Re: Oh to be that cat.

1

Concrete floors are cold.

The era to which that apartment's decor refers is as far from us as it was from the Great Depression. The shot of the turntable reminds me of the things at which the Ex grinds her teeth in hate-envy at Hollister Hovey.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 8:51 AM
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The window is awesome, but not exactly insulated. On a day like today, sitting next to it would be like sitting next to a giant ice cube.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:05 AM
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In photoshoots like this, I always wish they would leave the stuff out so you could see more of how the person actually lives. Where is the mail? Doesn't she have any non-picturesque magazines? Where does the sweater she always wears at home get draped when she's not wearing it?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:13 AM
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Though even in its photoshoot-ready state, this apartment looks more lived-in than a lot of them. It has actual supplies around the desk area, for example, and not just a Macbook on a sleek glass desk.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:14 AM
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Too few books.


Posted by: Martin Wisse | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:54 AM
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The cold windows caught my eye too. Brrr. Also, I second Martin's comment.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:01 AM
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I don't think I could stand to live in a house with no dust at all. In all seriousness. It would cramp my style horribly.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:05 AM
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I'm curious about the "too few books" comment. Is it that she has too few books for the space (some of the space used for other things or left open could have books), or that you wouldn't want to live in a space with so little room for books?

I've been in a few book-lined studio apartments, and there's a fine line between cozy and oppressive. But mostly I'm just curious about the fetishistic relationship people have to books, because after always having assumed I would be one of those people, I have since my mid-20s been going through various stages of realizing that I'm not.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:16 AM
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I kept thinking this is a photo of an excruciatingly wealthy person who is enjoying her wealth by wearing an eighteenth-century undergarment as a house dress. Because when you're that fucking rich, you don't need to wear clothes, even when people are taking pictures of you. And it makes you look really comfortable in your money.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:19 AM
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fetishistic relationship people have to books

Me! And I have too many books. Not Collyer level yet. But...


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:35 AM
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9: The law in its majesty permits rich and poor alike to eschew structured waists and corseting 'round yon hearth.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:41 AM
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9: It's funny, the photoshoot didn't reach "excruciatingly rich" to me at all, it read "artist with outstanding taste". (Probably because I don't know Brooklyn well enough to know how much that space actually costs.) Looking at the photos again, it looks to me like the majority of the stuff in her apartment could have been assembled for relatively little money (but a lot of time spent hunting bargains). The wall furniture was the obvious counterexample, but even that I could see finding on the cheap.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:51 AM
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That much space and waterfront views would be killer. Lofts like that in Williamsburg and DUMBO used to be affordable, maybe 9 years ago, for actual artists, but now they're only affordable to Bergdorf's window dressers and TV actors.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:55 AM
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In fairness, AWB some people get rich BY being photographed not wearing clothes. Or not many, anyway.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:55 AM
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for actual artists

Is she not an artist? A quite commercially successful one, granted. This is an actual question; I'm not familiar with window design and don't know where the line is between artistry and product display.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:59 AM
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I have that turntable.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:04 AM
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15: I'm just being pissy because I remember when all the studio artists--including friends of mine--were suddenly evicted from those cheap huge lofts to make room for people with money. It was IIRC the summer of 2004.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:08 AM
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Real estate grudges are what New Yorkers have instead of mellow recollections of lost innocence.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:13 AM
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8

I'm curious about the "too few books" comment. ...

I didn't get it either. One of the pictures shows (in shadow) a pretty big bookcase to the right of the window and books appear in some of the other shots as well. Certainly a lot more books than average.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:14 AM
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Oh hey, maybe I should have R'dTFArticle instead of just looking at the pretty pictures, 'cause she specifically mentions the wall furniture:

Where do you get your furniture from? From all over! Junk and antique stores, flea markets and I look on ebay. The modular Paul Cadovious shelving I have purchased from many different sources and cobbled it together. There is this shady guy in Long Island that I've noticed is selling individual pieces and I have bought some items from him to complete the office. But he's kind of a creep.

Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:16 AM
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Later in the interview she says she's been in that place since 1994, so it's possible that she either still has reasonable rent or was able to make the jump by doing commercial work.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:16 AM
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21: I read that as her having been in NYC since '94, not in that loft. (She graduated from college in '94, and mentions other apartments in NYC.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:20 AM
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Minimum acceptable number of books is 500.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:21 AM
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I get the sense that she actually spends a lot of time in the apartment, which is often not the case with the beautiful apartments you see profiled on the NYT or on blogs. All those plants!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:22 AM
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Ahahahahaha. She's 1.5 degrees of separation from me; I probably know people who knew her in college.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:23 AM
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Maybe I mentioned it at the time, but imagine my surprise one morning when I discovered that the ridiculous, obscene SoHo loft photographed in the Times was owned by a high school boyfriend.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:24 AM
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I remember once walking into a furniture store that was have a sale and making a general enquiry about bookshelves, and the assistant said, "How many books do you have, and I said, "I don't know, about a couple of thousand". And she looked at me in a funny way and scuttled off.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:26 AM
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26: So how was the sex trip to Macau?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:27 AM
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When I go back to Portland I'm going to be shopping for one of those accordian bookshelf thingies that allows you fit a lot of shelves in a tiny space.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:31 AM
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Totally different person. Not someone I've spoken to since 1987.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:31 AM
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I want to see the rest of the kitchen. Is there more counter space/storage around that corner??


Posted by: L. | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:33 AM
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Wait, what is so great about that place? It looks just like generic concrete floor "loft style" apartment, pretty well decorated but pretty generic, no? It looks like the places where people I know who live in concrete floor loft style apartments live, and there are about 10 billion of those all around the US. Am I missing something?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:40 AM
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The turntable looks like a bog-standard Technics direct drive, or something similar. I can't see that well from the pictures, but it's certainly nothing impressive. I'm guessing $50 second hand? Not impressed by the wee speakers way up high, either.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:40 AM
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Some of the furniture is nice, though.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:51 AM
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Bave and I got to see an apartment like that with the panoramic views, in DUMBO--someone I know through social work that happens to be friends with some of his friends, too. She must have had good timing getting it because all I could think through my raging envy was that an apartment that size with that view in a nicely rehabbed building in a neighborhood five minutes on the train from lower manhattan must go for...I couldn't even guess.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:11 PM
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I really like the combination of hanging plants and rough concrete. Sort of an urban decay aesthetic.
And I like her Chaplin throw pillow.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:13 PM
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32 -- I wouldn't trade, but the view isn't bad for city living. I don't find the interior space interesting in the least, but am fully aware that a great many people don't share my fashion sense.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:14 PM
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32

... Am I missing something?

I think maybe it's nicer than most people could afford. You hang out with rich people right?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:16 PM
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Wait, what is so great about that place?

The window and the view. Otherwise, sure, it would be a very nicely done but not incredible apartment.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:21 PM
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27: and the assistant said, "How many books do you have, and I said, "I don't know, about a couple of thousand". And she looked at me in a funny way and scuttled off.

I don't follow. You had a lot, or a few?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:22 PM
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I think she was expecting me to say maybe 50.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:24 PM
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It always astonishes me how few books people have. My parents were both highly literate and in nearly 50 years together I don't suppose they'd assembled more than two or three hundred.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:27 PM
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Wow, the 70s are back. Take out the computer gear and I was there as a little kid, behaving well while my parents visited hip (childless) friends.

...although, since we were nerds in the provinces, the best match was early 80s in a boathouse *with* computer gear and every DAW paperback, shelved by number.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:30 PM
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41: Ah. I feel as though I have (personally) a medium/medium-high number of books. Can't come up with a number, really, but I was mildly embarrassed to notice that I have just over 100 cookbooks. Which I guess is overkill.

Books are best counted in terms of linear feet rather than sheer numbers.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:31 PM
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Yeah. I'd guess answers around 50 would be far commoner than answers around 'thousands'. Much like with records/CDs. Even though 'thousands' might not sound high to the real hardcore.

We don't have that many books here -- 600, 700, maybe a bit more? I guesstimated once before and probably came up with a different answer* -- but even friends who I'd expect to have quite a few books remark on how many books there are. But to some Unfogged types that probably sounds like barely any at all.

