Re: Coïncidence

1

There's only one "i" in "coïncidence", stanners.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:15 PM
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1: I was funnin' ya! And I won!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:16 PM
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Talk about it? Some people blog about it.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:16 PM
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It must just be considered cool to hang out with gay people now. At least at Halloween parties. But I'm not familiar with either of those tv shows; dunno who their target audience is.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 8:46 PM
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Gay people have their own Halloween?


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:10 PM
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For gay people, every ween is Slutoween.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:14 PM
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5: It's supposed to be a seekrit, Merganser, jeez.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:20 PM
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There's your answer, Stanley: it's not something people talk about.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:24 PM
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8: Wow, that was quick. On to tacos.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:26 PM
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10

Gay parties? Like, Halloween in the Castro?


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:27 PM
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Let's make this the Mike Doughty thread. Unlike my distaste for the work of Graham Parker, Randy Newman or Buddy Holly, I bet I can actually find someone to back me up in my distaste for the work of Mike Doughty.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:28 PM
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Authentic gay Halloween parties started in New Mexico.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:29 PM
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Which is why fish appeared at gay Halloween parties only in the past few years.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 9:37 PM
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8 Gay Halloween, choose crunchy or soft?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:14 PM
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10: Halloween in the Castro is no longer, sadly.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 10-29-09 10:20 PM
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16

Ruby Vroom is an incredibly entertaining album all the way through. Probably something you have to hear at the right time, though.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:46 AM
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That's not to say I doubt 11, only that I'm part of the problem, not the solution.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:47 AM
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15: what?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:08 AM
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2006 was the last one. The neighborhood had been complaining for a few years about how it had all become too much of a ruckus and some were making noises about trying to get it shut down. In 2006 they tried it one last time with supposedly more effort being made to keep things under control, heavier security, etc. Some dumbfucks still managed to shoot 9 people, and that was all she wrote. They made a really big effort in 2007 to make sure no celebration of any sort happened there. All the bars were closed, streets were blocked off--maybe even nonresidents were prohibited from entering. Everyone still thought that some sort of unsanctioned party would happen, but none did.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:42 AM
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9 people, holy fuck. If someone gets stabbed at a big UK event it's national news. I think there's been a couple of shootings over the past decade at Notting Hill [checking wiki -- 5 deaths in 20 years, only one gun-related].


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:30 AM
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It's not a party without a shooting.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 5:55 AM
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Everyone still thought that some sort of unsanctioned party would happen, but none did.
To my mind the whole '9 people got shot last time' would be enough to shut down the party without all of the other efforts. I think that as a society, we should reflect on whether we have done enough to stop costumed-gay violence.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:23 AM
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Authentic costumed-gay violence started with the Aztecs.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:28 AM
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Sure, but back when costumed-gay violence was done with flint knives, the risk to straights and non-costumed-gays was low.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:42 AM
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Why do all these costumed men keep stabbing me with their flint knives?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:52 AM
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24: obsidian knives, you racist.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:03 AM
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If I said you had an obsidian knife, would you hold it against me?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:06 AM
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Only for long enough to get the heart out.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:14 AM
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God, I chaperoned a portion of the annual Halloween dance last night, and it is always, always shocking to me that every last girl is dressed nearly in her birthday suit. All in wobbly, tall stillettos. Not just a portion of the girls, but every last one.

Here's how to go to the Heebie U. Halloween Party: Take an ordinary costume: police officer, fire fighter, Dorothy, Little Miss Muffet, a puppy dog. Make the bottom half into boy shorts or underpants. If there's a skirt, it should have attached, visible bloomers. Put fishnet stockings and four inch stilletos on. Configure the top into a bustier.

Worry about popping out of your top. Awkwardly arch your back all night to the point where you look visibly uncomfortable.

I think the part that bothers me most is the 100% participation. I know girls who protest are just not showing up, so this isn't the entire population. But still. It's overwhelming to see.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:18 AM
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But still. It's overwhelming to see.

Sounds awful.

So, anyone have any pictures from any Halloween parties to post?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:21 AM
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29: It is clearly just an attempt to stop gay-costumed violence by over-compensating on the heterosexuality.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:30 AM
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I chaperoned a portion of the annual Halloween dance

Chaperoned the--wait, what? These are college-aged adults, right?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:33 AM
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I'd figure it probably means "given that the dance is on school property, they assign some faculty to show up so that there's someone responsible if gunfire breaks out" rather than making sure the kids aren't dancing too close.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:36 AM
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I'm certain there is mutual causation between the chaperoning of college students and the popularity of slutoween costumes among those students.

