So they kinda got that wrong, huh.
I just came across that article today. It made me feel pissy too, but I'm not really sure why.
Does the magazine not allow for comments? Because this post should be in the comments. Also, "for starters" is lame, especially following two ill-chosen examples. If you've got other noteworthy names, writer, cough 'em up.
I'm in the deepest Midwest and am reverting to type. I wonder why the NYT isn't discussing the inventor of Kool Aid or the Reuben. One day us wholesome types will rise-up and make food bland again.
Help me decide what kind of pie to make, nerds.
For Thanksgiving? Pumpkin. Ask a real question.
What do you have to make it with, Bear?
Speaking of nerds and square pie, my Calc professor was such a nerd that he told the joke with the punchline "Pie are round. Cornbread are squared." In my experience, the best teachers only know really old jokes.
7: Like pie shit. Y'know.
I can do my nice apple with bourbon caramel. I can do a good fresh pumpkin (though I've only really eaten pumpkin pie the one time I made it so I don't know from pumpkin). I could do a southern favorite like pecan or chocolate. Custard was standard at our Tdays. I just don't know.
Mmm, pie shit pie. A holiday favorite!
Can I change my vote to apple with bourbon caramel?
That means I have to buy bourbon. But that's not a bad thing.
Make all five and send them to me. They won't go unappreciated, I'll promise you that.
15: It means you have to buy bourbon and not drink it all on the way home from the store. Which may or may not be a bad thing, depending on the size of the bottle and the length of your drive home.
It's a three-minute walk, so I think I'm good.
18: I keep forgetting how easy it can be to buy booze if you live in a state that cares about its residents.
It's also the Park Slope factor. I could walk to about ten different wine/liquor stores in five minutes. I was having Chinese food with Dave last night and saying, "Well, I used to go here, but then I went to [second place] for a while, but then their chef changed and I went to [third], had a brief dalliance with [fourth] and even [fifth], but now I come here again." All casual-dining-type Chinese, all within about six short blocks of my door. I can never leave.
That describes our neighborhood fairly well, but we aren't in Park Slope. Also, our neighborhood breeds food whatever-it-was-es. FOR EXAMPLE: one Ms. Julia Child!
Cooking-related annoyances. I just read Gopnik's piece on cookbooks and am hungry again irked. I was not moved by stuff like "Between the rule and the meal falls the ritual".
You should make a quince & frangipane tart.
Walnut pie. Shaker lemon pie. Pear pie. Cranberry pie. Pear-cranberry pie. Shoo fly pie.
I can never leave.
I can afford a house and one kid in private school on a university staff salary. Keep your selection of food.
Mince meat. Without meat. (I love the spices.)
Nosflow has it right, of course.
"Frangipane" doesn't exist.
Maybe not in your deprived household.
I haven't read the cookbook piece, but Gopnik bothers me. I often get a sense that he doesn't really know what he's talking about as well as he ought to, to write about it as he does.
I find Gopnik skimmable, but not something I want to sit with and savor. Even that cookbook thing, yeah man, I get what you're going for here.
Overall the piece struck me as mournfully nostalgic for a seemingly-lost authenticity. Ugh. The diversion into how sad it would be to learn to throw a baseball from a book called "How to Play Catch" was typical.
Just wait till you learn to make love, young nosflow, FROM A BOOK.
Better than never learning at all, I suppose.
You just wait till you learn to make love in your backyard wearing a cap and a leather glove.
I don't think it would be very sad. Gopnik mourns the loss of fathers teaching sons. OK, (sometimes) that is a nicer experience than learning from a book. But at least you could ball.
Beats learning to make love from Adam Gopnik.
I dunno. My own dad was pretty harsh about it. I'm glad I can play ball, but it took me a few summers before I stopped hearing a sarcastic "WHAT, DID THE BALL HIT YOU IN THE GLOVE?" in my head every time I dropped it.
Shouldn't a nostalgic francophile like Gopnik be mourning the old bourgeois tradition of taking your (male) kid to a brothel to lose his virginity?
