Re: Off the top of my head...

1

Funnily enough, I watched Airplane for the first time yesterday. That is a movie that didn't age well.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:07 AM
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1: You are wrong. So very, very wrong.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:12 AM
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I mean, I'm sure you are right that you watched Airplane yesterday. I'm hardly in a position to dispute that you've never watched Airplane before yesterday. You are wrong about Airplane not aging well.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:13 AM
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Also, the Princess Bride is great. When I was in high school, we taught a friend's toddler-aged brother to say 'inconceivable'.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:20 AM
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Fletch 2!?!?!?!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:22 AM
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Are you kidding? The jokes were kinda lame (excepting the ones I'd heard before, and they all required too much setup. I'll grant you that it was a hugely influential, but the state of the art has built on that foundation to the point that Airplane can't compete in the same league. (Same thing with Stripes.)


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:22 AM
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The Princess Bride, however, still rocks.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:25 AM
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I'm with Chopper. I remembered it being side-splittingly hilarious, but when I watched it as an adult, it fell flat. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar remained awesome, though.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:25 AM
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Naked Gun hasn't aged well, but that has more to do with one particular casting decision.


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:28 AM
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Anyone who likes Airplane should rent Police Squad!, the TV show that Naked Gun followed up. It's the same sort of stuff as Airplane and Naked Gun, but I think it worked better -- the combination of Borscht Belt humor and surrealism gets strained when you try to do it for two hours straight.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:32 AM
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The Princess Bride is my go to drunk movie. Well, that and Lebowski.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:33 AM
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10: I have watched those, but it's been a while. They were very good, but I still like Airplane better. And I'm always massively dissappointed that hardly anybody can make a spoof anymore. "Not Another Teen Movie" was good, but every other spoof in the past 10 years has not been worth the time to watch it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:35 AM
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Scream was very good, and was both spoof and took itself seriously. I think it's had so many imitators that it's easy to forget that it was the first mainstream horror-movie-with-a-wink.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:38 AM
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13 doesn't contradict 12, as I realize that Scream probably came out in 1995.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:39 AM
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Once when some cousins were sleeping over we went to Blockbuster and ended up with Adventures in Babysitting because my sister wouldn't agree to anything else.

Elizabeth Shue has aged well.


Posted by: mark eff | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:40 AM
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the first mainstream horror-movie-with-a-wink.

Wait, Nightmare on Elm Street wasn't a comedy?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:40 AM
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13: I think A Nightmare on Elm Street had lots of winky elements to it, but it's true that Scream was more forthrightly genre-spoofing.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:42 AM
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This reminds me: just the other day Sir Kraab watched Better Off Dead, which has held up pretty well, and we were on opposite sides of the age-old debate of whether Say Anything is great or horrible, and whether Dobler is great or creepy.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:44 AM
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13: I guess I wouldn't count Scream as a spoof. Still, we can give $800 billion to a fucked-up insurance company but we can't even make a new "Top Secret"?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:44 AM
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Dammit essear!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:45 AM
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Kids are mythical creatures, so mine will all like Bull Durham.


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:45 AM
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Top Secret

Woo!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:49 AM
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Scream was very good, and was both spoof and took itself seriously.

This is also why Scary Movie was one of the stupidest film concepts of all time. "Let's make a spoof of that spoof!"


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:50 AM
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Iris already loves It's a Wonderful Life and the Odyssey; I think I've used up all my cultural influence.

Actually, based on his predilections thus far*, Kai will grow up to be a baseball player and fan, so that's about all I need.

* Love for balls and other round objects; constant desire to throw things; enormous pleasure at seeing others throw things


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:52 AM
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This is also why Scary Movie was one of the stupidest film concepts of all time. "Let's make a spoof of that spoof!"

Wait - which one had Carmen Whatsherface running around in her underwear? That was the good one.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:53 AM
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23 is totally right.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:53 AM
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Love for balls

Baseball player or gay porn star, that is.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:55 AM
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26 is totally a spoof.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:57 AM
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I'd add This is Spinal Tap to my "You aren't my children if you don't like this" list (fortunately they all passed that one). Being pretty much at the other end of this process, I will say that one of the greatest joys of parenting has been watching them "discover" old favorites of mine* (movies, books, music, what have you). I will counsel a light touch; I overpushed and/or was early on a few. For a *great* treatment of this subject I strongly urge everyone (again) to read A Princess Bride. The movie is great, but the book is great in several other ways; the frame story is wonderfully done and absolutely relevant to this post.

*I've also enjoyed when their appreciation of something that I did not like at the time has made me look at it with new eyes. Also my discovering stuff through them that I was not familiar with--old stuff and new. Also great: kittens, puppies, Strongbad, O Brother Where Art Thou, the distant sound of a train whistle evoking memories of my youth, geese crossing the full moon during a frigid November night ...


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:02 AM
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Baseball player or gay porn star, that is.

Potayto, Potahto.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:02 AM
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29: I have read the Princess Bride and you are right to recommend the book. I've also read the novelization of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. I cannot recommend that one.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:04 AM
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I echo the support of the Princess Bride novel, and offer up Charles In Charge to the list of things that did not need to be novelized.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:06 AM
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Ferris Beuller, too, of course. Real Genius.

So many classics that I keep thinking, is she old enough for that yet?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:08 AM
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We've been enjoying 80s teen comedies. Back to the Future, Ferris Buehler, Big. MJ Fox is much, much, better than M Broderick, and Tom Hanks is really good with physical humor. Also, in Big, the actress who plays the love interest clearly grows up to be Celia in Weeds, which was kind of surprising, a pleasant echo.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:09 AM
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Kids love Showgirls.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:10 AM
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and whether Dobler is great or creepy.

Creepy.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:10 AM
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Ferris Beuller, too, of course.

FAST TIMES!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:16 AM
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36: Cryptic Ned understands.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:18 AM
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Fast Times is totally tubendicular.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:19 AM
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37 gets it right.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:20 AM
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38 is once again applicable.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:22 AM
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Mutual Admiration Society meeting at 12:00 in the break room.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:24 AM
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I've never actually seen Fast Times. Or Animal House. You guys could probably do a whole thread on Best Movie Ever That Di Has Never Seen.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:25 AM
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I love Real Genius, but I'm worried that the details aren't aging well. Lasers can still seem plenty high-tech, so that's fine, but the computer, vending machine, tape recorders... all starting to reek a little.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:25 AM
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44: Between that and Top Secret, I'm alway a bit upset that Val Kilmer stopped doing comedy.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:29 AM
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43: I've never seen Fast Times either. Or Sixteen Candles. Seem kind of pointless now. (Animal House is worth seeing.)


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:30 AM
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Until recently I sort of thought "Top Secret" and "Hot Shots Part Deux" were the same movie. And that "Real Genius" and "Weird Science" were the same movie. This happens when you watch things during your formative years, with "formative" defined as "when you have no frame of reference and your brain is mush and you don't really pay attention to what you're watching because you don't understand what's going on".

Also, not until this very moment did I contemplate that there was a movie called "Hot Shots", to which "Hot Shots Part Deux" was the sequel. I thought being called "Part Deux" was one of the jokes.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:33 AM
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44: See, there's the problem. It would be so great to share Real Genius with Rory before it's too dated to be appreciated, but then I vaguely remember that there are some "inappropriate" bits that would (a) be inappropriate and (b) appall her tender sensibilities, causing her to think ill of me.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:34 AM
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that it's easy to forget that it was the first mainstream horror-movie-with-a-wink.

Horror Spoofs:40s Abbott & Costello Meet Universal Scary Critter; 60s William Castle movies

Wasn't Whale's Old Dark House 31? a spoof?

In desperation (it was the very end of the month, and I had seen all the Pawn Shop shoes) I watched Fired Up last night, American Pie meets Bring it On. It made me laugh. This was so subtle a spoof most don't get it.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:39 AM
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Holy shit, Mel Brooks made an english language adaptation of the early soviet classic Twelve Chairs.

Fast Times is wonderful, but I have actually been watching these with my kid, and the drug humor smells wrong. I am completely unsure how to deal with that; a blanket "drugs are wrong" is nuts, since he sees people undamaged by alcohol all the time. Pointing out what's wrong with 11-year old potheads remains easy, but countering a well-done, dope-positive movie is hard.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:39 AM
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45:Between that and Top Secret, I'm alway a bit upset that Val Kilmer stopped doing comedy.

Good Grief. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang 2005

Kilmer apparently is getting a ton of work in every genre now. Good


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:45 AM
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I'm alway a bit upset that Val Kilmer stopped doing comedy.

What are you talking about?


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:46 AM
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51, 52: I'm not as attentive to movies as I used to be. Apparently I miss a great deal.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:48 AM
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but countering a well-done, dope-positive movie is hard.

Well, it's hard because you have to lie about stuff. Smoking dope in fact won't do you much harm. Going to jail will, interacting with criminals will, but I think the honest response was "Yeah, dope is pretty harmless. But at the time and place this movie was made, the laws against it weren't enforced much, so these kids weren't putting themselves in danger. Here and now, the legal jeopardy is huge, so don't even think about it."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:48 AM
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51: Okay, change that to "I'm a bit upset that Val Kilmer made zero comedies between 1986 and 2005".