* Four six foot high bookshelves, mostly double stacked, plus a bit more, but there are quite a few large-format books, so it's less books than you'd think.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:33 PM
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46

Or mass, when moving them, which: try not to.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:34 PM
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It always astonishes me how much space few books people have.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:35 PM
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It's the same with music. I probably have quite a bit of music compared to most people I know, but there are real outliers. My friend S used to have an entire wall of a very large room lined with square shelves of vinyl, and when her then boyfriend moved in he brought about the same.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:36 PM
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47 is also right. We have a pretty big flat, for London, and yet we'd struggle to fit in more than another one or two bookshelves without having to start negotiating with the landlord to get them to move furniture out.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:37 PM
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50

Next you'll all be arguing against having plants.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:37 PM
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50 -- In my brief career as a radio journalist, I was favored to witness, and record, a speech by Russell Means denouncing houseplants, and all who held them captive.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:53 PM
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51: Well, that's hogwash.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 12:59 PM
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I have about six or seven hundred books stored in my parents' garage and more in some rooms. The last time I went to get something out of the boxes in the garage, I saw that some of the books aren't holding up that well - probably packed too tightly, plus the environmental conditions aren't great though at least it isn't humid.

My plan if I ever have stability and space again is to be fairly strict about what books I finally take back and then figure out what to do with the remainder - donate, sell, etc. Lots of them are academic history I don't feel the need to own.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:05 PM
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Yeah, we got rid of a lot last time we moved. Friends who live in a small urban apartment have a rule that if anybody brings a book in, they have to nominate one to go out.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:08 PM
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Good rule (but really only workable if you know you have dross).

I made that rule regarding shoes some time ago.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:11 PM
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re: 54

My wife has a half-hearted prohibition on me buying any more books, until I give some away or throw them out. So far I've been sneaking the odd one in, but at some point soon I'm go to have to have a trip to Oxfam with a few dozen records, and a hundred or so books. The last couple of times I've moved I've dumped hundreds, and my Dad has a cupboard full of my books. Which is nice for him, as he's got rooms full of the things and a cupboard more is just more goodies for him. Come to think of it, I've also got a hifi and a guitar to get rid of, too.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:13 PM
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Anyone in or near London want a turntable and receiver? [Seriously]


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:14 PM
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52 -- You sound like one of those people who think it's ok to go around stealing continents from other people.

I don't know if you've ever heard RM speak, but he certainly went the full nine yards with this one. Every bit as strongly felt as the 'Europe Must Die So America May Live' speech I heard from him a year or two before.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:21 PM
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RM sample.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:25 PM
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58: I'm sure he did, but honestly, I can't get behind the notion that we're displacing plants by potting them and bringing them indoors. We're actually embiggening our co-planetary mental and spiritual space, or whatever, by sharing our domestic lives with plants in such a way that we care for them, we're kept aware that we meat beings are not the only things of importance, we exchange oxygen/carbon dioxide, blah blah. People who live in sterile, plant-free, dirt-free homes are the mind-killers!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:30 PM
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I've never hear him speak, but he convincingly killed Wes Studi with a pointy stick in Last of the Mohicans, so I can imagine.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:32 PM
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I'm moving now and I'm getting rid of about 200 lbs of them, leaving me abput 1800 lbs to store or ship. I don't cull very efficiently.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:37 PM
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RM on patriarchy.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:39 PM
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Speech from 1980. I'll stop now.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:41 PM
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49: I've always been curious why it's so much more common to find furnished apartments/flats in the UK and Europe than here in the US. The only ones I've ever seen on this side of the Atlantic were for short-term accomodation, not for really living in.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:45 PM
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I think they have longer-term furnished apartments for reforming hobos and the less active portion of the elderly.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 1:51 PM
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She must have had good timing getting it because all I could think through my raging envy was that an apartment that size with that view in a nicely rehabbed building in a neighborhood five minutes on the train from lower manhattan must go for...I couldn't even guess.

I'm guessing $2400 a month.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 2:02 PM
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Am I missing something?

I look at a lot of design sites with home tours, and found this to be unusually pretty. You must know spectacular people.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 2:07 PM
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I've always been curious why it's so much more common to find furnished apartments/flats in the UK and Europe than here in the US. The only ones I've ever seen on this side of the Atlantic were for short-term accomodation, not for really living in.

Exactly. At some point (1960s) the law in England was changed so that it was almost impossible to evict tenants from unfurnished accommodation. So landlords either sold their estates to owner occupiers or put furnishing in.

It's no longer quite so much the case, but the tradition has become established...


