Re: Skrilla

1

Two. One can be little.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:19 PM
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HOW BIG A BOAT ARE WE TALKING?


Posted by: NOAH | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:20 PM
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How many boats does one man need?

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:27 PM
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Well if you had more money but didn't desire a boat you could spend it on charity for people who really need it, thus maximizing the utility of both the buyer of the wine (who is willing to pay the price) yourself, and maybe someone else (who could now benefit from the charitable transfer), and . . . . Oh, I can't fucking take it.

The answer is: You have two options. Either one large ocean-going sailing yacht, or a smaller motorboat and canoe for one's lake house. Those are the options you have. The end.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:27 PM
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I think I'd have one of those wood-paneled speedboats that show up in that Indiana Jones movie. Just one.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:30 PM
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ANSWER IN CUBITS PLEASE


Posted by: NOAH | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:31 PM
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Should I have known what "skrilla" meant before consulting the Google?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:34 PM
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Do the people to whom your wine would be accessible if its price was lowered want your wine?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:37 PM
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7: I learned it from a former rockstar-wannabe roommate who once had a to-do list, on which the first step was "Make dat skrilla". I continue to find this hilarious as a to-do-list item.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:37 PM
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According to this listing, it would cost $630,000.00 Euros per week to rent the Turama, so if you wanted a megayacht you really would have to sell a shitload of wine.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:39 PM
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God, I love that website. Who wants to book over the internet a yacht charter vacation for 12 people, for only $300,000.00/week?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:44 PM
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If anyone out there feels like they're making too much money, I'd be glad to take some of it off of their hands.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:45 PM
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So if you got a big envelope full of cash, it would be "skrilla in manila"?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:49 PM
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13: If it happens in the Philippines, it's the canonical "Manila manila skrilla".


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:51 PM
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One surfski and one general purpose, messing-about-in-boats type kayak are all you really need, but the damn things multiply if you don't watch them closely.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:51 PM
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Would your wine-making cob-logger know of any good boxed red wines that go for about $5 a liter? I can click the link and ask him myself if that is part of the solution to people paying too much for wine


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:52 PM
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To the OP: I have mostly worked for very small businesses and it's worth reminding people that everybody tends to underestimate overhead. I believe that your co-blogger has been making wine long enough to have a realistic sense but it's still good general advice to remember that one reason to charge more than you think you should is so that the business has money in the bank when your computers die, or you want to hire a new employee and hiring and training takes longer and costs more than you think, or you have one year when the price of grapes doubles because of drought, etc . . .

That said, I've always worked for small businesses that tend, in my opinion, to under-price their services and, honestly, if the business is financially sound I think that can correlate with being a good place to work -- it's nice to work for a place that doesn't prioritize money above everything else.

On that note, also, your co-blogger might be interested in this book. It may not be directly applicable, but it's well done.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 8:58 PM
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Would your wine-making cob-logger know of any good boxed red wines that go for about $5 a liter?

Presumably he could put the wine he makes in boxes and sell it for that much.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:03 PM
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I am completely puzzled-- how well does quality assessment work for wineries? That is, how do buyers get information about what's OK without doing detailed research?

I thought that a common tactic was selling someone else's wine under a tweaked label after achieving some name recognition.

Who writes about VA wines? The last couple I've had have been OK, if not really price-competitive with the southern hemisphere. I'd try reds if I knew how to stay away from sweet ones.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:03 PM
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On that note, also, your co-blogger might be interested in this book. It may not be directly applicable, but it's well done.

Looks interesting, although as with most business books I wonder if there's more to it than can be gleaned from reading the title.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:03 PM
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How to Win Friends and Influence People is interesting reading. So is The Mythical Man-Month.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:10 PM
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I am definitely a believer in "live beneath your means" but I think your cob-logger is being a wee bit nuts nonetheless. If it were part of marketing strategy that he'd be able to sell more at a cheaper price, go for it. If it's possibly part of a mission statement about providing quality wine to those who otherwise go without, then sure, maybe.

But just because he stands to make more income than he feels comfortable making? Donate it to charity! Become greener and more sustainable than ever possible! Do great things with the flow! Support candidates that I like! This just feels like weird liberal guilt.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:10 PM
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14: And if the money in the envelope is to buy that ape in the window, it's Magilla Gorilla manila skrilla.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:11 PM
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Become greener and more sustainable than ever possible!

Buy some solar panels! They're hella expensive.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:15 PM
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and it's worth reminding people that everybody tends to underestimate overhead

I used to have an office near an old railroad bridge that was 11' 8" high. About twice a month, some truck driver would be wrong about his overhead.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:17 PM
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I've alerted cob-logger Ryan that I cross-posted this here. But he's pretty non-responsive to, um, the internet. The last time I talked to him, it was running into him randomly at a coffeeshop.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:17 PM
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26: So he presumably won't mind if we criticize him in this thread.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:19 PM
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Vaguely on-topic since IIRC Stanley's cob-logger lived in New Zealand for a while, I just received a request from someone who works for an ad agency there to use two of the pictures I posted to Flickr in a campaign for Air New Zealand. I said yes, of course.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:21 PM
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How much are they paying you?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:24 PM
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Nothing.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:25 PM
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In fact, under the Creative Commons license I use they didn't even have to ask me. The person seems to be new to this whole Flickr thing, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:26 PM
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Would your wine-making cob-logger know of any good boxed red wines that go for about $5 a liter?

Big House Red & White are the best deals I've found in ages. They're actually drinkable, if not what they were before Randall Grahm sold the brand, and cheap enough to cook with. They're also more like $7 a liter regular price, but theyr'e frequently on post-off for more like $16 for a 3-liter box.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:27 PM
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on post-off

What does this mean?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:28 PM
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hand-off:stiffarm::post-off:________?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:30 PM
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34: stiffblog


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:31 PM
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32: I like the red, but it is close to $9 for 750ml in the stores here and the boxes aren't on the shelf. Stupid PLCB.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:32 PM
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Temporary price reduction. On sale, basically; I don't know the origins of the term.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:32 PM
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34: apo is banned!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:32 PM
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So lame. Even most of the CC licenses prohibit unpaid commercial exploitation. Does flickr make you automatically allow unlimited commercial exploitation of your photos as a term and condition of signing up? Cause that would be weird.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:33 PM
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Robert Halford seems to be implying that you should have done some sort of negotiation or something, Feoflio.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:34 PM
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Feoflio

He's actually quite handsome.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:36 PM
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28: Pictures of Newark?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:38 PM
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Even most of the CC licenses prohibit unpaid commercial exploitation. Does flickr make you automatically allow unlimited commercial exploitation of your photos as a term and condition of signing up?

No.

Way to put photographers out of work, teo.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:43 PM
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On the OP, I think your cob-logger is right to reject overpricing, but I can see how winemakers get lured into it so easily, given an overpaying market and cash-flow uncertainty due to vintage variability. We've talked about going commercial at some point; paperwork is the big obstacle, but pricing is also a conundrum. We should have some econ students come over to puzzle out the valuation as an exercise, and make them do some real work while they're around.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:47 PM
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If you go commercial, can you employ me? Thanks.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 9:54 PM
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So I hate to be the one talking up Econ 101, but if there's anywhere bog-standard economic principles are close to being useful, it's consumer goods. If this wine is priced high but it's flying out the door, arguably it's not overpriced - ain't nobody getting burned on this deal. Enjoy it while it lasts (before some soulless megacorporation undercuts and muscles you out).


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:01 PM
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A slight restatement:

I don't care how much we're in the black.

Is your cob-blogger in a small business? Then he totally should. It's not a matter of canoe vs. 200-foot yacht; it's seven fat years / seven lean years.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:06 PM
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ain't nobody getting burned on this deal.

Oh really? OH REALLY? Then how come you sold your eyes?!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:12 PM
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45: We can employ you even now. We just can't pay you.

Nine wines this year. Tiring, but on the plus side, we have Grenache, Mourvedre and Viognier for the first time. Dee-lish.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:12 PM
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50

Eh, it's not the same if money isn't changing hands.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:14 PM
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51

Philistine. You're fired, preëmptively.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:17 PM
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52

None. None more boat.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:19 PM
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You wouldn't even be using a diæresis if not for me.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:19 PM
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54

Shoulda joined the union, ben.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:19 PM
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Consider the diæresis your bonus.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:20 PM
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56

This is fantastic.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:21 PM
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Does flickr make you automatically allow unlimited commercial exploitation of your photos as a term and condition of signing up?

The default setting is All Rights Reserved. You can change it to various types of CC if you want, including non-commercial use only. I use the least restrictive CC setting, because I'm happy to serve as a useful idiot for the stooges of Capital.

Pictures of Newark?

Carson City, of all places.

Way to put photographers out of work, teo.

That ship has long since sailed, I believe.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:23 PM
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Is the free flickr account worth it? I know that phrasing sounds strange, but the pro account seems kind of pricey but the free account may have more restrictions than I want. I don't take pictures that often, but I did take a bunch this summer (for the first time in about 20 years).


