passing through Hatch on the way to other places is good policy. The festival is great, though.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:01 AM
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That is, it's good policy when Hatch lies on a line between the origin and the other places.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:01 AM
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The only thing I remember about Hatch from passing through it on the way to Tucson (it's where you get off I-25 to take the shortcut to Deming) is that the McDonald's has the names of various varieties of chile painted on the walls.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:02 AM
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181 is even funnier if it wasn't deliberate.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:03 AM
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It wasn't.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:04 AM
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150 I'm imagining sauerkraut and kasha based burritos, sort of like the first falafel place in Warsaw put sauerkraut and horseradish in their falafel pitas. The place went by the name of 'Texas Falafel' and was located in the grungy maze of passages spreading out from under the main train station - get your pocket picked, fend off the prostitutes, and get your authentic exotic food. It actually wasn't bad, unlike the Vietnamese run 'Chinese' stands filled with mystery meat in sugary sweet ketchup.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:25 AM
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104: Since it apparently wasn't clear, I was kidding about soft tacos being unrolled burritos. They're definitely not.

Oh. Sorry. Probably for the best since according to forklore:

Mexican popular tradition tells the story of a man named Juan Mendez who used to sell tacos in a street stand, using a donkey as a transport for himself and the food, during the Mexican Revolution period (1910-1921) in the Bella Vista neighborhood in Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua. To keep the food warm, Juan had the idea of wrapping the food placed in a large home made flour tortilla inside individual napkins. He had a lot of success, and consumers came from other places around the Mexican border looking for the "food of the Burrito," the word they eventually adopted as the name for these large tacos.
On the other hand, they have the timeline of the burrito (!!):
16th century
Cuisine preceding the development of the modern taco, burrito, and enchilada was created by the Pre-Columbian Mesoamerican Aztec peoples of Mexico, who used tortillas to wrap foods, with fillings of chile sauce, tomatoes, mushrooms, squash, and avocados. Spanish missionaries like Bernardino de Sahagún wrote about Aztec cuisine, describing the variety of tortillas and their preparation, noting that the Aztecs not only used corn in their tortillas, but also squash and amaranth, and that some varieties used turkey, eggs, or honey as a flavoring.
1840
Burrito created in 1840s American Southwest/Northwestern Mexico. Spiced meat wrapped in flour tortillas made popular by gold miners who worked with burros. Janey M. Rifkin in Hispanic Times Magazine claims this was the original source of meat. If true, it would be out of desperation; burro meat is not considered palatable[citation needed].
I guess there's a bit of a dispute going on amoungst scholars of the burrito.

max
['Insert smiley.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:40 AM
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¡Taco polaco!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:41 AM
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Green chile is a distinct taste which will recall NM to me too, if I ever again eat the bizarre jerky that I had there. (is there a word for jerky so dry it turns into dust in the mouth before then being reconstituted with saliva?)


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:46 AM
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147, how could you forget hotdish and jello salad?!?


Posted by: Frostbite | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:56 AM
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Come to think of it, a 'burrito' made with golonka, sauerkraut, kasha, and grated horseradish might be pretty good.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:00 PM
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Clearly, I should go to New Mexico to get some hard shell tacos. Because nothing about this thread has made me think "real" tacos are any better than I thought before.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:16 PM
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is there a word for jerky so dry it turns into dust in the mouth before then being reconstituted with saliva?

"Jerky."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:21 PM
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They have to be better, eb. They're more authentic.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:22 PM
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I had about an hour layover in Albuquerque a couple of years ago on the train. That's the only time I've ever been to New Mexico.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:24 PM
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I don't like hard-shell tacos because they crack.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:32 PM
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198: The solution to which is the tostada, right?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:34 PM
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teo -- how'd the test go?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:36 PM
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The solution is a carne adovada enchilada with green chile and fried egg.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:36 PM
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I do love the influence that the hispanic communities have had on food in my area. We have a lot of El Savadorians. mmmmm pupusas.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:38 PM
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teo -- how'd the test go?

It went well, thanks.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:42 PM
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They have to be better, eb. They're more authentic.

