My guess is that it's a combination of a lifetime root dissatisfaction with their previous incarnation that is now being redressed,
Yes there will be a huge self-selection bias towards this for those who even dabble at all in adult conversion/re-dedication for religions much less go those who go the whole way. Not sure that model works so well for the yoga friend.
Not sure that model works so well for the yoga friend
He'll most likely join the Caliban, unfortunately.
The phrase that I have heard is, "the zeal of a convert.". Which I presume is proverbial for all of the reasons that you describe.
I also think a lot of the zeal of the newly converted has to do with it feeling like making a personal choice that is very constitutive of one's identity as an autonomous being.
For example, when someone reaches an age where they start really picking their own music to listen to, as opposed to just hearing what their parents play or what is on in the car, mall, etc., for many it feels like a really important choice that defines who they are and what group(s) they belong and don't belong to. Many also feel the urge to evangelize about their own particular musical tastes. Most people seem to get past this at some point. Music may still be very important to them, but choices of music aren't something that defines them in such a strong sense (although you do still run into 40 year old very commited metalheads, goths, punks, etc.)
Similarly, choosing to be born again, or to start resisting patriarchy, or to stop eating meat, feel like very powerful acts of self-definition and a claiming of autonomy. You're throwing off aspects of what you grew up with and making a conscious decision to now be a different type of person.
The zeal of the convert. I have a relative who took up his inherited but previously ignored Judaism in middle age and is remarkably intense about it, to the bemusement of his grew-up-with-it wife. I wonder if the people who take him most seriously on it are other converts or latecomers.
The zeal of the convert meets the squeal of the pwned.
I also think about how immigrants can sometimes be more committed to formal rules of ettiquite as they have learned them -- if you don't grow up in a culture it can be more difficult to tell which rules are serious and which one people inevitably let slide.
re: 7
Yes, also with language, with the formality of second language speakers which is a very similar phenomenon.
Having dabbled in late-adolescent conversion back in the day, I have a bit of a theory of my own on this. To convert is to fall in love. (That's a metaphor, not an analogy, so not covered by the analogy ban.) Falling in love is almost inevitably accompanied by a period of intense infatuation, of being utterly consumed by thoughts of and devotion to the beloved, which in the best cases softens to something less intense, more controlled, a warm glow rather than a raging inferno of passion. Perhaps as you grow older, there is a fear that the fire will fade and that it's too late to start any new fires and so there is a deparation to throw ever more fuel onto the embers, to keep the fire alive. Add to that the idea that the greater one's doubts, and the greater the discomfort with the possibility of (admitting to) being wrong, the greater the need to ratchet up the outward signs of devotion.
This reminds me of a guy I knew that was from a very strict Orthodox Jewish family. He fell in love with a Christian girl (shiksa is the technical term) and they wanted to get married, and of course his family went crazy. His girlfriend/fiancee agreed to go through the ardous Orthodox conversion process, and his family calmed down.
I lost touch with him for a while then, and ran into him a year or two later. I asked about his fiancee, assuming they must be married by now. He replied,"Eh, I broke up with her. She was too religious for me."
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Can't tell if I'm overreacting or not, but I just shut down my relationship with my dentist after I missed an appointment and her office manager informed me that they were going to charge me for the missed visit. Not because of the 80 bucks, but because they called my wife to track me down when they didn't reach me. (Mrs. Chopper has been seeing this dentist for 12 years, I only started like 5 years ago.)
Am I overreacting, or do I have a right to be pissed for feeling like they're treating me like a child whose parent/wife needs to give me a good talking to?
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11: Well, it seems that calling your wife to let you know you're about to miss an appointment could be considered a courtesy.
11: I can see, from their end, it being SOP to try to use any number available to reach a client, particularly since it's an issue involving money. I wouldn't be surprised if they've gotten flack for not doing so in a similar situation. They may even have her number written on your chart as an alternate number to reach you at?
they're treating me like a child whose parent/wife needs to give me a good talking to
I just don't see this as the only, or even the most obvious, explanation for them calling your wife. Of course, you know all the details, so that may be an accurate read. But just going on what you've told us, I doubt they wanted to get you in trouble, they just wanted to make sure they'd done reasonable due diligence before they charged you $80.
11: You wanted to break up with the dentist in the first place. That's why you missed the appointment. You're just looking for an excuse so that you can blame the dentist rather than confront your own lack of commitment to good oral hygiene.