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 10:53 PM
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23: Great show. Have you seen the episode where the money that was used to buy the ape was then paid to the the ape as a reward for having killed a dangerous seamonster? The money ended up as Magilla Gorilla scylla killer manila skrilla.


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 11:07 PM
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The free account restricts the number of pictures you can have pretty severely. I already had way more when they first started charging, and I couldn't access most of my pictures until I bought a paid account.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-15-10 11:08 PM
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Vaguely on-topic since IIRC Stanley's cob-logger lived in New Zealand for a while, I just received a request from someone who works for an ad agency there to use two of the pictures I posted to Flickr in a campaign for Air New Zealand. I said yes, of course.

Ooh? Pictures of what, if you don't mind my asking?

(You would not believe how hard it was to stifle the `fuck giving stuff to those soulless corporate bastards' reaction. Did you know they stopped giving out lollies on domestic flights, and have gone to these shit dried fruit thingies? They're fuckers.)


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:35 AM
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Er, me, if you couldn't guess.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:35 AM
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Do the people to whom your wine would be accessible if its price was lowered want your wine?

More importantly, would the people who currently buy the wine at the high price still want it at a lower price? The modal wine buyer imputes higher quality to higher priced wines. There's plenty of evidence that people's subjective experience of the quality of wine is strongly influenced by how much they think it costs. I suspect that the sort of wine buyer who goes out of the way to buy wine from an unusual origin like this one is especially likely to treat wine as a luxury good: the more expensive, the better. Making the wine "more accessible" would position the product in a different market segment, one in which it is competing for buyer attention with other mediocre wines. Bad idea all around.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 1:00 AM
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||

Recently I mentioned there was an animal in my ceiling. Now it's in the walls. Sounds like it's hurling itself repeatedly into the inside of my bathroom wall. I've just called maintenance about it for the second time; they ignored my message last week.

|>


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 4:45 AM
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63: So the guy doesn't want to cater to the snobs and phonies.

Plus, the liberal guilt, it is all on the side of the comments here.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 4:59 AM
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Essear's mommy always said there were no monsters. No real monsters. But there are. Why do they tell little essears that, Ripley?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 5:02 AM
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63 is correct, if you charge less people will think your wine is no good.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 5:06 AM
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65

So the guy doesn't want to cater to the snobs and phonies

So why is he making wine?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 5:08 AM
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So why is he making wine?

Treating this seriously for 15 seconds:

1) It's a good job.
2) Plenty of people enjoy drinking wine who aren't snobs and phonies, but just find hard liquor stronger than they like. Also, fermented fruit juice is quite tasty.

3 on a trolling scale of 1 - 10. Sorry.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 5:16 AM
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So the guy doesn't want to cater to the snobs and phonies /em>

So why is he making wine?

so disagree with chris y. 8.5 easy. not trolling anyway, somethings more along the lines of a witticism.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 5:28 AM
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also, I think you need a ton of boats, for some value of need, stipulating that you might need a boat. a giant sailboat, an awesome vintage chriscraft, sea kayaks for you and your guests. although they are proverbial money sinks, which is why you're advised to rent.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 5:35 AM
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I HATEHATEHATE them.

Maryland physician Andy Harris (R) just soundly defeated Frank Kratovil . . . and he did it in large part by railing against 'Obamacare' and pledging to repeal Health Care Reform. But when he showed on Capitol Hill today for an orientation for incoming members of Congress and their staffs, he had a different question: Where's my government health care?
Harris . . . demanded to know why he had to wait a month after he was sworn in in January for his government-subsidized health care to kick in. After responding in a huff, he even asked if there was some way he could buy into the government care in advance, seemingly thinking there might be a government program similar to the so-called 'public option' championed by progressive Democrats in 2009.
Harris stood up at the meeting "and asked the two ladies who were answering questions why it had to take so long, what he would do without 28 days of health care."
During the campaign, Harris told voters, "the answer to the ever-rising cost of insurance is not the expansion of government-run or government-mandated insurance but, instead, common-sense market based solutions that ensure decisions are made by patients and their doctors."

I hope he's diagnosed with Stage IV pancreatic cancer on Day 27 and turned down because of his pre-existing condition. HATE.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 5:47 AM
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Link of perfidious hypocrisy.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 5:51 AM
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74

I sort of can't believe I'm saying this but why lower the price? He's not making heart valves. He's making a luxury good some significant part of his audience, I imagine, will value more if it costs more. Probably I am just being an asshole about this because I don't care a whole lot about wine/want to stick it to people who can afford fancy things.

And then as Heebie says, he can donate to charity, maybe find one that buys yachts for poor children.

pwned on preview by KR. Ah well.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:06 AM
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Can't your friend make his goal sound understandable to capitalists by saying he wants to increase market share?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:10 AM
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I wouldn't mind a boat. How many proofs-of-wine-purchase must I turn in?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:11 AM
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which is why you're advised to rent.

Or to sell your wine for higher prices.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:12 AM
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75

Can't your friend make his goal sound understandable to capitalists by saying he wants to increase market share?

Since he claims there is already more demand than he can satisfy, no.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:13 AM
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Stanley's coblogger will never get a raise.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:13 AM
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It's not prima facie unreasonable to sell at a rate below what one could, as long as there's some kind of branding. If I know that StanCoblogCo wines are cheaper than Competico wines, I'll be more likely to buy them even when they're not that cheap. Also, when possible, I try to do business with people that are not trying to fuck me every way they can.

Approach #2: Bottle the same (or very similar) wine in two differently priced cohorts, and let the invisible hand sort them out.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:29 AM
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78: Oh, yeah, right.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:30 AM
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Dear Unfogged,

Is there are a type of tree called a "cob", and he's a logger who cuts down cobs, or is there a type of journal called a "cob log", and he's someone who takes notes in a cob log?

Sincerely,

Confused Commenter


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:31 AM
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74: I disagree. I think a good-tasting cheap wine is a public good, probably about a thousand rat orgasms a bottle.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:33 AM
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Dear confused commenter,

A cob logger manufactures artificial timbers from corn kernels is like a cow orker, but unpaid.

Sincerely,

The Agony Aunts


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:35 AM
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83: I disagree. I wouldn't be surprised at all if a signficant amount of the pleasure got from expensive wine is derived from the knowledge that you are in fact drinking expensive wine. It's probably a Veblen good.

If I know that StanCoblogCo wines are generally cheaper, I will assume that they are lower quality and won't buy them.

This is why French vineyards are still in business when, for every point along the quality spectrum apart from the very top, there is always a New World wine that is £2-3 cheaper than the French wine of the same quality.

(This was relayed to me by a guy with a degree in wine as "the only really worthwhile thing to know about wine").


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:46 AM
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Those pointing at the market segmentation solution are on the right track. If that is too squicky for your coblogger, consider advising him to give a bottle free with every Nth bottle/customer, effusively praising them as "one of our favorite customers, and I'll probably get in trouble with my business partner, but I just can't resist, and have a Happy Thanksgiving [blah blah blah]." Adjust N for whatever desired price reduction.


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:52 AM
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This is why French vineyards are still in business when, for every point along the quality spectrum apart from the very top, there is always a New World wine that is £2-3 cheaper than the French wine of the same quality.

I don't think this is true at all, but Blandings and Jesus would know better than I. Certainly something like a $9 French Muscadet (or a $12 one) has no lower-priced and superior-tasting peer from the New World. This is frequently the case in the $20 and under bracket. (To be fair, the French wines I'm thinking about aren't going to be available at any corner store.) And certainly CA (er, California, not my beloved) spent the better part of the past decade getting wacky pricing airs and expecting (and getting from the sillyheads) ridiculous sums for wines that had nothing on their French counterparts.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:54 AM
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I commented last week about local beer culture. The local wine situation is quite different: a lot of people have brought wine to my house over the past year, but none has ever brought one of the locals. They're pretty good. But pricey: 15-20 a bottle. We were just talking about this last night: wouldn't it be nice if Ten Spoon, for example, could put out something at 8 bucks.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:57 AM
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the French wine of the same quality

The rub being, of course, that there's nothing but subjective preferences driving the determination of what's the "same quality", and that a wine's pricing influences those subjective preferences, at least for most people.


Posted by: urpple | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:00 AM
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Stanley,

Is it public knowledge where he works?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:01 AM
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87: California is not also your beloved?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:03 AM
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72: What. An. Asshole.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:06 AM
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It's probably a Veblen good.

Here's a discussion of a study on wine and pricing.

probably about a thousand rat orgasms a bottle.

Until the health department finds out.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:06 AM
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What are the other industries that work on a similar price structuring as the wine industry? Consider that (other than a few instances) it does not cost more to produce a $20 bottle relative to a $15 bottle. It does not cost more to produce a $50 bottle relative to a $20 bottle. The price structuring is based almost entirely on reputation of the winery, the region, and perceived quality in the eyes (or nose and mouth) of wine critics and wine distributors or wholesalers.

This is not to say that there are not some variations in production costs, labor costs, barrel costs, et cetera - but they are not the primary justification for which price point the wine is aimed at.