Does Heebie U have "Christian" in its name? (I can't remember, and maybe you don't want to say.)


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:37 AM
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32: remember, if they're college-aged then, by US standards, they're not adults (unable to buy drinks, etc) and must still be supervised in case they run with scissors or use naughty words.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:37 AM
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I know, it is totally ridiculous and absurd. And check the archives; I believe I have the same grievance one year ago and two years ago.

There's not even any alcohol, but the sorority that hosts it uses a campus facility, so they have to have it chaperoned. (They could even have alcohol - the rules are that you have to hire a liscensed bartender who has to card each person - but they don't.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:38 AM
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Does Heebie U have "Christian" in its name?

Nope.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:38 AM
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But what are the chaperones supposed to do -- not literally enforce decorous behavior, right?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:40 AM
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If they're going to have chaperones they should do it properly and have one per female guest, who would vet potential dancing partners for eligibility, as in Jane Austen. "No, dear, you can't dance with him, he's an English major, he will never amount to anything. Why don't you wiggle your fan at Mr Keighley over there, he's pre-med and has excellent prospects."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:41 AM
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Hehehe. In New Zealand the universities think these things are a success if no one is (a) dressed as a Nazi or (b) throwing bottles at the police.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:42 AM
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I hate the New Zealand Nazi Party.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:42 AM
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Why don't you wiggle your fan at Mr Keighley over there

Your "fan," I mean.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:44 AM
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43

Sounds like high school dances, except for the lack of alcohol.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:44 AM
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One of the nice things about going to a Halloween party at a radical theatre is that, if there are skimpy costumes, they're artistic. I'm sure I could experience the full horror of it all if I hung out in the Warehouse district downtown, especially this year with a Saturday night involved -- even in the winter, the average Saturday night downtown sees a preponderance of young women in tops (and sometimes bottoms) whose square-footage of fabric would be more than doubled by the addition of a bandanna. Kids today. Sigh.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:46 AM
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39, 42: you spelled "fanny" wrong


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:47 AM
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40: interesting that in NZ it's taken for granted that the police will be called at some point in the evening, but as long as no one actually throws bottles at them it's OK.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:47 AM
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38 The instructions on my one chaperone duty stint at a Polish high school were: try to keep the drug use down, keep an eye out for anyone drinking to the point of needing an ER visit, and don't fool around with any of the students. When you're twenty three, the seniors are nineteen, and you're doing shots with them it can be a bit hard to remember the whole teacher (adult) student (not adult) concept. On both sides.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:49 AM
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You know how in France, if the riot cops don't show, the demonstrators feel insulted? There are student parties here where if the cops didn't turn up, everybody would fell pretty hurt.

(Not many, to be honest, and mainly in Dunedin, where the average student is drunk on a volatile cocktail of Scrumpy, Speights, and the fucking cold.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:50 AM
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48: just in case anyone was in any doubt that New Zealand was mainly settled by Jocks.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:52 AM
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I must admit that I've gone my entire life without forming any opinions about the settlement of New Zealand.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:54 AM
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50: it was a Good Thing.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:54 AM
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Some Halloween assistance needed: I'm going as The Bureaucrat Who Will Stand Between You and Your Doctor. I plan to carry a clipboard with a form (or multiple forms, depending how creative y'all get) that Socialism would make you fill out.

What questions and instructions should the form have?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:58 AM
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Don't British universities have annual traditions of getting utterly off it and charging the riot police because the pub's on the other side of the line? (I guess that's more of a football thing over there.)

(Certainly couch burning is a tradition ripe for introduction to the more northern universities of Scotland. It keeps you warm and gives the party a lively outdoor aspect.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:01 AM
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54

Are you a Christian? If yes sign up for the mandatory abortion counseling and gay sexx tutorial.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:01 AM
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53: Not in my limited experience.
I'm not sure why the riot police would be trying to stop a lot of drunk students getting into a pub anyway. Has a sort of King Canute feel to it.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:03 AM
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Oooh, oooh. It should have a special Death Panel bit.

