Re: She does have curly piggy tails

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I lurk, but this punched me in the gut. The comment needs to be addressed with the teacher. I'll let others chime in with their suggestions.


Posted by: Michelle in AZ | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:41 PM
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In spite of me using the words "punched" and "gut," I am not referring to your little HP.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:43 PM
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That's fucked up, hg.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:44 PM
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Honestly? Pull the teacher aside at some point and ask her plainly to stop calling H-P "Piggy", that you feel fairly strongly about this, and that you're quite firm about it, end of story. I'd probably not want to get into an elaborate explanation about it, since it makes me see red -- like, instantly -- as well, but I guess if she seems completely surprised, you could just say that you don't want H-P to grow up with body image issues. And that's that, thank you very much.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:45 PM
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One in eight Americans suffers from hunger. Who is the one in eight in your life?

For a different intepretation of "suffers from hunger".

But seriously, WTF?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:46 PM
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Thanks, you guys. It's good to feel validated. I'm lurking bc I don't have hands free.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:50 PM
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You know, I've probably made a few off-handed remarks about appetite to young children before about their eating styles (pigs are actually more graceful) that I shouldn't have, but I cannot fathom why in the world a daycare provider would think it was charming to refer to a child as piggy for her eating habits.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:51 PM
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Aggh. Totally unacceptable.

I don't think this even comes close to an "I'm being hypersensitive" situation. Just ask the teacher to stop, in a friendly but firm tone. Unless the teacher is insane, she will.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:54 PM
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I'm with everyone else. Way inappropriate. Tell her to stop and don't feel like you have to explain why.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:56 PM
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turned to Jammies and I

Hypercorrection pet peeve!
[activates nosflow-signal]


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:59 PM
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You know, it could be worse. She could call her "li'l stealy", because she's jewish.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:59 PM
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"Thanks, Asshole. I call you 'asshole' because you're such an asshole."


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 3:59 PM
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Wow, I only ever lurk too but have to chime in that this is totally unacceptable. This definitely needs to be addressed with the teacher. You are not being hyper-sensitive, the teacher is being hyper-insensitive.


Posted by: lurkermama | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 4:00 PM
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Has anyone considered whether it might have been a misheard "Biggie" and the teacher is simply encouraging young HG to pursue a career as a hip-hop mogul?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 4:01 PM
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Ugh, as E.Messily can attest, I am learning the hard way that these weird things stick, even from a very young age. My 6yo Creature G is as skinny as a rail, and doesn't like to eat - in fact she's basically afraid of food that is not the blandest most familiar tasting and looking thing on the planet. And she talks about being afraid of getting fat. And some of that I'm sure is me calling her a skinny-mini, and bitching about my two baby'd waistline.
Point is: I agree with everybody above. Tell the teacher to stop. Gently but firmly. Now.


Posted by: Elizamuqin | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 4:02 PM
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This is also the kind of thing that should probably be mentioned to someone higher up. This kind of cluelessness really isn't appropriate. Mara's been pretending to be a monkey sometimes lately, but one of the reasons we'll soon be sending her to a preschool with a large black presence among classmates and teachers is that she won't have to worry about things like picking up Monkey as a pet name. Some things might be cute (she says, as a major childhood fan of pigs!) but that still doesn't make their use in a name appropriate,


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 4:56 PM
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I don't think this even comes close to an "I'm being hypersensitive" situation. Just ask the teacher to stop, in a friendly but firm tone. Unless the teacher is insane, she will.

R.H. wrote my response for me so I'll just as this: There are lots of things about modern parenting that seem super-silly-sensitive to me but this isn't one of them.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:00 PM
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Ugh, as E.Messily can attest

At first I thought this was about how "Specially Messily" was a childhood nickname, and it caused me to make messes as an adult and have internalized stress about mess-making.

Anyway yeah I agree that talking about little kids' (and particularly little girls') bodies/weights is a danger zone. Right, she doesn't care now, but nobody is going to be able to tell exactly when she starts processing that stuff, and pretty little kids can have some pretty fucked up body issues that last.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:16 PM
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Hey, Biohazard. How are you doing? Glad to see you.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:20 PM
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pretty little kids can have some pretty fucked up body issues that last

Ugly little kids, too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:31 PM
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The emotional weather is mostly sad and dreary with occasional gusts of rage at people who somehow annoy/frustrate/look funny/drive BMW 3 series. I'm being careful about the rage.

There are some moments of happy in there too, and they will increase in frequency. Donated blood at C-S today mainly 'cause the DE liked to perform random good deeds for no particular reason. That felt very good, someone for sure will need it during the holidays.

Thanks.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:41 PM
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Way out of line. I read the first paragraph to Rory, and she responded instantly "That's so mean!" I agree, tell her to stop and mention this to a higher up.

16: I've been calling Rory "Monkey" since forever...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:42 PM
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occasional gusts of rage at people who somehow [...[ drive BMW 3 series

One, Halford deserves it, and two I'm pretty sure it's a 5 series.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:45 PM
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There is a deep meaning behind my use of the occult [...[ symbol.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:45 PM
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Having just had a loooong meeting with the head teacher at PK's school about bullying, my take is that yes, you need to tell the teacher you don't like it, but that ideally you will also explain why and do a little consciousness-raising.

Because, here's the thing. Clearly the teacher doesn't think that she's doing anything wrong, and as your own initial uncertainty suggests, it's trickier than it might seem to articulate why it *is* wrong. She isn't being overtly sexist; she's saying it affectionately; she probably thinks it's cute that HP likes snack so much.

It's wrong, though, because "piggy" is a pejorative. Lots of adults (me included) use pejoratives affectionately with kids, which is probably kind of fucked up, but it's definitely the kind of thing that someone who is making a career (or job) out of caring for and teaching kids needs to not do, and needs to learn/internalize as Not Okay. It's going to be tough for this teacher to figure out why, say, little kids "teasing" each other is something she needs to forbid (because even friendly-intentioned teasing can be experienced as hurtful). And clearly on some level she thinks that there's something a little wrong (if adorable) about HP liking snack *quite* so much. Which is an attitude that is pretty appropriate, culturally speaking, but completely inappropriate from the pov of child development, healthy attitudes towards food, etc., and that she therefore needs to sort of think through and get past.