Eh, they may or may not be more authentic, but they're definitely not better. There's a reason no one orders them.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:43 PM
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I'm sure that many members of all hispanic communities have horrible taste in food. Don't be so unwelcoming.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:43 PM
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205 to 202.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:43 PM
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Dos Coyotes gave money to support Prop 8

Having just spent a bit of time on this issue, I find no evidence that the above is true. If anyone has more information on this subject, please let me know.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:46 PM
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Encores! Encores used to common enough in opera -- if an aria came off especially well, the singer would park and bark the whole thing over again. This more or less does not happen anymore, or rather, happens only very rarely. The only time I have ever seen it was at the Met -- where the practice is ostensibly banned. Juan Diego Florez nailed nine high C's in "Ah mes amis" of La fille du regiment. The place went absolutely apeshit and he went and did the whole thing over again. (Management anticipated this happening, apparently.) Here's a Times article about it. And here is the adorable Florez singing it.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 12:59 PM
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208: Great comment, oudemia! Encore! Encore!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 1:06 PM
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I, for one, endorse the revival of the claque.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 1:24 PM
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208: Juan Diego Florez nailed nine high C's

I've done that without any training at all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 1:24 PM
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Wait, was Juan singing those notes or playing them on a piano?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 1:25 PM
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212: Neither. He was strumming a ukulele.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 1:27 PM
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They drink out of juice boxes in the opera? No wonder people have to dress up.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 1:27 PM
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Speaking of pianos, I saw a segment of "How It's Made" on the rolls of music for player-pianos. Apparently, they've computerized the machine that cuts the notes into the paper. They load them onto to an Apple IIe using a 5 1/4" floppy.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 1:37 PM
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If I knew where the company was, I could send them an Apple IIc from my parents' basement. It has 128k of RAM.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 1:42 PM
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207-- I'm pretty sure that Megan's thinking of El Coyote, a very well known, old, and terrible margaritas-and-greasy-enchiladas restaurant in LA that had a big gay following. El Coyote got in trouble when it was revealed owner donated to the Yes on 8 campaign. That was good news for me since the atrocious El Coyote is inexplicably one of my Dad's favorite restaurants, and now I can refuse to go there because of ... politics.

What meat goes in a New Mexico style hard shell taco? I'm having a hard time picturing Al Pastor in a hard shell.


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:00 PM
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What meat goes in a New Mexico style hard shell taco?

Ground beef or chicken, usually.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:04 PM
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In fairness, it was the owner's daughter, not the owner. The food at El Coyote is truly execrable, bordering on inedible, but like Halford's dad and half of the rest of L.A., I truly used to love that place. I haven't been back since the election though.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:16 PM
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219: It took a campaign contribution to get you to stop eating somewhere with food bordering on the inedible?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:20 PM
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The thing is, I remember my initial reaction and the source, a story on boycotting businesses around Sacramento. I remember being bummed about Dos Coyotes. But when I went back, I found what Ari found: no story in the Bee and no evidence of it in the databases on Prop 8 donors.

I would love if I were wrongly remembering something about Los Coyotes, because I like the food at Dos Coyotes. But I'm still, like, 70% confident about my initial reaction. So I don't know what to do. Stop making accusations I can't back up, probably.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:20 PM
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I confess to puzzlement. Why would the denizens of LA, a metro area that presumably has an abundance of quality Mexican food, love a restaurant with food that is "truly execrable"?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:21 PM
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I mean, I thought it was a point of pride among Angelenos that they, unlike the NorCalians, know good Mexican food when they taste it.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:24 PM
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Some coyotes that everyone can agree are bad.


Posted by: Amber | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:24 PM
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It really is kind of a mystery. The place itself -- the building, the patio, the lighting, the tchochkes, the history -- is really pleasant, and the waitresses are incredibly charming. It's a place you go because you feel affectionately towards it, not because you think the food is good. Which is why it was so easy to boycott -- once you learn that the restaurant is associated with bigots and jerks, there is absolutely nothing to recommend it. You were never a fan of the food.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:25 PM
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224: Wow, that's really, really weird. And sad.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:28 PM
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Well, they do have hard shell tacos. Mostly, though, they have very strong margaitas, it's a nice place to sit, and it has been around since the 30s and has a kind of old Hollywood vibe.


