Re: Disorganized Thoughts About Bike Commuting

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Huzzah, 'Breath! The tire-pressure thing you note is pretty key. I didn't catch onto that until I met a friend who checks her tire pressure every day. More than I'll ever think to do, but she's got a point; saggy rubber air sacs can absorb a ridiculous amount of energy.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 6:51 AM
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Have you looked at changes in objective measures of fitness (resting heart rate, BP) rather than just whether you still get tired like you used to?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 6:58 AM
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Yay!


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:08 AM
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I check my tires almost every time I get on my bike, I run high-pressure (120psi) road tires, and when I inflate them I inflate them to slightly past the max on the assumption that they'll lose a little when I take the pump valve off. It is, indeed, very important to a satisfying cycling experience.

The size thing is pretty important, too. If I were you I'd really consider the longer seatpost and maybe a longer stem. It'll make you happier, it'll make you faster, it'll be easier on your knees and back.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:11 AM
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...saggy rubber air sacs can absorb a ridiculous amount of energy.

It's too early in the morning for pr0n.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:23 AM
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Another reason to keep your tires topped off is that underinflated tires are much more prone to flats--IME, at least.


Posted by: toops | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:32 AM
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You can really sort bikers by speed by looking at what they're wearing: I'm slower than anyone in a cycling jersey, except for people with an obvious social reason to be loafing, and counting people in ripped clothes wearing giant bike chains as belts as cycling jerseys; I'm faster than the bulk of women in work clothes, and probably better than half of men in work clothes -- in both cases that's probably not a fitness advantage, but a reluctance on their part to get sweaty. Casual, non-work/non-cycling gear wearers are variable, but often slower than work clothes.

This paragraph seems to imply that you bike in your work clothes--is that right? If so, how do you keep them... fresh?

I'm boringly repeating things I've said several times in the past, but I think I'd love to bike to work, but I've never done it because I can't seem to figure out the logistics of it. I wear a suit and tie every day, which I couldn't bike in, and I think regardless of what I wore I'd get sweaty enough that I'd want a shower, but there isn't one here.* I've considered getting a pannier for my suit** (and wearing what, exactly? not a cycling jersey, for sure) and taking baby wipes to wipe myself down in the bathroom, etc., but that seems like a significant monetary investment to try something that might not work out at all.

*Actually, I recently found out there is, in fact, a shower her, but it's for use by partners only, which strikes me as incredibly bizarre.

**How well do those work, anyway, in terms of keeping things relatively wrinkle-free? I'm skeptical, since every other product I've tried that's been advertised as a way to pack suits wrinkle-free has failed abysmally. (There were suitcases, mostly.)


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:38 AM
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Yeah, I mentioned a year or so back that I'd switched my commuting bike from knobbly-MTB/hybrid tyres to hybrid/road tyres which run about 90-95psi and the difference was night and day. Something I should have known as I did a similar change with a previous bike but I'd forgotten how dramatic the difference was. I have a track pump now and can quickly check and inflate before a ride.* Tyre pressure makes such a big difference.

Resting heart rate is also good as a measure. When I got into some regular fitness walking -- long since slacked off on -- my resting pulse dropped surprisingly quickly [down from the mid-to-high 60s to the low 50s in just a few weeks]. Similarly, when I used to bike commute regularly my average speed was still not great -- 12 -14 mph, iirc, with some mild hills and traffic but nothing steep -- but the top speed I could get up to on the flat increased quite a bit over a few months. So I suspect the low average time was partly just due to the logistics of traffic and some shared bike/pedestrian paths.

I bet you'd find if you'd checked your speed on a nice flat route then and checked it now, you'd have improved a lot.

* if I could actually be bothered to dig my bike out of the inconvenient storage at our new place.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:40 AM
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about how fast you are compared to others: it's hard to compare yourself to the other cyclists you randomly see on your commute because (as you note) you don't know exactly what they're doing out there. you don't know how long they've been riding or how long they're going to be riding. i used to congratulate myself on dropping groups of road cyclists on my commute until i realized they were at the end of a 100 mile ride and i was going home from work.

as for the tire pressure thing: bike tubes are made of butyl, which is very slightly porous to air. all butyl tubes very slowly go flat over time, and topping up once a month (depending on the quality of the tube) is probably about average for commuters.

and you should definitely go get the longer seat post. while you're at the bike shop, ask them what they can do about the handlebars - it's possible moving them forward is a simple adjustment, and even if it isn't, installing a longer stem isn't too expensive.


Posted by: johnston | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:41 AM
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And I have sympathies with Brock. I can wear what I like to work, so I can cram whatever change of clothes into a little backpack and not worry about looking smart. That makes changing into non-sweaty clothes easier -- not changing wouldn't be an option since I sweat crazy amounts when exercising -- but it'd still be fantastic if my work place had an actual shower rather than forcing me to wash standing up at a sink.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:43 AM
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ttaM,

Couldn't you just bike a bit slower? You don't live some where warm, so it should be possible to control the sweat by controlling your pace.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:48 AM
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7: you don't have any place at work you can stash a suit?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:48 AM
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I'm excited for the time of year where I can bike to work without getting excruciatingly sweaty, again.

For a while last winter I was bringing a spare pair of pants, as (even with fenders) my cuffs would get drenched on the way in. But mostly I don't have to worry about it, since I'm a slovenly techie.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:50 AM
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my cuffs would get drenched on the way in

There's a very bad joke about bondage and fisting somewhere in the clause.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:52 AM
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7: Join a gym near the office where you can shower and change. Get a locker there you can keep the suits in. If you can't do that, keep the suits in your office and change when you arrive and again when you leave. Never take the suits all the way to or from home on a bicycle.


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:54 AM
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if you like your bike but wish it was an inch or two longer, you can probably get a longer stem (the tube that your handlebars are mounted on).

i used to ride a "criterion" style Cannondale (short frame, intended to facilitate quick turns in heavy (bike) traffic. but, since i'm 6' tall, and like to really stretch out horizontally, i got a stem with close to 2" of forward extension. this made a huge difference.


Posted by: cleek | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:56 AM
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I'm sure I could find a place to stash a suit at work. How exactly does that help?

(Unless I just attempted to move my entire professional closet to work, which would actually be a huge help w/r/t the logistics, now that I think about it, although I'm not sure I have any place to keep it all. I could considering buying a free-standing closet, and putting it in my office, but that would be weird.)

I sweat like a beast when I exercise, no matter the weather. And I sweat like a beast when I'm outside in the summer for more than about 90 seconds, even if I'm not exercising.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:57 AM
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17 to 12. 15 is something I've been considering (the gym part), although it feels like a waste of money to join a gym just for the shower.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:00 AM
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Is there a parking garage where you could pay some small amount to safely stow a road bike during the workday? I am not big on fancy equipment, but 10 miles is far enough for a road bike IMO. I ride a 25-year old frame about the same distance as you for a commute a few times a week, cheapo wheels, and do my own maintenance. When one road bike died, I was surprised at how much nicer this one (not much lighter but a little more rigid, butted joints) felt, similarly surprised at a 3% speed improvement from a slightly lighter, possibly more rigid wheel.

I would suggest trying both a road bike (700mm narrow wheels) as well as a hybrid if this makes any sense for you, as they feel really different to ride. Imo, if you're not curb-hopping or coping with lots of very sharp turns, road bikes' better speed on straightaways makes for a much more pleasant ride. There are great secondhand bikes to be had for $300. Road bikes get flats though, much reduced by a kevlar tire for $40-$60.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:00 AM
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I actually just bought a bike a couple of months ago (after having not been on a bike since high school), hoping to start riding to work once or twice a week soon. I work in Big Government Building which has an employee gym, and a $5/month locker-room only membership which solves the showering problem.