FWIW, since you're sort of asking for advice, I'd at least *try* to approach the issue in a friendly, "you know, this kind of bugged me the other day and it took me a while to figure out why" tone before invoking (if needed) the "no you will not do this to my kid. Period" approach.


Posted by: tedra | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:46 PM
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I rather enjoy comment 12.


Posted by: emdash | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:46 PM
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I called both Keegan and Cassidy "Hamhock" and "Porkchop" when they were fat little babies. Noah, however, was "Stringbean".


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:53 PM
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21: The emotional weather is mostly sad and dreary with occasional gusts of rage at people who somehow annoy/frustrate/look funny/drive BMW 3 series. I'm being careful about the rage.

This makes complete sense to me. Thanks for replying. For what it's worth, my email address is always linked here. Being able to say anything you want or need to say is incredibly important.

And it's always lovely to see you here, but I've said that before.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:58 PM
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One more vote (not that you needed it) for "That's weird of the teacher, and you should tell her to stop it." I do agree with Tedra that being warm and fuzzy about the "quit it" message is probably the most productive way to go about it, but she needs to quit it.

And while she's probably too young to get a negative message that will stick at two, I don't think she's necessarily much too young. They're little sponges for picking up social norms really early: this is when they start identifying gender roles.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 5:59 PM
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Maybe you should ask the daycare provider if she learned anything about calling people "piggy" by reading my book, Lord of the Flies?

Then again, maybe she identified with the bullies.

[breaking character - wtf is she thinking?]


Posted by: W. Golding | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:05 PM
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I honestly thought that it said Piggly, Piggly which made me think of pig tails or piglet. I sort of thought that she was making a comment about HP being shy or something. And maybe she was pigeon-holing her temperamentally and doing all kinds of damage.

I think my brain couldn't acknowledge that what you were reporting was possible.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:11 PM
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LB, it's not wrong for white kids and I've used it a lot in the past in that context, but there are a lot of black adults and particularly transracial adoptees I've read who felt it's dehumanizing and draws on a tradition of monkey/blackface images being indistinguishable. Because people use it in a racist way, it's off-limits for non-racist usage too.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:13 PM
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32: That was Di, not me. We had a teacher in NY lose her job (I think? she was disciplined anyway) not too long ago for nicknaming a black kid "Monkey". And you know, even if she didn't mean it in a racist way, which is possible, I suppose, that level of cluelessness seems like enough to appropriately be told that she can't teach that age group any more.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:24 PM
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27: But calling somebody else's kid "Piggy" is weird, even though I can see it being intended affectionately.

Because people use it in a racist way, it's off-limits for non-racist usage too.

Sorry, but I can't accept this. Racists don't get to control the language for everybody else and especially not for me. My kids get called monkeys all the time because monkeys are awesome.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:27 PM
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Apo, I think what Thorn meant is that it's off-limits to call black kids "monkey," racist or no. Took me a minute, too.


Posted by: tedra | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:31 PM
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I had somehow managed to skip over 16 when I wrote 34. I understand your context.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:32 PM
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Monkeypwned!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:33 PM
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27.1: Also, calling your kid "Porkchop" is about how they're as delicious as food, not about how greedy they are. Still something I'd save for my own kid, not someone else's, but totally different than "Piggy".

27.2: Would you believe that it's a really bad idea if there's any possible ambiguity at all about whether it's racist, such that someone would need to be relying on your good faith to know that it's not? Like, Buck's a hair-rumpler with little kids, and I've mentioned to him that it's probably not a good idea for him to be rumpling the hair of Newt's biracial friend who lives downstairs --if he wants to be affectionate with Sean, a shoulder pat or quick hug doesn't have the bad visual effect of a white guy rubbing a black kid's head. Absolutely no harm meant from Buck, but no harm meant doesn't mean people don't see the negative history of the gesture; it's a better idea to avoid it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:36 PM
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38 rendered pointless by 35 and 36.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:37 PM
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Sorry for writing unclearly. I'm taking advantage of not being the primary parent tonight to take some Nyquil and generally be dopey and out of it. Good times, but at least it's cutting the sinus pain until I can finally see the doctor tomorrow.

And hey, sometime I'll start commenting about things unrelated to being a new mom! That time is probably not tonight, though.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:42 PM
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calling your kid "Porkchop" is [...] totally different than "Piggy".

I learned the craziest thing about pork chops the other day.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:43 PM
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From wikipedia entry on Howard Cosell:

During a Monday Night Football telecast on September 5, 1983, Cosell said of Washington Redskins wide receiver Alvin Garrett, "That little monkey gets loose, doesn't he?" The Rev. Joseph Lowery, then-president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, denounced Cosell's comment as racist and demanded a public apology, but Cosell refused, citing his past support for black athletes and stating that "little monkey" was an affectionate term he had used in the past for white athletes (including Mike Adamle), as well as for his own grandson


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:43 PM
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I do agree with Tedra that being warm and fuzzy about the "quit it" message is probably the most productive way to go about it

True, but being righteously angry about it may be more satisfying. For good measure, you could tell the teacher that your family keeps kosher, and now you know why she won't eat anything at home.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 6:53 PM
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Mommy's little piggy. Not the high point of the movie.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 7:01 PM
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Kind of an amazing edit, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 7:08 PM
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Readers of 27 should recall that apo does this to all babies.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 7:21 PM
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I remember some girls I knew in elementary school talking about how they try not to eat because it's so embarrassing when their parents remind them how as babies they were "thunder thighs" or "fatty." I'm not sure it's super-damaging coming from a part-time caregiver who won't be bringing it up with them for the rest of their lives, but still worth talking to them about.

There's a similar story about me as a baby, but it's actually sort of disturbing so I've deleted it.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 7:30 PM
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True story: my mom *still* calls me "little monkey" except, she does so in Spanish, so it's doubly racist.