Di just recently converted to Good Oral Hygiene and brushes, flosses, and uses mouthwash at least three times a day.
I recommitted to dental care in my 40s after being ho-hum about it earlier in life, so I am very zealous on my relationship with my dentist (actually my dental hygienist).
M/tch is a j/rk. And mine is actually pretty much true (and my devotion to Stim-U-Dents is fervent).
15: That's actually kinda true. (More that they seem overly enthusiastic about scheduling cleanings (they want to do it every 4 months, even though our insurance only covers 2 cleanings per patient annually), replacing old lead fillings with those new polymer white fillings, selling electric toothbrushes, etc., and referring to the Dentist's husbands oral surgery practice for wisdom teeth, etc.) Just feels like I'm constantly being upsold.
12/13: Does it help if they know that Mrs. Chopper is at work, I'm unemployed, and that both of us only have cell phones--i.e. they have the same number as Mrs. Chopper?
20: Now those sound like good reasons to quit your dentist.
Just feels like I'm constantly being upsold.
I've definitely switched dentists because of this. It irritated the hell out of me.
Just feels like I'm constantly being upsold.
Have they tried to get you to do teeth whitening yet? I really like my dentist, so when he suggested that, I was pretty annoyed. I still go there though, because I figure they're probably all in that business now. No use going to someone new who is also going to try to sell me whitening procedures.
Just feels like I'm constantly being upsold.
Sadly, I haven't been to the dentist for a year or more over this -- mine annoyed me so much that I stopped going, and then I haven't got around to finding another.
20: So it's more like a mouthcare cult, then. It's okay to leave. We are here to support you.
(Seriously. That kind of pressure sounds obnoxious and uncomfortable. I'd ditch them, too.)
21: They may have that information recorded somewhere, but do they actively "know" it? Those are two very different things.
Does everyone know that my (ex-)OB did this, with a lobby full of posters about tummy tucks and lipo, and pamphelets about vaginal rejuvenation? I was disgusted.
The examination rooms each had TVs that would run infomercials about lipo when not showing you your little kicking fetus. Graphic infomercials, too, with tubes sucking out fat and people mid-operation.
I used to walk in and turn the TV off immediately, and after a while the techs all knew that if it was me, they'd have to turn the TV back on to do the ultrasound. (He was also ultrasound-happy.)
Now we have a new family GP who also does OBGYN stuff and we love her very much.
Specifically, he wanted to sell me not just teethwhitening, but to grind off jagged edges on the lower edge of my front teeth, and braces. Given that my teeth aren't, in fact, obtrusively yellow, serrated, or crooked, I was cranky about the sales pitch every goddamn time I got my teeth cleaned.
replacing old lead fillings with those new polymer white fillings
This, however, is worth the money. The metal-amalgam ones actually weaken your teeth over time.
Oh crap, they've gotten to apo too!
pamphelets about vaginal rejuvenation? I was disgusted.
"According to a new study, seventy-three percent of women are ashamed of their own vaginas. And from what I've seen, they should be." -Tina Fey
Don't you want your vagina to be born again, heebie? Washed in the blood of the lamb, so to speak?
33: You could at least get it replaced with one of the white ones.
re: 30
Yeah, I had a tooth completely disintegrate last year when a filling came apart.
My fur-burger is a happy special snowflake just the way it is.
I had a Chopper-esque moment of healthcare outrage this morning, eventually tempered. I tried to get in to my PCP during their walk-in hours for a non-emergency but somewhat concerning issue, but they were too busy for any more walk-ins. I guess I'll make an appointment after all.
I got over it by reminding myself that anyone who says "OMG THEY'RE GOING TO RATION HEALTHCARE" is an idiot. Already happening, stupidface.
Is there any reason to be suspicious of the urgent care clinic model of non-ER-caliber health care? On the face of it, it sounds like a good way to triage by severity and save costs, and save the ER for more intense stuff.
OT: Has anybody noticed that a huge number of the albums at allmusic.com no longer have reviews?
I need to recommit to dental care, myself. I'll feel free to ignore a dentist who recommends a cleaning every four months, but it's now been more than a year. No problems that I've noticed, but I'm sure the next person who pokes around in there will act horrified. If I continue to forget or procrastinate on making the appointment through today and tomorrow*, Wednesday morning is both an ideal time to make the call** and the drop-dead-last deadline, because I want to be able to tell my parents that I have an appointment, because I know it'll come up over Thanksgiving.
