For me it would depend how intimate the dinner was. Not if it's a fundraiser with 100 people eating chicken a la king.
But it looks like him and 4 supporters, so maybe.
No, you should do it so he can say he found $5.
I could suggest myself as a Supreme Court nominee.
Be sure to tell them there's an extra $5 in it for him if he does nominate you.
Moby, I believe in rigorously avoiding even the suggestion of the appearance of misconduct.
Tell him that, but look innocent and cover your mouth to avoid lip readers.
How do you feel about actual misconduct? Wait! Don't answer.
Make a donation today to be automatically registered for a chance to have dinner with President Obama and three other supporters.
They left out "no purchase necessary" and "void where prohibited." But seriously, the winners will be the ones who send in the most UPC symbols cut out of drafts of legislation promoted by and sometimes even passed by the administration.
How much to you have to donate for a shot at 30 minutes in the Lincoln Bedroom?
no, because it will reduce my chances.
||
NMM, SDS edition: Carl Oglesby has shuffled off this mortal coil.
Let me then speak directly to humanist liberals. If my facts are wrong, I will soon be corrected. But if they are right, then you may face a crisis of conscience. Corporatism or humanism: which? For it has come to that. Will you let your dreams be used? Will you be a grudging apologist for the corporate state? Or will you help try to change it - not in the name of this or that blueprint or ism, but in the name of simple human decency and democracy and the vision that wise and brave men saw in the time of our own Revolution?
And if your commitment to human values is unconditional, then disabuse yourselves of the notion that statements will bring change, if only the right statements can be written, or that interviews with the mighty will bring change if only the mighty can be reached, or that marches will bring change if only we can make them massive enough, or that policy proposals will bring change if only we can make them responsible enough.
We are dealing now with a colossus that does not want to be changed. It will not change itself. It will not cooperate with those who want to change it. Those allies of ours in the Government - are they really our allies? If they are, then they don't need advice, they need constituencies; they don't need study groups, they need a movement. And it they are not, then all the more reason for building that movement with the most relentless conviction.
That is from a speech he delivered three years and a day before I was born. Five years longer than the Israelites wandered in the desert, and counting.
|>
||
So has bassist, composer, educator, and writer Graham Collier.
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14. Damn.
Not that I don't regret Oglesby too, but he's been quiet a long time.
Don't ask me. Really.
Illegal smiley.
I'd donate $5 to get Bob a dinner date with Obama.
Fuck that, I'd donate $30 to give him six shots at it. But I doubt if donations from foreign semi-trots pass unnoticed.
If there is one thing the FEC hates, it's people on the fence about Trotsky.
18: But I doubt if donations from foreign semi-trots pass unnoticed.
Hell, I'll do it for you. Bob and Obama: great movie premise (,apo)!
I'm thinking Walter from The Big Lebowski plus... shit, whatshisname is too old to play Obama. I wonder if Dave Chappelle would be up for playing the part straight? It's a ultra hard-edged buddy movie!
...Moonbat Express.
max
[''Wait! What?! What is this racist bullshit?' 'You're the baby-killing fascist! Don't talk to me about race, I lived through Bull Conner! Say, you think that drugstore might have some caffeine pills?'']
You would have to pay me a lot more than 5 dollars. Like a million.
This is one of if not the best salespersons in the world. It would be like sitting at a table with Robin Williams, Eddie Izzard, and Louis C.K. when your integrity, self-esteem, and identity depended on you not cracking a smile.
Does anyone here they wouldn't walk away from a face-to-face with Obama all whirly-eyed? If so, and you will think you weren't had after the meeting, that you were all objective and hard. That's how good they are.
Modesty, no sanity demands that you expect to be fooled by a pro. Don't sit down and play poker with strangers.
Does anyone here they wouldn't walk away from a face-to-face with Obama all whirly-eyed?
What's amazing to me is how good any fairly senior level political appointee is. I've been nearly swayed by political appointees at the level of department Secretary, even though I knew I didn't agree with them. Not that I've talked to any, but I've come out of listening to a couple of speeches all "oh that nice fellow, such good insight, why yes, of course we should build more dams HEY WAIT!!".
How many people think they are a "good judge of character?"
They all suck, completely suck at reading faces and judging lies, suck on the same logarithmic scale that "Experts" suck compared to IMs, who suck compared to GMs who suck compared to Championship contenders who suck compared to Champions. 7 log steps of suckitude.
An "Expert" 2000 rating, knows and will always say that she herself is a fucking terrible chess player.
And we you I are all absolutely horrible at social interactions.
It's incredibly difficult. I know people who were at college with Tony Blair and dismissed him at the time as an insignificant god squad law student. But he (and those like him, such as Obama) can do two things that you can't:
1. They can memorise a briefing note - they have people who write them - on one reading for as long as they need to retain the information, so they know about you, your family, your concerns, your hot buttons before you walk in.
2. They can turn their act on a dime depending on who they're talking to. It's a pure acting skill. A friend of mine once watched Blair record two campaign endorsements in the space of ten minutes. They were entirely different and unconnected, but he didn't miss a beat.
The only way to counter this is to know their tricks in advance and:
1. Train yourself in advance to regard the interview/dinner party as a scientific experiment. Don't be charmed, look for the tricks you're expecting like buzzword bingo. Don't get sucked into the act any more than you'd try to interact with a white rat in a lab.
2. Limit the stuff you want to talk about. Pick ONE topic and interrupt to bring the bastard back to it whenever he tries to move the discussion onto his preferred territory.
3. Go into broken record mode. If the guy starts trying to talk around your question, just ask it again. As many times as you like.
Eventually they'll bring it to a polite end if they're classy or get you thrown out if they're not. Don't give a shit. Concentrate on any quotes worth remembering, and when you leave, leave fast.
What would be the point? You're not going to say anything to him that will affect him. He's not going to say anything to you that will affect you (for longer than the span of the dinner). I doubt the food will be spectacular. This is America, so the wines will be blah.
The $5 isn't even going to a good cause.
And anyone who enters will end up on a list.
And anyone who enters will end up on a list.
Isn't that already the case? I thought it was: everyone who ever volunteered in 2008.
26 gets it exactly right. I once paid $75 for private lunch with Larry Summers, and came away phenomenally underwhelmed. The food wasn't great, he's brilliant but brusque and boring, and there was a two cocktail limit with the lunch, which WTF? After that I swore no more paid dining with political people.
(the $75 went to charity, so it wasn't the exact same thing)
25 brings to mind the question -- how do these people interact with each other, without normal people around to impress?
Isn't that already the case?
Of course it is. The list is how you got the email about the dinner in the first place. And I imagine the lists are pretty finely calibrated. Or did everybody's email say "Will you donate $500 or more today to be automatically entered for a chance to join me for dinner?" (I'm not feeling so great these days about having maxed out in 2008.)
I once paid $75 for private lunch with Larry Summers
THERE ARE IDIOTS.
Good courtroom lawyers have that spellbinding thing goin on too. A guy I worked for, who I straight-up thought was seriously evil, could convince me of anything until I got out of voice range. Persuasive on steroids.
I don't think they're that much less likely to be suckered than the rest of us, though. The freakish skills are acting skills, not critical thinking. Some better -- they're smart people in an atmosphere where persuasion is what's happening -- but not head and shoulders better.
I have never had an interaction with a famous person that was exciting or thrilling; it's kind of inherently a deflating experience. At best you get a sense that they're just ordinary decent human beings.
An "Expert" 2000 rating, knows and will always say that she herself is a fucking terrible chess player.
At my best I had about a 2000 rating, and I would say this is completely accurate, bob. I'm going to have to start taking things you say on other topics more seriously.
I don't want to brag, but I've met both of Nebraska's current senators and I'm not so sure I was overwhelmed. To be fair, I was a baby when I met the new one.
OT for Megan: I'm looking for a personal trainer in Sacramento for a relative in her mid-60s. Needs a good coach and is not fit now. Any thoughts? I can send you an email address if you'd rather.