(Actually, it's a play on a Spanish version of my real name, but where's the fun in that?)


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 7:41 PM
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HG, you should go nuclear. the one where I'm being the annoying sensitive parent is where I am going to complain about how in my 1st-grader's class christmas thing all the boys had cool cardboard guitars while the little girls ran to the front of the stage to sing and play tambourines. would it kill them to mix the kids up? or even consign the girls to the ghetto of playing bass, just for a marginal step forward? my daughter said she wanted to play drums but they couldn't figure out how to make a drum kit out of cardboard, which, did anyone ask me to help? I could make a fucking amazing drum kit out of cardboard. we could use shallo cones of card stock for the high-hat! but, more basically, it was sexist. HG's thing in the op was insane and deserves HULK SMASH!!!!


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 8:45 PM
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Readers of 27 should recall that apo does this to all babies.

Y'know, Porkchop just didn't work for Noah. Too skinny right from the get go. If anything, he would have been Jerky.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:24 PM
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I would have said "you're kind of a prick1" with exactly the same facial expression she used

mirrors are a bitch


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:31 PM
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although, i like the idea of non-superlove for kids. i am reacting to not being smacked around enough as a kid.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:32 PM
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people take nyquil other than to trip balls?


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:32 PM
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54

Is this sort of thing actually legal?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:36 PM
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cold: another thing amphetimes are awesome for.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:37 PM
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I would have said "you're kind of a prick1" with exactly the same facial expression she used

When ranking strategies by advisability, insulting your childcare provider is in a cohort with insulting your food preparer and insulting the cop who just pulled you over.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:37 PM
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cold: another thing amphetimes are awesome for.

There's no times like amphetimes.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:45 PM
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||
But how can I be sure I won't suddenly want to re-read Intellectual Foundations of the Nicaraguan Revolution or The Economics of Feasible Socialism? What if this really is the year I get around to reading that second-rate biography of Emma Goldman I picked up because it was only a dollar? And doesn't every household need a copy of both the Federalist Papers and Feuerbach's Theses on Christianity?

I'm culling my bookshelves, in case you couldn't tell, and it's freaking me out a little. Thanks for your support.
|>


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:50 PM
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57: It was the meths of times, it was the worst of times.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:50 PM
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There's no bein' like amphibian.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:50 PM
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"There's no Brock": like, amphibrach?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:51 PM
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12:

My sister tells of a college orientation in which they were taught non-violent communication of the form "When you......I feel like.......because.......". Before long, someone broke out with "When you act like an asshole, I feel like you're an asshole, because you're an asshole".


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:54 PM
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58: I did some of this about a year ago, and I made progress by ditching anything that

i) I could find in any reasonably good library and
ii) I would almost certainly never need RIGHT NOW.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 9:56 PM
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63: But what if there's a nuclear holocaust and all the libraries are destroyed? I might have the very last copy of the 1979 edition of The Constitutional Rights of Women. You've got to plan ahead for these things.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 10:01 PM
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64: Oh, right. You're under the dirt-covered door in your backyard in that scenario.

Wait: solution! Bury all your books under a dirt-covered door in your backyard.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 10:03 PM
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"When ranking strategies by advisability, insulting your childcare provider is in a cohort with insulting your food preparer and insulting the cop who just pulled you over."

I';m not suggesting INSULTING.

That would imply a certain sort of smug status seeking vibe.

Try it again, but with more innocence.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 10:09 PM
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64: Ahhhh, but then you'd be in greater danger from the inevitable anti-intellectual backlash! At least, that's what I gleaned from reading A Canticle For Leibowitz.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 10:11 PM
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Damn, good point. I'll ditch everything I've got and lay in a supply of Peter Benchley novels just in case.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 10:18 PM
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Maybe my question in 54 requires more nuance. Presumably, BoA, MasterCard, and their like have had lawyers certify these decisions. Is this further evidence that inconsistent enforcement and complex user agreements essentially mean there is no rule of law?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 10:30 PM
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sir kraab, you must follow my motto: when in doubt, throw it out NEVER GET RID OF ANY BOOK EVAR EVEN IF YOU FOUND IT ON THE GROUND AT THE BUS STOP SO IT'S MILDEWY AND IT WASN'T GOOD!!1111!


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-17-10 11:16 PM
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Sir Kraab, why are you throwing out books unless you're moving into a smaller place? There is no other plausible reason, and even that one is dubious. Just put up more shelves. Also, all those books sound at least mildly indispensable.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 12:02 AM
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I endorse the general sentiment of 49. Being the parent of a daughter makes me want to punch the world in the head.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 12:22 AM
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The key to throwing out books is to plan ahead and know how to play defense. Buy lots of thick, quickly out-of-date computer books. Then when you get rid of 300 pounds of books, you feel so virtuous that you can keep all of the other books. When I got rid of Enterprise JavaBeans, it meant my copy of Theses on Christianity was safe.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 12:32 AM
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I'm culling my bookshelves, in case you couldn't tell, and it's freaking me out a little. Thanks for your support.

Here's another strategy for assuaging anxiety: give away the books you can DL on gigapedia. Knowing you've got the thing on PDF, and could print it out if nuclear tensions start ramping up, may help put your mind at ease. (FWIW: Feuerbach.)


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 2:05 AM
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And doesn't every household need a copy of both the Federalist Papers and Feuerbach's Theses on Christianity?

Yes, ideally. However the Nicaraguan revolution went to hell in a handcart some years ago, and if you get rid of the second rate biog of Goldman you'll have room for a first rate one.

I must do this, soon.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 4:00 AM
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A bit late, but I think I'm with Tedra on this one (the teacher). Not least because then you still have the nukes in reserve if the civil approach doesn't work.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 4:01 AM
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Yep, nicknames shouldn't be used in school. Worst of all is a teacher who uses nicknames; it validates something that should be strongly discouraged instead.

Of the weird nicknames I endured, the strangest was 'Chambers'. This was first given me by an elderly snobbish history master. In fact he refused to use either my family name or my given name. I quickly came to hate him, his class, and the subject. In retrospect, I think he was making a clever reference to Whitaker Chambers, someone I hadn't heard of at the time.


