I don't like the soles on those, but something along those lines is good. I've had a couple of successive pairs of Timberlands mens laceup shoes as something that's good for walking through slush but still looks vaguely like a shoe you could wear to the office without absurdity -- you might look at those.
Those are a little Comic Book Guy. What about a nice pair of penny loafers? Desert boots? My favorite, R.M. Williams Aussie riding boots?
I have no problem with those, but if you want to tone down the obviously-Doc-Martens factor, you could get ones without the yellow stitching. And yes, I did link to the vegan version! (They were the ones I knew how to find quickly.)
(Actually, there's a decent reason why not those, which is that if your feet are mine that particular shoe just will not fit in any of the available sizes.)
4, 6: Do those come with a free Utilitkilt?
God, I just hate everything about that brand. Seriously just name, which I cannot bear to type, gives me hives.
The most recent things I got were basically like this:*
http://www.grenson.co.uk/shop/sharp-231
http://www.grenson.co.uk/fred-1978
I haven't worn Docs since I was in my teens, but if I found some I liked, I'd wear them.
* different brand with a stupid flash-only web-site, same basic style.
I still have a pair that look just like that which I bought in London just before I started dating UNG. The shoes really held up well!
Christ there's some fuggly orthopaedic looking shoes above.
Oh, I do like the pair linked in 4. So very much. I need to go shoe shopping.
Hmm, I do not believe the items linked by Ttam in 10 are appropriate for manly footwear in the United States of America.
Do not get the shoes shown in the OP. As the Achewood says, you will look like you drive a Honda Goldwing and have swords.
A nice pair of loafers is good. Or some variant of the kind of thing Nosflow linked above, though something seems weird about that particular shoe.
Chukkas? Bluchers? Dirty bucks? Saddle shoes?
re: 14
What?! They are i) brogues, ii) boots, therefore the very epitome of manly. They'd only be more manly if they had a blade that shot out from the toe.
I agree with 14.2
What about a nice pair of opera pumps? Everyone loves the opera. And, of course, court dress-derived formal shoes.
Not questioning their manliness, just that they would look odd here, I think.
re: 18
Does this feed back into the whole 'anything other than chinos* and a blazer is somehow overtly metrosexual and thus suspect' thing?
* or as I prefer to call them, 'fucking chinos'.
Wilt Chamberlain just went around barefoot.
As the Achewood says, you will look like you drive a Honda Goldwing and have swords.
!!!
Do. Not. Want.
Not exactly. I can't really put my finger on it. Just something about the not quite a cowboy boot, not quite a dress shoe, wing tip stitching combo would read as a little, I dunno, gaudy (?), or foreign, to my eye. Maybe we're just not used to them.
I suppose I should weigh in with the shoes I got, so. They aren't that cheap but I'm hoping to wear them into the ground over the course of many years. Also I need to get that little extra rubber doohickey attached to the sole so I don't slip all over the place on certain surfaces. They are otherwise pretty darn awesome, though.
The shoes ttaM got are spiffy. What's the problem? I like higher-cut dressy-ish shoes.
I'm glad the verdict is unaninmous--the shoes in the OP are horrible.
I used to have a pair of boots like the first ones ttaM linked, and as far as I know, I'm reasonably manly.
I have owned a couple of pairs of DMs and was happy with them, but that was twenty years ago. Still acceptable, though, I'd say.
The shoes in 24 are fine, but back to the OP, I'd question the assumption that there is any occasion in which my sneakers are too informal and yet my black leather dress shoes are too formal. Black leather dress shoes dress down pretty well. Brown, even more so.
Oh hey, wait, I didn't get the black ones. I got these.
Remove the 'my' from 29--copy + paste error.
I'm still going with the "shoes in 10 would look weird." Not unmanly, just weird. If you want to rock a weird look though, go for it.
16: I think what's going on with those is that brogues (in USian, wingtips) are the most formal of office-type shoes, and boots don't read formal at all, so they clash with themselves. The total effect is kinda steampunk or something -- archaic but weird.
I like them, but they're distinctly interesting, not something I'd expect to ever see on someone who wasn't generally dressed kind of costumey.
I love wingtips. I have some wingtips that are definitely not formal, as well as some that are definitely, hilariously, costumey-y formal.
33: Wingtips are not the most formal office-type shoes. They're considered less formal than most standard cap toes or plain toes.
33: I think in the realm of the teabags the UK brogues are less formal than plain leather shoes.
re: 33
Yeah, I suppose. I don't think they code as odd here. Just another boot/leather-shoe variation. Like the chelsea boot, or desert boot.
I'm wearing wing tips RIGHT NOW, bitches.
Also, I think 35 and 36 are right.
35: Really? All I know is that men I know with wingtips seem to generally be dressing in a higher register of formality than those who restrict themselves to less baroque office shoes. But I suppose that doesn't make the wingtips themselves formal.
35: In America wearing anything but tube socks and Clinton-era-vintage Reebok Pumps is super-formal.
Actually, I now want to find a similar boot with a maybe one inch heel and wear it with long skirts. I don't have any long wool skirts these days, but I must be able to find some.
40 -- I believe that the American lawyer's dress code calls for wing tips and suits in court, but not for business casual, and for the wearing of more plain-front shoes with business casual.* But that Urple and Ttam are generally right.
*I am breaking this rule right now.
I'd definitely go with Halford on Tamm's shoes being unmanly. If they'd been beat to hell by being worn as shitkickers for 6 months or so, then cleaned up, the *might* be OK.
I had some wingtip 3-hole Docs in black and oxblood they I *loved* in the mid-90s. They were chunky, which is what's wrong with the OP shoes--current shoes are much slimmer and streamlined (unless Tamm's wife says that the trend is now reverting--we in the boonies don't necessarily see what the cool kids are wearing in London).
I think the shoes in 10 look swell, but I don't know if I have any credibility at all.
9: I like many of their shoes lots but I'll certainly agree that the name is terrible.
A high school teacher I was speaking with a few months ago said that flannels and Doc Martens are big in her 10th grade class -- 90s revivalism.* Jesus wept.
*Speaking of which, I saw a picture of the Stone Roses recently, who are reuniting, and they look like they're 85. Even accounting for their drug use, holy shit did that make me feel old.
90s revivalism.
Snoop Dogg is 40 years old today.
40: yes, really. For men, brogues/wingtips are considered the least formal shoe that's properly formal enough to wear with a suit (and a few traditionalists still think they're slightly too informal for that).
49: of course, those same people consider suits in brown or green to be beyond inappropriate, so those of us who aren't east coast lawyers can thankfully ignore them.
Oh, the shoes in the OP are fine. If you want to look like you ride a Goldwing and own swords you wear black leather sneakers and black jeans.
You are all picking out dressy $300 shoes, which is not what Stanley is after.
I like the shoes in 10, too, for the record.
49: I'll take your word for it, but would you agree that in today's offices, they tend to be worn either by the stuffy or the dapper -- most men's default office shoe is plainer, so a man in a wingtip is either old fashioned or dressy?
For the discriminating GoldWing-riding sword collector.
49: On brogues, let's go to the officials:
54 reminds me: googling formal men's fashion advice is one of the most astounding thing I've ever done. None more pedantic! None! It's a miracle they can bring themselves to leave the house, their rules are so strict and extensive.
I dropped a letter somewhere in 55.
Their Rutles are strict and extensive?
55: Got to know the rules before you can break them with style, the Suitable Wardrobe guy would probably say.
I used to wear Rockports, well-made and OK looking. Since NB bought them, the shoes are terrible and mostly ugly. Mephisto and sale Fluevogs are reasonably priced, well-made, and look OK.
I am going to continue to be glad that I can get away with wearing black sneakers to work every day, even if I don't sink so low as to actually wear a T-shirt or jeans with them.
51: You are all picking out dressy $300 shoes, which is not what Stanley is after.
This is right. I do like Eccos and I'd say this is the level of thing you describe form them. Or for a cheaper Rockport semi-equivalent (the brown ones, and what I am wearing* at the moment).
*Or not wearing, but they are under my desk.
I really like ttaM's brogue boots. I would wear the hell out of those.
The shoes I picked out (that is, that I bought) are neither $300 nor particularly dressy.
5: I'm in NYC this weekend and am now seriously considering a trip over to MooShoes. So...thanks!
Yes, the Eccos are better. But most shoes shown here are way better than the shoes in the OP, which (sorry, Ouds) just are not OK. Tweety's shoes were perfect, if a little pricey.
Like Urple, I'd also question the assumption in the OP. Most places you can either dress up the sneakers or dress down the dress shoes.
60: Since NB bought them
Adidas, I assume you mean.
My theory on men's shoes is that if you're going to wear leather non-sneaker shoes then just go for it and get regular shoes. The in-between of shoes that kinda don't look like sneakers but kinda do and are kinda the same price as sneakers do nothing for me.
