Re: Okay, you worthless punks. Grab a knee and listen up.

1

Many years back I used to go to a college boxing club where classes consisted of about 90% conditioning work, 10% boxing work. Complete with a grizzled old trainer who yelled at you. Proper 'Rocky music/training montage' stuff. I don't think I've done anything else where I've seen people literally unable to get off their hands and knees, and where people left the room to puke.

What is IM, btw?


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:27 AM
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Intramural.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:33 AM
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1: alas, in the army the PTIs are no longer allowed to continue PT until someone throws up, which used to be the standard. Health and safety, y'see.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:36 AM
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I miss being on a team with a coach. I like being in shape, and I don't actually mind the effort of working out, but actually making myself get to the gym and making a plan for what I'm going to do kills me. If I just had the time to schedule something regular, rather than sneaking off to the gym at lunch when I have a day slow enough for it, I'd be all over the boot-camp thing.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:39 AM
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1 Try climbing, no screaming old men necessary. Extra bonus, in the evening you can be starving and have serious difficulty holding a fork. Skiing can do it to you too. One of my favorite things in the world is hitting a steep wall or culvert really hard till I collapse in the snow. While I'm on the topic - why is skiing so much more expensive in the US than the Alps?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:40 AM
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Too bad, heebie. You *just* missed the tryouts for The Ultimate Fighter 11.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:47 AM
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These days, by default rather than by choice, I am the coach. But we don't really train that hard: if there's only 2 hours of s /\vate a week, better to spend it on technique work and sparring. I manage despite being in quite poor shape [except for the tiny subset of physical abilities* that I couldn't do without].

* good balance, decent flexibility and decent anaerobic fitness**

** which is quite different from aerobic fitness. I've seen people who do triathlons for a hobby completely gas out after a couple of rounds.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:50 AM
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Relevant:

www.britmilfit.com, www.britmilfit.co.za


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:53 AM
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re: 8

Yes, there's one of those started on Saturday mornings in one of the fields near my house. I might go once I recover from my last bout of minor injuries.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:55 AM
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Actually, look at the website, looks like the one near me is a splinter movement.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:58 AM
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I miss being in shape but I don't miss the effort of working out. That shits painful, yo.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:13 AM
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I would love to sign up for one of those boot camp exercise programs that health clubs offer, if I had time.

Between that and money, isn't this probably the case for most people?

Or what do I know, maybe there are lots of people out there who have a ton of free time and aren't fit because they're just lazy.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:14 AM
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When I get some free time, I read blogs until it goes away.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:16 AM
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Or what do I know, maybe there are lots of people out there who have a ton of free time and aren't fit because they're just lazy.

That's probably me. I cycle or walk to work, I do 2 hours of martial arts a week, and that's it. I could do more if I wasn't i) lazy, and ii) prone to knee injuries.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:19 AM
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I adopt this post as my own. I am extremely hard working on a team or with a coach, and a total slug by myself.

I am also certain that is due to some moral or mental deficiency on my part.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:24 AM
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15: everyone's like that, Will. I read a study recently (on Cambridge rowers, I think) that showed your endorphin levels are actually higher if you exercise in a team than if you do exactly the same exercise by yourself.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:27 AM
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Between that and money, isn't this probably the case for most people?

Regarding boot camp or having a trainer, absolutely not. If I had more time, I'd bike more, and I wouldn't mind joining a regular (noncompetitive) group ride, but the kind of rigorous, organized training people are talking about holds no appeal for me. Non-recreational exercise (everything from weights to spinning classes to serious running) bores me to tears - I enjoy cycling because it gets me out and about, and even a hard ride doesn't leave me as wiped as a hard training run (the kind of training required for a 5k is fine - when I'm in good cycling shape, it's really just a few weeks of occasional running to get me conditioned for that. But more than that, like my friends who are doing a half-marathon Sunday? No way).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:28 AM
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16: That's because rowing by yourself means you just go in circles.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:28 AM
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My gym has a somewhat boot-camp-y class twice a week; I've been going on Saturday mornings for a few months now. It's mostly weight stuff, but the "rest time" between weight sets is rather fast jogging in place or a couple of minutes in plank position.

(At least, I was going on Saturday mornings; I may have to take a few weeks off, as the jogging part seems to have caused me some leg pain that Dr. Internet describes as shin splints).


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:35 AM
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12: Laziness is complex. I kind of enjoy putting out physical effort, even non-recreationally. But I'm incredibly lazy about making myself actually do anything -- if it's not hardwired into the schedule, I just won't get out of my chair.

When I say I don't have time to exercise more, I mean that I don't have enough time that I can reliably schedule frequent exercise and not have to move it around ad hoc in response to other stuff. I'd have plenty of time if I was good about grabbing an hour when it comes up, but I'm not.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:36 AM
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18: Scullers in a single don't row in circles.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:37 AM
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21: Ellipses.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:38 AM
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21: I assumed they just took the boats for crew and put one guy in the boat. That research design would limit between group variation to only the number of people in the boat. Clearly the cleanest design.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:42 AM
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Between that and money, isn't this probably the case for most people?

True. But I think I'll try it in the summer, when I do have time.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:45 AM
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When I say I don't have time to exercise more, I mean that I don't have enough time that I can reliably schedule frequent exercise and not have to move it around ad hoc in response to other stuff.

My problem exactly. Literally the only time I'm able to do this is if I'm willing to get up at 5:00am. Which, despite multiple attempts, I'm just not willing/able to do on a consistent basis.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:51 AM
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23: actually, they used ergs. Much easier way to measure intensity of effort.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:54 AM
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26: But that's clearly limiting you to say that for inherently boring exercises, being in a group is better. They really need to put a full team in a boat and have them row, then put one guy in the same boat. To add generalizability beyond boats, they should have two teams play tug-of-war and then have one person play tug-of-war alone.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:57 AM
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I'd click on the links in 8, but I'm not all that temptated by the idea of Brit MILFs.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:58 AM
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one person play tug-of-war alone.

Never heard it called that before.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:59 AM
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I can think of nothing worse than having some old coach figure yelling at me for being weak. Seriously, when I have a major depressive episode, complete with suicidal ideation, I generally hear a coach in my head telling me I'm worthless and should be dead. I have no fucking clue why anyone thinks this is motivational, let alone fun.

Since I mentioned suicidal ideation, I'll go presidential.