I've also met Bob T/ft, who was way too thin to keep up the awesome.
I'm probably corrupted by power now.
I've met Max several times. Not a magical experience.
I interned for Frank Lautenberg in college. Also not magical.
I was once awed by a member of Congress, but that was because his time in office was only a pointless interlude in an otherwise well-grounded career in getting undergraduates to move a ball.
Now our Gov BS, he has the gift. Anyway, I'm fully confident that bob would be able to resist the President's charm.
... and thank you so much for bringing up such a painful subject. While you're at it, why don't you give me a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice on it?
I went to middle school with the Sweet Valley Twins. Also not magical.
45: People did express surprise at my having gotten the job despite not being from New Jersey, but then I explained to them that I had gotten it through a friend from college who had previously interned for him. A friend who was from Nebraska.
I'm not sure I've ever met anyone famous-famous. Scientists are never really famous, right? I know one relatively famous one who is insanely charismatic and also has that hyperpersuasive thing going where ten minutes after you talk to him you can't figure out whether any of it made sense but as long as he's in the room everything that comes out of his mouth sounds amazing and true.
Actually, Jerry Brown is a pretty amazing guy to meet in person, but that's because he seems totally insane in a good way.
I can't think of any famous person I've had a conversation with.
Except Kerry Kinney! How could I forget her?
I'd tell anyone to go to Bodytribe (near 21st and J St). The personal training gets spendy, but it works.
She may be intimidated, but she shouldn't be. They are all about the wimminz lifting. I know a few older women being trained there.
If your relative would be more likely to go if she got a gentle introduction from me (we go and sit on the couch and I introduce her to the cats and point out people), I would be happy to do that.
I also know the owner of a Crossfit in Roseville. Great guy. If that's closer to her, that'd also be good (if she's up for Crossfit). I tend to think my gym is a little more femme-y than Crossfit, but I haven't been to any Crossfits, so I shouldn't say that.
(That's me, in the white in the back. A light bar, but the set was to go until losing form, like 30 or 40 reps.)
The closest I've come to a wow-magical-celebrity experience was the time I watched Edward Said swoop into the Columbia English Department. Dude wore a fedora, and his coat seemed to billow. (He was maybe a year and half away from dying at that point and was very sick.) My friends who took classes from him said that the effect only got more intense over time.
I've met one high-profile politician who absolutely does not have the whole spellbinding charmer actor charisma thing going on at all. I've met another high-profile politician who has a reputation for not having that reality distoring charisma thing and, sure, I can kind of see that, but he's pretty intense in person.
I can't say I've met anyone famous-famous who bowled me over with charisma, and of course famous-famous is relative. I'm not sure academics count, and even if they did, they're not trying to persuade you of anything in a manipulative way: that is not their chief interest.
I have once or twice known someone terribly appealing/charismatic -- in the sense that you, and everyone, really enjoyed knowing this person, and found spending time with him/her just really nice, in a good way -- and my impression was that it came naturally.
I've had conversations with famous scientists (only one who's famous outside of science) and, yeah, not really the same.
All depends what youmean by meet and what you mean by famous. A friend of mine once went to the toilet at a gig and found Ringo Starr in there. Ringo said something like "Beer's pretty crap here", zipped up and left. Meaningful encounter?
Putting yourself to the grief of taking on senior politicians is obviously only worth it if you have a specific objective in doing so. Otherwise you're a tourist and your money would be better spent going to the Grand Canyon.
57: A friend of mine was a research assistant for him, and did not have good things to say, unfortunately, and that appeared to be the consensus among grad students similarly situated. This would have been a number of years before he was close to dying, though.
This is getting uncomfortably close to name-dropping behavior for me, though.
Thanks Megan! You and this particular relative would have a lot to talk about and be good connections, so maybe I'll take you up on the offer. Shes definitely not up for Crossfit.
Howard Metzenbaum came over a few times for shabbat dinner when I was growing up. As did John Glenn (though only once). The rumpled Jew was more impressive than the clean Marine, but neither one knocked my socks off, and I was just a kid. I used to work for David Boren, who had the Plains populist thing going on. It was hard to say no to him, for sure, but not because he was persuasive. More because he was reputed to hold grudges, and he had all the power.
I used to interact with lots of and lots of famous musicians at the job I had immediately before going to graduate school, but as I think I've said before, being famous in one field (the arts) doesn't translate into another (persuasion) in my experience, at least. I also grew up with a few people who later became somewhat famous (in a Kerri Kenney) kind of way. None of them could have sold me ice on hot day.
That said, my former boss, who was pretty famous as a world-class music biz negotiator, met Bill Clinton and said of the president that everyone in the room wanted to fuck him. I met Clinton myself once, but it wasn't for long enough to gauge his fuckability.
I guess some people have that gift -- whatever it is -- and some people don't.
I met Steve Wozniak once. I don't know that he was charming, but he gave me ten dollars for absolutely no reason.
In my field it seems like the star scientists are either young people who are relentless self-promoters with huge smiles and intense stares, or older people who achieved prominence semi-randomly and seem to be semi-insane.
61.1: Heh. I think the only time I actually babbled a bit at a famous person was upon selling a book over the 'phone to Alex/ander C/ockburn. Not really that famous, right? And yet there I was, blurting out "Would you be the Alex Co/ckburn who writes for The Nation, and Counter/punch, along with your brother? I've followed your work!"
He was willing to chat for a bit, in the course of which he said something like "The Nation is rather off these days, don't you think? It's become a bit tiresome." Oh. Well. You've caught me up short there. I ... know what you mean. Er.
65. Good thing it wasn't Jobs - he'd have robbed you of $10.
I can report that, in person, George Clooney is quite drunk.
Now I'm trying to figure out who the Dutch Cookie's boss could have been.
This is becoming kind of funny, actually. Who is more famous? A bit-time music exec, a wicked famous (relatively) academic .. or Ringo Starr?
70: not I/rving A/zoff, if that's what your thinking.
Why are you protecting a few politicians and a scientist, Tweets?
I'm not sure I've ever met anyone famous-famous. Scientists are never really famous, right?
Einstein was pretty famous.
I had lunch with Sam Brownback in... 2005? somewhere around there... and, anway, he definitely did not give me any whirly-eyes.
I'm not sure academics count, and even if they did, they're not trying to persuade you of anything in a manipulative way: that is not their chief interest.
Depends on the academic.
76: I would have said that the poison dwarf was very famous. Anyway, here's your big clue: I worked in Vancouver not LA.
I talked to Weasel Walter a couple of times.
He seemed like a pretty ordinary dude.
I had no idea the poison dwarf ever had offices in Vancouver.
Does it violate the sanctity of off-blog communications to repeat that as a wee lad, Biohazard was dandled by Harry Truman? Maybe, but I'll take my chances.
I met Obama at a small breakfast fundraiser during his Senate run. He wasn't very exciting in a small room.
My favorite ever famous-person interaction was with Daryl Hannah, who I had to accompany around the working-class East Hollywood neighborhood as she test-drove my boss's hydrogen fuel cell car between City Hall and an event at City College. "I go to these alternative-energy events, and everyone there knows enough about alternative energy, they don't need to hear a speech from me," she said. "So I rap." And she did.
77: True, I imagine. I can't think of examples, though.
dandled
Is this anything like "diddled"?
Further to 82: Maybe Robert Nozick. I guess any somewhat, sort of, popularizer might lean in that direction.
74: I'm not; it would be a little too anonymity-puncturing for me to discuss who they are.
Isn't Cornel West pretty famous? Also Carl Sagan (rip), Stephen Hawking, Niall Ferguson, Paul Krugman, Drew Gilpin Faust, Skip Gates, Greg Mankiw, Elizabeth Warren, and, um, probably some other people too.
Drew Faust seems like the textbook definition of "famous for an academic". Chomsky, Minsky, Pinker?