Posted by: Charlie | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 6:01 AM
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My sixth grade teacher called me Ralph sometimes, but I think that was just her forgetting my name.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 6:31 AM
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I'm down with LB in saying that although she doesn't notice/won't remember right now, little HaPu isn't very far off from noticing and being affected by this sort of thing. Clearly the behavior is marked to the teacher and deserving of a nickname only because she's a little girl. It reminds me of nothing so much as when we'd have pizza, or birthday cake, or bagels in back at my old office job. The women would all have sooner starved to death and died than to have a taken the first piece of anything or -- and this one was really written in stone -- taken seconds. And, strangely, this behavior seemed to be tied to notions not of weight or body shape or fat shaming, but some sort of grand narrative of How Women Should Eat. It was nuts.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 6:49 AM
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My high school Russian teacher called me, more or less exclusively, "tsiganichka" -- little gypsy girl. I dressed like a freak in high school.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 6:51 AM
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when I was in high school my step-father always told me I looked like "a mexican whore on a holiday." then again, he wasn't a very nice person.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 6:58 AM
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81: You wore Talbots in high school?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 7:25 AM
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||
Time-sensitive ATM: Apparently a squirrel or rat or something has fallen down the central stack/sewer vent, and is scrabbling. Any thoughts on what to do?
||>


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 7:41 AM
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83: Go out for breakfast (and lunch and dinner).


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 7:44 AM
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85

And put the lids down on the toilets with something heavy on top.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 7:45 AM
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86

Scrabbling? Go for the double and triple word scores. That's the key to winning.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 7:46 AM
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I already don't like this teacher. She tosses out stupid threats really casually, like "If you don't stop crying, it will be your fault when Georgie starts crying...there he goes! Your fault!" Or "If you don't get quiet, no pacifier during naptime!" She's mostly very young and unthinking, I think.

Also she routinely does Hawaii's hair in the tightest pair of ponytails imaginable. They hurt to look at. With perfectly square parts. And she uses several rubber bands to secure each one, and - we think - styling product possibly, because the hair stays sleek in the actual ponytail. Often we can't get them out at night, and so she sleeps in them and we just send her in the next day, and they still don't look messy.

So we can't figure out how she accomplishes this without Hawaii screaming bloody murder. Is Hawaii infatuated with her? Or does she just subject Hawaii to this hair process, and listen to her scream bloody murder?

One telling thing: at the Christmas party, she did Hawaii's hair, and for the first time ever she did a quick, sloppy ponytail intead of the brain breaking normal ones. I wondered if it was because we were present.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 7:47 AM
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I don't know about pony tails, but don't see how a squirrel (which it probably is if you have big trees near your house) could be rescued from the sewer vent without flooding your basement with sewage and causing thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars worth of damage. I suppose you could get some cord and go up on the roof and lower it down the stack.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 7:50 AM
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89

87 to 83?

Anyhow, the best answer I found on the internet seems to be auguring out the drain. Which would bring a swift and bloody end to Mr. Nutkin, but sounds like the only way. I mean, if it were a rat, I could see it swimming as far as the basement floor drain, which would be a pretty easy out, but I'm doubtful a squirrel could get there.

Might have to call the emergency plumber, which would totally suck, as he gets $350 for opening the door of his goddamn truck. Grrr.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 7:54 AM
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If you do lower a rope for him, toss down a small bullwhip and a fedora. He'll need something to restore his sense of confidence.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 7:54 AM
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Call in a team of expert Chilean squirrels.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 7:56 AM
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I don't see how a squirrel could block a whole sewer pipe. As long as water can get by, you should be O.K. Maybe take your craps at the office until decomposition has had some time.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:04 AM
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[Note: I'm gonna use female pronouns to refer to HP's daycare teacher, but only because I went ahead and made that gendered assumption and only realized I'd done so as I was about to post, and now I'm too lazy to changed it, but yes I know it's wrong etc. Whatever. Odds are.]

I only got part way through the thread before a) I have to run in like five minutes, and b) I have to freaking comment that:

So far the only thing that's come remotely close to what I would consider an appropriate response is 12. Closer still would be if you followed 12 up with "AND IF YOU DO IT AGAIN I WILL EAT YOUR MOTHERFUCKING SOUL" while your pupils constricted to pinpoints, your veins pulsed, and your skin began to turn green.

Seriously, though. This woman works in childcare? The fuck? Your kid spends a lot of time with her, and (obviously you're aware of this) whether you like it or not, is gonna learn a lot from her and from the other kids she's responsible for, who presumably have learned it's ok to call your kid piggy. At snack time. Your kid who's a girl.

My humble opinion: put the fear of God into this woman. Or something worse. If she's dumb enough to do this - and really, this is stunningly stupid - I have to imagine she's dumb enough to do other things that are equally awful and potentially damaging to your child. Your kid seems young enough that she doesn't have the capacity to mentally and emotionally defend herself against this kind of shit. I know that time eventually arrives, but dude.

Fear. Of. God. Seems the best way to ensure this idiot thinks twice about how she treats your kid. I'm aware that this is probs a minority / extreme opinion, but, like parsimon, it's not even my kid and I immediately saw read (read: looked around for something to hit). I think this is because daycare is like...young, young kids are pretty much defenseless sponges. I assume you have to accept that there's gonna be some crap you can't do anything about - mean kids, etc. - but this is totally unnecessary and egregious and, if it sticks, harmful in ways that, for the most part, can't be undone. The very least you expect from the people who take care of kids is that they won't unnecessarily fuck up them up beyond what the rest of the world is gonna do anyway. And this is just so, so obviously a not ok thing to do.

I'm sure she's a very nice lady, or you wouldn't leave your child with her. But goddamn that is stupid. Stupid doesn't necessarily react to reason (seriously, kind of stunned that she couldn't figure out that this unacceptable), but it definitely reacts to fear.

Opinion offered with the rather obvious caveat that I do not have any children. And, just as obviously, wouldn't have to deal with the daycare people after I'd threatened to eat their souls.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:19 AM
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Whoops. Just read 87.

