This is why I wear nothing that cannot be described as a muumuu, a caftan, or a jalabaya. In emergencies, a toga or a tarpaulin.
But seriously, like everything else, YMMV. I've got suits I've worn through a thirtyfive pound weight change, and they fit pretty well on both ends of the spectrum (oh, I was running out of room at the top end -- I probably couldn't have worn the same suit another five/ten pounds heavier.)
It all depends on your build and where you put on weight.
I get horrible gastric reflux pain when my pants are too tight. About twice a year, I face the choice of crippling pain, knocking off the Swedish Fish, or buying new pants.
I remember reading an odd study somewhere that said that wearing a tight belt kept people from putting on weight -- one group of people was told to wear a fitted belt every day, and without any other intervention they gained less weight over some period than a control group.
Yeah, this seriously is not generalizable about either clothes or what people notice. Often (esp I think for men) people won't notice a weight change at all if you move up a size, but will notice pretty quickly once the belly starts spilling over the belt.
Maybe so. At any rate, I've been appalled at how narrow the range at which my clothes fit.
What I mean is, if your pants are too small and your gut is spilling, that may be noticeable to others before they start feeling too tight. Maybe there's a male/female issue in that women's clothes are generally much more close-fitting.
I was running out of room at the top end
Maybe a sports bra would have helped?
Also, it's pretty noticeable and quick (or at least quicker than the variation Heebie describes) when buttons start straining the cloth of a dress shirt. Or at least I assume so looking in the mirror.
7: That gut-spilling thing -- putting on a belly while not changing size at all below the belt -- is much more common for men than women, isn't it? So that specifically would be a gendered experience.
But you're right about women's clothes generally.
But 9 and 5 are also consistent with what I'm saying - the clothes are causing problems (which may be visible) long before people would otherwise notice.
...but will notice pretty quickly once the belly starts spilling over the belt.
The old man habit of wearing high pants probably helped on that score. I do notice that my suit coats from ten years ago don't seem to fit very well, even when the pants still fit. This may be because I'm not used to wearing a coat but people do insist on my being enpantsed.
I think LB is right in that it depends on your build and how you put on weight. I can wear the same clothes through fairly large weight swings. (I think it has something to do with my hips and shoulders - they're wide enough that I have a fairly big lower limit, if that makes any sense, predicated by my bone structure.)
That's not to say that I don't notice weight gains or loss first from how my clothes fit; I do!
Maybe the range is related to apple vs. pear shaped people. I'm super apple-shaped. The range between "tugs at my waist" and "slips off my hips and gives pajama-pants butt" is aggravatingly small.
...when buttons start straining the cloth of a dress shirt
But men's dress shirts are pretty generously cut. Even the "traditional fit" ones are very loose on me and I am far from thin.
In fact, many pants can do both simultaneously. But I don't buy those.
13: Yeah, that's sort of what I've got going on. I have broad shoulders and a massive ribcage, so even when I was skinny I still needed to buy fairly large sizes. Putting on weight, it doesn't add to the dimensions that were already large, so the sizes I need don't go up until I put on a lot of weight.
gastric reflux
I loved the scene in Burn After Reading where Malkovitch explains to Clooney that "lactose reflux" is a confusion, and which canape?
Mean spirited movie, but sharply observed. Clooney wears slightly tight jeans with a high waist and tucked-in shirt.
I fail to understand men's belts as jewelry-- they kind of help for pants that are loose, but they're clearly objects being displayed in their own right. So why aren't they as brightly colored and interesting as neckties? The one avenue for experiment, buckles, is apparently only used by truckers/cowboys/headbangers (on the one hand) and toolish pimps-manque who go for high-gloss crap on the other. Lightly colored ones with tattoos would be theoretically viable, but I may as well carry computer books in a ratty backpack as do that.
I suppose men who need to wear a tie have to worry about the top button of a dress shirt.
15, 18: Yep, built exactly the same way. I'm not really a pear, but I'm also definitely not an apple.
Men's dress shirts are cut for John Madden. I am fit but no superhero, and I need to buy the unreasnoably expensive athletic-cut ones.
Also, wtf with tuck-or-not? The length of the shirt tail should clearly dictate what to do. In fact, at the cheapskate-who-likes-nice-fabric prices that I frequent, the fucking shirt itself provides no guidance.
I had a belt with a big Texas-shaped buckle for a while, but I never had the balls to wear it and eventually gave it away.
21: They never have 'Rectangular Prism' as an option for bodytypes.
I'm confused as to how P and LB have forgiving clothes and I have aggravating clothes, given that we seem to have the same builds.
You live in different parts of the country. A size 2 in the urban coastal department stores is wildly different than the same thing inland.
22.2: Men's dress shirt, except those ones the Cubans wear, should always be tucked in.
25: I was unclear. I don't have an apple build; what you describe in pants is unfamiliar to me.
It's perhaps just the top build that is similar? For example, dress shirts are my nemesis - they never button properly. And LW might be correct, but then again, I'd think it'd mean I'd have a harder time finding clothes as I'm definitely not a 2.
I never had the balls to wear it
It's the buckle that keeps it in place, Halford.
20, 22 -- I agree, men's shirts are, mostly, cut horrifically. I believe this is in part because they are designed for wearing a tie -- so you could gage whether or not you were getting fat by whether the top button closed, long before you burst the other buttons -- but people don't wear ties anymore and the shirts just balloon and sag horribly.
Yeah, I tend to gripe about weight gain when things start to get tight, and the typical reaction of whoever is subjected to my whining will be along the lines of, "But no! You look great! Your weight is fine!" Which, you know, fair and I appreciate the impulse to resist what at first blush appears to be yet another woman succumbing to body image pressures. And then I explain that I'm not worried about how I look; my pants just hurt.
The best cut men's dress shirts I've found were in India, so I recommend looking in places with high rates of malnutrition.
25: Do y'all dress similarly? I know that, if I'm wearing a close-fitting top, weight gain is apparent really quickly -- I gain almost exclusively in the gut, leading to a second-trimester profile when I'm just a bit on the heavy end of my normal range. But ifI'm wearing looser tops, I could go 20 pounds and no one would know.