The two things that have surprised me the most about biking:
1) How out of shape I am for biking, despite a weekly gym routine and lots of walking, due to not owning a car. Biking has really been a workout for me.

2) How ridiculously fun it is. I always went to the gym because I knew I was supposed to, but hated every minute of it. I was pretty sure my body just didn't know what a "runner's high" was. But biking? Tons of fun! And improves my mood like you wouldn't believe. I've officially ditched the gym and just hop on my bike every chance I get.

So, lesson for people who hate the gym: try a bike! Good workout, no gym misery!


Posted by: Roadrunner | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:03 AM
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Brock, you can bring shirts in a pannier without the creases being too bad but you can't bring a suit in the same way. How many suits do you have? Just decide on one or two to wear for a given week. Drive in on Monday and leave them in the office (you can also leave a stack of shirts if you like!) Bike Tue-Thurs. Drive home on Friday with your suit(s). Repeat.

Wash at a sink. This is why disabled toilets were invented. It's not a nice as a shower but a heck of a lot quicker.

Wear mountain bike shorts -- they have the comfort of bike shorts without the dork factor -- and a t-shirt.

HTH!


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:07 AM
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I laughed the other day at a local tire shop's TV ad offering to fill your tires with nitrogen, only to learn that apparently it's popular with (1) Nascar dorks (2) super-serious cyclist dorks. Nascar dorks and biking dorks: together at last!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:09 AM
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(700mm narrow wheels)

700c wheels, 622mm actual diameter rims. For reasons that I've never really understood.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:09 AM
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22: Por que?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:11 AM
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re: 11

I'd need to be biking at a very slow speed not to arrive a bit sweaty. Slower than would feel natural, although I suppose it might be pleasant cruising along sometimes. Right now I commute 50+ miles each way, so cycling isn't really practical any more.

re: 17.last

Ditto. Less when I was thinner, but I was never someone who ever looks fresh and non-sweaty when it's hot.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:14 AM
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I'm about to start back to cycling to work again now that a couple of unrelated injuries have settled down. So I deal with the clothes issue this way: I wear a suit in work and generally I leave a couple of them hanging up in the office and change when I get in, having brought a clean top with me. I sweat a bit, mostly after I arrive so I wait about 10 minutes and mop my face etc. once I cool down, then I change. I make sure to have showered that morning rather than the night before and thus the sweat seems to be clean rather than stinky and not to be a problem once cleaned off.

Of course it doesn't get what you'd call hot in Ireland although it can be quite close and heavy at times. In cooler weather I try not to dress warmly as otherwise I may overheat once I get going; better to be cold starting off.

There are still occasions where I need to bring the car and that's when I might rotate the suits and maybe bring some extra tops. My male colleague who cycles seems to do about the same - I don't know what he does about ironed shirts, but perhaps he gets them done somewhere near the office.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:15 AM
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My tires need more air about once a month, which seems very frequent to me

Haha! Road cyclists pump their tires ~4-5 times per week.

I pump my tires somewhat less often than that (maybe 1-2 times per week), but I do pay very close attention to the tire pressure. You should give your tires a pinch each morning before you ride. Pretty easy to develop a feel for your desired psi.


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:18 AM
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Drive in on Monday and leave them in the office (you can also leave a stack of shirts if you like!) Bike Tue-Thurs. Drive home on Friday with your suit(s).

Yeah, I could theoretically do something like this, but honestly I don't want to bike quite that much. I never drive--I take the bus--and hauling a stack of suits back and forth on Mondays and Fridays just so I could bike on the intervening three days seems very much not worth it. Maybe I'd feel differently if I had a very long commute, but I'm only going about 3.5 miles, so it's not even all that much I'd be gaining in terms of exercise*, so if it's not reasonably convenient to make it happen, it's probably not worth it.

* Just enough to get me drenched in sweat every day, really; not quite enough for serious exercise.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:18 AM
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Also regarding tire pressure, riding below recommended psi increases the likelihood of pinch flats, so it's not simply a speed thing.


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:20 AM
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Ok... wear a suit to the office on Monday and wear civvies on the bus home, leaving your suit in the office! Am I a genius, or what?

(You seem to have a very very low threshold for convenience. If you want to do it, you'll do it. If you don't, you'll make up excuses to stop yourself.)


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:22 AM
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I'm only going about 3.5 miles

Walk to/from work every day except Friday, when you drive and switch out clothes. Now you do not have to buy a bike or pay bus fare and you get lots of exercise. Problem solved. Next?


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:23 AM
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31: I'm about 3.1 miles from my office and I have been walking to work during the summer. Of course, some days it is too hot to walk to work without getting all sweaty.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:26 AM
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If you want to do it, you'll do it. If you don't, you'll make up excuses to stop yourself.

This is about where this conversation has landed the past several times Brock has brought it up.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:32 AM
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22: Por que?

This post gets at all the major points. Basically: bigger molecules, less water (vapor), and they do it in fucking space. No idea how common it is.

Dear Cecil:

I caught a segment on some car show about modding up your car. One of the things they mentioned was the benefit of filling your tires with nitrogen instead of air. Considering I fill my tires with air and don't have much of a problem constantly refilling them, what is the straight dope on nitrogen in car tires?

-- Dave from Massachusetts

Oh, there are plenty of benefits: (1) Cool fluorescent green valve stem caps (assuming your nitrogen vendor has any marketing savvy), which will look sharp with your spinning wheel covers. (2) Bragging rights. OK, you were behind the curve with cell phones, iPods, thong underwear, etc. Nitrogen in tires is relatively new to the mass market. Now's your chance. (3) Reduced fire danger next time you land your space shuttle or commercial aircraft, and tell me you won't sleep better knowing that.

Most tires are filled with compressed air, which when dry consists of about 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen, and 1 percent other gases by volume. Water vapor (humidity) can make up as much as 5 percent of the volume of air under worst-case conditions. Filling your tires with nitrogen mainly does two things: it eliminates moisture, and it replaces skinny oxygen molecules with fat nitrogen molecules, reducing the rate at which compressed gas diffuses through porous tire walls. That means, theoretically at least, that a tire filled with nitrogen retains optimal pressure longer, leading to more uniform tire wear and better gas mileage. The commonly quoted figure is that tires inflated to 32 psi get 3 percent better mileage than at 24 psi.

Does nitrogen make any practical difference? You couldn't prove it by me. I found no scientific tests showing that nitrogen-filled tires stayed inflated longer than average under normal conditions. A car-buff buddy was sure it worked but conceded he had only anecdotal evidence that it did.

As for moisture, changes in humidity affect tire performance two ways. First, the density of humid air fluctuates more with temperature than that of dry air, so removing humidity can keep your tire pressure more consistent, especially when the temperature climbs over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. That may be a legitimate concern in Formula One racing, but it's not much of an issue if you're just tooling around town.

Humidity can also be a factor in wheel maintenance - since pure nitrogen doesn't have moisture in it, supposedly your wheels won't rust as quickly, which could lead to improved wheel performance and air sealing. The question is, how big a problem is wheel rust these days? According to a few tire and wheel shops we contacted, not very. Seriously rusted wheels are uncommon in typical steel-wheeled cars, and many high-performance cars have alloy wheels that don't rust at all. One exception is work vehicles such as dump trucks, which are exposed to a much harsher environment.

Another claim I've seen is that since nitrogen is slightly lighter than air, you'll save weight and get better performance. However, we're talking about a weight difference of less than 4 percent of the gas in the tire - in other words, a difference of less than an ounce for most vehicles. A possibly more realistic benefit is that nitrogen is largely inert chemically at low (i.e., normal) temperatures, so it won't attack the rubber in your tires like oxygen does. Oxygen attack is something both the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Ford Research have studied, and can be a problem for tires used for a long time or in rough conditions.