My new advice is to just go ahead and eat her soul.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:23 AM
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94.2 to 83.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:37 AM
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|| The Senate is very close to voting on DADT cloture. They're voting on the DREAM act right now. |>


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:44 AM
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The caretaker's behavior in the OP is out of bounds. But the behavior in 87 scares me. Maybe s/he's the person who is teaching the fly phobia too? Three in one blow!


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:50 AM
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Not sure I get the ponytail thing. Why is this person regularly dressing your kid's hair? (not that I see anything wrong with it in the abstract, just never had that happen in day care or ps). Anyhow, it sounds like this teacher just kinda desnt know what she's doing, and could use a firm but friendly talk.

I will say that IME it's remarkable how compliant toddlers can be with folks who aren't their parents, so absent other evidence I wouldn't assume that hair torture is going on.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:50 AM
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89: I wouldn't call the emergency plumber if the rodent is still kicking. Anybody with enough nerve to charge $350 for just a call will have enough nerve to say "We don't deal with live animals" and run with the money.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:51 AM
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The vile Mr. McCain just proudly did his thumbs down for the DREAM. Christ, what an asshole.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:52 AM
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Oh, and Tweety you bastard, I have never driven a 3 or a 5 series. Just the objectively even more despicable Z-3! Now I drive American. BH, good to hear from you -- was at Cedars recently and thought of you guys.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:54 AM
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100: He really came across as a sad old fool in his anti-DADT natterings a few minutes ago.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:55 AM
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just never had that happen in day care
You probably didn't have pigtails, Halford.
I'm inclined to say HG should trust her reaction to this woman, but I don't know what she should do beyond that.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:58 AM
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87.1 reminds me (in tone, anyway) of Rory's stepmom. I do think that it's a question of inexperience/insecurity. That is, she has an image of Stern Authority Figure that she thinks she (and perhaps HaPu's teacher, too?) needs to live up to in order to prove herself a Qualified Parental-like Person. Last week, UNG actually forbade her from coming to Rory's concert because *UNG* thought she was over-the-line in her lecturing/chastising/reprimanding of Rory for a lost house key. Like, as in, she reportedly spent 45 minutes lecturing Rory on the reasons house keys are important. I haven't quite resolved in my mind if this is a learning-curve thing, or just a fundamental and likely unchangeable parenting philosophy thing.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:58 AM
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Like, as in, she reportedly spent 45 minutes lecturing Rory on the reasons house keys are important.

How many different ways can you say, "They let you open the door without breaking it?"


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:00 AM
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Turns out it was in the boiler vent pipe instead of the sewage vent, so, on the advice of my plumber, I just turned the heat up until it asphyxiated, and we'll set up something next week for one of his guys to come and remove it. Sigh.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:01 AM
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98: I kind of feel like the hair torture thing is worse if HP is just sitting their enduring discomfort because she feels like she can't complain.

More importantly, the fact that the caretaker didn't do the terrifying sounding OCD Stepford ponytails while HB and Jammies were present indicates that she knows they wouldn't approve of HP's reaction and / or the general process. That alone is reason to be concerned. Like, fairly worrisome.

Honestly, the caretaker lady in 87, combined with the OP, is pretty scary. She may not have a soul to eat.

96: I so very much want to be happy about this, and yet I can't escape the feeling that they'll find a way to screw us / everything.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:01 AM
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WTF with all my spelling / brainfart typos. Sorry, people, it's been an unideal week, so not a lot of sleep involved.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:04 AM
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106: "Some like it hot, so let's turn up the heat til he fries."


Posted by: Opinionated Robert Palmer | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:04 AM
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Bah. DREAM Act fails: 55-41. Wholly expected, yet it remains undemocratic and gross.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:07 AM
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DREAM defeated. Which might as well be the slogan for the US government these days.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:08 AM
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105: They let you open doors and you can't unlock doors without them and if the door is locked and you don't have them you could freeze to death and if you can't find your keys and we have to leave the door unlocked so you can get in then people will break into our house and steal all our things and eat our cats and it's important to have good organizational habits so you can find things because if you aren't organized you won't be able to find things and if you are disorganized and can't find things then you are a bad person and that is why you won't get X, Y, or Z for Christmas because you just are not responsible enough to get X, Y, or Z.

Rinse, repeat. Intersperse some yelling back by Rory along the lines of I know, I just couldn't find them this morning, I will look when I get back to Mama's house. Or something.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:08 AM
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DREAM fails 55-41. I love my government.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:08 AM
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pwdemia pwned.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:09 AM
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John McCain is gonna cry because of the homos "costing Marines lives." WE HAVE MARINES WITH NO LEGS.*

*A quote.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:10 AM
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It seems like every month or so Republicans find a new way to show me how to hate them.

So very helpful.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:11 AM
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So, um, apparently we got cloture on DADT? 63 ayes.

There is still a way they can ruin this, right?


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:23 AM
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63 radical US Senators make the baby Jesus cry.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:24 AM
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63 is more than they thought, no? I guess there were some bandwaggoners.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:24 AM
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I'm slow.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:24 AM
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Some Republicans were closet supporters? Huh. Go figure.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:30 AM
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Brown (MA), Collins (ME), Kirk (IL), Snowe (ME), and Voinovich (OH) on the Repub side. Not sure on Manchin. Nelson of Neb was a yes as I recall, forget if he was in doubt.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:38 AM
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The teacher's demeanor is of a happy-go-lucky 23 year old. She's not on an authority trip - she goofs around with the kids and is generally pretty light in tone with all these things. Although she will carry out the threats, just not out of anger. It seems more like, "This is how I was raised, so this is the type of thing it occurs to me to say."

For the hair thing, it may be cultural. All the teachers we've had, in the baby room or this room, all do Hawaii's hair if we don't, or if it gets messy. They're all Latina women. This one is the only one who does them OCD tight, but I've certainly seen plenty of Latina little girls with achingly tight ponytails.