3: That is so funny, I have a Swedish Fish problem too. I gained too much weight so I started biking to work. That didn't reverse my weight gain so I've been running for an hour three times a week. I still haven't lost weight and the only bad thing left in my diet is Swedish Fish. Crazy.
I'm eat candy corn now. More seasonal.
Oh man, I love candy corn so much.
Occasional smoking helps to decrease appetite.
Turns out that Swedish Fish are a deceptively dense source of carbohydrates, which I would not have guessed.
I guess I had assumed they were close to pure sugar.
carbohydrates are chains of sugars. Pepsi syrup is a second excellent source.
Glycemic index is the next step in comparing foods, but measuring that is more complex than fractioning and burning the food, so it's hard to put on a label.
My equilibrium with candy is to eat dark chocoolate when a sweet tooth hits, which is unfortunately often produced on farms that treat their workers badly.
I just bought a pair of fancy belts, but nobody ever sees me belts, even with a mirror, because I wear these XL t-shirts that almost reach my knees. Arabs use air to keep cool, you know.
I bought the belts because I am down 43 pounds in 5 1/2 months. Trying hard to lose only 5 pounds a month now, but it hard because I get out of the habit of eating. If I try to just go up a little I end up pigging out. I was walking around the house one-handed.
Also bought a new pair of cargo shorts. She took one glance and burst our laughing, as if there was something funny about the pink, black and gray Scottish pattern, with extra pink. These are for dog-walking.
But I can relate to H-G! None of my clothes fit. I though the cargos would be fine at 34, but maybe two sizes too big.
Be another story in a year. Some tragedy, like the loss of a dog of an election year will cause me to buy muffins and cokes.
I've lost about 15-20 pounds since I started biking about three months ago, but it seems to have leveled off there. I honestly don't know if anyone has noticed.
In the past year, I've started running again. I've gone from doing a 5K in 45 minutes to 34 minutes. I've also gained about three or four pounds.
But, my waist size has stayed the same.
I've gotten a lot of 'you've lost a lot of weight' commentary in the last year, when I actually haven't really. I think people see me schlepping my folding bike in and out of the office and therefore erroneously think of me as superfit, and turn that into a belief that I look different than I did last year.
Now would be a good time for somebody to let me know that I'm certainly gaining muscle or something.
Not to be a bore about this, but seriously unless you're 21 and naturally skinny, doing mild cardio like biking or running a few times a week just ain't gonna do it for weight loss. It won't, and it's not because you're not trying enough.
Weight loss is almost entirely diet, and doing "chronic cardio" can actually make you hungrier and cause weight gain. (I think "weight" is a bad metric and being fit or being uncomfortably fat is a better one, but that's a different story).
43: I'd noticed your comments seemed lighter these days.
48: You're certainly gaining something, Moby.
At least the candy corn isn't actually a grain.
50: it's never boring to see somebody gain expertise so quickly and mysteriously!
50: I went from no cardio (but lots of walking) to probably 45 min/day of biking. OTOH, there may also be an indirect mechanism--biking definitely helps my mood (way more than walking did), and I probably do less "emotional eating" as a result.
43: My margins have been feeling loose for quite some time.
Even more to the point, I probably eat out less and drink less alcohol when my mood is better.
Right, there are lots of very, very good reasons to exercise, and there are psychological feedback mechanisms that can work with helping you diet as well (avoiding emotional eating, as you say). I don't think I could do one without the other.
But the idea that ordinary people can use "cardio" as an effective means of "burning calories" to create sustainable or significant weight loss is basically wrong, despite being extremely widespread.
There's a vicious (virtuous) circle effect when you get in somewhat better cardiovascular shape. I'm a lot more likely to bounce off the couch and do something physical than I was before I started the bike commute. (More likely is still not very likely, but I was starting from a baseline that was hard to distinguish from a light coma.) So the total change in physical activity over a week is more than the amount of time spent formally exercising.
And, to be clear, this does not involve significant weight loss.
Right, I totally agree with 58, exercise helps you be a more functional, active, happy human, regardless of your weight. It's just the connection between mild cardio exercise and significant weight loss that's not there; to lose significant weight, you need to focus on diet.
I'm trying to recall the guy who is sometimes credited with starting/popularizing the cardio backlash (late '90s, early 90s?-- kind of a reverse Kenneth H. Cooper). As I recall, he tells it that one day at the gym he realized that the people using the treadmills and bicycles were "fatter" than those lifting weights and went on from there. Possibly just some self-promoter I read about in a magazine
I've read all the articles about how cardio doesn't help you lose weight and I have been trying to do more weights, but my diet is awesome. I've been a vegetarian for years, I eat cereal with lots of fiber for breakfast, I have a hummus sandwich for lunch and a salad for dinner. I snack during the day but I'm getting better about snacking on fruit and peanut butter crackers. So there's nothing left except to exercise more. And do people consider 15 miles a week of running and biking 7 miles five days a week light? I'm willing to accept the truth, but I thought that was a lot.
my diet is awesome. I've been a vegetarian for years, I eat cereal with lots of fiber for breakfast, I have a hummus sandwich for lunch and a salad for dinner. I snack during the day but I'm getting better about snacking on fruit and peanut butter crackers. So there's nothing left except to exercise more.
It is as if you are deliberately trolling me.
Basically, your choices are to eat less of the same stuff or to eat differently. Kill the peanut butter crackers and the morning cereal, for starters and [rant deleted].
Or, perhaps you're too skinny already. Who knows?
I had a great field lunch recently lolling on a sparse oak savannah, keeping an eye out for the mountain lion, eating milk-juicy kernels of half ripe oats off the stalks, thinking of you, Halford, and laughing.
So there's nothing left except to exercise more.
Your diet sounds pretty healthy, and if you were happy, I'd say it sounded great. But if you are looking for ways to tweak it, I'd say you could still increase your protein within the same calorie range.
Huevos rancheros for breakfast (refried beans, fried eggs and salsa).
Same lunch.