I used to work with a guy who's mind-blowingly famous if you design integrated circuits.
Degrees of separation are a little weird. I was surprised that my new boss has a blurb from Bill Clinton on the cover of her soon-to-be-released book.
And another of the blurbs is from Larry Summers, which cracks me up.
Oh hey, the father of one of my elementary school classmates is still in your department. He's pretty famous for a scientist.
"famous for an academic"
Maybe. Probably, I guess. But President of Harvard is a pretty big deal, I think.
91: it certainly seems like the kind of random-ass book he was always known to be reading.
Drew Faust seems like the textbook definition of "famous for an academic".
I'd say so. Chomsky is famous for a leftist. Stephen Jay Gould? Probably just famous for an egghead.
I'll go with Cornel West and Carl Sagan as famous outright.
"Eel swims up man's penis, has to be surgically removed"
I'm sure I've mentioned before going to a PTA thing at Sen. Kennedy's house (his granddaughter was in my son's class). Two or three years running. One year, I was standing next to him whilst he talked a little smack with Sen. Clinton about the ALCS game then in progress, but really got to talk with him the next year. The experience left me quite willing to vote for the man.
I think I'm going to need a definition of terms. If Chomsky isn't famous-famous, I don't think I know what famous means.
President of Harvard is a pretty big deal, I think.
? Is he Ringo Starr? I think not. How many people have heard of Derek Bok?
President of Harvard is not a he, either.
If Ringo Starr is your measuring stick for famous, you'd have to leave out Jesus.
102: Oh. Sorry. But there you go.
100: Well, I think he's famous-famous, but I have a feeling not that many people know who he is.
Drew Faust is Harvard's president, parsi. And I think a great many people have heard of Derek Bok, though honestly, he was among the least (in)famous presidents of Harvard in recent years. Again, I think I'm not understanding how we're defining famous here. Likely to be on the cover of People? Then no, Drew Faust isn't famous. Likely to be able to get tickets to a Lakers* game on short notice? Then yes, she is. But maybe that's a measure of power. Hmm.
* Chosen intentionally, as a measure of her fame's reach.
102: Not currently, no.
That said, I don't think Faust is even close to famous, not even by academic standards.
104: but parsi, you don't know who Ryan Gosling is, and I promise you that he's really famous. Which is to say, almost everyone has blind spots in their knowledge. But really, I have no adequate definition of famous -- where did Halford go? he'd know -- so I'm just flailing around here.
Drew Faust courtside at the Staples Center, on her feet screaming at the ref. Total staple of the telecasts. She used to sit with Jack Nicholson but they have a beef.
No way Drew Faust gets courtside on short notice. No way.
I have no adequate definition of famous
Debbie Gibson is the bottom rung of "fame."
I had dinner with Sir John Compton. One of the more impressive people I've ever met, even if not exactly famous in the US.
I think I'm going to need a definition of terms.
"Famous" means your name and/or face is recognizable by greater than 18% of the U.S. population.
I embarrassed myself talking to a semi-famous academic whose visiting talk I attended some years ago. Minor stuff, but I still hope I was just one of many people who asked dumb questions after a talk at one of the many places where talks were given.
Debbie Gibson is the bottom rung of "fame."
I was listening to some Debbie Gibson the other day. Her music hasn't held up well.
I don't think Faust is even close to famous, not even by academic standards.
And now I really have no idea how we're defining famous. Because seriously, Drew Faust is really, really, really famous by academic standards: very highly regarded in her field, work that's been well reviewed in popular media, and the president of Harvard.
109: c'mon, you think Bob Iger doesn't want his kids at Harvard?
112 is exactly what I said in 110. Proof is here.
Oh, Louis Menand: famous academic.
No way Drew Faust gets courtside on short notice. No way.
Wait! I didn't say courtside! I mean, who gets courtside on short notice? Seriously, who? Not even Irving Azoff, I don't think.
Oh, Louis Menand: famous academic.
I had dinner with him once. I can't remember if we agreed that SF/J sux.
Ramachandran: definitely academic-famous as opposed to famous-famous.
Aha! Oliver Sacks: pretty much famous-famous.
IME, he doesn't quite make one whirly-eyed, but he is rather impressive in person nonetheless.
Because seriously, Drew Faust is really, really, really famous by academic standards
She's famous among acadamedics, but not famou s FIor an academediac. Basially, the only academics who are really famous by famous (FAME-MOOSE) standards a re people who write books that get noticed in pop culture. And Einstein. So, Gould, Pinker, that one historian. etc.
I find it hard to see Faust as famous (outside of history). Well, the Faust we're talking about. University presidents are in a position to reap a lot of the benefits that famous people can get, but that's not the same.
Bok might be more famous to the general reading public because he wrote about higher ed.
FAME-MOOSE
I just wanted to see it again. Hello, FAME-MOOSE. Hello.
people who write books that get noticed in pop culture
Dan Dennett: famous?
124: ah, that's fair enough. And probably right, too. As I think about it, I bet that if I asked my parents who Drew Faust is, they'd have no idea. But if I asked them who Margaret Mead was, they'd know immediately. Margaret Mead = famous.
128: huh, that's an interesting one. Maybe?
And probably right, too.
Yeah, I think the FAME-MOOSE is the right metric.
Azoff probay does get courtside short notice, b/c even Dr. Buss doesn't want to deal with him.
My God! That's FAME-MOOSE turd pie!
127 and 131 in tandem have given me the giggles.
And now I really have no idea how we're defining famous. Because seriously, Drew Faust is really, really, really famous by academic standards: very highly regarded in her field, work that's been well reviewed in popular media, and the president of Harvard.
And yet definitely less famous to non-academics than Larry Summers was during his tenure in the position. And I, an academic but not a historian, had never heard of her before she got the job. I think she might be just really famous by academic standards, rather than really, really, really famous.
I'm really just taking famous-famous to mean "known by a very large number of people." The president of Harvard doesn't cut it; it takes widespread celebrity, to such a degree that your name trickles down.
But that's famous-famous. Plain old famous is going to differ by area of interest.
121: Oliver Sacks is good. Famous-famous.
I'm still not seeing Pinker as famous-famous. I mentioned him to a fellow bookseller a few months ago, and he'd never heard of him. This was not an ill-read bookdealer.
This was not an ill-read bookdealer.
Maybe he reads a lot of books, but if he hadn't heard of Pinker, I have a hard time believing he reads about current books.
I am at a bar. Should I survey name recognition on Drew Faust? I'll be stunned if I get even one affirmative response.
Wafer you ivory tower madman, I love that you think of all those people as famous but man alive is the reality depressing.
Dan Dennett: famous?
I also had dinner with him once and man that did not go so hot.
No, he doesn't read about current books particularly.
140: I have no idea and I've heard of the rest of the names on this thread (except the dwarf).
I'm not positive I'd recognize Ringo Starr if I passed him on the street.
Jesus, on the other hand...
141: I've since backed off and accepted the realities of the FAME-MOOSE, with its rack y-e-a-b-i-g, metric. I'm now thinking only Einstein, Margaret Mead, Stephen Hawking, and maybe a few others are FAME-MOOSE, rather than just academic-famous or, even smaller time, famous among academics.
Mothers of Invention is pretty famous fantastic. McPherson is probably a more familiar name to the non-academic Civil War reading-about public, though.
Hey Megan, do you have an internet appropriate email? Relative has decided to take you up on the offer.
If you are a Supreme Court justice and you want to exit a plane by the inflatable slide, they say OK and then think of a way to justify it later.
141: also, wait, there are gradations of fame, right? I mean, there's Jack Nicholson and then there's that one dude from that one show. He's pretty famous, I guess, but not really FAME-MOOSE. And I wonder if Paul Krugman is as famous as that dude -- if you see what I mean.
Also, I never heard of the guy in 143.
Maybe FAME-MOOSE could be defined as equal to or greater than the number of americans who answer yes to "have you personally seen or felt the presence of a ghost" which IIRC is usually around 20 percent.