And probably some sort of arcane waiting list set-up, with points on and off for all sorts of mad things, like lesbianism and Obamaism and so-on.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:03 AM
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54: Followed by:

Are you a Christian? If no sign up for the mandatory abortion counseling and gay sexx tutorial.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:04 AM
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57: which would take place, of course, in the Lecher Theatre.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:05 AM
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55: for the same reason the police do anything: they don't like other people having fun.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:06 AM
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54, 57: Thinking about it, I think we're thinking about the wrong bureaucrat.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:08 AM
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61

Are you white? Yes: No hip replacement for you, ofay.

or: How long do you want to wait for your hip replacement?
a) 3 weeks
b) 3 months
c) 3 years
d) die, motherfucker, die!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:11 AM
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Are you an illegal immigrant?

Yes. Why didn't you tell us that at the beginning? Dr. Miserably-Underpaid will see you now.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:16 AM
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60: Never mind. More reading incomprehension by me. Christ.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:23 AM
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Sir Kraab:

Add a surcharge for women.

Refuse to treat any conception preventing measures.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:27 AM
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62 Reminds me of my one official encounter with the Polish health care system (coming from a family of doctors most of my health care needs there get solved informally). Me dragging myself to an emergency room with a 104.something fever that wasn't responding to aspirin. After getting injected, they asked about citizenship status. Wrong answer. Asked how much I make. Not much. Nurse turns to doctor - "We just assumed he was Polish?" "Yup." "That'll be fifty cents please."


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:29 AM
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64: She wants satirical complaints about the nonexist Obama system, not actual problems with the real system.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:36 AM
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66: Beware the nonexist panels.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:40 AM
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68

Nah, I think the bureaucrat leans the other way on the reproduction issues. This is Socialism, after all. So how many abortions will you be having today? We're going to have to run a few tests to see if there are any pre-natal growths we can abort right now. May we abort your appendix?

And which hardworking regular folks shall we send the bill to?


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:42 AM
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And yet, Glenn Beckian fear mongering has its value. For example, I have a friend who has made substantial progress in getting her husband to move forward on a little [ahem] minor outpatient surgery because he is so afraid of what socialist medicine will be like. "Oh, we just take the whole thing off now, sir..."


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:51 AM
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69: Nobody's snipping me. There's not enough Xanax in the world to take away my fear that the wrong thing would get snipped.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:53 AM
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||

Help?

We have a new provost, who has limited the size of search committees to five people, and only two from the department. We're conducting a math faculty search this year. We have one of the bigger departments on campus, and there are two people senior to me, and so I'm not on the committee. The chair asked the provost for an exception, and he said no.

I'm very concerned about this, that I will not have a say in the hiring of someone I may work closely with for decades. (The chair has said that he'll put me on the committee back door - let me see the files, etc, and give my input.) The chair also said that he doesn't mind if I email the provost to say my own piece.

So I need to compose an e-mail in which I accept that I'm not on the committee, but air my concerns about the situation. Does the following e-mail accomplish this?

Dear Dr. X,
I understand that search committees are limited to five members, which is reasonable, and so I won't be on the math committee. I'd like to share my concern, however, which is this: I may be working closely with our hire for decades. It makes me nervous that I am not going to contribute to the selection of a future colleague with whom I will have such a close professional relationship.

Thank you for hearing me out,
Dr. Geebie

Feedback?
|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:54 AM
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Section 2: Eligibility for Special Discounts. Please check all that apply.
__ Black
__ Asian
__ Latino
__ American Indian
__ Non-Citizen
__ Other Non-White
__ Crack Addict
__ Unemployed
__ Union Member
__ Unemployed Union Member
__ Gay
__ Actor
__ Musician
__ White Sox Fan
__ Unchristian
__ Pedophile
__ Prisoner
__ Terrorist


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:58 AM
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Write (in spanish): "Send the bill to the hard working White People."


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:59 AM
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74

Rocket 69/70: Do they give out Valium for that? 'Cause that would totally be worth it.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:59 AM
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75

Birthdate:

If born before 1939, please proceed directly to the nearest death panel.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:02 AM
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76

It doesn't have a clear request. What is Dr. X supposed to do when he gets your letter? Appoint you to the committee? Seek your input informally?

It does read very civil. Ask yourself if you mind when he forwards it to the whole campus. I wouldn't be too worried about that part.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:03 AM
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71: I think signing it Dr. Heebie would set a more informal tone.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:03 AM
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76 to 71.

And possible to Kraab's form.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:03 AM
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79

Nobody's snipping me.

Yeah, me either.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:04 AM
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80

It doesn't have a clear request. What is Dr. X supposed to do when he gets your letter? Appoint you to the committee? Seek your input informally?