(depending on how you view "True Romance")


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:49 AM
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Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is great, btw, and Kilmer great in it.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:52 AM
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Smoking dope in fact won't do you much harm

Surely this requires a caveat about dope-influenced music preferences?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:54 AM
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55: ...between 1986 and 2005

Those are pretty much the years that I paid the most attention to movies.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:54 AM
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Here and now, the legal jeopardy is huge

This is also untrue.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:54 AM
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57: OT, but I don't think that I've seen you on Null Space before.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:55 AM
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That is to say, getting caught with marijuana in 2009 is a far less serious legal problem than it was during FTaRH, which was during Ronald "War on Drugs" Reagan's heyday.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:56 AM
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57: yeah, god forbid your kids grow up liking jazz.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:04 AM
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61: I don't actually know, but I have the vague belief that enforcement involves less reliable winking at violations of law by nice harmless kids now than then. (And the 'then' of the movie probably reflects attitudes of several years before, which gets you back into the seventies.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:04 AM
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Next apostropher's going to tell us that the first sample is free.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:05 AM
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Checking wikipedia, Cameron Crowe would have been in high school in the mid-to-late seventies, during which time he was touring with fucking Zeppelin, so presumably his take on drug enforcement would be somewhat skewed, but the year he spent undercover in high school was seemingly around 1980 or so (the book came out in 1981).


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:08 AM
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Also the book and movie took place in California, where weed spills out from the cracks in the streets and the mouths of starlets, and always has.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:09 AM
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Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is one of my two beloved dealbreaker movies. The dealbreaker is using shooting someone in the head as a comic effect. Pulp Fiction is of course the other one.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:09 AM
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65: There's a book???

Dude. Why did I not know that?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:09 AM
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I am less interested in what to say to a teenager, and very interested in what to say until then that will have traction. I started taking drugs pretty young, stopped when I was 16 and pretty messed up. No recapitulation, please. There is an appropriate age, and it's not when the first kids in school start cutting classes, but quite a bit later.

I do not think that lying is necessary when they are little. I know exactly what's wrong with the 11-year olds that start, so they're an easy target, but I do not want dispositive role models on this one, so that's one funny movie we won't be enjoying together.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:15 AM
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My sense is that there is at least as much, and probably way way more, winking going on now as in the 70s, even aside from the actual legislative situation.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:15 AM
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I read Fast Times ages ago, so my recollection is pretty hazy, but I remember being surprised that I liked the movie so much more than the book. Probably the only time that's ever happened for me.

Not that the book is bad, mind you, but the movie is a triumph.


Posted by: toops | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:22 AM
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The dealbreaker is using shooting someone in the head as a comic effect.

Liz Lemon suddenly seems much more sinister.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:26 AM
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67: That's a deawbweaker for me too, at least when someone does it to me.


Posted by: E. Fudd | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:39 AM
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73: "someone" s/b "somebunny"


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:54 AM
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54: Dope = marijuana, right? (Yeah, I'm hip to the lingo... ) Telling kids that it's "pretty harmless" is just as wrong as telling them they will become instant addicts and die a miserable death upon the first puff. Pot does impair you, and (unlike alcohol) it remains active in the brain well after you stop feeling like you are impaired. (I am relying, of course, on expert deposition testimony.) Is it worse than alcohol? Worse than tobacco? Probably not. But I wouldn't tell my kid that stuff was "pretty harmless" and that the only reason not to do it was fear of getting caught. They can be very enjoyable, and there are definite downsides.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:57 AM
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(I am relying, of course, on expert deposition testimony.)

What could possibly go wrong?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:58 AM
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Telling kids that it's "pretty harmless" is just as wrong as telling them they will become instant addicts and die a miserable death upon the first puff.

But man, you keep it up, you'll become one of those pathetic pot junkies OD'ing on pot in a so-called "toking gallery". No, honest. You can OD on pot. And get addicted to it. Shut up, I'm an expert!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:01 AM
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Pot does impair you, and (unlike alcohol) it remains active in the brain well after you stop feeling like you are impaired.

Other things that impair you and affect your brain, even when you don't realize it: lack of sleep; watching cable news; eating a large lunch; drinking too much coffee; blogs.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:04 AM
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Mmm. My standard for 'pretty harmless' in that context is 'no scarier than alcohol'. Of course, alcohol isn't harmless itself, but it's safe enough to use, sensibly, for fun (and the kids know I feel this way about alcohol, because they see me drink). And pot's a lot safer -- you can actually die of alcohol poisoning, while I don't think ODing on pot is possible.

But you're right that it's not perfectly harmless.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:05 AM
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78: just for fun, let's rank them in order from least impairing to most on some specific task. To make it topical, I'm going to pick "writing a civics paper".

Here's my take:
1. drinking too much coffee
2. pot
3. eating a large lunch
4. lack of sleep
5. watching cable news

We could do the same thing for driving!
1. drinking too much coffee
2. eating a large lunch
3. pot
4. lack of cable sleep
5. watching cable news (while driving)

Lesson? Cable news kills.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:06 AM
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while I don't think ODing on pot is possible

It actually is. If I remember right, you have to somehow ingest something on the order of three pounds of THC in an hour, but if you can figure out how to do that (and believe me, we've tried) then you'll OD.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:07 AM
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Omit the extra "cable" in 80. Or don't, as it's kind of fun.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:07 AM
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83

I've known some people who claim pot improves their driving skills. It does seem to make people drive slower.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:09 AM
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77: Yes, Sifu. That's *exactly* what I was implying.

78: Not disputing that at all.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:09 AM
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That this entire thread hasn't been devoted to amplifying JRoth's 5 tells you all you need to know about the decline of the American empire (and unfogged, I guess).


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:09 AM
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(Yeah, I'm hip to the lingo... )

You know, I know a million words for marijuana, but I don't actually know which are currently non-absurd, given that I don't actually smoke the stuff myself. I tend to head for 'dope' as the least silly sounding, but I'm not actually on top of what sounds normal.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:10 AM
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Or don't, as it's kind of fun.

If you're stoned, maybe.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:11 AM
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JRoths 5 was a terrible movie. They should have stopped after JRoths 3.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:12 AM
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Also, I haven't smoked pot since that one time in graduate school, and before that not since seventh-tenth grades, four entire years that I spent stoned (or high in some other way), but lately I'd been thinking it would be fun to try again. But now that I hear it's as bad for you as cable news, I probably won't risk it.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:12 AM
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Pot does impair you, and (unlike alcohol) it remains active in the brain well after you stop feeling like you are impaired.

I sort of agree with this when it comes to high school age kids. They're still figuring out how to manage their normal brain. Adding a whole new brain state could be problematic. Plus, high school is a drag, and pot makes every form of drag-evading procrastination more fun. Sort of a bug, sort of a feature.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:12 AM
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There were extensive studies in the UK on pot's impact on driving skills. The short form, from memory, is that it doesn't affect reaction time or judgment, but it does affect fine motor control.

There have also been studies on the effect on long-term (like, 20+ years) chronic (like, more or less constantly all day) pot use. The short form, from memory, is that chronic users were shown to have impaired short term memory, but former chronic users with three months or so of abstention showed no change over the control.

Pot is pretty much harmless, except that if you're high all the time you'll be (a) boring and (b) kind of useless.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:13 AM
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83: It supposedly improves driving skills in isolation, but impairs the ability to multitask. This was the issue in the case I dead the dep in -- and the expert was the pothead's retained expert, so, you know.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:13 AM
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91.last unless you're snoop.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:14 AM
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Dope refers to heroin, LB. And heroin is certainly safer to use than cable news.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:14 AM
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not since seventh-tenth grades, four entire years that I spent stoned

see? Smoke too much pot too young, you end up in the humanities. That has a devastating effect on your lifetime earnings.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:14 AM
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Wait, I meant for cable news to be the worst in both categories in 80. Did I fuck it up? I'm so high.

92 sounds reasonable to me. Don't drive high unless you have a really fun car and a broken radio.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:15 AM
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The short form, from memory, is that chronic users were shown to have impaired short term memory, but former chronic users with three months or so of abstention showed no change over the control.

I'd buy that anecdotally -- I had a friend in the Peace Corps who had spent a year or so stoned all day after a bad divorce, and said she was a caricature pothead during that period. But after she cheered up and stopped smoking so much, she wasn't particularly ditsier than anyone else.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:15 AM
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96.last also confirmed by personal experience.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:15 AM
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if you're high all the time you'll be (a) boring and (b) kind of useless

Hey look, 7th-10th grades! I (don't) remember it well!


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:15 AM
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94: That too, but also pot, right?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:16 AM
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95: I'm a social scientist (at least here), thanks. Which is important, as the humanists get paid less. So stfu, please.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:17 AM
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You know, I know a million words for marijuana, but I don't actually know which are currently non-absurd, given that I don't actually smoke the stuff myself.