Posted by: Stanley's Cob-logger | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:07 AM
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89: true of course. I should have said "that you will like just as much".
87: New World in wine terms = Australia, South Africa etc as well as the Americas.

And don't forget that this is exactly what you should expect to see from an economic point of view. French vineyards are dogged in their defence of the appelation controlee system - they wouldn't be so keen to prevent other manufacturers calling their wines (for example) Champagne or Bordeaux if there wasn't a real material advantage to calling your wine Champagne or Bordeaux. So you'd expect, given two identical wines, that the one labelled as French Cotes du Rhone would sell for a bit more than the Australian Poison Billabong Red.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:08 AM
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94 -- Um, pricing in the law business isn't all that closely related to costs of goods sold.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:09 AM
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94: College education.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:11 AM
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It does not cost more to produce a $50 bottle relative to a $20 bottle.

I thought the cost of the grapes (or the land to grow the grapes) accounted for at least some of the price differential.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:12 AM
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It occurs to me that the point I raise in 98 is probably not applicable when speaking of wine from Virginia.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:13 AM
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100

What are the other industries that work on a similar price structuring as the wine industry? Consider that (other than a few instances) it does not cost more to produce a $20 bottle relative to a $15 bottle

The reverse, interestingly, is true of the film industry. It costs me exactly the same to go and see a film that cost $100 million to make as it would to go and see a film that cost $6,000 to make.

I think you could argue that it does in fact cost more to make a $50 bottle of wine - that the time of the vineyard owner and, especially, the use of his land are worth more, simply because they can be used to produce high-quality wine.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:16 AM
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Is it public knowledge where he works?

Not so much. He has, however, moved on from the place where he used to be, to put it vaguely.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:16 AM
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Pwned by 98.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:17 AM
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The price structuring is based almost entirely on reputation of the winery, the region, and perceived quality in the eyes (or nose and mouth) of wine critics and wine distributors or wholesalers.

pwned by 96, but this is identical to law.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:21 AM
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Law clients whine more about prices.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:28 AM
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104: whine, sure, but they think higher prices mean better quality, and often won't go somewhere else that charges less.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:30 AM
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This was relayed to me by a guy with a degree in wine as "the only really worthwhile thing to know about wine"

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure the most important thing to know about wine is that if you drink a lot of it you'll get drunk.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:32 AM
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It's called being economically rational, guys. You get what you pay for. If something costs an amount, that means there's a market that set the price there. We humans are powerless to resist.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:32 AM
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What are the other industries that work on a similar price structuring as the wine industry?

Much of the world of fashion, right?

Most clothing, perfume, makeup, etc.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:34 AM
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82: Walt is not aware of all Internet traditions.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:35 AM
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If something costs an amount, that means there's a market that set the price there

That isn't actually true. Certainly not in the art world. Many artists choose a price, stick with it, and never sell a single work.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:36 AM
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What are the other industries that work on a similar price structuring as the wine industry? Consider that (other than a few instances) it does not cost more to produce a $20 bottle relative to a $15 bottle

Restaurant serving works like this. It's basically the same effort to wait on a table at a diner as at a midrange restaurant. High-end places have a few more bells and whistles, but it's basically the same skill set. But you're tipped on the price of the food you served.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:38 AM
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105 -- Right. Wine customers brag, though, about prices.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:40 AM
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I should have said "that you will like just as much".

This is even less true than your initial claim. I could consider (but would reject) a conclusion along the lines of "these similarly-priced wines are of generally equal quality, but the New World one is not to my taste". The problem is that is nearly impossible to buy a wine with any sort of individual character from California or Australia for less than $15. The wines at that level will be clean and technically well-made but devoid of interest. Compare to a $10 Jo Landron Muscadet or Les Heretiques Vin de Pays l'Herault. As you go up the price level, it does come down much more to individual taste, but I think the wines that are significantly underpriced for their quality (German Riesling), are generally from the Old World, though not, obviously, Bordeaux/Burgundy/Champagne. Also, "Champagne" and "Chablis" are valuable trade names, but "Chinon" and "Cote de Brouilly" are not. They just represent a particular approach to wine making.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:52 AM
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Clients brag about their lawyer's hourly rate. And they assume that the hourly rate means something related to competence.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:57 AM
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113: But if you put the Old World Label on the New World Wine, it will magically acquire individual character. Isn't that what the scientific studies showed?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:58 AM
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significantly underpriced for their quality

Spain.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:58 AM
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Spain

That's where that Four Loko stuff comes from, right? I wouldn't call it underpriced.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:01 AM
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Much of the world of fashion, right?
Most clothing, perfume, makeup, etc.

Well, I dunno. Good quality clothing is hand-made, cut to fit, made with better-quality materials... presumably that counts for something.

113 pwned by 68, I think.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:02 AM
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116 gets it exactly right. Which is why the later bits of this discussion seems a bit pointless to me, when the answer stares you in the face. On the other hand I have never bragged about the price of wine in my life, even though on a few occasions I've splashed out a bit.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:03 AM
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Good quality clothing is hand-made, cut to fit, made with better-quality materials... presumably that counts for something.

Very very little.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:05 AM
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114 -- I doubt anyone has ever bragged about what they paid me. Should I be charging more, then?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:10 AM
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121. If you want somebody to brag about how much they pay their lawyer you should probably charge less. However, I don't recommend this as a business model.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:15 AM
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True story: my hourly billing rate is currently 40% of what it was one year ago, and the primary result has been that clients think I'm much less competent than I was a year ago.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:20 AM
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And, they're more complainy about bills.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:24 AM
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123: Do you casually drop war stories about your Boston Big[ger]Law practice to your clients to make it clear that you could be charging 250% of what you're charging them, you're just working where you are because you love the region? Might bump up their estimate of your competence.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:25 AM
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123, 124: I've noticed you're commenting more ...


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:31 AM
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Should we have a special Four Loko pre-prohibition commenting night, right before it gets banned? That could be interesting.

100.2 on the film business isn't wrong, exactly, but it's also very much not right in important ways for understanding how money gets made.

I agree totally with Blandings and Oudemia in re wine (and why wouldn't I, they know a lot more than I do) although tbh most of my standard consumption are well made, boring Australian reds.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:34 AM
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125: of course, and you'd think, but it doesn't much seem to.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:34 AM
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And, they're more complainy about bills.

I mean, they're 1-8 ferchrissakes!


Posted by: Buffalo Fan | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:36 AM
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I don't know about Mosels being that underpriced anymore. Certainly once you get above the Kabinett level things get quite pricey. But relative to the production costs? Hand harvesting on insanely steep slopes with low yield vines is not cheap. Nor do small producers producing single vineyard wines from vineyards they share with a dozen other producers in some uneven pattern of little plots have economies of scale. And as you go up the classification ladder beyond Kabinett and Spaetlese it gets even worse since the grape bunches need to be hand selected in multiple passes and they're often allowed to shrivel, resulting in far less juice per grape.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:37 AM
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Law firm pricing is just a proxy for reputation, which is what people are buying when they hire lawyers. Bu I think many clients are getting more sophisticate about disentangling the two.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:38 AM
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I mean, they're not hiring me, because I can't spell. But they're getting more sophisticate about hiring other lawyers.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:39 AM
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[Transplanted from the wrong thread]

Back to the wine -- it's interesting that Stanley's coblogger talks about wanting his product to be more accessible. Because if it's all selling at its current price, it's as accessible as it's going to get; he can't make it more accessible without making more of it. Which puts me on the same 'keep the price up' bench as everyone else.

Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:29 AM
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180: wrong thread, but I had a similar thought, although in fairness to him, with a lower price it might be accessible to a different market. (A concert might sell out at $300/ticket as easily as it sells out at $30/ticket, but the concertgoers may end up being different people.)

Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:37 AM


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:40 AM
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Jesus H. Christ.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:40 AM
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Huh. I wonder if he has any particular vision of who he wants drinking the wine who can't afford it at the current price. Maybe he could talk his partner into, say, selling a quarter of production to locals cheaply, and let the rest of it go to anyone who wants it at whatever the market will bear.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:42 AM
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134: Now there's a dude who could make wine on the cheap.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:42 AM
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significantly underpriced for their quality

Two-Buck Chuck.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:42 AM
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I think a good-tasting cheap wine is a public good, probably about a thousand rat orgasms a bottle.

What this country really needs is a good five-cent Sancerre.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:48 AM
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Maybe he could talk his partner into, say, selling a quarter of production to locals cheaply, and let the rest of it go to anyone who wants it at whatever the market will bear.

Ooh! Arbitrage!


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:49 AM
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Buy other local but OK wines from struggling wineries and sell it cheaper than your own but at a profit with a differently-colored label. When there's enough extra money, buy more land.

Chilean wines from especially Maipo and often Aconcagua valleys are great value. Argentina is variable-- everything's apparently from Mendoza. Which Spanish regions/varieties have people had good luck with?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:50 AM
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136: Has anybody done a comedy bit about the wine connoisseur at Cana? He spits out the wine and says, "Well, Jesus, the water at least was drinkable!"