There's nothing for him to do, and there is no request. But I want him to be aware of the impact of this (asinine) policy on faculty members.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:04 AM
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81

Total lifetime contributions to Acorn.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:05 AM
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82

61, 62, and 72 are particularly good.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:06 AM
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69, 79: Now that I think of it, I'd be really irked if my wife didn't take 'no' for an answer after a reasonable amount of time.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:07 AM
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75: If born before 1939, please proceed directly to the nearest death panel.

Obamacare: Cleaning up what Hitler missed.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:07 AM
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85

And 68 and 81 and your comment and your comment and your comment. Snowflakes, every one of 'em.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:09 AM
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Apo, Moby: Do your wives stay on birth control for years and years? Would you be so unwavering if she reacted badly to birth control? Or would you use condoms indefinitely? I'm just curious.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:10 AM
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80: Huh. I don't think it really conveys what the problem is, at least not to an outsider. The person being hired is going to be your peer (junior, but a peer), right? What's self-evidently a problem about your not getting input?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:16 AM
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Or would you use condoms indefinitely?

If that is the only alternative to the big snip, sure.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:17 AM
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89

71 I understand that search committees are limited to five members, which is reasonable

Is it? I don't think so.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:18 AM
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90

Especially if only two of those are from the department! More than half of the search committee is from other departments? That seems completely insane to me.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:19 AM
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89: Yeah, I think it's bizarre and unreasonable, but whatever.

What's self-evidently a problem about your not getting input?

You wouldn't want to help select someone you're going to be collaborating with for decades? Really??


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:20 AM
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Maybe you should write the letter to the person with the power to change the policy or at least grant an exception, and cc Dr. X. Or at least tell Dr. X that you would like to consider your perspective in the hiring process -- these are qualities that I would look for in a colleague that you might not think of otherwise. "Be aware" is maddening. What should awareness change?


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:21 AM
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90: I know. I'm not totally surprised about the outside members, because this school is big on gen ed and being a holistic liberal arts place. The breakdown of the 3 other members is: 1 from a closely related department, 1 from somewhere completely different, and 1 minority.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:21 AM
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This is one of those academia things that doesn't translate well to the places I've worked, I think. I'm sure it makes sense in an academic context, but while I'd like to have input on hiring peers, I wouldn't expect it as a norm in the workplaces I'm used to.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:22 AM
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91: If this is the case, then don't say it's reasonable in your letter. You don't need to say it's unreasonable, either, but it shouldn't be a letter that gives him an opportunity to read it and think, "Oh, Heebie's happy." Cues like "which is reasonable" allow him to focus on those to the exclusion of your complaint.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:22 AM
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But I want him to be aware of the impact of this (asinine) policy on faculty members.

My kowledge of this sort of situation is 2d hand and decades old, but ignorance has never stopped me before, so here goes.

This attacks a fundamental principal of academia: the principal that a discipline defines itself; that the credentialed members of the discipline are the ones who have the expertise to decide who to admit to their ranks.

That's why it's customarily (or was, or should have been) the department who decides on new hires. The department may appoint a subset of itself to do the search, or conduct interviews, but it is the department (the whole department, and only the department) who votes on new hires. The department decision is then forwarded to adminisration.

In your situation it seems the provost has taken this taditional faculty prerogative for herself (himself? itself?). That means the provost - who may not have any expertise in mathematics - decide who is a mathematician and who isn't. Really, there's a fundamental issue of academic responsibility and freedom here.


Posted by: Michael H Schneider | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:23 AM
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93: How about "A minority stole my job on the hiring committee?"


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:23 AM
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Maybe you should write the letter to the person with the power to change the policy or at least grant an exception, and cc Dr. X... "Be aware" is maddening. What should awareness change?

Dr. X is the person with the power to change the policy or grant an exception. (I didn't actually use the phrase "Be aware". I just said I'd like to share my concerns.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:23 AM
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cont: and he already turned down our request for an exception.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:24 AM
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98: Then ask him to grant an exception in this case, and explain -- just as civilly -- that the policy is unreasonable in this case.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:24 AM
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95: Good point.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:25 AM
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102

I would totally get the big snip, and have offered to do so. Mrs. Chopper finds that her mood is better regulated when on hormonal BC, so told me I didn't need to, and in fact doesn't want me to because of the expense/potential for complications (no matter how small). I will say, though, that giving me a local and having me awake during the procedure would not fly. Knock me the fuck out, yo.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:25 AM
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I'm sure it makes sense in an academic context, but while I'd like to have input on hiring peers, I wouldn't expect it as a norm in the workplaces I'm used to.

