Re: Less is more Fewer is more difficult.

1

Could you play this? I don't know anything about drums, but I've always found that very impressive.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10- 3-10 11:45 PM
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have you tried subdividing? in this case, physically saying the 8th notes in your mouth as you play the rhythms.

our instructors told us to say "dut dut dut dut...." to as we played to keep in time, especially during rests, but also during times when we were playing to keep from rushing. It might fulfill your need to play those "ands."

Ok, the truth is, we said "dick dick dick dick...." for the eighth notes.

Oh, the real truth is that we said "lick dick dick dick..." and we thought it was clever. it was high school.


Posted by: JP Villanueva | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 12:06 AM
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I had the same problem with "Down on the Street" by the Stooges, the first track on Fun House. Quarter notes on the high hat are surprisingly hard when anything else is going on.


Posted by: mealworm | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:29 AM
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I always struggle with quarter note triplets [crotchets, for us Euro types], especially against even quarters [crotchets]. And half-note [minim] triplets are even worse. Even with all the usual tricks -- dividing into 6, or 12, etc -- it's still a bugger to nail the timing when sight reading.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 3:43 AM
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8th or 16th note triplets, on the other hand, are a doddle.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 3:43 AM
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I heard Stanley has like 32nd note goddamn triplets.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 6:00 AM
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1: Uh, parts of it? I think he's on a slave (double-kick) pedal, which I'm admittedly not proficient at playing.

2: That's a technique I associate with marching band (though we never got beyond saying "dut", sadly). Tapping it out right now, it doesn't seem to help. But I suspect it would with some practice. I recently spoke to a (moderately famous band's) drummer who was surprised to hear that I sometimes play live with a metronome, adding that he always, always, always just counts, "1, 2, 3, 4", etc.

4: Crotchets? Huh. Words.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 6:39 AM
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he always, always, always just counts, "1, 2, 3, 4", etc.

5? Right?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 6:57 AM
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8: He's not in a prog-rock band, Mobers.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 6:59 AM
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I've always liked and been amused by the crotchet/quaver/etc. terminology (Yes, Moby, by "etc." I do mean five!) and yet I've never tried to use it in a musical context. I don't think I really verbalize note lengths when sight-reading either, though I'm also not a percussionist and also also haven't been playing much lately.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:01 AM
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9: 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:04 AM
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Then 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4?

I think we've been over this before, but I don't get time keeping in music. I remember long discussions with a music teacher trying to get a reasonable definition of a "note." I was looking for something like 1 second.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:08 AM
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12: a half note at 120bpm is one second. There you go!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:11 AM
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Two words: lignocellulosic biomass!


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:11 AM
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Generally most classical guitar music -- the stuff I read most often -- pre. Romantic period, tends to use fairly predictable rhythmic patterns that divide nicely, so I don't really bother counting much with that. But once you get to the mid 19th c. and the composers starting get all Schubert on yo' ass, you start getting melodies in compound time played against bass or chordal lines played in simple time. I still suck at it, though.

e.g.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvpnNoC6hyw

which is quite a lovely piece. Couldn't find a good video of it, but you can hear the melody runs against the timing of the chords/bass notes.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:13 AM
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13: That would depend on the time signature, actually. (Which I say bitterly, because I was angling for a similar joke but hanging myself up on the beats-per-minute-vs.-time-signature question.)


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:14 AM
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Four words: Deep fried lignocellulosic biomass!


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:14 AM
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Yeah the quarters are tough. Eighths can just be hit every time something else is being hit too, but having to turn it on and off again makes you think too much.

I tried to learn "Red Barchetta" back when I was frustrating myself with Rush. Same deal, but on the ride. I think I repeated just the hand patterns for a while, then the ride and the foot for a while, then the hands again, etc.


Posted by: Mo Macarbie | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:14 AM
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17: Yummy!


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:17 AM
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16: Moby's not in a prog band.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:22 AM
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I'm sure I've mentioned here before that I have some friends that managed to sneak some 11/8 time into a house track. This is what happens when Pat Metheny fans discover ecstasy, I suppose.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:25 AM
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Does prog rock use a different time signature? I really don't know, even thought I have Roxy Music on my iPod. (Is that Prog rock?)


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:25 AM
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re: 22

Most rock music is religiously 4/4 time [or 12/8 I suppose, sometimes]. Except prog rock bands who sometimes venture into odd time sigs; sometimes just for the bloody sake of it.