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:51 AM
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Well, I can tell you that if clients get an attorney for free, they make plenty of irrational-seeming judgments about the quality of service they're receiving. In fairness, part of their dissatisfaction is in the quite real difficulty of getting in touch with their attorneys (who have a lot of clients) but then a lot of them seek private counsel and I tend to assume they're engaging in a kind of magical thinking where the cheapest available non-public defense attorney is going to make all kinds of things happen that a public defender couldn't.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:58 AM
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What this country really needs is a good five-cent Sancerre

I'd take the inflation adjusted French wine prices from the early seventies. If I could get a good Chablis or decent Bordeaux for ten bucks a bottle I'd be very happy. Though maybe not in good enough spirits to give handjobs to the subway rodents.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:01 AM
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significantly underpriced for their quality

Spain.

Seriously. If they default on their debt you could pick up a country with nice beaches, beautiful people, and a rich musical tradition for very cheap.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:02 AM
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Which Spanish regions

Priorat, Navarra, Calatayud, Montsant, Yecla, Jumilla, Ribera del Duero.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:05 AM
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I tend to assume they're engaging in a kind of magical thinking where the cheapest available non-public defense attorney is going to make all kinds of things happen that a public defender couldn't.

I'm not experienced in criminal law, but from civil experience against the low end of the paid profession, I'd bet the crossover point where paid gets you better service than a public defender is a distinct notch above the cheapest available.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:05 AM
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||

A colleague just told me that back in 2000, she was teaching in one of the buildings on campus when they were putting in new carpet, and the fumes would make her sick and she'd have to go lie down during class.

Eventually she went to the doctor, who said that she'd been exposed to something in her environment that was causing her kidneys to fail.

I knew she was super sick for a couple years in the early 2000s, but I didn't know the full story. Apparently now she has 1/3 kidney function left.

Anyway, they're planning on tearing down our building because of the mold and moving us to this other building. Granted, the carpet thing was ten years ago. But the whole thing gives me the willies. This is why you need government regulation of toxic chemicals!!

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:08 AM
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||

Also, I've now spent two pregnancies in a building which is apparently condemnable for its mold. Good times.

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:11 AM
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Are you sure it's not MOLE?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:11 AM
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But the whole thing gives me the like, thirty goddamn willies.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:12 AM
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THEY COCKED OVER IT BUT IT CAME BACK!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:13 AM
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Anyway, they're planning on tearing down our building because of the mold and moving us to this other building.

Go home. Go home now and do not go back till the move is complete. Especially don't go anywhere near the old building once they start clearing it for demolition. This is also why university staff need a union.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:14 AM
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146: That's my guess, too. And my assumption is that if they got one of our attorneys, they don't have a secret stash with which to hire Al/an Dersh/owitz.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:15 AM
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152: Seriously? I mean, yes, mold can bother people, and can cause reactions in some people, but is there really any good reason to think that if being in the building isn't bothering her now, that it's doing her any cryptic harm?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:18 AM
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Go home. Go home now and do not go back till the move is complete.

I'm having trouble finding info online that's not sponsored by fumigation companies. I don't have allergies - is it more complicated than just allergies?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:19 AM
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While we're at the intersection of Legal Services and Gourmet, this has got to be the most SWPL lawsuit ever.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:19 AM
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155: Eh, as long as you don't have a compromised immune system or chronic lung condition, I doubt there's much to worry about.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:22 AM
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I figure the veldt was super moldy.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:23 AM
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"I saw that happen just this week," said Canavan, 40. "The thing actually explodes and the whole snail jumped out of the dish onto a lady. It's embarrassing, but I don't know how to prevent that." As of Friday afternoon, there was no litigation pending in connection with that incident.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:24 AM
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Aspergillus fumigatus and some kind of Stachybotris are common molds that cause problems for people with sensitivities.

I don't have medline cites, but you could start with review articles for those terms, maybe airborne or environmental to narrow.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:32 AM
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The plaintiffs concede they did not seek immediate medical treatment and continued on with their meal, a filet-and-lobster combo for St.-OHarra

Anybody ever, once, manage to eat an unshelled lobster without jets of fluid?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:33 AM
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What's with the fear-mongering about the mold? Heebie could be sitting on a mycoprotein goldmine!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:35 AM
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161: Technology to the rescue!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:35 AM
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Actually, I rather like Unfogged.


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:36 AM
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Heebie could be sitting on a mycoprotein goldmine!

Heebie has a Quornbutt?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:36 AM
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I leak Quorn syrup.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:38 AM
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Actually, I rather like Unfogged.


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:41 AM
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From way upthread.

Looks interesting, although as with most business books I wonder if there's more to it than can be gleaned from reading the title.

I can tell you that my brother (who owns a small business and is interested in sustainability) said that it was the only business book that he genuinely liked, and he bought another copy to lend out.

He said the even other "green" business books seemed to him to be trapped in relatively narrow mindset and that Living Above The Store actually managed to have a broader perspective.

I've only read a couple of bits from it, but they were good and I'm looking forward to when the lender copy makes it to me.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:45 AM
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156: resulting in a spray of hot garlic butter on their faces and polo shirts

NSFW!


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:46 AM
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If I could get a good Chablis or decent Bordeaux for ten bucks a bottle I'd be very happy. Though maybe not in good enough spirits to give handjobs to the subway rodents.

What about the quiznos rodents?


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:52 AM
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169: I too am offended by the phrase "polo shirt".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:52 AM
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I love the quiznos rodents more than I should. THEY HAVE A PEPPER BAR!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:53 AM
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"I saw that happen just this week," said Canavan, 40. "The thing actually explodes and the whole snail jumped out of the dish onto a lady. It's embarrassing, but I don't know how to prevent that." As of Friday afternoon, there was no litigation pending in connection with that incident."

Wasn't there a Seinfeld with a related final act?


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:55 AM
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Heh. Dickie Arbiter. That is all.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:59 AM
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the most SWPL lawsuit ever

Yes, it certainly doesn't get any more SWPL than an auto parts dealer eating surf and turf at a restaurant called the Seafood Peddler.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:06 AM
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Wine pricing has some basis in the reality of costs, it's just that a lot of other factors come into play. All other things being equal, wine made from a vineyard producing five tons/acre is obviously cheaper to make per bottle than wine made from an equivalent vineyard where the crop is cut to two tons/acre. The latter will be better wine. Wine made in a fabulously outfitted winery (assuming all the overhead is factored into the price) is more expensive than wine made in a basic warehouse-type building, but isn't necessarily any better.

there's nothing but subjective preferences driving the determination of what's the "same quality"

Does anyone believe that judging wine quality is entirely subjective?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:08 AM
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If it had been the Seafood Pedaller, a bike-themed seafood eatery, it would have been much much more SWPL.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:10 AM
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175: In Marin County.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:11 AM
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Does anyone believe that judging wine quality is entirely subjective?

Wasn't there some study showing that no one could reliably distinguish red wine from white wine? This seems weird to me, given that even though I don't have a particularly sensitive palate there are certainly wines I like and wines I won't drink (well, won't drink unless there's nothing else on offer. I'm not all that fussy.), but you can't argue with SCIENCE.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:12 AM
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Wasn't there some study showing that no one could reliably distinguish red wine from white wine

If so, I seriously doubt its validity. They taste pretty damn different.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:13 AM
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If it had been the Sifu'd Pedaller, it would be a robot bike that drives itself.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:14 AM
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the Seafood Pedaller

The menu is prix fixie.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:15 AM
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Wasn't there some study showing that no one could reliably distinguish red wine from white wine?

Presumably pretested to see if they could distinguish between whiskey and tequila. Then after they'd had enough they ran the study.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:17 AM
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179: Anyhow, you're thinking of this.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:19 AM
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179: Calvin Trillin talks about it in the food issue of the NYer (which means August or September) circa 2002. Same issue as the weird stone fruit expertise as replacement for heroin habit guy article. But yeah, lots of people fail the red wine/white wine test (wines are served at same temp in opaque cups).


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:19 AM
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Wasn't there some study showing that no one could reliably distinguish red wine from white wine?

I remember that and my recollection is that it was done under conditions that were pretty different from normal drinking, but not so different that the results weren't surprising.

I'm pretty sure that both wines were chilled, and they might have used glasses that minimized the aroma (maybe not, I don't remember that detail, but it would make sense).


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:19 AM
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I know it is a horribly SWPL complaint, but it bugs the hell out of me that the entire domestic wine industry is controlled by one man's palette


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:20 AM
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180: Googling confirms that it's a myth, or at least that Calvin Trillin believes it's a myth. But it's a real myth, not something I made up.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:20 AM
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Still, the Calvin Trillin thing found "experienced drinkers" getting about a 70% average (n=3), suggesting ability is hit-or-miss with a lot of people.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:23 AM
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I am more amazed that I called August 2002 NYer.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:23 AM
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Same issue as the weird stone fruit expertise as replacement for heroin habit guy article.

That guy shared a name with a good friend of mine from high school that I've lost touch with, and there were enough points of similarity that I was a couple of pages into the article before I was sure it wasn't my guy.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:25 AM
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I am more amazed that I called August 2002 NYer.

