Re: Oh, Nostalgia!

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I like the discussions where people take seriously Zuckerberg's assertions that Facebook is about "transparency" and then go on to point out that wikileaks is not about the same thing. Insightful.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12- 9-10 10:34 PM
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Nostalgia is not what is used to be.


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 12- 9-10 11:08 PM
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I was listening to the Diane Rehm show last night, and this just drove me crazy. I haven't fully thought out what I think about the wiki leaks business, but I'm quite sure that it's not terrorism. Ugh!


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 5:02 AM
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It's kind of amazing how quickly the right wing moved from inventing the concept of "unlawful combatant" to arguing it should be applied to their political enemy. I'd snark about how I'm nostalgic for the conservatives of the early august and their promising that going down this slope was unthinkable, but I don't actually remember any of them so doing.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 5:13 AM
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august s/b aughts. DYA.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 5:47 AM
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Terrorism is anything thats bad for America.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:09 AM
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Terrorism is anything thats bad for real America.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:19 AM
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4,5: I thought you were making some very clever point comparing The Guns of August with the period immediately preceding the September 11, 2001 attacks.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:59 AM
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I'm getting nostalgic for old school "smoking is awesome" campaigns. I'm starting to think this is some sort of super sneaky trick to make me take up smoking by being the world's biggest asshats about it.

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/647245.html

THURSDAY, Dec. 9 (HealthDay News) -- As little as one cigarette a day, or even just inhaling smoke from someone else's cigarette, could be enough to cause a heart attack and even death, warns a report released Thursday by U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Regina M. Benjamin. "The chemicals in tobacco smoke reach your lungs quickly every time you inhale, causing damage immediately," Benjamin said in a statement. "Inhaling even the smallest amount of tobacco smoke can also damage your DNA, which can lead to cancer."


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:02 AM
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Would anyone like to hear my perspective on the overuse of the word "terrorism"?

Just kidding. It strikes me though that this is exactly the type of situation that a lot of people to the left were hoping their vote for Obama would avoid or at least mitigate. If Obama had done anything in the last couple of years to retain the moral high-ground, rather than exchanging his birthright for a mess of pottage over and over again, he'd be the perfect president to go on TV and give a really thoughtful, well-reasoned argument about why it doesn't make sense to listen to rightists who go around calling everyone "terrorists". But, sadly, that day will never come.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:03 AM
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When in doubt, assume I'm not being clever.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:03 AM
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even just inhaling smoke from someone else's cigarette, could be enough to cause a heart attack and even death

Possibly the dumbest fucking press release ever.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:07 AM
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"Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion." ...Wikidef

I don't see much coercion, because apparently Assange has anarchistic aims, but terrorizing diplomatic and military functionaries and superiors? Why not? Sounds like a great idea to me. And the overreaction certainly looks like they are terrorized.

This thread at CT and Henry's review (and the threads about Steampunk and the fin de 19th sickle) inspired me, mostly to read more good books but also partly to nostalgia. For the kind of politics that led to the New Deal.

I say no more to avoid knocks on door.

(PS:I have been playing with a fun way to express a filthy perjorative for Obama, but then I remembered Malcolm X had done it more eloquently and directly than I ever could, back in those more liberated honest days of youth.)


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:15 AM
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12: Just reading that press release might cause a heart attack and even death.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:16 AM
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Where are the Snowdens of yesteraugust?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:17 AM
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I wouldn't have thought somebody could come up with a way to blame the right wing noise machine on Obama but, huh, I would have been wrong.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:19 AM
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13: See, that's why I eschew beginning a thesis with a dictionary definition. That definition doesn't make sense. First off, "terrorism is the systematic use of terror" is simply a tautology. I wasn't under the impression that terrorism was the systematic use of cute fluffy bunnies, so how have I been enlightened? Second, the "especially as a means of coercion" implies that there are some cases where terrorism is not intended to be coercive. Like when? All this definition seems to be saying is that terrorism is some kind of procedure that is not random. Which is somewhat questionable as a proposition in its own right.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:20 AM
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9: I wonder if this has anything to do with Obama supposedly really kicking the habit now -- http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/09/obama-is-winning-one-big-battle/

I would say congratulations are in order, except that I'm not entirely convinced that substituting crack for cigarettes is a good long-term move.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:22 AM
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16: I'm not saying he started it, but I don't think I'm way off base, especially given the reaction to his race speech during the campaign, in thinking that he won more than a few votes specifically because people thought he would be an effective antidote to the RWNM. And I see no proof that he has been.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:22 AM
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And I see no proof that he has been.

I think this is one point we probably would all agree on.



Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:24 AM
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implies that there are some cases where terrorism is not intended to be coercive.

State terrorism can be intended to be dispiriting(?). Think East Germany, or neo-liberal economic policies.
Digby has a great video of a sheriff telling a renter she has 30 minutes to move her possessions out of her house.

Maybe I should work up a better description than "dispiriting" but my misanthropy has reached a point where I hate language and communication.

G'day y'all.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:28 AM
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21: That sounds pretty coercive to me, both in general and in your example.