Zappa was fairly big on complicated time signatures, too.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:29 AM
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22: prog rock is known for using lots of time signatures and especially for switching time signatures in the middle of a song. This is because they are nerds.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:30 AM
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Moby is clearly not in a prog band.


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:30 AM
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This is because they are nerdshorrible, horrible people.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:32 AM
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27

I hate love strike-through puns.


Posted by: Earnest O'Nest | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:34 AM
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OT: I think I'm going to write my legislator about this law. I want to be sure it covers stabbing the head, not just shooting.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:36 AM
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I wonder about 12/8. It's certainly 12/8 if you're trying to program a drum machine, but when humans play a Texas shuffle do they actually call it 12/8 or just a swingin' 4/4 with triplets and stuff?


Posted by: Mo Macarbie | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:37 AM
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I wonder about 12/8.

I do know that if you keep insisting that 12/8 is the same as 3/2, your music teacher will never be glad to see you.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:40 AM
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I knew that the Grateful Dead song The Eleven was in 11/8, but didn't know til I started poking around that Estimated Prophet is in 7/4.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:40 AM
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re: 29

I've seen shuffle and similar rhythms notated both ways. I don't know if there's any consensus as to which is correct.

Wiki has:


In general, where music with a swing meter is required, musicians in the jazz tradition will prefer to read music written in common time and played with a swing, while musicians in the classical tradition will prefer to read music written in compound time and played as written. However, most jazz musicians will dispute whether music played this way truly has a swing feel.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:41 AM
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Estimated Prophet


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 7:48 AM
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32: Yeah, that's my experience, too. This is pretty typical for a jazz drum chart, and it doesn't even tell you to swing. (Also: note that it's like, "Please phone in the drum part within these parameters.")

This spells it out explicitly and would seem to be from some beginner's book on How To Read Jazz Charts.

I'm wondering if years from now aliens will discover the remnants of our civilization and wonder how anyone ever got down to ONE e and a TWO e and a THREE e and a FOUR.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:04 AM
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I've ended up really counting with the 1 e and a stuff when I've tried* to read bebop heads, which are, for someone used to reading classical parts and rock guitar tab, a syncopated nightmare.

* 'tried' being the operative word, here.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:08 AM
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a syncopated nightmare

If I drink too much coffee after dinner, I get those.


Posted by: Opinionated Scott Joplin | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:14 AM
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21: I have this funny memory of a musicologist friend saying with glee that bordered on madness in his eye, "Valley of the Dolls is the best movie ever because the theme song is in 11/8!!!" (Or 17/8 maybe. I don't know. As many times as I try and tap it out, it might as well be in 1/8 with quite a lot of measures, for all the sense I can make of it. I seem to lose my place around 9. Alright, it's 17/8. Did you think Wikipedia didn't have a page called "List of musical works in unusual time signatures? BECAUSE IT DOES.)


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:36 AM
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37: what's that Bo Nilsson trying to prove, is what I want to know.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:39 AM
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39

Beyond the Valley of the Dolls is the best movie ever.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:43 AM
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39 is actually correct.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:44 AM
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Heteronormatively speaking.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:50 AM
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Beyond the Hidden Valley could be a documentary about ranch dressing, but it seems it's already the name of some rock album.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:52 AM
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The nice thing about Russ Meyer is that the valley was never hidden and the hills never hidden very well or for very long.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:58 AM
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I like "beyond the valley of" as an intensifier sometimes.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:59 AM
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Beyond the valley of the wizard cocksucker.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 9:04 AM
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In Wisconsin.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 9:06 AM
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I'd suggest that this is in the running for Unfogged's Whitest Thread, but that would be racist.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 10:20 AM
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It's got rhythm.
It's got music.
Who could ask for anything more?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 10:23 AM
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49

It's certainly the hardest thing I've tried to nail since

Slackers.

Arent you single now, stanley?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 11:24 AM
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Hey, come to think of it, will, wouldn't you know a lot of newly single people whose fortunes need help getting spent? Because I'm willing to help.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 12:01 PM
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50:

I'm not doing my job if I do.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 12:29 PM
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Rory was trying to play some classical piece with a funky time signature a few weeks ago. She was explaining the whole difficulty (and I think it might even have switched somewhere in the middle) and I nodded a lot and smiled a lot and regretted my musical illiteracy.

