Re: 59:55, Bitches.

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Duplicate thread is lonely.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:04 AM
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Nice, robotic rabbits aren't that easy to come by.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:05 AM
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Wave goodbye -- you're getting deleted. I'm really not good at this posting from my iPhone bit.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:08 AM
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Oopsie!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:09 AM
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I'm really not good at this posting from my iPhone bit.

Quoth she, deleting the wrong thread.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:10 AM
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Dammit, I deleted the wrong one. Oh well, all the comments on the other thread were about the typo. Other than the ones about the Vuelta, which I had to look up.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:10 AM
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So, as I was saying, you can make a pun using the words "vuelta" and "veldt", as I hereby willl...oh, never mind.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:11 AM
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It's actually sort of a mixed blessing when you max out the time on your standard route (nail all the lights, get into top shape, etc.). Then you have nowhere to go but down. The excitement of regularly beating your personal best is gone.

As you can see, I'm a glass half empty kinda guy.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:15 AM
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Under one hour! Woohoo! I didn't see the other thread, so my congratulations will survive for posterity.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:18 AM
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I don't think I'm anywhere near top shape. I may be in the best shape I'm going to get into riding the way I have been -- if I wanted to get in better shape, I think I'd need to start doing intervals or something (which I did for a bit in late spring, but then it got hot and I got pathetic).

But it is a little irritating hitting a personal best only with help from all the luck possible -- this isn't actually faster biking than I've done a couple of times before.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:18 AM
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There were other comments about the vuelta after mine? I feel like Roy Batty, here.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:19 AM
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LB is carefully concealing her inadvertent admission that she owns a robot slave.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:20 AM
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I may be in the best shape I'm going to get into riding the way I have been

Nah. Biking is very progressive; you can keep building strength for years, even without doing anything particularly different.

I still say you should work on cadence, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:21 AM
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12: Not very carefully


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:27 AM
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12: Not very carefully


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:27 AM
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I'd delete that first failed attempt at a link, but this morning, it would only go wrong.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:33 AM
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Because you're all fascinated by the minutiae of my commute, the rabbit was actually kind of annoying -- he was slightly faster than I am on straight, flat, wide parts of the path (I could keep up, and could have passed him by sprinting, but couldn't stay ahead of him), but wanted to slow down drastically anytime the path got narrow or curvy. And he combined slowing down with drifting to the left, to make passing extra hard. I think I probably passed him three or four times because I couldn't take the dawdling on the complicated bits of the path, and then he'd pass three minutes later when the path opened back up.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:57 AM
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Very impressive, LB. I am impresed by your biking to work.

OT: I am running in my first Half Marathon tomorrow. The most that I have ever run is 12 miles so I am a little nervous.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:06 AM
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18: But that is what you are supposed to do when training for the first time, right? Run just a little less than the full amount, and save that for the big day?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:10 AM
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Huzzah, LB! Congrats. I first read this:

and had an excellent rabbit to chase all the way down

like this:

and had an excellent rabbi to chase all the way down

Which was odd. Maybe I need eyeglasses.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:17 AM
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20: "why is this commute different from all other commutes?"


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:19 AM
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Woo, go LB! Nicely done.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:20 AM
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I chased a yeshiva student (well, a twenty-something with sidecurls and a kippah) from the Village to Washington Heights a while back -- same sort of pattern; he and his friend would pass me and then stop or slow down and I'd pass them, back and forth for ten miles or so. But no rabbis as far as I know.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:20 AM
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23: Watch your attire, or they might chase you.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:24 AM
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and had an excellent rabbi to chase all the way down

That's New York for you.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:24 AM
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My article was better.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:25 AM
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oudemia:
yes. that is the idea. Somewhat related to LB's chasing of other bikers, my son's advice was find a cute booty and follow it!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:26 AM
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Well, darn it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:28 AM
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26: I dunno, Ned: "equally strict hipster libertinism"? Gross. Yes, women in tank tops! Whores! Libertines! I realize that some of the women are purposely phrasing things as tendentiously as possible, but "dressing like a slut" to Chasidic men is showing one's elbows or one's collarbone.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:34 AM
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The cross street by my house has been turned into a bike boulevard, and while it's no more hipster-dominated than the rest of the neighborhood, the hasidim would not be pleased. Will would have no problem finding people to follow.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:35 AM
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C. Jenkins and H. Loop in the article sound quite vindictive and eager to act out and annoy people for the sake of annoying people. "Equally strict" clearly doesn't mean anything.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:38 AM
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I call one of the streets by our house the "hipster superhighway" because of the density of bike commuters on it, but in truth they tend towards the unfortunately practical in presentation.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:39 AM
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Congrats, LB!!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:41 AM
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The Bedford Avenue bike lane debate is kind of like the Iran -Iraq war: one wants both sides to lose.

Oh, I guess at the end of the day I side with the hipsters, but still.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:41 AM
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31: Sure -- but bike shorts and a tank top is just as offensive (to the folks who are upset at all) as anything they can cook up. And it horrifies me that the city would even consider taking away a bike lane to spare fundamentalists the sight of normally (and legally) clad women.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:43 AM
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It is true that (at least in this city, and I assume in NYC as well) the ultra-orthodox/Hasidic groups seem to get a free pass to avoid the zoning laws in a way that no other group seems to acheive. Well, except big developers.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:46 AM
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32: The presentation is mostly practical here, in typical Oregonian boring-casual fashion, but it's summer, so it looks as though we're having a d├ęcolletage festival. If Knecht came to visit, I could set him up with a lawn chair and he'd be set for hours.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:50 AM
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I got yelled at by a very religious Orthodox Jewish woman for dressing slutty once, at a Purim festival. I was wearing a long boring skirt and a v-neck blouse. The v-neck was the problem. It didn't show any cleavage or anything. I was really taken aback and just wanted to go cry in the corner. The boyfriend who had brought me went and yelled at her, but half of it was in Hebrew and I really had no idea what they were saying.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:57 AM
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||

Speaking of Bitches, it's the 40th anniversary of the release of Bitches Brew, and there's an anniversary box set ...

>


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:58 AM
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39:
One of my proudest accomplishments as a parent is that my son can identify Miles Runs the Voodoo Down.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:05 AM
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re: 40

Heh. That's great.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:13 AM
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Ugggh, the OP makes me feel slow and out of shape and like I've been stuck inside working more than I wanted this summer.

But at least the project is a success.

Congratulations LB, I'm still impressed that you're consistently putting in the time to bike commute.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:21 AM
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I actually haven't been that consistent, particularly this week; I'll end the week having done only one and a half round trips. But I do keep coming back to it, which is something.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:25 AM
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Can this be the report-your-progress thread? I recently topped 4.2 miles running trudging, a new personal best. Last night, however, I drank beer and played an electronic drumset in lieu of aerobic exercise.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:29 AM
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I don't run or cycle, but I did do about 6 - 7 hours of kickboxing training in one day a few weeks back.*

* and then walked with a limp for about a week.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:32 AM
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I drank beer and played an electronic drumset

Does this mean you played Rock Band, Stanley?

||My first grade teacher is now my Facebook friend, and she is busily posting anti-Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin screeds. I am charmed. |>


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:34 AM
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Does this mean you played Rock Band, Stanley?