Put hardboiled eggs and legumes in your same salad.
Snacks: nuts, mostly. Or apples in peanut butter rather than peanut butter crackers.
I mean, I lift, so of course I'm only going to have one prescription for food. I'm only saying what I would be predicted to say. But I'll say it anyway: more protein.
You are not very big on variety, egg queen.
Well, Liz and I are vegetarian. If I ate meat, I'd have more ways to add concentrated protein to my diet.
Does the caveman diet allow enough fiber for comfortable pooping?
And yes. I get tired of eggs. But I never get tired of the notch below my delts.
67: That's a good idea, thanks. Has anyone heard of The China Study? It's making me think I should become a vegan.
70: If you're talking about the Paleo diet, Dooce said she poops three times a day, although she didn't say whether it's comfortable.
Somehow being thin and constipated seems not worth it.
Jesus fucking Christ. The China Study? You seriously are trolling me.
Of course the Paleo diet has sufficient fiber. You eat a shit-ton of vegetables, and a lot of fruit. Vegetables and fruit have more than enough fiber for your needs. The idea that you somehow need to be eating bran for survival is just rank nonsense.
I'm really not trolling you. What's wrong with the China Study? He uses studies to backup his assertions, many many studies with enough variety that you can't dismiss the research by saying he failed to account for genetics.
On the China study, you can start here and work your way back, and there are tons of other links.
Can you eat butter and cheese? I don't see me eating that many veggies with no flavor enhancing.
No cheese in the Paleo diet. Just meat, vegetables, and fruit.
I don't want to give anyone the impression that I care what anyone else eats, but will still point out that for me, roasting with olive oil, salt and pepper is considerably flavor-enhancing.
Here is some more stuff on the China study.
I cook my veggies in olive oil, and use salt; they are super flavorful and awesome.
Also, there's some controversy over dairy; many folks, including me, eat a little bit of cheese and yogurt now and then. And, sweet potatoes in limited quantity.
Anyhow, the best short intro (I think) to the Paleo Diet, including why it's not really about historical reenactment, is here.
57 Long backpacking trips with freeze-dried dinners are a great way of losing weight. Non stop intense exercise and disgusting food. Coming back from one of those has the reverse effect.
Can you eat butter and cheese? I don't see me eating that many veggies with no flavor enhancing.
Well, there are numerous ways to enhance flavor without butter, and while reducing high-fat cheese. Herbs, of course, and black olives (kalamata style), and lower-fat cheeses like feta and parmesan are my most frequent choices. Both add sodium and what I think of as toothiness. The rule of thumb I use for cheese is: the less likely it is to melt quickly when, say, put on toast on the toaster oven, the better. Lower fat. Which isn't to say that I don't love high-melty cheese, but in general, if I can enjoy something equally well with feta, I'll go for that.
On the cardio-doesn't-make-you-lose-weight front, the increase in energy (faster metabolism) goes quite a way. Isn't it pretty much known that cardio needs to be combined with weight training of some sort or another?
Halford, Lizspigot: Kiss and make up. You can all just get along.
the less likely it is to melt quickly when, say, put on toast on the toaster oven, the better.
So no queso?
the increase in energy (faster metabolism) goes quite a way
Not really, or not enough for significant weight loss. And of course cardio should be combined with weight training, but that's to get stronger and fitter and healthier, not to lose weight per se.
reducing high-fat cheese
No worse than regular fat cheese, unless you're trying a pure calorie reduction diet.
(I am making a funny. No endorsement. Just heard of the blog today.)
Anyhow, there are plenty of ways to eat a near-"paleo" diet while being a vegetarian, you'll just have a much lower range of options, and will probably have to compromise by eating some beans. The advice Megan gives above is very good.
84: That's hilarious because when I first read about the Paleo diet, I put it in the category of diets that would leave me so little food to eat that I would starve to death. There is hope for me yet!
Hurm. Maybe that isn't the right blog? Well, I dunno.
Halford, I'm confused. Is it your contention/sense that maintaining one's caloric intake and increasing one's level of exercise will or will not lead to weight loss? Again: static caloric intake + increased exercise = a) weight loss or b) no weight loss? Leave aside where you're getting your calories from, at least for the moment, okay? (Or maybe that's the point: the source of the calories really does matter.)
Well, there are numerous ways to enhance flavor without butter
There are, but none so effective and broadly applicable.
Here's one person's vegetarian paleo approach.
Basically, as a vegetarian, you could probably come very close to the paleo approach by eating an egg-heavy diet, allowing yourself some legumes, like chickpeas or even tofu, eating cheeses (especially raw-milk cheeses), eating tons of nuts, and drastically reducing the grain and processed food intake.
Honestly, I don't care at all what you eat, if it makes you happy, but swapping out some of the bread and carbs may be a more effective pure weight loss strategy (if that's what you care about) than just adding in more running and biking.
Salt and pepper, that idea might catch on. But olive oil isn't a complete replacement for butter.
86.1: I'm not sure what to say. I lost 35 or so lbs. about 6 years ago by walking roughly 12 miles/week (power walking, geeky), and moving on to incorporate resistance training/weight machines at the gym, which was usually a 2-hour-long enterprise (since I kind of loved it), just twice a week. It took about a year, true. I didn't change my diet much -- it was already pretty healthy vegetarian -- but I did reduce portions (e.g. half a homemade pita-pizza instead of 3/4), insist on having breakfast (just a banana, maybe oatmeal, maybe a piece of toast with a slice of juicy tomato and a sprinkle of feta), incorporate green tea.
Diet-wise, I'm with you on the problems inherent in overloading on carbs, but as a vegetarian, I have to have legumes.
Butter is so delicious.
This entire thread is making me crave brioche, but it's such a pain to knead and takes so long to rise...
95: I'm saying it's as effective and broadly applicable. Neither is a complete replacement for the other.
If it takes too long to rise, you can send him to a doctor.
98: Life would be diminished, but you can live without olive oil. Not so for butter.
91 -- if you really could maintain static calorie consumption, and exercised, you would lose weight (though (a) not as much as many people think, since even at quite active levels of cardio you're not burning that many calories and (b) what you eat matters, see below).