I find it hard to see Faust as famous (outside of history).
As far as I can recall, I had never heard or read the name Drew Faust before this thread.
Those are probably lots of different ghosts.
153: Paul Krugman is more famous than a ghost, you fucking racist.
I doubt any of the hyper-educated lawyers in my office have heard of Dennett, and aside from thise who went to Harvard, of Drew Faust either. So I'm going with "not famous."
Generally, this one of those areas where I can't talk, which ironically makes it seem as if I have better stories than I do, though I do have stories.
OK, I've got one-- there's a painter whose images I remember (glossy realistic oils of lurid closeups of a totterring high heel, a water-misted cheek, lips biting a pearl). She's sort of Lisa Yuskavage as done by Malcolm Morley. I can't remember her name. Is she famous, and does anyone here know who I'm thinking of? driving me nuts, internet is useless for this, since I didn't generate tagged bookmarks.
I don't think any of the academics I've met are famous (without qualifiers). Including the Pulitzer and MacArthur winners.
158: More people I never heard of.
I wonder how many people have heard of Edward Bok.
If famous-famous as we're defining it -- to cover Ringo Starr, Barack Obama, and Jack Nicholson -- is Fame2, then Paul Krugman is like Fame0. But my scale is off. I mean Krugman is two notches below. Maybe three.
I've just attempted a scale of 1 to 5, with representative examples attached to each level, and found myself at a loss. It's really difficult to judge who other people find really famous, i.e. have actually heard of.
I mean, dudes and dudettes, everyone knows who Martha Stewart is, right? Right?
Oh good. I'd be happy to show her the place.
Maybe the email under my name still works.
Is she ready to lift in general? Has she read Krista's site? Do I have to persuade her about that in addition to lifting specifically at my gym?
Probably; I've emphasized lifting but I dont know if its sunk in. I'll send an email right now. Let me know if you don't get it.
154
As far as I can recall, I had never heard or read the name Drew Faust before this thread.
Ditto.
Edward Bok is like the Bok of the Boks.
(I think I'm in the right thread now.)
167: I don't know who Cecilia Bok is. You mean Sissila?
Actually I have heard of Edward Bok, though. Just the name, not particularly clear on who he is. Without googling, that is.
Nope, didn't get your email yet. Perhaps this one?
Glad she's already considered lifting.
Just sent. Let me know either way.
170: Editor of Ladies Home Journal, autobiography was fairly well-known (in its time). Also, grandfather of Derek Bok.
Then there are the lesser known siblings, Spring and Ree.
And the Chinese side of the family: the Chois.
173: Ah. Ah! Editor of Ladies Home Journal ... I have an interest in what people were doing in women's magazines during a certain era.
He's a distinguished-looking gentleman, I see. And his editorship of the Journal goes back very early. Interesting.
From the wikipedia article on Edward Bok:
Bok is credited with coining the term living room as the name for room of a house that was commonly called a parlor or drawing room. This room had traditionally been used only on Sundays or for formal occasions such as the displaying of deceased family members before burial. Bok believed it was foolish to create an expensively furnished room that was rarely used, and promoted the new name to encourage families to use the room in their daily lives.
I find this kind of thing pretty fascinating. The architecture of daily life, the way building patterns changed accordingly.
25 brings to mind the question -- how do these people interact with each other, without normal people around to impress?
I had the opportunity to spend a considerable amount of private time with a pretty successful politician. They do spend time discussing tricks of the trade...what kind of compromises they can make and which they can't, etc. (In normal human terms, how to be dishonest...although I think a prerequisite for political success is adopting a very different view of the nature of dishonesty). Also, gossip on what other politicians are up and down, media buys and other such technical details. Shop talk, like everybody.
Not every successful politician is obviously charismatic, but they all have something that got them there. Most of the non-charismatic ones are consumate inside operators (like Baucus). A few were just lucky (Mary Bono Mack?).
In other politician-related news, in person Liz Warren has electric intensity and charisma. Check her out, Massachusetts-people. Unfortunate she's up against such a highly skilled politician in Brown.
170.1: Yes, thanks for making that explicit.
I have to admit I was mainly aware of Bok as an ancestor of Hilzoy.
180: Likewise, if you substitute "mainly" with "exclusively". How famous can these people be? They don't even have blogs.
Other than faculty when I was in college, I suppose the most famous people I've met are Stephen Jay Gould, Umberto Eco and Gabriel Byrne. Also Gary Hart. They were none of them quite trailing clouds of glory, I must say; the supermodel Helena Christensen was very pretty though. And I met a very nice former Miss Universe once.
I also had dinner with him once and man that did not go so hot.
What went wrong?
And yet definitely less famous to non-academics than Larry Summers was during his tenure in the position. And I, an academic but not a historian, had never heard of her before she got the job. I think she might be just really famous by academic standards, rather than really, really, really famous.
I suspect so. I have no idea who she is.
I've since backed off and accepted the realities of the FAME-MOOSE, with its rack y-e-a-b-i-g, metric. I'm now thinking only Einstein, Margaret Mead, Stephen Hawking, and maybe a few others are FAME-MOOSE, rather than just academic-famous or, even smaller time, famous among academics.
Brian Cox is pretty famous in the UK, because he's on TV all the time. I've met him. I'd also say Craig Venter is pretty famous. Arguably not an academic, though he has published I think.
Einstein and Mead are dead. If you're going with famous scientists from history, you have to start with Newton and Darwin. And Galileo.
I'm very famous, and I dine alone all the time.
Einstein and Mead are dead.
Shit. Very recently I hope.
158: I don't, though I have met Lisa Yuskavage a few times. If they're of equal renown, art-world famous, but not actually famous.
Jeff Sachs: famous?
I used to vaguely know Maurice Bishop, whose murder precipitated the US invasion of Grenada. He wasn't remotely famous when I met him, became sort of famous in rather specialised circles for a few years and is now almost completely forgotten.
Are there any genuinely famous living artists?
Jasper Johns? Jeff Koons? Damien Hirst?
Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I don't think any of those are close to being widely recognizable names in the U.S.
I didn't even realize Jasper Johns was still alive, but I would think he's genuinely famous.
192 is depressing.
Jasper Johns was on the Simpsons, so I think he might qualify.
Pictures aren't art. That's craft.
191: Banksy and Damien Hirst, I'd say. The criterion I'd use is that an average person on the street has a pretty good chance of correctly identifying them from their most famous work (ie "here's a dead sheep in a tank/ weakly comic stencilled graffito, do you know who did it?") or vice versa ("can you describe a work of art by Damien Hirst?") I doubt the average person could correctly ID a Jasper Johns.
Edward Bok? Are you kidding us?
has a pretty good chance of correctly identifying them from their most famous work
By that standard, Andres Serrano and Karen Finley may be the most famous living artists.
198: I'm pretty sure there's an across-the-pond difference here.
I suspect there's quite a strong transatlantic split in Jasper Johns's fame.
I initially misread the last word of 201 as "face" and was like "damn, brutal."
201: And I suspect the same is true of Damien Hirst and Banksy.
201: And even more so in Banksy's.
here's a dead sheep in a tank
This molecular gastronomy trend has gone too far.
And honestly if we're talking about whether the "average person could correctly ID" something I doubt we're going to get much further than the Mona Lisa.
My brother shook Bush the Lesser's hand once.
And what about Ai Wei Wei? He's famous like John Stamos.
OT: Overhearing a guy saying he is a Teamster and that the teachers' union is stealing from the public. I have no idea how common this is because I don't really see many Teamsters.
55: Your *gym* has cats? Playing around the free weights?
Recently I was able to observe a former French prime minister for several days. She (which identifies her uniquely but doesn't googlify the thread) has the reputation of being an awe-inspiring professional bitch, but she very nicely kept the claws in the up and locked position. Perhaps because I fixed her computer.