No, actually. We had a hastily thrown together band practice for an upcoming gig, and there happened to be one of these already set up and amped, so I just played through that, rather than dragging a full drum kit out of the trailer just to break it back down again. The electronic thing sounded hilariously schlocky.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:42 AM
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47: How very Missing Persons of you! (They were a band, you kid on my lawn you.)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:43 AM
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Since I played Rock Band drums I've been meaning to ask you, Stanley, how the experience compares. Playing guitar in these video games bears almost no resemblance to the real thing, IMO, but it seems like the drums are better. Admittedly, my opinion doesn't carry much weight, given that I have probably spent no more than 10 minutes behind an actual set.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:50 AM
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Oh, and congratulations, LB. A particularly impressive feat of endurance for one who's doubly cold-blooded.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:56 AM
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I spent the morning refreshing the other thread, thinking, "Man, people are fed up with LB's biking posts."

I had a personal biking first today, too. I rode my bike five miles to the gym, then got in the pool and swam for an hour. I have this vague idea I might try a mini/baby triathlon at some point in the future (though I'm not at all interested in the running part).


Posted by: Yawnoc | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:01 AM
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49: I was dumbfounded by Rock Band drums and have evolved to muddling through on "Easy". Best I can explain it, I'm used to reading music left to right and the down-flowing "notes" (with no note value! ack!), combined with the locations being all wacky("the hi-hat's on my right?!"), throw me for a loop. That said, the harder settings seem to at least have similar sticking patterns to what's being done in the originals. I stick strictly to singing with Rock Band—not that I'm particularly good at that, but it's more forgiving than the drums.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:01 AM
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Once you get your own Bryan Caplan clonebaby, you can have it do all the Rock Band drum parts for you.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:05 AM
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I recently topped 4.2 miles running trudging, a new personal best.

3.5 miles (at 10 minutes/mile) a few weeks ago. A personal best! Any day now I'm going to beat that, too. You've given me something to shoot for, Stanley.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:05 AM
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51: I like LB's boasting posts.
52: Yeah, the singing is more forgiving. Though on expert it apparently isn't enough to hit the note the singer is supposed to be hitting; you have to include the various warbles and slides, too.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:14 AM
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but "dressing like a slut" to Chasidic men is showing one's elbows or one's collarbone.

In all fairness, collarbones are sometimes pretty attractive. Elbows, not so much.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:17 AM
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Eight hours before a transAtlantic flight and someone finally claimed the center seat next to me. Bastard! Weirdly, a center seat further up the plane opened up, so someone who wasn't so careful to try to snag a spot with extra space now has it.

(Am I the only one who does this?)


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:19 AM
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Let me be the first to congratulate you, LB! You rock!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:27 AM
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collarbones are sometimes pretty attractive

Sometimes.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:30 AM
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My right elbow has a fascination that few can resist.


Posted by: Katisha | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:31 AM
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Look, I can post gross stuff like Apo.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:38 AM
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...like Apo can. It's not a photo of the Apostropher.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:38 AM
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2 Elephants 1 Trunk


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:41 AM
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I, uh, walked to the deli that's further away to get my lunch.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:41 AM
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it's the 40th anniversary of the release of Bitches Brew, and there's an anniversary box set ...

I saw this documentary the other day:

http://www.amazon.com/Miles-Electric-Different-Kind-Blue/dp/B00069FKN2

It (and apparently miles' autobiography) said his wife Betty Davis was responsible for prompting Miles to go electric.


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:41 AM
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Elephant Centipede!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:42 AM
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God, I made the mistake of thinking of a bunny centipede a month or so ago and I can't stop imagining how much cuter that would be.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:44 AM
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64 to 61.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:46 AM
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Relevant.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:48 AM
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Playing guitar in these video games bears almost no resemblance to the real thing, IMO

That's about to change.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:53 AM
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(Am I the only one who does this?)


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:53 AM
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I mean, No.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:53 AM
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71 to 61.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:55 AM
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Bunny Centipede
Advantages: cecotropes, cuteness.
Disadvantages: constantly growing incisors.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 11:57 AM
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61: Is that normal behavior for elephants? I don't want to google for fear of what else might come up in the search.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 12:06 PM
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The real problem with a bunny centipede is that it could eat more than it could possibly digest before a fungus began to grow. Indeed, scientists looking into this problem discovered that the magic number seems to be right around two dozen. This is known as Twenty-four Carrot Mold.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 12:07 PM
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75: Based on the article teo linked to in 69, it's not standard behavior (as it is for rabbits), but not that abnormal either.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 12:10 PM
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A theme is emerging in the blog -- "there is some shit I will not eat." But the elephant will!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 12:13 PM
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Well, if this has become the random thread, I'll note that optimal salary negotiation strategies appear to have some subtle differences for women and men.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 12:15 PM
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78: Brock is not an elephant, peep.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 12:15 PM
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79: Wow.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 12:21 PM
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79: Seems reasonable. Who doesn't want to go into an interview full of pep and vinegar?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 12:38 PM
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79: Oh dear, I recently described a scent to someone as "sandalwoody."


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 1:21 PM
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A sandalwoody is what a guy gets if he really likes the smell of sandalwood.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 1:28 PM
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Or the smell of sandals.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 1:32 PM
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84: Or else maybe he has a foot fetish.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 1:32 PM
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A sandalwoody is what a guy gets if he really likes the smell of sandalwood from playing footsie.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 1:32 PM
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You guys got a little excited, there.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 1:40 PM
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We got toe up.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 1:41 PM
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We got toe up. We
eat throw up. We
joke cock. We
advise Brock.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 1:42 PM
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It (and apparently miles' autobiography) said his wife Betty Davis was responsible for prompting Miles to go electric.

I find it hard to believe it was that simple.

1) Silent Way is more important than BB, which was a straight progression, and JJ and Corner and Pangaea from there
2) the studio editing with Mancero was a large part of the story
3) Hancock and McLaughlin had played with electricity earlier. Hendix inspired everybody.
4) Miles did not have the chops or style to go Ayler or Rollins free jazz, or Coltrane/Dolphy, so if he wanted to free up his game he basically had to get the band around him to free up. Somebody said of BB "Still Miles playing Miles" He was always somewhat percussive.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 2:12 PM
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I augered a hole to 4.7m (personal best!), and another to 4.29m, and carried the augers to the site, which might have been harder. I have biceps I did not have two weeks ago.

Sadly, I wanted to get through the restrictive layer to 5.5m, and also my brilliant PV systems may be set on fire by the park. I approve of the management system, in context, but it's complicating my life.

No hobos this time.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 2:13 PM
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Tony Williams Lifetime, Emergency, May 1969, with Larry Young and McLaughlin may be the first fusion album. Herbie Mann was not in this class but had visited Stax in 1968-69.

Miles wasn't such a great innovator. He was just the best.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 2:26 PM
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92: I am fascinated by your worklife, and envy it bitterly. I just sit at my desk and sulk all day, with intervals of bickering.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 2:35 PM
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94 gets it exactly right.

Thanks for these informational updates, clew. Inspiring and excellent.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 2:49 PM
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But was Clew cool enough to drive this bad boy?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:01 PM
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93: Does that mean I have to give up my favorite Miles Davis anecdote (i.e., the time he responded to some Margaret Dumont type at a dinner party, asking condescendingly what he did, "I changed music about five or six times. What have you done?")?