I remember that starting in about junior high they'd periodically show us these 10 to 20 year old public health movies about topics such as venereal diseases, basic hygiene, illegal drugs, etc. The drug ones were always funny because of all the dated lingo they were supposedly hepping us to.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:17 AM
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It supposedly improves driving skills in isolation, but impairs the ability to multitask.

if a really good song comes on the radio, you're fucked.

unless you're snoop.

lots of famous musicians were serious potheads. Louis Armstrong, for one.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:18 AM
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100: I don't think so. At least not among my students, who seem to call pot "pot". I wish they would call it "reefer", "Mary Jane", or "grass, man", but no matter how often I ask, they refuse.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:19 AM
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I call it "the Devil's instrument".


Posted by: Carrie Nation | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:21 AM
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I wish they would call it "reefer", "Mary Jane", or "grass, man"

Ari's looking to score some killer wacky tobacky.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:23 AM
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"Toledo Windowbox".


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:24 AM
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Village Voice jazz critic Gary Giddins wrote in his biography of Crosby in his early days, "Louis [Armstrong]'s influence on Bing extended to his love of marijuana, which he alternately called mezz (after Mezz Mezzrow), gage, pot, or muggles.

Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:25 AM
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104: IME it generally depends on the verb used. Smoking dope means pot, using/shooting/taking/dealing dope usually refers to heroin. If I heard someone was a dope dealer I'd assume they sold hard drugs, else they'd just be a plain old pot dealer.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:25 AM
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107: Seriously? That's one I've never heard.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:28 AM
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100: True, but for reduced ambiguity "weed" is preferable, and "herb" is even better. I know heads who get pissed at pot being called dope. Herb is universal in my experience and using that term implies you are mellow about the whole thing.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:30 AM
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110: Not seriously.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:31 AM
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"Herb" does have the benefit of explaining how "Toledo Windowbox" might have been derived.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:31 AM
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re: 111

Calling it 'herb' where I come from would immediately label you as a trustafarian arse.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:34 AM
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113: Right. Herb Toledo was one of the finest windowbox crafters of the last century.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:35 AM
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115: If I had to live in Toledo, I wouldn't be growing basil in my windowbox.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:36 AM
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114: What's the approved term round thereparts then? I hate looking like a trustafarian arse.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:37 AM
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117: My suggestion would be to use all of the syllables that aren't used when pronouncing "Worcestershire".


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:50 AM
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Rceshire?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:51 AM
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119: Thank you. That's it. I'd spent way too much time trying to figure out what letters to keep.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:53 AM
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Now do Cholmondeley.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:54 AM
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No, I'm saving myself!


Posted by: Cholmondeley | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:56 AM
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And I'm married.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 10:57 AM
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To Cholmondeley?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:02 AM
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My money's on "houghmagandy".


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:15 AM
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That one, I have no idea how to pronounce. "Hi"?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:21 AM
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Then there was the time I took a ferry from Holyhead, intending to end up in "Dun Leary". Turns out it went to Dún Laoghaire.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:28 AM
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You could drive all over Texas and you'll never find Manchack.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:28 AM
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Though "forecastle" would be interesting, but it only leaves "reat" or maybe "reate".



Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:29 AM
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Which reminds me, there was a pub band in London in the early nineties that I never saw play but I loved their name: Paddy Goes to Holyhead.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:30 AM
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You could drive all over Texas and you'll never find Manchack.

Or Dún Laoghaire.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:31 AM
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Huh, whaddya know?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:33 AM
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91.last gets it right.

Is the new-parent thinking about what movies it would be neat for the kid(s) to like a variant on, or instantiation of, what may be every parent's seekrit wish that her or his kids will be kinda mostly like her or him? I'm not a parent, but that's got to be a difficult, ongoing question.

For context: a friend recently told me, quite casually, that oh, his daughter is in a steady relationship with a woman now, realized she was a lesbian like last year or so. This was part of my friend's recounting of his Thanksgiving, at which the question of how to explain the state of affairs to Granny was discussed among the family.

I was ... really proud! And smiling. We've come some way, where a family takes news like that casually, the daughter imparts it readily, and people are mostly worried about how to tell Granny. Apparently it all went well. Granny has already met the girlfriend anyway, but the term "special friend" wasn't getting through to her.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:35 AM
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Coxswain? Gunwhale?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:35 AM
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1: Shirley, you can't be serious!


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:36 AM
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134: Those terms for lesbian lovers are actually dispreferred nowadays, M/tch.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:38 AM
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Sorry parsley, parents don't want offspring with good taste, parents want offspring who taste good.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:39 AM
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136: No, no, they're being reappropriated. Coxswain Nation: Get Used to It.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:42 AM
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Every time I walk through the Haight and Stanyan, someone offers me something called "kine bud", so I take it that's the preferred term hereabouts.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:44 AM
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137 - ?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:45 AM
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To the OP: 5 movies I would expect any hypothetical kid of mine to like, or else:
1. The Guns of Navarone
2. Raiders of the Lost Ark
3. Malcolm X
4. The Empire Strikes Back
5. The Discrete Charm of the Bourgeoisie

Five movies I liked when I was a kid that I wouldn't really expect anyone, especially hypothetical kids, to like:
1. The Apple Dumpling Gang
2. Empire of the Sun
3. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Hunt for Red October


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:46 AM
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140: 133.2


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:48 AM
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The Discrete Charm of the Bourgeoisie

After all, being continuously charming is too much work.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:50 AM
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Relatedly, I once was sad to realize that the overlap between people who understand the physics term "continuum charm" and people who know about Buñuel films just wasn't large enough for my clever joke to be properly appreciated.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:52 AM
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143: That's neb's line! I was actually thinking about putting in (director, year) after each film, but I thought that might be a bit much. Would have reminded me which homonym I meant though.

On Naming the Beast: The most confusing terminology I am acquainted with came from an old man who lived in my building when I lived down in Warm Mpls. He asked my friend and me if we wanted some "Malta". Only weeks later did we realize he was using some regional variant of "mota".


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:53 AM
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144: I was just going to ask if you had a "charm quark" joke up your sleeve.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 11:54 AM
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140: 133.2

Doesn't really help. Is "tasting good" (as opposed to having good taste) supposed to be the equivalent of being just-like-me? Right, okay. That's the question.

I don't need to press it, of course, but if this place is going to be discussing all kids, or parenting, all the time, or most of the time, we might as well introduce a broader question or two.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:08 PM
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Dank nugs are dank nugs, brahs and brahettes.

You gotta figure "thai stick" is never coming back into regular currency.

I still have hope for "tea", though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:11 PM
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145: On Naming the Beast? You wouldn't think Milwaukee's Best would have so many street names.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:13 PM
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You gotta figure "thai stick" is never coming back into regular currency.

Huh. That gives new meaning to the name of a local restaurant.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:17 PM
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149: I thought that was just Midwestern slang.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:17 PM
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149: They have this new thing you wear around your waist and you can set your beer on it. It's called My Beast Friend.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:19 PM
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There's a competing product called the Hoppy.

That gives new meaning to the name of a local restaurant.

Did Sifu just blow your mind?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:21 PM
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if this place is going to be discussing all kids, or parenting, all the time

Topics of posts on the first page of the blog right now:

1) a Supreme Court case (admittedly, a case about student loans, but still)

2) kids movies (but the thread is actually about drugs and nomenclature, right?)

3) saving for college (I can see how this one would seem like the breeders are oppressing the childless hipsters)

4) civil liberties/the rule of law

5) partisan politics

6) something neb posted about

7) popular music


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:21 PM
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149, 151: Yes, I was thinking of making that joke super-meta with a Milwaukee's Best tie-in, but I couldn't figure out one that was succinct enough.

148: "Tea" is good. I do sometimes like to irritate hipster friends by saying "lamb's bread" or "chalice". O noes! Someone made a jokey reference to the cannabis that plays into straight-culture stereotypes about stoners!!!ZOMGeleven!11!!!1


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:21 PM
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It supposedly improves driving skills in isolation, but impairs the ability to multitask.

I thought it had been recently established that people who think they can multitask are fooling themselves.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:22 PM
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154: I hear that all the youngsters are either sluts or lesbians these days.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:23 PM
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We did have a huge flurry of baby-stuff advice off topic in the comments of one of those yesterday -- parsimon's right that babies/children/parenting is a topic that wakes things up around here.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:23 PM
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147: Parsimon, I believe the phrase in question was a crude reference to cunnilingus. So not exactly "babies-are-so-cute-single-people-baiting".


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:24 PM
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158: not like the intricacies of bankruptcy law, though. That's sure-fire.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:25 PM
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Did Sifu just blow your mind?

Totally, man! That's some fuckin' wild shit there brah.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:26 PM
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158: The same could be said of politics, recreational drugs, popular culture, and many other topics (but not swimming, I guess).


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:27 PM
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I liked it when Unfogged talked about hay. That was great.

159: Really? I thought cannibalism.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:27 PM
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147: Parsimon, I believe the phrase in question was a crude reference to cunnilingus.

I thought it was a reference to cannibalism.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:27 PM
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Megan!!!


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:28 PM
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159: and here I thought it was a crude reference to cannibalism.

Hey, is there a word for intra-familial cannibalism? Like infantinnibalism? Masticular incest? "If you can't keep it out of the oven, keep it in the family", that whole kind of thing?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:28 PM
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Hay? When did we talk about hay?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:29 PM
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I'm with Megan. I thought M/tch simply noticed that a simple inversion of the word order of the locution "good taste" would yield "taste good", and took advantage of this fact to make a cannibalism joke that was really apropo to nothing.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:29 PM
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Let's just pretend the part of my comment where I got pwned like a dry-brined toddler never happened.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:30 PM
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I hear that all the youngsters are either sluts or lesbians these days.

