Re: Things That Might Be Sad


Just in time for Christmas! Experiences are better than material things.

"kids, Santa brought you a long car ride!"

Sure, they might not appreciate it now. But they will later.

Although they prob will not object too much if you give them some Valium.

(I once had a client who lost custody of her kids bc she gave her daughter an ambien.- we got the kids back!)

Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 6:49 AM
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Valium and Ambien seem rather hardcore for children, especially when there is Benadryl.

Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 6:55 AM
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it's times like these that I remember that my mom is pretty fucking awesome.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 6:57 AM
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Is there really much difference between the three??? The impact is short.

Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 6:58 AM
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Kid starts talking like GHW Bush, you know you've got a problem. Nitty gritty great speckled bird.

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:07 AM
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[H]er preferred long car drive strategy was to give all the kids valium.

Christ, I thought my mother was difficult.

Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:15 AM
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Of course, there isn't much need to give your kids Valium if you take it yourself.

Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:35 AM
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"When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car".

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:39 AM
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I mentioned to The Missus yesterday that people sometimes mistake my heartwarming childhood memories for tales of child abuse. But I haven't got any stories like this.

Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:53 AM
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OK so definitely sad then? I obviously don't have good judgment in these matters. anyway. obviously she wasn't wasting all the good drugs on us, that would be stupid. or tranxene, you guys remember tranxene? whatever happened to that shit?

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:20 AM
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You know, if you give the kids Dramamine to deal with car sickness, and it just happens to make them go to sleep, you are protected by the doctrine of double effect. The sedation was a foreseen consequence of an intentional action, but it was not an intentional consequence.

Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:42 AM
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alameida, you should commission James McMurtry to write your family a song.

Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:45 AM
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One of the side effects of tranxene, per Wiki, is "reluctance to suck". This is obviously one of the cases when The Man is using "science" to impose his values on others.

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:48 AM
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As I say twice a year, Alameida should write a Southern Gothic novel, perhaps on the model of Petronius or Apuleius.

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:49 AM
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My aunt and uncle had ten kids so the family always moved in two cars. Another uncle of mine, childless, went to help them move from Utah to New Mexico. He always talked about driving through the mountains with five kids in a car, the older of which would be asked to mix drinks and pass them up to the driver.

Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:50 AM
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Sad but far from rare historically.

Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:52 AM
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16: no way, if my mom had morphine she'd be holding back on that like a bitch. immediate release morphine syrup for breakthrough pain--I won't lie to you, people, it's fucking good times.
14: I lack...ambition? willingness to epically piss off everyone in my family? it can't be the latter, really, since you could mix things around plenty. the ability to complete tasks? intrinsic worth as a human being?
I hate to say that I personally at this moment am suffering "paradoxical" effects from valium, a rebound that fucks up the thing you were taking it to fix. agitation, insomnia. nausea, even. everything motherfucking junkies hate. not like anyone else likes them, but we hate'em special. or else I've gotten manic again in the last 2 days. NO. I'm feeling SO much better, I do NOT want to get depressed again. if I'm getting manic I'll get depressed and NO. I AM NOT DOING THAT. that was scary and not fun.

I would have a couple of xanax to take to solve this particular momentary problem if I hadn't given my merc friend! he begged them off me, successfully, because he is homicidally depressed. well, and suicidally, but he's really hell-bent on taking everyone out if he goes. persistent homicidal ideation...yeah, it sounds bad. he cares about me enough to kill me, if you see what I mean. well, and that's why he's telling me, surely. the kids would be the worst, of course. bust out the day planner bitches, it's time to see the psychiatrist! one fucking week I miss and this already. fuck.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 9:17 AM
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on the bright side, more posting for you guys! gah. I'm going to bed. I'll be OK, just tired and cranky.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 9:20 AM
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Can't he get his own prescriptions? I mean, he sounds like he's the sort of person shrinks would prescribe that sort of thing for, and he has the money for medical care and such. Leaving the whole "How good an idea is it to hang out with the guy generally" question (answer: probably not very, but it's not like you haven't thought through the issues) out of it, I think it sounds like a lousy idea to be informally providing him with your prescription drugs. (A) you need them; (B) he's in a 12-step program, and it's probably better for his sobriety to be handling possibly abusable drugs as formally as possible (and also probably better for yours to be thinking about them as formally as possible) and; (C) given the notorious uptightness of the Narnian authorities, couldn't you maybe get in legal trouble for handing out prescription drugs?