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 2:08 PM
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Britain: a nation of reformed hobos.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 2:11 PM
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67: You can see the Manhattan Bridge from her window and it's pretty far; I'm guessing she's just south of the Williamsburg Bridge. A 2-bed waterfront loft in that area is about $4200/month. Hers looks at least that big.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 2:20 PM
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I agree about the location, although I made my guess thinking it was a studio.... didn't see the white room in back. If it really is that big, yeah, $4200 is more like it, although maybe a bit less because it looks like its not exactly a new, luxury building.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 2:36 PM
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The title of the post made me think of John Laroquette in Stripes intoning "Oh god I wish I was a loofah."


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 3:25 PM
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Apparently, you can have a big enough fire for them to call two trucks and blast away with water from the hydrant* but still have electricity a couple hours later. Based on the ruckus, I thought my neighbor was going to lose the house.

*I saw the hose run into the house but I can't confirm they used it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 4:03 PM
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The firemen should put up a little sign (i.e. "water on a grease fire" or "wiring from 1933") so that I don't have to gossip to find what happened.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 4:05 PM
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74: In WeHo any response involves at least two trucks and often three. I think it has to do with having enough people around to carry victims out rather than the estimated severity of the fire or medical issue.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 4:06 PM
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No ambulance came.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 4:08 PM
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I guess I was thinking the water would have been enough to keep them from turning on the power.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 4:31 PM
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A 2-bed waterfront loft in that area is about $4200/month.

I know that my North Dakota real estate joke is old, old, old, but I can't help thinking of it whenever I see rents like this.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:03 PM
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I know, and it's eating at me, especially as I'm applying to some positions back in NYC after a year of this beautiful 2-story apartment with a library/guest room, a huge living room, a kitchen the size of my old Brooklyn studio apartment, and a giant claw-foot iron tub, all for $940/mo.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:08 PM
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We live nowhere near central London, albeit in a nice enough area, and average rents here are getting up around $3000 USD (plus local tax and utilities). It's depressing.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:12 PM
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I live even further from central London, so that might explain why when I punched $3,000 as a minimum rent into Craigslist for my neighborhood, I didn't get any hits. Further exploring found that $2,850 gets you a 4 bedroom 2 1/2 bath house within 3/4 of a mile of campus.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:46 PM
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I know that this is maybe a little irrational, but I do have to come in here and wave the black flag of anarchy occasionally, so I'll say that the photo set really irritated me. I mean, here's this person who does a really shallow, ephemeral form of commercial art, and just because she was around early enough, the system has accreted around her, and now she'll be there forever. I'm aware that this is the kind of thing that happens all over, but especially in NYC, but it still rankles. Also, I think, given the economic situation, whatever cohort got in just after her was probably the last that will ever happen to, though I may be mistaken.

||
I was dozing just now and had a fairly long dream about a friend from RL who runs some websites not only knowing who the ToS was, but also visiting him and being concerned for his health. It was weird.

Do you think the ToS might actually be Silvio Berlusconi? There'd be a very nice symmetry there, I think.
||>


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:46 PM
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the photo set really irritated me

You're not alone. But then again, I've never subscribed to Dwell.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:51 PM
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I know that this is maybe a little irrational, but I do have to come in here and wave the black flag of anarchy occasionally, so I'll say that the photo set really irritated me. I mean, here's this person who does a really shallow, ephemeral form of commercial art

Oh, give me a break. What's so horrible about ephemera? What's so especially egregiously shallow about her work? God forbid that craftspeople in the decorative arts should ever make a nice living.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:53 PM
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32: there are about 10 billion of those all around the US

Obviously, this was hyperbole, but I really don't think there are that many at all. I don't know about LA, but around here, I'd guess there are no more than about 400-600 lofts in this model in the entire metro area. There's probably 4 times as many newly-built models from the condo boom, but you're still then talking about accommodations for no more than 1 in 500 of the metro population.

I've had cause to be looking at house rental options recently, and it seems like $3000/month would get you something pretty nice just about anywhere in the metro area. The creepy thing was seeing how many rentals there are in the deep suburbs. I mean, if things are deserted enough out there that it makes sense to have grow houses, that shouldn't be surprising, but still.

