Re: Kids and the sex they have

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Another explanation could be poor self control and long term planning, which may or may not be correlated with things like low self esteem. If you poor self control is a direct cause, you should also see the effect in boys.

I'd like to read more, but probably won't.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:17 AM
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I bet in teenagers, self-control is not a big factor in weight so much as environment plus genetics.

At any rate, if it was due to self-control, I bet you still wouldn't see it in boys, because I bet sex-initiation is almost entirely by boys in teenagers, so it's not symmetric. A boy with low self-control successfully initiating sex is a very different thing from a girl with low self-control responding to an advance.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:22 AM
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I'd like to read more, but probably won't.

I'd like for someone else to read more, and summarize it for me.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:23 AM
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Early sex-initiation and teenage obesity probably both correlate with having parents (or a parent) who cannot control the environment at home.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:24 AM
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Possibly the boys making the advances are more persistent, as well. As in, if they're hitting on a thin girl, they've got more notions of purity and pedestals in their mind, but if they're hitting on a fat girl, they have more sense of entitlement.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:27 AM
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Stanley would have named this post, "Kids and the whoopee they have".


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:27 AM
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I should have gone with "Kids and the assholes they have".


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:28 AM
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I seem to remember the phrase "low self-esteem" being used to describe both fat girls and sluts. And yet oddly those two properties were never correlated in the teenage parlance.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:29 AM
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7: That's just the purity ring types, mostly.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:29 AM
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I still think it is likely to be parent resources, both economic and social. The article starts out talking about sex in girls under 13. Whatever else is going on when a 12 year old girl has sex, I'm fairly certain that 99% of parents would stop it if they knew about it. Just like 99% of parents would want to get their kids to eat healthy food and exercise if they could manage it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:35 AM
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Moby, sex is exercise. We just discussed this!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:36 AM
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I still think it is likely to be parent resources, both economic and social.

Yeah, I wonder if they accounted for SES status. It's a large enough study and that's obvious enough that you would think they would have.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:37 AM
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Why doesn't MSNBC actually link the study?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:38 AM
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Parents, they ain't no good. It is sad to see parents inflicting their flaws onto their kids. Luckily we're perfect, so this isn't an issue for us.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:39 AM
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14: God you're tiresome.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:47 AM
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As a teenager, I would have said that it was the popular good-looking teens that were having the most sex.

I understand the explanations and logic, but it just doesn't match up with my memories at all.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:51 AM
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And yet oddly those two properties were never correlated in the teenage parlance.

What? I presume you are being sarcastic. Is the correlation not conventional teenage wisdom?


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:52 AM
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It looks like the study hasn't been published yet, just presented at a conference to the huzzahs of all attendees. Otherwise the Medical University of South Carolina PR website would definitely tell us where it was published.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:52 AM
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I'd like for someone else to read more, and summarize it for me.

Summary: sex makes you fat.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:53 AM
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Is the correlation not conventional teenage wisdom?

You think it's conventional teenage wisdom that the heaviest girls are having the most sex? I certainly don't.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:55 AM
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re: 20

It's certainly conventional wisdom where I'm from that heavy girls are more likely to be 'easy'.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:56 AM
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16 to 17. We blamed promiscuous behavior on having low self-esteem, and of course associated obesity with low self-esteem, but didn't notice promiscuous behavior among the obese. Of course in the stats reported on MSNBC, the difference between normal-weight and obese in "has had sex at all" is much bigger than the difference between normal-weight and obese in the "with more than 3 partners" category.

It's nice to see that this presumably good study, on an attention-getting subject, only got the 3rd Prize Paper award. And 2nd Prize Paper went to "Improved Documentation Following Implementation of a Standardized Shoulder Dystocia Delivery Form". What a groundbreaking blockbuster!


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:56 AM
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16: Thinking back to high school, I'd say popular attractive kids were more likely to be in sustained public relationships where they were clearly having sex. The sort of on-again-off-again messing around outside of relationships was harder to get a good sense of, because less public, but didn't seem to have all that much to do with being high-status.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:57 AM
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It's certainly conventional wisdom where I'm from that heavy girls are more likely to be 'easy'.

I remember this sentiment, but I also remember all sorts of contradictory sentiments about fat kids never having any opportunities.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:00 AM
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I bet in teenagers, self-control is not a big factor in weight so much as environment plus genetics.