Besides talking to this teacher, I'm reluctant to take her out of the class, because it would mean switching daycares, and she's on a waitlist for a really great daycare, and I don't want her to have to switch schools twice in close succession, if she got in to the great one.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:39 AM
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I think Kirk and Voinovich were the unexpected, "fuck it; it's gonna pass anyway" votes.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:39 AM
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I'm pretty disappointed in Tester, for voting against DREAM. He's probably right about the politics -- 2012 is going to be a tough reelection fight.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:40 AM
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After his pointedly irrelevant opening speech about MARINES WITH NO LEGS, I have decided that if any veteran deserves to be spat upon, it's definitely McCain.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:42 AM
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||
CC, I watched some of the replay of Eastern Washington/Villanova on the red field and it was actually much easier on the eyes than the Boise State one. But they still needed to be beaten on it for even having the idea of going with it.
|>


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:44 AM
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127 -- They're 8-0 on that field. God help us all if people start drawing conclusions from that.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:49 AM
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125, 124 -- I suspect that the fact that his vote would not have helped was a factor.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:01 AM
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128: And Boise State is on a 62-game winning streak on theirs.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:08 AM
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101: Near as I can tell, 3 series BMWs are often owned by young, aggressive males and some females who assume the geezers & crones will get out of their way.

I've been there and done that so I haven't been maiming them when I've had the chance but the urge is there.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:15 AM
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DADT vote at 3.

Celebrate at 4:30 EDT by watching the Fighting Saints from Carroll College play in the NAIA national championship game. They're playing Sioux Falls -- a rematch of the 2007 final -- and either Carroll or SF has won the title for the last 8 years.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:16 AM
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I've been to Sioux Falls. Or maybe I'm confused with Yankton. Anyway, a couple of the people from my high school class now live in Sioux Falls, so I can now put something on their Facebook and they'll think I'm hyper-aware.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:39 AM
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Walt read my mind in 72.

Speaking of people who are bad with kids, here's a unique little holiday game from local news.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50900440-76/child-offender-rope-sex.html.csp

A probable cause statement alleges that Little acknowledged luring children with what he allegedly called "the fishing game" -- dangling a rope from the front of his house into his garage. A note was attached stating that yanking on the rope would bring a prize. ABC-4 News reported that the other end of the rope, according to police, was tied to Little's genitals.

Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:41 AM
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Is there any way to find out how close you are to the top of the waitlist at HeebieU daycare? I completely understand your reluctance to switch and then switch. But boy, I want you to be able to give these guys the boot!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:45 AM
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It seems more like, "This is how I was raised, so this is the type of thing it occurs to me to say."

Yeah, I think* this is basically what I meant -- "I think this is what a person in my position is supposed to do/say." Not so much power trip as misguided beliefs about what's appropriate. In which case, Tedra's suggestion is likely to be a good approach. "So, we were reading in this child development book/article about body image... "

* I'm not feeling especially coherent/articulate this morning, but (despite the fact that I think the stepmom is truly evil) I didn't mean it to sound like a vindictive thing. Just well-intentioned stupidity.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:49 AM
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134: sounds like a good way to get a squirrel out of a boiler pipe.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:50 AM
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134: sounds like a good way to get a squirrel out of a boiler pipe.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:50 AM
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Having just had a loooong meeting with the head teacher at PK's school about bullying

What, just because PK has long girly hair he thought he could get away with giving other kids swirlies? Shame on him.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:52 AM
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Just got around to reading the middle of the thread. Pwned by alameida (again! always with that!), Walt, etc.

I guess my feelings are also a general territorial sort of thing: if anyone's gonna fuck up my kid, it's going to be me, damn it. And yeah, daycare lady can be well intentioned and awful at the same time (dealing with similar cognitive dissonance in my own life at the moment), but, really, once we get to the awful effects part, does it matter if the intentions are probably good?

Also, hi Biohazard. Good to see you back-ish and well-ish. You may have to check with gswift, but my own feeling is that some light maiming of BMW drivers can't possibly be very illegal.


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 11:03 AM
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This may be premature, but I'll take that chance, and apologize to the Republican senators I accused of just pretending to support the repeal of DADT.

And a special thank you to George Voinovich who I've accused many times of merely putting on a show of being independent while in the end always voting with his party. This may have been your last chance to prove me wrong, and you did, George! Thank you!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 11:51 AM
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I love kids.


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 1:06 PM
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Well, turns out it was a bird after all. The cat fished it out somehow. I hope she got to eat the good parts before it was taken away. Maybe she will start burping little feathers! That would be so cute.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 4:11 PM
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143: Don't forget to contact your local CBC chapter so they add -1 to the total.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 4:14 PM
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Way to carry a theme.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 4:19 PM
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"Here, let me help you, Piggy-piggy." Then the teacher turned to Jammies and I and said brightly, "I call her 'Piggy' because she's always first for snack and lunchtime!"

Holy crap! Totally unacceptable, and way out of line. My first reaction: You should make a lot of noise over this one. But on skimming the comments, I agree with tedra in 25.

It occurs to me that there are a lot of vestigial nicknames and diminutives for babies, toddlers and small children which have to do with eating and fat, and which sort of predate the days of plenty, and which maybe carried no negative or pejorative connotations back in the day when people still had a real memory of scarcity. I don't mean "fatso," of course, but terms like "dumpling," "chubby cheeks, "butterball," etc. These were once not only affectionate but also positive in connotation, since they indicated a baby/child who was well fed (and therefore healthy).

But that's not to defend HP's teacher, who needs to stop using terms like Piggy-piggy. Just to suggest (as per 25) that she may not realize there's anything wrong with the term, which is why an initially low-key friendly approach might be best.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 8:08 PM
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My brother-in-law, who's Japanese, calls my somewhat curvy sister "kobuta" (piglet). She calls him "kozaru" (baby monkey). He didn't even know about the racist legacy of dehumanizing Japanese people with simian imagery. I felt kind of bad telling him.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 9:59 PM
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It's just as much pleasure to burn them as drown them.