The problem is that the body works through feedback mechanisms and static calorie consumptin is likely to be illusory. Exercise more and you will get hungrier; if you respond to that cue by eating a muffin, you will instantly lose the weight-loss benefit of the day's exercise and may well end up worse off than where you started.
As to what you eat, heavy carb consumption causes your insulin levels to spike. Noncontroversially, this makes people hungrier and often leads them to consume more calories. Somewhat more controversially, this is because the consumption of the carbs actually changes the composition of the way in which you are "fat", by creating fat that is harder to process into energy and thus sticks around on your body.
99.--I thought that was if it failed to stop rising after 4 hours or so?
101.2: Well, right. That's why you don't eat a muffin. You eat a light lentil salad in a red wine vinaigrette tossed with minced red onions and garlic and chopped red and/or green and/or yellow peppers (pretty! energizing) and maybe some shredded kale and some chopped black olives and sprinkled feta cheese. Fresh chopped basil if you have it. If necessary, you fork that onto half a piece of pita bread. Then it's not a snack: it's dinner. I guarantee that it's low-calorie, delicious, and is good for lunch the next day.
I miss the days when I exercised regularly, ate lots of pasta, was in decent shape, and was still a bit skinny.
Well, if that works for you, awesome, and that's a diet on which most Americans would lose a lot of weight. But (a) that's a fairly light food intake for lots of people that will often leave them hungry after heavy exercise and (b) not a lotta protein except from the lentil salad and (c) if you go to crazy with the lentil salad and the pita bread, you end up with carb consumption that have just negated your morning's exercise gains.
But in general, sure, the key is diet. I'm just pushing back on the idea that you can just do cardio alone, without a significant change in diet (either in portion or composition) and expect to see serious weight loss. You may get a lot of other benefits from the cardio, of course.
106: that's a fairly light food intake for lots of people that will often leave them hungry after heavy exercise
Ah. Maybe so. I've been eating like that for a while. What I was missing, big-time, was the exercise. It's also true that I tend to eat something every, say, 5 hours. It may be grapes or a peach or pear or apple, or a mixture of nuts and raisins, or if I'm just hungry and wanting something rib-sticking, a rice-cake with peanut butter. I'm a sucker for peanut butter.
Obviously I don't go crazy with the lentil salad. There are plenty of other things on the menu.
Forgot to add to 105 that I eat noticeably less now and probably eat a bit more meat. My diet is kind of a mess.
82: Long backpacking trips with freeze-dried dinners are a great way of losing weight. Non stop intense exercise and disgusting food. Coming back from one of those has the reverse effect.
A number of years ago I read an article in a magazine written by an experienced outdoorsman describing his three most "transcendental" moments in the out of doors. One was after he had come back in after a long trip in the Sierrras and was about to cook something up in butter; before he knew it he had eaten the whole stick and was being overwhelmed by the realization that, "Butter is good!"
My son ate a quarter sick of butter on a single piece of bread before I noticed and stopped him. Organic butter is not cheap.
we had grilled cheese BLTs for dinner, hold the L. Now I am eating potato chips.
Leftover risotto, fried in butter. Mmm. Not paleo, but tasty.
I had tilapia, rice, and broccoli.
I had onions, bok choy, and eggplant. I'm trying to use up my CSA share. For breakfast, I had a kale and zucchini omelet. It was a paleo kind of day.
No meat, of course. Some diets really aren't veg-flexible.
I seem to have forgotten to eat dinner.
Also, people can tell me I'm full of it, since I think of this as, possibly, an old wives' tale, but I tend to take seriously the notion that eating a number of small meals or portions per day is better than eating three round meals per day. I think of the latter as a problematic exercise in stretching your stomach.
The idea would be that if you eat a whole bunch at one sitting, certainly if you eat the quintessential meat-and-potatoes meal, well, you're totally filling (and stretching) your stomach. You'll feel quite full, sure, even kind of bloaty -- which is something I don't like at all -- and then as time goes on before the next meal, your stomach goes, "Hey, man, I'm shrivelling here. Fill me."
Rather better to not eat a whole lotta food at one sitting, and provide something to the smaller, unstretched stomach every 4 hours. This way you feel satisfied without shoveling in a boatload of food at actual dinner or lunch time.
Or else this is all hogwash.
I once was getting ready - last minute organizing, packing, etc. - for a long backpacking trip and realized late in the day that all I'd eaten that day was beef jerky. Lots of beef jerky. I can't remember if I ate anything else after realizing this.
Wheat... lots of wheat... fields of wheat... a tremendous amount of wheat..
Potato chips (and french fries, anything like that) give me zits. Like, within 48 hours. It's totally predictable.
119: And when you woke, your pillow was missing.
I have not personally found 118 to be true for me. I really look forward to planning a meal and cooking it over a long time, even when I'm super-hungry, and, oddly, am more able to control my portions than when I'm snacky all day.
The other problem is my mom's--she says she's into several small-portion meals all day, but it turns into "I'm feeling a bit peckish! Just a plate of corn chips with melted cheese and salsa..." and an hour and a half later "Just a bowl of ice cream, just a scoop or two..." She's obsessed with talking about dieting and losing weight, but I find in the case of her compulsive eating that the five or six little bites a day quickly turns into an excuse to eat what you want all the time.
I'm much better when I really think about what I want for two regular-sized meals (breakfast and dinner), and have a snack for lunch. Grabbing quick things all day is a drag.
I might be odd in that. When I'm super ridiculously hungry, I know exactly what I want. (I want this bok choy and charred eggplant!) When I'm not hungry, I make stuff that isn't as good for me.
Omelette, spinach, and toast sandwich--huzzah. I do feel much better.
124: The opposite of this--"I'm hungry, but I don't know what I want!"--drives me up the wall.
Except the salami and a slice of bacon with breakfast, I have had no meat today. Maybe that's why I needed the candy corn.
123, 124: Grabbing quick things all day is a drag.