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:30 PM
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222.Re: EL Coyote. I believe it gained a reputation for "cheap eats and strong drinks". Has been coasting on that rep for years.

224. Nova Scotia coyotes? Must have been lost and therefore very hungry. I'd wager that folk singers leave a bad aftertaste.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:31 PM
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I see. And I shouldn't cast aspersions. We've agreed repeatedly that the pizza at that place next to Toronado is not particularly good, but hey, it's 1 a.m., we're drunk, and they're open.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:32 PM
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There are coyotes everywhere. They never attack people, though. At least I've never heard of a coyote attack. They usually go to great lengths to avoid people, which is why most people don't know that they're everywhere.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:32 PM
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Shit, I didn't even know coyotes could do that.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:34 PM
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I wouldn't say "never", Teo. Extremely rare. A coyote attacked a baby in Griffith Park a while back.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:35 PM
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Yeah, I mean, obviously coyote attacks happen; this one happened. It just seems so weird.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:36 PM
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I've seen several people state that this is the only recorded fatal coyote attack of an adult. Very strange and sad. How did coyotes get to Nova Scotia in the first place?


Posted by: Amber | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:37 PM
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Maybe the Mounties didn't want to alarm the tourists, and reported the attackers as coyotes, instead of a pack of ravenous wolves. I mean, really, what's so scary about Wil E. and his brother?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:38 PM
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Back home, the ranchers would shoot a coyote on sight. I assume they still do.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:39 PM
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Presumably they walked.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:39 PM
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232: Not to sound terribly callous, but a baby and a full grown adult are pretty different - a baby is much more like their normal prey. Coyote attacks on healthy humans are very, very very odd.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:39 PM
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238: Maybe rabies? Or extreme hunger?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:41 PM
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There are so many things wrong with comment 238 that I'm glad it was pwned.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:41 PM
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http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00260/facts/habitat.html

I like the colored pencil look of this map.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:42 PM
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239: When I read about it last night, I was wondering if they were sick, yes. I've had many friends lose pets to coyotes so I know they're not exactly innocent fluffy beasts, and I'm sure they could be dangerous if you were threatening them in some way, but it still struck me as so bizarre.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:43 PM
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It is also true that the northern coyotes (and New England ones in particular) are somewhat larger in size than western ones. Most coyotes do pack (smaller and less organized than wolf packs--a minority stay in mated pairs) but generally do not hunt in packs, going for smaller animals. They do team up for larger prey on occasion and there is speculation that this behavior has and will continue to increase in the non-wolf but deer-rich forested parts of their range (no wolves in Nova Scotia).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:47 PM
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235: They're covering up for the werewolves.

Did I already mention I recently had a Animal Planet/Disney perfect view of a coyote on the way to work in the morning? It was probably within a mile of the busy part of the Sunset Strip. I've seen several before but this one posed for me as the headlights hit that part of the curve. Wonderful.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:48 PM
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My favorite coyote pack was the one that scavenged on the beach where I grew up. If you stayed out late enough (this was a beach where fires and camping were allowed), you would see them begin to filter out of the willows around the lagoon that borders the dunes and come down to nose at all the leftovers on the beach. Moonlight, waves, sand and coyotes!


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:50 PM
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245: Just as a test, you should have tried to feed them roadrunner.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:52 PM
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They're covering up for the werewolves

Werecoyotes?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:52 PM
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Back home, the ranchers would shoot a coyote on sight. I assume they still do.

Turned a corner one day up in ag land and saw three or four coyote carcasses strung up on a fence. I cried, and probably would again.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:54 PM
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Rabies was my first thought. They're apparently going to run some tests on the carcasses, so I guess they'll find out.

It's probably also true that coyotes who see a lot of people around them may become less inclined to avoid people.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:58 PM
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248: Would you feel better if I told you they were probably werecoyotes?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:58 PM
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I've said this here before I think, but my one face-to-face with a coyote was on the corner of Balmoral and Magnolia in Chicago.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 2:59 PM
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241: I feel this weird comfort when good looking animals do well in human dominated environments. There's nothing ecologically sound about it--and its worse if people get killed--but I still feel better.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:03 PM
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The coyote is a really interesting example of successful adaptation to a human-altered environment.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:04 PM
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We've agreed repeatedly that the pizza at that place next to Toronado is not particularly good, but hey, it's 1 a.m., we're drunk, and they're open.