* Well, who wants to set an appointment from work with people around and stuff? More to the point, I also need to make a doctor's appointment, which will be easier than a dentist's appointment other than the fact that it will require talking about a strange rash.
** Hmm. Assuming the offices are open the day before Thanksgiving, even in the morning. Oh well, if I wind up leaving a message on their voice mail that's better than nothing.
39: I think the only problem is the continuity issue -- ideally, you want the same provider to have a complete history of all the little bullshit stuff you come into the doctor's office for over the years. Other than that, I can't think of a problem.
21: They may have that information recorded somewhere, but do they actively "know" it? Those are two very different things.
And indeed, for all they know, Mrs. Chopper might know that you are in some particular place where you can be reached by phone, or you might be standing right next to her.
42: But the Urgent Care is no different than the ER in that respect. Trust me.
30: All well and good, but these fillings weren't all that old--it seemed overly agressive to preemptively remove them, which is kinda what I felt like I was doing (and insurance didn't cover the difference in price, so I spent hundreds of extra dollars over the years).
42: That's what I was thinking, but if we good online records with our complete history, most doctors should be able to spot patterns enough to at least send you to a specialist, and making the continuity thing obsolet, (unless you have a condition that needs longterm monitering.)
44: Oh, true. I was thinking of urgent care as opposed to waiting to make an appointment with the doctor. (Aren't most doctor's appointments other than checkups going to be at least semi-urgent? You're sick, or in pain, or something? I always feel vaguely improper asking if we can come in today, as if I should have planned ahead for the kid to have a weird-looking rash.)
37
I tried to get in to my PCP during their walk-in hours for a non-emergency but somewhat concerning issue, but they were too busy for any more walk-ins. I guess I'll make an appointment after all.
No offense, but I don't even see a problem here. Walk-in health care for non-emergency issues is the exception to the rule, right? I know that's the impression I got about a clinic that was starting to offer it a few years ago, but maybe they meant something different from you or maybe standards have changed since then. But if I'm right, then having any kind of walk-in service available at all is, relatively speaking, a gift horse and therefore not to be looked in the mouth. I guess it would be annoying if you hoped to get whatever-it-is taken care of in 10 minutes before work but you couldn't and were late for work anyway, but that seems unrealistically convenient.
46: Heebie is clearly a recent convert to Digital Medical Records.
The Unfoggedetariat is not being very indulgent to complainers today.
48: Sort of true. But there are non-emergency conditions that benefit tremendously from prompt treatment. Like when I got the damned shingles. from everything I read on the internet, the fact that I managed to get in and get an antiviral drug within 24 hours of the outbreak made a significant difference in the duration and severity of the illness. And like LB said, that's not the kind of appointment you can book a month in advance.
48: No offense, but I don't even see a problem here.
No offense taken. I realized I was feeling a bit childish about my reaction. It was something that came up over the weekend (little bit of wrist pain following an auto accident), and I was prompted to go see the doctor by my mom, on a sort of "hey, better to get that insurance ball rolling now, if it's going to need to roll" sort of logic.
I've had 100% success getting in to see someone during their walk-in hours, so it was a bit of a surprise. But it's a Monday (busy) and flu season, so I'll just make an appointment later this week.
I always feel vaguely improper asking if we can come in today, as if I should have planned ahead for the kid to have a weird-looking rash
But if they see your kid right away, then they'll spend time diagnosing it and maybe in the interest of caution prescribe an ointment etc. On the other if they make you wait a week, the rash will probably go away on its own and you'll call in a few days to cancel the appointment.
I wonder if there are any studies on whether it may be more efficient and effective overall to force people to wait longer for appointments.
53: And yet, it's generally easier to identify what type of rash you are dealing with if you have a doctor look at it.
OT: Has anybody noticed that a huge number of the albums at allmusic.com no longer have reviews?
I've been wondering about that.
Has anyone seen Chopper? He hasn't shown up for his appointment yet and we're going to have to charge him $80.
54: Yes, but what are the chances that it actually matters whether the rash is diagnosed today or next week or two weeks from today? Probably extremely slight.
Now, of course, a parent is going to be worried and want to have their child looked at right away -- but I'm not sure that a system set up to allow that, would have better results than one that made people wait.