Posted by: bill clinton | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:00 AM
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I used to want to work out until I was wrecked. But my trainer has convinced me that I'll make better progress in the long run if I pace myself so I can come back the next day. One of the big revelations of working with her was that a fair amount of her job is judging when to stop (earlier than I would).

I know that I don't work out alone and I'm never self-motivated. But I never miss a workout appointment. A lot of it does come down to the part that I have the time and I can spend the money that way. I'm lucky to be able to arrange my life around working out.

Also, I think I'm too old to put up with a bully-style coach. Look, I paid and showed up. I'm obviously very motivated. If I'm here, I'll give what I got. All I need the trainer for is instruction and an outside eye to tell me my plank is sagging.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:02 AM
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The op reads as a good setup for Modern Love.


Posted by: E | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:05 AM
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IME British women appreciate sarcasm much more than do Americans. In the US, anything but engaged optimism, or at least lip service to that attitude, is more often seen as a loser's stance.

A coworker talked me into coached group exercise. Not my thing, but the coach added stuff I didn't know, pointed out the importance of variety. I see exercise as medication-- keeps episodes of depression much briefer and less intense. Finding a way to do stuff outside makes a really big difference to me-- some time in a gym is OK for variety, but they're terrible places, worse than airports.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:05 AM
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A coach can push you hard without being too brutal.

Yet, implicit in every "You can do it!! Keep Working!" is "Dont be a quitter/loser/[insert word that starts with p and ends in y]."


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:09 AM
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Pansy? Porcupiney?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:10 AM
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Pinky? Popeye-y?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:11 AM
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The only thing that has ever been able to get me up and out the door before 6am is competitive sports. I definitely prefer and probably push myself harder working out with a group*, but I also love the long solo runs before sunrise.

Just about my favorite thing to do in the world is a Saturday group ride with the local cycling club. This is theoretically a non-competitive ride, but hotter heads typically prevail, and the alphas will hammer until a selection of 6-12 riders is made. I have never returned from one of these "recreational" rides with an ounce of effort left in the tank.


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:13 AM
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persnickity


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:13 AM
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34 is right - if you keep telling people that they're worthless then they'll give up. Good coaches are more encouraging than that - and, in reference to 30, there's a tremendous boost from finding that, with encouragement, you can run much faster or work much harder than you had hitherto thought possible.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:13 AM
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I think that I have mentioned this before, but in my second year of college, our new distance assistant coach asked us to describe what we like in a coach.

A guy from California went on and on for 15 mins about how motivation comes from within and how his energy as to be just right. My roommate and I gave some answer about how we like to be motivated without bullied and called a piece of sh-t.

My other roommate just said "I like it when the coach yells at me like that."


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:17 AM
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I agree with the team thing, but I did like that you couldn't really hear the coach while actually swimming. In particular having a crew coach zipping around in a speedboat "motivating" via bullhorn seems like it would be hard to take even in a team context.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:18 AM
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I also swam for a guy who threw kick boards at swimmers and another coach who got so pissed off that he threw the lifeguard stand into the pool.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:19 AM
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40: Yeah, my experience training and coaching various sports is that there are those who respond well to verbal brutality (and not much else) and those who do much better with positive encouragement and are destroyed by harsh treatment.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:22 AM
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Yet, implicit in every "You can do it!! Keep Working!" is "Dont be a quitter/loser/[insert word that starts with p and ends in y]."

That is only if the recipient hears the message in the second part. I was surprised by it, so I guess I don't. I'd say the implicit underlying message is that this set makes me a tiny bit closer to meeting my goal (whatever the next goal is) and did I really mean it when I set that goal?

IME British women appreciate sarcasm much more than do Americans. In the US, anything but engaged optimism, or at least lip service to that attitude, is more often seen as a loser's stance.

Which is funny to me, because I've had a few instances in blogland where I got the impression that British readers were missing my sarcasm entirely. Enough that I've wondered at a cultural gap. Maybe there are different kinds of sarcasm.

I am a big fan of engaged optimism, though, so that part was right on target.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:23 AM
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42: A story about Mark Schubert (a prototypical "hard-ass" coach) I recall reading, was about a parent who got so frustrated at him at one point that they picked him up and threw him into the pool.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:24 AM
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Maybe there are different kinds of sarcasm.

I get the impression that Brits do less wide-eyed-faux-innocent sarcasm than we do; they're more straightforwardly acid.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:26 AM
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Or what do I know, maybe there are lots of people out there who have a ton of free time and aren't fit because they're just lazy.

This was me until earlier this year. I've been astounded at how well my body's responded to the amount of exercise I've been doing lately, and it's all down to being willing to spend 2 hours in the gym three times a week, plus an hour on the off days. Finding the time wasn't the problem, finding the motivation was.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:27 AM
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British people are pretty sarcastic, and also pretty tuned in to it, I think. Although maybe it's not coming across in text.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:27 AM
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I know I've talked about Tae Kwon Do before here and gratuitous pushups and stuff, but I can't find the link to the appropriate comment. But that could be a good option. It wasn't as strenuous or in-your-face as an actual boot camp, of course, but it had its moments. And of course, it varies from school to school.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:29 AM
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One plus, I can hit people I am 'coaching'.* It has a certain motivational effect.

* I feel a bit of a fraud as a coach, but I'm the only person in our club qualified to do so, and the more qualified instructor can't currently teach classes.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:31 AM
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British women use puns to express their sarcasm.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:36 AM
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Yeah, I think it is what LB said. I do a fair amount of the "wide-eyed-faux-innocent sarcasm". Sometimes I call it engineer-ingenue. I just don't understand you "people", with your "relationships" and "interactions". Why don't you use a simple solution, like concrete?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:40 AM
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That's pretty easy to miss in text.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:42 AM
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more straightforwardly acid.

Yes, here this seems often mixed with personal bitterness, which is unappealing. Faux-innocent is friendly, often just a rhetorical style.

Regarding engaged optimism, there's no choice but to keep going and find things one likes, but the world barely works, and apathy and greed explain much of human behavior. Politely overlooking most of your social environment seems wrong.

Written humor to strangers is extremely difficult IMO, doubly so if the form is terse. Or my sense of humor is lame and my perceptions are dull; maddeningly, these propositions are indistinguishable from my POV.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:46 AM
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Yes, here this seems often mixed with personal bitterness, which is unappealing

Perhaps to you. I'm awfully fond of bitter, unpleasant people.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:51 AM
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55: it's an acquired taste, like strong cheeses. Others should start with savory people and work your way to bitter gradually.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:55 AM
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Somehow, I'm reminded of one of my favorite cartoons.