It is completely the norm in academia. In the examples I'm familiar with, all faculty working in the group/subfield where the hire is being made get more-or-less equal say, regardless of their age or tenure status. They do all the screening. The wider department only sees a colloquium-style talk from one or two candidates chosen by the people in the group, and votes on whether to hire the person. The role of the rest of the university is pretty minimal, but I think there's some sort of rubber-stamping by a committee including people from other departments.

(All of this should be taken with the caveat that I am not, nor have I ever been, faculty, so I only see this process by going to talks by job candidates and talking to collaborators who are faculty and involved in the committees. And while they have many complaints about the way these committees go, none of them are excluded from the process....)


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:26 AM
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96 is very good! I wholeheartedly support it (and now I have to get away from the web for a few hours)....


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:27 AM
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96: It's a little different here because we're not a research institution, we're a teaching college. So we're not selecting the best mathematician, we're selecting the best teacher, (among five other criteria, but it's considered most important), which is a little easier to assess across departments.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:28 AM
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99:Ah, I see. That's in the first paragraph under "Help?" so I apologize for sloppy reading. And kissing.

Who's going to be the search committee chair? Can you lobby that person to let you "audit" the search committee?

or even.

"[addl paragraph about why this is a problem for me and how much a value my collegial relationships]"

"I hope this adequately conveys my concerns. In light of them, I ask you to help me find a way to address them in the hiring process."


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:30 AM
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103: Ah, got it.

So, heebie: Are you the only math department faculty member not on the committee? Maybe a way to phrase it would be something like "I understand that the structure of the committee only allows for two math department members. Nonetheless, given my strong interest (or "the strong interest of the unrepresented members of the department" or something like that) in contributing to the selection of a future colleague with whom I will have such a close professional relationship, I'd like to talk with you about whether and how it might be possible for me to remain informed about the selection process and to have some form of informal input into the process."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:32 AM
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95, 101: I suspect that, like me, at the end of every interaction you still want everyone to like you/think you are accommodating, etc. Because my inclination is always to put in that little conciliatory note or give an "it's really OK, don't worry" smile at the end of the meeting. Per k-sky, very counterproductive in certain situations, but still very hard for me to do. (My boss has no such compunction.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:35 AM
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Oh, wait, I'd missed this:

(The chair has said that he'll put me on the committee back door - let me see the files, etc, and give my input.)

So you've got what I thought you should have asked for in 107 already. What's your goal in writing to the provost -- making it clear that you disapprove of the five member policy?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:36 AM
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Especially if only two of those are from the department! More than half of the search committee is from other departments? That seems completely insane to me.

SERIOUSLY.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:36 AM
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Since we've already asked for an exception and been denied, I'm loathe to make it sound like I'm still asking. Also, my chair is willing to make me an ad hoc member, behind Dr. X's back. (My chair is awesome, btw.)

So basically I want to communicate: "there are outrageous consequences of your stupid policy that you should be informed of. :) "

Are you the only math department faculty member not on the committee?

The only tenure-track one. There's a lecturer and four adjuncts because we're exploitative like that.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:38 AM
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What's your goal in writing to the provost -- making it clear that you disapprove of the five member policy?

Yes. And why.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:39 AM
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There's a lecturer and four adjuncts because we're exploitative like that.

I hope you at least pay your adjuncts a living wage.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:40 AM
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Now that I think of it, I'd be really irked if my wife didn't take 'no' for an answer after a reasonable amount of time.

Given that this is a friend who spent 2 weeks in the hospital pre-birth with the docs trying to keep her blood pressure down so she didn't die but to give the babies just a little longer to incubate so they wouldn't die either and whose epidural wore off in the middle of the c-section and whose husband works night shift so hasn't been especially available to help with the existing babies... She gets to nag. Though I think it's officially more a position of "Hey, get snipped or don't, it's up to you. But until you do, you can keep that thing on your side of the bed."


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:40 AM
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The objection is really to the policy, right? Not so much your personal situation (where you're going to be able to offer a lot of input, in practice, supposedly). I think that if you want your letter to have any meaning at all, it has to be more firmly worded, and less "thanks for hearing me out."

I would aim for something like: While I understand that the university's dedication to general ed means that it is important to have broad representation from different departments on search committees, and also that it's important to ensure that committees don't balloon out of control, I really must register my objection to this new, overly restrictive policy.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:41 AM
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I hope you at least pay your adjuncts a living wage.