Posted by: Yawnoc | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:11 PM
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I read Miles Davis's autobiography at about age 13 before ever hearing any of his music except that "Tutu" song that was on VH1 all the time back in the early nineties. Have never been able to get past the conviction it instilled in me that he was the world's biggest asshole.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:20 PM
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98: Has anybody ever denied that Miles Davis was the world's biggest asshole?


Posted by: Yawnoc | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:26 PM
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98: He was an asshole. It's one of those things wherein you can choose to appreciate the art divorced from the artist, or you can choose not to do so.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:27 PM
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100: Even Davis didn't deny it.

I liked his "autobiography," though (actually written by the poet Quincy Troupe, BTW, who's a much nicer guy than Davis was). My favorite parts were the ones describing Davis deliberately winding up Thelonius Monk, who in Miles' own estimation could have crushed him with one thumb if he'd ever been so inclined.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:31 PM
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Davis deliberately winding up Thelonius Monk, who in Miles' own estimation could have crushed him with one thumb if he'd ever been so inclined.

Ha. I like this. It's true. More Thelonius Monk!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:35 PM
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I should really read that book.

My favorite Miles period is Miles in the Sky/ESP/Filles de Kilimanjaro -- on the cusp of crazy revolution, but not actually over the line. This is probably due to my being a generally squishy liberal. I do love BB, though.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:39 PM
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90: :)


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:52 PM
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"I changed music about five or six times. What have you done?"

I have been thinking since I wrote the above comments.
It's complicated.

Miles was a bandleader. I presume he went around NYC, listening to studio and live work, and said I wanna play with that guy. Then he got into the studio and told "that guy" to run with it, see what you can do, more more.

It is really pretty beautiful to listen to where McLaughin goes from "Silent Way" to "On the Corner" And Miles said at every step, "I'm with John, keep up or ship out" The keyboardists and Shorter are fucking spinning. (Mike Henderson is important)

McLauglin without Miles lost his funk.

You listen to the Coltrane complete Prestige you can hear the same thing. Coltrane instantly became one of the most favored session players 55-56 because you can hear him on the tracks thinking:"These guys are fucking slack. Lazy. I'm getting all radical math on their asses, and showing what precise means"
But Coltrane as leader couldn't quite go where he wanted to, until after Miles. (Which was no longer modal)

And so Miles picks up Coltrane, eventually dumps Garland for Bill Evans, and modal is created.

Anyway, McLaughlin is as important to fusion Miles as Coltrane is to 50s Miles. Miles gets credit for recognizing genius and not being scared of it. That is worth a ton. But Miles was not a genius.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:54 PM
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103:Figures.

I can't stand the 2nd quintet.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 3:55 PM
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Thanks, parsimon, LizardBreath. You know, I spend most of the year at a computer at a desk, sulking -- I am in grad school -- and then there's this sudden off-grid noninvasive infrastructure armstrong project. Whoah.

Possibly the worst thing is, there's Lyme disease in the ticks there. I'm covered with DEET, I've got permethrined clothes, but I'm just rolling the dice; and all my field gear goes into the car, and then into whereever I sleep. Also possibly the worst thing, 114F in the shade last day I was there, and I work alone.

If I get attacked by the puma or a meth lab, both well-known in this park, that would really be the worst thing. No, maybe Lyme disease. You know, there are a lot of reasons we invented cities.

Can't use those, Robert! It might be too heavy to get there, it would certainly be too heavy to leave the surrounding soil undisturbed, and full flighting disarranges the soil as it's brought up.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 4:03 PM
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Bitches Brew for me, is McLaughlin. Not his lead playing but the rhythm playing is, on that album, pretty much unsurpassed. So little fusion or electric jazz that came after sustained much, if anything, of that sort of funk. Including the stuff Davis did without McLaughlin.

And re: 93, I'm sure there were probably lots of earlier examples, both in the US and in the UK. Certainly there was a fair bit of electric jazz in the British jazz* scene that Dave Holland and McLaughlin both came out of. Extrapolation predates the Williams/Lifetime album by a good few months.

* Nucleus, the various Canterbury type groups, Graham Collier [Down Another Road is from the same period as Bitches Brew], and I could probably come up with loads of other examples.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 5:02 PM
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Extrapolation predates the Williams/Lifetime album by a good few months.

Huh. I have Extrapolation somewhere. I haven't thought about it in years. Will have to look. Thanks for the reminder!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 5:30 PM
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I like Things We Like.

This has been a PSA.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 5:40 PM
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re: 109

I think the specifically British influence -- which in turn incorporated influences from the Caribbean and India* and, obviously from rock and electric blues --- on late 60s jazz is often underplayed. This is a perpetual nagging thing with me!

* via the likes of Joe Harriot and John Mayer**

** not that John Mayer.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 5:42 PM
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Possibly the worst thing is, there's Lyme disease in the ticks there. I'm covered with DEET, I've got permethrined clothes, but I'm just rolling the dice; and all my field gear goes into the car, and then into whereever I sleep.

My 3-year old niece had Lyme disease recently. From that, I'm convinced that the next-best line of defense is to notice it quickly. Probably there's luck involved, but my impression was that since they caught it so early, it was easily treated and fully cured and didn't become one of these awful lingering things.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 5:49 PM
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I was recently super paranoid that I had gotten Lyme disease.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 5:52 PM
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When life hands you Lyme disease, get Lyme aid.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 5:54 PM
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I think one is actually supposed to take massive amounts of antibiotics.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 5:56 PM
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Clew probably knows more about this than a lot of us, being on the alert, but my impression has been that, as Heebie says, if it's caught early, it can be not too bad.

The head farmer at our CSA got Lyme Disease a couple of years ago, which was awful enough in that he had partial facial paralysis for a few weeks, but he did recover in full.

Clew! Be careful out there. I know it's 114 degrees, but wear a hat? At least you can examine your body for ticks and bites, but the head hair seems vulnerable.

Why are you working alone? This seems like it calls for a team, babe.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 6:06 PM
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(Sorry for the static one-line post, but I'm concerned.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 6:07 PM
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Look, I can post gross stuff like Apo.

Breakfast Burger


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 6:16 PM
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118: Apparently there was an NPR piece recently about the food at county fairs (specific county fairs? dunno). Described was a burger between two glazed doughnuts. Okay, that's gross.

Also chocolate-dipped bacon, but I don't imagine that will garner a gross-out reaction around here.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 6:22 PM
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118: Also from Carl's: foot-long burger.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 6:50 PM
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The exhausted evening tick-check with an undignified* mirror wasn't my favorite part. If you notice the Lyme early, it's not too bad; the horror stories are when the first symptom is late-stage neurological damage... my other half has a lot of New England cousins and is keeping me paranoid.

It does call for a slightly larger team, but I have annoyed my P1, and also I'm working in our home state, which is nothing compared to the cross-continental people, so... just me. Rrrrrrr.