As I've said before, ad nauseum, I think most people are operating under a implicit definition of terrorism as "the use of coercive violence by non-state actors to further their political aims", with the understanding that, for any given political perspective, there exist a number of actors who would fall under that definition, but don't, because the speaker broadly agrees with their aims.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:33 AM
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Maybe I should work up a better description than "dispiriting" but my misanthropy has reached a point where I hate language and communication.

According to one of the books Henry reviewed in your link at 13, the persistence of illiteracy in highland SE Asia may have been partly a functional adaptation in order to better avoid being assimilated into predatory lowland states! So, hey, your reaction may have respectable precedent...


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:33 AM
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Molly points out another nice bit of nostalgia: Because of the new "stimulus" deal Obama struck with Republicans, the people on the radio are now back to talking endlessly about the size of Obama's package.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:50 AM
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On the way to work this morning, I heard "Travelin' Band" on the radio and the DJ mentioned that it had been on the notorious list of "inappropriate" songs that Clear Channel sent to its stations following 9/11. I suppose because the song mentioned flying. There are a few on the list that are real puzzlers such as "What a Wonderful World".


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:18 AM
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Terrorism is everything that is the case.


Posted by: Opinionated Paranoid Right-Wing Ludwig Wittgenstein | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:24 AM
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Nearly everything on that list is a mystery. "Ruby Tuesday"? "Travelin Man"?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:25 AM
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9/11 was a Tuesday, so I'm guessing some ruby=blood connection.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:29 AM
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Yeesh. Well-known terrorist anthem "Ticket to Ride"?! I guess I understand in theory, but...


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:39 AM
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"Morning Has Broken"?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:39 AM
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30: Cat Stevens converted to Islam, don't you know.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:41 AM
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"Travelin' Band" starts with the line "737 comin' out of the sky."

Basically they paid someone five dollars for each song they could explain was colorably inappropriate, right?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:41 AM
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It's kind of incredible how underinclusive the list was, considering the apparent concern over songs that mention New York, sadness, hope, religion, peace, war, violence, crime or the Middle East. I mean, right off the top of my head, no Prince? Sign o' the Times? Let's Go Crazy? I Would Die 4 U?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:56 AM
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I like the fact that "Imagine" is on the list. Peace and atheism? None of that please. That's probably the reason that "What a Wonderful World" and "99 Luftballons" are there. They wouldn't be warry enough.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:59 AM
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Iron Maiden, on the other hand, is still OK.

Running, scrambling, fire,
Rolling, turning, diving, going in again.
Running, scrambling, fire, Rolling, turning, diving,
Run, live to fly, fly to live, do or die.
Won't you run, live to fly, fly to live, Aces high!


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:00 AM
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It's amazing how long this kind of stupidity has run. The liner notes for my Spike Jones CD collection said there was an outcry against the straight part of their "By the Sea" because the lyric "over and under and then up for air" was misheard as "...up her ass."


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:11 AM
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"Peace Train" was banned for the obvious reason that peace is for hippies.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:16 AM
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"Peace Train" was banned for the obvious reason that peace is for hippies. it is among the world's shittiest songs.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:22 AM
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Ob-la-di-ob-la-da??? Because it takes the point of view that "Life goes on"?

I'm baffled.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:22 AM
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13.last is pretty nasty.


Posted by: a fan of bob's best work | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:23 AM
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I get the impression that somebody used that list just to ban airplay of a few songs that just irritated them. I mean, Ob-la-di, ob-la-da, WTF?


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:25 AM
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The banned John Parr's "St. Elmo's Fire," and not CUB/TMBG's "New York City", or The Crystal's "He's Not A Rebel"? Hmph.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:26 AM
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I mean, obviously they didn't need to ban "Kill The Poor" or whatever, but yeah, there's a lot of obvious omissions.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:27 AM
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Ob-la-di, O-sa-ma
Life goes on, brah!
Allah, Allah, life goes on.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:28 AM
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44: That would be so great if it really were the thinking. Goddamn crypto-muslim Beatles.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:35 AM
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Presumably there's a bunch of stuff by the Fugs and the Dead Kennedys and early Zappa and suchlike that wasn't on the list because it was banned already, or more likely they'd never heard of it.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:38 AM
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I assume for Ob-la-di the problem is that the message "Life goes on" is inconsistent with the message that 9/11 changed everything and we must have endless war. Moving on is un-American!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:39 AM
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I thought Ob-la-di had coded references to acid tripping.

Also:

Oh, Nostalgia!
Where the mind goes
tripping through the yeaaars!


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:42 AM
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But what does acid tripping have to do with terrorism? See also banning Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:43 AM
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I thought Ob-la-di had coded references to acid tripping.

No. That's every other Beatles song.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:50 AM
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Except the ones with coded references to heroin.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:50 AM
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But what does acid tripping have to do with terrorism? See also banning Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.

Charlie Manson? For the government line on the effects of various drugs, see Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.



Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:51 AM
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It's funny that the work of one tiny Clear Channel functionary has lived on for so long. Oh anonymous memo writer, you will live in infamy!