Hahaha....no.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:41 AM
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114: O.K. In certain circumstances, nagging might make more sense.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:43 AM
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I went up for a junior teaching position a few years back, and the panel had no philosophers on it at all. Which was ... weird. Some of the other academics I mentioned this to couldn't believe it.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:43 AM
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While I understand that the university's dedication to general ed means that it is important to have broad representation from different departments on search committees, and also that it's important to ensure that committees don't balloon out of control, I really must register my objection to this new, overly restrictive policy.

This is good. But not the whole thing, right? I'd continue by explaining why I find the policy restrictive?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:43 AM
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So we're not selecting the best mathematician, we're selecting the best teacher, (among five other criteria, but it's considered most important), which is a little easier to assess across departments.

I don't see the difference.

I would think that the first criterion should always be "knows the material." Even if you're the best teacher in the world, if you don't know the subject you'll not teach it. You may do a great job of teaching something that someone from the Welding Arts department might thinks looks just like mathematics, but that really shouldn't be sufficient. And on principle, only a mathematics professor should have the jurisdiction to decide who knows the area well enough to be allowed to teach it.


Posted by: Michael H Schneider | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:43 AM
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This is good. But not the whole thing, right? I'd continue by explaining why I find the policy restrictive?

Yes, definitely.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:44 AM
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Even if you're the best teacher in the world, if you don't know the subject you'll not teach it.

Anyone with a PhD does not have any trouble with undergrad math. This isn't a selective criteria.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:45 AM
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112: Ah. I'd stiffen the letter up and depersonalize it. The problem is that you, heebie, don't get input when you'd like to, it's that given broadly accepted standards for the academically responsible selection of faculty, it is anomalous and improper for tenure track faculty in a department to be excluded from a search committee. While you understand the motivation behind his desire to limit the size of committees, you would ask that when these policies are re-evaluted, that the negative consequences of not allowing input from all relevant faculty members are considered, and that he consider either making the policy more flexible, or being more willing to grant exceptions in future.

Largely, I didn't get what the problem was because I'm ignorant about academia, but I also didn't get it because it really wasn't stated in the letter. If you're getting your concerns on record, I think laying them out explicitly is the way to go. (Craven avoidance also works, and would probably be my strategy personally, but then I wouldn't write at all.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:47 AM
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Anyone with a PhD does not have any trouble with undergrad math.

I would like to introduce you to some of my colleagues in the humanities.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:47 AM
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And I'm pretty much pwned by redfox.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:48 AM
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Apo, Moby: Do your wives stay on birth control for years and years?

So far. But we've only been married for ~6 years and have had two kids in that time, so it hasn't actually more than a couple of years so far. I'm quite willing to admit that my stance is not wholly rational, but it is my stance nonetheless.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:48 AM
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124: I've told the story about the social scientist I worked for in high school who didn't really understand the formula for a standard deviation?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:48 AM
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But you provided more material for Heebie to crib from! Value added.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:48 AM
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I meant: Anyone with a PhD in math does not have any trouble with undergrad math.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:49 AM
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I'm quite willing to admit that my stance is not wholly rational wide


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:49 AM
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130: So go ahead and knock on the stall wall, or I might not get the message.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:51 AM
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Put a sign on your door that says, "Come see the lack of input inherent in the system." With that I banish myself to my workplace.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:51 AM
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131: Knock three times on the panel if you need me.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:52 AM
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This isn't a selective criteria.

Now you're letting facts undermine principle. Or rather, you're letting whatever institution granted the PhD define the discipline for your institution. That undermines the authority and autonomy of your department.

This is a classic academic turf battle. Provost wants the power. Its up to you to person the barricades, to stand firm for the rights and privileges of generatations of mathematicians yet to come.

Maybe I'm overreacting because I heard about a situation at a branch campus around here where people from the Welding Arts and Automotive Technology departments were deciding who should be hired to teach literature in the English department. Quite literally. And, of course, they somehow always chose people who would support the Branch President and the Tech departments.


Posted by: Michael H Schneider | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:53 AM
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Wow, it is so uncomfortable for me to compose this letter more stiffly and less apologetically.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:55 AM
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You guys who fear the big snip are being completely irrational. It has no perceivable effect on your sex life other than preventing another screaming, amoral, insane midget from entering your household. You are just clinging to an empty symbol of your manhood.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:56 AM
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You are just clinging to an empty symbol of your manhood.