Two guys in a coffee shop:

A: "I'll have an iced cappucino, please."

B: "Hrmpf. I like my coffee like I like my women. Hot!"

A: "Me too. Cold, pretentious, and in glasses."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:01 AM
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45: one of the high points of my college swimming career was when the volleyball coach came to morning practice, pissed that our coach was sleeping with someone else, and tried to throw him in the pool. She had about three inches on him but was probably short ten pounds and so couldn't quite do it. Still fun to watch, though.

Coaches are awesome because they can tell you what you are doing wrong and hopefully nip bad habits early on.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:05 AM
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30 reflects my view. There's a balance between motivation by encouragement and motivation by disparagement of poor effort, and IMO both are needed, but I can pretty much do just fine without someone telling me I'm useless.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:13 AM
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Certainly I've much more enjoyed recent coaching -- since I started doing my current martial art -- than I have in the past, as the coaching takes the form of encouragement and technical feedback/analysis, rather than disparagement of any kind. Although she does sometimes kick me in the head.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:19 AM
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57: I once sat next to a very attractive woman on a flight from SA to the US. We flirted a bit, and when the Flight Attendant came by the woman asked for her coffee "Like I like my men: sweet and white." I killed my chances with her by asking for my coffee "like I like my women: hot and black, with milk." The Flight attendant loved it, but at the time I had one of those moments of deep embarrassment at my inability to censor my snarky impulses.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:19 AM
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"Me too. Cold, pretentious, and in glasses Tied in a sack and thrown over the back of a donkey by Juan Valdez."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:19 AM
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57: Huh. That's funny, I wouldn't have thought of what you said as particularly more over the line than what she said -- a bit, in that hot is a little more aggressive than sweet, but not way out there.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:22 AM
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What does it mean to take your coffee "black, with milk"?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:23 AM
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Chocolate milk?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:23 AM
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That the woman you're flirting with is black, but you like milk in your coffee.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:24 AM
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I get the joke, LB. I was just bemused by the thought of ordering coffee "black, with milk". I might try it tomorrow at the coffee shop, just to test the reaction.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:25 AM
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If the counterperson actually hears and parses it correctly, I'd expect to get either a question or a cup of black coffee with a couple of those little sealed containers of half-and-half.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:29 AM
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"I like my pumpkin spice latte like I like my women. Full of pumpkin."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:30 AM
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"And with nutmeg sprinkled on top. Hold still while I get the grater..."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:31 AM
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62: "...regularly imported fresh at great cost from third-world nations."
I'm sure this conversation has happened before.

"I like my whisky like I like my women: eighteen years old and kept in the cellar until called for."
"I like my men like I like my yoghurt: rich, thick, and Greek."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:33 AM
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"I like my men like I like my back bacon: greasy, porky, and Canadian."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:34 AM
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68: I'd expect to get chocolate milk.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:34 AM
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like I like my women

Foamy.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:35 AM
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I like my women like I like my smorgasbord: healthy, Swedish, and topless.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:36 AM
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73: You're disappointed often, aren't you, Brock?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:37 AM
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For some reason the idea of Brock at a coffee shop waiting expectantly for the counter people to break out the secret stash of chocolate milk is cracking me up.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:37 AM
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66: She was white. I just objected to the specification of race in her semi-joke/semi-flirt. My response doesn't actually make sense unless you read "milk" as "boobies." Which nobody does. Until now.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:37 AM
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I like my coffee like I like my women.

Served topless.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:38 AM
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My response doesn't actually make sense unless you read "milk" as "boobies."

I read it as "lactating", which was part of why I thought you thought it was off-color.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:39 AM
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"...like I like my counter-insurgency troops: light-weight, imaginative, flexible, and reasonably inexpensive."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:40 AM
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78: Oh, that changes everything -- you weren't so much flirting back as giving her shit for being kind of racist. Which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, but I can see how it put the kibosh on the prior flirtation.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:40 AM
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I love those "like I like my women" jokes, although I never get the chance (or at least, never notice the chance) to make them in context. "Tied up in a burlap sack in rural South America, thrown over the back of a donkey and delivered by a short Hispanic guy."

Actually, I'm not all that much of a coffee connoisseur. I take it black, with sugar, and French.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:43 AM
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Having gotten the races wrong, I understood it as "Well, golly, since you just said you like sweet white guys, and I'm one of those, I'll return the compliment by saying I like hot black women, given that you're one of those, but add 'with milk' so that the flight attendant doesn't actually give me black coffee, which I don't want." And, the whole explicitly racialized flirting thing seemed weird, but I was figuring it probably made more social sense if everyone involved was African.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:44 AM
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Our friend google gives us this "...the way I like Saudi oil: light, sweet and crude."


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:48 AM
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I read it like Brock, and as a slight knock on her, and thought both would discourage further flirting. I also thought it was a great response.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:50 AM
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My response doesn't actually make sense unless you read "milk" as "boobies." Which nobody does. Until now.

What else could it mean?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:53 AM
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"... the way I like my fast food: cheap and greasy."


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:54 AM
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If you're hopelessly clean-minded, as a request for milk in the actual cup of coffee being ordered. I work at innuendo, but I'm not a natural.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:54 AM
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"...like I like my coffee - cheap and low quality, but provided free by my employer."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:55 AM
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I have coached both college men and U16 girls in lacrosse. Not surprisingly, different motivational techniques are required for each group.
Motivational speech not recommended for the girls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Nf1MK7lts


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:56 AM
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55

Perhaps to you. I'm awfully fond of bitter, unpleasant people.

Good to hear.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:58 AM
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So, in short, the line did not work out for togolosh because the ensuing debate throughout the plane regarding what exactly the joke meant ultimately killed the mood.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:01 AM
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93 pretty much sums up my dating career.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:02 AM
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Buck is tolerant, or clueless? Don't answer that.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:04 AM
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"... like I like my thermometers: digital and inserted rectally."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:04 AM
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92 is adorable.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:04 AM
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97: Get a room, you two.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:07 AM
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98 to 92; 55.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:08 AM
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I am not what one a reasonable person would call a "team player." My rich assortment of deep-seated childhood issues faults includes a jejeune contempt for both authority and community. That said, sometimes I do wish I had someone to drive me to row on the Concept II harder and/or longer, or to lift more weight, because I feel like I've plateaued.

I don't drink coffee, though.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:55 AM
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You like your coffee like you like your women: not at all?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:59 AM
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I work at innuendo...