!


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:25 AM
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I count seven boats in the crawl space under my house. I think only five have been paddled this year, since I tore my rotator cuff.


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:26 AM
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||
This is really beautiful, but gah, I hate the very idea of that guy. (And apparently there's a word for that--Schadenfoer. Cute.)
|>


Posted by: x. trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:27 AM
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191: If one must hit bottom, hitting bottom shacked up at the Plaza Athénée with a model seems the best way to do it.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:28 AM
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I think it would be pretty easy to design competing studies to prove that reds and whites are indistinguishable, and that they aren't.

The owner of the restaurant where I worked (which had a huge Old World wine list) went to a blind tasting that included a Ch. Margaux among a bunch of West Coast Bordeaux-type blends. Most of the tasters panned it, and then hurriedly revised their scores when the labels were unveiled.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:31 AM
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I'm reminded of the Mythbusters episode (which has undoubtedly come up here before) where they filtered vodka through Britta pitchers to see who could tell the swill from the spendy stuff. IIRC, only the actual vodka expert dude got it right.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:35 AM
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196 Sure, serve them at 35 F.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:36 AM
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Most of the tasters panned it, and then hurriedly revised their scores when the labels were unveiled.

Cowards.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:37 AM
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This paper indicates that Trillin's anecdotal 70% is about right. Both experts and novices correctly identified 80% of reds, 65% of whites, and 45% of roses. Not surprisingly, most roses were mischaracterized as whites. Also, experts were able to do this entirely by aroma,


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:38 AM
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The first major title by new London-based publisher Visual Editions, Tree of Codes was created by slicing out chunks of text from Foer's favorite novel, The Street of Crocodiles by Polish author Bruno Schulz. The result is a spare, haunting story that appears to hang in negative space on the page. Pretentious? Possibly. But it is also very, very cool.

Not to mention strikingly original!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:39 AM
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The modal wine buyer imputes higher quality to higher priced wines

Two Buck Chuck is the exception to this rule?


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:40 AM
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201 is too dismissive. I'm sure it's a neat piece of work, it's just not groundbreaking.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:40 AM
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where they filtered vodka through Britta pitchers to see who could tell the swill from the spendy stuff

Well, ok, but should you have to filter your vodka? Shouldn't it be sort of pre-filtered?


Posted by: x. trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:40 AM
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197 I love good vodka, and I can generally (1) distinguish between a Popov type and the good stuff, but not between premium and superpremium. Luksusowa is the way to go.

1. A lot of the expensive vs. quality stuff is an on average thing. Unpasteurized Brie de Meaux is clearly better than your generic supermarket mass produced Brie, but that won't be true of every sample. And like with wine, it will be much harder to distinguish if you serve it cold. The reverse is true with vodka.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:42 AM
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And an analysis of the primary components revealed that the distinguishing factors were blackberry and woody aromas in the reds and apricot/peach, pear, citrus, and pineapple aromas in the whites. Pretty unsurprising.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:42 AM
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hitting bottom shacked up at the Plaza Athénée with a model seems the best way to do it

Would it be okay if I hit the model's bottom instead?


Posted by: OPINIONATED SPANKO | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:42 AM
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Related, is it just my imagination or have cheese prices gone up much faster than inflation over the past decade?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:45 AM
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I'm reminded of the Mythbusters episode (which has undoubtedly come up here before) where they filtered vodka through Britta pitchers to see who could tell the swill from the spendy stuff. IIRC, only the actual vodka expert dude got it right.

I watched that last year.

The expert got them all correct and Jamie Hyneman got almost all of them (I think he missed one). Kari was the only one who had difficulty with the test.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:48 AM
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I am more amazed that I recalled August 2002 NYer.

I got that beat


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:49 AM
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Unrelated: for the German-readers out there, does this sound cool or lame? I'll let The Mineshaft decide. (And yes, half the reason I even clicked on the link was because his name is Assman.)


Posted by: x. trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:50 AM
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196 Sure, serve them at 35 F.

I gathered that they distinguished them well enough, but that most of the tasters weren't familiar with high-end Bordeaux, preferring instead the fruit-forward early-drinking California wines in the tasting. They were all from the same recent vintage, so I can see how the Margaux wasn't showing so well, but people who are in the business of buying wines are supposed to think about how they'll develop over a few years.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:51 AM
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210: Ha! That article is the first thing I thought wrt to the Chron. thing, too, but I never could have guessed the year.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:53 AM
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209: Well, I sure misremembered that, didn't I?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:59 AM
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I'm not sure what advantage there is in willing low price wine consumers away from their current South American or Californian favorites. It makes perfect sense to have a more profitable lower priced wine to help subsidize production of high end stuff, if that's what one is into, but just marking down the good stuff to change the buyer profile seems like a loser.

I don't know if I mentioned before that I ran into a guy this spring who is getting going in the wine business. He gave me a couple of bottles, in hopes that I'd like it and talk it up. The one I tried was good, no question about that, but at $50, well, a wine is going to have to do stuff I haven't yet thought of for that. The other bottle goes for nearly 4 times as much, and I haven't brought myself to open it just yet.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 10:59 AM
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209:

And truly, the whole point seemed to me to be that a nasty gallon of Vodka of the Gods or Teo Tomas's Tequila could be dramatically improved by running it through a common water filter.


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:00 AM
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Two Buck Chuck invariably gives me headaches.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:01 AM
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does this sound cool or lame

Eh. If you're interested in Egyptology - you're certainly in the right country for it - it could be good. Otherwise, eh. I'm sort of bored of the 'big idea' books that come out of the German university system.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:04 AM
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I ran into a guy this spring who is getting going in the wine business

Which part? Grower, vintner, distributor?


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:06 AM
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Related, is it just my imagination or have cheese prices gone up much faster than inflation over the past decade?

I propose an Independent Cheese Payment Advisory Board, empowered to make the hard decisions Congress won't.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:07 AM
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Thanks, Blume. Hrm. I'm leaning towards "go", because I have yet to leave the house today, and I have some reason to think a woman I've got a huge crush on might show up. OTOH, it's very cold out.


Posted by: x. trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:09 AM
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A chance to work on your German as well. Following a lecture in a foreign language is a particular kind of listening skill.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:11 AM
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Two Buck Chuck invariably gives me headaches.

There is a doctoral thesis in marketing waiting to happen here. $2C made a one time buy of some surplus Napa grapes, mixed them with their Lodi crap, and made a reasonable wine that they sold to TJ's. The Napa grapes haven't been used in years, and the wine is now back to the plonk it would have been without the quality infusion. But the wine flies of the shelves by virtue of its previous reputation. I can't stand the stuff, even at the very generous price point.


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:11 AM
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Whoever TLL was quoting gets it right.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:12 AM
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half the reason I even clicked on the link was because his name is Assman

There's a whole town full of them. And they make wine!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:14 AM
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Following a lecture in a foreign language is a particular kind of listening skill.

Just laugh when everyone else laughs.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:16 AM
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229 -- Grower becoming vintner. Napa.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:20 AM
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Or 219.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:20 AM
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I hates me some unclosed tags, Tweety.


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:21 AM
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227. He's halfway home, then. Winemaking is an art, but talent can be hired. Growing good grapes is harder, IMHO.


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:24 AM
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The grapes were there before him, I'm pretty sure, though I don't doubt that he made huge improvements on the cultivation side. Seems a very hard working guy. And the wine is really very good.

He liked my Sonoma story -- mostly because he knows and likes Joel's zins -- and especially the happy ending. Visibly shuddered, though, at the 'no distribution of profit for 25 years' part.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:32 AM
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Actually, I rather like Unfogged.


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:34 AM
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especially the happy ending

!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:41 AM
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Heh. Dickie Arbiter.

The unlicensed, nonbinding equivalent of Dick Advocaat.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:43 AM
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the 'no distribution of profit for 25 years' part

If he pays himself a living wage profits can wait. Most ag deals are heavily financed requiring an annual chinese clean up with the real money being made on the appreciation of the land. YMMV.


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:46 AM
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OT: Carla Gugino is a very attractive woman today, but, on the basis of flipping past 1995's Miami Rhapsody, fifteen years ago she was a firestorm of holy jumping hotness.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:48 AM
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223: Well, I haven't been a consumer for quite some time, but I recall being of the opinion that Charles Shaw Chardonnays have always been drinkable; it's the reds and sweeter whites that really took a nose dive. IIRC, the surplus grape buys were c. 1998-2000. Not a bad time to be buying California wine: I used to pick up '97 Ravenswood zins in a fairly ghetto Pak'n'Save for like 6 or 7 bucks.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:50 AM
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Miami Rhapsody

Vastly underrated, really sharp and sophisticated comedy. I like that movie a lot.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:55 AM
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the 'no distribution of profit for 25 years' part

Presumably, he knows the secret to making a small fortune in the wine industry.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 11:57 AM
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238: Plus, 24-year-old Carla Gugino.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:10 PM
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24-year-old Carla Gugino

Those cheeks, oh baby!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted by: Alvin the Chipmunk | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:16 PM
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This apparently is putting me way out on the DFH end of the unfogged spectrum here, but I can understand discomfort with feeling your wares are way overpriced, because in taking advantage of that you end up feeling contemptuous of your customers. One would wonder how the stuff could sell at those prices if they aren't snobs, idiots, or both. If Stanley's Cob Logger prefers a friendly, honest relationship with them over a boat and a pony, is that so insane? And giant corporations commonly burn all sorts of money on generating goodwill towards their brand, yet when one guy does it, he's a chump?