Anyhow, the shoes I bought will, as I mentioned, hopefully last for-fucking-ever, and can be relatively easily resoled, etc.
I could kinda see Stanley rockin' these.
But most shoes shown here are way better than the shoes in the OP
I agree with this, but the word "most" is doing a hell of a lot of work.
I've seemed to like variations on what I think might be Clarks shoes, on men. For an in-between, fairly all-purpose, option between sneakers and dress shoes.
It is taking freaking forever to get a site to load showing pictures of these shoes, however.
These could be a good compromise between Docs and something pricier.
I don't like DM shoes much (actually, I like the buckle up women's shoes, just not the lace-ups) but if you want DMs, why not just buy boots?
70 -- fair enough. Do not get, frex, these.
Nobody should take my advice on fashion, but I'm uncompromising about foot comfort. I have a pair very similar to the ones in 4 which are probably the best shoes I've ever owned for looks/comfort tradeoff and the leather looks so nice that they work well for dressier occasions, too.
Right now I'm wearing these to work most days and they are stupidly comfortable, way cheaper than the ones above, and look as close to normal as anything I ever wear. It is kind of a pain to get someplace where you could try them on, however.
That's absurd, Sifu.
You mean that his shoes look like two ducks.
Arch support and a non-flimsy sole are essentials IMO. I refuse to have shoes that are only useful for 100yds on carpet. So, dress shoes are a big problem.
Maybe these? More expensive than the last Fleuvogs I bought. I start looking for shoes a few months before I buy, which writing it maybe makes me an unreasonable cheapskate.
How do those vivobarefoot shoes hold up? I've been considering a pair on and off for a while, but haven't ever pulled the trigger.
There's always the bespoke option.
So, my reservation about the shoes in the OP is the chunky sole in a contrasting color -- as LB says in 1, I guess.
Anything from here seem interesting, Stanley? I'm not a big fan of wedge soles/heels, and advise an actual shaped heel/arch on the sole.
That's the loafers page. There's an oxfords page as well.
If it looks like a duck... wait, did I accidentally link to these?
78: I thought I was all about arch support, too, after wearing nothing but Birkenstocks for years (hey, I said I was about comfort not fashion, so I don't want to hear it), but to my surprise I really like the barefoot-type shoes. It's like going to work in footie pajamas. But ymmv, of course.
79: I've had mine for I think 2 years (?) and while they're not *the* most durable shoes I've ever owned, they're a lot tougher than they look. I probably walk 3-4 miles on pavement every day and the tread is still in pretty good shape. They certainly wear better than Birkenstocks. I've done the puncture test, too: stepped on a huge tack during a brisk walk. It did make it through the sole, but slowed down enough not to continue through my foot. It hurt, but no blood.
79: Although, I should mention - I liked the leather ones so much, I bought a canvas pair for summer. Those did not last so well.
65: There's a great Vietnamese (vegan) joint next door!
80: I wish Wesco would make slightly less clunky shoes for everyday city wear. Also, I wish I had a million dollars so I could afford several pairs of Wescos.
I will tell Frowner you all are talking about this subject, and then she will come and set you straight.
I could kinda see Stanley rockin' these.
Those aren't bad. A bit like Campers, which I admit having had a soft spot for circa 2001. The sole looks a little bit thin.
Something about all the Nunn Bush/Rockport shoes reminds me of my dad. And I like my dad. But I don't want to wear his shoes.
re: 80
There's a place I used to pass often in Oxford that does made-to-measure shoes. Pricey.
I'm barefoot, amigos! That's why Taco Bell kicked me out earlier today.
I have a pair of these:
http://www.zappos.com/ecco-helsinki-slip-on-black-santiago-full-grain-leather
that one can wear any time one is not wearing shorts or playing basketball. They last forever, and they stand up admirably to hours of walking on cobblestones. Highly recommended.
89: Those aren't bad, but something about a lot of these shoes is they seem overly shiny to me. Is that weird? I want matte, not glossy.
Hey guys, have you heard of Michelle Shocked?
It doesn't really take long for glossy shoes to turn matte.
If anyone is looking for men's dress shoes that are good for providing extra support to help you with foot issues, my husband is a big fan of Mephisto. They are pricey, though.
Oh, the shoes in the OP are fine. If you want to look like you ride a Goldwing and own swords you wear black leather sneakers and black jeans.
Seriously. Regular boring old low rise Docs are not Goldwingy unless you combine them with, like, a fedora.
If you are dressed casually enough for work shoes to be appropriate, then what is wrong with a work shoe? There are more interesting ones than Docs, of course.
Holy crap does trying to find size 14 men's anything suck.
There are definitely reasonably nice work shoes. They're sort of big and heavy, though, generally.
Okay, Stanley, I got you figured out.
Be warned:
This is my personal nightmare: 1. Wears Tevas by default but will opt for dorky dress shoe Doc Martens on special occasions.2. Played ultimate frisbee at a college in Colorado3. Loves bootleg live Jam band performances and Techno mixes from Israeli raves.4. Smokes Winstons and does Oxy "casually"5. Went on tour but wasn't in the band.6. Watches Fight Club over and over.7. Delivers subs.
99: I like 'em, but I'm not sure I can justify $260 for shoes. Maybe I'll start a kickstarter or something.
I kind of love those shoes in 99.
Not a big fan of the work shoes unless you're actually working, but there are some nice kinds.
Since there is no attribution, I'm going to have to assume 101 is RH speaking for himself.
If I could afford to spend $260 for shoes I would wear as little as I would wear the shoes in 99, I would get them in a heartbeat.
I paid $50 for my last pair of shoes. I got a raging fungus attack, I think because they are too cheap to let foot sweat escape.
105 cont'd: but I really need to be more practical, seeing as I already have a pair of these.
107: Spectators! The white part had better be suede, according to the traditionalists.
Regular boring old low rise Docs are not Goldwingy unless you combine them with, like, a fedora.
Other nerd stigmata: black duster, Wolverine t-shirt, neckbeard/bloatee, raging stench.
The white part had better be suede
It is, yep.
I mean I bought them at fucking Brooks Brothers; I should hope they appease the traditionalists.
108: kind of awesome. I would be immensely proud of Stanley if he picked those up.
The only real way to appease the traditionalists is to be the Duke of Windsor redivivus.
True story: I once had a few hours to spend in an East Coast city on a business trip before my flight home. So I got drunk and then decided I needed to go shoe shopping (which I did). Ended up with something that were basically these.
Cowboy boots. I'm wearing mine (instead of usual white sneakers -- which the wife hates) tomorrow, because I have a depo. I'll wear a different pair every day when the case goes to trial next month.
raging stench
To be fair, stench isn't an indicator with very high sensitivity or specificity.
108: Not bad, not bad. I might be coming around on (a) brown and (b) suede. I have an inexplicable knee-jerk aversion to both.
I found myself unaccountably drawn to these when I was googling up shoe options for Stanley, but luckily there's no fucking way in hell ever no too much.
114: Weirdly, and reversedly, I once got shitfaced at that bar in the men's department of the Beverly Hills Neiman Marcus and ended up with all sorts of random, expensive shit.
119 -- holy shit! I love that place. It is absolutely the best place in LA to get drunk at 11 am on a Wednesday (not cheap division). OK, I've never actually done that, but it is on the bucket list.
117: suede is just delightful, but it can be hard to make it work more formally if you want to. I got some totally boss lightish-brown suede wingtips in Germany on my honeymoon (we each bought a pair of shoes in lieu of other keepsakes) but it's not the easiest thing in the world to find occasions to wear them.
118: That is an extremely pretty color.
Facebook is pernicious, but I would 'like' 119 if I could.
I got some really dynamite sneakers at Neiman Marcus once, oddly enough.
OT: I just downloaded an assignment, the dataset, and an amended copy the lecture notes from yesterday. They were on a course website and received email notification from the professor.
127: he knows I'm only saying it out of all-consuming jealousy.
I have two different pairs -- they are both 10+ years old, and are a bit large-ish to get out much, but they're very comfortable.
Recently I've done all right ordering Kenneth Cole labels online -- they fit all right and aren't too boring. I've gotten two pairs for under $75 each from the sale pages at Shoes.com.
114: hahahaha, those look exactly like what I'd try on were I drunk on a weekday waiting for a plane. Fortunately for me, I probably couldn't get them on and so wouldn't actually end up bringing them home.
There's a new guy, but he must be 50, who always wears red Crocs to work every day. I'd ask, but he seems nice and I don't think I could sound unscornful.
Ha, I used to have a pair just like those second Fluevogs you linked, k-sky.
Stanley, do you have any idea what direction you would want to go with these not-sneakers/not-dress-shoes? Are you thinking something like a plain oxford (so, kind of like a dress shoe, but made more casual by the color or kind of leather), or a sort of dressy sneaker (sneaker-like in form, but elevated by being made out of leather or more streamlined or something)? Or something completely different? Flippanter mentioned chukka boots, which I had also thought of as maybe fitting your style.