Right. I don't think I had much self-control over food. I could and did eat like a horse and not gain weight, in fact be quite skinny, because I had a fast metabolism.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:01 AM
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Sarcasm, Mitch.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:01 AM
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Maybe overweight people just like to exaggerate when it comes to sex?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:02 AM
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26: Yes, and tiresome.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:02 AM
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I imagine this result does not extend to overweight and obese teenage boys.
D'j'ya think?

Frankly, to be serious for a moment, I would be very cautious about deducing much from this correlation. Maybe if you'd done this study 30 years ago, when far fewer teenagers were obese or even overweight, I could see more simple explanations. But aren't most teenagers at least technically overweight right now? Also, I would be very surprised if there was not a sudden drop off in frequency-of-sex as you got into morbidly obese territory. Just seems to me like there are probably lots and lots of factors here, and "fat girls have sex more and sooner because of their self-esteem issues" is too facile a conclusion to make here.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:02 AM
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Portion control!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:03 AM
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Margaret Villers focuses mostly on the "reached puberty earlier" aspect of overweightness in the interview.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:03 AM
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But aren't most teenagers at least technically overweight right now?

Apparently 17% of teens were overweight in 2000. So, no.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:05 AM
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So, I agree with Natilo, but mostly because we can't see the actual paper. We have no idea what kind of controlling for common causes they might have done, and anyhow do they even make any causal claims?

Actually, never mind this comment. Am I trying to kill unfogged? Speculate away!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:07 AM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:10 AM
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32: Huh. I thought they were. But given my sample, it's not surprising I thought so.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:12 AM
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23: Yes, other than knowing that me and my friends (with one notable exception)weren't having sex, I had no idea who was having sex and how often in high school.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:13 AM
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33 cont'd: which is to say, we (you; I have no theories) can certainly talk about why teenaged girls might or might do certain things, but we should probably remember our speculation is not at this point informed by actual science.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:13 AM
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Cachet!

Sorry, pet peeve. Back to the sex talk.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:18 AM
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38: oh man, me too. The other day Halford did that and it was all I could do not to correct him, but... oh, guess I blew that. Well, Halford, you were wrong.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:21 AM
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I had a cube-mate who's pet theory was "young girls have big breasts these days because of all the hormones they put in milk."

I wonder if there is a correlation between all the crap they put in food these days, and being horny? Thus, fatter kids, who eat more junk food, and consume more milk hormones, etc, would, as a result, have a higher sex drive.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:22 AM
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39: I let that one go, too, but I couldn't do it twice.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:22 AM
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31 - yeah, if they're looking at girls who have had sex before they're 13 - the overweight ones look like they have breasts earlier.

I have to say I am constantly surprised at the huge variety in body shapes in 11/12/13 year olds. My 13 year old is about 5'7" and has a slim adult-sized body. Some of her friends still look the way they did when they were 10. And then I feel like a bit of a perv for thinking about young girls' breasts, but it's hard not to.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:28 AM
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Anyway, speculating madly with no basis in science but trying to stuff the apparent result into my previously stated strong but ill-founded opinions, I think nattarGcM's onto something by using the word 'easy'. When we've talked about teenage sex and relationships with big age differences in the past, I've been concerned about the fact that a fair amount of the sex engaged in by teenage girls is undesired in some sense: not necessarily unconsented to, but the sort of thing Caitlin Flanagan gets nostalgic about when she talks about girls in her generation having sex because they thought it would make their boyfriends love them, rather than because they wanted to. Or even situations short of rape, but involving a certain amount of bullying.

And that sort of thing, i.e. vulnerability to bullying, particularly for very young girls, seems as if it would have a lot to do with low social status, which also seems as if it would be correlated with overweight and obesity. It'd be interesting to see further research on whether low social status, if it could be directly measured, showed up as increased levels of early and unprotected sex.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:30 AM
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Cachet

I was corrected on this recently in an email conversation with an Unfoggeteer and smacked my forehead in shame.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:30 AM
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I'm just going to go ahead and ask it: Are overweight teenage girls habitually misspelling "cachet", and not being corrected on it? Would it help if they were all issued a sachet of sweet-smelling herbs on the first day of 7th grade?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:34 AM
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Overweight girls are to be given a satchel of herbs.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:37 AM
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I assume we all agree that unprotected sex is a hallmark of an unhealthy situation

Of course there are situations when unprotected sex is the result of coercion or an outcome of low self esteem, but sometimes it's just... something that happens. I've had a lot of (some? occasional? no idea how to quantify this) unprotected sex in my time, and though of course I knew it was Wrong, Stupid, Dangerous, etc etc at the time, I still did it. I can respect people who never ever ever do it, but I was never one of those people.
Are things different when we're talking exclusively about teenagers?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:41 AM
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47: I was thinking this very thing, but was unsure whether heebie meant that unprotected sex was ipso facto "unhealthy" insofar as one is running all sorts of risks to one's health, or whether she meant (and "hallmark" lends weight to this conclusion, I guess) that having unsafe sex is the kind of thing one who is in an unhealthy and dangerous headspace does, and thus is a sign of said all around bad situation.