Go slow, lots of lube.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:01 PM
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This discussion reminds me of the time I saw "Zero Hour" on cable. I'd read about this movie as being the basis for "Airplane" and that was true. The dialogue was exactly the same, excluding "and don't call me Shirely".


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:03 PM
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"...the way I like Saudi oil: light, sweet and crude."

Unfortunately, Saudi oil is actually fairly low-grade and sour. Realistically, though, it's really all we can get.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:22 PM
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The dude over at Rortybomb had a pretty amazing one today when he considered going to a Too Big To Fail protest in San Francisco and bringing a sign that says "I like my banks like I like my women, small and well-capitalized".


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:26 PM
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105: This breaks down when you start to think about the deposit slip.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:27 PM
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104 sounds like my love life...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:28 PM
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107: Have you tried offering a toaster for all new accounts?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:30 PM
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Di, if you have big enough reserves, somebody's going to invade you eventually.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:33 PM
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106: Actually, just like with banks, I'd prefer if everything I put into women comes back out to me eventually.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:36 PM
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"I like my women the way I like my sciences: hard, well-funded and experimental."


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:37 PM
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I'd love to have a boot camp style officer yelling at me to drop and give them twenty.

You see, this is why I think there's money in a business that combines the roles of coach and dominatrix.

"Our coaches will whip you into shape! You'll drop and give them twenty and you'll lick their boots while you're down there, you contemptible worm!"


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:37 PM
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Have you tried offering a toaster for all new accounts?

I'm pretty sure Di is straight.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:38 PM
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Yeah, all the guys are obsessed with Tier 1 capital these days. I blame the media.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:38 PM
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110: With interest?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:40 PM
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I dunno, if they're too interested in giving it back, I must be doing a bad job.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:52 PM
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116: My biggest fear is that they won't give it back.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 12:57 PM
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like my banks like I like my women

Want to come upstairs and see my tranchings?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:05 PM
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You like your coffee like you like your women: not at all?

Worshipped from afar, unattainable.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:07 PM
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"...coffee like I like my women: every morning, in the kitchen, before I shower, but after I pee."


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:13 PM
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"... available for a few dollars at convenience stores and gas stations everywhere."


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:17 PM
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Every morning, we get our coffee beans out of the freezer and then grind them up. So I think I will stay out of this conversation. Although BR does bring me my coffee every morning...


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:19 PM
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110: watch your investment grow!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:20 PM
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"...expensive, having an Italian name, and with a dollop of whipped cream."


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:22 PM
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"... shit out by a civet cat."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:23 PM
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"...weak and milky."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:29 PM
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"...in very small cups."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:30 PM
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watch your investment grow

I may appear too big to fail, but we know it's really just the leverage that does all the work.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:32 PM
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"... pale and sweet."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:35 PM
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"...passed off to me by a surly English major with other aspirations."


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:37 PM
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"... scalding my lap."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:37 PM
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"... staining my teeth."


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:40 PM
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"....containing sediment."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:43 PM
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"...vente with soy milk in a to-go cup"


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:44 PM
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"... a hot beverage that I consume by drinking."


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:46 PM
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"...full of Irish Cream."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:46 PM
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"...generic, fast, and halal like from a NY street cart"


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:47 PM
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on my front porch while I talk with my neighbors.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:48 PM
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"I like to have sex with cups of coffee."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:49 PM
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"You know, actually I don't like my coffee that way."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:49 PM
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I was raised by a cup of coffee.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:49 PM
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136 "... boozed up and weak like an Irish Coffee?"


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:49 PM
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Some of my best friends are cups of coffee.

No, this is true.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:50 PM
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"We've secretly replaced Sifu's wife with Folger's Crystals. Let's see if he notices."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:50 PM
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"...spit in by surly barristas."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:50 PM
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"...strong, exotic and paid a living wage like fair trade"


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:51 PM
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I don't even own a coffee.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:52 PM
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"... insipid, but from a recognizable estate that I can tell all my friends about."


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:52 PM
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133 Jammies is Turkish?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:52 PM
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Folger's Crystals are cooking my dinner!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 1:56 PM
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"... making me tense and sleepless."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:00 PM
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I was debating whether or not to read this thread. I'm glad I did.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:01 PM
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I'm not feeling clever enough to contribute anything, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:01 PM
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153: When I had that feeling in a seminar, I'd just rephrase what the previous person said.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:06 PM
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"....who gives me a sweet and low wake up every morning"


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:08 PM
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"...that I can visit with my mom while enjoying."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:23 PM
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This Twix bar is all stale and nasty (like my women.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:24 PM
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157: Only two members of your department are allowed in the 'fresh candy' committee. However, they are willing to describe the taste of a non-stale, chocolate and carmel covered cookie.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:39 PM
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Sorry, I have to insist that they pronounce caramel correctly. That's a dealbreaker.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:41 PM
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". . . after a big meal, especially if I'm drunk."


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:42 PM
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"I like my women the way my grandmother likes her coffee: one right after another, with just a cigarette in between."


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 2:49 PM
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161: "I like my women coffee the way my grandmother likes her coffee women: one right after another, with just a cigarette in between."

Ahhhhh.

max
['I stuck my Folger's in the dyke.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 3:21 PM
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||

So apparently my driver's license expired yesterday. Fuck.

|>


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:05 PM
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163: You should get that fixed. In Virginia, it's technically grounds for declining to sell you booze, though rarely enforced in practice.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:14 PM
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Well, Happy Birthday. (I assume.)


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:14 PM
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164: also, it might make it more difficult to drive legally.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:19 PM
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I once flew using an expired driver's license as my ID, which is technically allowed. Ha ha! TSA loved to hear about how it was technically allowed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:19 PM
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164: Yeah, I'm going to go over to the DMV office on Monday and bring every scrap of identification I have. Hopefully they won't make me take the fucking test or anything. The website is not very helpful about what to do in this situation.

165: There's a one-month grace period, so you're a month late.

166: Not much of a concern, at least not immediately. I don't have any need to drive here. If worst comes to worst I could get a non-driver ID card, but I'm planning to go back to NM from time to time and it would really suck to not be able to drive there.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:21 PM
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the fucking test

I don't see how fucking has any bearing on your driving capabilities. Jersey really is a weird place.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:24 PM
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I was hoping someone would grab that low-hanging fruit. Thanks, Stan.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:25 PM
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I'm pretty sure the NJ driver's test just involves backing out of a parking lot after a few shots, so you should be fine.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:25 PM
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This isn't really that big a deal, but it's kind of emblematic of a whole series of things I really should have been dealing with starting when I first moved here that I haven't dealt with yet. Getting a job, for instance.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:26 PM
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164: Yeah, I'm going to go over to the DMV office on Monday and bring every scrap of identification I have. Hopefully they won't make me take the fucking test or anything.