Oh, to be young again.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:30 PM
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159: Oh. Really? Oh.

I didn't think it was single-people-baiting, though. It just seemed a non-sequitur.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:31 PM
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My God, doesn't anyone remember Charlie the Tuna?


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:31 PM
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For one glorious afternoon we talked about hay. We talked about how heavy a bale is, and when they spontaneously combust. People described hitching a bale up onto a thigh, then into the back of a truck. People talked about their favorite kinds of hay and more people had opinions than you might think.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:32 PM
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What's good single people bait? Nightcrawlers? Leeches?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:32 PM
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Otto, I'm still not quite getting it. Again, slower?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:33 PM
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I thought M/tch was talking about cannibalism.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:36 PM
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172: Thank you! What's wrong with everybody? Too much dopesmoking?

174: Laches!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:37 PM
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167, 173: I remember it also, but I'm not finding it. I did find that last year somebody was commenting as Moby Ape, which makes me feel less special.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:38 PM
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173: Wasn't it straw that was being discussed?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:38 PM
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I recommend brick over straw.


Posted by: Third Little Pig | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:41 PM
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I SMASH SCISSORS!


Posted by: OPINIONATED BRICK | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:41 PM
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HULK SMASH BRICK!!


Posted by: OPINIONATED HULK | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:44 PM
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177: Okay, okay, I admit I heard the "Sorry, Charlie" echo, but I couldn't remember the rest of how it went, and then other offerings sent it all off on a tangent.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:48 PM
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There's no way I can cover Hulk. Do you have anything in rock?


Posted by: paper | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:51 PM
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Talking of tuna and cunnilingus, does the recipient's diet affect, you know, scent and all? In particular the thing women say about vegetarian men, does it carry over?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:55 PM
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173: For one glorious afternoon we talked about hay.

Megan, I do not remember that conversation. Nonetheless, I spent a couple of weeks baling hay, and hauling it, or heaving it, onto truck beds, in Western Mass. one summer. Everybody there was a lesbian except me and my boyfriend at the time. But his sister and her girlfriend, and our hosts/employers, who were coincidentally Radcliffe alumnae, on the elderly side. The latter talked about that a lot, and served us hearty suppers. A good time was had by all, but man were we sore. Hardest physical work I've ever done.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:56 PM
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My God, doesn't anyone remember Charlie the Tuna?

Seriously, people. Jurassic 5 only broke up a couple of years go. Know your heritage!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:56 PM
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Is the new-parent thinking about what movies it would be neat for the kid(s) to like a variant on, or instantiation of, what may be every parent's seekrit wish that her or his kids will be kinda mostly like her or him?

Um, so taking your question seriously. Unlike some people around here. I think it's really just part of the entire process of seeking emotional intimacy in your most important relationships. The movies, music, books you like reflect something about you as a person and you want to share that with your kids and you hope they sort of like it. You don't so much want them to be like you, just to like you.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:59 PM
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187: You should talk about jazz, or maybe blues, apostropher. You'll scare off all the commenters otherwise.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 12:59 PM
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God, 186 was an indulgence of memory. Sorry.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:01 PM
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More concretely, if your <5-year-old kid decides they like a movie, you really should hope it's one that you like as well. Because you're going to see it roughly 5000 times before they get sick of it.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:02 PM
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there are some "inappropriate" bits that would (a) be inappropriate and (b) appall her tender sensibilities, causing her to think ill of me

IME kids are pretty good at filtering the "inappropriate" bits on their own. Although my son did get more interested in the scene with Belushi on the ladder in Animal House around the time he started puberty, so.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:02 PM
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Indulge away! As someone with no salient memories of hay, it's interesting to hear about what I've been missing out on.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:02 PM
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I remember the hay conversation, Megan! It was sweet.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that just because no matter what topic comes up, there are a dozen people here who have in depth personal knowledge of it, doesn't mean that there are a dozen people here with in depth personal knowledge of absolutely everything.

I felt the same way when I found out that no less than three regular commenters play the theramin.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:03 PM
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186: Details please. What size bale? What type of grass? Did the cows like it?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:04 PM
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it's interesting to hear about what I've been missing out on

I think the point was that lesbians will make you sore.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:04 PM
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192: See, (b) is the more dominant concern. Rory is a pretty hard-core goody two shoes. The other night she made reference to some PG-13 movie that "at least half" her class had seen and didn't I think maybe that was inappropriate for kids her age? I hadn't seen it so I honestly had no opinion. Other than to point out that she watches House religiously, which isn't exactly "appropriate," and also that I thought some of her friends' parents were uptight jerks who worry too much about being appropriate. That last maybe I should have kept to myself. But she spends an awful lot of time pondering what's appropriate.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:07 PM
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Has she thought about going into Victorian novelising?


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:08 PM
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197: So maybe she needs to try pot?


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:08 PM
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197: I hope the peer pressure isn't getting to be too much for you, Di.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:11 PM
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I'd like to see a Victorian novelization of Fast Times at Ridgemont High.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:11 PM
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It's "weed", as in "He got weed! He got weed!"

I think the British study mentioned is the second link under Misc.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_driving.shtml

Didn't seem to be much of an effect on reaction time, and if anything people on weed drove slower. There was a noticeable reduction in the ability to control their driving in the figure 8, but nothing like you'd see with alcohol.

One of our motors caught a DUI a couple weeks back and the guy had half a pound in the car that smelled fantastic. I think he said it was blueberry kush.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:14 PM
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Cheese it, the fuzz!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:18 PM
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"Persons on opium should not ride."

"Worry not, young Master Jefferson. We shall fix your brother's carriage. My father has a most impressive set of tools."


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:19 PM
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196: Apo hears the smile, the humor. It's like nobody can multitask any more.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:19 PM
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Ever since that study came out, I haven't been able to multitask.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:20 PM
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Is that what the kids are calling group sex these days?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:22 PM
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204 to 201, obvs.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:23 PM
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207: I think the kids use the term 'MP3 Player'. Otherwise, I cannot understand why iPods cost so much.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:24 PM
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Nobody multitasks anymore, they're too busy.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:25 PM
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207: Yes, and they call multitasking "group sex".


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:25 PM
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185: Yes, you all need to go to Standpipe's remedial euphemism blog.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:26 PM
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My thesis adviser thinks everyone in the lab could be better at group sex.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:27 PM
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212: It's kind of funny to hear a northerner address a single person as "you all".


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:28 PM
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YMMV, but I like to share things with people who are likely to get something out of them. This is easier with offspring than nearly anyone else, since you know more about their mental and emotional state, and tastes in general. More than a spouse, even.

I shared a duplex with a biker guy once. Not a Hells Angel, but something similar. One day he knocked on my door, and when I opened it, he told me that he'd seen a poem he thought I'd like. Then he ripped a page from a library book and handed it to me. Oh, thanks. And I did like the poem.

I've probably told this before.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:28 PM
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214: Sorry, poor referencing protocol. The "you all" comprised commenters in 163, 164, 166 and 168.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:30 PM
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re: 130

I actually DID see them. I travelled down with some friends from Edinburgh to see a (terrible) gig at the Hammersmith Odeon in, iirc, early 1989, and after the gig we went to some bar in that area and Paddy Goes to Hollyhead were playing. I have no memory of it, much, though.

re: terminology. It was always very simple where I grew up. Dope, or grass/hash [depending on the substance]. Not much in the way of fancy code words or 'in' terms. Also, 'a spliff' for the joint singular, OK. 'Spliff' as a mass noun for the substance rolled inside the joint singular, another piece of trustafarian wankery. This may be largely my personal opinion.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:30 PM
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203 is funny.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:31 PM
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217.1: I was surprised to see that there was some member overlap between PGTH and Sweet and Uriah Heep.

217.2: Isn't there a Robert Burns poem like "The Smoking of the Spleiugh" or something?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:35 PM
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60: I've commented once or twice before, I think, but I only read occasionally - I find his tone a bit annoying, but there's good info there.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:36 PM
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Cheese it, the fuzz!

I'm totally searching everyone in this thread.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:36 PM
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203 is fuzzy.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:37 PM
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I find his tone a bit annoying

Try smoking more dope.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:38 PM
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221: Not without a warrant, you're not. We know our rights.*

*Some exceptions apply. May be void in Bankruptcy Court.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:41 PM
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Pretty much the sameish here -- weed is more common than grass tho'. Herb tends to mean either serious about it, or a wanker, or vaguely ironic. But there's more of an actual rasta influence here than in scotland.

and a spliff is generally mixed, but a joint straight.

(except for that nutter i met convinced someone had spiked the joint with LSD; I don't know how that one would work, even just on an economic level.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:44 PM
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Didn't seem to be much of an effect on reaction time, and if anything people on weed drove slower

I always liked the line "A person driving drunk will plow through a stop sign. A person driving high will sit at a stop sign for an hour waiting for it to turn green."