Dude, that place isn't "not particularly good". It's terrible.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:09 PM
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253: Like the Irish.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:09 PM
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249.2: It's probably also true that coyotes who see a lot of people around them may become less inclined to avoid people.

However, Cape Breton island and the place where the trail is located in particular is rather sparsely populated.

253: Yes. In general they have done very well adapting to human-dominated landscapes and that has aided the overall eastern expansion of their range immeasurably. The best things humans have done for coyotes is to have pets displace wolves.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:11 PM
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250: Depending on the situation, I might have a soft spot for werecoyotes, too. Are they charming when they're in human form?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:14 PM
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Everyone has a soft spot for werecoyotes' powerful jaws.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:18 PM
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258: The werejaguar is better for that. Other cats go for strangulation, jaguars just crush skulls.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:22 PM
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259: Then Diego is fucked once Baby Jaguar gets a bit older.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:23 PM
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"Baby Jaguar is playful, ambitious, and close to Diego's heart. He loves joining Diego on adventures, even though his physical abilities have not yet caught up to his youthful eagerness."

Let's hope neither one is prone to temper tantrums.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:29 PM
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Yes, let's. And let's also hope that Rescue Pack doesn't develop a love of practical jokes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:44 PM
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I'll bet werecoyotes like hard shelled tacos. May be a weakness, even.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:45 PM
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198: I don't like hard-shell tacos because they crack.

Yes, this. What is even the rationale behind them other than easy storage in fast-food racks? Past the initial storage filling phase they are subpar. Marginally OK as you bring them up for the first bite (but don't tilt them too much!), but freaking useless after that. Eating them with a fork and knife sucks too. I think they must be subsidized by Big Casualwear or Big Laundry.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:55 PM
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Between ¡Taco polaco! and Big Casualwear, it sounds like we should start the world's most ironic strip mall.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 3:57 PM
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Everyone knows that real authentic tacos are "Walking Tacos"--taco-y stuff mixed into a Fritos bag with the chips. Very popular at high school stadiums around here. I might even have one tonight since I am going to a game! I though they might have originated in these here parts, but apparently they first were sold at the 1982 Knoxville World's Fair (bet you forgot all about that fair). And I guess they really are just variants of the venerable Frito Pie.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:03 PM
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The book I'm currently reading informs me that 20% of the coyote scat sampled in the developed canyons outside San Diego contains domestic cat remnants. Because of this, the population of songbirds in those canyons in which coyotes reside is apparently both more diverse and robust and than in those canyons that don't have resident coyotes.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:05 PM
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Because of this predation...


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:06 PM
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1982 Knoxville World's Fair

My sister was a costumed performer at this event. A racoon, iirc.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:06 PM
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Everyone knows that real authentic tacos are "Walking Tacos"

"Frito pie."


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:11 PM
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I mean, I don't think they're really variants of Frito pie, are they? They're just... Frito pie.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:11 PM
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268: between that and the Korean DMZ, it's hard not to think that the solution to habitat destruction issues could be as easy as wide distribution of vicious predators and land mines.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:15 PM
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The salad place is Pluto's.

I've eaten there a couple of times. It was good, as fast-ish lunch options go.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:15 PM
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272: So, you've been getting mail from Ted Nuggent also.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:16 PM
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273: And now it occurs to me that it's a chain, not just in Davis.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:17 PM
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272: The weird thing with this research is that the habitat is still compromised; there are big-ass exurban developments covering the landscape. But the presence of what passes for an apex predator in that ecological niche seems to be cleaning out the cats, the legion of smaller predators unwittingly introduced by people, which means that the birds can thrive.