(I see that Clarks calls what I would think of as chukka boots "desert boots.")
130: Ooh, I'd *definitely* end up with a suitcase full of those if I went shopping while drunk on a business trip.
134: Why are you wearing red Crocs to work?
http://123vintage.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=99
I have a pair similar to the above in brown. But I never wear them. I've got a couple of Allen Edmonds dress shoes that I wear all the time. Outside of work, I wear Salomon water shoes.
Good shoes rock. Do not cheap out on shoes.
||
Least surprising GAO findings in the world about the Fed.
The rules, which the Fed has kept secret, let directors tied to banks participate in decisions involving how much interest to charge financial institutions and how much credit to provide healthy banks and institutions in "hazardous" condition. Even when situations arise that run afoul of Fed's conflict rules and waivers are granted, the GAO said the waivers are kept hidden from the public.|>
Are you thinking something like a plain oxford (so, kind of like a dress shoe, but made more casual by the color or kind of leather), or a sort of dressy sneaker (sneaker-like in form, but elevated by being made out of leather or more streamlined or something)?
Either of these would be fine and quite nicely state what I'm after.
The Clarks desert things I'm finding seem a bit moccasin-y for my tastes.
I've got a couple of Allen Edmonds dress shoes
A friend of mine recently got a pair of Allen Edmonds shoes from Zappos and loves them. He knows his size in them now and has gotten a few barely used pairs from there.
He also just started a visiting assistant professorship in a not-urban area and is bored out of his head.
kind of like a dress shoe, but made more casual by the color or kind of leather
Simple, handsome, reasonably priced, good with jeans. The blue stitching adds a little sizzle. Fluevogs are really well made -- take a chance.
For men, we can wear the same shoes over and over. Get good ones.
Fluevogs are really well made
Not IME.
144: I only get about 3 to 6 months out of a shoe before they get a hole in the sole.
147: I do if the upper is in good shape and I liked the shoe. Still, I can't wear leather soles for daily use. They don't even last a month.
148: I have the floor like that just sitting around the house from baby days.
Still, I can't wear leather soles for daily use. They don't even last a month.
?????
He knows his size in them now and has gotten a few barely used pairs from there.
Oops. From eBay, that is. He spends all his time looking for shoe deals online.
Ben, do you have any Cydwoqs? If so, how do you like them?
154: I do, but they don't fit very well, which is annoying. I had tried on a pair in a different style supposedly made on the same last that fit perfectly, then got the style I do own sent to me. Don't fit well! They're too loose is the thing, the last has nothing to do with it. Even with the insoles cydwoq also sells (which naturally fit perfectly into their shoes) they're still a suboptimal. Which is a shame, because I really like their looks.
So ... Stanley is preferring lace-ups (oxfords) over loafers (slip-ons)? Is that right? He prefers matte over glossy. That's what we know so far? And something or other upthread had a bit of a thin sole, so he's wanting a solid sole? Necessarily a chunky sole, like the docs?
From my own experience, there's nothing wrong with docs at all: the pair I have (with buckle closure) have stood up strong for a decade. The thing about them is that they're heavy, feel like wearing shitkickers. So they're fine unless I'm wearing what you might call trousers -- thinner material pants -- in which case I look and feel bottom heavy. That doesn't necessarily stop me, but I acknowledge that it's a little mismatched.
This is why, for a middle-purpose shoe, between sneaker and dress shoe, I think of something Clarks calls a loafer, like this or this. Those feel/seem to me a little more updated yet practical, comfortable, okay for anything from the Olive Garden to long walks that turn into mild hikes to your aunt's 90th birthday party with finger sandwiches.
155: They'll probably shrink in the dryer.
Seriously, my real advice is probably just to stop messing around in the mid-section between dress shoes and sneakers. Just get nicer dress shoes, comfortable to wear, maybe with rubber soles for durability, and you'll be able to dress them down with other clothes, unless you're going so casual that the sneakers are cool.
The only real reason to go for something in-between (like the suede shoes I linked to above) is if you're often in some environment, like a weird country club or something (Virginia?), where loafers or boat shoes are appropriate but sneakers are somehow not. In that case, just swallow your pride and get some loafers.
This is definitely going to be the only time I ever say this, but halford gets it right.
Those Fluevogs k-sky linked to would probably work pretty well.
159 amended: except, you know, there are some shoes that are essentially dress shoes but with distressed leather or whatever that are objectively greater than fancified, traditional dress shoes, but which can also probably be worn with nice clothes if you should so choose.
OT: Is gswift checking in on any of these threads because I want some insight into how this guy was able to smuggle a
samuri sword in a bicycle!
158: Once again, I am very far removed from RH's view (and Sifu's on this one). In my boring world, what Stanley is looking for is what nearly everyone wears nearly everywhere. Get good ones from ECCO or Clarks or something with fashionable twist, and done.
The shoes Halford links in 108 are very nice indeed, and in fact I had the hots for a guy who wore something very like them daily; but they'd get beat up very quickly anywhere outside, say, a university campus.
I have a pair from ECCO that I really like. Very light and the sole last for four months. Those type of shoes cost $40 or more re-sole but are good enough to last for a couple of soles..
167: do you get those rubber doohickeys that the shoe doohickey doohickers can attach to the sole? Dancer's soles, maybe?
I have no idea what you mean. On leather soles, you can get the rubber extra sole and that helps. The ECCO ones I have are some type of synthetic sole.
164: But of course my circumstance are probably pretty different from RH's as well (and I was assuming Stanley' are closer to mine). I have one pair of good dress shoes, and probably wear them on average twice a month; they've lasted a decade and I expect them to last another or two.
But of course my circumstance are probably pretty different from RH's as well
Do you live a life full of adventure, passion, and hot babes?
Careful, JP ... must try and think ...
172: Oh, you mean when other people are around.
Oh, wait, other people have to be around?
http://www.zappos.com/sebago-brattle
You know, I just reread the OP, and I think Stanley maybe just wants the Docs. For what it's worth, I think you can get Docs with a black sole (mine are) rather than than the pale contrasting sole. If that matters.
If the question was whether Docs register significantly with people as Nazi-punk shoes: nah, no. Not at all. They register as reliable and all-purpose. They're like Hush Puppies, if you think about it.
Has nobody mentioned Keens? Every pair of Keens I've ever owned has been wonderful: comfortable, durable, funky enough not to hurt my pride. That said, under no circumstances should Keens be worn with a suit. But! They can be worn with khakis or jeans and a blazer! For example, these are awesome.
This was the most annoying thread to read, what with the endless clicking through, but I can officially say that ttaM posted the most gorgeous shoes. I slightly prefer the first of the two links.
179: With all respect to your scholarly whatever, those are stupid shoes that nobody would wear if they had taste.
179 -- ...uhhhhhhhh, VDub, I'm not really sure how to talk about this, but. Let's just meet at the bar at Neiman Marcus.
Vaguely on the subject of formal clothing. At some point before interview seasons starts I should sort out whether wearing jeans and a t-shirt will hurt me or not. I say it won't matter, but Rhymeswithmaria thinks it's unprofessional.
181: my scholarly whatevers neither demand nor want your respect. I simply think that Keens are a slightly less ugly version of Eccos are whatever JP suggested upthread. But if you all disagree, I'll just have to hide my feet in shame.
I hadn't actually clicked on the second link ttaM posted. Damn, those are rad. It's a shame they cost a hundred billion dollars American.
176: can't you just wear Sidis to work?
184: Wear a suit unless you want to find a job that involves passing fries out of a window.
Oh, I hadn't looked at ttaM's links in 10. Most excellent boots. I've had several pairs similar to them over time -- with a bit less detailing -- I don't wear them often these days, just one pair in any kind of regular rotation. They're not considered feminine; they're really not the style at all lately. Though I guess I wore them to UnfoggeDConII.
Keens are a slightly less ugly version of Eccos
I am prepared to concede this, but you nevertheless could not pay me enough to wear the shoes you linked.
If they come in brown, that might be a bit better.
Nah, Utpegi doesn't need to wear a suit to interview, if he's going for the kind of jobs I assume he's going for. But a button down shirt and a pair of khakis would make the whole thing a non-issue, in case you are around someone who cares.
This feels like some kind of record in on-topic perseverance.
If they come in invisible, that might be better.
Yeah, she's arguing for button-down and cords.
194: I don't mean to be rude, but this is a shoe thread. You should be talking about shoes.
Aren't mathematicians all total weirdos with stringy hair who are wearing t-shirts with equations on them or something?
193: I'll defer to you as I don't know what job is being sought.
Although if UPETGI could get known as the most dapper man of mathematics, that would be pretty sweet.