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:56 AM
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40: yeah, I think this is the point where bob tips from "entertaining if occasionally obsessive Kunstler disciple" to "unpleasant little scrote".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:57 AM
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ajay, he's always tipped back and forth. The collected works would be a real treat to read.


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:00 AM
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13, 40, 54: Fantasizing about bloodily murdering rich people is tolerable among guilty white liberals like most of us, but fantasizing about using racial slurs is quite beyond the fringe of thoughtcrime.*

* Not an endorsement of racial slurs.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:01 AM
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Fantasizing about bloodily murdering rich people

ACID IS GRAVY! FEED THE PIGS!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:06 AM
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But what does acid tripping have to do with terrorism?

"Drugs are bad because if you do drugs, you're a hippie, and hippies suck."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:08 AM
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I get the impression that somebody used that list just to ban airplay of a few songs that just irritated them

And a Michael Jackson purist, to boot. Alient Ant Farm's cover of "Smooth Criminal" but not the original? Okay, then.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:08 AM
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Hm. Lets make a list of the songs they probably encouraged playing, instead. The Cure have any pertinent material?


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:11 AM
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Also, they banned "Walk Like An Egyptian" but not "Mesopotamia"? The former is the way more irritating song.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:15 AM
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That song list is wonderful. I'd heard of it but never actually read it.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:16 AM
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48: I thought Ob-la-di had coded references to acid tripping.

Played backwards you hear, "The towers will fall".


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:17 AM
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62. It's a puzzle and a beauty.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:17 AM
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63: Seems like an easy thing to avoid during radio play, though.


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:18 AM
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65: But what if you put it on the air while someone's car is in reverse? WHAT ABOUT THEN?!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:20 AM
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66: Dude. Whoa. Dude.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:22 AM
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I recall a small reverse effect on local public station WYEP (where I heard the list mentioned this morning), with a couple of things like Phil Ochs "Tape From California" --New York City has exploded and it's crashed upon my head--getting a bit more airplay than they would have.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:26 AM
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54, 55, 56:What would Malcolm say?

C'mon, what do you imagine Malcolm X would think of Obama?

Y'all really don't care, do ya?

Signofthetimes, that Obama is considered the more authentic, compassionate, principled relatable of the two.
Signofthetimes.

It wasn't, and isn't, a racial slur. It is also a signofthetimes that you can't get that.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:27 AM
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Accepting, arguendo, the logic of the list, I can see why "They're comin' to America, today!" would be on it.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:29 AM
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Typing "y'all" is the comment-thread counterpart to the middle-aged Caucasian's fist-bump while addressing his intended fist-bumpee as "my brother."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:34 AM
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71:Meant to be ironic and insulting. Preceded by "G'day?"

It is a fair question as to whether I have too much privilege to quote from the Message to the Grass Roots, or use it in any way. It was a fair question back then, too.

Malcolm wouldn't much like me, either.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:39 AM
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NACHOS!


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:41 AM
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Do you think Malcolm would like you better than me?

Because you are too, what "evolved?", to reference Malcolm's Message?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:42 AM
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Really, when you come down to it, the important question is who Malcolm X would have liked best. I say he would have liked me best because I, too, used to read the dictionary, and once recreationally abused an overdose of nutmeg. It means we would have had stuff in common to talk about.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:46 AM
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It looks like it's 60 and sunny there, bob. Surely the dogs would love a walk.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:46 AM
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74: Is this an essay contest for white people?

Malcom X would like me better because....

I don't really think Malcolm X would like me. Why should he be different than everybody else?



Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:47 AM
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Typing "y'all"

You know, some of us actually speak that way and not as an affectation.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:48 AM
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77: pwned by 75 -- except I added that special dash of peep self-pity.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:48 AM
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75: I don't eat the white man's pork. So there!


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:48 AM
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Malcolm would have liked Ogged best.

OT: $145?! I got your Hohenstaufen right here, Amazon.com. Wait, it's eligible for free shipping?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:49 AM
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Redd Foxx would like me better than the rest of y'all.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:49 AM
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78: How charming!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:49 AM
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78: I still say y'all. Apo and Malcolm like me best!


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:50 AM
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Digby on the disciple Obama most loved. Loved by Yggles and Klein also.

Orszag has taken that job at Citibank. At this point it's probably wise to assume he's just doing what they're paying him to do --- taking advantage of his knowledge of the political thinking of the White House and the economic crisis to destroy the social safety net. But damn, putting the screws to the disabled who clearly qualify for SSI but would work if there were any jobs by making it harder for them to get SSI is just plain cruel.

The rage just gets unbearable. I'm sorry.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:50 AM
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To go back to the OP, I went to an amazing dinner with this guy in 2002, where he said "any honest definition of terrorism covers about 1/3 of what I wanted to order when I was at the NSA." He also said "fuck the Navy and spending billions of dollars to protect porpoises, waves, and sea lions." One of the best dinners of my life so far.