More important, nitrogen doesn't support combustion, which is one reason aircraft and the space shuttle use nitrogen in their tires. The wisdom of this precaution was brought home by the crash of Mexicana Airlines flight 940 on March 31, 1986. Shortly after the Boeing 727 took off from Mexico City en route to Puerto Vallarta, an overheated landing-gear brake caused a tire improperly filled with air instead of nitrogen to overheat as well and explode, rupturing fuel and hydraulic lines. The ensuing fire and crash killed 167 passengers and crew. However, unless your driving habits are of the X-treme variety, the chances of your tires catching fire anytime soon are slim.

Overall, filling up with nitrogen won't hurt and may provide some minimal benefit. Is it worth it? If you go to some place like Costco that does it for free with new tires, sure, why not? Elsewhere, though, I've seen prices quoted as high as $10 per tire, which is way more than I'd pay. Rather than shell out for nitrogen, you'd be better off just checking and adjusting your tire pressure regularly, something the NHTSA says less than 60 percent of U.S. motorists actually do.

-- Cecil Adams


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:32 AM
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34: Me also, but my reason is that I'm afraid of being crushed by a car.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:33 AM
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35 to 33.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:35 AM
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I think it's awesome, LB. Sounds like you have a system that mostly works for you. An upgrade in the lifestyle department - not so easy to do.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:36 AM
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it'd still be fantastic if my work place had an actual shower

At a certain level of LEED certification, new buildings are required to have a shower, I believe. My new office has a full-sized shower down the hall, so I could bike to work and take a shower after I arrived. Sadly, I live close enough to walk to work, so I'll probably never take advantage of it.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:42 AM
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38: It could help if you started to have an affair at work or something.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:43 AM
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I live close enough to walk to work, but biking takes 3 minutes instead of 15 minutes, so I do that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:01 AM
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Rolling clothes prevents wrinkles and gets them smaller. I've done it with dress shirts and a sport coat, although not wool pants.
It's for use by partners only, which strikes me as incredibly bizarre.
Especially if they only have one nozzle- showering with your partner isn't always as fun as it sounds.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:20 AM
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I tried bike commuting for a while, and it was fun, but I gave it up largely for Brock-like considerations -- even with a change of clothes in the office, I just felt weird all day without a shower after the bike ride, and arranging for a gym to store the clothes proved just complicated and expensive enough to make me give up the scheme. It felt more like a chore than a pleasure. If I had had a nice bike path along the Hudson river, as opposed to darting through crowded streets in which already angry LA commuters were trying to kill me, I might have kept going.

In a few months, I will have a subway that I can take (most of the way) to work, if I bike 2 minutes to the subway stop and then take a 5 minute shuttle bus to the office. The mind boggles!


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:36 AM
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Sadly, I live close enough to walk to work

Not cause for too much sorrow.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:36 AM
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33 (both the quoted part and the comment) are sort of true but fundamentally unfair. I mean, yes, if I really really wanted to, then of course I could just do it. Bascially, I feel like it would be a very nice change in lifestyle, but also sort of a giant logistical hassle, and so on balance I'm not sure if the plusses outweigh the minuses. Given that, so far inertia has kept me from doing it. But it's still something I'm interested in, and if I could figure out a way to make it a modest logistical hassle instead of a giant one, I think the plusses would clearly dominate. And I feel like I've learned something more or less every time I've brought it up, which to be fair has only been in the bike threads, where I assumed it was fair game. E.g., the idea of buying a stand-alone closet for my office and literally taking my entire professional waredrobe to work hadn't occurred to me before, and might actually be a workable idea. (Maybe it's obnoxious of me to always interject my personal non-biking experiences in LB's bike threads. I don't mean it that way. It's certainly probably boring, as I acknowledged in 7, but at least it's not a swimming thread. I'm interested in talking about it because it's something that's actually on my mind a lot--I'm actively considering ways to try to make it work, and talking with people who bike about it is helpful. (Which I've also done a modest amount of offline.)) Although the advice I've received hasn't always been consistent, which is part of what makes figuring things out a bit tricky. E.g., in this thread I'm being told by multiple people not to try and bike with a suit in a pannier, which is the first time I've heard that, although I suspect it's probably right. When the issue came up in a previous thread, I was told by multiple people that packing a suit in a pannier would be fine, and probably my best solution.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:41 AM
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LB, I hadn't been looking for any particular gains, but one day I noticed that I'd waited for the green light without putting a foot down. I'm not particularly track-standing, but I can now balance for longer than I expect. There are all sorts of improvements, and I bet you've gotten better in ways you don't notice.

Also, I can't imagine doing your commute without a bike that fits you well. And yeah. Taking the kids out on bikes feels fantastic.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:42 AM
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It's possible I just need to decide that's it's not a very good idea, and drop the issue from my mind. It's never going to be as convenient as taking the bus, which is the standard it's being compared against, and it probably wouldn't be enough exercise to worry with, or to justify much at all in the way of additional daily inconvenience.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:44 AM
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I have taken the kids downtown on the bike path a couple of times

Does this mean everyone is riding bikes, or are you dragging them in a bike trailor?

I drag the kids around in a bike trailor a fair amount on the weekends, and it's shocking (to me) how much more difficult it is than riding solo.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:47 AM
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I dunno, Brock. It is affirmatively fun, feels all good and glide-y. The bus is easy, but it probably doesn't make your day better (unless you like the people-watching). You aren't just balancing conveniences. You're balancing neutral against more inconvenient and more fun.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:49 AM
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48: I find that riding the bus is a very good way to feel better about my level of physical fitness, clothing, and personal stink-level.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:51 AM
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Slightly ashamed to link to a Daily Mail piece, but this is actually a nice piece of journalism. It's about Sralan's biking habits.

I commute by bike most days now. I suspect bike speed is a not only to do with bike / rider geometry, as people are saying, but also the availability of high enough gears, and maybe also wheel size. Brompton wheels are very small, and I wonder if even slight variations in road surface take energy out of them. I started on a folder a few years back, and now tend to ride a 700c bike; the nicest thing about folders, of course, is being able to duck onto buses, trains, etc. but I have never, ever been passed by a Brompton rider. Why not rent a road bike for a week and see if it improves the experience further?

Next month I get to go to Glacier national park. Apparently there is a nice road there that can be biked. It goes up to 6,500 ft or something, so I do fear it slightly.

Also: cleats.


Posted by: Charlie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:52 AM
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Back from court, so some responses:

7: I bike in bike shorts (I finally invested in a pair of overshorts so my ass isn't hanging out there in lycra, and I feel much less ridiculous now) and a tshirt -- oddly, not a common choice. Most people I see in bike shorts are also in jerseys. (If anyone can explain the huge comfort advantage of a jersey over a tshirt, I'd be interested, but until I figure out what they're for I'm not wearing anything that's both expensive and funnylooking.) Work clothes in my bag, I bike to my gym and shower, change, and walk the block to work. I don't bike if I've got court and have to wear a suit, but that's rarely more than one day a week.

4 last, 9 last, 19: I'm really logistically attached to the foldie -- not having to have a place to put it down here is a big deal, and so is storage space in our apartment. And given the constraints of foldieness, I don't think there's any way to adjust the frame beyond buying the longer seat post. Maybe I'll do that, but I'm not sure it's a good idea given the shortness of the frame.