I do a fair amount of planning, if you can call it that, to control for that. Your daily schedule has a lot to do with it: when I'm at work, since I work with books, I can't be snacking on messy-hands kinds of things anyway. So I bring a small tupperware of red grapes (folic acid! anti-cancer), which don't get on your fingers much and are like a bright burst of flavor in your mouth, and have a tupperware of mixed nuts and raisins at the shop.* Around 5 p.m., having had lunch around 1, the grapes are work out fine.
If you're not in daily workplace situation, it would be more difficult. I don't do as well on my days off.
* Wasn't there a study mentioned here at some point suggesting that portioned quantities of snacks, like in a transparent container, were more likely to lead to controlled snacking than those in a bag?
120: I'm dying, they're talking about wheat.
I ate this chicken dish and broccoli tonight. I am not generally a huge fan of the boneless, skinless chicken breast, but this preparation is reasonably tasty, and more importantly my dinner on certain days is a function of what a seven-year-old will eat.
I was feeling lazy but hungry so: store bought cheese pierogi fried in butter with horseradish cream and onions fried first in butter and then with duck bacon.
Perfectly edible.
You'll feel quite full, sure, even kind of bloaty
I am generally grain-avoiding in my diet these days, and on the occasions when I do eat them, the particular feeling of fullness is so novel. I had enchiladas with rice in them a few weekends ago, and I felt so strangely, definitively sated. It wasn't unpleasant, since I hadn't overeaten, but it was weird.
129.1: My bucket list includes quoting that entire movie online, as well as the complete works of Thurber.
My chicken was definitely better than you get at Tresky's.
AWB, with respect to 123. This is probably an uncalled-for thing to say, but your mom's going to be on the road to Type II Diabetes. I say this, despite how impertinent and possibly obnoxious it is, because, well, my mom had a habit of that kind of thing, and yeah, she became diabetic. I know your relationship with your mom is strained in various ways, but I dunno, I became a little worried. I apologize if it's completely out of line on my part.
131: I'm still in the middle of a low-carb "diet" (down 22 in 2 months ... not that I'm counting), but have been allowing myself some grains on racquetball days. Like today, I had a sandwich! it's a treat and yes I feel sated and temporarily like a relative superman*.
*Not necessarily a good sign for long term adherence to a somewhat lower grain diet.
There's a totally overpriced taco place near me where I ate a bean & cheese taco, one baja-style fish taco, and two tamarind chicken tacos (which are fuckin' scrumptious and almost justify the $4-per-taco price). I'm looking forward to moving somewhere with more nearby veggie options.
Also, to all the people talking about men's dress shirts... It's kind of annoying that dress shirts are pretty much the one item deliberately made NOT to fit you when you buy it. Unlike dress pants that are obviously left unhemmed, they make men's shirts look somewhat finished, but they still need a tailor to make them wearable. Apparently producing readymade shirts in a few different shapes is just too much work.
This is probably an uncalled-for thing to say, but your mom's going to be on the road to Type II Diabetes. I say this, despite how impertinent and possibly obnoxious it is, because, well, my mom had a habit of that kind of thing, and yeah, she became diabetic.
Oh, let me tell you how easy it is to get your mom to change her eating habits.
I had a burger.
(Look away, Halford)
IN A BUN!
Oh, also I had a bunch of beers. Those don't count, though.
133: My chicken was definitely better than you get at Tresky's.
I won't eat any food that begins with the letter F.
135: Like today, I had a sandwich!
This made me laugh. I have a serious weakness for bread -- what can I say -- and am not doing great on that front. It's difficult to find a middle ground between a meat-based diet and a carb-based one. I should probably just eat more meat, but I'm seriously out of practice.
Bowties in alfredo w/ parm, thin sliced zukes sauteed in oo with feta.
142.last: You just put your lips together and ... chew.
144: You have to prepare and cook the meat first, Stormcrow. I'm not very good at that after 20 years of mostly-vegetarianism. I'm worried about my cutting board. And how do you get rid of the waste? Plus the dishwashing is a horrible liability. Everything will get all stinky and gross.
I had lentil soup along with some of those pretzel remnants they sell, the ones coated in salt, pepper, and what simply has to be crack cocaine.
136.2: Look into "fitted" or "slim fit" shirts. They do exist. I just bought some.
But it's cheaper to buy awesome shirts from the thrift store and have them taken in, so I mostly just do that.
Cooking meat is very, very easy. At least the nicer cuts. Cleaning difficulty isn't dependent on meat, but rather on fat, the way you cook things and the materials you're using. Rotten meat is indeed pretty nasty, but it's still got nothing on rotten onions. If you don't like the stuff or have ethical objections, that's a different story, but otherwise eating meat makes life easier, and, if you like it, much more enjoyable.
Rotten potatoes are the worst rotten thing. Fact.
it's still got nothing on rotten onions.
Assuming you store them correctly.
Agreed about rotten potatoes.
And also about meat choice. Probably don't roast a whole chicken if you're just returning to and squeamish about meat preparation-- the fat is luscious and clings to everything.
148: I don't see that it makes life easier, but obviously I'm thinking about it. It's a different skill set in the kitchen. I also just don't really like handling it. So it's mostly a question of whether my body recommends it.
the fat is luscious and clings to everything
she said schmaltzily.
Long backpacking trips with freeze-dried dinners are a great way of losing weight. Non stop intense exercise and disgusting food.
Especially in winter, IME - I guess you burn a lot more calories to keep warm all the time. I spent a week doing that kind of thing once and lost 6 kg, though I think some of that was probably mild dehydration.
145: What made you break your vegetarianism? I like my slow steps to becoming vegan because in addition to not worrying about meat spoiling, I don't have to worry about milk going bad. Using milk substitutes with their months-in-advance expiration date is wonderful.
155: but vegetables spoil too! and they don't seem to be as readily freezeable as meat.
Having read about both paleo diets and the china study related diets it seems like they have a lot of overlap. I am guessing that a lot of the benefits from each has to do with reducing the amount of processed carbs/foods one eats.
156: They spoil much slower and less dramatically. I don't keep potatoes around so I don't know about how they spoil, but my veggies just wilt or grow mold.
