And people wonder what you can do with a degree in linguistics.
Ooh, Oregon has an expensive flag. I still wish Massachusetts had kept its different obverse and reverse images. Useless flag trivia, Massachusetts and Maine are the only states that have naval ensigns.
John Ensign will put his navel on any state flag.
I never looked at the flags with as much care as the article prompted, even though I'm sure I looked over them all in the encyclopedia in elementary school. This makes me feel like all our states are best comparable to jumped-up rural English districts that are always thwarted in their quest for broader recognition by their deeply weird accents.
Maryland has the only heraldric flag, apparently.
Delaware is thwarted for so many reasons.
There is a lot of graphic design horror there.
/text adventure
There was some site a while back (probably linked here) that evaluated flags by graphic design standards and found most of them wanting. I forget if it did state flags or just national ones.
Maryland has the only heraldric flag, apparently.
Maryland is medieval like that. The state sport is jousting.
I like the maryland and California Flags.
I laughed at the Texas one, about going on a cruise to Puerto Rico. I think I've mentioned here before my memory device for distinguishing between the Texan and Chilean flags: for Texas, the blue part pushes all the way down the border.
I really wish there was a law against states having flags consisting of a single color background with an image of the state seal in the middle. Where's the verve? The panache?
I'm not crazy about the Minneapolis flag either, although it is better than the Hennepin County flag.
The state sport of New York is Gatsby.
The Chicago flag looks a lot like the DC flag.
Somebody not far from me continually flies the Pittsburgh flag from their porch. Me, I prefer the official Wisconsin hat.
7: Five principles of good flag design endorsed by the North American Vexillological Association according to Wikipedia (the 1st and 4th principles honored in the breach in many state flags):
Keep It Simple: the flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.
Use Meaningful Symbolism: the flag's images, colors, or patterns should relate to what it symbolizes.
Use 2-3 Basic Colors: that is limit of the number of colors on the flag to three, which contrast well and come from the standard color set.
No Lettering or Seals: never use writing of any kind or an organization's seal.
Be Distinctive or Be Related: avoid duplicating other flags, but use similarities to show connections.
14.1: I like those "seal on a bedsheet" flags (the term was taken from the link in 20). They are the perfect way to say, "Sure, we've got our own state, but we're not going to push this federalism shit too far."
21 independent of 20.
Note that Georgia changed theirs from the last place one in the survey.
And I don't care if that (i.e. 22) sets me against the combined might of the North American Vexillological Association's membership.
I confess an ongoing soft spot for this Adbusters flag.
14.1: I really wish there was a law
A totalitarian is an anarchist who's been offended by a stat flag.
I think he should just be happy that his state officials, when asked to make a flag and a seal, found a way to save time plus make less stuff for the school kids to learn.
26: an anarchist who's been offended by a stat[e] flag
Also, what's up with Alaska's flag, were they founded by fucking Fenians or something? False advertising if ever I've seen it.
Also, what's up with Alaska's flag, were they founded by fucking Fenians or something?
It's, like, really far north and stuff.
Then it should have a penguin, unambiguously.
21: Use Meaningful Symbolism: the flag's images, colors, or patterns should relate to what it symbolizes.
I like the Chicago flag, too, but I don't believe its symbolism is NAVA-approved:
The four red six-pointed stars on the center white stripe, from left to right (although this is not the order in which they were added to the flag):
The first star represents Fort Dearborn. It was added to the flag in 1939. Its six points symbolize transportation, labor, commerce, finance, populousness, and salubrity.
The second star stands for the Great Chicago Fire of 1871, and is original to the 1917 design of the flag. Its six points represent the virtues of religion, education, aesthetics, justice, beneficence, and civic pride.
The third star symbolizes the World's Columbian Exposition of 1893, and is original to the 1917 design. Its six points stand for political entities Chicago has belonged to and the flags that have flown over the area: France 1693, Great Britain 1763, Virginia 1778, the Northwest Territory 1798, Indiana Territory 1802, and Illinois 1818.
The fourth star represents the Century of Progress Exposition (1933-1934), and was added in 1933. Its points refer to bragging rights: the United States' 2nd Largest City (became 3rd largest in 1990 census when passed by L.A.), Chicago's Latin Motto (Urbs in horto - City in a garden), Chicago's "I Will" Motto, Great Central Marketplace, Wonder City, Convention City.
The Minnesota state flag should be a loon grinding a tattered Confederate battle flag into the dirt. With a timber wolf and a gopher cheering and eating lutefisk and wild rice in the background.