The same thing happened to me here in Ohio, and it was in every way not a big deal. May it be the same for you!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:38 PM
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That's reassuring. Thanks, shrub!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:41 PM
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171: While filing your nails and listening to Bon Jovi. That's certainly how I took it.

172: YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE TEST AGAIN. Not even written. And you don't run into any kind of trouble until your old license has been expired for some number of months.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:50 PM
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174: Oh! What you may need -- and this was a problem I had in NY not NJ so I don't know -- is an actual Soc. Sec. card.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 4:51 PM
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I sure hope I don't need my social security card, because I don't have it with me. Judging from the NJ DMV website I'm pretty sure I don't.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:28 PM
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No sir, I don't have my Social Security card, but I brought this DNA sample.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:29 PM
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Anyway, I've got my birth certificate, passport, now-expired NM license, utility bills, credit cards, etc. I'm sure I'll be able to establish my identity sufficiently with some collection of those.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:30 PM
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For what it's worth, teo, if the DMV website doesn't make things completely clear (*exactly* which forms of ID are acceptable, in this case), I've found that a phone call can clear things up and save a potentially wasted trip to the DMV. But usually the websites are pretty explicit about forms of ID.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:37 PM
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Yeah, it's very clear about the forms of ID. What's unclear is just how much less acceptable an expired out of state license is relative to a valid one. I could call, but since I have to go in to get a new license one way or the other I think it's simpler to just show up with all the documents I have and work it out there.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:39 PM
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164 173

Also no big deal in New York (albeit pre 911).


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:40 PM
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182: The Iroquois were very lax about paperwork until well past that date.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 6:55 PM
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181: Sure, okay. I'd go for the phone call if it were me, but that's because a trip to the DMV here is 45 minutes of driving plus an hour waiting while there, only to potentially find that the absence of a valid out-of-state driver's license necessitates a social security card. Or something. They can get weird at the DMV, and then they just send you away until you have the proper documentation; flexibility isn't really a language they speak, at least in most states.

Just mentioning. I of course feel that an expired out-of-state driver's license is fine as a form of ID.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:00 PM
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184: Yeah, that's certainly a concern, but I hate talking on the phone enough to take my chances.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:07 PM
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I've called the DMV once. It was in Ohio and I needed to register a car with out-of-state plates. Brought everything they told me and still had to make a second trip because the person on the phone didn't know anything.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:10 PM
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185. Snort. I hear you. Turns out Bill Moyers is talking to some guy about the origins of the conservative movement or something related -- gonna go watch that.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:21 PM
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I think the DMV did more to start the libertarian movement than the conservatives. And that if they still made you take the written test every four years, Ron Paul would be president.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:24 PM
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In California they make you take the written test over even if your other license isn't expired.

In MA you can get one reissued after expiration as long as it has been expired less than 6 months. I think that it costs a bit more once it's expired though, but I'm not sure. I converted a DC license to MA with only a couple of days to spare and was glad that I had.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:44 PM
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Since 189 wasn't clear, I meant that they make you take the written test when you want to convvert an out-of-state license.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:46 PM
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Yeah, I would bet you'll have to take the written test (but you would have to when converting from an out of state license, anyway).


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:48 PM
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No, I definitely wouldn't have to take the written test if my license weren't expired:

Knowledge and road tests are waived as long as you have a valid, non-provisional driver license issued by any of the 50 states or District of Columbia

It doesn't say anything about what happens if your out-of-state license is expired. If you don't have a license at all you do have to take the test, of course.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:52 PM
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Oh, huh. Intriguing! I've never been so lucky as to move into a state that didn't require the written test.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:56 PM
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I just remembered that you might way to check what types of payment they accept. When I came to PA, I had cash and credit. They took neither, which never occurred to me. So I had to go buy a money order and wait in the line again.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:57 PM
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I sure hope I don't have to take the test. I looked at the sample test on the website and it's all this super-specific stuff about NJ traffic laws that I definitely don't know. I am good at test-taking in general, so I'd probably have a good chance of passing it even without studying, but it would really suck to show up and fail the test.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:58 PM
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They definitely say all over the site that they accept pretty much every form of payment, probably precisely because of that concern.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 7:59 PM
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195: Many years ago when I moved to PA, I went to renew at some rinky-dink place out in the country past where I worked and they orally gave me a 5-question test of which you could miss one. I missed either the 1st or 2nd on one of those specific "number of feet from" type dealios and was sweating the last few. Presumably you could just retest later but my license had expired and I had visions of them nailing me if I drove out of the place after failing. It is all much more standardized these days.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:04 PM
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Presumably you could just retest later but my license had expired and I had visions of them nailing me if I drove out of the place after failing.

If your license had expired, couldn't they have just nailed you for having driven there in the first place? If they really wanted to nail you, that is.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:05 PM
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198: Hmm, I guess so. Maybe I was drunk and not thinking too clearly. I showed them by not ever registering my car for the year I was there or filing a state income tax return. I was John "state-level" Galt.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:10 PM
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200!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:20 PM
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it's all this super-specific stuff about NJ traffic laws

"When turning left, you should:
A. turn left
B. turn right
C. A, except when the answer is B"


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:24 PM
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I really shouldn't be letting this get to me this much. I guess it's just that I've been having a lot of trouble accomplishing anything non-school-related since I've been back in school, and this is the instance that put me over the edge. I'm doing really well in my classes, which is hardly surprising since I've always done really well in school, but I just can't seem to make myself accomplish anything else that I really need to do.

Partly I'm just stressed out because I haven't been able to find a job and I'm starting to run out of money.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:24 PM
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201: Exactly.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:25 PM
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why is skiing so much more expensive in the US than the Alps?

I bet it was one of those ideas cooked up by that Aspen crowd.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:28 PM
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But what about Davos?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:31 PM
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202.last: Good luck at that. I can see how that would get stressful.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:34 PM
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Does Davos have a specifically ideas event?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:38 PM
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I guess it's not really specifically about ideas per se.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 8:44 PM
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I've never gone skiing in Davos, but I've done the other big high end Swiss and French resorts. The Swiss tend to be a bit more expensive than France, with nicer villages but poorer skiing. Apartments tend to be both significantly bigger and more expensive in Switzerland. On the other hand even the Swiss ones are cheaper than in the US, and of course all Alpine stuff is slopeside.