* There's a name for displacing the adjective, which I have forgotten.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 7:22 PM
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113: Me too. Turns out spider bites can also leave something of a bullseye rash.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 7:43 PM
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I think it just counts as a misplaced modifier.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 7:43 PM
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I can vouch for the excellence of clew's hats.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:06 PM
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|
oh and also, my other half and I just moved. Housewarming this Sunday, noon to five, drop in.
From some of the jokes at the last bay area meetup, you should already know where I live. We've tried to kill all the ticks and we're making trifle .
>


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:20 PM
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In an area with enough white-tailed deer, Lyme disease is basically unavoidable. My girlfriend's family lives in Connecticut, and at Thanksgiving last year, I asked for a show of hands of those who had had Lyme disease. Out of a crowd of fifteen, all but two raised their hands, including me and my girlfriend, the sister who owns a house in Old Lyme, and the sister who's had it twice, and ehrlichiosis for good measure.

Lyme is pretty much the first conclusion the doctors in that area jump to if you tell them you have fever and muscle pain, so I don't think any of those cases progressed beyond the first stage. Thank God for tetracycline.


Posted by: Ace-K | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 8:34 PM
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||

Well, in a pomo way, the documentary I just watched was pretty interesting. Camera work from a moving car in and around Minot, ND.

Minot ND has 150 ICBM Silos. Minot has almost a camera on every streetlamp and every tree. Walking funny is considered suspicious behavior. Wandering cats are investigated. No cameras, military personnel, military buildings or infrastructure, no examples of the security measures may be photographed or filmed. This film was cleared by the military, in fact all film was checked and I think the filmmaker was accompanied at all times.

Never has a film been more defined by what it doesn't show. A film that covered paranoia by form and negative content. Fascinating.

|>


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:50 PM
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Clew, I'm visiting my cousins in the desert, but if I weren't far away, I'd love to drop by your housewarming.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 9:56 PM
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On the other hand, this guy says that documentary is a crock.

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/minot_north_dakota_a_city_of_paranoia_and_surveillance/

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/more_on_that_minot_north_dakota_documentary/


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-27-10 10:03 PM
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129:Well, I never claimed it was true or credible, nor do I really care. All 30k Minot residents may resent as they like.

Just, that like the Blair Witch Project, it was a neat exercise in technique and style. That brightly lit cornfield seen out the car window was ominous and disturbing. There is talent here.
...
Agonist on the decline of America

The United States has closed its manned rocket program. In a few months, after retiring the shuttles, the U.S. will no longer have the capability of taking people to or from the International Space Station. The country that put people on the moon can't fly anymore.

Cathedral had its finale tonight. Oh the horror, sexism and war and cruelty and superstition and disease...and Chartres and Amiens and Winchester.

Somebody asked about a Nietschean apocalypse. A Nietschean apocalypse is the whimper of whipped dogs cuddling in a corner for warnth and comfort. I curse my luck to have been born in a time of cowardice, corruption, and decline celebrated as comfort, sentimentality, faux compassion, and security. I have spent my life watching dreams die. I curse my times.

This is the fate of America, a regression to a time very much like the late forties if we are lucky.

Clueless fool. Jacob Davies, a British import to Obsidian Wings, posted this short travelogue made in Chicago in 1948. It made me cry. If only we could return to that optimism and ambition and shared purpose.

And it will get worse. But feel secure, even fascism is beyond us now. We are no longer capable of great evil. Oh joy.

|>


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 12:18 AM
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121: That would be a transferred epithet.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 1:02 AM
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My happy fitness moment: I biked 120 k on Wednesday.

(From Christ/church to Han/mer Spri/ngs, which is a bit dull along SH1, but after the Wai/para Valley is very nice.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 1:23 AM
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The way I heard it: "I changed music about five or six times. What have you done besides being white?"


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 4:42 AM
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Lyme is pretty much the first conclusion the doctors in that area jump to if you tell them you have fever and muscle pain, so I don't think any of those cases progressed beyond the first stage.

This is making me totally paranoid. If I have fever and muscle pain, I assume it's the flu and don't bother seeing a doctor.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 5:24 AM
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134: I know people who have gotten it in (what I guess is) your very town. If you really are worried they can check your blood titers and still treat you now. This happens to dogs all the time.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 6:37 AM
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||

You have to wonder exactly how this research was carried out.

The purpose of this study was to describe the sexual and emotional nature of booty-call relationships by (a) examining the types of emotional and sexual acts involved in booty-call relationships and (b) comparing the frequency of those acts in booty-call relationships to one-night stands and serious long-term relationships.

|>


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 7:42 AM
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The results suggest the booty-call relationship is a distinct type of relationship situated between one-night stands and serious romantic relationships."

You don't say.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 7:47 AM
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130: "The United States has closed its manned rocket program. In a few months, after retiring the shuttles, the U.S. will no longer have the capability of taking people to or from the International Space Station. The country that put people on the moon can't fly anymore."

Not so. The US could put a crew in space in a couple of years on US-built hardware if it was a priority. It isn't. That's not the decline of America, it's the decline of the pork-barrel potlatch model of crewed spaceflight, and that's a very good thing. Recall that NASA wasn't founded to enable access to space, it was founded to wave America's giant techno-cock in the face of the USSR. It really was a potlatch in all but name. A secondary goal for Johnson was industrializing the South. Actual spaceflight was never the driving goal, and that's reflected in the hardware built and the priorities set.

Even today the priorities for the crewed spaceflight program are (1) Spreading money around to the districts of powerful congressmen
(2) International cooperation PR programs
(3) Keeping Russian rocket scientists employed (and away from freelance work for the likes of Iran)
(4) National pride
(5) Spaceflight

Due to this fucked up set of priorities just about every president announces some big exciting program that goes through the same set of stages: Big exciting plans with lots of powerpoint and awesome graphics, modification of the initial plan to accommodate the broadest possible set of interest groups, exploding budget, loss of focus, cancellation. As long as Apollo is the model NASA will never build a cheap and reliable crewed vehicle, because the point of Apollo was to be so bloody expensive and complicated it scared the Kremlin into backing off a bit on the Cold War.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 10:43 AM
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137: But now it's science!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 10:50 AM
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138:Yeah, that's what Cardinal Waleran told Prior Phillip

Damn Cathedral is just a monument to your pride and ambition; a jobs program for Kingsbridge; quarry was graft to keep the Earl from messin with ya;a way to advertise your wool market, and a real inefficient way to glorify God. And you lazy jerk, why do you need 300 foot ceilings to inspire the people anyway? Just do your job.

Better to save the taxes, feed the lepers, and umm, build my palace.

It ain't the Teabaggers. It's the scientists, economists, engineers, pragmatists, liberals and other wonks and beancounters who think poetry and vision are so unnecessary and useless and will inevitably end up with nothing but confusion over why the troglodytes always win. No regrets, they don't have the depth or self-criticism for regrets.

But But the Iraq War was so illogical! So stupid! How could it possibly happen?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 12:12 PM
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140: There is no poetry and vision in endless powerpoint pitches, half-built hardware, and canceled programs.

The US can have a vibrant, active, visionary program of space exploration without all those things. The two Mars rovers are far more exciting and inspirational than the space station. The great observatories program has produced some of the most stunning images ever made. Even more wonderful things could have been done had various robotic exploration programs not been cut to keep the Shuttle flying, or to build the space station. Those two programs have cannibalized numerous projects that would have produced good solid science as well as inspiration.