On where the thread is now, as you all know, I eat a shit-ton of pork, so I think I'm out of the running for Malcolm's favorite, alas.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:55 AM
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recreationally abused an overdose of nutmeg
Not an easy thing to do.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:58 AM
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I'm not quite sure how I feel to the fact that "All songs by Rage Against the Machine" is on that list. On the one hand, I mean, sure, you'd expect that. On the other, wow.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:01 AM
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87 Never spaced out while grating nutmeg into your carbonara? The taste can really blow your mind.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:03 AM
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87: Actually, fairly easy. Not really worth it, but not difficult.

Look, it was the Peace Corps. We were bored.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:07 AM
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To get psychotropic effects you need to ingest a lot, and, while delicious in fractions of a teaspoon quantities, it is absolutely vile. Kind of a pleasant high, as I recall, but completely not worth it unless you're bored, desperate, or stranded on some rock in the Pacific.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:13 AM
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85: I agree that bringing up reforming the SSI disability system was a very odd choice, but I really can't see that his suggestion of requiring employers to provide private disability insurance would have any appeal to Republicans at all.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:22 AM
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I may have missed a discussion of this point on an earlier thread, but I was thinking the attack on Prince Charles and Camilla's car showcases the relative health of British society, esp. with regard to state use of force. I'm pretty sure that if people "beat on the side of [Barack and Michelle Obama's] armored, chauffeur-driven Rolls-Royce with sticks and bottles, smashing a side window, denting a rear panel and splashing the car with white paint" they'd be shot, because secret service couldn't be sure they weren't about to do something much worse.
Maybe no truly analogous (which would be banned anyway) situation could exist in the U.S., because of different protest cultures and different security procedures?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:33 AM
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93: Cough guns cough.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:36 AM
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Maybe no truly analogous (which would be banned anyway) situation could exist in the U.S., because of different protest cultures and different security procedures?

My sense is that the situation couldn't arise in the U.S. because of different security procedures.



Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:38 AM
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I used "y'all" until I was in my late 20s. I didn't have the accent to go with it, so it probably sounded funny. After a couple of years outside of the south I switched over to "you guys" because "y'all" suddenly didn't seem like an actual word anymore when other people weren't saying it.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:39 AM
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94: Good point. More guns in the U.S. and also more worries about colds transmitted by coughing.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:39 AM
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I don't think anyone could get close enough to Ed Rendell's car to bang on the windows without getting beaten and thrown in jail, let alone the president.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:40 AM
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Sanders is apparently filibustering. It's on CSPAN2.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:46 AM
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Thought about the guns point, but could it be the whole difference? Sure any given person in the U.S. is much, much more likely to own or have access to a gun than anyone in the UK, but there are dangerous things someone could by carrying other than guns, like explosives and at least from the perspective of a security service, isn't someone vandalizing a car with really important people in it more likely to be also violating even the most stringent gun laws?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:46 AM
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He's nearly 4 hours in, so sorry if someone has already mentioned this.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:48 AM
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http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN2.aspx


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:49 AM
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98: I believe the President would be permitted to get fairly close to Ed Rendell's car. For the current President, your claim would be accurate with respect to Governor Christie.


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:50 AM
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He's nearly 4 hours in, so sorry if someone has already mentioned this.

That's some old-school filibustering. Amazing.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 11:54 AM
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And it's a barn burner.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:00 PM
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100: I think HRH's security detail erred in letting protesters so close to the vehicle at all, but they may generally operate with a much smaller, softer defensive radius than American security types guarding a subject of comparable import, because of (i) guns and (ii) narrow London streets, making such close encounters more likely. Charles' self-presentation is also pretty approachable, as crown princes go,* so that may factor into it. Pure speculation, though.

* Clive James wrote about Charles once that he is immensely gracious, courteous and grateful, but has spent his life in such circumstances that he does not appreciate that, for many people, his merest invitation or query is a disruptive summons -- meaning that James had several times spent a day traveling to and from wherever Charles happened to be, in order to spend five or ten minutes answering a passing question. But who knows? The only first-person anecdote I've heard about encountering Charles was an extremely funny imitation of his and his mother's accents.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:03 PM
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98: I've been right next to various governors of various states. Not Rendell, but that's because Harrisburg is a desolate wasteland unfit for human habitation.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:04 PM
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Apparently not really a filibuster though.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:05 PM
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105:And it is irrelevant, which is why Reid is letting it happen. I spose it might make some feel a little better after the bill is signed by Obama. That's weird.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:06 PM
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I've been right next to various governors of various states.

Ladies....


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:12 PM
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It is a filibuster until a cloture vote is taken, and passes, and there's a time limit on when it can be had.

I'm sure there are 60 votes for the deal. Sanders is saying stuff that needs to be said, though, and maybe some sound bites will get into the public consciousness.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:17 PM
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Sanders is saying stuff that needs to be said, though, and maybe some sound bites will get into the public consciousness.

Reading this, it occurred to me that, having the first half and more of my life in New England and still having friends and relatives there (some even in Vermont), I cannot recall a single thing that Bernie Sanders has ever said. I feel kind of bad about this.