Come to think of it, it always amazes me how few Americans you see skiing in Europe. Sure the flight costs more than going out west, but when you factor in housing and tickets it's a wash or better, and you get much larger skiing terrains and a far higher percentage of runs above tree level (in some cases all of them are).


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:15 PM
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I've never gone skiing. And I have to decide tomorrow if I want to go to Aspen this winter. Hmm.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:27 PM
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I'm leaning toward "go somewhere colder in the winter? that's crazy talk", but maybe I'm too disgruntled over my anticipated trip to SoCal falling through.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:35 PM
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I absolutely love it, but I've been doing it for as long as I remember so I'm not an objective observer. A decade or so ago I calculated that I'd spent over a year of my life skiing. If you do go then if you possibly can get lessons. Skiing is not an intuitive sport, quite the opposite in fact, and it's very easy to fall into bad habits that will be difficult to break later on.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:36 PM
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Mountains are beautiful, and skiing is a huge rush. I've never been out West, but I hear the weather is pretty good. The one place where cold is a really big deal is the Northeast. That can be miserable on a bad day.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:38 PM
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I've been to Aspen before, but in summer. And the place kind of creeps me out, beauty aside. I don't like being in a place where the people working in the restaurants can't afford to live within a thirty mile radius.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:42 PM
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Partly I'm just stressed out because I haven't been able to find a job and I'm starting to run out of money.

Yeah. Yay for the worst economy in living memory! I remember job hunting before; it was decidedly not like this.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:47 PM
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Think of it this way, you probably can't either. And other than rent regulated apartments, it's true of most of Manhattan as well.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:47 PM
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One other advantage of Europe though, the folks working there can either cram into apartments on the slopes or rent one of their own five or ten km down the valley.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 9:49 PM
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Thank you. I laughed for 5 minutes reading those punch lines.

You'd think these folks would have boot camp classes, but no.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:01 PM
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Think of it this way, you probably can't either.

This is true. And it was a nice place to work and relax for a couple of weeks. There's just something a little disconcerting about all the obvious wealth on display.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:09 PM
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You should go, essear. You don't have to ski.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:25 PM
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Don't listen to teo. You *definitely* have to go skiing.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:28 PM
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Or as the post title says, ok you worthless punk go destroy your knees.

Though I've never had injuries worse than bad bruises (next weekend, after a party, pretty girl "uuuh, I'm not really into that..."), mild knee and back tweaks (all involving _not_ falling, but only barely), and one really painful neck (backbiter gone badly wrong).


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:35 PM
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I'm in Mammoth. HJ and I drove 6 hours to surprise a friend by showing up at his wife's friend's party in Mammoth, which he doesn't know anyone else from LA is going to (and we won't know anybody at, save for the other four people who came from LA). Now that I'm here it seems a bit strained, but we're going as Snow Princess Leia and the Yeti Knight so what-hey-ho.

They had snow last week but didn't open the slopes, fuckers. I haven't skied since 1993, but this was the last place I did. Someday.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:37 PM
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I went through Mammoth on my big California trip a few months ago. It was snowing so hard that I had to detour into Nevada.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:40 PM
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I've only been downhill skiing once, on a youth group trip to Salt Lake in high school. It didn't go well. I ended up on a slope well beyond my beginning skill level and basically tumbled down the mountain, breaking one of the bindings in the process.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:42 PM
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Needless to say, I have no desire to go downhill skiing ever again.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:43 PM
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Yeah, I'm not sure I would find other beginners to go skiing with. I had to steer clear of the "want to join us on a hike? we're planning to bag four fourteeners by noon" people the last time I was there.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:48 PM
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Why? Falling is part of the sport. Slopes beyond your ability are going to be frustrating and scary, particularly for a complete beginner, but you just need to stick to the easy stuff with someone who can tell you what to do and work your way up.

Re Mammoth - places out west that I've really wanted to try are Mammoth, Squaw Valley, and Jackson Hole.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:50 PM
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The ski area will almost certainly have classes, so you won't have to work very hard to find other beginners. I say go for it; I loved skiing when I lived in Colorado, and there are few better places in North America to go than Aspen.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:52 PM
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Squaw Valley

Really? From talking to skiers/snowboarders here, it always sounded to me like conditions in the Sierra were consistently worse than in the Rockies, but that the runs made up for it by being shorter.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:54 PM
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So far, no mammoths.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:56 PM
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Yeah. Yay for the worst economy in living memory! I remember job hunting before; it was decidedly not like this.

Being ineligible for most work here - especially during the first six months when off campus is absolutely out of the question - has insulated me from the job market. Yay debt? Maybe. In the US, I'd likely be unemployed, job hunting, and with higher debts, actually, because of the out-of-state thing. And even with the restrictions here, there's more opportunities for second+ year students, and I can still pretend that the market will look better in a couple of years when I'm done. So my denial is working out ok. I try not to think about it too much.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:59 PM
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I've heard that Squaw Valley has some really great super steep runs. As long as the moguls aren't too big that's paradise for me. But maybe I'm misremembering.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 10:59 PM
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I learned to downhill ski at Squaw Valley. As I remember it, it's sort of split level. For beginner/intermediate, which is all I ever was, there are some shortish runs whose base is at the top of a gondola ride. Then there are some higher lifts from a similar base, for higher intermediate and advanced. And then there are some lifts from the valley base - same elevation as the gondola, but different slope face - for advanced runs. You can string things together to make a long run, but it takes multiple chair lifts to go back up. It was definitely fun to end the day taking the intermediate-level trail all the way down to the parking lot.

I've never skied in the Rockies, so I can't compare. Aside from the Sierras (Bear Valley and Squaw Valley), I've been to Shasta and Mt. Bachelor in Oregon, all more than 15 years ago. Mt. Bachelor was my favorite in terms of variety of runs.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:08 PM
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Why? Falling is part of the sport.

You just answered your own question.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:08 PM
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The talk of jobs led me to scan some of the listings on craigslist, which are fascinating. "Phlebotomist wanted!"? "Looking for ladies who are comfortable with their body"? I bet you are....


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:08 PM
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233: Those sound like the advanced runs that start from the valley base. I don't think I ever did any of those. I think the Olympic ski jump was set up on that side of the mountain.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:09 PM
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They do cross-country skiing in Aspen, don't they?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:09 PM
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I don't think it's possible to talk at any length about skiing without sounding incredibly toolish. I say this as someone who lived for a season at Whistler and remains very happy to natter on at length about the continent's best places to ski and board. I'm a tool, what can I say?