31: Are there penguins at the North Pole now? I had the impression they were not there, notwithstanding popular conception.
Would releasing a herd (flock?) of penguins into the Arctic be bad from an environmental perspective? I'm sure you'd get a lot of dead penguins before they could adapt, but if you succeed it would be pretty cool plus it would fuck with the heads of post-Dark Age II biologists and give the new version of creationism something to work with.
Chicago's flag passes more snooty graphic design tests than the Illinois flag does.
33: Furthermore, the animals should all be drinking various types of Surly beer.
34: Plus, my plan would fix that confusion.
Would releasing a herd (flock?) of penguins into the Arctic be bad from an environmental perspective?
Probably, but the existing Arctic ecosystem is rapidly vanishing anyway so it probably wouldn't make much difference. The new ecosystem is unlikely to be very penguin-friendly, though, so the plan probably wouldn't work.
Oh, and the loon could be eating a bratwurst.
35: I'm only in favor of this if they are blue penguins.
But penguins live in warmer places also. I'm not saying you have to get the open ice dwelling penguins (though that would be the best if it worked).
It's not just the warmer conditions and lack of ice, but the lack of a major landmass comparable to Antarctica. The only animals likely to benefit from a changing Arctic are completely aquatic ones, and even they probably won't benefit much.
give the new version of creationism something to work with
"And, lo, verily did the two penguins wakeboard behind Noah's ark upon tablets of His commandments to the island of Hans, where they brought His peace to a stupid dispute between the peoples of Canada and Denmark."
42: The Great Auk pretty much filled the niche of a warmer-condition northern penguin--flightless unlike other similar northern birds such as the Razorbill. Extinct since the mid 19th century.
34: Even Canadians aren't sure.
As well, 28% of those surveyed said penguins live in the Arctic, while 46% said they were unsure, meaning just 25% of Canadians know it's not true.
I love the California flag. The LA City flag is truly and remarkably hideous, however, with some nice jagged edges, a seal, and a color scheme appropriate for a Del Taco circa 1976.
I like the NYC flag.
St. Paul's flag is pretty fucking badass. However, while I know the internet would never lie to me, I can't remember ever having seen it flying anywhere, and I work downtown!
Well, I used to. Stupid shutdown.
Looking at the flag of my native city, I was thinking they should really do something artistic with the motto: Post Nubila Phoebus.
Then I saw that it was the motto adopted by Banastre Tarleton, whose use of the metaphor I do not like even a little.
Nothing good comes from looking East.
Would releasing a herd (flock?) of penguins into the Arctic be bad from an environmental perspective? I'm sure you'd get a lot of dead penguins before they could adapt,
The essential difference between the Arctic and the Antarctic is that one is ice-covered land surrounded by sea, and the other is ice-covered sea surrounded by land. Both have species of soft, squishy, edible animal, and of ferocious, befanged predatory animal. But in the Arctic, the ferocious, befanged polar bears live on the land, and the soft squishy seals hide from them in the sea. In the Antarctic, the ferocious befanged leopard seals live in the sea, and the soft squishy penguins hide from them on land.
Determining the effect of introducing soft, squishy land animals into an ecosystem dominated by ferocious, befanged land predators is left as an exercise for the reader.
The vampire-pelican business is also from old-school heraldry: the device was referred to as "a pelican in her piety", meaning that it was drawing its own chest-blood to feed its chicks, this being a widespread symbol of Christ (and good medieval natural history).
Plus the colours are white on blue: argent on azure, a metal on a tincture, is correct in heraldic terms.
tierce, have you read TH White's "A Book of Beasts"? First ever translation into modern English of a mediaeval bestiary... you might rather like it. (Same guy who wrote "The Once and Future King".)
50: so what you're saying is, we should also send some leopard seals up, to make it more exciting?
we should also send some leopard seals up, to make it more exciting?
This reminds me slightly of the story of the deputy mayor of Delhi who was attacked and killed by monkeys.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7055625.stm
"The city has long struggled to counter its plague of monkeys, which invade government complexes and temples, snatch food and scare passers-by.
The High Court ordered the city to find an answer to the problem last year.
One approach has been to train bands of larger, more ferocious langur monkeys to go after the smaller groups of Rhesus macaques. "
Yes, that's one option. However, a possible drawback does come to mind.
No I haven't, ajay: though there's already quite a lot of that stuff in aOaFK, and I read his book on falconry when I was a kid. (Just in case.)