Posted by: Bull Halsey | Link to this comment | 12-18-10 10:08 PM
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Some people just don't get the intellectual aspect of strategy,


Posted by: Opinionated Raymond "Electric Brain" Spruance | Link to this comment | 12-19-10 5:13 AM
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Until I read this thread, I had always thought it was a donut joke.


Posted by: Jelly Roll Morton | Link to this comment | 12-19-10 9:25 AM
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It occurs to me that there are a lot of vestigial nicknames and diminutives for babies, toddlers and small children which have to do with eating and fat, and which sort of predate the days of plenty, and which maybe carried no negative or pejorative connotations back in the day when people still had a real memory of scarcity

Or possibly because fat babies are cute?


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 1:38 AM
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I have insomnia because I'm nervous about talking to this teacher in the morning. Whenever I run through the conversation in my mind, it seems like she can disregard it as soon as I leave, and the takeaway message might be "don't do this around parents."

I kind of want to inform the administration about the incident, so that they'll be extra people aware of it, since I can't moniter the situation. But in general, I believe in limiting discussions like this to the person you have a problem with, since you're both adults, and giving the other person a chance to fix the situation before you pull in an authority figure. I'm just so uneasy because I'd never know if she ignores me.

Is it appropriate to talk w the teacher and also mention it to the administration?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 3:57 AM
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151: and we think this, probably, for reasons "which sort of predate the days of plenty, and which maybe carried no negative or pejorative connotations back in the day when people still had a real memory of scarcity".

He didn't even know about the racist legacy of dehumanizing Japanese people with simian imagery.

He probably knew about the racist legacy of dehumanizing non-Japanese people with simian imagery, though. Both sides were calling their enemies "apes" back then.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 4:03 AM
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I don't think that the evolutionary-biology explanation of fat babies being cute really has much at all to do with scarcity or to do with fat babies being well-fed (I don't think there's even all that much correlation). To me it seems more like a spandrel; all babies are born with fat deposits in their cheeks and thighs, so they look chubby, and so a particularly chubby baby looks exaggeratedly baby-like. It's an optical trick of an exaggerated characteristic, rather like women with big tits (big breasts look like they might be better for breast-feeding but in fact are no different).


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 4:54 AM
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Is it appropriate to talk w the teacher and also mention it to the administration?

Your call, but I really wouldn't bother. Unless she's profoundly thick, she'll be the one having sleepless nights tomorrow in any case.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 4:56 AM
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152.1: I think I have an enforcement solution for you.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 5:19 AM
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I chickened out. I talked to the teacher, but I didn't raise her consciousness or reign big wrath over her shoulders. Instead we did the meek dance where both parties try to comfort each other out of the awkwardness of the conversation. I think I ended every sentence with a question mark. Officially the only reason I gave is "It bothers me?"


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:14 AM
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Criticism like that sounds much harsher to the recipient than to the deliverer: if you conveyed what it is that you want her to stop, that's not chickening out. (This doesn't mean that she'll necessarily quit it immediately, but saying it at all will have had an effect.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:19 AM
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Honestly, that's the best approach. Raining righteous fury down on a young, underpaid, well-intentioned-but-clueless day care worker wasn't going to be in anybody's interests.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:20 AM
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Did she set you any homework?

in all seriousness, that's probably the best outcome.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:25 AM
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I don't think that the evolutionary-biology explanation of fat babies being cute really has much at all to do with scarcity or to do with fat babies being well-fed (I don't think there's even all that much correlation).

I think the evo-biology explanation of fat = cute does have to do with scarcity, but just to be clear: I wasn't making an evo-biological argument at all. I was thinking of very recent history, actually, and of ads (for tonics, milk products, and etc) from the 1910s, 20s, and 30s, which suggest that plumpness is a sign of health not only in an infant but also in a toddler or young child. Yes, fat babies are cute, but nowadays some people (swipple people, I mean) will even worry about chubbiness in babies (is he too fat? should I switch my toddler to skim milk?).

157: That doesn't sound like chickening out. You raised the issue, and without being confrontational, which is good.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:04 PM
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from the 1910s, 20s, and 30s, which suggest that plumpness is a sign of health not only in an infant but also in a toddler or young child.

A somewhat older age, but when I recently saw this vintage picture of boys swimming from 1910 on Shorpy your comment came to mind.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:14 PM
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Who knew they had 404 errors back in 1910.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:23 PM
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Hmm. Works for me, try this.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:25 PM
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163: copy and paste the link (or just highlight it in the address bar and hit return) and it'll work. They're trying to block direct linking.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:26 PM
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The second link worked fine.

Anyway, we switched our toddler to skim milk pretty early because the pediatrician said he was too heavy. We waited until his growing brain had sucked-up enough fat to develop into the world's finest machine for uttering "No" and switched to skim.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:30 PM
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the pediatrician said he was too heavy

Maybe the pediatrician should start lifting weights.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:34 PM
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Maybe the pediatrician was girl, sexist.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:35 PM
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He looked like a man, but I didn't want to pry.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:40 PM
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the world's finest machine for uttering "No"

Preparing to beat your record. Our machine has hand gestures with frantic pointing as she goes "No no no no NO NO NO!"

On infinite loop.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 7:57 PM
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Heebie, yay for the whole thing being over with (fingers crossed), and to your apparent satisfaction, without any collateral damage.

What is it abt the obsession with "no"? Is it just the first thing we can say that produces an immediate reaction that confirms our agency? It's like the original existential assertion? Just w more enthusiasm?

(There's a super famous philosopher logician I want to reference here, and my brain simply refuses to give it up. Tracitus logicus, or some latin thing, which I actually *own*, half written while serving in world war I. Then an equally famous british logician (who's name I also can't remember! What the hell! B something) championed the young man, before having his (B's) most cherished beliefs completely trashed by Godel and his incompleteness theorems. Awesome.)


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:09 PM
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Heebie, yay for the whole thing being over with (fingers crossed), and to your apparent satisfaction, without any collateral damage.

What is it abt the obsession with "no"? Is it just the first thing we can say that produces an immediate reaction that confirms our agency? It's like the original existential assertion? Just w more enthusiasm?