I spent a lot of time trying to draw her out about the 1991 Gulf war but we mostly talked about German history, and how her foreign minister got away with so much because he constantly leaked to the papers and they protected him in return.
I am pretty sure I have never met anyone famous. A thousand years ago I got advice on my love life from the WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS COUNTERTENOR so yeah I don't think that counts, and that was probably my best shot at entering this comment thread.
I mean I've been introduced to one or two fameese, but we didn't, you know, hang. I got to shake hands with Wallace Shawn which was in fact exciting.
I wonder what percentage of the people shaking hands with Mr. Shawn say "Inconceivable."
I have socialized a tiny bit with Paulina Poriskova. Very attractive, and astonishingly so when she's really intending to be. (She was a bridesmaid at a friend's wedding. Dressed in a simple flowered sundress, and keeping it very low key so as to keep focus on the bride. Partway through the reception, though, she wanted to get people out on the dance floor for the Hora or something, and turned the charisma up, and was just remarkable.)
Mind you, dining the local party branch was *interesting*, both for the highly practised work-the-room exercise and for the audience's fawning....
210: Last name starts with D countertenor? Or? The late 90s/early aughts was really all about the countertenor.
Weirdest famous person "socializing": Sitting shiva with a famous director (not Spielberg famous though).
WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS COUNTERTENOR
Oh, hey. I saw that dude sing, I think. He hit a lot of pretty high notes.
For recognizable art works by living artists I might suggest Peter Max and Leroy Neiman. Maybe sports fans only for the latter and although they would recognize his work by being by *that* guy, they might not recall the name--I drew a blank at first when i tried to remember it). Maybe Christo.
Oh, or not if it's whoever is mentioned in 214. Dude I'm thinking of has a last name beginning with S.
210 Andreas Scholl?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRe16N_UziY
amazing
219: Yeah it is certainly S or D or *conceivably* M. I think.
By that standard, Andres Serrano and Karen Finley may be the most famous living artists.
I dunno; a lot of people have probably heard of Piss Christ, but how many of them could name the artist? Or, when asked "who is Andres Serrano", could answer correctly?
No doubt there is a transatlantic split here.
I shared an elevator with Shimon Peres a few times.
I have socialized a tiny bit with Paulina Poriskova
It's hard to claim too much familiarity with someone when you don't know how to spell their name.
I'd consider Jeff Koons to be genuinely famous, damn him.
I was going to say the Japanese anime-style artist who did the Louis Vuitton collaboration, but my blanking on his name would seem to disqualify him...
222: Not a large transatlantic split in those cases. I'm pretty certain less than one percent of U.S. adults could name Andres Serrano or Karen Finley.
I represented Donald Kn/uth once, had several lengthy phone conversations unrelated to his occupation. I found out a decade later that he was really really famous in a community of which I was not a part.
225: Same as the famous Japanese author, right? (Murakami. Takashi, not Haruki.)
Similarly, I considered the elephant dung-Madonna African painter, but I realized he couldn't be famous, because I had to use google to remember that his name is Chris Ofili.
Same as the famous Japanese author, right?
Right, right. I was thinking that I had mixed up the two names because, you know, they're all alike.
Anselm Kiefer? Not as famous as Hirst or Koons, definitely.
216: I had blissfully forgotten about Leroy Neiman, but was reminded of him when I caught a bit of Top Secret recently. At one point when the Nazis aren't getting anywhere in a brutal interrogation one asks whether they should bring out the Leroy Neiman paintings, and the other says no, they can't violate the Geneva Convention.
226: The chocolate-covered boobs lady?
because, you know, they're all alike.
Japanese names have a sort of modular structure that confuses the hell out of me. Like, I know two people whose names are of the form (changing this slightly for no really good reason) Fumi* Mura* and I'm like "wait, is that Fuminobu Murakami or Fuminobu Murayama or Fumihiro Murakami or..." I think I mentally index things by their initial sounds or something, and it totally fails on these kinds of names.
Leroy Neiman brings me pain. My childhood dentists's office was filled with various Neiman musings on Joe Fucking Namath.
Richard Serra has had a fair amount of notoriety, although the Tilted Arc controversy was a long time ago.
Everybody remembers chocolate breasts.
famous living artists
Dale Chihuly (though Lino Tagliopietra is basically unknown). Maya Lin. Botero. Maybe David Hockney?
I'm thinking Christo may be the most famous of the artists we've come up with. His projects are prominent enough, that it seems that a lot of people who live around where he's set them up would know who he was.
Well...next to Thomas Kinkade, of course.
David Hockney is pretty fucking famous. Or rather, as famous as Christo, certainly. I think? Koons and Hirst are still maybe more famous.
I'm pretty certain less than one percent of U.S. adults could name Andres Serrano or Karen Finley.
I'd bet higher than 1%, though probably not by much. I don't think either of them are famous per se, but among *living* artists I'd be surprised to see anybody else register higher (aside from Thomas Kinkade, though I don't know what his most famous work would be). An awful lot of people have no familiarity with the art world in any form except when the Catholic League/GOP pick a new poster boy for obscenity or heresy.
Wow, Leroy Neiman is really awful.
Chuck Close!
I would be surprised if the average college-educated person could name more than three or four famous living artists.
Maybe Banksey, Koons, Hirst, and Kinkade. Maybe.
237: if we're going to call Serra (or really any of these other artists, including LeRoy Nieman) famous, then Drew Faust is bigger than Kim Kardashian and Lindsay Lohan combined. Faust's agent, manager, and pr people are going to be so pleased.
I have no idea who David Hockney is. Or Hirst. I know how Serrano is for the reasons Apo mentions.
Edward Bok? Are you kidding us?
He is kidding us.
I used to walk past this Richard Serra thing every day. Never understood what the Isaiah Berlin reference had to do with anything.
Also, I love the idea that anyone -- I mean anyone -- would know who Maya Lin is. Really, everyone seems to be forgetting this morning that we're talking FAME-MOOSE here, not famous among a tiny, oddball portion of the blog-reading public.
That is, I doubt my right wing, USAF-veteran uncle could name a single work by Jasper Johns or David Hockney, or even tell you what style they work in. But because he faithfully listens to Rush Limbaugh, I have personally heard him express outrage about Karen Finley getting his hard-earned tax dollars to shove yams up her ass (which didn't actually happen, but still).
But yeah, Christo is probably the best answer.
Also, I love the idea that anyone -- I mean anyone -- would know who Maya Lin is.
She's the answer to a NYT crossword question about twice a week.
253: what's the problem? I have to spend my hard-earned dollars to get someone to shove yams up my ass.
221 et al: Yeah, D. Maybe I should downgrade him to America's most famous countertenor, though S seems to me to have come onto the scene later, after D made it less dorky and weird to be a countertenor!
After shaking Wallace Shawn's hand, I went to an event in Stamford (why?) where they showed My Dinner With Andre and Shawn signed copies of his book and answered questions and, well, basically asked him something he answered, however politely, with some variant of "You know nothing of my work," like in Annie Hall but without the plant.
255: I think I've said before that I hate crossword puzzles. I'll thank you for not mentioning them again. (Though, I do think that's -- the NYT crossword -- is an interesting measure of fame. Not a good measure, mind you, but an interesting one.)
256: Surely you could find somebody on Craigslist who'd pay *you* to shove yams up your ass.
I guess everyone knows who Yoko Ono is, but not that she is (was? is?) an artist. The retrospective at the Japan Society 10 years ago was amazing.
It's weighted toward people with useful names -- Maya Lin is going to show up more often than more famous people, because 'Lin' is the kind of thing that shows up spontaneously when you make a puzzle. See also Hawai'ian goose, Anglo-Saxon peasant, Irish language.
I think it's both really weird and kind of great that Brian Cox is famous. Sounds like he's more famous among the British general public than among physicists.
I decided to resolve this scientifically.
"Thomas Kinkade" got 4,530, 000 google hits.
"David Hockey" got 3,810,000 google hits.