On the other hand, I have heard many times the Vermonters' joke about sending Bernie to Washington, year after year, because otherwise he'd be in Vermont.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:28 PM
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98 If Rendell had the level of security he had when I saw him a couple days before the election, then if he were driving through a big mass demonstration, then sure they could. They might get arrested and thrown in jail after the fact, but at the time I suspect the security people would be completely focused on just getting him out of there. Obama on the other hand was completely surrounded by very alert and paranoid looking secret service types when I was right up by him at a rally in 2008. No uncontrolled crowds were being allowed anywhere near close enough for that sort of incident.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:32 PM
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That's some old-school filibustering. Amazing.

OTOH, he really didn't need to bring Carl Crawford's new contract with the Red Sox into this. C'mon.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:33 PM
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Although his reference was vague enough that maybe he was talking about Werth's contract with the Nationals. I guess it's okay to use that one as a way to make a point about the US not making education a priority.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:35 PM
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Apparently Sherrod Brown and Mary Landrieu have spelled Sanders a couple of times. (No, I didn't say the spelled "Sanders," though I like the image of their painting their faces, football fan style.)


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:36 PM
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112.2: I've never heard that joke myself, and I can't imagine why people would repeat it other than vague tribal socialist-bashing. He held only one elected office in Vermont, as mayor of Burlington, and he was a good mayor.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:42 PM
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117: Everybody tells that same joke about every member of Congress.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:45 PM
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That you'd never heard of it means you live in a cave got lucky for who represents you in Congress.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:46 PM
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I live in a cave without any way to close a tag.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:46 PM
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Nouvelle vague tribal socialist-bashing.

I like the concept, but we need something a little sharper to draw Generation Y. Is there a social media component?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:59 PM
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Last time I saw our Gov was at the John Mellencamp/Bob Dylan concert. He did not take a security detail with him to the port-a-potty.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 12:59 PM
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My almost-rep (stolen from me in 2004 by Republican gerrymandering; hope you rot in jail, Tom Delay!) Lloyd Doggett sponsored the House resolution against the tax billionaire welfare package. Otherwise, I am represented by craven fuckwits.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 1:03 PM
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I like the concept, but we need something a little sharper to draw Generation Y. Is there a social media component?
Yeah, facebook needs a "tribally bash this" button.


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 1:03 PM
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119: Vermonters have gotten lucky, or something: Sanders, Leahy, Welch, Jeffords, plus Dean. That's even better than the blue state where I now live.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 1:04 PM
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Psst! CC cruises port-potties at senior citizens' concerts. Pass it on.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 1:06 PM
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Yeah, facebook needs a "tribally bash this" button.

[Pike]


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 1:06 PM
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[reflexively disapprove!]


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 1:10 PM
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Bernie's talking right now about how credit unions are doing just fine with a credit card interest rate cap at 15%. They didn't need a bailout and aren't whining about prohibitions on usury. I heart my credit union. Fuck you, banks that used to get my business!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 2:40 PM
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Also, Bernie sez Wall Street banks aren't run by good people who made mistakes: "Their business model is fradulent."


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 2:42 PM
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Coming up on seven hours. Bernie is teh hero.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 2:47 PM
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For half a minute, I forgot the above part of the thread and thought the Fed Chairman popped way off the rails.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 2:49 PM
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I keep reading the "Oh" in the post title as "On" which makes me want sing it to the tune of "On <Stanley's Favorite State>!". Not sure if Stanley had in mind a similar thing but with "Oh! Susanna".


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 2:57 PM
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Sanders was just talking about home heating costs, but no bubble wrap.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 2:57 PM
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Although it is not an actual filibuster, I also like the optics of someone up there actually talking at length in contrast to the simple vote to not end debate and everyone goes home and the media write it up as if the Constitutionally-mandated 60-vote hurdle was not cleared.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 3:03 PM
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I think Jane Hamsher somebody said that Bernie only plays the hero when it won't make a difference. This goes to the thread above. This information is obviously already "out there."

They don't care. It doesn't matter. We have not yet accepted what that means.

From comments to this Digby post

David Futurama

Yeah, Not Spoonfed, it's all out in the open and us knowing what they are doing does not give them pause in the least. Only really smart people like N. Klein knew this years ago, now every schmoe knows it or should. They slap us in the face with it daily.

One thing that has changed, is that when Confessions of an Economic Hitman and Shock Doctrine came out during the Bush years, all this was seen as bad by thinking people. Bush, Empire, wars of choice, it was easy for Dems to denounce it and pretend they were against it. But when Obama gave bipartisan cover to all of it, it sucked the wind right out of the opposition.

The elites were counting on the two party system, tribalism, attachment to party, and good old, fashioned peer pressure to keep most politically active people in line and they were right. There is literally nothing that the cultists and the Ezra Kleins of the world will not condone and provide an apologia for, from torture to drone bomb drops on civilians, as long as it is "their" side doing it.

It is difficult and painful to wake up and most people still prefer the easy lies to the hard truths even when they know the difference.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 3:07 PM
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The filibuster is just a special case of the Senate principle of allowing unlimited debate, right? I wonder if they could stop him with a cloture motion and go on to whatever's next, which is probably recess.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 3:07 PM
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I think Jane Hamsher somebody said that Bernie only plays the hero when it won't make a difference.