Ok, not cool that after reading this thread, and following various links to Zappos, Amazon is now advertising shoes to me on other websites.
Somebody else follow this link and tell me if the ad on the right-hand side isn't for shoes as well...
Maybe Flippanter could dress him for the job talks. They're both in NYC, right? That would be a good use of community resources. And UPETGI might end up with opera shoes.
I'm certainly unwilling to wear formal shoes.
Not only is it an ad for shoes, at least two of the three shoes pictured appeared in this very thread.
It's awesome that the only person who wears ties in the math dept. here is a woman. At Berkeley we used to have a dutch prof who wore suits every day.
203: But you know that's where the outgoing mathematicians will be looking.
I think a suit would clearly be a worse idea than jeans and a t-shirt (from the appearing professional point of view).
Sometimes, living in the future just creeps me the heck out. I'll probably be seeing shoe ads for weeks.
I'll be the first to admit that no one should listen to me on any manner of fashion or apparel, but my shoe strategy is the one area I am prepared to even weigh in on (and I'm not as off-base as Von Wafer*).
*Wannabe historian tidbit of the day: the changes in technology of deed recording as you go back through the decades--I think I counted 8 distinct styles today. And I have no idea why Pa. would use perches (linear and areal**) as late as the 1890s.
It can be a volume measure as well.
201: Yeah, I had that thought as well, after I realized that I've had like 10 or 15 tabs open to various pictures of shoes.
VW's shoes are not good, unfortunately. But I'm sure we all have ungood shoes.
201: Yep, I've already infected two computers with the shoe ad virus today.
207: Especially with the sneakers.
These are actually the ones I wear. It's never occurred to me that all this time they were laughing at my shoes.
On the shoe virus infection: how does that happen aside from being logged in to google at the time? Or logged in, I guess, somewhere else like the NYT or Washington Post or some such? I'm prepared to blame Google and/or Facebook. It can't really happen otherwise, right?
The brown ones are marginally less awful, but the Dutch Cookie should not be rocking these weak kicks!!!
I agree that the brown ones are better. The all black makes the first ones look like orthotic trailrunners for grandpa.
I just clicked on a Zappos ad that lets me opt out
Of course, the opt out itself is a cookie, so I don't doubt that it still somehow goes on your Permanent Record.
You do know I'm a middle-aged history professor, right? Not a rock star or a professional bison hunter?
That could all change with better shoes!
By the way, you all don't have ad-block on your browser(s)? I actually did check Spike's link from 201, then realized, duh, well, no, I don't see ads. On this machine, anyway.
Von Wafer, what are you going to do with your life?
Keep at it for 40 years and you can be an elderly history professor with stupid shoes.
Uh oh. Now when I click on Zappos, I get these as "recommended for you."
I'm kind of opposed to ad-block because ads are an important way of supporting independent web site who provide free content on the internet.
But I developed that opinion some time ago, when websites were a lot more independent, and ads weren't nearly so pernicious with the tracking. I may have to re-evaluate.
224: That's excellent, Halford. Your gigolo future awaits you.
224: in the black, not the blue? Square.
225: because ads are an important way of supporting independent web site who provide free content on the internet
Only if you click on the ads, though, right? Some independent websites do rely on ad revenue, which relies on page views within the website (not clicks on the ads themselves), and nobody knows whether you, the reader, has ad-block enabled on your end. You're just a page-viewer, so it still counts. I thought.
I have put that confusingly, perhaps. Point is that unless you're expecting to actually click on ads (which I don't), it doesn't matter whether you have ad-block locally installed. I thought.
38: hott! halford is right; also flippanter is right. I don't fully understand your hatred of loafers if you are going to scorn lace-up dress shoes as too fancy. they're just...loafers. what's even there to hate? hating top-siders, well, I understand without agreeing. they're mandatory on some occasions, as far as I can see (other than sailing). ttam's proposed shoes rock the house. that is all.
which relies on page views within the website (not clicks on the ads themselves), and nobody knows whether you, the reader, has ad-block enabled on your end. You're just a page-viewer, so it still counts. I thought.
I don't think this is true at all. Ads are served from a different server than the rest of the site, so the proprietors of that server (ie, the ad networks) know exactly how many ads they are serving, and for what content.
I click on ads all the time.... usually just to click on it and close the tab. Whenever I'm on a liberal website and I see an ad for NewsMax, or some other stupid Republican thing, I always make sure to click the ad. For every click, that's money out of the pocket of NewsMax and into the pocket of the lefty blogger.
I do have one pair of pure white docs that I still wear from time to time. They seem dapper, despite the doc-ness.
230.1 is right, but incomplete. Ad companies also set cookies and all kinds of other crazy-ass shit through the ads that they serve from their third-party servers onto the sites that you visit that serve ads.
Fucking sites with shitloads of ads and loading up a bunch of tracking crap, take forever to load. It's ridiculous. I can't think through the pros and cons of Spike's proactive Republican ad-clicking strategy in 230.2.
Can we get Zappos to recommend to Halford the girliest shoes imaginable? That is the question.
Actually, since I mostly buy shoes for my 4 year old daughter on Zappos, most of my recommendations literally are the girliest shoes imaginable.
Oh. Okay, you've got that covered, then.
Well, in as much as I have a couple websites that make a few bucks off of Google ads, I'm perhaps more kindly disposed towards ads than others might be. But I'm becoming increasingly unsettled by the creepy trackingness of it all.
I love Zappos (same day shipping! and often free of charge! and I just ignore the ads [what ads?]), and I really want these shoes (er, boots, really).
I have a bit of a footwear fetish, I do confess.
Is Emerson posting here now? He hates these shoe threads with a passion, as I recall.
Truth be told, I used to run SpyBot and AdAware on a weekly basis as a matter of routine to clear tracking cookies, but I fell off that a while ago. Probably will take that up again, just on this machine; the work machine remains dedicated to no-nonsense activity.
You know my strategy of using Firefox for my real name, and Chrome for Heebie, and just having two browsers running?
I got a new work computer over the summer. They transferred over my files. When I used it for the first time, I couldn't figure out where they'd put Firefox and Chrome.
The IT guy said he hadn't bothered to transfer them, because none of the faculty ever use anything but Explorer, and so he hadn't realized it was something I might want. (He came over and transferred them, because I wanted my bookmarks.)
I started out just telling this story. But now I think it illustrates why I'm sometimes cavalier with the pseudonymity and still confident no one from work will ever discover.
I've been wearing oxfords from Bostonian most of the time, but they wear out a lot more quickly than I would like. Of course, I also do stupid things like take a trip to Aspen and forget to pack other shoes and hike in them.
People clicking on ads pay my mortgage (Kind of disturbing when you think how many clicks go into one paycheck). And yet, I and many of my fellow engineers use adblocks most of the time!
(y'all know that Amazon has owned Zappos for over a year, right?)
For years, a friend of mine used to rock Italian tank trooper boots of this design but in black leather. They were Doc Martenesque without the pronounced Skinhead stigma of Docs, and admirably suited to masquerade as dressy under the camouflage of suit pants, or to work as Gothy clubwear. I'm sure Sifu long since solved his footwear dilemma (I haven't read the thread), but thought he might appreciate this solution nevertheless.
I much prefer your new name with just the first letters capitalized, Lord.
The Castock estate thanks you!
BTW, I'd just like to say BWAHAHAHA to 224.
I thought pageviews and clickthroughs both got factored into ad revenue. Maybe the pageviews are used to negotiate ad rates; in any case, I generally don't block ads, but I do deploy readability against some of the hideous newspaper pages. Although I don't read TPM as closely as I used to, I'm impressed that they've been able to keep relatively clean pages while being almost entirely ad-supported.
I really hate how a Facebook ad keeps appearing on Yahoo news in a way that takes over the page so they can try to get me to enable their apps (this happens only if I'm logged in to facebook).
246 seems the right reaction.
I like Von Wafer's shoes. But I hate most men's formal shoes. And I hate it when men wear formal shoes with jeans.
you guys, I don't think I can do this thing with meeting my shrink every week. I am shaking like a leaf, all over. how is this supposed to be good for me? because I'll be so happy when it's over? she reminded me there's always inpatient care. quick, robin, to the bat-psych-ward! not that it's not soothing and all but jesus, I'm busy with my job and trying not to get evicted. so soothing and they take away your nail scissors. fuck. me.
Late to the party, but let me say that 179 pretty much defines "a shanda fur die goyim".
248.last
I like lots of formal shoes, but I generally agree re: formal shoes and jeans. Hence the brogue boots in 10, which I don't think anyone is in any danger of mistaking for formal shoes, as the booty/heavier-soled nature is obvious. But, in particular, black formal type shoes with jeans, ugh.