So if the former, sure, I guess, but if the latter, well, no. I've done it all sorts of times and while it was surely a sign of thoughtlessness, it didn't indicated any kind of pattern of coercion or low self-esteem or whatever. Kind of the opposite.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:49 AM
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Speaking of cachet, I remember on numerous occasions back during the early months of the Iraq invasion hearing both US military personnel and news presenters saying that a "cachet of weapons" had been discovered/captured/etc. So clearly cache/caché/cachet cause a lot of problems and need to be eliminated from school curriculums.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:49 AM
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Well, there's such a normative message out there about having protected sex. I assume when sex is new, a kid would feel more uncomfortable about it being unprotected on top of that.

So yeah, I think I would call it specific to teenagers. When the novelty has worn off sex and someone's owning the entire situation, and they have unprotected sex: eh. It happens.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:49 AM
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-d.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:50 AM
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49: yes! Me too! It still bothers me!

I believe that's actually the standard military pronunciation. Gah!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:51 AM
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I've had unprotected sex without feeling upset about it, but only in my 20s and beyond. I think as a teenager I would have been way more uncomfortable with it.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:51 AM
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whether she meant (and "hallmark" lends weight to this conclusion, I guess) that having unsafe sex is the kind of thing one who is in an unhealthy and dangerous headspace does, and thus is a sign of said all around bad situation.

I think I mean that, when combined with being young, unprotected sex is a hallmark of not fully owning a situation. Like, it's happening to you rather than you having fully participated.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:53 AM
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I'd tend to think that some unprotected sex ever wouldn't necessarily mean much (other than that it's a bad idea from a disease/pregnancy point of view, but not diagnostic of other emotional or social problems), but that there's probably some relationship between higher rates of unprotected sex and emotional/social problems. Maybe?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:55 AM
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I believe that's actually the standard military pronunciation. Gah!

They're just saying "caché". "Treasure trove" should be "trové" too.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:56 AM
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I haven't much to say here and am only commenting t pass the time while my wife argues with a physicist about some particular ontological implication of quantum field theory.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:57 AM
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56: Well, it would have to be "trouvé."


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:59 AM
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58: Mais non! Ancien français!


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:01 AM
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57: For some professional purpose, or just for the heck of it? In either case, I'm impressed.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:01 AM
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I feel like a bit of a perv for thinking about young girls' breasts, but it's hard not to.

Ain't *that* the truth.

when combined with being young, unprotected sex is a hallmark of not fully owning a situation

I'm going to disagree with this. I mean, it *can* mean that, but I think to make that a blanket statement is projecting adult sensibilities onto adolescents. Teenagers do all sorts of unwise, potentially dangerous things just because teenagers are notoriously bad at risk/benefit analysis and impulse control.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:05 AM
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60: The former, but also the latter.

Blah blah blah state spaces blah composition blah fundamentality blah Hilbert blah mereological blah. I'm hungry.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:07 AM
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Obviously, unprotected sex is not a Good Idea, but IME, it's more usually an issue of lack of planning to have condoms around than anything else.

On the self-esteem question, that's something that's been bugging me ever since I first became overweight, back in 3rd grade. It seems like adults tend to trot out "low self-esteem" as this blanket diagnosis for most problems in kids' lives, mostly as a way to assuage their own guilt and fear and discomfort. When I got fat, "low self-esteem" was not my problem. Having an alcoholic father who worked 3 jobs and a mother with untreated major depressive episodes and being at a new school where I had no pre-existing friends and the teacher was always hassling me -- THOSE were my problems. The low self-esteem followed after the obesity.

What's even more annoying, speaking from the point of view of the diagnosed, is that all the self-esteem boosting crap they try to lay on you is obviously just shuck. I was a fat kid, not a stupid kid. When people are winding you up just to ameliorate their own feelings of shame and inadequacy, it's usually pretty fucking obvious, even to an 8 year-old. And it tends to make you even more angry and upset. By contrast, when adults actually take the time to get to know you as a person, and actually like you for your own sake, and not because of their altruistic narrative about themselves, that's also obvious, and it really means a lot.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:07 AM
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. Teenagers do all sorts of unwise, potentially dangerous things just because teenagers are notoriously bad at risk/benefit analysis and impulse control.