I was also struck by the lack of books in this apartment. What does she spend her money on? Besides rent. I'm not sure exactly how many books we have, but even after several purges we're way over the capacity of our bookshelves. Probably in the neighborhood of 4,000, but it might be a bit more.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:56 PM
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Heh. The photo set took too long to load, so I abandoned.

Are people aware of this NYT piece on how approachable and hard-working are the 1%?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:56 PM
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just because she was around early enough, the system has accreted around her, and now she'll be there forever

Why is that bad? Does this woman somehow not deserve to live in a reasonably spacious apartment because she's not a real enough artist? Would it be better if she was priced out by some bankers? What the hell.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:58 PM
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That the woman lives in a nice place doesn't bother me. It doesn't even bother me that other people like to look at homes they can't afford. It bothers me because I don't personally admire real estate, or find it particularly healthy to envy people who have the financial and professional stability to live in the same very nice place for a long time. I have exactly one nice piece of furniture, and I've been up late thinking about what a pain in the ass it's going to be to move it year after year after year while I chase these fucking one-year positions all over the globe.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:58 PM
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I was also struck by the lack of books in this apartment. What does she spend her money on?

Art supplies, probably. And there ARE books in the apartment. Why are you being such a snob?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 5:59 PM
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85: The ephemera itself isn't so bad, I suppose, but all that creative-class stuff bugs me more and more when I think about it recently. The artists I know, and there are many of them, all get by on between 10K and 35K a year. There may be a couple of outliers, in terms of people who founded their own company and are good at writing grants, but the bulk of the people I know who put their hearts and souls into creating stuff -- stuff that actually has good politics and provokes people to see things in new ways -- subsist annually on what this woman pays for a few months of rent. And that's mostly from their bullshit day jobs, because their art rarely nets them more than a grand a year, gross.

I'm not saying window-dressers for petit-bourgeois stores should live in filth and squalor in 4th floor cold-water walk-ups, but it bugs me to see them living like grandees when less mercenary artists do live in hovels. Without health insurance.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:03 PM
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What an odd spelling of passementerie, although the word is old enough that it ought to have variants.

I do not want my variously underpaid internet friends to crab-in-a-bucket at each other. I feel that the problem is that Barneys' clients have all the money, and if they didn't there would be a less golden aura for a window-dresser who worked for them, or more money to pay an artist who worked elsewhere. Also, was it clear that she's the petit mains as well as the designer? I thought rather the latter.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:05 PM
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Perhaps my perceptions are skewed, because my very first experience of NY apartments was a tiny one-bedroom in Chelsea that had books floor to ceiling on almost every wall. This was shared by two people, one of whom was a fairly well-regarded Off-Broadway theater director, and of course it was rent-controlled back to the 80s. I guess I'd always thought that the one thing that redeemed rich people in NY was that they probably read a lot more than rich people elsewhere, but perhaps not.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:07 PM
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This is the solution.


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:07 PM
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93: You have no fucking idea how much this woman reads. Gross.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:08 PM
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I'm not saying window-dressers for petit-bourgeois stores should live in filth and squalor in 4th floor cold-water walk-ups.

Weenie.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:08 PM
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91: their bullshit day jobs

Sorry, that should have been "bullshit service industry day jobs".

But, you know, fuck the artists, they knew what they were getting into, what with RENT and all. More concerning is like, the registered nurses I know who have ginormous student loans and can't find anything better than part-time low-level gigs which barely cover their loan payments and rent.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:10 PM
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86

I was also struck by the lack of books in this apartment. ...

What lack of books? There are hundreds of books in the apartment.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:13 PM
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I used to hate dusting ephemera until I realized that the wand attachment on the vacuum works so much better than a dust rag.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:13 PM
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Um, well, look, many of the people who make a hefty living do so by chasing real wealth. There was a bizarre paean recently -- oh, it was by Newt Gingrich on one of the Sunday shows -- regarding the awesomeness of some small business man entrepreneur who'd turned the Gulfstream (I think) company around: Gulfstream makes corporate jets. So yeah, in order to make any serious amount of money, you chase and serve wealth, which is what I take it the woman profiled in the OP does.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:14 PM
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The article says everyone in the building is an artist. Probably not the right sort though.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:15 PM
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And, I mean, what's with all the vitriol? I'm not saying that this particular person is so nefariously evil. Maybe she gave 100 bucks to OWS and helps out young kids on their way up. I'm not the one making fun of her smock, after all. And I'm not particularly concerned with her newyorkiness, it's just that being there means the contrasts are brought into sharper relief. It's a metonymy for the whole deal.