Make no mistake - I want a US crewed spaceflight program that is dynamic and vigorous. But it's never going to happen until the old model of how to do it is dead and buried, and the managers who believe in it have found other jobs away from NASA.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 12:21 PM
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Better to save the taxes, feed the lepers, and umm, build my palace.

Except for the palace part, I don't disagree with this. How many lepers do you think should starve per cathedral?


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 3:54 PM
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||

But wait Don't we have reason on our side? Not really, you wouldn't know what it is.
MLK knew how to do, the "left" has forgotten

Here is the very heart of the modern Democratic party. and the issues they deem important. This will get millions to the Mall.

|>


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 4:15 PM
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Or maybe dissing Ken Mehlman will fire up the masses?

Or Parking Mandates?

The incendiary rhetoric and cry for social justice, it burns


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 4:24 PM
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Amanda Marcotte is the very heart of the Democratic Party? Hmm.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 4:34 PM
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145:Synecdoche. RTFA, try searching for "cleavage"


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 5:18 PM
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The comments at Amanda's have some funny moments, as a male troll shows up and dares to say:"Wait a minute, I'm personally maiming women?"

The Pandas try to enlighten him.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 5:22 PM
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I have no idea what you're suggesting, bob. Is the thing. That Pandagon should shut up? That we refuse to allow Glenn Beck his rally?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 6:33 PM
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148:parsi, if you were really so confused, you wouldn't be so good at totally making crazy shit up and then attributing it to me.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 6:59 PM
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149: As I said, I can't make out your point.

Meanwhile, I've put in a 9-hour day which culminated in someone emailing to yell at us that we have a Geological Society of America monograph (on the stratigraphy of blah-blah something something Orogen something something, I dunno) listed for sale online for $35 which is still in print and available directly from the publisher (the GSA) for $10, so what the fuck, why aren't we honorable bookmongers instead of being rip-off artists?!?

Y'know, that is just bugging me.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 7:06 PM
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I think I like Shirley Collins False True Lovers 1959 more than her later more famous work. This shit is the pure. AMG won't open for me tonight, and Amazon has zero reviews, but IIRC there are warnings attached to this album as too minimal and stark for mainstream consumption. I like stark.
...
And Stanford has a new article up on Carl Schmitt that seems very good.

But the need for sovereign decision will be greatest in a society torn by serious ideological or social conflict. And if there is no unanimity among social groups as to what situation to perceive as normal or exceptional, the sovereign decision will inevitably have to side with one group's conception of normality against that of another. The sovereign creation of a condition of normality, in other words, constitutes a community's political identity and it is likely to do so through the forcible suppression of those whose conception of normality differs from the sovereign's (D 150-67). The question of the legitimacy of law thus turns on the question of the legitimacy of an identity-constituting sovereign exercise of foundational violence.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 7:58 PM
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Alan Lomax original liner notes for the Collins.

Collins had spent some time with Lomax in the 50s traveling Appalachia doing his thing. She added banjo for some of this work, I guess most British folk was sung acapella. Add the work she did with Davy Graham in 1964, and maybe Carthy wasn't quite as important as I thought.

I don't know if this would help you feel better, pars.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 8:15 PM
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150.2: Oh for crying out loud. Tell them to check out the price spread on bookfinder for any in-print title, and they'll be busy writing outraged emails to booksellers until the end of time.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 8:24 PM
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I don't know what you're referring to. Lomax? Carthy? I've just probably foolishly spent half an hour reading about the Beck rally, or rather its launch party last night at the Kennedy Center, dubbed "America's Divine Destiny." I heard some of the intro to the rally itself live from DC this morning on CSPAN radio, and it was to gag.

The only way to get a sense of this is to see what the mainstream media coverage is like. A person could find it a very grim harbinger indeed. Unless it was in truth pathetic, and nobody paid any attention.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 8:25 PM
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153: True. That was one possible response, out of at least a dozen.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 8:28 PM
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Here's what I want for a reply to that guy right now, which is roughly the truth:

Greetings,

Ah. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. That book was listed online 4 years ago, and we were unaware that it was still offered by the GSA. Given that it's available for $10, we'll be throwing it away. Thank you for the information.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 8:45 PM
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I think I like Shirley Collins False True Lovers 1

Wow, listening to the amazon previews, that's amazing stuff (and normally nothing sounds good to me on the amazon previews). It's really intense.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 9:50 PM
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I have no idea what you're suggesting, bob. Is the thing. That Pandagon should shut up? That we refuse to allow Glenn Beck his rally?

I think the suggestion is that everyone should stop being Obots who worship a golden god and think voting Democratic will make all our dreams come true. The relevance of this critique is left up to you.

98: He was an asshole. It's one of those things wherein you can choose to appreciate the art divorced from the artist, or you can choose not to do so.

Sure, it's okay to be an asshole, but to be literally the WORLD'S BIGGEST asshole? That's something it's hard to ignore.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-28-10 10:07 PM
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Over in Europe we laugh at popular rallies with 10K people - so maybe the most depressing part of it is that these Beckos get so much coverage.


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 3:11 AM
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159: CBS paid a crowd estimating service and they pegged his crowd at 87K + or - 9K.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 5:23 AM
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popular rallies with 10K people

CBS estimates 87K.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 5:24 AM
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161: Apo is pwn'd, + or - 9,000 pwn units.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 5:46 AM
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9 kPwn.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 5:47 AM
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O-Kay, there are two depressing facts about it (but it is hardly a 1M march).


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 6:18 AM
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OTOH you need to take into account the sheer size of the United States, at least five times bigger than any country between Russia and the Atlantic except Germany. If we allow the bastard 90K, that scales to 15k in London, which is, as Earnest says, into why did we bother territory.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 7:47 AM
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Sorry, scales to 18k. Still pathetic.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 7:48 AM
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166

On the third hand the London metro area has twice the population of DC's.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 8:21 AM
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But it wasn't meant to be a local mobilisation.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 8:25 AM
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You know who else had big rallies? Uh huh, that's right.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 10:02 AM
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I curse my luck to have been born in a time of cowardice, corruption, and decline celebrated as comfort, sentimentality, faux compassion, and security.

But look on the bright side, Bob; you have lots of time to comment on blogs! Surely that's worth something.

Someone should've turned the hoses and dogs on yesterday's Becktacular. Let'em have a little of that old-time civil-rights action, just so they didn't feel like they drove to DC for nothing.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 10:18 AM
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Someone should've turned the hoses and dogs on yesterday's Becktacular.

Um.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 10:21 AM
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#171. Sure! Beck likes to fancy himself the White MLK, right? Well, what's a civil-rights struggle without hoses and dogs? That's like a pirate ride at Disney World with no pirates.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 10:38 AM
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Beck would obviously love it if someone turned hoses on his crowd. Couldn't do them a bigger favor.

I think Pandagon is far from the heart of the Democratic party.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 10:48 AM
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172: C'mon, P. Not only is there no justifiable reason for turning the dogs and hoses on them; the last thing needed is to corroborate their deluded notion that they're oppressed by government, significantly more so than anyone else is.