There's always just nicer less scabby trainers. I like these (although mine are a fractional different colour scheme):
http://www.onitsukatiger.com/en-uk/collection/product/MEXICO-66-D1F1L-2861
Or you could go down the old-school shell-toe Adidas Superstar, or Gazelle route:
http://shop.adidas.co.uk/product/SN165/G50994/detail.jsf?cm_vc=pdpz1
http://shop.adidas.co.uk/product/DA281/V24909/Originals/Men%27s+Gazelle+Indoor/detail.jsf
Keen makes excellent sport sandals. I have a pair that I use as sport sandals. I recommend them for all your sport sandal needs. They are not to be confused with shoes.
Al, maybe you need to alternate weeks between psycho and retail therapies.
I do get a lot of wear out of my Adidas Gazelles. Though I also occasionally rock a pair of these, on rare occasion with dress slacks or even a suit. Dangerously close to Tweety's 53.
I could do so by making the retail part my fucking job where I sell retail. I think it's time to get busy busy busy people! I'm going to the bank, and to transfer money to indonesia, and buying a few last relaxing fountains and stuff for merc, and figuring out his fucking sniper screen which is a huge pain in the ass. maybe go to work for a little while. tomorrow I'm going to SELL THE EVERLOVING FUCK out of some furniture. sell like I've never sold before! it's a shame the only wonderful relaxing stickers I have to put up are in his bedroom but I can always go when he's not there. then I'm done and can disengage, once I get all my fucking money. I guess the best thing would be to have the client pay the whole budget up front? more painful for them, though. you'll get them to buy more bit by bit. I don't know what regular ID people do. he still owes me...$15,000 at the moment. he's good for it, he just. meh. he wants the screen so he can get his beloved cats at his house and they won't escape.
I love the 'spice' colour of those first adidas. And k-sky, I finally succumbed to Keens this summer, but for my daughters, not me. Have to say, I love them (and am hoping I bought Kid D's big enough that she might get another summer's wear out of them next year) and am thinking I might get some when my current Tevas die. Although I think I actually bought Kid B my favourites.
I have no formal shoes. My most formal are light green, which I don't suppose is a very formal colour. When I went to my Gaudy in the summer (black tie), I really didn't want to have to buy shoes so I wore purple DMs.
Because my wife runs a shoe shop I have quite a lot of nice pairs of shoes, although not at her Imelda Marcos level. Manager's discount, plus she gets a few pairs a year free. Definitely a convert to spending real money on them, I think. A pair of leather-soled suede desert boot type things that I particularly like have been resoled twice and are still going strong.
Nice adidas are pretty much my go-to kinda inbetween shoe. Also, I wouldn't get Docs; there's probably a cheaper/better steel-capped work boot option available.
got dining chairs, buying soothing fountain, money not there for the poor Indo bastards. I was leaving them hanging because they pissed me off before, but now I'm actually being dicked around. I am wearing men's style patent leather shoes which are black but have white patent toe and heels. no fancy brogue designs, just flat sewn edges. great on me but only appropriate for a gay man.
Gazelles are my every-day shoes for work and otherwise.
The Loakes version of the desert boot (which I am wearing now) is really nice (model name Kalahari). I say this as someone who's had a pair of desert boots basically all the time since 1998.
Regarding the Docs, don't worry about the semiotics - as well as the NF knobber look, you could be a SHARP skinhead, or a 1980s leftie, or a punk, or to be honest about 50% of the current UK Uncut activist base, or these days an off duty model type. It's the Swiss Army knife of shoes. Every cult did it at some point.
As far as the sneaker subthread goes, as the Stone Roses are back together, why not go for the Adidas Stan Smith?
yeah, there were plenty of SHARP skins, you could look up the appropriate indicative lacing if you wanted.
like those imaginary 1970s gay pocket-square communications, but real! well, I imagine there was some 1970s gay pocket-square communication, but no way to the level that that one poster listing them all suggests.
OT:
Dear hippies:
Although I am wearing a suit and tie today, I am, in spirit, on your smelly, disreputable side. Please don't drum circle, puppet, guerrilla theater or exhale your heathen devil weed at me. I remain
Yours truly,
Flippanter
I bought a pair of Ecco leather boots yesterday, which have what I refer to as the "Scandinavian shape" to the foot - ie, sort of rounded and not very fashionable, but I absolutely needed something that would carry me through winter and they have great soles and the coziest of linings. Also, they're absurdly comfortable, which is a difficult thing for me to find because my feet are so wide. I think they are cute enough to stand up to scrutiny but this thread is making me nervous. (NB: Definitely cuter than the Ecco shoes linked here.)
Ttam's taste in shoes is demonstrating what I have been noticing - British men tend to have more interesting (and more stylish) footwear than Americans.
264: perhaps there's a colored pocket-square folding exercise which could communicate all that? a muted puce lined backed with white or something? I don't know that there's a handy chart to consult, it's not as if they were flowers, which have clear meanings.
Maybe one of these unicorn print pocket squares?
261: as well as the NF knobber look, you could be a SHARP skinhead
God I always hated SHARPs, so many of those guys were so full of shit. ("Hated" is a bit strong. "Distrusted," maybe. Any current or former SHARPs in the present company are excepted, of course. Some of my best friends and all that.)
re: 266
A discreet lapel badge of some kind? Interlocking 9s? Dollar sign in a wee noose?
re: 268
I think there was always rather more cross-over between the SHARP types and the Blood and Honour types than they'd let on.
I know the skinhead bouncer at a rock club I used to go to, with various badges on his jacket which seemed to indicate some sort of vague SHARP allegiances, and who was positively encyclopedic on 50s and 60s Jamaican music, was definitely a Combat 18 member.
272: positively encyclopedic on 50s and 60s Jamaican music
Yeah, the continuing entanglement with a weirdly contradictory reverence for rudie culture seems to be a common theme everywhere there are skins.
270: Like West Side Story but without Natalie Wood?
I'm very bad at selling anything but I make up for it by being very bad at buying anything.
274: If West Side Story had been about the Jets and their slightly-more-liberal cousins the "Jets For Tolerance" all going out to stomp Puerto Ricans together.
I've only met two people from Puerto Rico in my whole life, so I assume somebody stomped them.
267: definitely the olive. it's the most communicative.
yeah, there were lots of asshole SHARP skins, but let's face it, lots of skinheads are assholes. I myself at one time had little or no hair and wore doc martens and buddy holly glasses, in what was mostly an effort to stop street harassment, which failed. nonetheless, when a fight broke out, it was always nice to see a huge black skinhead at a club we frequented wade in and start throwing racist skins around like little racist rag dolls that knew a suspicious amount about ska. he was a...conflicted person. he also knew an amazing amount about ska.
277: objectively awesome.
moby, have you ever been to new york?
I tried to buy my son some fabulous white lace-up leather shoes when we were in Argentina, but he chickened out.
Is it so much to hope that your son will have more style that you do?!!?
I've been to New York three times for a combined total of maybe five days. I use the obvious tourist-protection safeguards and don't talk to anyone while I'm there.
I added the shoes I wanted to get my son to the group pool.
re: 283
Heh. By rights he needs a purple velvet fedora and an ankle-length white fur coat to go with those.
275: For me, that is one of the most cringe-inducing bits of cinema (could not even watch it again). The inner private hell side of Baldwin's ABC speech.
Fur coat picture added. Sadly, not white.
Heartwarming story about British racist
(found via a sneering story in The Mirror)
263: I can't stop laughing imagining the hanky code involving pocket squares, like with a double-breasted suit. I hope there was also an ascot code and maybe a boutonnière code. There's rosemary, that's for bondage. Pray, love, remember the safe word.
I have not yet the thread but feel I should note that M/tch wears those EXACT shoes almost every day. Are you calling him a Nazi, Stanley? Are you? Because he will crack your head wide open.
290: No, I want M/tch and I to be not-Nazis together! But (almost) everyone is trying to convince me to get something else.
279: it was always nice to see a huge black skinhead at a club we frequented wade in and start throwing racist skins around like little racist rag dolls that knew a suspicious amount about ska. he was a...conflicted person. he also knew an amazing amount about ska.
I have to admit, that's kind of a heartwarming image. I am the studio audience in an old sitcom going awwwww.
Cole Haan had some nice casual-ish loafers with Nike Air technology. My hair stylist was wearing a pair of Cole Haans with Nike Air since he's on his feet all day. They retail between $168 and $198, but both Nordstrom's and Zappos have sales.
Air Adams Venetian (dressy)
Air Keating Venetian (less dressy)
Moby, if you like a pair of shoes with leather soles enough, pre-emptively get a cobbler to put rubber over the heel and toe.
Is Emerson posting here now? He hates these shoe threads with a passion, as I recall.
Motherfuckers, the whole lot of you. Shoes!