273: essear, you're not here, are you?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:19 PM
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275: Oh. Well, that's too bad.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:20 PM
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275: Yup, there's one down the street from me. Good salads for a fairly reasonable price. "Fresh food for a healthy universe." I didn't go in there for a couple years, though, because I was put off by multipart "Instructions" sign that greets you at the front of the restaurant and by the seeming requirement to decipher and fill out a complex card in order to order. I later learned you can just walk up the bar and order by looking at what's on offer and then asking for it.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:23 PM
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276, 277: I was thinking that we really need to have a Murder Burger meetup one of these days.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:29 PM
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273: essear, you're not here, are you?

No. I was there for a conference.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:32 PM
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1982 Knoxville World's Fair

I was there! I was like three and adorable.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:34 PM
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See? Don't make me think so hard. Just feed me. And what's with the outer space theme, anyway?

But I will forever have a soft spot in my heart for Pluto's because of the time when I left a box containing a year's worth of contact lenses there (so, ~$200 worth probably) and the fine folks there found it and kept it stuck away in a safe place for me.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:36 PM
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278, 282: Yeah, I think I had to be guided through the process by a regular the first time I went to one. On top of the complicated menu, there are like three or four different stations to get food at and a mob of people moving in different directions. Disorienting!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:38 PM
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I know someone who did research on noise effects on wildlife on bombing ranges. The results were that the noise effects from screaming overhead jets and being bombed regularly were trivial compared to the benefit to wildlife from the fact that people are shut out of bombing ranges.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:44 PM
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And what's with the outer space theme, anyway?

Their salads are <announcer voice>OUT OF THIS WORLD!!!</announcer voice>

(I've never eaten at one, actually.)


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:45 PM
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screaming overhead jets

The sound of freedom, baby. Or so say the zoomies.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 4:46 PM
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271: I mean, I don't think they're really variants of Frito pie, are they? They're just... Frito pie.

I thought the "innovation" was mixing it right in the Frito package, but otherwise yes same thing.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 5:01 PM
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284: Apparently Snowy Owls have extended their range south to colonize the MSP airport. The jets don't seem to faze them, according to airport people.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 5:23 PM
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266: It amuses me that "Walking Tacos" is a false cognate for "Wakȟáŋ Tȟáŋka", unfortunately I cannot figure out how to transmorgify that observation into an actual joke. I guess you can only expect one of those "Rufus Wainwright" moments once every six months or so.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 5:27 PM
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268: between that and the Korean DMZ, it's hard not to think that the solution to habitat destruction issues could be as easy as wide distribution of vicious predators and land mines.

It's become something of a cliche that one of the most wildlife-rich places in the UK (OK, I realise that's not saying much) is Salisbury Plain, the army's artillery range.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 5:35 PM
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If by cliché you mean matter of fact, this book suggests that's right.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 5:37 PM
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So is the problem with encores that they've tended to become de rigueur, in much the same way standing ovations are apparently just the done thing at nearly every theater performance I've attended in the last 10 years? The latter is, certainly, annoying.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:10 PM
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in much the same way standing ovations are apparently just the done thing at nearly every theater performance I've attended in the last 10 years? The latter is, certainly, annoying.

I especially like the ones where not giving a standing ovation gets you dirty looks from your standing neighbors. (I remember this happening, in particular, at one Chicago Symphony Orchestra concert I went to....)


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:18 PM
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They have absolutely undeserved standing ovations on the East Coast too? I thought it was just a crass midwesternism. (It seems to be dying back a little bit here, but that might be only because my choice of theaters has been improving.)


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:18 PM
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294: I wondered about that: whether the principal reason I see this more or less constantly is that I'm attending relatively amateur productions (i.e. we're not talking the Met), so that the audience either has lower standards, or really wishes to applaud the players in the most enthusiastic way possible, and there's nothing wrong with that!