Here's the thing: I feel like I've given the whole outraged-liberal thing the old college try, and it's just not working for me. I feel more and more in sympathy with the hipster nihilist kids, and more and more disgusted with the earnest community organizers. I'm sick of losing. Game's rigged anyhow.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:22 PM
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71

You can see the Manhattan Bridge from her window and it's pretty far; I'm guessing she's just south of the Williamsburg Bridge. A 2-bed waterfront loft in that area is about $4200/month. Hers looks at least that big.

$4200 may be a bit high. This rental in the general area seems quite a bit nicer and they are asking $4500. Although I guess the view isn't as good as it doesn't directly face the river. Not sure how much that matters.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:24 PM
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98: I'm put in mind of an anecdote from a friend who was helping a mutual acquaintance move. This acquaintance used to be a middle-man in the trade in proscribed botanicals, and it so happened that he had a large cookie tin full of cannabis in one of his boxes, and my friend chanced to notice it. "Wow," he said, "that's a lot of pot!" The acquaintance replied "You think that's a lot of pot?"


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:25 PM
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what's with all the vitriol

For me it's because I guess I'd always thought that the one thing that redeemed rich people in NY was that they probably read a lot more than rich people elsewhere, but perhaps not. in the context of this women's apartment pictures maybe be the stupidest fucking thing a smart person has ever said on the internet (apart from Crooked Timber threads of course).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:26 PM
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102: What's with all your vitriol?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:29 PM
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JP exaggerates. For some reason.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:30 PM
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I keep my vitriol in a cookie tin.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:31 PM
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Although I guess the view isn't as good as it doesn't directly face the river. Not sure how much that matters.

Ha ha ha ha ha. (Seriously, landlords will tack on hundreds for a view of the river.)


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:33 PM
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The apartment Shearer posted does seem to have a river view.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:35 PM
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110: Yeah, the Wburg Bridge is in all the pix.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:37 PM
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No exposed brick though, and it looks like a very new development. It might have fewer roaches, but I don't think it would command the same price.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:39 PM
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I have a view of the river. Cost is the same as a place in my building without a view of the river. The landlord, being a giant, faceless corporation doesn't recognize the difference.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:39 PM
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110: Yeah, the Wburg Manhattan Bridge is in all the pix.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:40 PM
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Corporations don't even see water. Which explains the pollution thing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 6:41 PM
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114

110: Yeah, the Wburg Manhattan Bridge is in all the pix

I believe that is the Williamsburg Bridge. The view is definitely not as good as you are actually facing another building to the north (with the river to the west) so you have more like a 60 degree (as opposed to 180) view of the river. On the other hand the apartment is bigger with 2 bedrooms and 2 baths, it has more windows and the roof top terrace has to count for something.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 7:04 PM
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I guess I'd always thought that the one thing that redeemed rich people in NY

Rich people in NYC are beyond redemption.

I wouldn't live in that apt if you paid me $4000 a month.

They should read more. I should read more. I think I will read some more.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 7:13 PM
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But, you know, fuck the artists, they knew what they were getting into, what with RENT and all.

I bet she doesn't even have an AIDS.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 7:22 PM
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I have a rent-control type-dealie as you all recall, but the result is that what should be a ludicrously expensive house is merely an eye-wateringly expensive house. I was complaining to my brother than we couldn't afford to live in NYC and he said, how the hell much do you pay in rent again? oh yeah. well, that would be stipulating job/s, but. we could afford to live near LB. or in an apartment in the area in the article that didn't have that view.

what kills me are the insane coops where the maintenance is more than I paid in rent as a college student. additionally stipulating that I'm old etc. I mean, yeah, those flowers in the lobby are nice, and I guess there's a doorman's union (as why should there not be?), but daaag that's a lot of maintenance. OK, I'ma go get my fashion on, I'll see y'all later. oh, wait, no, I'll be commenting on the work ipad because I'm bored waiting around while people change their minds about types of false eyelashes. ttyl, unfoggedteers.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 7:24 PM
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84: You're not alone. But then again, I've never subscribed to Dwell.