Valuable information. I stand corrected.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 3:14 PM
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One interesting question for me, is that after democracy has been killed by oligarchy and electoral politics has become irrelevant except as an extension of the spoils system, why do people, especially the intellectual elites, still dance with the zombie?

Oh. wait. Spoils system.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 3:24 PM
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Oh, I guess the cloture motion has already been "filed" so all they have to do is invoke it, vote, and that's that. Unless cloture fails. So it basically is a filibuster, just without any element of surprise or uncertainty, really.

I just checked the front pages of the New York Times, Washington Post, and CNN. Sanders is mentioned on all three, in text-only links as part of lists of links, and not featured prominently even within those lists (though there are links to video of the speech, at least). Too bad. Fox news actually calls it a filibuster and even has the link up high, but in small font.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 3:33 PM
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Stanley's Favorite State

I have a favorite state?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 5:07 PM
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141: does "high" count?


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 5:10 PM
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Wisconsin, right?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 5:14 PM
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Vegetative.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 5:32 PM
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Tumesced.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 5:53 PM
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133: I was thinking more "Oh, Valencia!"


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:09 PM
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Grand old Turgid State!


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:22 PM
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146: Or "Hail! Fredonia".


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:26 PM
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Healthy Prostate!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:26 PM
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I think Jane Hamsher somebody said that Bernie only plays the hero when it won't make a difference.

As opposed to Hamsher who only plays the hero if it gets her on Fox News, a gig with Grover Norquist, or plenty of money-making page hits from her shut-in fans. Did you know Hamsher had a bit part as a female demon in Natural Born Killers? Tarentino Somebody said it was the only role she was qualified for.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:28 PM
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140: Oh, I guess the cloture motion has already been "filed" so all they have to do is invoke it, vote, and that's that. Unless cloture fails. So it basically is a filibuster, just without any element of surprise or uncertainty, really.

Forgive me, but can someone explain this? I'm tired. I heard about Sanders' filibustering, or just speechifying, this afternoon and it put a smile on my face, but at work I didn't have time to figure out what was going on; my understanding has been that the Senate tax deal vote wasn't scheduled until Monday in the first place.

So what is Bernie -- if we may call him that -- doing in terms of technical Senate procedure? Nothing, really, I thought. The TPM posts I've read on this haven't provided further information, just breathless reporting.

His heroic 8+ hour talk can be viewed as filibustering to the extent that it's holding up Senate business (you can't conduct any additional business while such a thing goes on), but the vote wasn't on the floor in the first place, and it sort of sounds like they had no other business scheduled anyway. Or something.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:28 PM
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I have some clients at DMH who can't work at all, others who benefit from having SSI while they finish school, and others who need the Medicare insurance. There is a real problem with getting appropriate health insurance without getting on SSI if you have a serious enough mental illness--even if you should beontrack not to be. I have a client with bipolar disorder and past psychosis history. She's in college and on SSI. She simply can't go on regular student health insurance and needs access to specialized clinics for blood work.

There are others who don't work, because the system is complicated, and there are some people who could work with support but don't want to. And I'd never call them lazy. A lot of the jobs available are crappy---pushing carts at a supermarket, ringing Salvation Army bells etc., and I wouldn't want them either.

Then there's my super psychotic client who already thinks she has a job as a private eye for God. Even Social Security wouldn't deny her (I hope). I mean if a judge deems her unfit to enter into legally binding contracts, then...You never know, though, with these Republicans.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:41 PM
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152 was vaguely aimed at bob and digby.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:47 PM
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And my old job.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 6:57 PM
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How crazy would it be for me to venture out into tonight's snowpocalypse* to go hang out with my friends at the bar? It's only one short bus ride. And it's still so early. I feel silly being in this early on Friday night everyweeekend.

*This is really getting kinda silly. Every freakin' snowstorm they're on the teevee and the interwebs prophesying doom, and it's not nearly as snowy as the snows of my childhood. I made the mistake of stopping at CUB tonight on the way home from work, thinking I could pop in and grab pumpkin pie fixins. The lines were all the way back to the frozen foods! There were no free carts! It was like armageddon in December! I don't know what's wrong with my fellow Minnesotans these days, I purely don't.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:09 PM
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#153. Well, psychotic or not, I think Bob could get a job ringing bells for the Salvation Army.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:12 PM
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How crazy would it be for me to venture out into tonight's snowpocalypse* to go hang out with my friends at the bar?

Not crazy at all. Those times out are the best, anyway.

I feel as though I should feel badly for being in so early on a weekend night, but hell, I'm way too old for that kind of pressure, and I work on Saturdays anyway, so it's a school night as far as I'm concerned.

But you, you should go out.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:17 PM
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it's not nearly as snowy as the snows of my childhood

Natilo is Fran├žois Villon?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:23 PM
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Parsi, the Lady Gradient and our little Partial Derivatives and I are thinking of going up to Baltimore week after Christmas: are there things that must not be missed by daytrippers?


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:24 PM
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How crazy would it be for me to venture out into tonight's snowpocalypse* to go hang out with my friends at the bar?