I hope it's not dreadfully stingy to mention it, but I confess that I sometimes think that this automatic standing-O business strips the act of meaning, if you see what I mean. Ahem.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:29 PM
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No, it's totally right to criticize it. I know theater people. Theater people are my friends. And Senator, theater people do not approve of automatic standing ovations. It's like the dictionary definition of "middlebrow". Used to see it all the time in Omaha, and far too often in Mpls, where you'd think the constant pretension to NYC-oscitude would prevent people from humiliating themselves that way. But, sadly, no. It has been getting a lot better here in the past few years. You have to watch out for rep theaters with a high quotient of bussed-in audiences though. They're the worst.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:33 PM
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When one's standing O's become automatic, some would say, keep up with that, but personally I disagree: it's time to try one sitting down next time, or even on one's tummy.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:34 PM
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Also, why have I never seen a production of "The Lieutenant of Inishmore"? It totally sounds like the only McDonough play that I would actually grok.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:39 PM
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Theater people are my friends. And Senator, theater people do not approve of automatic standing ovations.

Friends don't let friends accept ovations.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:45 PM
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Man I gotta find a taco truck round here. Anyone in NoVa have one?


Posted by: Turgid jacobian | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:47 PM
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Also I am thinking of 'walking tacos' as a phrase being like 'walking around money.' I need to carry some just in case!


Posted by: turgid jacobian | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:48 PM
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299: You know, some of my theater friends do occasionally stage interventions like that. Until I've really acted though, I wouldn't feel comfortable fucking with someone else's standing ovation (other than by not participating).


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:58 PM
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297: I'm glad you're here, text. I wasn't sure anyone would be willing to run with that.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 6:58 PM
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tramps like us . . .


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:06 PM
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[cue large man on saxaphone]


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:07 PM
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Somebody probably already did this, but here's something white people like.

And another by the same pair.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:16 PM
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text and Parsimon, sitting in a tree, O-R-GASM-I-N-G.


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:18 PM
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Or perhaps I could better encourage people to follow the first link by saying that it's one of the best videos of all time. OF ALL TIME!


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:21 PM
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Aggh, why did I write that. I was trying for risque and jocular but sounded like the TOS.


Posted by: robert halford | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:24 PM
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Mostly you just needed another dash between GA and SM!


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:27 PM
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Yeah - they frown on S&M in Georgia.

max
['They always say it's so wonderful though.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:33 PM
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Vaguely on-topic: I was talking to a friend today about his friend whom he irritably described as "fussy," because said friend didn't like -- wasn't enjoying -- a performance of [mumble, something or other] they recently attended together, such that the friend excused himself early before intermission and didn't come back until late after intermission ended ... not that he actually left the hall and their evening, just sort of left for a while.

For some reason I felt the need for a note of caution, and observed that, Well, after all, I might leave an hour-and-a half-long punk concert. An hour and a half is pretty long if you really don't like something very much.

My friend agreed, of course of course, but this [mumble, whatever] wasn't like that, was a lyrical soaring interpretation of [uh-huh].

I kept at it for some reason: I might feel inclined to excuse myself for portions of a lengthy opera, I said.

My friend at that point made a vaguely sneery/hostile face and burst out: "Well, maybe you're fussy!"

Huh. Hours later, this is annoying me. I was quite mild in response at the time, just said that some things can feel like fingernails on a blackboard. I was right not to start a fight, though, right?

What I'd like to say now [in a fightin' mood]: Yo. I do not necessarily like what other people like just because they say I should like it. All this garbage "How can you not like {thing}" is for the birds. Also plus, cut it out with the messages I've been hearing lately that I'm staid.

I think I just need to make the friend in question in this particular scenario listen to the last few Jeff Beck albums.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:34 PM
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Unfogged: From Mexican, food blogging to Mexican food blogging.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 7:41 PM
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312: Huh. I do hate when people insist on you liking something just because they like it. But I'm also thinking that if I went to a show with a friend and he disappeared halfway through for an extended time, I'd be annoyed.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:00 PM
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314: To clarify, it was a group of them at the show. A foursome, I think. Also, it was a show calling for a seated audience.

Yeah, I see the annoyance factor, certainly, but what's wrong with a response like: Wow, turned out Friend was not into it at all, and he turned silly-weird and left; and then you shrug and note that Friend is ... Oh My God. Fussy?