I eat low carb. It is 100% the way to go if you want to lose weight. It has the best compliance rate of any of the diets. Exercise does very little.
Paleo/low-carb cuts into your endurance though. You can't really do the paleo thing and be a marathon runner or anything. If you go that route, most people just lift weights instead.
158: The 'rotting lettuce juice' is some of the worst stuff I've seen for spoilage.
most people just lift weights instead.
As God intended.
Thinking about it, I've decided that the worst stuff for spoilage is that vegetable that regularly appears way back at the bottom of my fridge crisper drawer.
155: What made you break your vegetarianism?
I've never really been a full-fledged vegetarian in the first place, but a mostly-vegetarian, which is to say that while I basically never cook meat at home (oh, maybe once every two years), I do sometimes have it when eating out. Generally fish or chicken, no lamb or beef.
If I start to relearn how to cook it myself, it'll be because I suspect that my protein needs aren't being met. When I have salmon, I invariably find it absolutely delicious, and feel pretty good afterwards. It's partly an age thing: *if* I haven't really been properly attending to my nutritional needs, my body needs me to do so more now that I'm getting older.
That said, vegetarian eating has become such a habit that my palate has changed: I don't have much of a taste for fat (except cheese). The last time I experimentally used chicken stock for a soup I wanted to throw the whole pot out. Yuck. I can't imagine eating an entire hamburger. That's not disapproval of those who do enjoy it. I used to, but don't any more.
I did have some venison a couple of years ago that was astonishingly good. Like, moan-level, "Oh my god" good. Oh, and some bites of a rabbit pot-pie several years ago that was terrific.
Venison is one of the things I miss most. Most meats don't have much flavor so chicken or fake chicken are pretty much the same. But all the liquid smoke in the world won't trick me into thinking I'm eating venison.
Nonetheless, I feel badly, because that's a deer I'm eating. And there are live deer in my back yard who are living their lives, capering about and playing games with their children. I have trouble disconnecting these things some times. I understand that animals die, but eating them after the fact is probably closer in my mind to cannibalism than it feels for many other humans.
Fish and chicken will probably be about it for me, meat-wise, if I make an ongoing habit of this.
Nonetheless, I feel badly, because that's a deer I'm eating. And there are live deer in my back yard who are living their lives, capering about and playing games with their children.
If it helps, deer are about as smart as fish and chickens.
That's not really it, though it seems like it. It's a question of what counts as food, and the fact that these things are variable. You probably wouldn't eat a dog, and you might think that's because you find dogs intelligent in some way, but it's probably more because dogs don't count as food for you. Just as bugs probably don't. It doesn't necessarily have to do with their smarts.
I've recommended here before a paper by Cora Diamond called "Eating Meat and Eating People" -- I can't find an online copy of it, just references. It is available via JSTOR.
I don't like admitting this, knowing how much it'll cause Halford to gloat, but I'm seriously considering going paleo. My main concerns are:
1. Cost. I'm only working a part-time job at the moment, and that's barely enough for my living expenses. Meat isn't cheap.
2. The first month of misery. I'm unhappy enough as it is; I don't want my diet nudging me into suicide-risk territory.
3. Energy levels. Don't these drop drastically at first? I'm biking 22 miles 6 days a week.
I should clarify point 3: my worry is that I won't have the energy to do my commute. Though I can cheat a bit with the Caltrain, as I've actually done twice this week already.
Maybe you should say why you are considering going Paleo, trapnel.
Oh, right: to lose weight. Because my clothes don't fit. I really only have one pair of pants that's comfortable, a pair of jeans my roommate gave me. What makes this even more frustrating is that I did in fact buy two pairs of jeans around two months ago, but somehow failed to notice until it was too late to return them that the waists on both were much too wide (my problem is primarily the gut-bulging-over-waist thing alluded to earlier rather than a waist-thickening problem). Oh, and then I forgot to pay the bill on time for the stupid Gap visa I signed up for in order to get a stupid one-time discount, so the end result is that I paid about twice what I had intended to, and probably took a credit rating hit, in order to acquire pants that don't fit. Just thinking about it make me want to cry.
You probably wouldn't eat a dog, and you might think that's because you find dogs intelligent in some way, but it's probably more because dogs don't count as food for you.
Mostly it's because my Tongan buddy assures me that dog is not as tasty as lamb or pork.
Yes! I just saw this from Trapnel. To the three worries:
1) Yes, it will cost more. Especially b/c it's not just meat that you're eating, it's high quality, preferably grass-fed meat; if you consume a lot you really don't want it loaded up with hormones and antibiotics and other crap. However, (a) good quality bacon is not that expensive and readily available where you live; (b) you can eat a lot of eggs; (c) food is so cheap that many people's budgets can handle a substantial increase in food expenditure, though that's cold comfort if that's not you; (d) you may end up eating fewer meals/day, which can save money on eating out; I've substituted my daily lunch for a bag of almonds and some fruit. On the other hand, how much would you pay to not be fat? For me, the answer is "a lot."
2) It's not really miserable, I think? Wasn't really at all for me anyway. Just get a lot of almonds to snack on. Like, a ton of almonds. And eat a much bigger breakfast than you would normally; I eat at least a 1/2 pack of bacon every morning, sometimes with some leftover steak on the side. Also, you may want to increase your exercising, which should help out on any depressive effects.
3) Energy levels do not drop. Sometimes people who are serious cardio-types and are used to "carbo-loading" before they do serious endurance stuff feel less able to do that, but this goes away over time. Your bike commute should be fine. If it's not, just eat more fatty bacon in the morning. Do not try to do the diet with "low fat" meat (indeed, avoid "low fat" anything).
a 1/2 pack of bacon every morning, sometimes with some leftover steak on the side
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude. That's like fourteen farms with of heart attack frankly kind of impressive in its own weird way.
Walnuts are cheaper than almonds, IME.
It's a good thing Stanley struck "with of" through.
Might be easier on the wallet if you have access to a Costco.