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 1:48 PM
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225 -- Dip the end in liquid. Not the lit end! That's what I would do. If I was to do something like that. Which I wouldn't. And by the way, it makes you a safer driver because trying to remember whether you're driving an automobile or a space shuttle requires considerable concentration. Or so I've heard. Or seen in a movie. Or heard about when someone was describing a movie. Maybe it was in a poem.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:00 PM
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226: That is an overstatement! The stoned person is being careful. And will likely just watch the clock and the speedometer in order to ascertain and correct for too-slowness.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:01 PM
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226:The Lady will not ride shotgun with me for this specific reason, and this is thirty years after quitting pot!

What what?

The light has fucking changed, Bob, and the cars are honking behind us!

Wow, really??

It may actually have nothing to do with pot but just a born tendency to get absorbed in the dust floating in the sunbeams, but Rory and other younguns don't need to know that.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:13 PM
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227: Since this isn't Bankruptcy Court, the statute of limitations on that poem ran years ago.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:13 PM
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215 is great.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:15 PM
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221: three cloth diapers, some cooking twine and a linoleum catalog later: "dammit, you people are squares!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:17 PM
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Sometimes we bore even ourselves.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:19 PM
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228: Standpipe's blog is . . . oh, what's the use?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:22 PM
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215 is great.

Seconded!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:25 PM
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234: Sir Kraab, 228 was an exercise in false indignance. It doesn't need Standpipe's blog's help.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:32 PM
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The "you all" comprised commenters

If you lived closer, I would kiss you for using "comprised" correctly. I can't begin to estimate how many times I've corrected it in documents at work. Possibly hundreds.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:33 PM
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But doesn't it make me sound smarter if I write "comprised of" instead of "composed of"?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:40 PM
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I guess "possibly hundreds" counts as beginning to estimate.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:47 PM
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I was going to let that one slide.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:48 PM
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No doubt what you meant was "literally millions of times".


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:48 PM
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After reading the pot is harmless run above, I'm curious as to whether the parents in this thread will try harder to scare their kids away from sex or drugs.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:49 PM
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236: 234 -> 215


Posted by: 478729837498675 | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 2:49 PM
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238: "comprise to"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:05 PM
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whether the parents in this thread will try harder to scare their kids away from sex or drugs

I'm far more invested in scaring them away from religion, to be honest.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:07 PM
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I'm far more invested in scaring them away from religion, to be honest.

Too right. And Republicanism. And Objectivism.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:12 PM
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I'm still trying to think if I could do the math necessary to prevent slowness with a clock. Stone cold sober. Let's see, I want to be going about 44 feet per second here. The lots along this road seem to be about 60 feet wide. That's x lots per minute . . .

Having a second teenager who presents the issue, I've found that health effects just doesn't work at all as a deterrent. There are ads in local papers for medical marijuana that they'll deliver to your house. Basically, 'because I said so' is about all one has in normal circumstances: we're new here, and law enforcement types are going to like cracking down on the new kid is one I have due to special circumstances.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:14 PM
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If you scare them away from religion and Objectivism, Republicanism will become extremely unlikely.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:14 PM
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I would advise scaring your children away from participating in live theater if you want them to be happy, in a stable relationship with an age-appropriate partner, and solvent.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:15 PM
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I'm conducting a program of scaring my children away from spiders by releasing tarantulas into their bedroom at intervals.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:19 PM
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251: So if other parents want to use your tactic, they should release singin'-and-dancin' religious potheads into their children's bedrooms at intervals? Sounds scary, all right.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:33 PM
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Um, 251 to 250, of course.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:37 PM
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251: indeed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:37 PM
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I plan on handling drugs just like my parents handled it with me. Big sigh, look 'em in the eye, and say, "Do not get caught. Whatever you do, do not get caught doing it."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:41 PM
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249: Meh. Age appropriate partners are overrated. Rory told me the other night that the jilted suitor who did not win her affections was surprised that she and he boyfriend weren't grounded for having confessed their mutual crush-ship to their parents. Huh? I hope as she grows older she will have lots of sex and no or very few drugs.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:44 PM
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I intend on serving as a useful object lesson in the terrible, terrible cost of drug use.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:44 PM
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256: Heh. As other kids shuffle their kids off to D.A.R.E. and Red Ribbon Week and so forth, I'll just hop on a plane with Rory: "We're heading to UnfoggeDCon, sweetie. I want you to understand what drugs do to a person." And then I'll pray she doesn't think to raise the subject of internet addiction.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:50 PM
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"Use drugs and you could end up married to someone like Blume. Wait a minute, that's not the right lesson.... What's wrong with Sifu, again?"


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:53 PM
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I hope as she grows older she will have lots of sex and no or very few drugs.

Birth control is drugs.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:54 PM
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259 is sex.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:54 PM
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"I think the main problem is that he's been on the run from that Killer Robot he built for the last five years. Presumably, if he hadn't been stoned at the time, he'd remember how to turn it off. Kids: friends don't let friends design Killer Robots stoned."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:57 PM
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To some of the questions raised above and in the OP, I'm mixed on sharing my love of certain things with my (potential) children. I was a deeply sad and depressed kid much of the time. I don't want them to like the same music, books, etc I did for the same reasons I did; I want them to be happy and not need the escape. But at least I can be comforted in knowing that if they do have those same feelings, Tori will be there for them. Or at least for the girls.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 3:59 PM
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259: A conundrum indeed. I'm sort of not a fan of pharmaceutical birth control, either, truth be told.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:03 PM
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I was just talking about this with a friend the other day. Her husband lives in absolute terror of being asked about LSD. 'Pot's easy, he says -- I can just say it makes you stupid. But tripping . . .'


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:06 PM
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262: I'm listening to Tori right this second! Also, Little Earthquakes was the soundtrack to some inaugural sexytimes in my life, so Tori will always have a special place in my heart.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:07 PM
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The children just offstage in 264 are 16 and 14.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:07 PM
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266: easy -- acid is much too expensive now.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:10 PM
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261: hey the whole point of building killer robots is so that, when they go on their killing rampage, they remember you as the only human who was good to them.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:10 PM
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267: How much is it these days? Last time I was in the market it was dirt cheap ($2-5/hit) compared to mushrooms ($20/eighth).

268: Did Blade Runner teach you nothing? Since the dawn of time, mankind and its robots have longed to kill God.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:17 PM
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269.1: I don't actually know, but for about a decade there (after the big bust in the silo) it was $10 a hit and up, when you could find it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:23 PM
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Ten bucks a hit for what, four to six hours of entertainment? It's hard to call that expensive.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:30 PM
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Eight hours, more typically. But still! It used to be two! It was practically cheaper than ramen! Or at least that's what we told ourselves!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:32 PM
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I have very fond memories of my one acid trip ever. I keep on meaning to buy some again sometime, maybe when the kids are in college.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:33 PM
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I have very fond memories of most of mine. Try acid, kids! It's totally worth it!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:35 PM
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Being lazy, cheap, anti-social, and chicken about violating the law makes it really hard to abuse interesting drugs.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:36 PM
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I feel like it's taken me pretty far, actually.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:38 PM
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275: Maybe you could pay a surrogate to do it for you. Or read Unfogged.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:39 PM
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Not that I know you all that well, but I don't think you really measure up to my standards of anti-social or chicken. Lazy and cheap? 272 does imply that you're doing well for yourself on the cheap front, at least.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:41 PM
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275: You mean "use" interesting drugs, right? A hit of acid once every ten years isn't abuse. Just saying. Anyway, mushrooms are better, so go for that if you decide to go for something.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:44 PM
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On the anti-social front, it's all a clever trick. The hacker scene and DJing are both expertly designed to make profoundly anti-social people enjoy parties. I'm pretty chicken, too. None of this stuff is very dangerous -- if I'd ever come face to face with e.g. a remotely violent or gangster-y seeming drug dealer, I would have been the fuck out of there so fast. The drug-taking world I've been around is pretty much nerds all the way down. As far as legal jeopardy, eh, you know, we (white) small fry, sitting in our comfortable suburban homes with our dorky music... I'm not sure we rate.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:45 PM
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Further to 279, you can also regulate your amount of intake, with mushrooms. Which is good.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:46 PM
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I'm not a fan of mushrooms. They're okay sometimes, like when you're outside someplace beautiful at dawn, but mushrooms indoors? Ugh. And stay away from bathroom mirrors.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:46 PM
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I didn't even know bathroom mirrors were hallucinogenic.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:47 PM
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Boy howdy.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:48 PM
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Thirty some years ago, when I first moved to Montana, it was said that one of the species of hallucinogenic mushrooms that grows wild here was not illegal. I have no idea whether this was actually true. But you'd go to parties, and there'd be a bowl of them, alongside a bowl of honey to dip them in.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:50 PM
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I've had a hard time contemplating mushrooms ever since having been told, in Samoa, that the way to identify the hallucinogenic ones was that they were actually growing out of the cow shit. At which point, eh, reality's not that bad.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:52 PM
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282.last: AND HOW!


Posted by: OPINIONATED WILLARD | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:54 PM
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They're okay sometimes, like when you're outside someplace beautiful at dawn, but mushrooms indoors? Ugh.