Also, essear, I don't know how old you are, but beginning to learn how to ski or snowboard after one is twenty-five or thirty is really hard. (If you're a great athlete, that will mitigate the trouble, I'm sure, though I wouldn't know first hand about such things.) And the risk-to-reward ratio doesn't usually work out very well. It's likely that several people will now refute these statements. They are wrong. Seriously, before you make your decision, consider how much time you're willing to devote to recovering from a relatively-minor-but-nevertheless-nagging injury.

Finally, Aspen is a really terrible place, especially in the winter. As Josh says, the skiing is fantastic, but the people there are generally horrible. This is not true of every ski area in CO, by the way. Copper usually features lovely people. And A-Basin, which is mostly the domain of locals, is terrific. Even Crested Butte is a much nicer crowd than Aspen, which, again, is overrun by miserable fuckwits. See? Toolish.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:12 PM
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Teo, would you consider doing research for someone on the faculty at Rutgers? I'm not saying I have someone in mind. But I could look into the possibility, if you'd like. And what about Princeton? Is that too far away? And while we're talking about commuting, how about in the city?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:15 PM
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234: I'm probably biased 'cause I learned to ski at Winter Park, which has beginner runs all the way down from the summit, along with plenty of advanced runs. I don't think there's anywhere like it in the Sierra.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:18 PM
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Also, essear, I don't know how old you are, but beginning to learn how to ski or snowboard after one is twenty-five or thirty is really hard. (If you're a great athlete, that will mitigate the trouble, I'm sure, though I wouldn't know first hand about such things.)

I'm a little more than halfway between the two ages you mention, and not at all an athlete. If I go to Aspen I would be there mostly for a conference, albeit one that has a scheduled ski break every day, where this would be the main social activity (and the main purpose of the trip for many of the attendees)....

the people there are generally horrible.

Right, this was my impression from my previous trip.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:19 PM
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Teo, would you consider doing research for someone on the faculty at Rutgers?

That's exactly the sort of thing I would like to do, but it turns out to be harder to get jobs like that than I was expecting. I think I mostly just need to try harder. Princeton or NYC would be doable as long as I wouldn't have to commute very many days a week, but I don't think it would necessarily be any easier to find something there than here.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:20 PM
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I should note that I've never been to Aspen. My knowledge of Colorado ski towns begins and ends with Durango.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:21 PM
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Goddammit. Now I want to go back to Colorado to go skiing.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:22 PM
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Teo should apply to be a waxing specialist.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:28 PM
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I don't think there's anywhere like it in the Sierra

It's taking too much work to find out the relative elevation changes, so I'm going to stop trying, but that makes sense. The big elevation drops in the Sierras tend to be on the eastern side, which is mostly too steep for skiing. (Mammoth excepted, but Mammoth is odd anyway.) The western side is more gradual and but you can only go so far before being taken below the normal snow level.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:30 PM
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Maybe I could be a cartoonist.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:41 PM
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Depending on what you mean by the work 'start' I certainly have known people who started in their late twenties and up. That is, if whether consider going skiing once as a kid as previous experience. I even know people who started in their mid twenties and became excellent skiers. In any case you do not need to be anywhere near an expert to have tons of fun. Lots of people hae a blast awkwardly making there way down blue runs. But yes, learning takes time and effort and all of these peoples starts involved a move to Switzerland.

As far as injuries go, it's certainly a risk, but in my extensive knowledge of anecdata, it's lower than among folks who play basketball or soccer.

I also don't know Aspen, but skiing is going to be skiing regardless. I've been to St. Moritz and Gstaad, and the scene there is pretty annoying, but I've enjoyed myself (though as alpine resorts go, the skiing at Gstaad is pretty mediocre). I've also enjoyed myself tagging along with fundy Christian student groups for discount ski trips that required politely dealing with folks trying to save my soul.

So I'd say try it, unless the cost is a serious issue. Which it could be - even with free travel and lodging you're looking at hundreds of dollars in tickets and rentals.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:42 PM
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This is certainly intriguing.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:43 PM
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Back to the driver's license part of the thread: I called the DMV once. From a payphone in the DMV office. I figured it would take less time than standing in the line. I figured correctly.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:43 PM
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Yes, the realistic kind, like Superman or Spider-Man. (Presumably not, say, the Jon Bogdanove run on Superman.)


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:44 PM
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252 to 248.

After reading through classified ads, I can see how job-searching would suck. Unfortunately I have no useful contacts outside of physics departments.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-09 11:48 PM
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Sifu--just t cheer you up. The national economy grew 3 to 4%, but Massachusetts's contracted 1%. We need Federal money to prop up our state government.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 5:14 AM
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My BF really likes Steamboat. He goes every other year or so. There's a conference there which meets from 7-10AM and reconvenes at 5:30PM, so you have the rest of the day to ski.

A doctor friend who does research said that he was at another one in Keystone that was equally obviously a ski trip.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 5:33 AM
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A lot of nice runs at ski places in the Sierras, the issue is more that the snow there is nicknamed "Sierra cement" for a reason. Snow in the Sierras is often fueled by marine air and quite moisture-laden having snow-to-liquid ratios as low as 5 or 6-to-1 ("typical" might be 10-1 and dry area like Utah get up to 15/20-1, a lot East Coast snows are also 5 or below). Not really that bad, you can almost always get an edge in (not always the case at Northeastern resorts), still a bit hard (and from personal experience if you fall on a steep slope and are wearing slippery outwear like nylon you can slide a long way ... fast). Squaw and Alpine Meadows at Tahoe are nice, but my favorite there is Kirkwood Meadows, a bit of a drive south and west, but generally less crowded for that. I'd add Taos in Teoland as a resort for teraz to shoot for.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 7:30 AM
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However, one man's not-so-great snow is another Megan's wet dream, This type of snow is known as "Sierra cement," and while it's not so great for snow sports, it is exactly the kind of snow we need to replenish our snowpack. And actually it is really not bad as it sets a massive persistent base which extends the ski season and sometimes there is a nice fluffy few inches of snow on top of it.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 7:56 AM
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There are other sports to enjoy in the mountains, even (or especially) in Switzerland.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 8:23 AM
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I learned to ski late (late twenties), I haven't done it much, and I'm really lousy, but I still love it. The "inevitable injury" thing can, I think, be largely avoided through cowardice -- I ski easy slopes in control (or mostly -- I just don't try things that are significantly over my head).