Okay. I was probably being argumentative after all by taking issue.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:14 PM
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316

308 seconded. Holy shit.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:15 PM
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317

Actually, that version of "Single Ladies" is way worse than the original.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:16 PM
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your mom is way worse than the original


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:22 PM
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Well, I won't insist that you like it, neb.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:22 PM
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I liked it, Merganser. The first one, that is. Watching the second one now.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:24 PM
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320.1: But didn't you hear? It is way worse than the original.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:26 PM
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Apparently, they produced local blog hero Julia Nunes' record.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:35 PM
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I don't like the affectless delivery. She robs the song of its energy. (Is that the point? It might be.)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:38 PM
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324

I haven't even heard the original.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:54 PM
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325

-<em></em>
+<em></em>


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:55 PM
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Portlanders are very much into the automatic standing O. It's one of those mindless habits, like not using one's turn signals, that I'm convinced we exported to more sophisticated people. Since I'm usually reviewing when I'm at a concert, I stay seated to maintain an air of professional disinterest. Actually, I stay seated unless something really great has motivated me to get up off my ass.

You know what'll really get you dirty looks? Staying seated during the Hallelujah Chorus during a performance of Messiah, especially at an Episcopal church. Fuck off, royalists, I think, your silly custom is interrupting the flow of the music. I don't say it, of course, preferring instead to sneer at their un-Christian hostility in smug silence.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:12 PM
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Dude I know like Handel wasn't even British :D


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:16 PM
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326: I know what you're saying. I only stand to applaud if the top comes all the way off.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:19 PM
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I don't even really like any amount of applause. Why would you want to chase the music you just heard out of your ears by slapping your hands together like a complaisant seal?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:26 PM
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I like applause. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to unwrap the Twix bar until after the music.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:28 PM
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317 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:32 PM
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329 offers a great image, as we all shuffle about, greet friends, and/or file silently out the door. Kind of like going to a movie.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:37 PM
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332: People clap at movies. It's kind of weird, but they do it.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:41 PM
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People are strange.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:44 PM
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I've only seen that once, but I actually can't remember what movie it was, just how strange and fairly natural it seemed. Not Do the Right Thing -- that was notable for the entire audience remaining seated and silent through the entirety of the credits, and then some.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:47 PM
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The movie crowds I've seen clap have been on the rare occasion that I've gone the day the movie opened. But there were no people there to clap for.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:51 PM
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I saw Poles clapping and cheering for the Nazis against the heroic allied spies in the worst movie ever. That takes some doing. Talking about weird clapping, anyone else find the custom of clapping after a landing a bit annoying?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:09 PM
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I clapped when the second set of penguins came to switch places with the egg-sitting penguins. And then one of the eggs got dropped and froze in like two seconds. Then I felt foolish for clapping.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:09 PM
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Talking about weird clapping, anyone else find the custom of clapping after a landing a bit annoying?

You mean a commercial airplane landing? That sounds like it would be a nice communal thing to do, actually.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:13 PM
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I was on a flight where some people starting clapping for the landing without realizing that the pilot had only just leveled out for the landing, not landed. They were in the middle section and it was foggy outside. It turned out to be a bit of a rough landing and they were quite surprised.

I think that might be the only time I've heard people clap for a (presumed) landing.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:14 PM
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I was on a flight where they did an announcement about an unspecified "minor issue" meaning that emergency crews would be on the runway at the landing. People clapped for that. I made a mental promise to give more to the poor and to not fly that airline.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:16 PM
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Yo Nataly, Ima really happy for you, and I'm gonna let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time.


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:18 PM
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I don't see any reason for clapping for a routine landing, the only time I chose to go along was when we first lost one, then a second engine. The one time I've been seriously scared on a plane.

[cabin announcement: "We will be landing in Paris instead of Geneva due to the loss of a second engine, but no reason to worry we still have one left"]


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:18 PM
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The only movie theater with applause I know of is one where they show the insignia of the projectionists' union before the film, and people clap for that.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:19 PM
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341 Was that the 'we're having a problem with our landing gear' minor issue? Nothing like seeing the runway lined with firetrucks and ambulances.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:20 PM
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Jesus lives in the People's Republic of Portland. Except for that whole Hallelujah Chorus hang-up they have.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:23 PM
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I was on a flight where they descended for the runway in a storm and then pulled back up when it was clear - to the pilots and those of us with window seats - that they were not on line and likely not going to be level with the ground. So they pulled up and tried again. People were starting to freak out, mildly, before we landed fine a few minutes later.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:25 PM
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Has christwire.org been discussed here before? I'm being sent into paroxysms of disbelief, in particular by this and this. Please, someone tell me it's all a joke.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:27 PM
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Clapping when a pilot lands at Wellington is pretty normal; mind, that's a bit of a special case.