Good point. It doesn't have to be dawn, but outdoors, yeah. Freedom to roam. I don't actually know what happens otherwise, but it doesn't seem right, no.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:54 PM
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Where do you think the mushrooms in the salads you'll eat over the next week come from?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 4:55 PM
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Don't know about pot and driving, but I wouldn't recommend it for biking. I once started stopping for a red light on the other side of the intersection. But it was three in the morning so no big deal, unlike the time I did a similar thing in rush hour towards the end of a long, long ride. Moral: don't ride stoned, don't ride till you're exhausted.

I'm very happy I tried acid, and that I took two tabs just to get a full experience. But I have no desire to do it again, shit lasts way too long. Though I did take half a tab once at the urging of a cute girl a year or so after that first experience.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:00 PM
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Actually, I rather like tequila.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:01 PM
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289: Sterilized growth medium. Made from cow shit, of course. But not gathered from fresh, unprocessed cow shit.

Look, I'm a city girl. Acid's made in a nice clean lab.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:02 PM
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By men who don't wash their hands after they pee.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:03 PM
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the way to identify the hallucinogenic ones is to poke them and see if they turn blue. And I vastly prefer mushrooms, if only for the comedown. Relaxed and psychically sated is way better than edgy and sleepless.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:07 PM
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You can grow mushrooms at home in a sterile medium of rice flour and vermiculite. Bonus: You might win the science fair.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:17 PM
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Don't know about pot and driving, but I wouldn't recommend it for biking.

What?!? That's the funnest thing ever!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:23 PM
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I don't pee on my fingers, Stormcrow.


Posted by: Augustus Owsley Stanley III | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:26 PM
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294 gets it right.

Funny, ruminating on the whole 'what do you tell your kids about drugs' thing: it's not just "Don't get caught." It's mostly -- and perhaps this shouldn't come from the parents -- be in a safe environment. Don't take drugs from some random person you don't know. Be in a space you're comfortable with, one that provides you an out. That might mean having a designated driver type of person, or it might just mean having the house you're staying at (or your tent, whatever) in reasonable proximity, or having your dad's (or someone's) phone number to hand if you need to get out. Overall message: don't do it unless you're comfortable with the situation.

Do we all do this? Nah, 'course not, not when we're young. It's still the right advice, and most people figure it out along the way. There are rules, in a way, about drug-taking. Things that are cool to proceed with, and things that are not.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:33 PM
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What've you got against bicycles?


Posted by: OPINIONATED ALBERT HOFFMAN | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:34 PM
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Most of that advice works pretty much the same for sex.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:34 PM
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300: But "poke them and see if they turn blue" is likely to get you detention, or worse.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:38 PM
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298 brought to you by a weird story I heard the other day about some jackass who served some poor unknowing fellow a toke off a joint laced with PCP. Jesus christ! What? You don't do that! Unacceptable!

I guess I'm worried about the unfoggedtariat's kids after all.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:39 PM
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Anyway, mushrooms are better, so go for that if you decide to go for something.

I vote the other way round on this one.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:39 PM
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297: Do you piss against the wall?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:40 PM
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300: Only outside at dawn, and avoid mirrors?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 5:43 PM
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||

A year ago, I think I would have found it completely implausible that I would currently be as disgusted and angry with Obama as I am at the moment.

|>


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:04 PM
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I swear to god there is no difference between mushrooms and acid. The variety in trips far exceeds the differences between the two, as far as I can tell.

And stay away from bathroom mirrors.

Either way, this.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:06 PM
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295: Indeed! Mail order spores are an excellent way for the lazy and anti-social to acquire fun drugs. And I'll put in another vote for shrooms over acid: a much more emotional satisfying experience, and acid lasts too long.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:07 PM
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306: I'm trying. I'm surprised by some of the things he's saying. Surprised that he even said the word "Vietnam."

He sounds apologetic. Actually.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:07 PM
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306: Actually, this isn't really to 306. But is anyone else starting to feel like the healthcare bill that's going to come out of Congress will be something that would be better off not passing, except for that fact that not passing anything would be seen as such a failure that it's not really an option?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:09 PM
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305 to 304.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:09 PM
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And mirrors are amazing while high. Also, when I was playing with lucid dreaming, I found trying to walk through them gave me a feeling much like very strong acid (though I was sober), and then woke me up.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:10 PM
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Also, I don't know what this thread is about, but to the post, the Look Who's Talking movies - or at least the first, can't remember if I saw the second - were terrible. Adventures in Babysitting was one of my favorites, but I have no particular feeling about whether or not anyone else likes it.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:11 PM
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This absolutely happened:

I was walking through a field by myself, tripping, and a rock fell out of the sky, five feet from me. I walked over to check it out, and it was a bird. It heaved a couple heavy breaths and then died.

I suppose that's easy to believe. But still! Trippy at the time!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:15 PM
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Okay, Obama's speech is starting to just hurt now. Shorter Obama: "We have to do this. We're us, I mean, this country, with this history and this power." He may be right, I don't know, but it's got to hurt to say it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:15 PM
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314: OK, well last Sunday morning I was standing under a tree in Oakland. I took a step back and a whole bunch of bird shit splattered in front of me. None got on me--it all landed 1-2 feet away. Great story, huh?


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:18 PM
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316: Hmm. No, mine's better.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:19 PM
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Oh. OK then. I'll go over to the corner and sit quietly.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:21 PM
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But is anyone else starting to feel like the healthcare bill that's going to come out of Congress will be something that would be better off not passing

Somebody been skipping my comments again?

(Waves hands, becomes invisible)

Mushrooms and buttons had a little too much (and static) depth-perception effect relative to other hallucinations;since my focus was on music, I liked acid. I can understand a certain comfort and lesser anxiety in the predictability of the organic drugs. Synthetic mescaline was more like acid. Horse tranquilizer was uglified THC, with violent paranoia.

This thread was like a contact-high. Thanks all, keep it up.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:23 PM
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I was at a rock climbing activity but was not actually rock climbing at the time when I tripped over something and fell on the top of the rock upon which we were climbing. I rolled a bit and stopped against a tree at the edge of the rock. I ended up with a fractured wrist, which was a lot better than falling 20-30 feet onto the ground.

(The instructors were in total denial. I kept saying the wrist was broken and they kept calling it a sprain. It was the last day of the week-long rockclimbing camp and it was traditional to go out for pizza, so we did. I ate with my wrist all wrapped up in bandages. When my grandmother picked me up at the end of the class she took one look at my unbandaged wrist and we were off to the ER. Shortly afterward, my wrist was in a cast.)


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:24 PM
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Now where did I read this today, I forget:

Bush's max combat-deployed 186,000.

Obama after Afghan surge, counting Iraq withdrawals:188,000


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:26 PM
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Somewhere, there's a bird who owes someone five dollars.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:29 PM
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320:Does anyone remember my sprained wrist? Ok fine now.

But I think I have a deviated septum or something really ugly in my left nostril. Details are gross.

Doggie slowly but steadily getting better.

Back to the Methodenstreit.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:30 PM
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Catching the news coverage of Obama's speech, I am reminded that I once had a vivid and explicit sex dream starring myself and Katie Couric. Also, in the dream, she was a gun nut.


Posted by: Aaron Burr | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:31 PM
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Doggie slowly but steadily getting better.

Yay, dog! The other dog not riling the patient up too much?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:32 PM
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(And of course, yay, sprained wrist getting better, and boo nasal difficulties. Sorry, I react to dog health problems more vividly than to people health problems.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:33 PM
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317: I've heard just about enough of your petty problems with birds dropping things. Let me tell you a story.


Posted by: Aeschylus | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:43 PM
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The post title is very appropriate for me.


Posted by: Aeschylus | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:47 PM
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Obama plans to have birds carry out strikes in Afghanistan.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:52 PM
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310: is anyone else starting to feel like the healthcare bill that's going to come out of Congress will be something that would be better off not passing

God, I hate to say this, but: why?

The CBO estimates about premiums likely rising will, at least purportedly, be offset by subsidies (at least to those with individual rather than group plans), which is ... not too bad?

What a fucking mess this all is.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:55 PM
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329: They can only hit bald spots and the Taliban wear head coverings.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 6:56 PM
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Vaguely to 306, 310, 330, and to the speech I didn't watch:

Americans have come to believe that spending government revenues on U.S. citizens here at home is usually a bad thing and should be viewed wth suspicion, but spending billions on vast social engineering projects overseas is the hallmark of patriotism and should never be questioned. This position makes no sense, but it is hard to think of a prominent U.S. leader who is making an explicit case for doing somewhat less abroad so that we can afford to build a better future here at home. Debates about foreign policy, grand strategy, and military engagement -- including the current debate over Obama's decision to add another 30,000-plus troops in Afghanistan -- tend to occur in isolation from a discussion of other priorities, as if there were no tradeoffs between what we do for others and what we are able to do for Americans here at home.

Via.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:02 PM
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Yay, dog! The other dog not riling the patient up too much?

It is a challenge, especially on walks. I use a 12 foot(M) and 3 ft leash(F), and still the female manages to get the other leash under her belly, threatening a trip & fall.

Male is mellow in the house, but frenetic on walks. He will not leave the house without her though, and they are constantly bumping noses and sides during the walks. Sharing interesting scents, circling each other and going behind me. These dogs are renowned. Legendary and beloved.