I'm looking for Chopper too. He owes me two dollars.
Geez, peep, join the Republican Party already why don't you?
60: But I'm supporting rationing healhtcare!
Mrs. Chopper has been seeing this dentist for 12 years, I only started like 5 years ago.
I think you'd be more enthusiastic about the dentist as the more recent convert.
On the original topic- You have to be pretty dedicated to get circumcised as an adult.
Yes, but what are the chances that it actually matters whether the rash is diagnosed today or next week or two weeks from today? Probably extremely slight.
See, I have no idea what the correct answer to that is. Which is why I would call the doctor to find out. I'm fortunate that I'm friends with our pediatrician, so I never bother panicking about Rory; I just call the doc or his wife and ask whether or not I should panic. His answer is invariably, "No." He also got mad at me for bringing Rory to the Urgent Care once instead of calling him at home on a holiday.
Short of Ponytopia or some kind of Randian deus ex perpetual-motion-machina, there's no such thing as unrationed healthcare. Or healhtcare for that matter.
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Do you know where they have wi-fi these days? At the tire repair place, that's where.
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65: Gotta love Walker Tire!
(Also: thanks!)
(Sir Kraab and I have recently converted to the Church of Commentspambot)
65-6: Ah, re-vulcanizing the pneumatics? Excellent.
62: I know someone who did that, but not as a convert - just aesthetic reasons and a desire to "improve staying power" (his words).
40:Like what, apo. Which albums or genres have lost reviews?
I spend an awful lot of time at AMG and I haven't noticed any changes.
62: My bestest friend married a dude who converted to uber-Orthodox chasid (he was raised Catholic in Germany) who got the schnitt as a 30yo.
I spend an awful lot of time at AMG and I haven't noticed any changes.
I don't know if it lost a review, but there isn't a review for Bruce Springsteen's debut album, nor for A Night At The Opera (I was just writing a post yesterday).
"improve staying power" (his words)
"Oh, sure, I came, but I sure as shit wasn't going to stay."
69
62: I know someone who did that, but not as a convert - just aesthetic reasons and a desire to "improve staying power" (his words).
Huh. Weird. I think I would have expected the reverse.
I'm 99.999% certain that this must have been discussed previously ATM.
Like what, apo. Which albums or genres have lost reviews?
All over the place, bob. For example, only one Public Enemy album has a review now, and it's one of the throwaway ones. No Radiohead or Arcade Fire albums have reviews any more. None of the Beatles albums after 1965. It's weird.
Now we have a new family GP who also does OBGYN stuff and we love her very much.
It's all about the GPs. I think that AB knows that if she ever dies, I'm going to move in with our doctor; I assume she feels the same way (AB, not the doctor).
Your old OB sounds horrible.
74: You're hacking off a bunch of richly innervated tissue. Not surprising that it reduces sensation and so delays orgasm.
Wow, this AMG thing is weirding me out. I haven't been there in months, but it's reasonably common for me to go in and basically read the reviews of an artist's complete discography (often someone familiar, like Paul Simon, when I realize that I only have a hazy notion of what happened between Garfunkel and Ladysmith Black Mambozo). WTF, AMG?
79: I blame Global Warming Deniers.
Every time I see my dentist (who bought out my previous dentist's practice and acquired all the patients) he tries to convince me to have my wisdom teeth out. They're not bothering me, and he prefaces it each time saying that if you ask 10 dentists, 5 would say yes and 5 will say no, so I've got to think that not having surgery is better.
81: I have mine, too. My wonderful, beloved Chicago dentist told me to keep them, and cut away (really, burned away) a bit of the gum that was occluding them.
My dentist recently replaced one of my fillings, but I got them when I was less than 12, and one of my teeth crumbled a couple years ago, so. I was told long ago that I'd need to have my wisdom teeth out, but so far they're fine, so. I think I'd be better off with them gone*, but not enough to actually have them removed.
* In fact, just a week or two ago, I got pretty bad inflammation - maybe a mild infection? - from something that was caught in them for just a few hours - it was way back there, and I couldn't get to it right away.