Trapnel, is losing weight your primary concern? I'd say you could do the high-protein veggie version and lose weight for cheaper. (I'm assuming so, having not priced meat, but assuming it is more expensive than all veggies but mushrooms.) You might want the meat version for other reasons, but I bet you could lose weight on both.
The veggie version would allow you to trade time for money, which might suit you. I've been using a slow cooker to make batches of beans (which actually doesn't take much time). I eat ful just about every day for lunch, with a tomato salad. (tomato, cuc, onion, garlic, lemon, salt, olives, basil, parsley - if I leave out one or two ingredients, I can pretend it is totally different from yesterday.)
Breakfast and dinner are egg dishes. Huevos rancheros. Frittata. Omelets. Egg salad on spinach.
1. Likely to be cheaper than meat-based paleo.
2. I don't remember a mood change, but I'm a pretty placid person in general. I will say that no matter what diet you do, eating intentionally is self-absorbed and eventually dull.
3. Don't remember an energy drop. If so, eat more.
4. He's not kidding about the almonds. I go through a lot of almonds. And walnuts.
I go through a lot of pistachios, because walnuts don't taste very good.
181: You should try Everybody's Nuts. And I don't say that solely because it's fun to say. They really are quite tasty (the salt 'n' pepa ones, specifically).
For me, pecans > almonds > walnuts. Don't know how to slot other nuts in--they fill a different niche. A few cashews are great, but "a few+1" is hard for me to predict in advance.
Using quotas to keep the cashews down won't work.
I vastly prefer walnuts to almonds. We found our my sister was allergic to walnuts before we learned she was allergic to nuts in general, so walnuts were a forbidden food for longer. Also I prefer the taste.
Somehow, though, I can just eat and eat and eat almonds, while walnuts fill me up pretty quickly. Like, I'll just go through a bag of almonds larger than my fist abentmindedly in a day, but a small handful of walnuts and I can't eat any more.,
Pecans are suitable only for dessert.
Freshly toasted pecans are perfectly capable of being totally awesome on a bed of greens, alongside some goat cheese and perhaps some orange slices. Which is to say, whatever, nosflow.
Remember when nosflow used to be right?
A balsamic vinaigrette, prepared in the skull of a recently vanquished foe.
The salad in 188 goes with thousand island dressing, Moby, duh.
Don't be absurd, parsimon. This is the internet.
I think Stanley made a better dressing selection.
Actually. I don't have a regular habit of toasting nuts, even though I should: do you do this in a dry skillet on super-low for, like, a couple of minutes, or in a toaster oven? I've seen both described. Also, do you halve the nuts first, or after toasting?
I'm not a fan of skulls, but I really do not like thousand island dressing on a salad.
I find it difficult to imagine liking thousand island dressing on anything, but opinions differ. I'm pretty sure it's the "special sauce" on a Whopper.
195: For pecans, I just toss them (whole) onto a cookie sheet and then into the oven at, say, 350° for a few, crossing my fingers I don't forget about 'em (again).
There undoubtedly exist more artful methods.
Whole almonds in the (toaster) oven at, mm, 350° for 15' just start browning & crack & smell great. Useful if someone is turning up & you need the 15' to tidy.
and then into the oven at, say, 350° for a few
But a few what?!? Years? Dollars? Countrymen? Oh god cooking is stressful.
But a few what?!?
At least it's less than the magnitude of the universe.
197: Pretending not to know what a Big Mac is not necessary.
If already tidy, nuts toasted in a heavy pan with spices & salt & a little sugar to caramelize at the end make the universe seem more manageable.
198, 199: Thanks. I don't know where I got this pan idea from; maybe it just seemed more appealing, because easier.
If you have fifteen minutes, you can put some brie in the oven until it gets all melted and the serve it with bread chunks.
Actually, if you're going to get the oven hot, may as well make brownies or cookies. Chocolate chip cookies don't take long to mix up and you can bake a whole batch of dough at once if you spread it over a half-sheet pan.
I don't have any cookies or brie. I do have crostata, but I lack a dessert wine.
Yes, the only goal is weight loss. Hmmm. Thanks, both of you.
Right. Weight loss. I should get on that once we run out of pie.
Meat isn't necessarily more expensive if you buy cheap cuts; the kind that require tons of braising and other slow cooking. Veggies can be horribly expensive in tomato season.
I suppose I could make lots of stews. That's the sort of thing you can make, then eat all week, right? Hmmm.
Just make and eat carnitas twenty-four seven.
A Carlisle man is accused of eating raw meat at the borough's Walmart and putting the opened packages back on the shelves.On the veldt there were no "loss prevention staff".
Also I just caught that his last name is Shover.
Yet another tragic case of "shove and purge".
At that same site: "Toby Keith is visiting the midstate today, but not to perform. The award-winning country music singer and songwriter will sign bottles of his own unique brand of hard liquor from 3-4:30 p.m. today at the PA Wine and Spirits Store, located at the Crossroads Shopping Center, 351 Loucks Road, Manchester Township, York County."
220: The label says it's full of piss and vinegar, but it's actually weak sauce.
Toby Keith's Wild Shot Mezcal. Slogan: "Blame it on the worm."
The fan page contains submitted photos of drunk, sunburnt people with a worm clenched in their teeth.
Dilute vinegar turns out to be nice to drink. Tell your friends!
Green agave, but he wanted a check.
Apparently Agave americana as opposed to Agave tequilana.
I guess Agave americana is the only kind Toby Keith would consider.
Agave americana to some guy and he stuck it to the walls of his moderately priced eatery with unremarkable food.
Cavemen ate every part of the animal they could digest, no? That would make potted meat food product much more authentic for a paleo diet than bacon.
231: another candidate for my Palaeo-Highlander diet. You eat haggis twice a day, augmented with anything you can steal.
232: OMG no cave-Scot would debase himself with oats! You'd need to stuff your haggis with bacon. Or more bacon.
I think you can also get canned brains, because the cavemen wouldn't have left that juicy bit behind.
The Zombie Weight Loss Plan. Lurch a minimum of 8 km a day and eat nothing but brains.