But this doesn't imply rates of unprotected sex should be any higher among fat girls, just that it'd be higher among teenagers as a whole.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:12 AM
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is that all the self-esteem boosting crap they try to lay on you is obviously just shuck. I was a fat kid, not a stupid kid. When people are winding you up just to ameliorate their own feelings of shame and inadequacy, it's usually pretty fucking obvious, even to an 8 year-old. And it tends to make you even more angry and upset.

This is completely true.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:14 AM
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38, 39: Standards are slipping around here. Either that, or nosflow's on vacation.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:17 AM
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||

Gregg Easterbrook on the Deepwater Horizon spill:

The recent history of serious environmental events is that as they occur, their significance is drastically exaggerated in media and political commentary: then little attention is paid when supposedly "destroyed" areas recover rapidly. . .If similar past events are a guide, the spill will do less total damage than now expected, while recovery will happen faster than expected.

The recent history of serious environmental events is that Gregg Easterbrook always writes this ridiculous article.

|>


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:17 AM
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67 was I.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:19 AM
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53: I should *hope* you don't feel upset about having conceived HP...


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:22 AM
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Well, to be fair to Mr. Easterbook, Bhopal India is a lovely, unspoiled ecosystem full of healthy, happy people these days.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:22 AM
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vulnerability to bullying, particularly for very young girls, seems as if it would have a lot to do with low social status, which also seems as if it would be correlated with overweight and obesity.

Sports participation for girls is good for both those conditions (vulnerability to bullying and overweight), so far as I can see.

Is there anything Midnight Basketball can't fix? No. No there is not.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:26 AM
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I haven't much to say here and am only commenting t pass the time while my wife argues with a physicist about some particular ontological implication of quantum field theory.

I am aware of someone who would probably be extremely interested in this conversation (who isn't your wife and most likely isn't known to her).


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:26 AM
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it'd be higher among teenagers as a whole

Which it is! By a lot! That's it's even higher among heavier girls shows that some amount of that is clearly going on, but their sex lives aren't going to be entirely dissimilar from their peers either.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:26 AM
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72: But who is commenting from INSIDE YOUR HOUSE!


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:26 AM
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I wish she had ever been in a position to comment from inside my house.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:27 AM
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73: Can we get comity on unprotected sex not being diagnostic of anything in any particular instance, but higher rates of unprotected sex among some identifiable demographic maybe meaning something?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:32 AM
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43 is close to my understanding, with the proviso that for some young women aggressively pursuing sex is a way to shore up self esteem. I've had this explained to me by a woman who had pursued me successfully. She made it clear that I was not chosen at random, but also that a big part of what she wanted was validation of her desirability. There is a completely unambiguous message about ones' attractiveness when confronted with a hard cock.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:37 AM
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Yeah, that too. AWB had a depressing story about a college friend who would pursue random sex with guys who disliked her for reasons along those lines, which sounded way fucked up, but like a more extreme version of stuff I've certainly seen.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:39 AM
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I think a lot of this could be due to social class. Poorer girls will tend to be fatter and may tend to have earlier and less protected sex. I don't think it is a matter of self-control as much as comparing yourself to your relevant peer group.


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:40 AM
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72: I'm glad such a person exists, but if her joining the conversation means lunch will be further delayed I am against it. Blah blah spatiotemporal region blah blah supervenience blah fundamental constituent blah.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:40 AM
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Surely a good philosopher's helpmeet would go round up some nourishing snacks to be provided to the discussants, so as to sustain them in their pursuit of knowledge.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:42 AM
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Knowledge is best pursued by curtailing conversations centering on ontology as swiftly as possible.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:45 AM
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There is a completely unambiguous message about ones' attractiveness when confronted with a hard cock.

TRUE, BUT THAT DOESN'T STOP ME FROM COMING BACK!


Posted by: OP/N/ONATED MOLE | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:46 AM
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Knowledge is best pursued by curtailing conversations centering on ontology as swiftly as possible

I don't know. This conversation is certainly clarifying some things for me.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:49 AM
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@71

Except that if you're really bad at sports, that's not exactly going to help with the self-esteem part.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:50 AM
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Can we get comity on unprotected sex not being diagnostic of anything in any particular instance, but higher rates of unprotected sex among some identifiable demographic maybe meaning something?

This wasn't directed to me, but sure, comity on that.