(There's a super famous philosopher logician I want to reference here, and my brain simply refuses to give it up. Tracitus logicus, or some latin thing, which I actually *own*, half written while serving in world war I. Then an equally famous british logician (who's name I also can't remember! What the hell! B something) championed the young man, before having his (B's) most cherished beliefs completely trashed by Godel and his incompleteness theorems. Awesome.)


Posted by: donaquixote | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:09 PM
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171.2: Toddlers do nothing but eat, sleep, and learn to put their parents' buttons. I guess they spent a little bit of time trying use their fingers more effectively or something, but those are just hobbies.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:17 PM
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s/b "learn to push their parent's buttons."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:18 PM
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You guys sure are smart!


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:30 PM
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Maybe the pediatrician was girl, sexist.

Oh. I meant that the baby wouldn't seem so heavy to the doctor after some weight training. But your version of me making a different dumb joke works, too, I guess.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:44 PM
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¡Chalupa grande el fuego burrito!


Posted by: Pauly Shore | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:45 PM
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171: are you thinking of Bertrand Russell?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:47 PM
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172: are you thinking of Alfred North Whitehead?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:48 PM
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178: I always wonder why he got to marry Katy Perry.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:53 PM
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Brand preference.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 8:56 PM
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(There's a super famous philosopher logician I want to reference here, and my brain simply refuses to give it up.

Wittgenstein.

Tracitus logicus, or some latin thing, which I actually *own*, half written while serving in world war I.

Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus.

Then an equally famous british logician (who's name I also can't remember! What the hell! B something) championed the young man

Bertrand Russell.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 9:00 PM
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Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus.

Worst Transformer ever.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 9:09 PM
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What about that sounds like a Transformer?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 9:19 PM
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There's an "us" in both Tractatus and Optimus.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 9:39 PM
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Tractatumblebee Logiwheeljack-Philostarscream.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 9:44 PM
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Should I stay up for the eclipse? It's a clear night here.


Posted by: ari | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 9:54 PM
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We just had a good view of the moon, but now it's overcast again. Fucking Pacific Northwest. If you haven't seen a total lunar eclipse before, ari, you should stay up. It won't match the last one I saw, in not coinciding with the Red Sox winning the World Series for the first time in 86 years, but it'll still be worth watching, I'm sure.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 10:00 PM
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You can see an Eclipse at any respectable Mitsubishi dealer. They're nothing special, really.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-20-10 10:03 PM
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Chiming in on a deadish thread to say that we had our preschool/daycare orientation with Mara yesterday. (It's an all-day daycare at the community college where Lee teaches, but they do Head Start stuff and will also maybe be able to have someone come in for her speech therapy so we don't have to drive her there, which will be good.) She's by far the largest of the 10 kids in her class, but nine of them and the teacher and teacher's aide appear to be black. I think it's going to be a very good fit for her and I like the teacher a lot. She goes back for a partial day tomorrow to meet people and then will start for real after the holiday break.

I'm not sure I actually want to start this kind of talk because anytime anyone asks how much things cost, it leads to madness, however the state will pay $21/day for daycare (or preschool) for a child in foster care, which is about a dollar less than we get as foster parents. Mara's class is more like $31/day and for most of the parents (CC students rather than faculty) this is subsidized at least in part by vouchers from various places. I'd think that $31 for what can be up to 10.5 hours of care by people with lots of training and certification is ridiculously low, but I haven't looked into pricing other places.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-22-10 11:03 AM
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for her speech therapy

Is she actually delayed? What you've said about her on your blog makes her sound like she's in the zone for just-turned-three. Not that therapy will do any harm, of course.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-22-10 11:46 AM
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nine of them and the teacher and teacher's aide appear to be black.

I'm having a hard time parsing this bit. Is it just odd phrasing?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-22-10 11:48 AM
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I can't resist posting this reënactment of the Nativity story by a bunch of kids in New Zealand in the child thread. It's so freaking cute I could just punch somebody.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-22-10 12:00 PM
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191: I think she's probably in the low-average range for speech, but two weeks before she came to us she tested in the 8th percentile. I think she was probably better even then, but I do think she'll benefit from more therapy now.

But even if we thought she didn't need it, because she's in foster care and has an officially designated special need in her speech delay, I think it's our responsibility to get her the treatment her social worker or evaluator recommended. If we didn't, we'd be negligent. (Though they probably wouldn't care if we skipped the psych bit, since her previous foster family did.)

192: I did write that awkwardly, but I just meant I haven't read real demographic stats and was just going with my own racial guesses based on what I saw there. It turns out there's one girl with a white mom and a black dad who hadn't been there. I don't know how any of the families would identify their kids and toddlers don't do racial categories the way adults do, so that's all I meant.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 6:55 AM
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Despite my general hostility to Christian mythology, I wholeheartedly endorse the link in 193.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 8:29 AM
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194: From eighth percentile to low-average in the couple of weeks you've been caring for her is an encouraging trajectory -- sounds as if she had a developmental spurt bottled up that was triggered by the change in environment.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 11:12 AM
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I'd think that $31 for what can be up to 10.5 hours of care by people with lots of training and certification is ridiculously low, but I haven't looked into pricing other places

I've had a similar thought, that I can't fathom how our daycare stays afloat on its rates, but if it raised its rates I think it'd sink a lot of the parents. The baby room is $630/month and the toddler room is $575.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 11:22 AM
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Friends here pay a little under £1000 a month, for 4 days a week. So $600-ish sounds amazingly cheap.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 11:46 AM
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I think it is unusually cheap, for a place that's not run out of someone's house. But it's expensive given the median household income around here, which Wikipedia pegs at $25K.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 12:13 PM
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Although median income for a family is $37K. Not sure what exactly the difference is precisely.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 12:17 PM
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Not sure what exactly the difference is precisely.

Between $25K and $37K? Your math button must be broken.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 12:19 PM
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She's a mathematician, not an arithmetician.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 12:32 PM
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Some people call me a space cowboy.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 12:34 PM
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203: Is that... pompatus that I hear in your voice, heebie?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 1:08 PM
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Pot, kettle, Maurice.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-24-10 1:21 PM
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