Not crazy at all, but snow? Freezing temperatures? This is what the emergency booze is for.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:25 PM
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Wear a hat. You lose 78% of your heat through you head if you've been drinking and have a head.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:41 PM
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I'm gonna do it! Snowbound drunkenness and cannibalism, here I come!


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:42 PM
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are there things that must not be missed by daytrippers?

Hm. How old are your young ones? And how long would you be here? And, more importantly, what kind of things turn you on, visiting-wise?

The Baltimore National Aquarium is pretty cool, if the kids are into marveling of that sort -- depends on how much of that would be novel. The Aquarium does feature an awesome (to my mind) rainforest addition, multi-leveled, where you can view rainforesty life at the forest floor, at midlevel, and in the upper reaches. Comes complete with mist. I think will and BR and company have come here to visit it more than once.

That's located in the so-called Inner Harbor, which is fairly built up (you'll find a sort of mini-mall place stretching along the harbor, with touristy shops and restaurants which are perfectly serviceable for that kind of thing).

Or if you wanted more local flavor, you might want to visit the Fells Point neighborhood; it's the old waterfront, gentrified for the most part but not heavily built up, more charming and local, with piers and cobblestone (actually brick) streets. I prefer that to the Inner Harbor.

Rereading, this is a day trip? Hm.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:42 PM
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162: Eat the person with the nicest hat first.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:44 PM
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If you're into that kid of thing, the Baltimore & Ohio museum is pretty cool.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:46 PM
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164: That would probably be a friend of mine with a big red beard.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:46 PM
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Yah day trip, overnight at the longest. Kids are nearly 3 and nearly 1, so stuff where toddlers aren't a huge liability...


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 7:47 PM
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95% of Baltimore is covered in white carpeting, so try to keep the juice in a silly cup.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:04 PM
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Stupid iTouch. S/b sippy cup.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:05 PM
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"juice" is what we call wine, beer, or soda. The kids generally get only water. The oldest discovered he doesn't like our "juice" and that it is "spicy."


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:22 PM
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167: Toddlers are so small and get tired so easily, I don't know what to say there. You need to be able to rest frequently.

As Stormcrow mentions, there are a number of museum-like things here; the Science Museum is also pretty cool, very interactive and kid-friendly, though ages 3 and 1 might be too young still. There's the Baltimore Zoo as well, though I have no idea of their winter hours.

Going with the must-rest-frequently idea, and if you want to get a flavor of Baltimore in its own right, I guess I'd suggest something waterfront: the kids can look at the boats ... but it's going to be pretty cold.

I'd need to know more about what counts for you as workable with toddlers. You can visit Poe's house! I've never been. You can go to the top of the (Baltimore) World Trade Center, which has pretty cool views, 360 degrees, with placards showing the landscape you're now viewing as it was 50 years ago, 100 years ago -- that would be fairly self-paced. You can go to Fort McHenry, which I've actually also never been to.

Or you can just go to the Fell's Point neighborhood (it's where the television show Homicide was filmed), hit a restaurant for crabcakes, walk around the docks a bit; it's small-scale and approachable; there are small shops if that's of interest, and there's a sort of farmer's market, Broadway Market, a long building with a collection of stalls of people selling various foodstuffs -- I don't know how active that is in December.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:23 PM
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Well the oldest is our limiting factor, as he is largely self-propelled and at least marginally self-directed. The youngerst is most often worn. We mostly try to avoid situations where loud voices will earn the stinkeye, and where inappropriate touching (of paintings, exhibits and the like) will land us in jail. But thanks for the tips already!


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:27 PM
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159: Does this mean no Cville? I'm officially offended.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:27 PM
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Stanley, no, just thinking about what to do, and I am taking the whole week off!


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:29 PM
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Also, do you have $5?


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:33 PM
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Well, I've said Fell's Point about 5 times, so that's the best I can do. You could go to the Walters Art Museum, which is terrific, in a neighborhood -- Mount Vernon -- with the (Baltimore) Washington Monument and numerous restaurants and very nice/interesting architecture, but there's the inappropriate touching and the loud voices, so. And it's not on the water. Water is exciting!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 8:50 PM
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I've got, like, thirty goddamn dollars.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:22 PM
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That explanation of the non-filibuster filibuster over at TPM kind of sucks, even though it's basically right, as far as I know.

Traditional old-timey filibuster (post establishment of cloture):

1. Something's being debated.
2. Some old person (or a group of them) decides they're just going to keep talking and prevent the vote from happening.
3. Senators gather together and rally up the votes to invoke cloture.
4. Motion for cloture.

5a. Cloture passes.
6a. Further debate is limited. Usually there isn't a vote immediately, but the limit is set. Some hours later, final vote happens as scheduled.

5b. Cloture fails.
6b. Final vote never happens. At least not at that time.

Now in the current system, step 2: some old person talking, doesn't have to happen. Instead, you just need some old person to say they're going to talk, but for various reasons it's so much trouble to make them talk they don't bother. That's how you get the de facto 60 vote rule. In the older days, the person would have to talk, and they would have to shut them up, because little else could happen until the dispute was resolved. Now they schedule around it and most of what happens on the floor that doesn't consist of actual voting doesn't matter. It would be great if C-SPAN would show some wider angles of empty seats, but I bet they consciously choose not to.