20: Totally. When not biking, I run occasionally, and I just don't enjoy it -- my best run ever in my life made it to not-unpleasant. Biking is fun.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:54 AM
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|| Brock Landers is in the news! And he's a Quayle! |>


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:55 AM
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I don't bike if I've got court and have to wear a suit, but that's rarely more than one day a week.

Huh. That's discouraging.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:58 AM
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so my ass isn't hanging out there in lycra

This is just so selfish. You think the other riders are looking out for the scenery?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:58 AM
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54: Yeah, the suit thing may be a soluble problem, but I haven't solved it. I do keep an emergency suit on the back of my door in case I have to run to court on a day I wasn't expecting to, but generally the logistics there seem complicated.

Honestly, if I were you with a 3.5 mile commute and I wanted some exercise, I'd walk, as was suggested above.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:03 AM
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55 was mine, btw. I didn't know anonymous comments were allowed.


Posted by: Charlie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:05 AM
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I don't quite get 52.

Walking isn't a terrible suggestion, although it's hardly a scenic walk, and also that's a lot less fun than riding a bike, and also, at least in the summer, I'd still be a sweaty mess by the time I go to the office, especially if I was wearign a suit, but really regardless of what I was wearing, so I'm not sure the logisitical considerations are all that different.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:07 AM
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55 was mine, btw. I didn't know anonymous comments were allowed.

Sure, but sockpuppeting a front-page poster?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:07 AM
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(If anyone can explain the huge comfort advantage of a jersey over a tshirt, I'd be interested, but until I figure out what they're for I'm not wearing anything that's both expensive and funnylooking.)

Don't wear one unless you want to, but in the synthetic fabric makes them more comfortable when you're sweating, the zipper allows you to get ventilation when it's hot, and the fittedness makes them more aerodynamic than a floppy t-shirt snapping in the wind, and the pockets are handy if you're not carrying a bag (and don't want stuff in your pants pockets). But, you know, not a big deal if you're not in a big bike race.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:07 AM
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56: They are permitted by the software, but the management looks harshly upon them.

Seriously, on that bike path? I'm not the scenery, I'm the audience. There are an awful lot of very young, very pretty, very fit men and women out there wearing very little. Joggers more than bikers, but they're all on the same path.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:08 AM
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57: one thing I would say is that (like Moby and his traffic considerations) you don't really know how inconvenient the logistics will be until you try it. Similarly, you don't really know how nice it is until you try it. So it might be worth trying it for a couple of weeks just to settle it in your mind.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:09 AM
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scooter. I have colleagues who do a mile this way, xootr is the brand name for adult scooters. You will attract thrown trash if you do it in traffic, though, I'd think, since they look comical.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:09 AM
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an emergency suit

I'm envisioning lots of yellow reflective material and little flashing LEDs. Or maybe a Ghostbusters uniform. Is there a firepole to slide down, too? There must be.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:10 AM
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60: Maybe LB could break an hour if she quit drafting hott joggers.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:11 AM
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Scooters seemed to fade completely from view in Oxford, but in Ealing I see loads of people using them. It seems like more kids than not trundle to school on them accompanied by a walking parent, or by a parent on their own scooter.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:13 AM
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Have we analyzed the potential for Brock to quit his job and become a bike messenger? Or to stop wearing suits to his job?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:13 AM
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Resolved: Brock totally sucks if he doesn't start biking to work and liveblogging about it.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:16 AM
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Oops. Phone commenting is a bit fiddly.

I have a wool jersey as of last week. And a wool base layer which M. bought me. They're a massive indulgence but v. nice on cooler mornings. And you feel more correct wearing something with that sort of cut. The penalty is being perceived as that much more of a bicycle fascist, I suppose.


Posted by: Charlie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:18 AM
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I'll echo what other people have said about tire pressure -- I check my tire pressure (by feel) every time I ride and top them off once or twice a week.

I will say, I'm mildly jealous when you say so easily:

Adding between one and two hours of being outdoors exercising while I look at the Hudson River and the pretty people around me to my workday has just made life a whole lot better.

I like bike commuting but if my commute were much longer than it is (~20 min each way) I would definitely take a noticeable chunk of energy out of my day.

I know that I'm just not, generally speaking, a high energy person but I had a stretch in my early 20s where I was doing a 7 mile commute that was moderately hilly both ways and I was (a) in the best shape of my life, which I attributed to the commute and (b) tired when I got home at the end of the day. After a day of work (which was quite mentally taxing) and a bike ride I didn't want to do anything in the evenings.

I'm in decent shape, generally, I don't feel like it's a conditioning problem, just, I don't know, I definitely feel the difference, both positive and negative, in my energy level when I'm doing a lot of biking.

Which is all to say, congratulations, having a regular exercise routine is a big deal, even if it feels easy.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:19 AM
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one thing I would say is that (like Moby and his traffic considerations) you don't really know how inconvenient the logistics will be until you try it. Similarly, you don't really know how nice it is until you try it. So it might be worth trying it for a couple of weeks just to settle it in your mind.

Well, this isn't really true though, is it? I mean, I haven't yet experienced the logistical hassles, but in thinking it through I've got a fairly good handle on what they are, and unless I can come up with ways to lessen them, I think I know roughly how much of a hassle they'd be. Similarly, I haven't experienced the bliss of biking to work, but I've been on a bike plenty of times, and I know how much I enjoy it, so I think I can draw some rough parallels.

On the "try for several weeks" point, while it's a fair point, doing something as a short-term trial would involve significantly higher logistical hassles than would be involved once I'd spent some money to make it a part of my lifestyle (moving my closet to work, or joining a gym, or whatever). So again, I'd surely get some new information, but not a tremendous amount.

I'm actually getting close to the point that I've learned enough that I think 46 may be more or less right; I'm just jealous of the biker-commuters.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:21 AM
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drafting hott joggers

I read recently that this is how Don Draper ended up in the military.

I have a wool jersey

Why not just go full-on cilice?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:23 AM
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C cycles about 3 1/2 miles across Oxford (gets the train and then cycles to the hospital) - he wears normal trousers and a bike T-shirt (very plain and cheap, non-dickish-looking). He takes shirts to and fro in his pannier folded around a bit of cardboard. I think just about all his ties are at work these days, and he keeps a suit there for special occasions as he doesn't need to wear one every day. I have suggested to him that he investigates the hospital laundry service so he would never even need to bring his shirts home, but he won't. I think he just has a quick wash when he gets there, but he's not a particularly sweaty/smelly person.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:23 AM
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Brock,

Being in a similar situation, I get how hard the shower/suit thing is, even with walking. What I should be doing on my commute is walking to/from the train station (maybe 3 miles) and my office. But in addition to all of the sloth-related reasons I do not do that, there is the problem of being all hot and sweaty when I get to work. I could position a lot of clothes in my office. But it does not fix the shower problem. If I were disciplined like LB, I would shower at a gym (meaning go to the office, get clothes, go to gym, shower, go back to office), but that just puts everything in the too hard to do box for me.
Why not ask if you can use the partners' shower? How often do they use it? Maybe they would not mind and will admire you desire to be more fit (so that you can bill more hours).


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:24 AM
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Or to stop wearing suits to his job?

You're wondering if I'm wearing them by choice, just because I think they look pretty?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:27 AM
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Why not ask if you can use the partners' shower?

It's actually a meth lab. We needed a sideline in a tough economy. Sorry for the web of lies, but it is a law firm so it isn't like you didn't have a warning.