As someone who came to sexual maturity during the 80s, it freaks me out that the younger set has unprotected sex with any kind of frequency at all. I was raised in the AIDS awareness generation. In my experience, people younger than myself are indeed more sanguine* about sexually transmitted disease than I am. This attitude in the 20s and 30s-something set may filter down to teens.

* not quite the word I want


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:50 AM
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There is a completely unambiguous message about ones' attractiveness when confronted with a hard cock.

That you're good enough for now?


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:51 AM
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Discussing ontology without drugs is a sure sign of madness.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:52 AM
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87: No, that you're just a collection of warm holes.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:52 AM
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The word "ontological" was in the title of CA's senior thesis, but the word "desire(s)" was in the title of his dissertation. Personally, I think it's an improvement, but neb and Gonerill likely disagree!
As for being a philosopher's helpmeet, my advice is to roll your eyes and check your watch a bunch. Maybe send a few texts (oh! you're kind of doing that one!).


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:54 AM
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86: Same here - I delayed first intercourse by several years due to fear of HIV. I don't like condoms, but I dislike chronic diseases even more.

87: Good enough for now is better than not good enough for now.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:56 AM
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"ontological", right? Not "(onto)logical"? I hope.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:57 AM
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Maybe send a few texts (oh! you're kind of doing that one!).

Only if Gonerill's wife is occasionally interrupting her conversation to read unfogged … ? I would be surprised.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:59 AM
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"(onto)logical desire(s): on being sexual(ly)".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 11:59 AM
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93: I didn't mean send texts to his wife, silly. I meant sending texts and otherwise dicking around with one's cellphone to signal boredom. He can do that with his computer too, I guess. As long as it's clear he's not, like, writing anything useful.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:00 PM
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90: And now he's working a book to be titled "The Ontology of Desire"?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:01 PM
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86: Me too, particularly with the 'more information than is romantic' approach of Reed College.

||
The upgrade of Aquamacs to emacs 23 completely foozled my keybindings. Same .emacs file as the previous major build, but nothing worked. Crumb! I had heard there was some clever task-capture append-mode thingy that would work!
|>


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:01 PM
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The upgrade of Aquamacs to emacs 23 completely foozled my keybindings.

Man, emacs on OS X bugs me. I use whatever Seiji Whoever's OS X emacs package is, and it's annoyingly unusable from the commandline in various ways that it took me a while to circumvent. ("emacs" is aliased to a python script:

import os, subprocess, sys

takesnonfilearg = "-u --user --terminal --funcall --eval --execute -L --directory --title --name -t -f --border-width --internal-border -g --font -fn -bw -ib --geometry -fg -bg -bd -cr -ms -lsp --line-spacing --foreground-color --background-color --border-color --cursor-color --mouse-color -d -- display -nw".split()

wdir = os.getcwd()
av = ["./Emacs"]
nextunchanged = False
for a in sys.argv[1:]:
    if a[0] in '-+/' or nextunchanged:
         av.append(a)
         if a in takesnonfilearg:
             nextunchanged = True
         else:
             nextunchanged = False
         else:
             av.append(os.path.join(wdir, a))
os.chdir("/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOs")
subprocess.call(av)

Because otherwise you get all sorts of weird errors about not being able to find files.)


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:06 PM
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"(t((onto))logical desire(s): slash, fanfic and the mythos of the american west."


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:06 PM
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Carbon Emacs, apparently.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:07 PM
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99 made me L(augh) O(ut) L(oud).


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:07 PM
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Why are there two sets of parentheses around "onto"? Are you giving it a hug? Also, the leftmost left paren hasn't been closed!

)


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:08 PM
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102: It's some super hermetic unwritten theory into which we have not yet chosen to initiate you.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:11 PM
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104

How rude.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:11 PM
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I delayed first intercourse by several years due to fear of HIV. I don't like condoms, but I dislike chronic diseases even more.

Free and readily available STD testing for everyone! Now! So that we might proceed to have sex sans condom!

I expect to be running for public office any day now, people, so keep my opinions under your hat.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:12 PM
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104: It's for your own good.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:12 PM
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87: Yeah, I was going to debate the 'completely unambiguous' aspect of that one, but was distracted by a fragment of actual work.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:13 PM
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From time to time I want to make fun of contemporary academic titling practices, but then I think of Die Geburt der Tragödie, Oder: Griechentum und Pessimismus or Ecce homo: Wie man wird, was man ist, and, I mean, come on.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:13 PM
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If I keep typing a right parenthesis will you be compelled to keep providing its complement? Like the possibly apocryphal composer whose son would come home drunk in the middle fo the night and play a chord in need of resolution on the piano, forcing Ludwig van Apocryphal to get up and play the appropriate notes? (Bad example, I guess, on account of deafness.