Vet told us to do 1-2 miles of brisk walk a day. This afternoon was pouring rain and 40 degrees. Took a half hour to towel them down. See vet tomorrow, expect to move up to 2-5 miles a day.

Had a moment this morning. My neighborhood has two grade schools, a middle, and a high school I can pass in my walks. Wall-to-wall rugrats and parents. The little ones I am friendly with, and young men, but adolescent girls I apparently avoid eye contact and looking at, but I wasn't aware I was doing it until a 14-yr-old said "Hi" spontaneously this morning. Somehow my projected vibes were reassuring. I liked that.

From cars and behind house windows many more people see me and the dogs than I see seeing me. I am constantly talking to the dogs. It's a little weird to be famous without seeking it.

I am avoiding. Back to Schmoller vs Menger.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:04 PM
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330: I'm thinking about the concessions on the amendments, plus assuming that what's written now is not what's going to pass. I suppose it's a question of guessing how much worse what will pass will be.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:06 PM
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I have just discovered the existence of a film called The Room by a Tommy Wiseau and am angry that no one has alerted me to its existence before. This is clearly the worst movie ever made and everyone in L.A. has known for a while now.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:07 PM
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I gotta say, at this point I'm not going to
be satisfied with any bill that doesn't include provisions for show trials and firing squads at dawn for insurance company executives and boards. Our premiums are going up 35% next year. Nothing justifies that beyond pure institutional greed.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:09 PM
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334: Ah. I haven't paid attention (yet) to the amendments on the table. That doesn't mean I'm cavalier about it, just that they just started, what, yesterday. The generally helpless feeling one has about the whole thing is a killer, that's true.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:12 PM
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Our premiums are going up 35% next year.

I feel your pain. Mine went up about that much as well, and after a lot of conversation here and there, I can't really improve matters. In light of this kind of squeeze, one's patience for gay discussion about discretionary spending decisions runs a little thin, alas.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:22 PM
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Interesting coincidence that bills are finally starting to come up for votes around the time that people are finding out just how ugly their premiums are going to be next year.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:26 PM
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There are almost certainly going to be amendments proposed that try to restrict premium increases -- starting right away. Who knows if they will pass.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:30 PM
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335: The Room is beyond bad and into its own realm of strange goodness. Loved it.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:38 PM
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Slightly off-topic, but In honor of Bob:

I've been listening to Malvina Reynolds songs tonight, and I keep thinking of Bob. For example, It Isn't Nice.

She's a great songwriter in part because she doesn't mind being confrontational, is happy to be partisan, and isn't writing for posterity.

Though her best songs certain stand up against anybody's. Bury Me In My Overalls is just a gorgeous song.

I should go write something on my own blog.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:39 PM
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341: I've been watching as many clips on YouTube as I can find. There is no end to how great these are.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:47 PM
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339: I think that is a coincidence, NPH.

340: PGD: Really? I don't hold out much hope for that, but I'm a little surprised. The fact of the matter is that insurance companies are holding the reins here. Only they oversee large enough pools of people that they can negotiate lower prices on health care costs, so we're all held hostage to them. Which is why a public option that has enough tenacity to actually attract a significant pool is essential.

Anyway -- well, okay, I'll keep my eye out for these amendments proposing controls on premium rate increases.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:49 PM
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A tiny taste.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:50 PM
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I hope if I don't manage to pay off my student loans on time, the court at least won't force me to read that other thread.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:55 PM
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The Room gets a Veronica Mars mention!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:58 PM
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is anyone else starting to feel like the healthcare bill that's going to come out of Congress will be something that would be better off not passing

Yes, definitely.

I have just discovered the existence of a film called The Room by a Tommy Wiseau and am angry that no one has alerted me to its existence before. This is clearly the worst movie ever made and everyone in L.A. has known for a while now.

Never heard of it.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 7:58 PM
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345: It really wants for the silhouettes at the bottom of the screen. Man alive.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:00 PM
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From Wikipedia:

After the film's initial run, Wiseau claims to have received "almost one hundred e-mails" thanking him for creating the film.[1] The praise encouraged him to continue showing the film once a month at the Laemmle Sunset 5 Theater in Hollywood.

The lurkers supported him in e-mail!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:02 PM
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347: Huh. I never knew what they were talking about in that scene. My first reaction was "maybe I should re-watch that episode", but then I realized which episode it is....


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:05 PM
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Oh, I remember this movie now. My roommate saw it a few months ago and was telling me about it. I can endorse this clip.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:11 PM
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351: Heh. Me neither. I was weirdly looking at the Season 3 Wikipedia page today (I have been sick for two days and watched all of Glee and then moved on to Season 3 VM). Piz and Parker. Feh.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:14 PM
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346: Seriously.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:14 PM
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"They treat me, and I don't care anymore."

These clips are amazing.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:20 PM
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Also, this interview and especially the audio clips are amazing.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:29 PM
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352: I wish I had the film knowledge to understand why that looks so bad. There's something wrong with the way the weepy acting combines with the back and forth editing, I think. But maybe good movies do that, too sometimes?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:30 PM
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It seems like it's about as interesting as a pet rock, but less successfully marketed.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:33 PM
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Now I get it. The guy is a crackpot. It's a type I know perfectly well, but I had no idea it could translate to film, and it's kind of awesome.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:39 PM
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358: What, the other thread? Naw, you must be kidding. Actually the other thread is kind of interesting. You just have to look at it the right way.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:44 PM
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No, I mean The Room.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:45 PM
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Well, I managed to crack myself up anyway. Laughing fit. Sorry, other thread! to titter at your expense. I did just update myself with respect to you, and it's interesting to hear the news.

It seems that the phrase "about as interesting as a pet rock" is hysterically funny when applied in the right places and in the right imagined voice.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:58 PM
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Let's all make our facebook stati "is about as interesting as a pet rock". You go first.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 8:59 PM
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363: Done.

And so to bed.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:04 PM
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363: Uh, do people update their facebook stati on a regular basis?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12- 1-09 9:11 PM
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I do on average daily.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 12:59 AM
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Since neither neb nor oudemia have stepped up, I'll point out that the plural of status is not stati, but status.


Posted by: U. Awl | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 5:06 AM
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Statuses

Anarchy & Revolution!


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 6:37 AM
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365: Sometimes more than once a day.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:04 AM
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Hey, can I totally and completely jack this thread with a long and complex plea for personal advice? Yeah? Cool, thanks:

My grandmother is 95 years old. About 7 or 8 years ago she moved, not entirely on her own initiative, from her apartment in Manhattan where she'd lived all her life to a retirement community in suburban St. Louis, where my dad lives. She was always a very active, very very smart woman who was working well into her 80s, and didn't take well to living in the midwest among people who she didn't think of as her peers, but her health had declined to the point where she couldn't live on her own anymore and my dad wanted her closer to him.

Obviously, her health has gotten much much worse as she's gotten older, and over Thanksgiving she was just a shadow of her former self. She couldn't walk at all, didn't eat, barely spoke--she's very old and very sick. My dad has been her primary caregiver for a long time, as she's strongly resisted moving out of her independent living situation into an assisted or "supported" living apartment in the same complex or into a nursing facility (which, honestly, is probably what she needs at this point).

Anyway, when we all got home from Thanksgiving, my dad emailed us to say that she was going into the hospital (unsurprisingly) for pneumonia and possibly some kind of gall bladder surgery, and when she gets out of the hospital she'll be moving into a different apartment on the supported living floor in her complex. This is a good idea, we think, but my dad has had a vacation planned for a long time and says he really needs a break, and so is planning to leave this weekend for two weeks in St. Maarten.

My sister called me last night to say that she didn't think someone in Grandma's fragile physical and mental state ought to be all alone in a hospital for a week or more, possibly all alone in a rehab facility, and then move, all alone, into a brand new apartment. Of course, I agreed with her. On top of being disoriented and lonely, she'll almost certainly need someone in full command of their faculties to be an effective advocate on her behalf to the doctors and nurses, etc. My dad has hired a "care manager" to oversee her transitions, but this isn't someone my grandmother knows.

We didn't want to come out and say, "Dad, we think you shouldn't go on your vacation," so instead we offered to fly back out to St. Louis to be with Grandma in the hospital. We were kind of hoping he'd say, "No, you shouldn't have to do that, I'll postpone my trip," but instead he said, "Thank you so much, here is the garage door code."

Shame on us, of course, for trying to indirectly guilt him into changing his plans. What I want to know is, does the Mineshaft agree that someone ought to be with Grandma during this two-week period? I don't want to judge my dad too harshly; he must be exhausted from dealing with her, and their relationship was fraught to begin with, but what should we do? My sister, brother, and I are currently trying to figure out if we can arrange our schedules to each spend a few days in St. Louis, but it will be a huge pain in the ass, of course--and we don't know enough about her medical situation to really be useful for anything other than moral support, assuming she's cogent enough to receive it.

Advice?