Posted by: persistently visible | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:25 PM
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This link has just made my day a happy one. Maybe it will improve yours, as well.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:27 PM
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I can understand discomfort with feeling your wares are way overpriced

Perhaps the creator of the product is unaware of the "true value". Be proud of your work, artisan!


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:30 PM
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I laughed at loud at :50 and 1:17. This is the first time I ever managed to listen to that song all the way through. I am impressed at the range of his moves.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:33 PM
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Presumably, he knows the secret to making a small fortune in the wine industry.

NO, WHAT'S THAT, JESUS?


Posted by: OPINIONATED SOCK PUPPET SET-UP MAN | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:34 PM
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Funny you should ask, Opinionated Sock Puppet Set-Up Man. It's "start with a large fortune." Isn't that just hilarious?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:35 PM
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Presumably, he knows the secret to making a small fortune in the wine industry.

NO, WHAT'S THAT, JESUS?

Jesus isn't a secret.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:38 PM
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240,241:Movies!!

Judas Kiss ...1998 Caper comedy, in which Gugino (26) plays as hot as she possibly can with her clothes on (IIRC) Her partner-in-crime is Simon Baker of The Mentalist. Part of the plot is that these two can't keep their mind on The Plan, or hands off each other.

Their nemeses (I looked the plural up) are cops played by Emma Thompson and Alan Rickman. So imagine the following dialogue delivered by Emma and Alan, dryly as a desert:

Sadie Hawkins:- So fill me in.

Dave Friedman:- That remark could be misconstrued as sexual harassment, Agent Hawkins.

Sadie Hawkins:- Let's get it out of the way then: you've never worked under a female superior before. I got to where I am by pushing paper and playing nice - I've never actually fired a gun before, I'm only in this job to prove to my father I'm not a coward. I give decent head, so I got promoted before all the worthy candidates, all of them men, all of them equally gifted at fellatio but there was a gender quota to fill. I'm also stupid and idealistic; you are hard and cynical, and usually right. I am secretly in love with you but I have a hard time showing it. Did I skip anything?

Dave Friedman:- You're a better driver than me, but I'm too proud to admit it.

Plus Til Schweiger! Philip Baker Hall! Roscoe Lee Browne!

It may not be very good, but who cares.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:48 PM
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Yes he is.


Posted by: Opinionated Gnostic | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:48 PM
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250: You better stay pseudonymous, Elaine Pagels. "Thunder, Perfect Mind," my ass.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:50 PM
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I am impressed at the range of his moves.

Yes! It's like "Is the Cockatoo done? No, the Cockatoo is NOT done."


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 12:53 PM
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Cockatoos are the clowniest of the parrots.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 1:02 PM
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And best about Judas Kiss?

No Sarah Jessica Parker.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 1:07 PM
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Perhaps the creator of the product is unaware of the "true value". Be proud of your work, artisan!


Posted by: persistently visible | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 1:09 PM
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Seriously, you guys are the best. That's why I've come here every day without fail for three years. All I want is your approval. Is that so much to ask?


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 1:19 PM
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It's like "Is the Cockatoo done? No, the Cockatoo is NOT done."

I didn't fondle that parrot, but I may have kissed a cockatoo.


Posted by: Sir Elton John | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 1:41 PM
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141 -- Foreclosed by John 2:10: Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: thou hast kept the good wine until now.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:10 PM
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You know who probably knows a lot about wine?

Hobos, that's who!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:18 PM
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I'm with 242. If Cob Logger doesn't want to squeeze every last dime out of customers, then lord love him and the little fishes. There may be good reasons not to drop the price and use the money for a rainy day fund, improving pay and benefits, other things folks have mentioned, but "how much can we get away with charging?" isn't the right place to start in figuring that out.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:18 PM
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258. An ecclesiastical friend of mine makes the case that the Wedding at Cana was between Jesus and Mary Magdalene. He bases this on John 2:1-10. Mary the mother of Jesus alerts the Saviour to the fact that the caterer has run out of wine, as befits the mother of the groom. She even directs the servants, "Whatever He says to you, do it." Pretty ballsy for an invited guest, no? But normal behavior for one of the principals. Plus the fact that the bridegroom is mentioned, but not named.

Wars have been fought over less.


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:24 PM
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258: Comedy is required to be scripturally correct?

Also that was just one opinion. If you have two avowed connoisseurs drinking the same wine aren't they bound to argue about it?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:24 PM
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Comedy is required to be scripturally correct?

If it ain't, it won't be rotten tomatoes thrown your way. More like stones, brother.


Posted by: OPINIONATED MULLAH | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:28 PM
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261: That is just wacky.

There is also the question of whether Jesus changes the water into alcoholic wine, or wholesome non-intoxicating grape juice.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:31 PM
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That is just wacky.

And the whole water into wine thing isn't? The same guy is also fond of reminding his flock that there was a vote on which Gospels to include in the Bible. Just because a Gospel didn't make the cut doesn't mean that it isn't true, or whatever.

Where is Emerson to remind us about the Cathars, anyway?


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:39 PM
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261: That seems kind of fanfiction-y, particularly in the way it looks to the screenwriter's principle of conservation of characters ("You're the murderer?! But you're my neighbor! I waved to you in the first scene!").


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:41 PM
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265: I believe it is a wacky way to interpret the text of the Gospel. If Jesus was getting married, why wasn't there anything there about how he proposed,etc?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:45 PM
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266. What cracks me up about this particular story is the humanization of Mary the mother of Jesus. She is proud of her son. "Jesus, my boy: be a mensch, work a miracle, already."


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:45 PM
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I believe it is a wacky way to interpret the text of the Gospel.

No matter how you interpret the Bible, there's an extremely high level of wacky going on from cover to cover.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:48 PM
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268: That's a good way to look at it. I think one can see in that the fool's gold of the American evangelical hermeneutic: to wit, to make the Gospels "relatable" by making the "characters" "recognizable" and "sympathetic" -- again, the way a screenwriter would, or would be told to. This is the sort of joke that a minister wearing a polo shirt tells on a Jumbotron.*

* Fuck you, David Brooks, and your "the only real Americans wallow in sprawl and pray in repurposed malls."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:52 PM
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If Jesus was getting married, why wasn't there anything there about how he proposed,etc?

I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you.


Posted by: Jacques de Molay | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:52 PM
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OT: Suggestions for good baby presents? Parents-to-be are in a sort of "Huh, I guess we're having a baby next month" not-quite-denial mode. I already got a dinosaur comics onesie, and am looking for something else in a similar vein. Or something for the parents. Something that is really useful in the month right before or right after the kid is born?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:55 PM
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272: I gave my friends an Amazon gift certificate so they could order whatever they learned that they needed.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:57 PM
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Noise-canceling headphones?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 2:59 PM
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272. My wife will sometimes buy clothes for 6mo to a year as a newborn present. Babies grow fast, and something nicer for later might be handy. Everybody gets the kid something for RIGHT NOW.


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:00 PM
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"This article is about the Templar Grand Master. For the Mongol general, see Mulay."

It turns out that there was not a Mongol general named "Jacques de Mulay".


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:00 PM
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275 is a really good suggestion. Unless they're not getting newborn stuff from someone else (and they probably will be) people tend to be oversupplied for the newborn stage and undersupplied thereafter. Plus, newborns actually need fewer things than older babies do.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:02 PM
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It turns out that there was not a Mongol general named "Jacques de Mulay".

That's what the it's-spelled-"Cingis" people want you to think.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:03 PM
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264: What? No. No matter what cons the SBC try to run.

272: Big balance ball. Many infants seem to need to be bounced to sleep, and that is a great helper.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:06 PM
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I actually did get the 6-12 month onesie, because it doesn't seem suitable for cold weather.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:07 PM
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273: Amazon also has a discount program for new parents.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:08 PM
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Perhaps the creator of the product is unaware of the "true value". Be proud of your work, artisan!

How nice to find this transcription online.

I placed the enamelled bucket of home brew on the deck of my cabin. The yellow fluid, barely fermenting now, had the full black bodies of prunes floating in it. . . . Meanwhile, as host, I filled the mugs of the guests and they drank deeply of the prune juice -- no vintage wine ever tasted better -- if one can judge from their eagerness to refill. The first bucket thawed them out, the second started the singing -- songs of all kinds, Scottish, English, Norwegian, Swedish -- old songs, bawdy songs, ditties, all sung unaccompanied -- but with relish. Usually Bucket No. 3 produced philosophical nostaglia.

Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:09 PM
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272: I know we've had some baby gift threads, but the only one I could find doesn't have much advice other than this:

Friends of ours were really shaken after they threw a shower and got a huge pile of hipster onesies and virtually none of the stuff they had registered for.

Obviously they weren't talking about dinosaur onesies, though. Totally agreed that parents often are pretty well set up for the newborn period, though it seems like one can never have enough changing table covers or receiving blankets. Breastfeeding pillows (a.k.a. "boppies") are great, too.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:19 PM
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N.B. They're helpful for bottlefeeding, too, so don't give me any of that privilege crap.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:20 PM
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To tie the thread together, how about a nice bottle of wine at the christening?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:21 PM
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Anti-Semite.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:24 PM
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||

Tv in this hotel room the size of a postage stamp and about 20 metres from the bed. WTF

>


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:26 PM
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about 20 metres from the bed

Staying in a barracks?


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:31 PM
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Ok business class hotel. Huge room. Telly roughly size appropriate for the back of an airplane seat. Comic.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:37 PM
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I may not be aware of all Internet traditions, but I write exquisite haiku on artisanal vellum paper, and I'm wondering if these cob logs I keep hearing about would make a better receptacle for my art.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:40 PM
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Silly, a cob logger harvests corn with a crosscut saw.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:52 PM
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You know who probably knows a lot about wine? Hobos, that's who!

Those discussions can get heated.(possibly NSFW) Pretty sure it was cabernet vs pinot thing but we can't know for sure as the guy doing the bulk of the bleeding ran off before we arrived.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 3:59 PM
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Gift certificates for restaurants with take-out.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 4:10 PM
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290, 291:

These folk etymologies are to be deprecated. Obvs, the real story is cob from the Australian slang for friend or buddy, and logger from the morpheme log in weblog. This Ryan guy must have picked up some antipodean slang from his time in New Zealand and passed it on.


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 4:16 PM
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|| Chicagoans, some foolery from the internet.|>


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 4:17 PM
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Ok business class hotel. Huge room. Telly roughly size appropriate for the back of an airplane seat. Comic.

Try brushing a finger across it. Maybe it's an iPad.


Posted by: persistently visible | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 4:22 PM
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||
Man, Cory Doctorow is really thin-skinned if you suggest that something he blogged about is not that cool.
||>


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:06 PM
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To tie the thread together, how about a nice bottle of wine at the christening?

Perhaps some De Moor Saint-Bris (which is delicious, by the way).

292: If only those guys had known about this site.

Finally, yes on 6-12 month clothes, no on fancy outfits.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:07 PM
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297: shocker.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:09 PM
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297 is worthless without links.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:14 PM
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You can probably figure it out. I have a different handle there precisely because I don't want bb trolls following me over here.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:17 PM
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I think I found it!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:20 PM
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Then probably you did! Let's see who can find it next!

There should be some kind of law, maybe Natilo's Law, that the vitriol of flames directed at a comment is in inverse proportion to the seriousness of the comment. Or something like that.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:24 PM
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279: Mara pointed out while watching her favorite movie (Babies) that those balls can go under a parent's feet while the parent's in a rocker, too. She's been asleep with me in that position for half an hour and my partner hasn't come up to lift her off me and into bed yet, maybe partly in passive-aggressive pique about how unappreciative I was that the first 45 minutes she spent relieving me of childcare duties on account of my pinched nerve were spent tidying the child's room to her OCD standarda while I held said child while sitting on the balance ball.

Anyway, rant over for now. Balance balls are good. I also concur with both 299 and 300, and thus of course 298.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:24 PM
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I found it, but then after confirming that I'd found it, I closed the tab before reading the thread. I don't know why I did that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:31 PM
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That comment by B/ttle Ch//se is hilarious.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:32 PM
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The Million Man Troll Army.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:36 PM
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||

All girls carry "mad money".

|>


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:37 PM
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On preview, this is way off-topic now, but I just spent 10 minutes frowning over it, so.

260: I'm with 242 as well. Excuse the weird google-proofing in what follows.

I had a rather depressing conversation with my cow-orker today along related lines. People in the boo/kselling world routinely throw away (destroy) books; we'd received a call from a fellow boo/kdealer asking if we wanted to have -- for free -- some 60-odd boxes of books he had no use for. This guy runs a non-profit give-books-to-the-public-for-free outfit.

We're not interested in the guy's dross. My cow-orker asked why he didn't put the stuff out for the public to have. Answer: he doesn't want so-called "penny sellers" to come and take them to sell online for a penny. Why? Well, it's against his mission, for one thing; his books are to go the public, and aren't intended for resale.

This is kind of baffling; why is he asking us if we want them, then?

This led, after some additional discussion, to my observing to my cow-orker that we ourselves could give our unwanted books away via Freecycle. But no! This might let people know where we get our books from! And that would never do. It's essential to keep your sources confidential.

At which point I said, "Man, capitalism sucks. We destroy things of value because we can't get money for them, and aren't even willing to pass them along for free because it might disrupt the chain."

Of course my cow-orker replied that Yes, that is the system.

I'm not sure I belong in anything other than the non-profit world. I go through this every time I feel a career change coming on.


Posted by: Sad Purveyor | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:39 PM
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It could be worse; you could be going to Disney.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:44 PM
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309: If you had some flour, water, paint, chicken wire, and some type of board, you could make a volcano with the books.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:46 PM
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You know, "Sad Purveyor" for some reason sounds to me like a good handle for a Wu-Tang affiliate. Sad Purveyor and Inspectah Deck represent!

Train of thought brought to you by the post title.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:47 PM
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The chicken wire is usually what people don't have on them. But, most hardware stores will sell you some.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:47 PM
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Books as building material.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:51 PM
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308: Something new every day.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:53 PM
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Shit. It's still in the wall.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 6:55 PM
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Plumbing problems?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:03 PM
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306: I know, right? He must be the author's brother-in-law or something.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:04 PM
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Metaphorical shit. Some animal capable of scratching. A squirrel?

Though I suppose if it's an animal living in my wall there's probably actual shit there too. A charming thought. Thanks, nosflow.

I guess I'll have to try to hunt down a maintenance person in person since they won't answer the phone or reply to my messages.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:06 PM
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Wait, you're in physics? IT'S MOL!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:07 PM
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I guess I'll have to try to hunt down a maintenance person in person since they won't answer the phone or reply to my messages.

Maybe they're stuck in the wall, too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:07 PM
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I had squirrels in my ceiling once at an old apartment. Took the landlords forever to do something about it. The final time I called them, I had to get really passive-aggressive. It's the only thing Minnesotans understand, sadly.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:10 PM
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Metaphorical shit. Some animal capable of scratching.

Probably not just metaphorical shit, then.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:10 PM
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324

310

I need to know what dick's house is.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:10 PM
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306: Now it is lost to the ages. They have some really arbitrary moderation standards over there.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:11 PM
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I should probably get 320, but I don't.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:11 PM
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319.2 to 323?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:12 PM
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325: h tht's t y'r dd mthrfckr.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:12 PM
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320: +E ?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:12 PM
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327: Wow. I read the first line and the last line and somehow missed the second line altogether. I should go to bed.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:15 PM
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324: Dick's house isn't in North Carolina, it's in you, and him, and her. Inside each of us is where we find Dick's house. You know, depending on your proclivities.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:16 PM
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330: now is exactly when you shouldn't go to bed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:17 PM
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Mol, you know, Mole. Avogadro? I guess that was more of a chemistry joke? And not at all a good one.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:19 PM
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Oh. Chemistry. I slept through that.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:19 PM
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I didn't think mole had anything to do with avocados.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:20 PM
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Uh, duh? Guacamole.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:22 PM
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But apparently it does:
The word guacamole (avocado sauce) is derived from the word mole (guaca from "aguacate" or avocado)


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:22 PM
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Pwnd! But, that still doesn't explain the lawyer connection.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:22 PM
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Back in the days of my old pseudonym, I lived in a house that had multiple animals, possibly all of the same species, in the walls. The landlord claimed squirrels; the guy who came and set traps in the crawlspaces and patched up the hole in the roof (which must have kept the animals out, as the trap was never sprung and the animals didn't come back during the final month I stayed there) thought possums; and I, having seen raccoons outside, having seen raccoons clinging to the wall outside while climbing upwards, having heard raccoons make a high-pitched trilling sound when after I opened the back door they ran under the back porch, and having heard the same sound coming from the walls of my room, figured that at least some of the animals were raccoons. I complained to the landlord a couple of times, but he didn't get someone to deal with the problem until I called him around 6 in the morning while the animals were on the move.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:23 PM
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I was wondering about raccoons. Sometimes it sounds large for a squirrel. In decreasing order of likelihood of getting into my wall, the wild denizens of my neighborhood seem to be squirrels, raccoons, possums, small children, and deer.