41. Yeah, I had similar experiences. That's why I put sometimes in 38. (I don't know why I failed to type "throw a" in the last sentence.)
Gopnik writes in an elevated style that allows him to give the impression of depth by leaving out all prompts that would lead to reflection, as the result of that reflection would be a sense of shallowness and emptiness. He's a local color writer dressed up as a cosmopolitan, the locality being wherever he is or has been.
I think I got carried away there.
I have fond memories of that ritual. Didn't learn anything but it was rather sweet that my immigrant dad decided to do it as part of the duty of being a father to an American kid.
I learned how to throw a ball from Anna Karenina.
47: I learned how to manage a pawn shop from Crime and Punishment. Step 1: Keep the poor people a good bit away.
44.1 is great. You can't overdo the whole ragging-on-a-new-yorker-writer thing. It's called "fact checking".
That's upper middlebrow, the real sophisticates take their cue from Visconti.
47 to 46. Probably caused by karma for mocking 38.
I was going to criticize him for making sure to slip in anecdotes that involve him having gone to elite schools, or, later in life, interacting in the most natural fashion with elite people in elite settings, but really that's just the house style over there.
MH, your mock was funny.
I learned about housekeeping from The Story of O.
interacting in the most natural fashion
You know what's a good book? Remainder.
51: Was he in CTY? What camps did he attend?
Crap. The entire issue (Food is the theme) is pissing me off with what eb described. Time for bed.
23, 28, 30:
Huh. I always thought that a "frangipani" tart was a reference to the way that the slices of fruit were arranged to resemble a frangipani flower. Apparently, the almond paste that they're actually named for has nothing to do with that, except that they're both named for some Italian noble family.
I learned how to throw a ball while reading Anna Karenina in CTY.
There's a scene early in Anna Karenina, which is about as far as the audiobook read to me, where Levin remarks on the smoothness of one of the characters' hands. And why were those hands so smooth? The elite baseball gloves of the aristocracy.
I just came across that article today. It made me feel pissy too, but I'm not really sure why.
Maybe because the people in it are so insufferable?
56: Next you'll be telling me that capuchin monkeys weren't named for their love of cappuccino.
The apples are really good. I have bought many an apple from that farm. Also quinces.
You've got a lot of hate in you, you know that, teo? You oughta mellow out.
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You know, if you are trying to sell me an mp3 of Bess, You Is My Woman Now and you are only going to let me listen to a minute of the song, you should really choose a minute in which I can hear both Porgy and Bess. I'm not going to spend a whole dollar on a song if I don't even know what Bess sounds like.
I'm pretty curious about the references to a Harry Belafonte version of Porgy and Bess. Haven't found a way to listen to it yet.
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64: I'm working on it. My latest strategy is to just ignore things that anger me. It's been moderately successful so far.
Less successful: my attempts to get to bed at a reasonable time.
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Paul Krugman just referred to himself as a DFH in his blog.
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He's used the term before, but without the explicit self-identification.
Also, our neighborhood breeds food whatever-it-was-es. FOR EXAMPLE: one Ms. Julia Child!
Who was born in California.
Maybe Sifu was just doing a good parody of the Times magazine when he misattributed her start to Cambridge, MA.
Sure, let's say that's what happened.
Wasn't France her formative pioneer breeding ground anyhow?
Pumpkin is clearly the correct answer to the pie question. Now who will set me up with a good recipe?
A lady of the Frangipani family was an early supporter of Francis of Assisi. From, as I recall, "frangere panem," supposedly.
A lady of the Frangipani family was an early supporter of Francis of Assisi. From, as I recall, "frangere panem," supposedly.
73: Probably China, where she served during WWII and met her husband.
"As American as apple pie" is a stupid phrase. Apple pie is from Europe. Pumpkin pie is American. On the other hand, claiming other people's achievements for ourselves is quintessentially American, so maybe the phrase is fine as is.