Or, what PGD said.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 10:55 AM
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Meh. Beck, schmeck. I really don't think that "movement" has any staying power. Yeah, it'll probably influence the mid-term elections, but perhaps not as drastically as people seem to believe. It's certainly no challenge to the current oligarchy. At most it will add a few of its leaders to the lower echelons of power. When are we going majority-minority again? 2040? 2050? These assholes are digging their own graves. Beck and Palin and their hangers-on are out to make a quick buck, and they'll make it. But the fix was already in. At most, they're an obnoxious 3-card monte operation on the street in front of the world's biggest and glitziest casino. At some point, they'll get rousted, or a few of them might come in and deal blackjack. Nothing more.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 10:55 AM
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Couldn't do them a bigger favor.

That's what I'm saying. Put the family in the truck, squeeze Granny in the back with the dog, drive all the way to DC, spend a nice, sunny day on the Mall trying to restore honor and all that and there's not a single hose and the only dog is your own. What a failure!


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 10:55 AM
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What a failure!

I know, right? It worked out fine.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:01 AM
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So if Beck would support public transport, he would have an outside chance of attracting something like a real crowd ;-)


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:03 AM
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there no justifiable reason for turning the dogs and hoses on them

Good customer service? No?

Well, there are plenty of justifiable reasons for turning the dogs and hoses on those slobs and grifters, but if you mean that it isn't politic to do so, then I, reluctantly, agree with you. Still, I hate to see a man go away disappointed.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:09 AM
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180: I'm trying, Populuxe, really, but my humorlessness about them hasn't abated quite yet. I may get there.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:17 AM
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At most, they're an obnoxious 3-card monte operation on the street in front of the world's biggest and glitziest casino. At some point, they'll get rousted, or a few of them might come in and deal blackjack.

Fantastic metaphor for the role of popular movements in the U.S. political system.

I do think the Tea Party will end up dealing a few card games eventually. They'll put a few people in the House and at least one of them will be smart enough to worm their way into the system.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:18 AM
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Meanwhile, let's look at the media coverage. It is literally not possible to get better press than this. What an inspirational bunch of folks!


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:31 AM
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It's Beck's 'reclaiming the country for Christianity' rhetoric that I find quite disturbing, to put it mildly. One can view the rise of the Tea Party with a cold eye in terms of its long-term chances policy-wise, as Natilo and any number of others do, and as long as the Tea Party stayed more or less out of the values arena -- remaining roughly libertarian -- we can handle it (i.e. they're doomed), but the fundamentalist, theocratic crap is unacceptable.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:35 AM
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You have to keep in mind that we will be until 2012 at least in double-digit unemployment pushing 20%+ underemployment with Obama asking people to be patient and Obama's henchmen Geithner & Bernanke spitting in the faces of the suffering. It could be economically worse, and it could crash.

Maybe the mass Gulf Coast pollution deaths and deformities will start next year. Again, Obama will just laugh and get another campaign contribution from BP.

Maybe Republicans will win the house, but I am not sure it will matter. With this economy, they can find enough Blue Dogs who want to run from Obama to get the Congressional scandal machine going.

Go read Neiwert. The Nazis weren't 75% at their start. It really takes only 10%, determined, organized, and ruthless to take over a country. The process liberal delusionals cannot even conceive how this is possible, despite the evidence of history.

As I said, Stanford has added Carl Schmitt. A "democracy" is always ruled by a minority. Liberals, by seeking a majority, make it inevitable.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:35 AM
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Go read Neiwert. The Nazis weren't 75% at their start. It really takes only 10%, determined, organized, and ruthless to take over a country. The process liberal delusionals cannot even conceive how this is possible, despite the evidence of history.

Last week, Bob, you thought everyone should just ignore the wingnuts.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:39 AM
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And the plutocrats don't give a flying fuck who runs the country as long as they get profits.

Jesus, so much of this bullshit discounting the Tea Party sounds familiar.

I think the only way it doesn't take over is an equally virulent counterforce like we had in the 30s, but Obama and the Democrats are passionate about preventing such a movement. Why is an exercise left...


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:40 AM
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185:WRONG

We shouldn't argue with them. We shouldn't discuss them.

What we should do about them is not something I discuss in public forums. Another exercise...


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:41 AM
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Just ten percent. How many cops are there?

When the economy goes off the cliff and the streets get bloody and Big Bizness asks "Who can restore order?"

Obama goes to Colorado Springs and says "Why can't we all get along?"

The left says:"Well, as long as we don't have to hurt anybody..."

Beck says:"We have guns, militias, golf clubs in every town, and we are not only willing, but fucking eager"


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:52 AM
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Why did FDR right off the starting blocks, against the advice of his cabinet including Frances Perkins, put a CCC chapter in hundreds of counties with tens of thousands of hungry desperate young men? (With military discipline and management)

Gee, just compassion, I spose...


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:56 AM
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If it comes to civil war, I think the militias on the right will defeat the vegan feminists on the left.

Thinking about fascism, I could see the U.S. getting to the stage where the somewhat authoritarian but establishment right-wing government representing big business interests takes over, but not all the way to the popular radical fascists. Hindenburg, but not Hitler.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 11:58 AM
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I hate it when you get hysterical like this, bob. Look, I'm concerned about the theocratic tendencies of the Beck- and Palin-led movement. Hysteria, however, isn't constructive. Sorry to want to be constructive, but there it is.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 12:04 PM
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pars, the bloggers calling for a trillion more stimulus, or a WPA/CCC/PWA, or a reform of the electoral college or end to the filibuster or proportional representation or new taxes on the ultra-rich sure look pretty calm rational great policy but are utterly delusional. It ain't gonna happen and is not constructive.

Electoralism has been a little better but Colorado proved there isn't much hope there. Big Money, after Citizen United are doing it right, buying local judges and sheriffs and city councils and state legislatures in preparation for the larger takeover.

Destruction is the order of the day. The Revolution is on. The good guys are losing.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 12:25 PM
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The Tea Party is nothing new. It's the same theocratic, neo-Confederate faction of the Republican Party that has always been there and has always been pandered to (where always = since they left the Democratic Party in the wake of the Civil Rights Act). They aren't libertarian except for guns and taxes.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 12:27 PM
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193: Apo, do you think that as long as the public at large (whatever that means) pretty much ignores them, it'll be okay? I do not like to be concerned about Beck's rally, but it seems to me that we haven't quite seen people gathering en masse to shout Hallelujah to the prospect of a Christian Nation until now.

I know these are silly, scaredy-cat questions, but what do you think? You're from a region of the nation that's a bit more used to it than this one is.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 12:44 PM
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|| (that is, pausing the thread as it currently exists, and returning to the subject of the OP

I took a medium-short-ish bike ride today (20 miles) and afterwards (thinking about the triathlon yesterday that I entirely failed to enter) thought, "huh, maybe I'll tack on a run". Stormcrow will be glad to know that shit was hard, although the fact that it's 90 degrees and I hadn't really eaten anything may have played a role in that.

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 12:44 PM
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Maybe the thread title is actually a bible verse. I'm not familiar with the book of bitches however.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 12:53 PM
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192.1: I disagree that it's delusional. A reform of the electoral college and an end to the filibuster (not sure the latter is desirable) may have no chance of happening. Additional stimulus and a WPA type of program (both endorsed by the NYT recently) could have a chance, pending the results of the midterm elections. Thinking rationally about what is possible given the structures in place is not a futile exercise.