She has also taken to Green Day quite enthusistically as of late, which is especially encouraging in that it's not Justin Bieber or Taylor Swift. And then I regretted my musical lack of coolness with which to offer her further recommendations.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:00 PM
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52: Just look at neb's playlists.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:07 PM
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to offer her further recommendations

My Chemical Romance's The Black Parade.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:26 PM
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52: further recommendations

Working backward:

Green Day => Operation Ivy => The Specials => Toots & the Maytals => The Skatalites => Fats Domino => Louis Armstrong => [gets a little fuzzy here] => Memphis Jug Band


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:37 PM
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I wanted to link to that bit in High Fidelity where the Emo record store guy makes recommendations off of Green Day, but I don't have audio to be sure I'm finding the right part. I think this is it, though.


Posted by: persistently visible | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:37 PM
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52: Gang of Four.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:39 PM
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My 9-year old found "Every Day is Halloween" instructive after a discussion about wearing fancy clothes.

Green Day is a Stiff Little Fingers retread. Maybe Pixies, or The Clash. Ska's not a bad idea for kids, include a few Jamaican oldies. I think of Ska as local covers of Motown and soul more than rock, but I wasn't there.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:42 PM
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pv: you are correct and the guy notes in particular The Clash and Stiff Little Fingers.

But really, I'm sure Rory would prefer Gang of Four and, like, DNA.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:44 PM
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Alternately, Buzzcocks, Stiff Little Fingers, The Strike, Dog Faced Hermans, The Clash, Chumbawamba, The Raincoats, L7, The Business, The Breeders, The Pixies, The Sweet, Joan Jett/Runaways, Against Me, The Pist and, of course, CRASS. That should just about cover all possible Green Day bases.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:45 PM
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58: a few Jamaican oldies

The Trojan ska collections are quite good, but Desmond Dekker, the early Peter Tosh/Wailers releases and the Skatalites are probably going to be particularly accessible if you've only heard vocal-oriented rock up to this point.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:47 PM
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I really like early reggae, I'll post a mix in the next few days. IME people like it even when recordings are suboptimal.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:51 PM
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Heck, even Annette Funicello does ska


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 2:57 PM
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You know what I recommend? Get her some Fat Wreck Chords compilations, a quick and easy way to sample multiple artists on a single disc.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 4:01 PM
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Gang of Four are objectively* miles better than SLF and The Clash.

* i.e. from my subjective [but fucking correct!] point of view


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 4:09 PM
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64 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 4:34 PM
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Get her some at Wreck Chords compilationsmixes by neb, a quick and easy way to sample multiple artists on a single disc.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 4:39 PM
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Would it be an unforgiveable pun if I said said you guys rock?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 5:47 PM
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"Siren Bang" would be a good name for a Gang of Four tribute band.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 5:58 PM
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I had one of those odd moments of jealousy/six-degrees-of-separation things re: Gang of Four, recently.

When I met my ex-g/f she was helping some friends of hers who managed an up and coming Glasgow band, by doing publicity for one or two of their gigs. One of the guys in that band is now _in_ Gang of Four. Bastard.

It's like finding out someone you know has somehow joined the 1970 Brazil team, or something.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 6:15 PM
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65: aw hells naw. don't fuck with the only band that really matters, dude.

and I pretty much endorse natilo's suggestions.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:14 PM
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don't fuck with the only band that really matters, dude.

? Nobody was talking about Newcleus.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:16 PM
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also, if you are looking for weird time signatures in rock, head for some classic ZZ top, particularly tejas. stanley, why don't you cover "snappy kakkie" sometime.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:17 PM
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Stanley, have you ever covered Quantum Jump's "Lone Ranger"?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:19 PM
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That sounds like a horse breeder who forgot that studs can't answer questions verbally.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:23 PM
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2: JPV! Since the last time you showed up here, I have recommended your blog to one person and your former company to another.

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OT: For all you NPR/Marketplace haters.

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Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 8:41 PM
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Stanley, have you ever covered Quantum Jump's "Lone Ranger"?

Nope. I'm listening to that song for the first time ever.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 9:40 PM
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Careful,, It lkead me to Vamoire Weekedn doing Ça Plane pOur mOi to aZFerencg criwed,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-zDCBNpMnY

Tehy hab bakks,



Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 10:12 PM
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76.2: Thanks for the link, Witt, but I think he barely began to get at what's wrong with that show. I believe it was apo who called it "an infomercial for capitalism".

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Arthur Penn fans: In memoriam I put his short film The Highest, from the Olympics film Visions of Eight, up on YouTube. You should totally watch it.
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Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 4-10 10:19 PM
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78. I would like to say I have no idea what happened there but I can't. I should stick by my rule: always go to bed after taking Ambien, especially when I feel like it isn't working.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10- 5-10 4:09 PM
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