Oh, I relent.)


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:14 PM
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And here I thought 99 was lisp.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:15 PM
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It would be too late to provide a complement for a right parenthesis. An rparen's complement needs to precede it, after all.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:16 PM
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110: I was about to follow 111 up by saying that I fortunately have on my person at all times a punch card full of left parentheses.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:16 PM
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108: Pretty much no instance of contemporary academic excess (I will write a morality fable! I will talk about desire by way of my adulterous affair with a famous writer!) can hold a candle to poor old Fritz.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:18 PM
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Good point.)


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:18 PM
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keep my opinions under your hat

The unsafest sex of all.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:18 PM
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If I keep typing a right parenthesis will you be compelled to keep providing its complement?

Beats kneeling and chugging a warm Mango Smirnoff Ice any day.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:23 PM
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YOU JUST GOT MISPUNCTUATED, BRO!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:32 PM
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38-39: what the fuck. First of all, all grammar/usage/spellling bitchery must be confined to mistakes made within a single given thread. NO CROSS THREADING. Second, since I mostly comment from the iPhone and my thumbs are fat, I have been granted a pemanent hardship exemption from the silly usage "rules" that you lesser beings must contend with. Third, pistols at dawn, you fuckers.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:38 PM
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I read 116 as
Breast kneeling and chugging
and didn't understand the non sequitur
end of the sentence.

Already said, but both the song and image are great, so:
heaviest girls are having the most sex?

45 is excellent.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:43 PM
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11& -- Despite appearances, I'm not drunk. Just going slowly insane. Also up all night prepapring for a Court appearance that I won today. OH YEAH YOU DONT GET TO TAKE HOLLYWOOD'S MONEY DICKHEAD. And now I should probably get some rest.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:44 PM
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There's a better way than pistols at dawn


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:45 PM
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113: "[P]oor old Fritz" is right, but sometimes I think Kierkegaard's "thou shalt suffer the dialectic with me" style is the inspiration for a lot of dissertatory typing.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:46 PM
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120: Congrats!

Sellout.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:46 PM
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121 is flabbergasting.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:50 PM
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121: Holy cow! That's one seriously heterosexual manly man's man! Touch his cock with anything but your own cock and he will BF you! In the M!

I don't know what BF in the M means, but I have no doubt that it is extremely heterosexual. Extremely.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:56 PM
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121 is flabbergasting. Sometimes one sighs that there is nothing new under the sun. But the world is vast and varied, full of potential strangeness.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:56 PM
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Bedazzler? Where in that scenario is there time for bedazzling?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:58 PM
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You know what 121 is? Achewood has escaped out onto Craigslist.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:59 PM
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The plan is to use the bedazzler to fire jewels at hot naked chicks' bodies during the fracas.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 12:59 PM
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I've lost the link, but there was a nice exploration of craigslist missed connections. Who are those written for? It actually seems like a prose form not that different from this place, except that the pseudonyms there are always disposable.

Resisting the urge to go presidential, please accept my most distinguished sentiments....


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:02 PM
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You can tell that dude's gay, despite his protestations to the contrary, because he didn't say "no homo".


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:07 PM
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The only thing I ever wrote on Craigslist was a missed connection. Someone really seemed like she knew me. She stared at me for like 15 seconds as I was walking by her and her friends. I got curious about it. But of course no one responded to my posting.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:07 PM
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I don't often click on links here, because I'm stubborn like that, but 121 is excellent.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:09 PM
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http://www.explosm.net/comics/2060/


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:11 PM
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You know, I used to read the "missed connections" (don't think it was called that) on the last page of the Chicago Reader every week because I was *sure* I was going to be in it at some point. Just, you know, in general. That's fairly insane. The closest I ever came to being involved in an actual missed connection involved my el ride to work each morning. Me and this adorable punk rock boy would make eyes at each other each day on our respective trips to work. Nothing was going to come of this, it was my jokey "conceptual romance" [he paid more attention to his today than me!], but it was my way (and his as well, I'd suspect) of making my morning commute more eventful. In any event! one day at work a colleague of mine showed me pictures of her son the artist, and his crazy look-at-me-I'm-a-22yo-artist Christmas tree. YUP. There was adorable punk rock boy. That kind of took the fun out of it.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:14 PM
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I had a similar deep relationship with the back page of the Village Voice when I was in high school.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:15 PM
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137
Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:17 PM
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138

How old are you? There was a reader personals section with persistent pseudonyms exchanging running jokes. 1982 +/- two years or so. It seemed so sophisticated.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:17 PM
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@98:
for a in sys.argv[1:]:
if a[0] in '-+/' or nextunchanged:
av.append(a)
if a in takesnonfilearg:
nextunchanged = True
else:
nextunchanged = False
else:
av.append(os.path.join(wdir, a))

Won't the nesting on that last "else:" cause an error? It should be moved over to match the 'if a[0] statement, no? (Disclaimer: I don't really know python.)