"Jeff Koons" got 2,040,000 google hits.
"Jasper Johns" got 1,140,000 google hits.
"Dale Chihuly" got 747, 000 google hits.
"Leroy Neiman" got 493.000 google hits.
This technique won't work for "Christo".
I was humiliated before a famous-for-opera bass-baritone*. I mean, I wasn't even there, but something I said to someone who knew him became a running joke between them. I think I owe you all $5.
(SR of course.)
264: Christo Jeanne-Claude gets 660,000 google hits, which at least sets a lower bound.
259: Also, a sweet potato is pretty much the same thing as a yam. Don't be too narrow in your search terms.
There's Patrick Nagel, Ralph Steadman, Chris Ware, Charles Burns when art made for reproduction is included.
Stewart Pearson is quite good, but not famous. I like Eric Fischl a lot, but he's widely derided. David Lenz also does very nice portraits.
I know the thread has moved on, but, seriously, Drew Faust and Derek Bok? Y'all are adorable up there in your ivory tower.
My brother shook Bush the Lesser's hand once.
My brother once refused a handshake offered by Jimmy Carter. He's very proud of that.
Maya Lin was really Time-magazine famous when the memorial was built. Maybe you're younger than I am...
I would be surprised if the average person couldn't name three living visual artists, though we won't all name the same ones. Less Fame-Moose, more attachment to the style we follow, art for the social web. As long as the artists can interpollinate, seems good to me. I was getting really tired of the bourgeois playing shock the bourgeoisie even before it became the standard for hipster donut shops.
Well, there are yams and then there are yams. I don't think whole true yams could successfully be inserted in any orifice.
Ed Hardy: more or less famous than Thomas Kinkade?
I'm pretty sure Von is trying to make Faust famous with repeated mentions on the Internets.
265 I love SR! I'd love to be the source of something he mocks with friends!
Wow, I really should do some work sometime today.
270: There's a photo of me shaking Bill Clinton's hand in which I am making a face as though I were being required to handle a dead and offensively odiferous fish. I didn't feel the slightest desire to fuck him, although otherwise sensible people I know reported feeling his charisma (IYKWIMAITYD).
Google hits aren't the right way to do it. Gerhard Richter gets 3.3M (deserves more attention, but definitely less famous in the US than Chihuly, who is a well-known name among the bourgeousie).
For famous living artists, yeah, I'd think Christo is about it. As noted, people might know about Piss Christ, but not the artist's name.
If the criterion is really identification by the average person on the street, and if we're not restricted to living artists, we'd be in the area of, say, The Scream or Monet's waterlilies. I'm doubting many people could come up with the name Munch; they might know Monet. People definitely know Norman Rockwell, and American Gothic, though not the artist's name.
Let's not forget that, in the US at least, something like 30% of people can't even name the current Vice-President.
if we're going to call Serra (or really any of these other artists, including LeRoy Nieman) famous, then Drew Faust is bigger than Kim Kardashian and Lindsay Lohan combined. Faust's agent, manager, and pr people are going to be so pleased.
Richard Serra: 1,090,000 hits
Drew Gilpin Faust (+ Drew Faust): 263,000 hits
Science!
268: I'm thinking R. Crumb is more famous than any of these.
If you want to go further, Matt Groening.
I don't know that Bill Watterson is that famous a name, but I think almost everyone is familar with his work.
NYT crossword pop culture references are so damn dated; there's some new stuff but with a distinct tin-ear quality. Once they ran one from a college student and I could tell the difference immediately.
(Sorry, VW. Not really.)
258: I'll thank you for not mentioning them again.
Who elected you thread Nazi? But you seem to have taken to the role quite well. And 269 is totally fucking right.
Yeah, I really don't even know if half of Americans can recognize Guernica, and most of the ones who can can't pronounce it.
"Gerhard Richter" -- that's just a very common German name, right?
281. Agree with all of these, and Watterson is a really good example, since he resists licensing and is famous both for his own good work as well as it's reflection in a now iconic unlicensed image.
Gerhard Richter
How many copies did Daydream Nation sell?
Drew Faust isn't even the most famous Drew trying to milk a famous last name for all its worth.
And Manute Bol could totally dunk on Derek Bok.
But they both do show up in crosswords, so there's that.
283: Stormcrow is famously indignant.
Also that guy who does the pictures of the dogs. William Wegman.
I think it's both really weird and kind of great that Brian Cox is famous. Sounds like he's more famous among the British general public than among physicists.
Almost certainly. For physicists outside the UK. See also Marcus du Sautoy and mathematicians, although his job is basically to be a famous mathematician.
Having said that, I suspect Cox is also fairly well known within CERN.
I love Gerhardt Richter and Anselm Kiefer so much more than I do Chihuly.
I heard of Brian Cox for the first time when he was on the Colbert Report a month or so ago. He looks like he has had a massive amount of plastic surgery.
Thanks, Easter Bunny! Bok bok!
You know who else is famous, in the sense that I'd be a little wowed to meet and have dinner with him or her (to return to the OP)? Jon Stewart.
I can't say I'd heard of Brian Cox.
There's Patrick Nagel, Ralph Steadman, Chris Ware, Charles Burns when art made for reproduction is included.
Stewart Pearson is quite good, but not famous. I like Eric Fischl a lot, but he's widely derided. David Lenz also does very nice portraits.
Viewing myself as the typical American, I can report that I have heard of one of these people.
That is, I doubt my right wing, USAF-veteran uncle could name a single work by Jasper Johns or David Hockney, or even tell you what style they work in. But because he faithfully listens to Rush Limbaugh, I have personally heard him express outrage about Karen Finley getting his hard-earned tax dollars to shove yams up her ass (which didn't actually happen, but still).
Jasper Johns: Monochrome American flags.
David Hockney: Swimming pools.
Karen Finley: Isn't she that spoken-word artist who collaborated with the Mekons?
I can report that I have heard of one of these people
I know which one it is.
Honestly, this is a worthwhile exercise in reality-checking.
Anyone met someone who'd qualify as not just famous, but IN-fame-MOOSE?
If crossword puzzles are the measure, then "Ulee's Gold" was the most famous movie of all time.
Fame is kinda a nebulous concept, but goddamn was Keith Haring an impressive business enterprise for a while.
305 -- yes, by the standards of this place anyway.
306: My kids were taught about Haring as an important artist in grade school, which seems weird to me. I did get some street cred with "Back in the eighties, I knew Haring as 'the guy who draws in chalk on the black panels in the subways."
Edward Bok? Are you kidding us?
Given that no claim was made about him, but merely a question originating in a conversation that involved the mention of another Bok, uh, maybe?
308: When you drive south down the Harlem River Drive (or maybe it's the FDR at that point) you can see that one of Haring's stick-figure dudes still covers an entire handball wall (it's entirely caged so no one can get at it).
306: Mel Ott--world's most famous baseball player.
Omoo: Most famous Melville novel!
Agar: Most famous plant-based gelatin!
not just famous, but IN-fame-MOOSE?
I'm a degree of separation removed, but I work with a guy who had dinner with Monica Lewinsky while she was at the London School of Economics a few years ago.
"Gerhard Richter" -- that's just a very common German name, right?
Most famous architect: Maya Lin? Or I.M. Pei?
I don't think I've ever heard of Thomas Kinkade outside of this blog. Probably seen his work show up somewhere though (but maybe also on blogs).
306.1 -- The director of that movie is married to my mom's 3d cousin.
On the in-fame side, I've mentioned before that my mom's best friend from high school worked for GHWB for a number of years.
316: Renzo Piano. (Not really. I just like saying Renzo Piano.)
When I was trying last night to think of the most famous people I had met, I was only thinking along the lines of academics, politicians, and movie stars.
But duh, chess players! Viswanathan Anand is clearly the most famous person I've met. He is as famous in India as the most famous of sports stars in the U.S. Gary Kasparov is the most famous person I've talked to on the phone.