Posted by: Brock's Firm's (Opinionated) Partners | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:28 AM
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Wondering how the suit-required rule is enforced. I mean, I'm sure they'd like me to wear professional looking clothing here too, but they haven't fired me for jeans and a t-shirt every single day.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:31 AM
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76: You work for the government. That's not the same.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:32 AM
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71: no, not scratchy at all. It's a super-fine close knit fabric that they use. Mind you, there's probably a bicycling / Opus Dei intersection when it comes to bib shorts and 'chamois cream'. The cream is supposed to lessen the discomfort but I wonder if it isn't completely unpleasant in other ways.


Posted by: Charlie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:32 AM
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Given that Brock was concerned about his wife's delicate nose stud at the Christmas party, I'm guessing the suit requirement is implied loud and clear.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:36 AM
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(b) tired when I got home at the end of the day. After a day of work (which was quite mentally taxing) and a bike ride I didn't want to do anything in the evenings.

Oh, I come home all worn out, but after a day of work I wasn't up for anything much in the evenings other than dinner and some TV anyway. Now I fall asleep involuntarily on the couch while watching the local news, but I never liked the local news anyway -- I just watch it to keep Buck company -- so I'm not missing anything when I pass out.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:36 AM
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57 - What's to get? "If you are a DIRTY ARMY Republican, vote for Ben Quayle," Karamian wrote, "because he was one of the original creators of DirtyScottsdale.com which evolved into TheDirty.com." He said Quayle, the son of former Vice President Dan Quayle, wrote several posts for the site using the pseudonym Brock Landers...


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:37 AM
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Wondering how the suit-required rule is enforced.

*boggles*


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:38 AM
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Well, I disregard a lot of rules and then nothing happens. So I tend to think that people do most of the enforcement in their own heads. Which is fine, until it makes something important, like riding a bike to work, inconvenient.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:40 AM
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I'm guessing the suit requirement is implied loud and clear.

It's not implied; it's stated.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:41 AM
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So I tend to think that people do most of the enforcement in their own heads.

You're supposed to imagine the bars of your own prison, Megan. Have you gone out of parameters on this one?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:42 AM
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I suspect Brock could get in pretty serious trouble at the office for wearing the wrong kind of tie.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:43 AM
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Oh, and LB, since this thread is about YOU - happy bike commuting anniversary.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:43 AM
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Bollocks, not again.


Posted by: Charlie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:43 AM
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I ask people what would actually happen if they broke some rule. The answer is generally something like, "people might look at me." Which isn't enough of a penalty to keep someone wearing suits, far as I'm concerned.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:43 AM
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86: The ties that look like fish are a safe choice.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:44 AM
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89: he'd get yelled at, and if he did it again, he'd get fired.

Is my guess.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:44 AM
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I think this may be something a Californian just can't understand. I have no doubt they'd just fire him if he stopped wearing suits.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:45 AM
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91, 92: And it would be hard to get all of his personal items home if he has to ride a bike on his way out.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:47 AM
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It was hilarious watching the lawyer on my jury dress more and more casually the first week of the trial, starting with a sharp suit and progressing to her wearing sweatpants one day by the end of the trial.

The minister who was an alternate, on the other hand, had a 3-piece suit with a handkerchief that matched the tie every single day.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:48 AM
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Yeah, a suit-requiring law firm requires suits, in a "you will be fired" kind of way. (If he were interested in rule breaking for its own sake, he could probably push it to a blazer and good pants, but that doesn't help the commute.)

I push the lower limits of acceptable dress here, and did at my prior jobs, but I wasn't crossing a suit/no-suit line.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:49 AM
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I ask people what would actually happen if they broke some rule. The answer is generally something like, "people might look at me."

What kinds of rules are they not breaking?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:51 AM
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Rules were made to be broken after polite inquiries about the penalty for said infraction and a careful analysis of costs and benefits.


Posted by: Risk Adverse Rebel Without a Cause | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:52 AM
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Huh. People will adapt to any sort of conditions, I guess.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:53 AM
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Also, despite the fact that being a slob is convenient for me, I kind of like men in suits -- it's a better look on most men than business casual.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:54 AM
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Huh. People will adapt to any sort of conditions, I guess make giant life decisions, like what sort of job to have, that may not be the decisions I would make.

Crazy, that.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:55 AM
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Rules about keeping their lawns mowed.
Rules about what to wear to work.
Rules about where you are allowed to go in public spaces.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:56 AM
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WHY DO ALL THE GAYS IN THE MILITARY KEEP LYING ABOUT WHO THEY ARE

IT SEEMS UNETHICAL AND WORSE, DISHONEST

CAN THEY BE OPEN-MINDED FOR ONCE?


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:56 AM
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he'd get yelled at, and if he did it again, he'd get fired.

Really, I think the first time someone would nicely say 'hey, we have an office dress code, you know.' The second time it would probably be much more gruff, but still relativley informal. I'm sure after that they'd at least talk about firing me, although firing relatively productive attorneys for dress code violations probably isn't a common occurrence, so it might not be automatic. I'd certainly be hauled into someone's office for an explanation of what the hell was up, and I don't think 'I prefer to bike to work' would be a satisfactory explanation.

A profitable senior partner? I'm sure could show up in shorts, and say to hell with 'em. But that's not me.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:57 AM
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like what sort of job to have

But there are non-suit wearing lawyers, and the lawyers here wouldn't get fired for underdressing, even below the non-suit standard. In fact, nothing would happen to them. Which is how I've learned that not all rules are rules.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 10:58 AM
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Speaking of wool undergarments, when I was in the Yukon I went to a very high-tech sporting store with my mother who was determined to spend money on me. (Thanks, ma!) I tried on--but didn't need---a WOOL SPORTS BRA. It was merino wool, very nicely woven, and not at all scratchy. Cute, too! My mother offered to buy it for me, but I demurred.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:00 AM
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But everyone has a bit of a bank account about breaking social rules. If you make lots of extroverted deposits in your bank account, then you can make more rule-breaking withdrawals. If you don't feel like making social deposits or aren't capable of figuring out the rules around making social deposits, then you get really stingy around rule-breaking withdrawals.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:01 AM
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98: You are my new role model. I assume you'll be live blogging your sit-in against your involuntary, repeated temporary lay-off.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:02 AM
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Which is how I've learned that not all rules are rules.

Have you learned yet that some rules are rules? That can turn out to be an unpleasant lesson.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:02 AM
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108.2 should not be in italics.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:03 AM
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106: Is there a number to call to get my balance?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:04 AM
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98: You are my new role model. I assume you'll be live blogging your sit-in against your involuntary, repeated temporary lay-off.

Or, better yet, your insistence on continuing your furlough schedule once the official furloughs have ended.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:05 AM
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Guys, it is possible to reconcile cycling and suit-wearing.

In fact it's possible to do so far less ridiculously than that.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:06 AM
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Sorry Megan, the guy in the link at 112 is now my hero.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:09 AM
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||

For absolutely no reason I can discern, the theme song from "Fame" popped into my head and I went on over to youtube to find a version to listen to, which brought me to this Irene Cara video with hilariously awful visual effects, not to mention terrible dancing. Please do enjoy.

|>


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:11 AM
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$5,500 for a suit that looks weird from behind? No thanks...


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:11 AM
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Or, better yet, your insistence on continuing your furlough schedule once the official furloughs have ended.

I did that in July; took the Fridays off. They're the ones who trained me.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:16 AM
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Brock Landers revealed.

Worse.


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:17 AM
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That guy in the link is an idiot. In the dorksuit vs. higher, swept back handlebars matchup, option 2 wins every time.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:17 AM
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All the way back to comment 2: you know, I've got no idea what my blood pressure is, but I check my resting pulse occasionally and it hasn't dropped from its customary 72. I'm somewhat offended by this -- I've been biking an awful lot, shouldn't I be seeing some change? -- but I don't see anything to do about it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:19 AM
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I wish I had as much confidence in my job security as you do, Megan, honest, but I don't think the fact that I don't is simply a character flaw, and I'm not sure presenting it that way is especially useful.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:20 AM
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But there are non-suit wearing lawyers, and the lawyers here wouldn't get fired for underdressing, even below the non-suit standard. In fact, nothing would happen to them. Which is how I've learned that not all rules are rules.