That's what you do after the operation.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:57 AM
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135: You can soften it a lot without weakening it if you're forgiving rather than apologetic. His policy sucks, and should be changed, but you totally understand the forces that led him to impose the sucky policy and empathize with the position he's in -- you're not judging him for screwing up, just pointing out that the policy as imposed has severe negative effects.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:04 AM
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Wow, it is so uncomfortable for me to compose this letter more stiffly and less apologetically.

If only you knew of someone with expertise in that particular field - perhaps a very sharp NY lawyer with training and experience in writing persuasive letters. Sure, anyone with a post-graduate degree in most anything can write a simple letter, but sometimes real expertise can improve even the simplest attempt to school a provost.

However, perhaps the composing should be googleproofed so the provost won't figure out that this is a letter you copied off the intertubes.

You are just clinging to an empty symbol of your manhood.

For some of us, that's all we have left.


Posted by: Michael H Schneider | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:04 AM
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136: I'm afraid of a surgeon who is hiding his Parkinson's because he has to keep working to pay-off a debt to the mob.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:05 AM
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You guys who fear the big snip are being completely irrational.

Already admitted. Don't care.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:07 AM
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You can soften it a lot without weakening it if you're forgiving rather than apologetic.

It took me a minute to figure out which of the two conversations going on in this thread this sentence related to.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:07 AM
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However, when it's just me, helpy-chalk, and the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders down in McMurdo Station after the nuclear holocaust, tasked with keeping homo sapiens from going extinct, we'll see who laughs last.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:11 AM
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I think the cheerleaders would almost certainly be cracking up at some point.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:13 AM
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You're referring to my clever bon mots, I assume?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:18 AM
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But of course.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:19 AM
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136: To clarify, I've got no problem with getting fixed. It was actually my doctor who has talked me out of it so far. But I will get it done at some point. I was just pointing out that a Valium scrip would be like icing on the cupcakes.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:22 AM
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144: I think the cheerleaders would almost certainly be cracking up at some point.

See, I'd have thought they would be screaming in terror at the sight of Apo's ginourmous black cock.

max
['Such deadly peril.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:26 AM
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There are going to be chickens involved?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:28 AM
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I ain't living in Antarctica without fresh eggs.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:33 AM
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150: some sort of ginormous black hen would probably be more use for that.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:43 AM
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150: hence the cheerleaders.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:47 AM
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Cock's required for replacement hens.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:47 AM
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Cock's required for replacement hens.

Most unfortunate craigslist post ever.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:51 AM
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The worst bit is all the people answering to point out the misplaced apostrophe.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:58 AM
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And then Apo having to point out that it's a contraction, not a possessive.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:02 AM
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I like my apostrophes like I like my women: flexible, but properly placed.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:07 AM
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I like my apostrophes like I like my women: possessive.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:09 AM
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I like my apostrophes like I like my women:flexible, but properly placed possessive, or undergoing contractions.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:10 AM
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Not contracting?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:10 AM
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Foamy.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:16 AM
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If "cock's" is a contraction for "cock is" (that is, a statement related to the existence or state of the cock) then the apostrophe used in a contraction serves to shorten that up and so perhaps possessive is more desirable, even if grammatically improper in context.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:17 AM
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I bet I can actually find someone to back me up in my distaste for the work of Mike Doughty.

I thought your comment in the previous thread was a succinct critique, ned, but I got distracted by a shiny thing and forgot to hit submit.


Posted by: winna | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:22 AM
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That's why I've chromed my submit button.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:24 AM
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Overuse of "cock's" is a symptom of subconscious fear of incision.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:26 AM
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Moby's afraid his doctor might suffer an untimely Freudian slip.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:27 AM
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I can chrome your submit button from clear across the room, baby.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:29 AM
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166: Actually, I like Apo's cheerleader scenario better, so I'm going with that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:29 AM
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166: Actually, I like Apo's cheerleader scenario better, so I'm going with that.

Station's full, buddy.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:32 AM
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111

The only tenure-track one ...

Wait a minute. Is this a tenure track hire? Are you going to be competing with this person?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:35 AM
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136

You guys who fear the big snip are being completely irrational. It has no perceivable effect on your sex life other than preventing another screaming, amoral, insane midget from entering your household. You are just clinging to an empty symbol of your manhood.

If you think it matters then it is likely to matter.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:37 AM
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My original plan was to schedule a vasectomy while AB was in the hospital for the birth, but it turns out that service isn't available at Ex-Mayor's Women's Hospital. In the event, AB's doctor suggested an IUD as preferable to surgery. Part of the presumption, I think, is that the IUD should last ~5 years, and so 2 or 3 insertions will get us past any threat of accident.