Pretty much just famous rather than infamous for me, unless JPod counts.
I did have lunch at the next table over from Junior Gotti one day while I was on jury duty and he was on trial.
I know our atty general. That counts as infamous, right??
Most famous architect: Maya Lin? Or I.M. Pei?
Not over here, that's for sure. Probably Foster or Rogers. Maybe Piano.
Obviously this is living architects - otherwise it would be Lloyd Wright or Le Corbusier.
Most famous architect: Maya Lin? Or I.M. Pei?
The students in my classes often do not know who Le Corbusier is. These are Ivy League students who have the only Corbusier building in North America on their campus. And okay, so he's not alive, but still, I don't think it bodes well for name recognition of architects among the general population.
These are Ivy League students who have the only Corbusier building in North America on their campus.
To be fair, it's a pretty crappy Corbusier building.
323-324: I was just continuing the Times crossword fame discussion.
Viewing myself as the typical American, I can report that I have heard of one of these people.
I haven't heard of any of them. Or most of the artists mentioned on this thread. I've heard of Christo, Banksy, Jasper Johns, a few of the people famous mostly for the political outrage a work or two generated (but hadn't heard of Finley).
I probably would have thought Maya Lin and I.M. Pei were famous back when I was younger and had seen documentaries about them (possibly in school), but now I'd guess they were only famous in the "famous for" sense.
If you want to study fame with search hits, it might be better to choose a media database like the Lexis Nexis (so called) "major newspapers" or something like that. Presumably someone has actually done this sort of thing.
For real, I'd say Frank Gehry among living architects.
Actually, Michael Graves probably has greater name recognition, but that's for his Target products, not his architecture.
Maybe if everybody spits this stuff out now, we can get it over with. I knew several now-famous-ish fellow students in college (the now Sec'ty of Education, a TV star, a maker of MTV-style videos for Madonna, a writer for The Simpsons), and took courses with, sometimes had coffee with, famous even then academics. While in grad school I commiserated with John Rawls over the death of someone we both knew, and had dinner with a number of the academically famous. I think I knew some famous-ish rock music people back when I knew people in that area.
I really hate name-dropping, to tell you the truth.
My HS girlfriend's decade older sister had dated Ross Valory in HS, I'm pretty sure. Maybe they just hung out.
I am, myself, a television celebrity, with a few non-starring film appearances. I can't say more for obvious reasons.
329: I'm pretty sure no one is making you read or comment on this thread.
I think it's both really weird and kind of great that Brian Cox is famous. Sounds like he's more famous among the British general public than among physicists.
And Brian May is more famous among the British general public than among astronomers for similar reasons. Cox is known as a TV personality by people who couldn't spell physicist.
I know a few genuinely famous people (not politicians), but in approximately the same sense that a waiter in a fancy restaurant "knows" famous people. And two, that I can think of, in a "know pretty well" sense. It's not that exciting, but it's better than being a sewage engineer.
The students in my classes often do not know who Le Corbusier is. These are Ivy League students who have the only Corbusier building in North America on their campus.
If it weren't for the so-called "toasters" on 55th, I doubt I or indeed many other U of C students would know the name of … the guy … who built them.
POINT MADE, I take it.
I thought I M Pei was dead also. I should stop assuming famous people are all dead.
I.M. Pei. You can thank the Iron Chancellor of Pancakes for this information.
332: No, actually, I held a gun to parsimon's head, and made her write that out. And, then, Steven Seagal appeared riding a tank!
I know a couple of sewage engineers. Well enough to have been a house guest of each multiple times over the last 30 years. Interesting people, and touring the plants was totally worth it.
338 - Stop name dropping, Peep.
I know the name Bazalgette (aka 'embanksy') off the top of my head. Couldn't remember his first name, though.
I really hate name-dropping, to tell you the truth.
I haven't been finding anyone in this thread to be bragging or anything. That is to say, I don't find the naming of specific names to necessarily be name-dropping, in the pejorative sense.
It's interesting to see whose paths people run across.
340: I was going to tell about the time a famous Los Angeles entertainment attorney got really pissed at me.
Bert Fields got really mad at you?
I should stop assuming famous people are all dead.
Doesn't that interfere terribly with your masturbation?
(Way back at 184)
What went wrong?
I spent most of the time arguing with him, basically; he was "touring" in support of The Art Instinct. At one point he said something about global warming, with what tone I'm sure you can predict, causing a prof (fortunately sitting at the end of the table) to throw down his napkin and snort in disgust. Another prof later told me that his conduct at the dinner had been guided by the "if you can't say anything nice" rule.
342: I guess I was just trained to avoid doing it, and to feel that it's in poor taste to do so. This thread is dedicated to such mentioning, so that's fine.
347: You were raised right, parsimon!
It's like I was telling Frank and Sammy and Deano,"It's just tacky!"
I spent most of the time arguing with him, basically; he was "touring" in support of The Art Instinct. At one point he said something about global warming, with what tone I'm sure you can predict, causing a prof (fortunately sitting at the end of the table) to throw down his napkin and snort in disgust. Another prof later told me that his conduct at the dinner had been guided by the "if you can't say anything nice" rule.
Presumably that was Dutton, not Dennett, or you mixed up the title, or I'm confused in some way.
342: I guess I was just trained to avoid doing it, and to feel that it's in poor taste to do so. This thread is dedicated to such mentioning, so that's fine./i>
Obviously something that is "in poor taste" is not fine.
350: Well, this thread is about famousness. People are talking about the famous-ish people they've met, in the service of being told that that person is not really actually that famous, or maybe sometimes actually is, even though we know, I assume, that the famous-ish people one may have met or known has absolutely no bearing on one's own self.
335 I doubt I or indeed many other U of C students would know the name of ... the guy ... who built them.
Yeah, that guy! Lego... logo... logorrhea?
I used to wait on Ursula Le Guin and Susan Faludi, as I've mentioned, and I once sold a French phrasebook to Robert Hays, who thanks to Airplane! is probably more famous than the other two put together.
Airplane! is the best movie ever.
Of course, if you really put Le Guin and Faludi together through some piece of mad scientist experimentation, the result would be more famous than Robert Hays.
Aww, thinking of charismatic famous (or famous-ish) people I've encountered led me to wonder if the one who first came to mind could still be alive, and, sure enough, turns out there's been no more masturbating to Paddy Leigh Fermor for a few months now. That's sad.
I know loads of famous-for-hackers hackers, but I never met the two (-ish) hackers that anybody outside the hacker scene is likely to have ever heard of, so.
we know, I assume, that the famous-ish people one may have met or known has absolutely no bearing on one's own self
What? No!
I would be a little awed to meet Ursula LeGuin.
Bookdealers do this kind of thing all the time -- or rather, they avoid doing it, except privately. (Oh, you handled and appraised the private papers of so-and-so and their transfer to the special collections of the University of Blah? I see. How are things going otherwise?)
Presumably that was Dutton, not Dennett, or you mixed up the title, or I'm confused in some way.
Aaaaagh yes, it was Dutton. OOPS. I've never done more than look at Dennett.*
* respectfully.
Bookdealers don't name drop, except in conversations.
361: hahahaha. Okay, well, PHEW.
I'm twitter pals with one famous author, but actually I think he's sort of lost interest in me. He did point me to the shoes I got married in.
What about Saarinen on the famous architects front? Daniel Liebskind for current fame?
How famous is the author of that visual presentation of data book that people are always talking about? Edward Tufte, I had to look it up. Not that I've met him, just thought he was an interesting example.
OT: I think most of you remember me from when I was a regular around here, and still see me pop in every once and a while. Don't want to derail the comment thread, debating whether or not academics count as famous is right up my alley, but if any of you know of interesting job opportunities for a lawyer in the New York area, I'd love if you shot me an e-mail, as I'm really interested in changing positions right now. E-mail is embedded.
What about Saarinen on the famous architects front?
Which one?
The Famous Architects Front of Judea.