There's also this description of a feast, in book three: "In the kitchens the famous cooks were preparing menus which included, for one course alone: ballock broth, caudle ferry, lampreys en gelantine, oysters in civey, eels in sorré, baked trout, brawn in mustard, numbles of a hart, pigs farsed, cockintryce, goose in hoggepotte, venison in frumenty, hens in brewet, roast squirrels, haggis, capon-neck pudding, garbage, tripe, blaundersorye, caboges, buttered worts, apple mousse, gingerbread, fruit tart, blancmange, quinces in comfit, stilton cheese, and causs boby."
Mmmm, garbage.
Chicken giblets, apparently.
"The Goshawk" is great. As is a lot of his other stuff; I read and loved "Mistress Masham's Repose" when I was a child, mainly for the Lilliputians who still talk in perfect 18th century English.
And when winter rolls around, the gorillas freeze to death!
50: We'll have to arm the penguins or paint them with poison.
New Mexico and Maryland win hands down, with Maryland edging out New Mexico for first place due to the superiority of it's pattern for repeating prints on things like scarves and slankets.
Of non-state flags the winner is the Union Jack, with second place going (unfortunately) to the Confederate battle flag. Honorable mention to Bhutan for the slightly confused looking dragon trying to figure out wtf these round things are. Fruit? Tennis balls? Can I eat them or should I throw them?
59: Wait, Maryland? Maryland's flag gives me motion sickness.
I can't believe tog is wrong about something. It's...so weird.
I'm fine with the flag. Can't approve of the song, though.
But fine with the "associated" Supreme Court decision IIRC.
59: I always thought the dragon was trying to figure out how to roller skate.
59. I actually think Y Ddraig Goch is a superior dragon. The Bhutan one looks too cuddly.
It cannot be overstated: Double Dragon is a pretty good video game.
A bunch of British counties have adopted flags in the past decade. Most of them seem to be crosses of random colors with a thing in the middle, far superior to the US state trend of being a blue rectangle with an incomprehensible coat of arms in the middle. I like this one.
Buckinghamshire's swan in bondage should meet up with the vampire pelican. Huntingdonshire takes the cake in terms of ugliness.
Mongolia's flag and comment 50 are the winners.
46. Sometimes state flags are just so Vermont. (Vermont)I think Vermont should feel honored by that, but I'm not sure. I guess she's trying to say that Vermont's flag really, really fits Vermont, but it just reads like she's saying Vermont's flag is boring.
I started trying to make a list of the five worst state flags, but couldn't narrow it that far down. There sure are a lot of jumbled, pointless eyesores there. In fairness, though, most of those images look like they're very low-resolution, so it's hard to judge. (If the diagonal stripes on Hawaii's flags actually have zigzaggy borders like in that image, that's definitely the worst one.)
Best flag ever? (Benin Empire). What really puts it over the top is that the figures look like they are from a Thurber drawing. $5 to the best caption.
71: I think I recognise that from the Monster Manual. It's chaotic neutral, right?
72: Those figures are from a Thurber drawing, surely. It's here, second one down, "Touché!"
http://www.thurberhouse.org/quotable-quotes.html
71: Nice, goes the Manx one better
71: I thought that was going to be the flag with the blindfolded and decapitated African man's head on it.
72: "I am sped."
74: Touché! Nice, forgot that one!
$5 to Thurber. Best I had was to put it in the domestic strife category, "The the cat goes with me."
Cats named "The" are worth fighting over.
72: "Whoever can pull the sword out of the neck shall be king!"
Nice, goes the Manx one better
The flag of the Tynwald is good though. Nice "We're going to burn your homes to the ground and sell your children into slavery" image.
81: "The world's oldest deliberative body. Brought to you in association with Austin Rover!"
My favorite flag is from Mobutu's Zaire. A corrupt and repressive state, but an awesome flag!
82: Are you seriously claiming that the flag of Sicily is "404 Not Found"? How gullible do you think we are?
72 $5 to the best caption.
"What a misunderstanding!"
With regard to the granting of arms in the United Kingdom, the Queen is officially the Fountain of Honour. (Really.)
72: Why not just stick with Thurber's version: "Touché!"
I was reading a Thurber book this weekend (turns out nobody's sure if soap operas can survive the transition to television) in which he revealed that the "Touché" cartoon was not his original idea, but that he was recruited to redraw it because his crappy draftsmanship rendered it less disturbing than the original, highly realistic version submitted to the New Yorker.