This is, I'm sure, all blitheringly obvious, and not in an area I know much about, but still.

Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 9:59 AM
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Basically OT, really this is just for the people ragging about the 1970s a few days ago.

Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 10:48 AM
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19.first: Betcha it's an "I can't get my own prescriptions until Monday at the earliest" situation.

Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 10:55 AM
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21: yeah. he's seeing his shrink on the 17th. he promised me before he wouldn't ask me again because it is such a shit maneuver, but...
honestly, people mildly threatening to kill you could be stressful all on its own. maybe I should consider that.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 11:05 AM
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Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 11:06 AM
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but, yeah, why am I talking to him? he still owes me a shit ton of money is one thing. obviously he's being late in paying so I have to keep talking to him. also, I'm crazy.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 11:07 AM
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Mr. Tumnus's Collections Service?

Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 11:25 AM
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My son had a paradoxical reaction to paregoric. That was lots of fun when the other three people in the family were also in the midst of the flu. Mind altering shit just doesn't work right for my family.

Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 11:49 AM
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Mr. Tumnus's Collections Service?

One hates to stereotype, but expecting a faun to muscle funds out of witches, werewolves and I'm pretty sure minotaurs seems naive at best.

Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 11:50 AM
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24: You're manic again, is why.

Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 11:55 AM
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Mom sent me off on weekends with dad, on account of I was too young to remember the crazy times and so was the only kid not to be scared of dad. I have deep fond memories of dozing in the front seat of one of his VW bugs, still small enough to lay across with my head in his lap without getting in the way of the stick shift. That sense of security of a long car ride, having absolute confidence in the driver because you're too inexperienced to know better ...

Yeah, dosing the kids isn't what everybody would do, but the contentment half-sleeping on a long car ride doesn't seem sad to me. "To each other, we were as normal and nice as the smell of bread."

Posted by: Zb | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 12:15 PM
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It's not like Valium is that hard to score, particularly in se Asia. Well, the non-narnia parts, anyway. You go to a pharmacy, make the sleepy gesture, and bob's your uncle. For an international malefactor, this guy is pretty needy.

Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 12:34 PM
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My late partner Marsha took tranxene to deal with the muscle spasms in her legs. (She had multiple sclerosis.) She didn't like the mental effects, so eventually got an infusion pump that fed small amounts directly into her spinal cord, giving her the muscle relaxation without affecting her head. She was a recovering heroin addict, but she didn't find the tranxene to be distracting and fun, just distracting tout court.

Posted by: Yarrow | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 12:44 PM
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After reading 19, I can't think of a single thing to say. Oh wait, yes I can: 5 mg of Valium is a FUCKING HUGE dose for a kid. Well, assuming the kid weighs under 75 pounds. And 10 mg is enough to mellow me way the fuck out even now, and I weigh close to 175 pounds. I mean, I only ever take the stuff when I have to get an an airplane -- though, because it's so delicious, it's tempting to take it all the time -- but I still have a relatively high tolerance for barbiturates.

Anyway, al, I wish you all the best with whatever's ailing you. Happy holidays and whatnot. And may the coming year bring you and yours nothing but good health and much joy.

Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 12:49 PM
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Every since the beginning of time, they lounged around Singapore and Rangoon smoking opium in a yellow pongee silk suit people have experienced happiness, sadness, anger and etc. Who is to say that those people are right or wrong? A functioning police state needs no police. This is a choice of free will that one must make and whatever penetrated forbidden swamps with a faithful native boy. With Gandhi's quote I agree yet disagree with it together. Although our actions come from passion, appetite, lust or anger they are more impulsive, according to Aristotle he argues that we should be held fully responsible for our actions and outcomes based on them.

Communication must become total and conscious before we can stop it.


Posted by: The William Burroughs Stage of Paper Grading | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 12:53 PM
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I'd have thought Narnia probably still had debtor's prisons...

Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 1:07 PM
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27: Well, now that we know Tom Bombadil was Sauron-level evil...

Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 1:51 PM
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17: Paradoxical effects aren't just junkie rebounds. My aunt has always gotten wired off of benadryl, but a tiny amount of a stimulant like dexedrine will put her to sleep.

Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 6:09 PM
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17: 36 is quite right. What you describe sounds just like my own reaction to vicodin, as I discovered after my emergency wisdom-tooth extraction this summer. (Interestingly, my father has the same reaction to vocodin.) In my case it was oddly specific to vicodin, other similar painkillers worked fine when they changed my prescription.

Posted by: Cosma Shalizi | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 6:42 PM
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I'm told it was standard practice to give babies poppy extract in rural Poland well into the fifties. None of that staying up all night cause of a crying baby.

Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 6:44 PM
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38: Never I have more regretted an inherited and elected habit of abjuring, and looking askance at people who tell, ethnic jokes.

Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:07 PM
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Oh, and what do you know: paregoric was apparently available without a prescription in every formerly-Confederate state east of the Mississippi until 1970. Not recommended to calm infants, but historically used for that purpose among others. It looks like it was too low opium content to abuse, but it could be boiled and strained into an injectable liquid.

Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:15 PM
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Also, to be fair, OTC in most of the Midwest and half of New England.

Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:16 PM
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Unfogged seems to have been raptured. For some reason they didn't want you and me.

A lot of drugs of abuse are useful or harmless at low concentrations. The druggie/anti-druggie couple has caused a lot of grief.

A pharmacist told me that people who medically need Adderall can't get it, either because it's all been sold or because production and distribution are restricted. Another is injectable B12.

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:19 PM
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42: How are B12 injections not available?

There's a product called Ener-b which is liquid B12. It used to be available as a nasal gel. Then somebody came up with a prescription nasal B12 product to treat severe deficiency and suddenly it was no longer a dietary supplement but a drug which needed to be regulated.

Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:55 PM
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fuck, man, parsimon is totally right. wait, is she? I slept in till 10:30 today, that was OK. none of my least favorite insomnia where you wake up and then can't go back to sleep (this appears to describe all of human old age, which sounds sucky.) but I don't feel full of energy to do cool stuff, I feel scared. why so scared? hands: not shaky. no, but I'm much more likely to be manic than to have gotten finicky about benzos this late in life god knows. aw, fuck.

also, it really isn't the HUGEST deal to give drugs to children. it's not the A#1 most greatestest child-rearing strategy of ever, but giving children on long trips dramamine is not merely OK due to the doctrine of double-effect, it's also just ok to want to knock them out with chewable dramamine.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 7:56 PM
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43: agreed, where's my B12? my gut problems make me deficient all the time, and now I don't know if the doctor can give me a shot even if he wants to. sub-lingual tablets, meh. in general people should worry less about other people's maybe getting wasted when they don't "deserve" to and more about people being so miserable they want to annihilate themselves all the time. it would be more salutary.

if I suffer another episode of mania I am for fucking sure going to organize this room. there are piles of stuff everywhere. my maid is also, literally at this moment and too-loudly for my pre-coffee ears vacuuming, so it's clean, but it's not tidy, and only I have the capability to organize things.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:02 PM
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All three kids were wacky last night and I was awake at least half of every hour, part of which was explained when Mara ended up with what the ER diagnosed as hives. The point of the story is that I got to give her benadryl and thank goodness gets sleepy rather than hyper on it, though I did redose her right at the 4 hour mark to encourage sleepiness. I was tempted to dose all three but didn't, only in part because I have to document all the meds I give the two in care.

I'm very tempted but not quite sleep-deprived enough to talk about how much my breasts are killing me after a night and day spent too close to our little 45-pounder. Holy shit, though.

Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:06 PM
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Because of allergies, I was on benadryl for much of my childhood. It didn't make me that sleepy, but I was also taking asthma meds that were stimulants.

Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:11 PM
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I certain did and do have allergies, but based on what I've heard later, I don't see why they thought I had asthma.

Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:14 PM
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48: I'm really not sure to what extent Mara has asthma and the only things like a full-blown attack that she's had were before we were even fucking told that she has an asthma diagnosis. I've had her use her inhaler, though, and also taught her to do deep breathing when she's crying hard enough to trigger an attack, which I think is better than when the other kids cry so hard they vomit. I love parenting, right?

Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:20 PM
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thorn: sorry you're not feeling better and I hope that Mara feels better soon. when children scratch themselves they always dig in with their fingernails and yank upwards, sometimes hurting themselves. thus I have found with girl y the most soothing mommy-scratches are with the backs of my nails, away from the head. too long scratching in any one area will somehow trip the histamines out again but it can sooth her long enough to fall asleep. very lightly slapping rather than scratching can also help. also, people are concerned about giving hydrocortisone too much because it can have side effects with prolonged use, but they do mean prolonged, and often where the only other choice is skin-thickening from eczema, so really don't worry about it and just slather that shit on (diluted with cetaphil as needed) yes, I have done this a lot, why do you ask?

you're obviously in a difficult position with having to keep strict medical records but that's a situation in which a mother might decide to give all 3 benadryl and I think it'd be rare to see that as evil or something. more like, it'd be your bad luck one of them reacts paradoxically.
47: one can become habituated to drugs. though I never stopped getting unpleasantly rocked by oral theophyilline, that shit sucks. all the bad things about speed without any of the good things. my stepdad would steal it, but that's a low bar to clear for putative drug-enjoyableness.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:28 PM
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20: Did I miss the '70s discussion? If you threw in a few dreadlocks, keffiyehs and messenger bags that footage could have been shot this year at one of the outdoor concerts on the West Bank. I wish I had been older for the 1970s. Especially in Cedar-Riverside. Those were some wild times indeed. "The old drinking-and-fighting days" as I heard a Native woman I know describe her parents' stories about Franklin Ave. back then.

This society really is hellish, isn't it? Sometimes I just can't bear to think about how fucked up it all is. It's not always darkest before the dawn, either. Before the dawn is that shitty time of the morning when cops bust into peoples houses and throw flash-bang grenades that start fires to kill or maim the occupants.

It's not just uniformly awful either of course, there's fractal dimensions so that the patterns of cruelty and despair repeat ever higher and ever lower. Hierarchy and domination are at the core of our social philosophy, and they spread out in ripples and eddies, concentrations at certain spots that make us forget that the water of oppression covers everything, lapping at our feet or deluging us in a tsunami.

There are people who know how to drink vodka, and there are those who do not know how to drink vodka, but drink it all the same. And so the former take pleasure in misery and in joy, while the latter suffer for all those who drink vodka without knowing how to drink it.

Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:31 PM
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too long scratching in any one area will somehow trip the histamines out again but it can sooth her long enough to fall asleep.

I always ran my hands under hot water until they burned/itched with glee. I was older, teenaged, before I figured that out.

Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:33 PM
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52: I would always hit rather than scratch, and I plan to teach her that. She's learned (presumably by watching her preschool teachers) to do a wig pat rather than a hair pull to fill that need, so she can clearly learn to adapt.

Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:37 PM
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50: Little Alex gets hives a lot, so I'll legitimately dose him soon and see what it does to/for him. The last time he had an outbreak, it's because I was trying to treat his prior outbreak with the lotion his doctor recommended and he was so angry that he broke out in hives on the other side of his face, poor bean. His are almost always thanks to an emotional trigger. I have no idea what was up with Mara's and hers didn't look anything like his, which is why I really wanted that official opinion on it.

But yeah, our social worker is very trusting that we ues our best judgment and that's what we should do and I know their parents would trust us to dose appropriately and (per a conversation earlier today) to be worn out enough to want the kids to sleep but ethical enough not to do anything we shouldn't.

Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 8:41 PM
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you're a great mom and caregiver, and once again I add my voice to the chorus of everyone saying, thorn is amazing! the hits can be light slaps or sort of snaps, either is good.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-11-11 9:33 PM
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My grandfather didn't dose the kids for long car journeys, but he dosed himself - he'd take benzedrine to stay alert before driving the family off on summer holiday (all five kids in the back). Common practice back in the sixties.

Posted by: Ramsay MacDonald | Link to this comment | 12-12-11 8:14 AM
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35: great link. Reminds me of this similar piece of speculation:

Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 12-12-11 8:18 AM
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56: see, that's perfectly reasonable. in my libertarian utopia people will be allowed to write their own scrips, except for antibiotics, which will be doled out only as medically necessary so as not to develop resistant strains of bacteria. plus it'll be against the law to give them to farm animals. additionally, I will have a pony.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-12-11 8:55 AM
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both 35 and 57 are great, particularly the former.

Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-12-11 8:58 AM
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Yeah, I'd seen 57 before, but I find 35 more convincing.

Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-12-11 9:19 AM
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Grandpa MacDonald was indeed allowed to write his own scrips, what with being a doctor.

Posted by: Ramsay MacDonald | Link to this comment | 12-12-11 10:37 AM
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