74: I dunno, but crushed pumpkin-seed brittle in the crust is awesome.
American apple pie is very different from, say, a French apple tart--particularly the cinnamon part. I don't remember what the British use.
I used to see Julia Child in her yard in Cambridge near the Divinity School. Very tall woman, nothing Ehpronesque about her physical presence.
I don't remember what the British use.
Bramleys. You can't get them anywhere else.
I don't remember what the British use.
Bramleys. You can't get them anywhere else.
Very tall woman, nothing Ehpronesque about her physical presence.
Ehpronesque: in the manner of ehpron.
Ehpron: indecent or titillating material, generally distributed online, produced in or featuring Canada. (see also Ehporn)
According to legend, one water-shy U. of C. student prepared for that univerity's swim test by studying a book on swimming. On the day of, he jumped in and was immediately ravished by Adam Gopnik.
85: I'm on my iPhone, spelling enthusiast.
And British people do sometimes use cinnamon in apple-based pastry-encased-pudding-foodstuffs.
Bramleys are great, btw.
Pumpkin is clearly the correct answer to the pie question.
Pumpkin is never the correct answer to any question. (Except "what is the most repellent of all the squashes?")
89: What does Chris Matthews' head resemble?
I get Bramleys at the farmer's market here. They're great if you like tart apples, which I do.
Chopper (and/or anyone else with relevant opinions): do you have a particular barbecue sauce recipe or spin on the classic molasses/vinegar/tomato recipe that you would recommend, particularly for turkey legs? Just curious as to whether there's anything jazzier I should be trying on my turkey legs this weekend and thought of you.
No pause/play since this is a food thread, etc.
The coming of Chris Mathews' head is also one of the seven signs that we are in the prophesied Stupid Times.
re: 91
They aren't tart when cooked, though. That's the reason they are prized -- that and the texture/flavour they retain when stewed or baked.
Hey, meal prep means I had to take a pass on the last 140 comments of the Trunk thread. Did I miss any future running jokes/embarrassing revelations? Maybe Sifu could offer one of his patented one sentence distillations.
95.last: I'm not Sifu, my name is Julie but "People write stuff on facebook."
Julia Child and Irma Rombauer and Isabella Beeton all had a vital *two-stage* upbringing: they learned how to cook, or even why you would want to, late in life, and therefore wrote cookbooks for people who didn't know how to cook already (a growing market).
So I suppose this is the zealotry-of-adult-conversion topic again.
92: This may go further astray than you want, but I've been using a sauce/marinade of lime juice, molasses, soy, garlic and ginger, which could be thickened to the consistency of barbecue sauce with, say, hoisin sauce.
Since this is the food thread, perhaps you can help my with my thanksgiving food anxiety.*
My dish this year is vegetables and Tzatziki sauce as an appetizer. I was making the sauce yesterday, all of the ingredients were very tasty, I doubled the amount of garlic (because I am me) and it smelled delicious.
Tasting it, however, I thought it was just a little bit on the harsh side -- with the yogurt, lemon juice, and garlic all tasty, but all with some bite.
Because I have a tendency to improvise when cooking for thanksgiving, I was inspired by a bit of advice that I'd seen which is that you can sometimes bring out the flavors by adding a little bit of sugar -- you don't want it to taste sweet, but just a subtle note of sweetness can help the flavor. I added just over 1/2t (for 4 cups) of sauce, and immediately worried that I'd added too much.
Tasting it I would say that I clearly haven't ruined anything, but that was probably twice as much as I should have added. The sauce isn't overly sweet at all, but there's a definite sweet note when you first taste it -- which gives way to a pretty clean yogurt/garlic/olive oil aftertaste.
Should I worry? Should I leave it as it is and figure it's going to taste good, albeit slightly non-traditional? Should I add another cup of yogurt to dilute the sweetness? Should I add fresh mint or dill (which I didn't use originally because the ones in the store don't look very good right now) to add another forward note in the flavor?