I will admit that I had, in the back of my mind, the idea that I'd want to save a few vialfuls, just for emergency backup - the tribute rationality pays to irrationality.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:40 AM
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Those cheerleaders aren't going to repopulate the planet by themselves, after all.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:43 AM
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My sister had a job that required her to vasectomize mice. Maybe she could branch-out for a side job.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:43 AM
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Was a jeweler's loupe involved?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:45 AM
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Wait a minute. Is this a tenure track hire? Are you going to be competing with this person?

It doesn't work quite like that.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:46 AM
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175: I didn't ask. The topic is not one on which I wish for details.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:46 AM
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Speaking of, what with the new optical mice for computers, the young ones just growing-up won't get jokes that involve playing on the phrase "mouse balls".


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:49 AM
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And Congress does nothing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:50 AM
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176->173.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:50 AM
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179 to 180.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:53 AM
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So the gay mice will be going to the Hallowe'en ball? With cheerleaders? At Heebie's school?


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:13 PM
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Those cheerleaders aren't going to repopulate the planet by themselves, after all.

No, but not even Apo can keep all of 20 women's libidinous needs completely satisfied. And they'd have to be feeling pretty shell-shocked by the loff of their world and all the people they've ever known, except for there squadmates. They'd need to comfort each other. Maybe in the shower...


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:14 PM
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loff

My occasional lapse into Elizabethan typeface shouldn't confuse you, so I'll make clear that I meant what you insistent typeface snobs insist on representing as "loss."


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:16 PM
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184: I think that would be lofs, not loff.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:17 PM
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except for there squadmates

"There, there, squadmate. I'm sure he'll wake up soon. Let me soap up your ribcage."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:22 PM
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God damn it.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:29 PM
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182: So the gay mice will be going to the Hallowe'en ball? With cheerleaders? At Heebie's school?

Yep. And Heebie will be trying to drill these cheerleaders on basic integration, and then the mice will show up and they'll have to imitate a 1950's sitcom as they have been trained to do (professionally!) and then Apo's ginourmous black cock will show up and pound all the mice to death, but the cheerleaders will be even more freaked out that thing, and so the cheerleaders will run away and Heebie will be totally pissed and thus forced to drill Apo's cock instead.

max
['What?']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:58 PM
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Faloffel?


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:59 PM
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||

I am in nerd nirvana: I can now control my old computer with my new computer, meaning that I can set it up as my music center without putting a keyboard or screen in the living room. Now all I need is 50' of Cat 5 cable* (or maybe a 50' mini-jack to red/white audio input cable).

* Or an airport card for the old machine, but that seems not worthwhile

|>


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:41 PM
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You could get a USB wifi single for less than an airport card I wager.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:45 PM
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191: Good point.

The other issue is that the wifi/router is on the third floor, and reception on the first floor isn't all that great regardless.

The third issue is that it would be nice for the old computer to act as a print server for our 2, possibly 3 printers, which obviously doesn't work in the living room.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:01 PM
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I've been wondering if I can justify a netbook purchase by using it as a music remote.


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:09 PM
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To whom would your justification be made?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:10 PM
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OK, which of you broke att.net with your partying and cavorting and all? Fix it, damnit! I wants mai emails!


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:33 PM
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190: JollysVNC?

I set that up with my retired desktop G4, but I wonder if I could turn it into a more powerful media center than my Apple TV, now that you mention it.

Hmmm....


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:45 PM
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further to 196 -- right now it's just sitting under my desk, serving as an occasional fax machine and storing old documents that I didn't feel like transferring to the new machine but didn't want to throw out.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:48 PM
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|| Rory formally introduced me to her crush today. "Mom, there's someone I'd like you to meet." He shook my hand and said it was nice to meet me. |>


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 3:15 PM
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198: Wow, when did Rory turn 17?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 5:04 PM
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196.1: No, with the Mini (the old computer) on 10.4 and the MacBook on 10.6, simple, built-in Screen Sharing.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 5:05 PM
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Awesome, Di

||

Today I saw a cyclist breeze through a red light as I and others were trying to cross the street. I really wanted to throw a rock in her wheels so that she'd fall over.

|>


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 5:27 PM
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198: K and his young lady are in a relationship, according to their Facebook profiles.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:27 PM
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202: Awwwww. That sounds quite serious!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:13 PM
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