And when you land on international flights sometimes, but that's a bit different I think.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:28 PM
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345: The landing, if they hadn't have mentioned anything, would have been completely unremarkable. But, yes, the runway was lined rescue vehicles.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:29 PM
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348: The cat one seems accurate in general, if not detail. The Golden Girls one is really, really strange.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:34 PM
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It's gotta be parody "Soviets create Berenstain Bear porn to lure our children into sin" or "The Demonic Soviets have once again threatened our Christian nation. As we speak, Soviet dictator Vladmir Putin and his dog Medvedev are meeting with Iranian terror leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. [...]Putin's greatest dream is to see the flesh seared of the bones of your children"

Though MH is right, they do have a point about cats (cry, sniff, sneeze, cry)


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:52 PM
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353: It probably dates back to the conflict with Laud.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:53 PM
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Uh, 348, not 353. Anything that doesn't acknowledge in that context that dogs aren't exactly clean is absurd on its face.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:54 PM
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I have to admit that the part about the cat using its purr and meow to brainwash childless women into doing their biding hits a bit too close to home.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:55 PM
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The question in 348 has been asked before.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:06 PM
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The implied question, that is. Not the actual question with the question mark.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:07 PM
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30: Would you like a lake trout fajita ?


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:09 PM
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Answers differ, however.

I think I should get back to my required reading now.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:13 PM
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I'm a little puzzled at there being any controversy-- There's sidebar links to only liberal blogs labeled "axis of evil" and a post titled "I Am Extremely Terrified Of Chinese People". I have to admit the "How Is Baby Formed?" reference cracked me up.


Posted by: briefly visible | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:29 PM
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From the second link in 348:

Most gay relationships last a week. It is no coincidence that this is the amount of time between Golden Girl episodes when they first aired on primetime.... Sadly, with the Golden Girls in weeknight syndication, the youngest gays have confused this timetable to mean they need five new boyfriends a week.

Yeah, I'm going with "joke".


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:37 PM
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I'm a little bit in love with the phrase (from the "About the author" section) "Motivational Children's Party Entertainer."


Posted by: Jimmy Pongo | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 11:48 PM
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360, 361: Glad to know that tonight I was just extra-gullible.

And thanks, eb, for the links!


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:20 AM
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I'm a fan of 308 and can comfortably subscribe to 317. I saw the second link first and was smitten, then found the first link a clever application of their schtick to a surprising song; I can see if you saw the Single Ladies cover first, you might not be as charmed.

The puppet on the drum kick is funny.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:40 AM
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Also, while I'm being helpful, 222:

Why would the denizens of LA, a metro area that presumably has an abundance of quality Mexican food, love a restaurant with food that is "truly execrable"?

LA has an abundance of quality Mexican food, but a paucity of quality Mexican restaurants. The best Mexican food is from taco trucks or restaurants with outdoor seating areas. Changes are coming -- Babita's in San Gabriel is supposed to be excellent, and Rivera downtown has gotten great reviews -- but we still have a long way to go to catch up to Chicago when it comes to full-service restaurants.

We do have plenty of festive joints with ass-smackingly powerful margaritas, though. I used to hang out a El Conquistador a nice chunk.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:43 AM
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I'm increasingly convinced pomplawhatever sucks.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:44 AM
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I have no idea what pomplawhatever is, but I now think it sucks in solidarity.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 3:02 AM
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Putin's greatest dream is to see the flesh seared of the bones of your children

By contrast, eight out of ten coyotes said they'd much rather consume your children's flesh in taco form.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 3:36 AM
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284: to the benefit to wildlife from the fact that people are shut out of bombing ranges.

Sheesh, how PC is that? You're not allowed on the bombing range just to protect some wildlife.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:18 AM
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