The trouble is I don't have a landlord, I have a "management company". The only way to talk to an actual person instead of an automated voicemail system is to go to their office, I think.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:35 PM
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I drove not 10 feet from a deer on my way home. A bit alarming since my entire drive was 2 miles, all of it in a city.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:38 PM
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I drove near a coyote around here once. That surprised me.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:40 PM
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340.1: You have the kind of optimism that lets you ignore rats, which are widely noted for living in walls, when you make a list of what is in your walls. That's probably a plus in life, so I wouldn't worry about the rodents.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:42 PM
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Remember, the rats are just as scared of you as you are of them.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:43 PM
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Do rats like living in ceilings? This one came in through the ceiling, then eventually founds its way down into walls. I'm going to pretend that rats don't do that. They're... scared of heights?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:44 PM
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That's the spirit.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:45 PM
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344: So they're really nervous when they're rooting for your earwax while you sleep.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:47 PM
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I worked in a 12th story office that had rats in the ceiling. Of course this was in DC, where the rat population exceeds the human one.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:47 PM
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Rats: abort mission! They're onto us!


Posted by: Stink Bugs | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:49 PM
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I once came upon a rat's nest while breaking up a small cement pad. The first few hammer blows had the concrete split wide (which wouldn't happen if it hadn't been undermined by rats) and the smell came up. Then the rats came. Don't bother trying to hit rats with a sledge hammer unless you've had training.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:50 PM
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Does Whack-A-Mole count as training?


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:52 PM
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Don't bother trying to hit rats with a sledge hammer unless you've had training.

And they charge when wounded.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:54 PM
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I've had squirrels living in my ceiling and walls for years now. About every other year my landlord sets traps and they disappear until the next fall. You get used to the scratching and eventually tune it out as background noise.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:54 PM
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340: Squirrels make a lot of noise, in my experience. And the ones in my old neighborhood must've been refugees from NIMH studies or something, because they were preternaturally smart. Way smarter than rats. And more agile what with the jumping and running and stuff. My vote would probably still be squirrels. Rats would be quieter.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:55 PM
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You get used to the scratching and eventually tune it out as background noise.

Which reminds me: does nosflow host a radio show anymore these days?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:56 PM
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351: You don't wound many rats with a sledge hammer. It's kind of a Yoda-ish "do or do not do" as far as killing the rat. I would assume, since I never came close to hitting one.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 7:59 PM
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I guess I could ignore them, as long as I can manage to start sleeping with earplugs. But this being awakened at 7 AM by squirrels thing is not tolerable.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:01 PM
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I haven't followed essear's ceiling and wall problem closely, but it sounds like it's obviously squirrels. They can be really noisy; they're kind of bold and bang around more than you'd think.

They can do some serious damage to insulation, interior wiring and whatnot* stuff, so tell the maintenance people that. The landlord should by rights be concerned about the damage.

* I can no longer say "whatnot" with a straight face, having listened to a CSPAN interview with Jonah Goldberg in which he said it 50 goddamn million times.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:02 PM
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Oh, pwned, I see.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:04 PM
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358: Do I need to see the rest of that interview where the guy was explaining how the lady butt-hurt him? Or was the commonly circulated video portion enough?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:04 PM
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I carry water for none of BB, Cory Doctorow, his pitiable hangers-on or the grudge-preening N//ls/n H/yd/n moderation regime,* but "Wow, looks like I touched a nerve!" is something I normally expect to see preceding a couple of Sappho-esque fragments of poorly-spelled Palinology.

* Cough Racefail cough.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:05 PM
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Speaking of small animals, here's a giant WTF from local news.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700082631/Former-Murray-animal-control-officer-alleges-cruelty-discrimination.html?s_cid=rss-30

SALT LAKE CITY -- A former animal control officer who says she was traumatized by her supervisor's alleged actions -- including pulling the head off a live kitten -- has filed a federal lawsuit against Murray City...In the lawsuit filed Monday in the U.S. District Court, Johnson says she complained about Bowman's conduct over the years but nothing was done. The city in 2008 conducted a two-month investigation, resulting in Bowman being demoted from supervisor and taking a pay cut. He quit the city in March...Fondaco referred questions to Mark Tolman, a Salt Lake attorney who represents the city...In the letter, Tolman wrote that Bowman, after a failed attempt to euthanize the kitten, tried to relieve its suffering by "cervical separation." which means breaking its neck. "Unfortunately, perhaps due to the stress of the moment, Mr. Bowman apparently used too much force and inadvertently decapitated the animal."

Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:07 PM
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355. I asked recently here and he said "no".


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:07 PM
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358: Thanks. Maybe mentioning possible damage would help me get something done.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:09 PM
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My building doesn't have insulation. It's mostly thick ancient brick walls.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:10 PM
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361: Well, that was after they started laying in with all the personal attacks. But you can't say anything there that suggests that anything which existed between say 1982 and 1997, could be interesting or valid. Everything new on the web Must. Be. New. And. Unique! It's sad, really.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:11 PM
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360: I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. It doesn't matter much: in what I heard, Goldberg was explaining what he meant by "liberal fascism" -- turns out it's a lot of this and that and whatnot.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:13 PM
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362: In scanning that initially, I ran "former" and "Murray" together, and thought that there was a furry working as an animal control officer who was being harassed for her perversion. Now that would've passed the man-bites-dog test!


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:13 PM
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Natilo bait

Senior Tory London council person:

"The point I'm making here is in the new era of very difficult financial choices are we able to continue with the luxury of demonstrations going forward in a very liberal manner with a small 'l' and commit the costs that we have in the past? I don't believe we can afford to go forward in that way."


Speaking to the Metropolitan Police Authority, O'Connell said that policing protests would no longer be seen as a "priority" by residents:

"Should we not actually be considering whether we can continue offering the [policing] service to these demonstrations? Should we not have a situation where we get to the stage where if the funding isn't there to provide the service, we should be having a conversation with the organisers where we say "you cannot have your event because we do not have the resources to fund it"?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:13 PM
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355: Which reminds me: does nosflow host a radio show anymore these days?

great, now thanks, i was waiting forever when the music will begin and there are noises
but, really, my rats


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:16 PM
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Oh, I forgot about this from earlier:

it bugs the hell out of me that the entire domestic wine industry is controlled by one man's palette

Thomas Arvid? This place used to have standards, man.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:19 PM
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369: Huh, well, actually, in my cynicism, I'd assumed that was already the case everywhere, since it's how they do things here. Basically, you can't get a permit unless you are willing to pay for off-duty cops to provide security. In practice what that means is that the cops show up at the start of the demo, talk to the organizers, and ask them to stay on one side of the street and stop at red lights. Or, they round up 800 people and charge a few of them with blocking traffic, and the charges are either dismissed, or people plead guilty to jaywalking and get a $50 fine. All bets were off for the RNC in 2008 of course, and for ISAG in 2000, but those were special situations. Your bog-standard peace or labor march basically goes off exactly the same way as it would have if it had been given a permit.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:20 PM
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Everything new on the web Must. Be. New. And. Unique! It's sad, really.

A great deal about the Doctorow Weltanschauung is risible and stupid, but I wouldn't call it "sad": as the pains of the world go, a pack of twerps luxuriating in the I-hate-my-parents-they're-so-lame-this-toy-is-the-greatest-thing-ever developmental phase is pretty venial.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:21 PM
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My impression from what I read about New York protests is they pay a standard fee for a demo permit and the rest is on the city. Anybody know if that's how it actually works? In any case, he isn't proposing that the demonstrators be required to hire security, but rather that political protests be banned as one of the luxuries that are no longer affordable in these new budget cutting times.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:31 PM
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367: Something different indeed. I'm speaking of a strange CSPAN meets daytime talk show moment.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:32 PM
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"Unfortunately, perhaps due to the stress of the moment, Mr. Bowman apparently used too much force and inadvertently decapitated the animal."

You must admit, that would end its suffering just as quickly.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:53 PM
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367: Moby's talking about this.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:57 PM
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I've killed hundreds of mice through cervical dislocation and never come close to separating the head from the body. The worst is accidentally ripping the skin, if the mouse is too fat and you can't get a hold on the joint between the head and the spine. Yuck. Presumably the procedure is different with a cat but it would take some seriously excessive force to rip the damn head off.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 8:59 PM
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377: Holy shit, awkward.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:07 PM
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I've killed hundreds of mice through cervical dislocation and never come close to separating the head from the body.

Except when you need to make a point?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:15 PM
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377: I thought everybody knew.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-10 9:16 PM
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345: aw, that's so cute that you think that.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 11-17-10 1:14 AM
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IMA COMINTAGETCHA ESSEAR. Parsimon's house blows.


Posted by: SNAKE IN THE CLOSET | Link to this comment | 11-17-10 1:31 AM
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You have the kind of optimism that lets you ignore rats, which are widely noted for living in walls,

YOU SHOULD PRAY IT'S JUST RATS, ESSEAR.


Posted by: SQUAMOUS HP LOVECRAFT | Link to this comment | 11-17-10 2:05 AM
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Is this where I should mention again that Doctorow's Mary Sue protagonist in "Down and Out" was such a massive prick that it literally embarrassed me that it was so obvious that that was who he wanted to be?


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 11-17-10 9:02 AM
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385: I think it's generally accepted that Doctorow is a terrible writer, F.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-17-10 9:08 AM
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