But you do not work at a private law firm, right? We normally do not wear suits to the office, but even we have standards--imagine an employee who insists on coming to work in cut-off shorts and a t-shirt. I can get away with that occasionally, but I am a partner. If an associate routinely did that and ignored instructions to stop, that associate would have to be bringing in millions of dollars a year of business before he or she had any chance of ever being more than an associate, or even having a job for long. This is a private business and we get to make and enforce rules about such things.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:21 AM
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Sorry. I should have read the thread and 52.


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:21 AM
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Well, of course you have a better assessment of your job security than I do. I was checking that the constraints on riding to work are actually constraints (since sometimes they aren't). If you say they're constraints, I believe you.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:22 AM
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52/117 seem like they ought to be sufficient cause for a change of pseudonym. I've disliked this one for years anyway.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:22 AM
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120: Apparently, all you need to do is act like you have civil service protection and no dependents.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:23 AM
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You people have to understand that Megan's mortgage is practically free. So the stakes are low for her in the office scofflaw game.

Also, LB, that's fantastic. After a three-year hiatus, I'm back to riding my bike a few hundred miles/week, and it's shocking how much happier and even-keeled I am. Also also, as everyone says, check your pressure every day and be prepared to put a few puffs of air in your tires, and get a new stem and post if possible. The former will make your ride easier and, much more importantly, keep you safe. If you have hp tires, as you seem to, a flat can, on rare occasions, be catastrophic. No reason to increase the risk needlessly. As for the stem and bars, Sifu's right: bike fit is a huge part of going fast and feeling good. One of the reasons for my three-year hiatus, in addition to the birth of my second kid, was that my old bike didn't really fit optimally. I had all kinds of nagging aches and pains while and after riding, and the (somewhat) poor fit generally diminished the fun of a good ride. Life is better now.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:23 AM
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124: Nooooooooo! A: I hate name changes; B: What will become of Btock-style posting? Your pseud has history!


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:24 AM
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Also also also, have you watched the sequel of Life on Mars? It's not nearly as good but is still totally worth the time: because it's basically a vehicle for Glenister to chew scenery, and then, at the end of the run, the writers provide a pretty decent explanation of what's been going on throughout the whole thing.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:25 AM
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sequel to


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:26 AM
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I wish I had as much confidence in my job security as you do, Megan, honest, but I don't think the fact that I don't is simply a character flaw

Well, Brock, your job is in jeopardy because people have learned you're really Ben Quayle, and I think posting at "thedirty.com" might be a character flaw.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:26 AM
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Nah, it's not on Netflix yet, or wasn't the last time I looked. But I've been watching for it -- Glenister chewing up the scenery is lots and lots of fun.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:29 AM
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Ashes to Ashes? The first season was on Netflix, I think, but somehow got moved to my "Saved" queue, which I guess means someone ate their only copies of the DVDs?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:31 AM
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Or maybe I'm wrong and it was under "Saved" to begin with, since the DVDs don't seem to be for sale on Amazon either.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:33 AM
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I've had it in my Saved queue for a while, and haven't noticed it moving. Since they started streaming to the Wii, I have to admit that I've almost stopped returning discs -- if I can't get it instantly, I usually don't watch it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:34 AM
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118 is correct. Just say no to dorksuits. And yes to a comfortable riding position.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:35 AM
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I wonder if reporters will be trolling the interwebz for comments left by "Brock Landers." Btock goes wall-to-wall!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:36 AM
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i have a ~ 3 mile bike commute in new orleans and i am certainly a disgusting sweaty mess when i get to work - but since i shower in the mornings, it's clean sweat, and it dries with 10 min or so of arriving. i guess you need a certain baseline level of comfort w/ not being in a state of perfect sartorial crispness for this to be an option, but a) it's not like anyone who walks more than half a block down here is looking too spruce either and b) you never know what you're comfortable with til you try, right?


Posted by: juliaf | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:38 AM
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"Sources tell us that Ben Quayle has also posted on the internet about feeding moldy bread to children."


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:39 AM
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137: Sweating in NOLA is different, in my experience, because everyone's doing it. It's like the tropics: there's no expectation that people will look crisp and buttoned-down, even if they're dressed for work.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:45 AM
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It's hard to look crisp in linen.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:46 AM
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Or seersucker!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:47 AM
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Or tinfoil.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:48 AM
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They serve fish 'n' crisps in newspaper, I hear. I recommend wearing newspaper.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:50 AM
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Huh-- my experience is that the farther north, the less natty, while even in extreme heat in the tropics, people tend to look put together. The guayabera is pressed, if anything's frayed or rumpled, it's a chosen look.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:55 AM
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Ahh. I just completed half of my bike commute, only to discover that I left my power cord at home. Back to the bike! (It's only like 12 minutes each way so I can't complain too much.)


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:57 AM
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Ah. It may be cool, but it's terribly windy. And I'm pretty sure my hair will now look crappy all day long. But, um, exercise, yay?


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 12:26 PM
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137: it's not like anyone who walks more than half a block down here is looking too spruce either

That was me in Houston where my 3-block journey to the bus stop (which would progress from walk to jog to sprint thanks to my inevitable tardiness) would leave me unpresentable even at 7 AM.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 12:34 PM
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switching to road-slicks from nobby tires seems like it would be a good way to end up eating pavement.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 12:44 PM
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148: why?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 12:44 PM
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Yes, i sometimes wonder why there are people living in continental climates, let alone billions of people in the tropics. If there was a million+ pop city in antarctica, i would so move there. style and cold.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 12:47 PM
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149: Some people take their Stephen Malkmus fan-boy-ism a bit too far.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 12:49 PM
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150: "If" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:07 PM
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150, 152: My son spent a week nagging us to move to Antarctica. Then he switched to Iceland, which is at least theoretically possible.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:10 PM
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149: nothing very empirical. the gut feel says 'thats not robust enough to deal with potholes/rain slick/dirt/rubble. descending mountain sections of le tour de france always seemed like the local variant of russian roulette tho


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:17 PM
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Antarctica? Six months of darkness each year and dangerous even to step outside much of the time. Major problems with both water and agriculture. It's just not a place that'll support much of anything. Having said that, I wouldn't have minded if it had been me that got to design this.


Posted by: Charlie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:20 PM
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154: Not the case in my experience. I ride all winter in Boston on 700x23s. Mountain bike tires are better at dealing with loose sand and dirt (which makes sense, as that's what they were designed to do), but are terrifically inefficient on paved surfaces, not very good on slick, wet surfaces, and not more puncture resistant (nor thicker, outside of the knobby parts) than kevlar road tires. Even for offroad, unless you're going over big rocks, MTB tires are kind of overkill; if you look at cyclocross tires, they're fairly thin and the tread is quite modest. If you're going to be hitting curbs head-on at full speed they're probably better, but, you know, you don't have to do that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:23 PM
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If you're going to be hitting curbs head-on at full speed...

Pittsburgh has this love of huge, unrounded curbs. I don't know why, but on some streets the sidewalk is six inches higher than the street.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:28 PM
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157: curb heights used to be much higher, but if I gave you a reason as to why I would be pretty much making it up out of whole cloth.