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:18 PM
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Stupid [code] tag didn't work.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:18 PM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:21 PM
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Missed connections are everywhere, aren't they? You pile them up. Some are more fraught -- those are "the one who got away" kinds of things -- and others are just the brief flash that you might have pursued, and you both knew that, but you didn't.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:22 PM
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138: The VV had a year-long dialog on it's back page missed-connectionsesque ad section between Melvin and Nannette. It started out when one of them gave the other a ride home from a party, and the one hitching the ride left their Anne Murray albums in the trunk of the car, and advertised to get them back. Then there was another ad about something else, then they were clearly dating, then putting up ads about milestones in the relationship, then he left her at a Halloween party for some girl in a turnip costume, and it trailed off with a sad ad asking whether the Snowbird would ever sing for them again. (This is all very vaguely remembered from the late eighties. I'd swear to Melvin and Nannette being the names, and the albums were definitely Anne Murray, and the costume was definitely some root vegetable, but I could have everything else confused.)

It had to have been fiction, but there wasn't anything other than the internal weirdness of it that made that clear. Just a yearlong series of ads at several-week intervals.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:24 PM
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Nannette s/b Nanette. I think.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:26 PM
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144 s/b "No, no: 'Nanette'"


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:27 PM
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@139, the answer to my own question seems to be "Yes".

[Trying out script]

Hey, thanks neb. Now I can do emacs -nw from the terminal and have it use all the doodads properly. Nice.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:28 PM
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145: Zing!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:28 PM
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It should be moved over to match the 'if a[0] statement, no?

Haha, yes it should, and in fact in the real source code it is. It isn't like that in the comment because I had to indent by hand by copy/pasting  s and I lost track.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:29 PM
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146: Still starving?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:29 PM
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Unfogged's comment box: a less than optimal python editor.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:31 PM
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Oh, and the " -nw" in the line setting the value of "takesnonfilearg" should actually be removed, since the -nw commandline option takes no argument at all. It should end with "--display".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:31 PM
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Sure, missed connections are like the shape of the air, especially under the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.

I was interested in the prose forum named "missed connections" more than particular memories

Looking for it turned up an archive of Jonathan Rosenbaum's usually very good film reviews.

Other reading- exploring a possible explanation for ubiquitous transcription


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:32 PM
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146: Still starving?

Much better now, thanks.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:38 PM
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Melvin and Nanette, the Agroforest Landowners of the Year?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 1:59 PM
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121 is amazing. "MJ" is "Michael Jackson", I guess? I love how one needs a bachelor's or equivalent experience. And how Googling "BF you in the M" turns up the ad and people saying "oh my god this is hilarious, but what does 'BF you in the M' mean?"


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 2:47 PM
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Butt Fuck you in the Mouth, sillies. And not in the good buttsex way, either.


Posted by: Michael Jackson | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 2:49 PM
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Sort-of relevant. The picture sums up my feelings exactly.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 2:53 PM
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And now he's working a book to be titled "The Ontology of Desire"?

"The Ontology of Desire, the Desire of Ontology". My hope is that one day academic titling conventions will converge will lolspeak. "My Desire: Let Me Show You It".


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 3:33 PM
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Re the VV ads, there was a guy doing that on the Prague tram system for about a year. He'd had some argument with his bird and he kept writing her these letters and taping them up on the tramcar she took to work every morning. By the time they got back together again half of Prague was rooting for him.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 3:33 PM
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with, that is.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 3:34 PM
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clew, did you go to Reed?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 3:38 PM
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And were you a little, um, heftier than the others? Just askin'.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 4:51 PM
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159: "I can haz Heidegger?"


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 4:57 PM
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I meant 158.


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 4:58 PM
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Why, yes, Jesus McQueen. And I suddenly feel as though I remember you too, TLL.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 4:59 PM
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When were you there, if you don't mind my asking?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 5:02 PM
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121 is like nothing I've ever read before on the internets (or anywhere else). I had to think about what that abbreviation might mean, it was not immediately apparent to me.