I am aware that big money runs the country. We can work to curb its influence, through campaign finance reform and other measures; picking up guns invites a kind of chaos that I do not want.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 1:02 PM
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184: Go read Neiwert. The Nazis weren't 75% at their start. It really takes only 10%, determined, organized, and ruthless to take over a country. The process liberal delusionals cannot even conceive how this is possible, despite the evidence of history.

But I can Bob, and I know it requires a special case of being 'levered into power' to get a Hitler into office in the first place. If Beck runs for Prez in 2012 he'll need assistance from the Republicans to get elected. We're a long way away from that.

194: I do not like to be concerned about Beck's rally, but it seems to me that we haven't quite seen people gathering en masse to shout Hallelujah to the prospect of a Christian Nation until now.

Shouting Hallelujah for a Christian Nation has been going on for a long time now. See the Moral Majority. Nothing has come of it so far.

We're in a lot of trouble, and it could get worse, but we're not to the bad part yet, assuming we ever are going to get there. The situation would have to get a lot worse before things started to really fall apart.

max
['Don't panic.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 1:36 PM
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No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Bitches.


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 1:36 PM
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Destruction is the order of the day. The Revolution is on. The good guys are losing.

More performance art, like that "documentary" about Minot? Silly Apocalypsians.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 3:08 PM
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This essay really gets bob, I think.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 3:38 PM
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I'm not up on this - I've been ignoring it - but is anyone challenging Beck's use of the term "Christian Nation" on its face? One prong of the argument is obviously "theocracy bad" but isn't another prong "and ur doin it wrong?"


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 3:49 PM
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Apo, do you think that as long as the public at large (whatever that means) pretty much ignores them, it'll be okay?

No, I don't. As I said before, I'm completely pessimistic about the next two decades or so here. I think we're heading into an extended period of domestic terrorism and political violence. This sort of thing is going to become commonplace, and I have very little faith in the common sense and decency of "the public at large".


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 3:51 PM
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200,201:And as the streetlights go out and the teachers get laid off and the hospitals close their doors and the roads get unpaved Bio & Mini say nothing to see here, move along. Oh and look at the crazy man.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 5:06 PM
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What we should do about them is not something I discuss in public forums.

Standpipe has another blog? Why am I always the last to learn these things?


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 5:31 PM
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202: is anyone challenging Beck's use of the term "Christian Nation" on its face? One prong of the argument is obviously "theocracy bad" but isn't another prong "and ur doin it wrong?"

If you allude to the fact that this nation was in fact founded on a principle of separation of church and state, that the much-vaunted founding fathers weren't exactly straight-up Christians, and so on, yeah, that's been mentioned plenty. The Christianists turn it around in much the same way that they rework a reading of the bible in order to champion Creationism, decry homosexuality, and all the rest.

It's part of the reason they alarm me somewhat: they're irrational. They misquote, misinterpret, and make things up whole cloth.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 6:52 PM
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I guess I should further explain my inner map of the arguments. I fit the fact that the founders didn't actually create a theocracy into my "theocracy bad" territory, and the tortured reading of the bible into the "ur doin it wrong" hinterlands. I'm not really an expert in doin the new testament right, but there are a lot of churches in this country and there are probably some smart people in them with big bleeding hearts like mine. In fact, there are a lot of liberal denominations out there. I guess I'd hope that some of the people in those denominations would write op eds, and then I'd read them and feel all fired up and satisfied.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 8:28 PM
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I mean, that they are doing what Jesus wants is, I think, the self-perceived strength of the new conservative populists. Attack them there, make them question it, and they lose purpose. And I think it's not an impossible attack.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 8:46 PM
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I honestly don't know what the church(es) have to say about this. I haven't heard anything significant, no. Of course, this turn on the part of Beck et al. to an overtly Christianist theme is slightly new. Yes, Palin and some others have gone on about being on a mission from God, but it hasn't been a coordinated message, I don't think, until now.

The church(es) are divided over gay marriage, certainly: how do you speak for tolerance from the pulpit when your church may have censured a pastor in California for performing gay marriages? Um.

I suspect that many of the Beckites are products of megachurches tending toward prosperity theology: you're not going to get cautionary words about what Jesus wants from them.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 9:00 PM
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I could see the U.S. getting to the stage where the somewhat authoritarian but establishment right-wing government representing big business interests takes over, but not all the way to the popular radical fascists. Hindenburg, but not Hitler.

And with this statement, you have accurately predicted the events of thirty years ago. Personally, I'm worried about what happened after Hindenburg.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 9:08 PM
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I suspect that many of the Beckites are products of megachurches tending toward prosperity theology: you're not going to get cautionary words about what Jesus wants from them.

I suspect you're right, but I don't see why a leader from a different church couldn't challenge the notion that the Beckites or tea partiers speak the words of Jesus. Rather than just ceding that debate.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-29-10 10:29 PM
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211- it is with Christians as it is with muslims, they are misguided on their faith but shouldn't be called to 'correct' the stupidities other people shout out of a so called 'inspiration' of that same faith.

I also do not want to feel the obligation to express my 'horror' just because there is a moron that has something in common with me that says something horrific. So why should they?


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 1:10 AM
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Slacktivist is very good at contrasting Jesus with the right-wing version of Christianity. On the other hand, who ever pays any attention to good bloggers?


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 3:03 AM
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206: The Christianists turn it around in much the same way that they rework a reading of the bible in order to champion Creationism, decry homosexuality, and all the rest.

The Christianists have considerably more support for their views in the text of the Bible than they do in the text of the Constitution. They assume that people who lived a long time ago must have been troglodytes like them, or worse, and in the case of the Bible they are largely correct.

But in some ways it's embarrassing how little we've advanced in the U.S. since the country was founded.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 6:09 AM
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Whiggist.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 6:43 AM
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Tangentially, Sarah Palin's tweet about Saturday's rally mistook Beck Hansen for Glenn Beck and used the word "sheeple" in earnest. Ha, I say! Ha!


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 7:22 AM
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Said tweet.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 7:23 AM
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text's suggestion isn't bad, but something similar is already going on. There is a quiet war within Christianity in the US, with the loud and angry prosperity theology/christian nationalist/hellfire and damnation christians on one side and the liberation theology/social justice/loving kindness christians on the other. You hear a hell of a lot more from the angry self-righteous side than from the other, in no small part because the adherents of gentle christianity tend to spend their time actually helping people while their opponents spend their time shouting and judging.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 7:56 AM
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I found it amazing when I read about William Sloane Coffin's role in the US of the 1960s. A man of God showing up on TV shows all over the place, on the cover of magazines, possibly the best-known man of God in America except Billy Graham, allowed to put forth the idea that he was representing Christianity in general and that Christianity was not on the side of the US military? Wow.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 8:18 AM
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Robert Drinan

Daniel Berrigan


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 8:53 AM
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Yeah, the liberal mainline Protestant denominations have really fallen off the face of the earth as a political force since the sixties. I'm not sure why -- I don't know, but maybe membership is way down? My aunt has always been seriously involved in her church (like, one of the volunteers that's running her congregation), and it's the kind of mainline Protestant church that used to be a liberal political force. Her kids, on the other hand, all fortysomethings, are mostly non-church goers, and the one who is a churchgoer is now a conservative Catholic.