283: you can't call the son of a Holocaust survivor* a Nazi. You just can't. There are rules. Even on the internet. I mean, really, first you take our women. And then you mock our history. I'm calling the ADL, and Abe Foxman is going to have your ass.
* Which is to say, my grandparents knew Hitler. You know, indirectly. I hope that's not too name-droppy or anything.
I loved the TWA terminal at JFK so much when I was a kid.
w/d, I thought you were about to finish that comment with the revelation that you've not got a position right now, as seems to be happening to many lawyers of (around) your age.
(This comment should not be construed as an attempt to imply that you've got it good so quitcherbitchin.)
first you take our women
...please!
What about Saarinen on the famous architects front?
Pretty sure most St. Louisians couldn't name him.
Oh, you handled and appraised the private papers of so-and-so
That's stretching it a bit. If we're just talking about papers, I've met Goethe, Schiller, Rilke, and Brecht, and I'm super besties with Heiner Müller.
I've met Teddy Roosevelt. Well, on microfilm. But the originals were in storage nearby!
375: I saw his (great?) grandson at the kiddie museum.
362 made me laugh.
I'd feel better about that if you were famous.
That's stretching it a bit. If we're just talking about papers
Come on, they're bookdealers, that's all they have. If you take that away they'll be reduced to stories of stuff they found tucked in the pages or sad bookdealeresque feats of strength where they lift boxes with like two dozen books in them.
Actually, I think handling someone's book with personal inscriptions or something like that is pretty cool, and I'm not just saying that because I own what purports to be Roman Ingarden's copy of Husserl's Ideen (vol 1), complete with receipt.
I mean, think about it, ROMAN INGARDEN.
gswift is just joshing. It's what we do.
It's also stupid. You do know that bookdealers are frequently the ones who go through and assess and appraise large collections of important material in order to present to a library the stuff they should actually keep. Which is the stuff that scholars eventually see.
339: I know a couple of sewage engineers.... touring the plants was totally worth it.
Sign in sewage treatment plant back in the 1980s:
It may be shit to you, but it's our bread and butter.
I just realized I've neglected to brag about the most famous person by far that I've met.
Ladies and gentlemen, I have met Spongebob Squarepants!
God, I found that irritating. I'm not going to defend the trade any further.
WHAT ABOUT THE FEATS OF STRENGTH PARSIMON. AND THE ROMANCE. AND THE DUST MITES.
A famous-for-radical-science-fiction-writers radical science fiction writer is going to be staying at my house this weekend.
383: Deep breaths are probably in order, parsimon. We don't actually mean it when we call each other racists, either.
389: but we're totally serious when we call each other antisemites, right? Right?
Even the New York Times (even!) doesn't think Frank Gehry is Fame Moose. Proof!
Only 1/10 of any comment of mine is ever serious. But which 1/10?
389: Yes, fine. I'm disgusted, but I'm sure I'll get over it.
394: Cue the humorless feminist references in 3...2...1...
392: I think that was proof that the New York Times does think he's famous. The note indicates that they wanted readers to know that the writer of the letter was the famous architect, and not some other insignificant guy who shared the name.
Which is the stuff that scholars eventually see.
Scholars, I think parsimon just implied you guys are their bitches. You just gonna take that?
Sorry, sorry. I recently bought a three dollar copy of Pig Will and Pig Won't in "good" condition and that thing was borderline moderate condition. I'm having a hard time letting it go.
I didn't mention that I regularly talk with famous people in the classical music world, but that doesn't really count, it seems, because it's part of my job, and it's mostly on the phone. I regularly run into a famous bookdealer, but I suppose he's not as famous as Robert Hays or Christo.
398: if it weren't for historians, nobody alive today would have a clue who Ringo Starr is.
Abe Foxman
Oh, hey, that reminds me: I was once at a conference with I/rv R/ubin. He's pretty darn infamous, right?
Eero Saarinen designed the dorm I lived in for a few years. It totally sucked. The structure had no 90 degree angles, so you couldn't put a lamp in the corner. There was a 14 story tower with one elevator. In the tower thewre were seven rooms on each floor (with no right angels), including ""the bowling alley" and "the hook." The available suite sizes meant that to enter the dorm lottery, you had to form a group of 7 or 10 or 12. When there were too many groups of 12 and not enough groups or 7 or 10, or the opposite, hilarity ensued.
399.last: It's doubtful. Who the heck knows of any famous bookdealer in Portland in the first place?
I spent several minutes standing around awkwardly while people chatted with a terribly-famous-in-a-specific-subset-of-classical-music dude. It was unedifying, except it seemed like he maybe had a prosthetic ear, which was fascinating to me.
I wouldn't mind reading a bit about Patrick Leigh Fermor in person, as I've been reading his walking-to-Constantinople books the past couple of weeks I've been in Europe. The man must have been immensely charming.
Eero Saarinen designed the dorm I lived in for a little more than a year. It totally sucked. But for different reasons.
Dave Frishb/erg told a friend of mine that once in New York, he ducked into a doorway to get in out of a sudden rainstorm, only to be joined a moment later by Stravinsky and Robert Craft. My friend said, "wow, did you say anything?", and Frishb/erg answered, "no way, man, that shit was too rich."
I'm not really sure why I Googleproofed that.
I frequently feel like I'm perpetually a degree or two too far removed from famousness. I have one relative who knows a lot of pop music and sci-fi types, another relative who was a degree or two from a lot of science types (including Carl Sagan), one who was a roommate of John Kerry's brother, and another whose brother was chief justice of a Federal appeals circuit. I bet I could have made more of this if I was the sort of person who worked connections, but I never have been.
I was there when local legend Ron House met world-wide legend Townes Van Zandt. Their conversation was scintillating. Ron House kept on using swear words, and Townes kept on admonishing him not to "curse under a roof."
I was present for the interaction described in 405, and I'm pretty sure I was concentrating on the champagne. I didn't notice the ear thing at all.
55: Your *gym* has cats? Playing around the free weights?
I dated someone who subsequently started seeing the daughter of a famous composer. This just sounds like a pointless remark.
I think I'll start making the black bean soup now.
414 would be a great comment if you subsequently revealed that the man in question was Woody Allen.
The place I blow glass has a few ambient cats. They look sleepy but they're pretty alert.
Now that I think about it, I did spend some time around Rick Fox in college because he was dating screwing my girlfriend's housemate. He's pretty famous now, I guess, but this was before he entered the NBA or started the acting career. I shook hands with Bill Clinton and Timothy O'Leary, but those were in crowds and don't really rise to the level of "meeting" either one.
Techno cats are much less sleepy.
Now that I think about it, I did spend some time around Rick Fox in college because he was dating screwing my girlfriend's housemate.
Was this housemate a future governor, by any chance?
I did have a brief spurt of getting pictures of myself taken with book authors at their signings. That got me this picture with Paul Krugman (huh, I'm wearing that same shirt today), where he clearly has no idea that I'm there, and this one with Alton Brown, which was better, and we did get to chat a bit.
I like picture #1. It looks like you're getting ready to prank Krugman by putting your fingers in his ears.
413: ...dogs and cats lifting together... mass hysteria!
Paul Krugman has probably crossed into famous due his appearance in Get Him to the Greek.
Cue the humorless feminist references in 3...2...1...
I recently met one of the founders of Ms. Magazine. She confessed to a weakness for Norwegian ship's engineers.
369: you can't call the son of a Holocaust survivor* a Nazi. You just can't. There are rules. Even on the internet.
OK, now I have guilt. I totally appreciate and accept your moral right to be the Nazi-calling Nazi.
In late June I skied (and then drank) with some with a couple of Norwegian ship engineers. Not as exciting as Montana sewage engineers, but not half bad, under the circumstances.
I met Jon Huntsman a few months ago. He's very good at making a concerned face.
My sister once got to do some back-country flying as Harrison Ford's co-pilot, and wrote about it here. One of the minor perks of being an aviation writer.