And yet the vegan zombie longs only for grrrraaaaaaaainsssss.
Actually, it's true that unless you're a professional distance athlete, the amount you exercise in a day really has very little impact on how much you would weigh, as it represents very little of your overall caloric expenditure, and is easily offset by other things, like increased appetite and muscle gain, and actually does have almost no effect on your long term metabolism (your metabolism is fairly regular, and it's really hard to speed it up or slow it down without something totally drastic--skipping meals or moderate exercise won't do one or the other). I'm on the skinny end of things, and I lost about 5 lbs when I stopped distance running competitively, mostly muscle mass but I also just started eating less. It's particularly true that if you are at "normal weight" for your height, exercise is as likely to increase your weight as it is to decrease it unless paired with a calorie restricting diet. Actually, aside from diet, fidgeting has been shown to be linked to maintaining a slender weight, because it's actually low level, constant movement that is carried out over the course of an entire day. People who fidget can eat 100s more calories a day than non fidgeters, though since it's usually a semi-conscious activity, people don't really take it into account when they think about exercise.
In terms of noticing weight, I don't have a huge weight fluctuation as an adult (probably 15 lbs total range since I've hit my mid teens), and in my experience no one (except my mother and grandmothers) notices when I'm from my mid to highest point, but everyone and their mother comments if I move around from my mid to my lowest point. I find it interesting that, say, a 3 lb loss would far more noticeable than a 3 lb gain.
Oh...and you can pry dairy out of my cold, dead, hands. I'm also on what I'm going to market as The Grad School Diet, which involves going to receptions, eating half the cheese tray, and then running away before the visiting speaker shows up. I'd say cheese makes up about 40% of my diet.
Potted meat food product is very affordable. You can put it on crackers or in lettuce wrappings.
236: In the Caribbean, plaintaaaaains.
Actually, aside from diet, fidgeting has been shown to be linked to maintaining a slender weight, because it's actually low level, constant movement that is carried out over the course of an entire day. People who fidget can eat 100s more calories a day than non fidgeters, though since it's usually a semi-conscious activity, people don't really take it into account when they think about exercise.
Good news for me! Has there ever been a half-hour period when I was awake and not at least engaged in fidget-level activity? Probably not!
I find the fidgeting thing absolutely convincing -- Buck is both incredibly skinny, and distinctly twitchy. He's usually on his feet doing something, but even when he sits he's moving.
I'm also a big fidgeter. Not as big as Jammies, though, who sometimes bounces his leg while being sound asleep.
Weirdly, if we're sitting on a couch or something close and he's bouncing his leg, it satisfies my urge to fidget. We're almost never competitively fidgeting.
Moby Hick:
Cheese is even more affordable than potted meat if it's free and sitting on a tray in cubes. There's also often lettuce underneath, so you can wrap the cheese in lettuce if you want. It's even freer opportunity-cost wise if you skip the lecture and just come for the cheese (or better yet, if you can get away with it, eat the cheese DURING the lecture and then run away before those who actually attended come out and ask you annoying questions about the talk.)
Goethe knew that the secret to maintaining a trim figure was unceasing fidgeting, no matter the situation:
Oftmals hab' ich auch schon in ihren Armen gedichtet.
Und des Hexameters Maß leise mit fingernder Hand
Ihr auf den Rücken gezählt.
Great. Now I've got to crack the secret code used for Goethe's writing.
244, 245
Shorter Goethe: 'Baby, as a fuck, you suck' (and not in a good way).
Buck is both incredibly skinny, and distinctly twitchy
I'm fidgety, but nobody would call me skinny.
I'm fidgety but not skinny. On the other hand, I eat a lot of calories.
I hardly eat anything but calories. I chew fingernails, but I don't really eat them.
My guidance counselor will be so happy she was right on that call.
I am aweinspiringly reposeful. I think there's some background feature in my brain that's attempting to avoid predation and remain unobserved through motionlessness. Conscious knowledge that eagle attacks are rare doesn't seem to change anything.
I also eat a lot. I figure combining these strategies can only lead to good things.
Let me introduce my latest diet spokesperson. Some of you may know him as Jesus.
253.2: The combination certainly keeps the floors cleaner than moving and eating.
Shorter Goethe: 'Baby, as a fuck, you suck' (and not in a good way).
At this point she's asleep, you cad; he isn't bored during the act itself.
Has Britta gotten a cheese fruit basket, or have I missed a pseud change?
Carp has never tried my diet. So, not fish sandwiches.
Let's be fair, will; you probably wouldn't like a carp's diet.
260: *They* sure seem to enjoy it. Mmm, whatever crap just got thrown into the water.
One of my best friends just gave me a new nickname that I found both hilarious and deeply sad: Annierexia. See, I used to weigh, at my max, 216 lbs. That was back in early '06. I began dieting and exercising and lost 65 lbs and 42" off my frame. I felt like a new woman, and while my BMI was once again in the healthy range, I was still considered overweight for my height, 5'8".
I was an increasingly-worsening alcoholic at the time, and as we know, alcohol converts straight to sugar in the system, adding additional pounds. It wasn't so much that I gained a lot of weight; I just looked really bloated.
Quit the sauce in Feb. of '08 and lost another 25 lbs. Literally, after quitting drinking, the weight just melted off without exercise.
Alcoholism took it's toll and last year, I began developing acute pancreatitis multiple times, vomiting constantly, losing another 25-30 lbs. At present, I have chronic upper epigastric pain that makes eating painful, chronic diarrhea and intermittent vomiting, coupled with no appetite and general malaise.
I've lost half of my former body size. I weigh 113 lbs. That's not healthy and my BMI is in the "holy crap, you're underweight!" category. I have to constantly buy smaller clothes that adhere to my decreasing frame. Size 6 was too big, go to size 4. The skinny jeans that I painted on last year are now baggy and look like shit.
Just as those who struggle with extra weight can attest, finding the right fit of clothes is a continuous struggle. But it's the same for people who are grossly underweight. I've lived on both sides of the coin and blog about it frequently at http://www.theoffbeatdrummer.blogspot.com.