Don't mind me, I'm just annoyed I missed the obvious drawing to reference (I wonder if it was operating subconsciously?).
92: Indeed it was. Don't know how I missed it.
93: Must have been.
Thurber is wonderful, a very good observer.
But a very bad artist. I love his explanation of the cartoon with the woman crouching on top of the bookcase, with the caption "That's my first wife, and this is the second Mrs. Robinson." Apparently he was trying to draw a woman at the top of a flight of stairs, and the stairs wouldn't turn out right, so he made them a bookcase.
96: I love his explanation of the cartoon with the woman crouching on top of the bookcase, with the caption "That's my first wife, and this is the second Mrs. Robinson."
Linked in 77.2 for those who prefer cartoon drawings delivered visually.
Here's to you Mrs. Har-ar-is
The Bambino has left and gone away
96: there was one time that he tried to draw a seal on a rock, and the seal went OK but the rock ended up looking more like the headboard of a bed, so he ended up with a couple in bed with the wife saying exasperatedly "OK, have it your way, you heard a seal bark".
So how much contact would Thurber drawing in the 1920s or 1930s have had with flags of 19th century African states? I mean, OK, wiklepickle tells me he worked for the State Department, but I can't really imagine the circumstances where it would have come up.
101: Well, per Tweety's 91 apparently someone else cane up with the idea.
Then I , um, hrm, still don't understand.
101: A flag is the sort of thing you could come across anywhere -- I remember looking through pages of them in almanacs when I was a kid. (Boy, I bet almanac sales are way down these days.)
The original cartoonist may have been well versed in all things Beninish. But his/her cartoon was considered too gory by Ross, or whoever. So they paid the original cartoonist off, and Thurber redrew it in his style: because -- as someone commenting said, in a Thurber drawing a decapitated man can put his head back on the way real people replace a hat.*
So Thurber doesn't need to know anything at all about Benin.
*In his fairytale The White Deer, the rabbits in the Enchanted Forest can do just this: and he draws them doing it.
I love that book. I wonder where my copy is -- I haven't seen it in years. Probably in one of the kids' rooms.
105: But thinking about it now, other than the beheading itself there is also the similarity in the styles of the figures, especially the beheaded head. Probably coincidence, however.
A couple of final comments on Thurber misplaced in the wrong thread. Actual cartoonist was Carl Rose and not the first to note the resemblance.
Obviously the first to spot the coincidence were the legendary New Yorker fact-checkers.
OK, I did some small digging. While the flag remains awesome, it is not the "flag of the Benin Empire" and probably not even from Benin. It was captured in the 1897 Benin expedition, but probably from Itsekeri forces. (More info here.) The flag is held by the British Maritime Museum, which now describes it as being of likely Itsekeri origin. You can see that the original object in that last link is much less abstracted as an image then the intenet circulating one. It primarily resembles Thurber's in the bloodless beheading.
I can't figure out when the BMM started displaying the flag or during what period it started being labeled at the flag of the Benin Empire. To my knowleged, while flags were taken up enthusiastically in various parts of West Africa, they were military company flags rather than state symbols. While the flag may well have been displayed in the BMM as the flag of the Benin Empire, where Carl Rose or whoever could conceivably have gone to see it, it almost certainly would not have been included in a flags of the world type book in the first half of the 20th century because, contra David Cannadine, the Benin Empire wouldn't have been thought of as a nation like other modern nations, and even if it had had a flag, that flag would not have counted.
So, yeah, almost certainly a coincidence.
Last thought.
110: You can see that the original object in that last link is much less abstracted as an image then the intenet circulating one.
So if there was an influence on the representation on the internet it was probably from Thurber.
Possibly, though if you look at them side by side, the Thurber drawing differs from the image in a number of respects. The internet abstraction of the applique seems basically traced over, rather than Thurberized.
If I were looking for an artistic influence, rather than a stylistic conjucture, I would say the internet version of the flag more closely resembles the appliqued flags of Fante asafo (patrilineal millitia) companies. Now the Fante were some 350 miles away from the Itsikeri, but internet flag making people don't necessarily know that. Thurber also might could have learned a thing or two from them.
contra David Cannadine, the Benin Empire wouldn't have been thought of as a nation like other modern nations, and even if it had had a flag, that flag would not have counted.
"David Cannadine" s/b "Eddie Izzard", surely?
"Do you have a flag?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEx5G-GOS1k