81, 82: I only have one, but I have kept it thus far. My (beloved, Chicago) dentist told me the only real problem with it is that a wisdom tooth is harder to effectively clen because it's so far back there, so more prone to cavities. If that ever becomes an issue, we can think about pulling it. He's not at all conveniently located for me, but the last time I saw a convenient dentist, he "found" four cavities that "needed" to be drilled and filled. The beloved Chicago dentist said something charitably professional about different opinions and, no, did not think there were cavities that needed filling. I am really overdue for a check up, though.
He's not at all conveniently located for me, but the last time I saw a convenient dentist, he "found" four cavities that "needed" to be drilled and filled. The beloved Chicago dentist said something charitably professional about different opinions and, no, did not think there were cavities that needed filling.
This sort of thing would be another reason why I left my previous dentist.
83*: I had this when the tooth was just coming in. I found soaking a cotton ball with scotch and sticking that up against the tooth/gum helped both numb the pain and clear up the apparent infection. Gargling with peroxide also helped, but tasted a bit nastier.
Ok, you are right. There are reviews missing.
1) Technical database issues?
2) Conflicts (money) with staff writers? Tho I would presume AMG would have had the copyrights
That AMG thing is freaking me out. The review for the first album I checked is gone too.
Sounds like we all need to go to Chicago for our dental care.
soaking a cotton ball with scotch and sticking that up against the tooth/gum
Will it work with bourbon? I guess I'll just have to find out!
Although, honestly, with the amount of bourbon I drink, you'd think my mouth would be antiseptic enough for surgery.
I sure hope it's a technical issue. I've really come to rely on them. I sent an email to their technical department asking what had happened.
83: This was the only problem mine ever gave me, but then I had an "operculectomy" (Beloved Dentist burned away the little flaps of gum that half covered them) and now they don't even do that.
87.1 was my guess, but why wouldn't there be a note on the front page?
Any idea how long this has been going on?
now they don't even do that.
Huh?
I think my dentist did this for me ~2 years ago, but I wouldn't swear to it.
My first suspicion was that they are in the process of putting the reviews behind a subscriber wall, with just the track info and credits available to everybody.
94: Sorry, poorly written. In my sentence they=my wisdom teeth and "do that" = give me that problem.
What is this allmusic.com, and who are all these kids on my lawn?
97:All Music
Outrageously comprehensive and professional. Only pros write reviews.
95:They just eliminated their login. And the ads have recently become a little more aggressive. I thought they were doing very well.
Wikipedia says there is a more commercial database available for fee, but I had thought that meant technical: publishing and distribution (sales) information.
But 95 could be the case.
Many of the reviews had been in place for 10-15 years and I consider them to be classics of music writing. Some were very long for an album review.
I have a suspicion (voiced by other patients I know) that my dentist intentionally delays treatment of minor problems until they will be serious enough that he can bill the insurance a significant amount. I started going there because I used to work in the same building, and the hygienists he gets are always really amazingly gifted and not-pain-inducing. But he's pretty stereotypical, his hours are weird (no appts after 2:30?!?) and there is the upselling and constant admonishments to get a SonicCare or whatever. Dab hand with the drill though. I needed an emergency root canal once though, and I was in-and-out in 30 minutes. So, you know, dentists. Where would community theater productions of classic musicals be without them?
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This must be about my fourth or fifth case this year of crud bad enough to keep me home from work. I am not amused.
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Re:AMG
Exploring a little deeper, I see what might be some other database and cross-reference anomalies. Not completely sure, working off memory. But could be a database (disk) failure.
On the OP:
4: Similarly, choosing to be born again, or to start resisting patriarchy, or to stop eating meat, feel like very powerful acts of self-definition and a claiming of autonomy. You're throwing off aspects of what you grew up with and making a conscious decision to now be a different type of person.
This, and what Heebie says in her final paragraph of the OP, sound right, but something doesn't sit quite right, and I've had trouble putting my finger on it.
It may be this: Analogizing these kinds of adult conversions to one another seems problematic. We know why conversion to jihadism (or Wahhabism) is under scrutiny -- and the ObWi post is concerned solely with that conversion.
I seem to want to say, though, that there's not just a difference of degree, but a difference in kind, between that and 'conversion' to vegetarianism or feminism. I'd rather keep these things in separate corners. My own shift to vegetarianism, for example, wasn't accompanied by any proselytizing, and was gradual: it just made sense. There was no fanfare.