Still, there's no reason to bike into them at full speed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:31 PM
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Because they are there?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:37 PM
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I think we had this discussion once-- Schwalbe Marathon on 27' wheels for me.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:40 PM
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See. If you have a Schwalbe Marathon on 27' wheels, you pretty much have to run full speed at a curb.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:45 PM
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I'd think with the 27' tires you'd pretty easily cruise right over streetlights and parked cars, too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:52 PM
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I like to put my feet down when I stop, so I'd have to get smaller wheels.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 1:54 PM
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curb heights used to be much higher

Because the streets used to flood before the city put in a stormwater drainage system.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 2:01 PM
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Light is pretty easy to make, and the water/food problem is not any worse than any of the desert cities of the southwest.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 2:04 PM
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I like to put my feet down when I stop, so I'd have to get smaller wheels some fabulously high heels.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 2:06 PM
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biking from 218th St to 84th to go to the movies makes it feel like a real accomplishment.

I'm not sure where the Greenway actually starts, do you ride through the Dyckman Ave, Seaman Ave., Cumming St. snicker zone before cutting over? I ask because I'm a child young at heart.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 2:33 PM
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If there was a million+ pop city in antarctica, i would so move there. style and cold.

Considering that you could easily move to Tromso, Norway, or Murmansk (not a million +, but definitely cities), I'm going to say that you're not really committed to this plan.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 2:39 PM
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Tromso, Norway

That place looks kind of neat. It doesn't even get very cold. If only I spoke Norwegian.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 2:45 PM
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167: I ride down Seaman Avenue past the intersection with Cumming Street, and cross Dyckman immediately before turning onto the Greenway. And that's not even a little bit funny.

(Our butchershop is the Broad Dyck Meat Market. Also, not comic in the least.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 2:47 PM
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Cute, WikiAnswers.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 2:48 PM
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I knew a guy in college who did a school year abroad in Tromso because he wanted to study at the northernmost university in the world.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 2:49 PM
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170: Whoops, I got the spelling wrong. It's the Broadyke Meat Market, even better.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 2:50 PM
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I can think of three reasons for bike jerseys over t-shirts.
1. wicking fabric keeping you dry
2. longer back than front which goes with your position on a road bike
3. pockets on your back for things like keys, money, tire levers, tubes, and phones.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:10 PM
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172: Or he enjoyed reindeer on a whole deeper level than Santa.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:14 PM
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Ha, I nearly added to my comment earlier that C goes past Crotch Crescent on his way to work.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:19 PM
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At a risk of deflecting some of the ganging up on Brock, I have come to learn that there is more of a potentially workable bike commute for me at my relatively new location than I had hitherto imagined. I knew there was a bike path about halfway up the 7 miles of river towards my place (but which leaves you pretty well stranded), but apparently seasoned vets routinely blast past the No Trespassing signs for a couple of miles more to where I could reasonably get to what would be a yucky not-graded-for-bicycles-one-bit-but-doable 300-foot finishing climb out of the valley. And I don't even have the "wear a suit" excuse.

Just need to acquire a reasonable bike and reasonable amount of weight loss and fitness level and a disregard for other people's property and bob's my uncle. (I might actually try an exploratory ride some weekend.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:20 PM
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reasonable amount of weight loss

Judging by some of the people who are faster than I am, this step is completely optional.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:20 PM
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170, 173, 176: It's like they don't even care what immature-minded people on the Internet will think.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:21 PM
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177: Why not just get a canoe?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:24 PM
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I can think of three reasons for bike jerseys over t-shirts.

If you think that's great, you should trying removing the t-shirt underneath.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:25 PM
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178: Well... my body and I are pretty well-acquainted at this point and my body says ...

But actually I've been kinds, sorta losing weight at a nice, slow clip recently. I think a key has been that I know fewer people at this new location, and in particular fewer people who keep food out on their desks. Also been going to bed earlier. I might end up so healthy it's going to make me want to puke.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:28 PM
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If only I spoke Norwegian.

Norwegian kids learn English in school. Go ahead and move there. Send us pretty sweaters!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:29 PM
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a disregard for other people's property

Let me know if you need coaching.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:30 PM
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Megan's down with OPP!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:31 PM
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180: You know, I like that idea--there are in fact boat access points at either end--easy downstream in the AM, harder work upstream in the evening. Probably a kayak though, wouldn't relish portaging the canoe up the hill every night.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:32 PM
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183: Send us pretty sweaters!

And lutefisk!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:33 PM
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I bet a water commute would add as much to your quality of life as LB's bike commute has added to hers.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:34 PM
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And would be much, much cooler.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:35 PM
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Yeah, you know me.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:35 PM
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With a pedal boat, you would get all the benefits of cycling plus time on the (hardly polluted at all) water.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:37 PM
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187: You can have mine.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:37 PM
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I want a new bike. I think if I can get any of my various employers to pay me I might get myself one. I don't think I'm going to tell my friend that the one he lent me was stolen. I'm pretty sure it won't come up.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:39 PM
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I could conceivably canoe to work. How long does it take to canoe 25 miles?

Actually, I can canoe from my house all the way to the Gulf of Mexico, with 100 of my new best friends, every summer if I wanted to.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 3:40 PM
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194: Several hours, if the current is with you.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 4:37 PM
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re: 148

Quite the opposite in my experience. The softer, fatter, knobblier tyres doesn't handle cornering at any speed, and is much less stable feeling on the hard surface of a road. The tyres I have still have a reasonable amount of tread [they are puncture resistant 'street' type road tyres, so not completely slick], but you can lean properly, they feel firm and stable underneath and there's much less vibration from the road surface.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 4:44 PM
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If only I spoke Norwegian.

"If only I spoke Norwogian", you mean.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:19 PM
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If only I spoke Norwegian who would there be to talk with?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:22 PM
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And lutefisk!

I could send you that now. Actually I am not sure how easy it is to find right now, but around Christmas I could totally send people lutefisk. I am not sure why anyone would actually want that though.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:27 PM
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What, conceivably, is the joke in 197? Are we all supposed to play along like we understand?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:30 PM
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Because the streets used to flood before the city put in a stormwater drainage system.

Where I used to live the streets had very high curbs and some streets even had little bridges from the street to the driveway. All for stormwater runoff. As it is even now the storm water system gets overloaded in a big storm. Flooding used to be the norm. All of this in progressive California.


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:31 PM
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Well, I bet the curbs and streets went in decades before the stormwater system, which was probably put in during the 60's.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:33 PM
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"If only I spoke Norwogian", you mean.

Those responsible for the Norwegian subtitles have been sacked.


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:33 PM
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Well, I bet the curbs and streets went in decades before the stormwater system, which was probably put in during the 60's.

Yep. Plus nobody lived up in the hills, but they had summer cabins. They would just rebuild when the winter rains ruined the cabins.

Now that there are permanent residences all over the place people demand infrastructure. The nerve.


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:36 PM
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Once you get used to West Coast standards of dress, it's easy to forget how much more important and common dressing up is in the Northeast Corridor.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:37 PM
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Get used to?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:43 PM
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Sorry, that phrasing was for those of us who are new to the West Coast.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 5:56 PM
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It's like the tropics: there's no expectation that people will look crisp and buttoned-down, even if they're dressed for work.

Strangely enough, sweat pouring off you gets noticed even in the tropics, as does body odor. Also hard: finding competent help to clean your grass shack.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 6:31 PM
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Weird. Here in the temperate latitudes, frostbite isn't even considered a medical issue until you lose a second toe.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:39 PM
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I spent a night, in daylight, in Tromso without a place to stay. Stupid midnight sun marathon took up all the accommodations, apparently.