* To explain: I end up getting anxious about whatever I'm making for thanksgiving because I get anxious about any large social gathering (even though I like my family) and transfer that anxiety to my cooking.
OFE, I wasn't clear, but I meant what seasonings and spices do the British use?
"People write stuff on facebook."
I have one friend who, as far as I can tell, uses Facebook for exactly one and only one purpose: to post two or three lines of "classic" rock lyrics as a status update. Five or six times a day. Every day. And I can't quite figure out what the point is. "Oh, you've heard The Beatles too, have you?"
99: First, invite me over for dinner... That Tzatziki sounds good and you are almost certainly overthinking it.
They aren't tart when cooked, though. That's the reason they are prized -- that and the texture/flavour they retain when stewed or baked.
I usually end up making them into sauce, and they're good for that, although that may not be the ideal use.
Come to think of it, I was just thinking about the idea of trying a fruit compote, I should remember that next year when the Bramleys are in season.
re: 100
Cinnamon, cloves, ginger, that sort of thing. Although often, I think, just apples and sugar with no spices, and cinnamon as the commonest spice when used.
Like this:
http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/2052/ultimate-apple-pie
re: 103
Yeah, apple sauce for pork, made from Bramleys is good.
you are almost certainly overthinking it.
Thanks, I suspected that was the case.
You're invited if you want to come. I'm not quite sure what this year will be like. Thanksgiving was my grandmother's holiday -- the one day when she insisted on having the entire extended family gather, and this will be the first year without her.
101.last: I get by with a little help from my friends.
to post two or three lines of "classic" rock lyrics
In my tired state this morning, I thought of this comment which remains on of the more impressive things I've seen on unfogged.
You could just post "bah bah bahbah bah bum" as an update.
90: What does Chris Matthews's head resemble?
NickS, add more cucumber? I'm sure it already tastes great, but you seem worried. More cucumber would increase the clean taste.
(I have flavor categories like warm, clean, green, acid, mostly for what I think the ingredient will do to the dish.)
More cucumber would increase the clean taste.
Makes me think I shouldn't worry until I taste it this evening. Both the garlic and cucumber flavors should increase as it sits.
101: I periodically engage in similar lyrical updates, but typically it's just an encoded message/inside joke thing with the one friend who I know will know what I meant by that every time.
92: I'm smoking half my bird using apple wood, and I think my basting sauce will be applebutter and rendered bacon fat. No idea if it'll work out, but it seems like it should work.
(I'm just smoking for flavor--I'll roast the two halves together and serve carved halves side by side on a bed of stuffing.)
92: I'm smoking half my bird using apple wood, and I think my basting sauce will be applebutter and rendered bacon fat. No idea if it'll work out, but it seems like it should work.
(I'm just smoking for flavor--I'll roast the two halves together and serve carved halves side by side on a bed of stuffing.)
I really haven't planned for dinner tomorrow in any useful way at all.
So wait, half the turkey will be roasted not having been smoked, and half having been smoked? Won't that complicate things?
Yes, but it'll be a cold smoke, and they'll both be at the same temp going into the oven.
I'm roasting two ducks, and AWB is making a perhaps-as-yet-undetermined kind of pie.
He's bought a turkey, and my office is closing at three today, so I have time to get some stuff done. I've just been having an overwhelming couple of weeks, and my normal mulling-over what I want to do for a holiday meal process hasn't happened somehow. Eh, turkey, mashed potatoes, mashed rutabaga, gratined brussels sprouts, stuffing, cranberry sauce, gravy... we won't starve. And pie of course.
108: You could just post "bah bah bahbah bah bum" as an update.
Hmmm, would that not be "bah bah bahbah bah bum"? or is my case of White Man's Disease so all-consuming that I cannot even musically parse freaking "Iron Man"?
122: I was thinking the same thing, but wasn't brave enough to post it.
I am considering just getting a car to your house tomorrow. Also, communicating with you via Unfogged.
You already are communicating with me via Unfogged.