I'm sworn to stay away from threads that make me mad. Of course, my impulse control in certain contexts is sort of like Alameida's
||
Life is annoying. I'm home sick today with an inexplicable blinding headache (apparently viral -- both kids had it earlier this week). And just remembered that I'm covering a court appearance on Monday for a colleague who hadn't given me the papers yet. It's all soluble with use of UPS Overnight, but if no one had remembered during work hours it could have gotten problematic; I don't have the colleague's cell number at home.
|>
295: I kept wearing down the rubbee heels of my leather-soled shoes until I had hard rubber plates attached to the backs of the heels. Of course I'm wearing right through the plates, but it's taking a little longer, and they're cheaper than resoling.
OTOH it only took me a month or so to completely grind off the toe plates on my loafers. (Can't put anything on the soles of my other shoes if I want to be able to dance.)
Should have said "cheapger than reheeling".
Whereas dancing in loafers is a lost cause already...
The next time I am in LA, I am totally making Halford meet me at the Neiman Marcus bar 11am on a weekday. We can get loaded and pick out Charvet ties.
297: I'm home sick today as well, I hope people don;t compare notes and have done more useful work today than any other day this week.
I think this may be the first sick day I've taken at this job for being sick -- I took a day off to get that bit of cancer off my neck, but I don't recall having been sick as such for the last three years. I should really look up whatever happens to an overaccumulation of sick days.
Hey, I'm home sick with a cold (I'm being lazyconscientious). Pajama party!
I'm at work, but have been very sick all week, also with some weird headache -- it's a cold, but the main effect isn't being stuffed up, but having an intense headache and feeling like I'm about to pass out. I think we've all given each other some kind of virus over the intertube. It's like a J-Horror film!!
It's a good thing you haven't been recently exposed to any possible vector for the spread of alarming diseases.
Oudemia, you rock. I am now in possession of these shoes and I had a delicious 1/2 tofu Banh Mi and 1/2 vegetarian pho for lunch. Thank you so much!
306 -- you mean like how I had sex with Eggplant and Stormcrow?
307: I'm so pleased! It's so rare that I am useful! (Also, CA has those shoes. They're great.)
305: OK then. Who's been to which Chili's in the last few weeks, which bathroom did you use, and what did you do in there?
hey, my impulse control isn't as bad as all that. I've been sober 5 years now, remember? I'm just crazy now, that's different. my doc wants me in the psych ward so I don't impulsively off myself. um, OK, I think I just lost that argument.
she says if it didn't kill me the first time it can't possibly kill me now; I already lived through it. it's nice that she has a high opinion of me but I think her reasoning is flawed.
312: This is why it's so hard to shrink smart people.
So, are we going to get live blogging? It's therapeutic!
And seriously, I hope things improve.
I wear my high school purchased doc martens to work when it is rainy and i don't want to damage my nice (but no too cool for work) shoes
Clearly, all the home-sick people contracted the shoe virus.
oh god the shoes in 156 are horrifying. But maybe that was trolling, because that post includes
"okay for anything from the Olive Garden"
"40: yes, really. For men, brogues/wingtips are considered the least formal shoe that's properly formal enough to wear with a suit (and a few traditionalists still think they're slightly too informal for that)."
this is one of those rules, like 'don't wear black suits during the day' that noone who doesn't have a trust fund or post on askandy knows.
311, 312: We expect menu-blogging. (and good luck with everything.)
she says if it didn't kill me the first time it can't possibly kill me now; I already lived through it. it's nice that she has a high opinion of me but I think her reasoning is flawed.
I am thinking that if you really feel like you could use a nice vacation without the kids, just bumming around and hanging out, then a hospital stay is great. If you're feeling pressured because of what other people want, then consult the Voices. If they all say no, I'd go, otherwise, relax.
max
['Whatever keeps you OK, kiddo.']
318: Heh. I wear a pair of these pretty much every day, though I haven't been to an Olive Garden in at least 15 years.
Your shoes are kind of square in the toe, Apo, but otherwise handsomely not goofy. yoyo doesn't speak english very well, and did not grasp 156 fully.
Doc Martens makes a loafer! Could I rock these? I think I would need a brown belt, and I'm not sure my current brown belt would go with them.
If I can be honest, I don't like the Doc loafers as much as the regular lace-ups. The loafers look kind of like clogs. Which are fine, of course. Am I wrong in thinking the, erm, tongue part comes up higher on the clogs loafers than on the lace-ups?
They would be harder to dress up.
I find the shoes in 325 confusing and hideous, but I'm sure Stanley's feet would give them a warm, comforting glow.
I keep meaning to get some actual steel-toed Docs, but never getting around to it.
In my experience, at least by the early 1990s, skinheads had stopped examining shoelaces because it got about as confusing as various hanky codes, and skinheads are just not as smart as queer people, even when they are queer themselves.
The thing about SHARP/RASH skinheads is that they would always rail against the perfidy of "fence-sitters", i.e. apolitical types who had both racist and anti-racist friends, but then practically everybody had flirted (often literally) with a bit of fence-sitting at one time or another. Of course, you didn't want to bring that up to them.
I dunno. I like Docs okay, stylistically, but now that I have a pair of Wescos (bought as factory seconds), Docs seem like kind of a joke as a shoe. Quality has gone down, and I doubt very much that even the best Docs from the old days were half as good as a factory second pair of Wescos.
325 -- it's kind of hard to tell if you're making a subtle joke. If so, well played. If not, appropriate for a date with VW to the Olive Garden, but not much else.
322: fuck, the Voices all say 'NO' and they have lots and lots of good reasons. when my partner pissed me off so bad the other day telling me I wasn't actually crazy and I was being psychologically hypochondriacal I wanted to reach out and yank the fucking steering wheel all the way to the left and roll her little fucking van off the edge of the highway just where it's starting to rise towards rochor, and down into the oncoming lanes. I didn't tell her that because it's kind of awkward: hey, I sort of wanted to kill you day before yesterday in a hideous car accident, but, we cool. she loves me very much and is being genuinely thoughtful and helpful. I wasn't really going to do that, anyway, just to prove a point. it was only a fleeting thought.
chinese thoughtfulness comes off as critical 80% of the time but is well-intentioned. she meant, given that you're so great and accomplish so many things it's not possible that you're crazy. she herself suffers from depression so I don't know what she's thinking there.
Pfft. We won the rugby world cup. (The Scot in me finds it impossible not to feel sorry for the French. Beautiful losers, right?)
(That was not really a `pfft craziness isn't as important as sport' pfft. that was a pfft shoes? fuck shoes pfft.)
To be honest I was pretty absurdly depressive this year. It worked out ok-ish in the long run, i guess, because I think the worst things I fucked up were arbitrary performance measurements no-one cares about. (I think. I think that's all.) But it was really horrible to live through. (There were a couple of weeks where I remember not-entirely-seriously wondering how to turn a tree and a rope into a noose; thankfully the absurdity of looking such things up always shook me out of it.)
But yes. That really sucked. Especially because instead of doing anything sensible about it, I just fumed and sat around and blah. And now that I am not hugely unhappy and depressed it all looks so easy! But it wasn't, not really. And blah. Fuck minds, right?
I learned how to tie a noose at summer camp. Surprisingly easy! Getting it to work right is trickier.
Yeah, nooses are pretty basic when you get down to it. A friend was doing a bunch of work with nooses, which was I think where I got the idea from, roughly.
(Good lord, this is a parody of the sporting maudlin, isn't it?)
Doc Martens makes a loafer! Could I rock these? I think I would need a brown belt
Brown belt .... or brown shirt.
And this thread as convinced me once again that shoes should be seen and not heard talked about.
Doc Martens makes a loafer! Could I rock these? I think I would need a brown belt
Karate qualifications have not been a prerequisite for Doc Martens purchase for years now.
334: I knew my hangman's drop at some point but that was really just a Wednesday Addams affectation.
Poor Stanley! How's a man supposed to tell which sort of shoes are a good bet for the third pair in his arsenal, with all this nattering on and dithering and holding of noses and winking?!
Someone, size 8 or 10, should buy these, as they are on sale and kinda bitchin'.
The number of people talking about suicide around these parts was lower back before Sifu brought up shoes. Just sayin'.
329 was me, if that wasn't obvious.
Riding the bus downtown last night, I noticed that the Orpheum was hosting the Scottish Ballet, and I thought "Wow, fertile field for jokes there!" But then I thought, wait, I know a Scot on the internet, and he's a real person with feelings just like me, so I'm going to refrain from making those jokes.
Instead, I'll ask:
Q: How are $10 bills like candles?
A: They're made from a pair of fins!
Wokka-wokka-wokka
340: You know, or he could just buy whatever shoe he freaking wants. My only recommendation is that he buys ones sturdy enough to stomp any motherjumper who gives him shit about how they look.
343: those are sweet; I am a size 10 (or, more often, 10.5); but I couldn't pull off wearing them.