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:11 AM
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Try to get the first shift?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:17 AM
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370: Your dad undoubtedly needs the break and the vacation. If Grandma is 95, he can't be a spring chicken himself. The weight of being her primary, sound like virtually sole, caregiver must be nearly crushing. You were right not to guilt him for doing what he needs to do to care for himself. I also think you're right that Grandma shouldn't be alone. It would be great if you and your siblings can cobble together a schedule for being there. It's a huge pain in the ass, no doubt. But you'll want to have done it. To steal a line from this week's House "I'd rather you regret having gone than regret not having gone."


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:22 AM
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Yeah, no judging your dad. You're going to be him in a couple of decades, and you'll want the breaks without judgment then.

On whether you (and siblings) need to be there? My sense is yes, if you can do it at all. But it's pretty specific to your particular grandmother. Can you get the care manager on the phone and get their input?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:33 AM
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What Di said.

Also, to be perhaps unsettlingly frank about this, it's quite possible that she will not be getting out of the hospital. Pneumonia is serious in a 95-year-old, regardless of gall bladder complications and other issues that can crop up when an immune-compromised person is in the hospital.

It's hard. You have my sympathies. These things almost never come at convenient times, and often do not come at geographically or financially convenient times. But this sounds to me like a situation where in hindsight you will want to have done this much.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:36 AM
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Also, be glad you're not an only child.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:36 AM
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I'm sure you all are right. Of course, the possibility that she might not make it out of the hospital is part of the reason we wish my dad wasn't going to be vacationing for two weeks without a phone.

Argh.


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:44 AM
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Not caught up yet, but I want to endorse 298.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:46 AM
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without a phone.

Do you mean just without a cell, or is he going to be in some totally incommunicado wilderness resort? I'd think you'd need to be able to get hold of him because there's going to be stuff that only he knows, but if there's a phone in his room and he can make and receive calls, that should cover it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:47 AM
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And if he is going to be incommunicado, you might want to have a talk about the "what ifs" before he goes. There may be plans in place.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:49 AM
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378: Eh, the latter. In an emergency, we should be able to get a message to him.


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:49 AM
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376: And it might, on some level, be exactly why he is. When my friend's mom was dying a few years back, it was heartbreaking to watch him run from it. Lots of denial, avoidance. It's hard. The best I can tell you there is that it's his life to live and his choice to make. And that it's okay to share your concern with him, just couple it with lots of understanding and acceptance.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:52 AM
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Mmm. Nagging more than I have any entitlement to here, or really any certain basis that you deserve, but I'd really, really work on actually not holding the vacation against your dad -- I'm getting the feeling that you're still kind of pissed that he won't be on tap. This is more for you than for him: if something does go wrong and you want him there, you're going to be more upset and unhappy if you're holding a grudge about him being on vacation at all. You'll feel better if his absence is just the way things worked out.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 7:55 AM
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Seconding 382 here. I watched an uncle drive himself into ill health taking care of grandma. In his case, it wasn't that other help was too far away. He wouldn't let himself take a break even when the other siblings were there (which was nearly all the time). Four years later and his physical health is still gone.


Posted by: Jimmy Carter | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 8:06 AM
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381: Denial is the default American approach to death for some reason.

Also I endorse the advice Di gives.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 8:15 AM
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384.1: It's one of the traditionally recognized components of grief. Actually, recognizing that before it happens (or while it's happening) can help to avoid letting it create additional hurt. Was going through a thing recently and directed quite a bit of anger at someone I care a lot about. I am thankful now that I figured out what I was doing before it was too late to explain, apologize and make amends.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 8:24 AM
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Yeah, caregiving can be just brutally hard, and if he's been counting on this vacation it may be the only thing keeping him going. None of this stuff is necessarily fair, but it's life.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 8:28 AM
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Er, I skipped from one stage to another there in 385... Anger. Anger is another stage.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 8:29 AM
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Yeah to 382. I can completely, completely understand the feelings of "ARRGH" but the more you can do to re-cast this in your mind as just the way things worked out, and as a narrative in which you are rising to the occasion/being competent and lovely/whatever, the better I think you'll be able to feel about all of it in both the short and the long run.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 8:33 AM
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DAMMIT, DI!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 8:35 AM
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Instead of being understandably resentful, spend your time in St. Louis talking a lot of shit (on facebook and in person) about how you are essentially the best motherfucking grandson in the fucking world, and nobody can even step. You might want to make yourself a t-shirt. Also, if you and your siblings are there at the same time, you can act as each other's hype-people, standing behind each other making "big up" motions as you demolish opponents in imaginary rap battles about who is the awesomest set of grandchildren in the world, b.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 8:43 AM
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Right. This is a bit of a 'Get out of guilt free' card, both guilt about your grandmother and about your dad.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 8:52 AM
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And, while stepping up is going to suck a bit, it's kind of rewarding in its own warped way.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 9:34 AM
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You people are all better human beings than I am. (Of course there are additional family dynamics in play.) I'm going to try to focus on the practical issues--when should we be there, what information and authority do we need--and let dear old dad off the hook.

Stupid Internet conscience.


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 9:43 AM
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You people are all better human beings than I am.

Surprisingly easy when you don't have to book emergency travel halfway across the country to cover for somebody.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 9:49 AM
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393: Bottom line, emdash, The Mineshaft is behind you whatever you decide to do. Nothing about the situation is easy, and you've had a pretty demanding caregiver role yourself.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 10:08 AM
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I don't think it's at all appropriate to talk about "the mineshaft" in aggregate. Are there those lurkers dead-set against emdash and hoping for him to fail? I don't know, but we must not silence them prematurely.

Unless you were using the original analogical meaning for "mineshaft" in which case of course it's behind him. He's no primitive.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 10:14 AM
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emdash — I've alluded to this before on unfogged, but never said anything specific. My grandmother died earlier this year, having just turned 95, and I don't have any advice specific to your situation, but it certainly convinced me that I can't imagine anyone getting to 95 without a *lot* of help.

She was in remarkably good shape, she didn't have many major injuries or illnesses, she died at home, and was very much herself until the end.

At the same time, I was just thinking about how different she was at 95 than at 90. At 90 she was clearly old, and needed help, but could basically live by herself, with one person (my father) providing a lot of assistance.

By the time she died, she had been getting care through hospice for two years (I have since found out that the average is about three months, after someone contacts hospice) and had someone in the house 24 hours a day, to help her.

Obviously every situation is different and the may not apply but, looking back, all I can think is that you can't overstate how much energy it took from a number of people to support her in the last years of her life, and that I'm really grateful and proud on their behalf, that she was able to have something that was very clearly her life up until the very end.

So I'm in the camp of thinking that if your dad feels like he needs to get away for a bit, that I wouldn't second guess that too much.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 10:35 AM
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Of course there are additional family dynamics in play.

I sympathize. There's so much about the history and the situation that we can't know. When I would tell people a story like my father harassing my dying mother to get out of bed to brush her teeth when she was far too weak, they'd say, "Oh, but his wife is dying, of course he's freaking out, poor man." Well, yeah, except that he was often a selfish, controlling jerk before she got sick, too, so, no I'm not going to cut him any slack. (To be fair, he was also wonderful to my mother in many ways.)


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 10:42 AM
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I sympathize. There's so much about the history and the situation that we can't know.

True. While I'm encouraging you to do the right thing cheerfully, in your shoes, depending on which family members were involved, I'd be a cranky, sullen, pissed off, teenage mess about it. And you don't sound nearly that bad.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 10:45 AM
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you can't overstate how much energy it took from a number of people to support her in the last years of her life

This. We ran an impromptu hospice that was better than the real hospice for a few weeks earlier this year, but good lord was it ever draining, even with a lot of help.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 11:49 AM
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It is totally understandable if you actually are a cranky, sullen teenage mess about it on the inside.

I am sure you have enough capacity and graces to be cranky and sullen inside and civil and caring on the outside. Or to distribute those moods over time.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 11:53 AM
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Di gives very sound advice. But haven't you just added a pair of grandma's great-grandkin to the family? Surely they can take a couple of days each.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 12:16 PM
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Update! My uncle will be flying into town to be with her for several days, and my dad is cutting his vacation in half to only one week, leaving only about 3 days uncovered, which my sister and I have volunteered to take, assuming I can arrange childcare for the snot-nosed great-grandkin.

I feel like I ought to defend myself a bit here, though: I do know how much work it takes to sustain someone in their last weeks and months of life (I know how much care my mother needed at the end of her life), assuming that these are, indeed, Grandma's last weeks and months of life, and I certainly don't begrudge my father his vacation, given how much time and energy he's spent getting her medication right, and arranging for nurses, and taking phone calls in the middle of the night, and on and on. [... a whole bunch of rambling whining deleted ...]

I'm just relieved that someone who knows her medical history, needs, and wishes will be on the scene most of the time.


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 12:33 PM
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No need to defend. You're entitled to complain that it sucks because it does, in fact, suck.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 12:35 PM
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Yeah -- 382 as stated was really unfairly impugning your attitude; I wanted to say something softer about once you're stuck doing something, it makes it easier if you take it as inevitable, but didn't put it right.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 12:51 PM
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No worries. Let's just all hate on the NY senate instead.


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 1:13 PM
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Also, if you have an extra hour, Cahokia is nice.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12- 2-09 1:19 PM
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No good advice to add that hasn't already been said better by others, but best of luck with everything, emdash.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12- 3-09 8:09 AM
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