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 8:43 AM
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I just don't try things that are significantly over my head

Most people are looking for vertical drops greater than 6 or 7 feet, though.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 8:52 AM
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261 describes my approach as well. As with many things sports-related, I think part of having fun is getting over the notion that you have to be really good at what you are doing.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 9:04 AM
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263: "Just good enough to stay alive" is a pretty good motto for the amateur.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 9:07 AM
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I may be the only one here who can boast having skied in scenic Wisconsin.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 9:19 AM
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||

Isn't it time we had an abbreviation for "please Google" to go along with e.g., i.e., cf. and n.b.? I know everyone is supposed to understand that this is already understood, but if it could be internet-wide, I think it would save a lot of time and prevent needless kerfuffles. I'm leaning towards "g.g.", playing off "e.g.", but I'm open to suggestions.

||>


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 9:20 AM
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Anybody ever been to the Quebec resorts-- Le Massif or Mt. Tremblant?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 9:21 AM
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265: Fear not, Stanley. You are not alone. Wisconsin, Illinois, all the best resorts.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 9:27 AM
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266 to 263, that is.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 9:28 AM
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264: I think gg is too well known as "good game", maybe p.g.. (And speaking of GG and Wisconsin, the latter's eccentric county road lettering system induced me to snap this pic for my kids.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 9:55 AM
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I believe I've seen someone (Gary Farber? Maybe.) use GFE, standing for Google Exists, for that purpose.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 9:59 AM
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259

I learned to ski late (late twenties), I haven't done it much, and I'm really lousy, but I still love it. The "inevitable injury" thing can, I think, be largely avoided through cowardice -- I ski easy slopes in control (or mostly -- I just don't try things that are significantly over my head).

You still have to worry about maniacs running into you.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 10:16 AM
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264: Here you go.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 10:22 AM
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What does the F stand for?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 10:24 AM
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I always liked Heavenly better than Squaw, but that's early/mid-70s, and maybe some of the new terrain at Squaw would cause a change of heart. It'd have to be pretty good, though.

Dear friends of ours took it up in their mid-40s: he boarding, she skiing. Late 50s now, they're on the hill every week, no significant injuries. She's more of a blue cruiser, but he's liable to plunge off down some chute, or into a forest, at any moment.

Going to Aspen and not skiing strikes me as akin to going to Antigua and not going to the beach. Sure you can do some other things, but really now. (Lest that sound too judgmental, I was myself in Antigua earlier this year, and did not go into the water. No good reason for it, either. A stupid use of the only life I'm going to get).

I second adding Taos to the aspirational mix, although now that they've added boarding, the interesting demographics there may have reverted to mean.

I'm buying a pass to our local hill today (Snowbowl) but folks tell me that Discovery Basin is not to be missed. Hope to get over to Big Sky for a conference in January (CLE and ski, they call it -- not to be confused with the series of Saturday morning CLEs that precede Griz home games): it's a great sprawling hill. OK, when I was in college, we called it 'Pig Sty -- good enough for tourists' and skiied the chutes at Bridger, but, really, they've expanded quite a bit, and the snobbery was always unfair. Probably get up to Big Mountain (I'm not using the new name yet) a couple times, as usual even when we lived in DC. All in, it didn't cost anymore than going to Quebec or Vermont, and, as a general proposition, in MT we ski at lower altitude than Colorado and don't wait in line.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 10:33 AM
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273: I always liked Heavenly better than Squaw

I just never liked the layout, especially the bottom on the California side where you either came down on a stupid catwalk or the steep mogul-y runs as part of what we came to call "The Spectacle" each afternoon (or take the gondola, I guess)*. Otherwise really pretty nice, what I liked best about Heavenly was the views, the great lake and snowy surroundings in one direction, the brownish desert in the other; a spectacular illustration of orographic influence on weather and climate. Am really regretful that I never skiied anywhere in Montana.

*Was last there many years ago, so may have changed.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 10:46 AM
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264: two options. When someone asked Dan Savage what "GFE" stood for in the context of erotic services, he replied with "Google Fucking Exists". And there is also this awesome service.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 10:50 AM
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Taos added boarding? Wow. That's a huge change.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 11:06 AM
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258 Now that's a very good way of getting hurt, or even killed.


Posted by: terez kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 11:17 AM
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The "Don't Panic" sign at Taos.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 11:17 AM
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277: Tell that to my broken bones.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 11:28 AM
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I guess I'll be the first to mention Sun Valley. If you happen to be in Idaho, do stop by. It's pretty killer.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 12:13 PM
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281 -- I'm hoping to go down to Boise to get sworn into the ID bar in the next few months; and really hoping it corresponds w snow.

274 -- (a) Park in Nevada. (b) Yep, and the variance in snow conditions too. (c) It seems curable: drop me a line.

276 -- Yep.


Posted by: CCarp | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 2:41 PM
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One of the few upsides to being over 50 is the inability to understand or accept the word 'toolish.' I mean, people who wear hats?


Posted by: CC | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 2:47 PM
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I think it basically just means "jackass" in a less forgiving tone.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 2:54 PM
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I'm hoping to go down to Boise to get sworn into the ID bar in the next few months; and really hoping it corresponds w snow.

Be sure to check out this place.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 3:14 PM
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From that Taos link:

"We have a choice where to spend our ski dollars and one of the few advantages of Taos to counter a bad location and few cultural opportunities, etc. is the fact that boarders were not permitted on the mountain. Please reconsider and don't ruin this ski area."

Sometimes I really hate people.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 3:15 PM
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There is a popular place in the US named "Squaw," and it hasn't gone by the wayside by widespread consent? I guess it's no more horrible than the Washington Redskins.

286: I'm confused. Are you hating the people who want to snowboard there, or hating the people who are acting as if the snowboarders will ruin everything? Or just the general NM-bashing in the comment you quoted?


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 3:34 PM
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287: The team name "Redskins" condemns itself, on terms that even Fox News would have to concede (reducing people to the color of their skins, etc., etc.). "Squaw" is probably just a sound to most (non-Native American) people now, for good and for ill.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 3:41 PM
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288: Clarification: In my opinion, for ill.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 3:42 PM
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287.1: At least Phoenix recently renamed the Squaw Peak Expressway, although I believe they retained the name for the mountain itself.

287.2: Just the general NM-bashing.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-31-09 3:49 PM
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