Here may be the crux of the biscuit: I find religious conversion to be in a category of its own, and resist considering these other conversions to be varieties of the same. I'd want to hear from those who've experienced religious conversions. So far I think Di has spoken personally about that, up in comment 9, and she likened it to falling in love. (In contrast, my feminism and vegetarianism didn't, and don't, feel anything like that.)
Not sure where to go from there. I'm somewhat resolutely not talking about authenticity, as fascinating as that topic is.
I'm somewhat resolutely not talking about authenticity, as fascinating as that topic is.
That topic is one-flight up now, anyway.
I also don't think all religious conversions are of the wack-a-doodle fanatical variety. (My teen-angst version certainly was, but I have a delightfully nuanced, mature understanding of the sort of underlying psychological factors that contributed to that. Which, come to think of it, might be sort of enlightening to the issue were I not personally at least somewhat inclined to carrying various -- okay, somewhat inane -- secrets with me to the grave. Short version: when religious conversion is filling a profound emotional or psychological need, it's bound to get more fanatical because dear God if you lose that you're back in the wreck of a mess you were using it to escape from.)
My own shift to vegetarianism, for example, wasn't accompanied by any proselytizing, and was gradual: it just made sense. There was no fanfare.
The same is true of some people's conversion to religion or to a new religion. Not everyone who converts has the zeal of the convert.
I think the difference is whether or not you had to reject part of your previous identity. If I stopped eating meat tomorrow, it would not be a particular ideological shift. But becoming a feminist meant rejecting a lot of camraderie that I'd previously enjoyed.
Of course, there are differences between converting to a religion and becoming a vegetarian or feminist or Phish phan. That doesn't mean there aren't similarities too. Also, there are all manner of degrees of conversion. Just as very few people who convert to Islam actually become jihadis, very few people who become vegetarians join ALF and start torching laboratories.
108: Right. Maybe we'd want to say, then, that choosing to be born again, or to start resisting patriarchy, or to stop eating meat, *may sometimes* feel like very powerful acts of self-definition and a claiming of autonomy.
So there may not be very much explanatory power in pointing to the choosing, as an adult, of these paths. Some thing, or things, more are needed in order to explain fanaticism.
106 Most definitely aren't, but I knew a couple cases in college of conversions to feminism which fit the description. These were I-have-seen-the-light affairs. They also fit the term 'sophomoric' perfectly, both literally and figuratively. The need to reconcile the 'all sex with men is rape' and nineteen year old desire to get laid was rather amusing. I haven't personally known vegetarians like that, but Foer's loud conversion seems like it might be.
my dentist intentionally delays treatment of minor problems until they will be serious enough that he can bill the insurance a significant amount.
That sounds like a dictionary definition of malpractice.
114: Well yeah, but how am I going to check? I'd have to go to another dentist, with mean, Nurse Ratched-like hygienists, and get a second opinion, and that would require a lot of hassle. Plus, they would probably just cover for him: "Oh, some people might fill that now, but you could argue that it would damage the enamel more than waiting. How often do you floss?"
"How often do you floss?"
That's how they get you every time.
116: I love/hate that my wife and kids are very diligent flossers. I have never been able to do it regularly. But that's why I sing the praises of the Stim-U-Dent thingies--not quite the same--but still something I find I will actually use, unlike the guiltifying little floss containers sitting on every work surface and end table in my house. And I get gold stars* from the hygienist!
*Well, relative ones compared to how effed up my mouth was 15 years ago.
117: I have a little crush on a guy who developed an addition to those things when he quit smoking. He looks like a huge dork with one dangling from his lips half the day. But then, there's something to be said for a guy with an oral fixation.
But then, there's something to be said for a guy with an oral fixation.
Don't you think you would be better off if you said said something to him instead of for him?
developed an addition to those things
Did he patent it?
I have a little crush on a guy who developed an addition to those things
You know what they say, big Stim-U-Dents, good gums.
118: And it's better than him running around with floss hanging out of his mouth.
I have oral *and* manual fixations. Not necessarily that great as I combine the tooth thingy fixation with my current hand sanitizer fixation.
The same is true of some people's conversion to religion or to a new religion. Not everyone who converts has the zeal of the convert.
One could say that there are a variety of religious experiences.
This is why established religion esp. church of england is supported, i thought.
i always wondered why AMG didn't try to monetise itself.
The ultimate way to indulge an oral fixation: tongue piercing. 10+ years after taking mine out, I still miss it.