It would have been nice if the American guy who worked for the passenger ship company at Narvik had not been completely wrong about whether or not I needed a reservation for the ferry that stopped there in the middle of the night. I even asked him to make me one and he called the ship - so he claimed - and then told me not to get one. So I could save money. I guess ending up in a park for a few hours saved me money, but it screwed up my itinerary. Odds are I'll never have a chance to go out to the Lofoten islands again.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:45 PM
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Tromso also may have the northernmost Burger King in the world. North of the Macdonalds in Rovaniemi, I think, too. I have no idea why they don't advertise this.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:52 PM
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Once you get used to West Coast standards of dress, it's easy to forget how much more important and common dressing up is in the Northeast Corridor.

And the reverse, of course. Those used to the West Coast would have to get used to standards on the Northeast Corridor.

Not that that needs to be explained.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 7:55 PM
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The northernmost metropolitan area with a population larger than 1 million may be Helsinki.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:06 PM
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The northern most city with a population of more than 13 million is Shanghai.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:12 PM
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You know, I think it would be so awesome if Stormcrow started commuting by kayak. If I could do it, I would. I can't think of a more fun way to get to work.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:15 PM
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the Northeast Corridor

This phrase makes me think of trains. Or of the Arctic above Russia, but I guess that's a Passage rather than a Corridor.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:32 PM
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215: I'm actually thinking it through* as a possibility. I did find an article in the Post-Gazette which describes a few people doing what is basically 1/2 of my proposed route. It might be a bit long and the work end has some challenges although there is a kayak rental place 1 block from my work where they store kayaks.

Part of my motivation is that the river-hugging road I take is about to undergo four (4) years of construction with few good alternates.

*"Thinking it through" currently = overcoming the skepticism of family members.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:41 PM
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I would ride an elephant to work if only I had one. And parking. And forage. And one of those elephant drivers.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:45 PM
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Yeah, I suppose you can't just lock the kayak to a bike rack, can you? Still! Kayaking is so much fun! And that's a relatively easy distance to do.

Though, 7 miles is a long ways against the current. That might be less fun.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:45 PM
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Part of my motivation is that the river-hugging road I take is about to undergo four (4) years of construction with few good alternates.

If you didn't pay 3% less income tax, I'd feel sorry for you.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:49 PM
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Though, 7 miles is a long ways against the current. that might be less fun.

You just need to get five kayaks, and then drive them all home on Friday.


Posted by: Mr.Blandings | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 8:51 PM
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220: Exaggerated. More like 1.6% less.

Sure, probably a pipe dream, although I think there is a marina where I could get it down to about 6 miles and still put in somewhat close to my house.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:03 PM
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I wonder if a water taxi would be profitable, especially during the road repair period. I don't think anybody would wait for the lock, so the water taxi would have to stop 6 miles or so from up from the point.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:03 PM
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As someone rather averse to getting up super-early in the morning, my hat is off to you, Stormcrow, for even thinking about it. I'd figure on having to get up at 5 a.m., which I'd consider completely unworkable. Slothful person that I am.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:06 PM
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223: At one point there was one than ran between like Station Square and North Shore and downtown, but I think it folded. Parking would be the issue for any significant volume from further upstream. (Something starting at Millvale/Washington's Landing might work and would miss the worst construction--it is where they kayakers in the P-G article started.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:10 PM
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224: Comment Idle speculation is free, pars.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:12 PM
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225: I'd like to start at the Waterworks, if that is before the lock. I don't know exactly where the lock is, but I think it isn't far from the Highland Park Bridge.

Washington's landing would be a stop, of course. But, people who don't live there couldn't possibly park there. The Waterworks would give you a few spots or a much quicker "kiss and ride" point.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:13 PM
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It doesn't sound very practical for a daily commute, but I vote Stormcrow tries it at least once. He wouldn't even need shower facilities.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:14 PM
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227: Waterworks is unfortunately upstream from the lock which is just downstream from the Highland Park Bridge.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:17 PM
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Call the Army Corp of Engineers. They'll just have to move it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:19 PM
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Do people in Pgh swim in the rivers? This question came up with a recent-transplant friend, who had no clue but guessed no.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:22 PM
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I certainly don't swim the rivers. I have no idea if anybody else does. Except after a heavy rain, it's probably safe enough.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:23 PM
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I'm afraid of giant fish and floating poo.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:28 PM
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And a heavy rain just started, which is appreciated by everybody who isn't involved with the sewers.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:31 PM
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They do have some open water swimming races and tris there, know of 2 in the last few weeks (a co-worker did one of them)--they do have to check the bacteria level, higher levels usually associated with sanitary sewer overflows after heavy rains (and per Moby, current and floating debris gets dangerous). I did do crew for a few years on the Allegheny. But both Head of the Ohio races I was in had strong winds to where it was almost more about keeping the boat stable rather than going faster than the other boats. One year we were the last heat before they canceled (they had a few capsizes, but in the eights we were not likely to have it go that badly).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:31 PM
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(they had a few capsizes, but in the eights we were not likely to have it go that badly).

Ugly people are more likely to capsize a boat? Are the most attractive more likely or just no nines or tens find the time to row?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 9:48 PM
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Do it. Kayak commute to work, at least once. Do it for all of us who will never be able to.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:14 PM
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Yes, please.


Posted by: Opinionated Atacama Desert Dweller | Link to this comment | 08-11-10 11:27 PM
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217: You could get a ten-kilo collapsible kayak. Carbon fibre and Kevlar. Very nice. Paddle to work, come ashore, fold it up into its bag and take it into the office with you. As used by scary men with knives since 1942.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 4:16 AM
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Commuting by kayak is apparently recommended only if you work in Quincy or Nyack


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 4:38 AM
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218: if you had a mahout, you wouldn't need parking; he could drop you off at work and take the elephant home again, coming back to pick you up and take you home in the evening.

So what are you waiting for?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 4:56 AM
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There was a story a few years ago in the Washington Post about a guy who commuted to the CIA by kayak. A friendly, older, hippie analyst type.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 6:35 AM
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242: Searching around have come across a variety of other places where somebody kayaks to work. Biggest cohort I found seems to be in Baltimore across the Inner Harbor. Not surprisingly, most commutes seem to be across a narrow body of water rather than up and down, however.

Since this post was about LB actually having done something on a sustained basis, I will now shut-up about this mid-life crisis idea until I at least do a trial run.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 6:57 AM
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You could become the next viable category of watersports, Stormcrow.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 7:15 AM
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A friendly, older, hippie analyst type.

Or so The Company would have you believe.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 7:23 AM
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238: JUST HAVING AN OPINION DOESN'T MAKE YOU OPINIONATED, YOU KNOW.


Posted by: THE OPINIONATED GHOST OF OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 7:25 AM
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I blame the tire pressure recommendations in this thread for my exploding pump and subsequent walk to work this morning.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 7:30 AM
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247: You spent your commute money on a dirty massage?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 7:32 AM
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I did experience a release of pressure, but it was free.
Driving would have still resulted in a long walk, as I no longer maintain a parking pass, and I've let my bus pass expire through carelessness. I certainly won't pay for a bus ticket because I'm supposed to have a free pass, dammit.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 7:41 AM
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I have a free bus pass. It's very nice.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 7:43 AM
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247: perhaps the pump was elderly and infirm?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 7:55 AM
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Young, spry, and fully lubed.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 8:00 AM
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A friendly, older, hippie analyst type.

They're a lot more laid back than the China analysts, the Iran analysts and the terrorism analysts, but they don't get taken quite as seriously.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 8:17 AM
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253: Maybe he kayaks to work listening to this on his iPod--"Fucking A man, kayaking man". (And am repeating myself from an earlier thread, but RIP Tuli Kupferberg).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-12-10 8:37 AM
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