So how is what Sanders did different? It's not really. He didn't have to talk, either. He just chose to. Anyone else in any other case could have done the same if they felt like it. However...

The motion for cloture apparently had already been filed before Sanders started talking. At any moment during the speech, the Senate could have forced it to a cloture vote and stopped him. Sanders, Reid, pretty much everyone else must have known this and agreed at least tacitly to let Sanders talk however long he wanted. But he didn't really delay anything or force anyone to round up votes. If anything, he was trying to rally votes to get a real filibuster started. Everyone already knows the filibuster will be broken when the vote happens.

So I don't think it was any more or any less of a filibuster than the other ones have been. It just involved some talking for the sake of talking.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:47 PM
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Port Discovery is the children's museum in Baltimore. Its pretty cool. Also, I second the recommendation for the B&O railroad museum, which should have some holidayish model train stuff this time of year.

The aquarium is indeed a good one, although my kid didn't really have the patience for it. It addition to the rainforest exhibit, its got some pretty cool shark-tank jonx.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:55 PM
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At any moment during the speech, the Senate could have forced it to a cloture vote and stopped him.

I'm not a Senate rules maven, but I thought there was some minimum amount of time between the motion getting files and the vote. I don't care enough to look it up.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:58 PM
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TJ, you might think about this.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 9:59 PM
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Minimal value added. My kids enjoyed PD.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:00 PM
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I looked it up anyway. A cloture vote takes place one after the Senate has convened for a second day after the motion was filed. They could not have voted on it today, but will vote on it Monday.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:13 PM
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Oh, I didn't realize that. I'm putting off doing work, but not with enough dedication to look other things up. But the larger point stands that this wasn't any different than the usual non-talking filibuster, only with talking to pass some of the time.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:19 PM
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Taking up a day of floor time, which prevents any other business getting done, is not just talking to pass the time. He's laid down a marker, and, one hopes, gotten through to some members of the public.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:34 PM
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Yeah, it's the using up floor time that hurts. Presumably there's other stuff the Senate could be doing, and isn't because of this.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:50 PM
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I'm probably not reading the schedule right, but as far as I can tell, after the usual morning hours bit, the only thing scheduled was a speech by Bernie Sanders to begin at 10:15. No committee meetings/hearings scheduled (and I think it's no longer the case that filibusters hold them up, anyway).

Don't get me wrong, it was a good speech and I hope it had some impact. Had I known he was going to do it, I'd have woken up earlier to watch. I wish more people would do this, and that people who filibuster would have to do this.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-10-10 10:53 PM
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Sanders made a great move. He got about as much publicity as he could for his arguments. Plus, even (especially?) the Tea Partiers have to appreciate the old-school procedural gesture.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 12:01 AM
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It wound up being a pretty fun night out. Only got one free drink, but what're ya gonna do? Got to kvetch and make mean, salacious jokes about my boss, so that's always fun. Got to see friends I haven't seen in 3 months. Got invited to perform at someone else's venue. Got to bus and walk home in the snowpocalypse. It was gratifying, all things considered.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 12:19 AM
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4 out of the top 6 snowfalls in the Twin Cities were in my youth -- '82 and '85 have 2 each. None of the least snowy Decembers were in the 1980s. Two of the most snowy Decembers were. Hopefully this year will inaugurate a new epoch, and my friends' children will remember their snow days as fondly as I do mine.

The sledding on Superintendent's Hill tomorrow is going to be AMAZING, but sadly it's too much of a hassle to get there and I own no sled. Oh well.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 12:48 AM
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TJ: Let me know if you are driving through Richmond and want to meet for lunch/dinner or your kids need a break. Your kids might like to see my dad's farm.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 4:59 AM
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191: Indeed. We're going to figure our plans out fairly soon.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 7:40 AM
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193

189: That sounds lovely, all things considered. I spent the better part of the evening finding new and creative ways to tell this one dude that, no, really, for reals, yo, I don't want to start a musical project where it's just the two of us playing drums and that's all. No, I'm sorry. I mean, I'm very flattered and all. You've said some very nice things. But no.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 8:13 AM
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194

"Playing drums", eh? You kids and your slang.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 8:16 AM
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195

Well, he said "hit the skins together", so I figured he was talking about drums.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 8:31 AM
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196

Beat me daddy, eight to the bar.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 8:43 AM
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Speaking of music, our son just stood his mini-violin on end on the floor and said, "Look, I'm playing a bass." It was the cutest thing ever and I'm starting to think that Swipple is a genetic disorder.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 9:08 AM
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197: Nobody ever dates the bass player, Moby.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 9:09 AM
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199

A string bass isn't better for getting dates?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 9:11 AM
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199: True, you can reach further up into the tree with it.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 9:14 AM
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201

Guitar is to Groupie as Bass is to Grouper.


Posted by: OPINIONATED BOOGIE DOWN | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 9:32 AM
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202

201: You can tell them all apart using scales?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 9:37 AM
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202: I was going to say that drummer is the plum position in a band, but maybe it's a perfect day for bananafish.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-11-10 9:42 AM
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