Jesus christ, there are some strange people out there.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 5:26 PM
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tramcar she took to work every morning

which line?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 7:01 PM
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Like all of us, I was there just before the Old Reed completely fell apart. In my case, '86-'90, although not really in '89.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 8:10 PM
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121: I've got laser tag too.

This is what makes it art.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:10 PM
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Ah, just missed you.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:26 PM
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171 to 169 or 170, whichever you prefer.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:27 PM
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Der Spiegel on r our kids being destroyed by texting and porn. Just to show that sexual panics aren't limited to the puritan US. Them kids these days, they watch this porn, hear about strange perverted things like sixty-nine, bondage, and anal (all completely unheard of by us kids twenty years ago). At the end of the long article they cite researchers as saying the internet doesn't seem to have changed the behaviour of teens in terms of age of first sex or number of partners. But, but, but... there's that seventeen year old girl from the fucked up family who has had dozens of partners who started watching porn at age nine, so there.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 9:57 PM
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I thought all German porn involved fecal matter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:00 PM
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174 Another person traumatized by having wandered into one of those big downtown German porn shops. (Kaviar, it's not just for the Russians)


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:08 PM
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I miss Emerson (speaking of Reed).


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-27-10 10:36 PM
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168: IIRC it was one of the lines from Dejvicka, probably the one that goes north up to Suchdol. This was about ten years ago.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 3:00 AM
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176. John's more in evidence than he has been for a while, if you look for him. His new(ish) 'culture' blog is rather entertaining.


Posted by: OFE | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 4:19 AM
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Criminologist serial killer in my hometown. Blogging friend of mine met him at an academic conference.

He was researching the under-estimation of the murder rate in the 19th century.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 5:04 AM
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Emerson's also pretty active on Facebook.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 5:32 AM
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181

Sort of relevant: Bad sex stories.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 7:33 AM
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181: I have already seen commenters all over the interwebz making champagne bottle jokes, because of that piece.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 7:37 AM
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Arne Duncan just announced the No Fat Girl F'ed in the Behind Act.

(Sorry, that's the best I could do.)


Posted by: bjk | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 7:37 AM
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178: John Emerson's media empire! Actually, I'm still in touch with him by email, but I miss his snarky blog comments.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 7:38 AM
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181: I feel no.5 could do with freeping.

(The entire feature is reminiscent of when Jezebel was worth reading.)


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 7:51 AM
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179: I saw that story last night and thought, "Whichever Vanity Fair or New Yorker writer gets their profile up first has an awesome movie deal." Or maybe they could just make "Red Riding: In the Year of Our Lord 2010."


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 7:53 AM
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181: I should have run in the other direction when the guy told me he was working on his "memoirs"

Turned out the guy had drawn written on me while I was asleep..."Welcome to the World of 'Modern Love'".

Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 8:46 AM
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179: Yow. That's totally a movie script waiting to happen. Not a movie I'm at all interested in seeing, but a movie.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 9:06 AM
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i don't really want to read the whole thread, but obesity->hormonal changes->earlier puberty->earlier sexing


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 3:43 PM
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From time to time I want to make fun of contemporary academic titling practices

Some friends and I submitted a fake alumni notice that we were collaborating on an essay for an anthology titled, I/Aye/Eye Begorrah!: An Anti-Lacanian Interrogation of the Absence of Women from Pirish Myth. (Or something like that.)

("Pirish" is an invented culture and language based on the indistinguishability of the accent affected by to indicate Irish or pirate.)

The essay itself was called "Swashbuckling Decentered."


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 4:34 PM
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Pirish" is an invented culture and language based on the indistinguishability of the accent affected by to indicate Irish or pirate

But the "pirate" accent is from Southwest England, not Ireland. All from one actor's portrayal, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Newton


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 05-28-10 4:42 PM
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An Anti-Lacanian Interrogation of the Absence of Women from Pirish Myth

ABSENCE? WHO THE HELL ARE WE, CHOPPED LIVER, BELIKE?


Posted by: OPINIONATED MARY READ AND ANNE BONNEY | Link to this comment | 05-30-10 4:03 AM
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All from one actor's portrayal, too.

Newton took too much credit for that. Treasure Island begins in south west England and all the main characters hail from that part of the world, so of course they'd talk in the regional dialects. Also, there's a long tradition, sometimes more honourable than others. Drake and Raleigh and Hawkins and Grenville all came from the south west; contemporaries noted how hard it was to understand Raleigh.


Posted by: OFE | Link to this comment | 05-30-10 4:28 AM
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Posted by: | Link to this comment | 06-12-10 9:01 PM
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