Hmmm, would that not be "bah bah bahbah bah bum"? or is my case of White Man's Disease so all-consuming that I cannot even musically parse freaking "Iron Man"?
I have to admit to not being familiar with the song, so I don't have an opinion. But, I note, even if that is incorrect it takes nothing away from the linked comment.
to post two or three lines of "classic" rock lyrics as a status update.
I posted a line from "Lust for Life" in my status the other day, and everyone urged me not to quit taking drugs.
Please keep taking drugs! Don't deny yourself life's few pleasures!
I'm roasting two ducks,
With one stone?
131: With one stone?
So this is the revealing secrets thread!
and everyone urged me not to quit taking drugs>/i>
The sad thing is that I read this and my first thought is NSAIDs...
98: Holy jeebers, that sounds fantastic.
Various: NickS, that dip sounds wonderful. I actually like the idea of starting with a slightly sweet note that dissolves into garlicky yogurty bite.
113: I cannot imagine apple butter and bacon fat doing bad things to turkey. My mother just loaded me down with just-finished homemade apple butter on Saturday. When we had some on biscuits with breakfast on Sunday I said to Rah, "Just think, yesterday morning this was an apple."
If I could finish off all of this with a slice of bourbon caramel apple pie, I happily would do so.
Looking at what I've got in the house and what seems interesting when I spin the Wheel o' Internet, I think for Friday night's dinner with friends' I'm going to bake turkey legs and thighs, one pan in a traditional Western NC tomato-based barbecue sauce + amendments as they occur to me and one pan in my first-ever SC-style mustard barbecue sauce. In discussing this with the meat-eater in that couple we decided that barbecue-baked was the wow-I-never-have-that version of turkey that we wanted most.
Tomorrow is dinner at Rah's mom's place and I will probably bake some sort of molasses-y bread machine bread for it just to avoid showing up empty-handed.
Notes from the Sifu/Blume/Many others thanksgiving:
- I'm brining a turkey for the first time. It is an incredibly giant turkey (I'm not sure I knew they came that big) so it's in the garage in one of those tubs you put kegs in to keep them cold. I can't help but call the garage the "turkey spa", to ever-decreasing amusement.
- I wonder how many pies we'll have? We should do an over-under, maybe set the line at twelve.
- Wait, somebody's letting me cook the turkey? Oh god, we're fucked.
to ever-decreasing amusement.
Don't let the haters stifle your self-actualization. Surely you'll get some new audience members tomorrow who will provide renewed acclamation for your wit.
It's started raining here, so I'm bailing on the smoking half plan. A tip on brining: turn a fan on the brined turkey after it's out and towel dried for an hour or so, or you will never get crisp skin.
I will probably bake some sort of molasses-y bread machine bread for it just to avoid showing up empty-handed
You could do Boston brown bread. It is molasses-y and a quick bread so not very much work.
You have to towel dry it for an hour?
What if it's going to hang out in the fridge for 8 or so hours before going in the oven? Do I still have to dry it with a fan?
Deep tissue massage for the turkey?!
You could do Boston brown bread. It is molasses-y and a quick bread so not very much work.
Oooh! Thanks for the tip!
What if it's going to hang out in the fridge for 8 or so hours before going in the oven?
My guess is you would be fine then. The fridge should dry the outside of the bird fairly well.
141: yeah, you'll be fine. (Just towel dry to get the puddley areas around the neck, wings, and thighs.)
Update: I tasted the tzatziki sauce and it's fine. As the flavors have blended the sweetness has faded into the background. I did add a little bit more salt and olive oil.
Also, the local farm fresh "extra-thick" "greek style" yogurt is the thickest yogurt I've ever worked with. My tzatziki sauce is around the consistency of standard yogurt.
Also, and I've probably mentioned this before, but 209 gin is really tasty. I just had a small glass straight, slightly chilled, but not cold, and no ice and it is delicious.
You need to plan to make stuffing, because you have to dry out the bread.