346: I suggest solidarity among the frumpy old men. He should get a pair of eccos or keens. Or, if he wants DMs, he should get those. They really don't scream Nazi any more. At all.
That said, I wore DMs when I tended bar back in the day. And I didn't find them nearly as comfortable as keens, eccos, or any of the other more comfortable shoes that are available for purchase at better stores.
The front page of TPM suggests that Rick Perry is incredibly craggy. And I have to say, I find his crags rather presidential. I think Obama should dye his hair white, like Morgan Freeman, and then pencil in freckles. Then this would be a fair race.
345: You know two Scots! (Unless you have the inside scoop that ajay is a replicant . . .?)
re: 351
3, depending on how Keir counts himself.
352: I was wondering about Keir, too. Keir, if you had to play for a national football team, would it be Scotland or NZ? Alternately, are you a replicant?
351: Right, but I wouldn't feel as bad if I was just making fun of ajay's nationality. I was not clear on Keir.
350: Rick Perry is quite craggy, yes. It's almost refreshing, in its way.
A person gets so tired, though, of presidential optics. Michele Bachmann looked like hell this morning on the Sunday talk shows (really, not good, compared to a clip they showed of her back in just May of this year). Herman Cain looks kind of cherubic. Nobody seemed to want to say that their prescriptions for running the country are demented. There was praise for Cain's 999 plan as 'simple, and bold, which is what the country generally wants to hear.' Yeah, well, whatever.
You really have to stop watching the Sunday morning shows, parsimon. Really. No good comes of that sort of self-abuse. You'll go blind. You'll get hair on your palms. And you'll become notably stupider. Honestly, I swore off network news after the 2000 election, cable news after the Swiftboating of Kerry, and NPR after Katrina. I'm considerably happier, sleep better at night, and have fresher breath. My shoes are still ugly, though.
356 could be me, except my shoes aren't ugly, and I never watched cable news except at airports.
That is, even people who don't wear ugly shoes know better than to watch the Sunday morning shows.
except my shoes aren't ugly
Prove it, mountain man.
Now: http://www.obozfootwear.com/site/oboz-mens-sawtooth-mid.html?id=YTzrhxx8:75.175.249.214
Last night at dinner (very fancy place [$60 pp]; I wore jeans & button-down): http://www.justinboots.com/boots/western.html?424fccf8=1409
356: Yes, I never watch, but this morning after watching the Man City shellac Man U I switched over to This Week thinking, "How bad could it be with Christine Amanpour ?" The answer is dreadful. Some inane conventional wisdom recap of the week in news and then the balanced panel of George Will, Matthew Dowd, Donna Brazille and Jake Tapper. They were all about to agree that maybe, just maybe*, the Ghadafi thing would immunize Obama against Republican attacks that he is a pussy when I turned it off, not sticking around for the interview with John McCain. Frank Luntz was also on there for a bit complaining that the Republican candidates R DOING IT WRONG!
*I think he also has to kill Unemployment with his bare hands.
356: NPR is not that bad. On the other fronts, it's an exercise in knowing the enemy, in order to know what mainstream America is hearing, in order to know just how hard we have to fight. Answer: we do have to fight back, pretty hard. Contra e.g. Megan, Obama does not have this.
I need that reminder, need to know what else is being said out there.
|| Football question for the Californians: is the UC Davis - Sac State game already a thing? They'll be in the same conference next year -- so when the Cats beat Davis, it'll count -- so I suppose it'll mean more. Unless football at Davis is too far under the radar for use of the concept of "meaning."|>
362: Oh. Yeah, Christiane Amanpour's show is, sadly, pretty bad, even as Sunday shows go. Meet the Press is slightly more intelligent. I'm kind of bummed about Amanpour's show's decline. She's basically phoning it in, and George Will has an endowed chair over in the corner there, she doesn't like him, it's all pretty bad except for Donna Brazille. Jake Tapper can be quite good when he's given free rein, which he is not. It's a dysfunctional thing in the aggregate.
360 - so for those second pair of boots, do you wear your jeans tucked in, or over the top?
I mean no offense, parsimon, but you have got to be the only person under 60 and not in the DC area who watches any of those shows regularly.
I wear them more often with suits than with jeans.
367: Yeah, I know, about the Sunday shows. It's like this: they'd never remotely been on my radar until about two years ago. I otherwise take in pretty much no mainstream news, aside from NPR. I thought it was conceivable that I was living in a bubble or something, so I started watching these things. Now I actually don't mind seeing Hilary Clinton or Lindsay Graham (spit) or John Kerry or John McCain or whomever speaking to an interviewer. The fact of the matter is that the Village doesn't ignore them, and the Village has power, so probably I should see what they have to say for themselves. Despite what Wafer says upthread, it doesn't make me notably stupider.
Shorter me: it's a phase, probably. I'd be better off in a drumming circle of a Sunday morn.
370 -- Don't you already know what they think without having to actually listen to them say it? The Village is so completely predictable.
Am I wrong in thinking the, erm, tongue part comes up higher on the clogs loafers than on the lace-ups?
The word you're looking for is vamp. The vamp is the part that comes up on the top of your foot.
Also, I too can tie a noose. I learned from a boy scout on a church youth group trip to Arkansas.
OT: Am I the only one who wants the NFL announcers to ask Tim Tebow for what, precisely, he is thanking his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?
371: Not necessarily, no. I didn't completely realize how the Republican panoply was coming down so hard against our 'full' withdrawal from Iraq, and the overthrow of Qaddafi (sp) in Libya. It was instructive to watch their "Be afraid, be very afraid" routine.
In the reverse direction, occasionally one can witness some kind of pulling back from the positions one would otherwise predict.
We can read other people reporting on this, of course. Sometimes I like to see the expressions on their actual faces.
Nice boots. Clicking around I read the heritage page. FWIW, Warren Buffet likes the boots too.
364: one of the many insane plans floating around campus at the moment is to double or triple or quadruple down on football, so that we can compete with the BCS schools. Now, this is obviously insane in about twenty-six ways: we don't have the money; that's a closed club, run by the most corrupt fuckers in the country; nobody, at least nobody who thinks that universities are supposed to be focus on education, wants to be part of a club like that; there's something appalling about providing a free minor league for the NFL owners; other schools in the area have such a huge head start that we'll never, ever make up the stagger; football here used to be fun when we were D-II and winning championships; and many, many more. But, the administration, which is probably showing its true colors this year, apparently already spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on the consultant that told them that this is what "excellence" means, so maybe we'll do it. Anyway, UC Davis-Sac State? Nobody gives a flying fuck. The Raiders, Niners, Cal Bears, and Stanford Cardinal are all a reasonably big deal around here. Everything else is noise.
376: Are they trying to cultivate alumni interest and/or money? That seems to be the only remotely positive effect (severely outweighed by the negatives) of big-time college sports, and even that seems unlikely to grow out of nothing.
377: A good rushing drive is a thing beauty to be appreciated for its own intrinsic value.
The modern game is a passing contest, Moby.
377: yes, precisely. But the big money in this region is already in the hip pocket of Stanford, Cal, and UCLA. In the Central Valley, we've got a few car dealers, some big ag folks (the Mondavis come to mind), and various and sundry minor real estate moguls. Slim pickings, I'm afraid, if you want to build a contender.
In the end, the whole thing is almost certainly a fool's errand, made all the more foolish because there's a vast and growing academic literature on the scam that is college sports. (But do the administrators here read this literature? I honestly don't know. It seems not.) The promise of money is illusory, the scholars say; a money pit is more like it. But then again, university presidents do like to hobnob with Kirk Herbstreit, Chris Fowler, and the like.
379: I'm kind of a traditionalist Big 10/12 fan.
(But do the administrators here read this literature? I honestly don't know. It seems not.)
They might at least read the Atlantic, which just ran a cover story on the scam that is college sports.
377/380: plus cultivating alumni money/interest doesn't help if that money just has to go to the sports program that cultivated their interest in the first place.
The timing alone would seem to weigh against this particular bit of insanity. Can the faculty say boo? A mere 50 years ago at a Ohio State coached by Woody Hayes this happened:
In 1961 the team went undefeated to be named national champions by the FWAA but a growing conflict between academics and athletics over Ohio State's reputation as a "football school" resulted in a faculty council vote to decline an invitation to the Rose Bowl, resulting in much public protest and debate.Imagine that today. And there is no lower form of discourse in the country today than that surrounding the "national shame" of there not being a National playoff system.
386: Of course, there is the Wayne Woodrow Hayes Chair in National Security Studies to consider.
They might at least read the Atlantic, which just ran a cover story on the scam that is college sports.
Thanks. I'll send a copy to the chancellor. No, seriously.
389: It is hard to imagine any other single act the school could take that would further lower it in the eyes of the non-administration academic community than a move to big D-I football. Tell him you know a bunch of internet aliases that feel that way. I'm just gobsmacked that this thought even exists at a school in the UC system in 2011.