But I don't actually know the statistics.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 9:16 AM
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Active membership in the mainline Protestant churches has fallen dramatically since the 60s, but it's also worth noting that a very substantial majority of US Christians don't hold the Christianist views of a Glenn Beck.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 9:24 AM
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222: I wonder if what's happened is that while there are plenty of Christians who aren't hard-right conservatives, they tend to be in organizations led by hard-right conservatives -- that Christian leadership swung politically right since the 60s much harder than the population did.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 9:33 AM
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Funny, I didn't know Glenn Beck was a Mormon. Apparently there's some tsuris among rightwing Christian groups on whether to back him as a conservative, or withdraw the hem of their garments from him as a heretic.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 9:35 AM
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I think that describes the Catholic church, where much of the leadership (not all!) is to the right of the active parishoners. In my own mainline denomination, the leadership is probably slightly to the left of the active membership of the Church as a whole, but that's because the membership of the church trends so old.

Anyhow, there are lots of us liberal Christians out there, and lots of folks, including evangelicals, who are opposed to the right wing attempts to coopt Christianity. I'm somewhat encouraged by recent trends in this area.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 9:42 AM
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I'm somewhat encouraged by recent trends in this area.

I'm not. But I think that to some degree, decent Christians have been replaced in our public discourse by decent secular folks (whether Christian or otherwise). LB's narrative in 221 might be an example of this.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 9:49 AM
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decent Christians have been replaced in our public discourse by decent secular folks

And there's also the narrative where left-wing Christians are presented in the media as 'secular folks' -- remember Ogged talking about Howard Dean as being fundamentally uncomfortable with religion (despite the fact that back on our planet, he's a regular churchgoer), the way Obama's Christianity gets ignored, the way people talk about Democrats generally as secular and forget that our last two Democratic presidents were evangelical Christians, and so on. So even where political left-wing Christians exist, they get erased as Christians.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 10:02 AM
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Shouting Hallelujah for a Christian Nation has been going on for a long time now. See the Moral Majority. Nothing has come of it so far.

And anthropogenic climate change has been going on for a long time now. Not many people have drowned in consequence yet.

And so on.

The new American fascism (which will not recapitulate any previous version exactly, but looks most like the Portuguese type so far) is not yet a proximate danger. This is why it might be a good idea to do something about squashing it before it becomes one


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 10:26 AM
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I was amazed to see one of my friends - who is a "true"* conservative and a devout Christian - get attacked left and right by all of his friends (this is on Facebook of course, so let's use the term friend loosely) for posting something about how he supported Park51 because to do otherwise would to be go against the principles of the Constitution (which protected his own right to worship). The vehemence, hate, and ignorance displayed in the comments saddened me (and I think him). I think he definitely fits in the category of decent Christian - he responded to all of their claims with a four paragraph long comment of biblical citations explaining why the mosque needs to be allowed to stay and Americans need to be tolerant of Muslims.

Although of course I've been hearing all the reporting on the TERROR MOSQUE, it's always different for me when I see people that I tangentially know being such bigots (thus this lame comment).

*Ie, none of this Beck bs.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 10:26 AM
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explaining why the mosque Park51 needs to be allowed to stay

I'm peeved that their damn language has infected me.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 10:29 AM
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Funny, I didn't know Glenn Beck was a Mormon.

And I didn't know Sarah Palin had a new book coming out so quickly on the heels of the last one.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 11:32 AM
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I also do not want to feel the obligation to express my 'horror' just because there is a moron that has something in common with me that says something horrific. So why should they?

Because persuasion works and has real consequences? Or do you think the tea partiers were the authors of their own convictions? Those who don't deign to refute their opponents will lose to them, and probably deserve it.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 12:03 PM
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||

If opposing counsel on this case does not start behaving like a grownup, I may have to go out to Queens and start smacking him. We've been settled in principle for about three months, quibbling about wording for the first two, then quibbling about the length of an adjournment for another two weeks. Two weeks ago, I send him an executed stipulation with the terms we've agreed on. It takes him two weeks to return it to me. Oh, he accidentally signed an earlier version, with the wrong dates for the adjournment. Whoopsie. If I send the right version again, he'll sign that one.

Honestly -- I have work to do. Remembering that this thing isn't done yet and I have to keep telephoning this fool is taking valuable mental ToDo space.

|>


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 12:23 PM
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If that's your biggest problem right now with opposing counsel, you're in a pretty good place.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 12:27 PM
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231: Remember, every public appearance she makes now is in one way or another, an extension of a book tour. She's always going to have one out or coming out soon.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 12:27 PM
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234: Yeah, it's not big, just petty and pointless.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 1:33 PM
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236: New mouseover?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 1:34 PM
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And now the fucker's called me back because he wants to renegotiate the terms of the settlement. Which has been reflected in a document that he agreed to sign and has had a copy of since 8/13. Jesus H. Christ.

He's not getting the change he wants, either -- no way my client's agreeing to it.

It's funny, most difficult opposing counsel hijinks I don't mind all that much. This "We have a deal, I'll sign the stip," "I'm out of town for a week, but I'll get it signed and get it back to you" "Here it is" "Whoops, wrong document without the terms we agreed to" "Oh wait, maybe I won't" routine and I'm incoherent with rage. Something about his timing is pressing my buttons.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 3:01 PM
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227

... the way Obama's Christianity gets ignored, ...

Perhaps because he gives the impression he is just going through the motions.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 7:41 PM
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Something about his timing is pressing my buttons.

Dude sounds like a good lawyer?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 7:42 PM
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239: Perhaps because he gives the impression he is just going through the motions.

Keep on telling me how a "real" Christian should act, James, because it makes me puke.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 7:56 PM
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One thing I look forward to is watching the inevitable break-up and denunciations and fan-factional warfare of Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck. Has Palin ever managed to share a stage gracefully? No.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 8:14 PM
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241

Keep on telling me how a "real" Christian should act, James, ...

How would I know? There aren't a lot of open agnostics or atheists in politics but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of fake Christians.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 8:23 PM
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243: James, you're usually wrong in much less incoherent ways. Do try to keep up.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 8:30 PM
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238 -- I've been to court on less than that, in NJ, and got the settlement enforced.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 8:34 PM
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and affirmed on appeal.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 8:40 PM
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240: No, that's kind of why I'm pissed. I don't mind someone playing hardball for a reason; this dude is just jerking me around because he doesn't know what he's doing. The settlement we agreed to solves his clients' problem completely.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 8:45 PM
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245, 246: Oh, if it doesn't settle it's no thing; I have to do some more briefing, but there's no real chance of the court ordering anything but what's in the settlement. What's annoying me is just the waste of time and the useless pointscoring.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 8:49 PM
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What's annoying me is just the waste of time and the useless pointscoring.

Another victory for the billable hour.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 9:05 PM
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What's annoying me is just the waste of time and the useless pointscoring.

Tired of unfogged, are you?


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 9:11 PM
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249 -- Heh, my reaction was sort of opposite: 'LB's client isn't paying by the hour.'


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 08-30-10 9:42 PM
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