Justin boots are high fashion Deep Springer-wear. I never got a pair when I was there, though I did manage to acquire a big black cowboy hat that got blown off my hair when I rode, and in civilian use make me look like a Hasidic Jew. Excellent rain protection though.
I am tempted by 343. Though "on sale" is deceptive to the extent that it suggests "reasonably priced."
Oh, we went D-I years ago (a move made despite 80% of the faculty voting against it). Now, we're just contemplating not sucking as much at football, which, if one surveys the landscape of non-sucky football programs, is a VERY costly endeavor. Fortunately, the UC is awash in cash right now. I mean, we've only raised tuition by ~30% over the past three years, so it's not like we can't keep soaking our students.
Honestly, the older I get, the more I realize that these people -- administrators, many of my colleagues, state legislators, the President of the United States -- are who we thought they were. And there's not much left to do other than to put our bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and to try to make it stop. But don't tell anyone I said that, okay? Because I'm up for promotion next year, and I've apparently already got a bit of a reputation among upper administrators as something a problem around here.
352: Um, if I had to pick a football team, it'd probably be New Zealand, I think. Thankfully in 82 I wasn't that concerned with football, or in fact anything much, so I couldn't suffer any interesting crises of loyalty.
Oh, we went D-I years ago
That's why I said *big* D-I. That's when you go all in for corruption at every level of the school--tutors to president and everyone in between.
The Rugby squeaker just finished replaying here on network TV on delay. Interesting choice to go head-to-head with the NFL (not that NBC has anything else that can compete on a Sunday afternoon.
That's why I said *big* D-I.
Ah, your nuance went right over my head. But honestly, what we should probably do is return to D-II.
Apparently the commentary was shocking? That was far far too close a game to watch comfortably.
But honestly, what we should probably do is return to D-II.
Or people who want to play football could do what people who want to play, I don't know, ultimate do, and just organize shit themselves.
Ha! What am I thinking? That would never, ever happen.
However, despite recent intensification, it is hard to call out the corrupting influence of big time college football as a recent thing since both Thurber and Faulkner both had stories in which it featured.
398.1: Wouldn't know, I don't watch enough rugby to have an opinion. I suspect it was "elementarized" for the American audience. I played for a number of years, many, many years ago and confess I am confused somewhat about some of the changes in rules since that time.
399: god, yes. Throw your body upon the gears, neb!
398.2: Yes, that last French "push" somewhat near the end must have been excruciating for supporters of both sides.
"Both" is one of those words that start sounding particularly odd when you repeat it over and over.
Eh, everybody is confused about the rule changes, it is one of the standing jokes in rugby these days.
Yes, that last French push was quite scary. One point, one penalty or one dropped goal, and it was over. Not hugely pleasant.
Still, a very good game of ruby in the end.
Still, a very good game of ruby in the end.
I still prefer Python.
329.3: The thing about SHARP/RASH skinheads is that they would always rail against the perfidy of "fence-sitters"
Wasn't the weirdest of things they'd do, either.
Actual quote from a guy who introduced himself to our party of friends as a SHARP: "So, guys, I've got like this tape? We should play it, it's almost just like, it sounds a little racist at first but it's actually just really funny? Let's check it out." We put it in and listen to four bars, and it's Rahowa. "Honestly, I just like them for the music" (also an actual quote).
Ahhhhh, good times. When I see these same guys out at the club these days in their "skinhead retirement plan" gear, I shake my head and smile fondly, like Michael Landon watching the birth of a foal on the wide prairie.
VW, you should come to an Ag-Griz game when they come up here. It's really a lot of fun. FCS is big enough to matter -- some Griz make the NFL pretty much every year, I think -- but small enough that the corruption is something less than high school football in Texas.
Ags played MSU at home last year, so they'll probably play UM in Msla next year. A great welcome to the conference to play in a sold out 25,000 seat stadium in a town of 67,000. I'll email you when the schedule comes out. We'll fill you up with bongwater, and you and the fam can spend the night in Sun Valley on the way home.
Australian Rules Football is fun to watch. Maybe American colleges should try that.
410: as I think you know, it doesn't take much to lure me to Missoula. Or to Bozeman, for that matter. On the other hand, I've probably already spent about as much time in Billings as I need to, thanks.
Billings is constantly changing so you should check back once or twice a year.
I remember Davis football actually being actually pretty decent in Division 2. Are they in 1-AA (or FCS or whatever)? I can't see why that would be a good idea.
Also, if there's any big money in central valley sports at all, it seems to be in Fresno. Less without Tarkanian, though.
That's a lot of actuallys. Really.
I think a surprising amount of top-level college administrators think that the university is or already has failed so they can do anything they want 'cause it can't get worse.* Also, you've got to spend money to make money, amiright?
*Someone, possibly in Florida?, pretty much said as much in an NYT article on online courses last year. Asked about graduation rates and learning outcomes, his response was pretty much, our stats already suck, so you can't say what we're doing is working, so why not do this? It's (probably) cheaper too! The stats weren't actually that bad, especially for a big public university.
Just think of all the other things these universities could do with their money instead of football. Hire me, for instance.
Drinking beer and watching you would take the heart out of fall.
I lived in Billings for five years in the 80s. It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be.
a very good game of ruby in the end
I went to band practice already knowing the outcome but had to bite my tongue because my Aussie/French bandmate had avoided all news sources ahead of the delayed NBC airing of the game.
You're a considerate bandmate, Stanley.
You were able to not come in too early?
Prior to band practice, we had a brunch potluck. I brought black seedless grapes. I didn't know black grapes existed.
That's something Stanley's struggled with for a long time, Blandings, and it isn't nice to bring it up in such a public forum.
WHAT did you bring black seedless grapes, Stanley?
On a river of coffee, on a boat made of croissant.
OT: You know of what I could do with a little less? Crushes on girls in happy relationships with friends. This is not mitigated by my suspicion that, had the timing been different, it could have worked. Quite the contrary!
I'd thought I'd outgrown this sort of behavior, but it turns out I just didn't have any male friends for a long time.
I was just tonight singing the praises of OKCupid to my relatively newly single housemate. It works! Sometimes! You get to meet people outside your friend group!
I really should do OKCupid, but it feels like filling out a dating CV.
As long as you aren't hanging out with them to get a chance to smell her shoes, it will probably turn out fine.
433: And getting to read others' CVs. You probably don't want to date most people anyway. Might as well pre-screen.
It's much safer to stay here with my cats and pine.
Just be careful not to get that sticky crap from the needles all over your stuff.
How wonderful that you have a pine to keep you company!
Yes, pine in particular can be a great comfort.
Well ain't that a kick in the arboreal teeth.
Now everybody make cat jokes!
I thought about saying "pine away", but I wanted to see the resultant logjam.
Mmm, logjam. I like spread on sourdough.
445: I wanted to see the resultant logjam
Personally, I didn't feel it was Karl Hungus' best work, but whatever floats your boat.
I don't see the point of logjam; let the trees speak their own languages!
Which type of wood is best for making boats anyway? Is pine particularly buoyant?
450: Historical records imply gopher wood has amazing properties.
450: more than you'd expect; surprising pine lifts all boats.
I'm not totally sure I get 449, but if I understand correctly Logjam would make it completely unambiguous.
436: for you I pine, for you I balsam.
457: Learned that one from Stuart Little.
Many different unrelated plants evolved into trees at various times; Plane trees are more like lotuses than they are like oaks, and honey locusts are closer to peas than to most other trees. None of these decayed into coal, that's from a simpler large plant that was basically club moss.
You kids probably never even heard of Euell Gibbons.
The internet apparently doesn't have video of Euell saying Ever eat a pine tree? Many parts are edible.
464: I have a copy of John McPhee's A Roomful of Hovings, which includes "A Forager", not 10 feet from me.
Do they still make that pine gum? It was kinda gross.
Spruce gum?
I don't know. I remember getting some that was commercially packaged as a small child.
Why they chose that particular packaging remains a mystery.
465: But it comes up very early in this Match Game clip.
||
Unrelatedly, WTF is up with this craziness in Alabama? I know most of y'all here aren't going to be on board with any Nat Turner/Harriet Tubman/John Brown-style actions, but couldn't we at least get some Freedom Riders down there or something? It's a goddamn embarrassment to the whole country. Makes those Arizona Nazis look reasonable by comparison.
Sigh. I need to look up some of my Canadian anarchist friends and find one who'll take a few grand to marry me.
||>
458: casts self down on the bed in abject shame and misery at poor recollection.
380: USC doesn't get money from NorCal. There's a big donor to Harvard whose husband went to Harvard, but who went to USC so she gives about half of her money to USC. But, of course, she lives in the LA area.
380: Should/be "USC doesn't get money from NorCal?" USC doesn't seem poor. That's the only reason that I was asking.