M3!

91: The ephemera itself isn't so bad, I suppose, but all that creative-class stuff bugs me more and more when I think about it recently.

Well, to pull it back to the issue of taste, what AWB said to begin with. But I had to think about it to put my finger on it (because the exposed concrete really bugged me) and then I got it: Man, that's some ostentatious (pseudo-)proletarian-ism. For the full parody, it needs a picture of Lenin. A gilt-edged, framed, picture of Lenin. No! Nononono. A vaguely wood-framed picture of MLK and one for Ghandi. Yeah. No. Nevermind, back to the picture of Lenin, but keep the picture of MLK.

And, ya know. Her window dressing treatments are pretty much the same thing: nice concept, way too overdone.

max
['This is the kind of thing that manages to produce enough amusement to make SWPL funny for 15 seconds every other month.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 7:25 PM
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Man, that's some ostentatious (pseudo-)proletarian-ism.

????????????????????


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 7:28 PM
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119

what kills me are the insane coops where the maintenance is more than I paid in rent as a college student. additionally stipulating that I'm old etc. I mean, yeah, those flowers in the lobby are nice, and I guess there's a doorman's union (as why should there not be?), but daaag that's a lot of maintenance. ...

Coops generally have a mortgage on the building and part of your monthly fee is going to pay this mortgage. So the sales price will be lower and the monthly fee will be higher than for a comparable condo.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 7:38 PM
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119: When I last lived in New York (up near LB's place) we paid $225/mo for a two-bedroom with a nice view of a church's roof. Now that I'm retired, we looked at the possibility of moving back. The sticker shock was extreme. We've decided that it was a romantic notion to try to recapture our youth.


Posted by: jim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 7:46 PM
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Coöps have elevators. Condos have stairs only.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 7:47 PM
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So speaking of apartments, what are people using to find places? I've looked on padmapped which pulls craigslist, zillow, and metro-rentals (columbus specific) and I'm not finding anything that isn't a $300 carpeted plywood shack out in the suburbs, or $1500 Luxury! Amenity! Tanning beds!


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 8:00 PM
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123: At that time, NYC was in North Dakota.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 8:02 PM
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124: We actually looked fairly seriously at a fifth floor walkup in a coop on W. 106th St. It wasn't more than 12 ft wide anywhere, but it had windows on three sides and the side windows were at the top of their light wells. We decided against it because we couldn't imagine spending our declining years climbing five flights.

122: It varies. There are coops without underlying mortgages. The asking price for apartments in them is correspondingly higher. TANSTAAFL. The distinction in New York is that technically a coop sale is a stock transfer and taxed (or not taxed: tax stock transfers in New York?!) as such, while a condo sale is a real estate transfer and attracts a heavy real estate transfer tax.


Posted by: jim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 8:19 PM
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126: There were good sides to the crime and grime of New York in the '70s.


Posted by: jim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 8:22 PM
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Huntsman has dropped out of the race, endorsing Romney.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 8:49 PM
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I don't see that helping Romney at all, but maybe that's the point.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 8:52 PM
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I didn't have anything interesting to say.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 8:56 PM
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I was so bored I finally looked at the link in the OP. My thought was that she had a really big aloe plant.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 8:59 PM
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Okay, what's particularly bizarre about this, is that I really didn't say anything bad about the person in the article except that she didn't have enough books* and that her art was "ephemeral"**. It's not like I called her a Nazi or something. I may not feel like she's my long-lost comrade, but that's pretty far away from blaming her for any of this mess. I mean, if you really want to talk about class, then the starting point has to be understanding how capital divides and rules. Here's this woman (and many others like her) who could be doing something really positive in society. Clearly she's talented, hard-working and intelligent. But what is she actually doing? Making arrangements of whimsical baubles to induce rich people to buy other, very expensive, whimsical baubles. And, you know, maybe she's the best at what she does. Great. I'm saying though, that the economic processes which her lifestyle represent are terrible. The people who are most gifted get bought away from their origins and shoved into this world where it makes sense for one person to live in a huge, beautifully appointed apartment, and 7 others to share a hot-sheets crash pad in between shifts in restaurant kitchens. But really, what's the point? Stalin killed 20 million and even that unimaginable atrocity didn't change the direction of the system for long. There's really no point to any sort of progressive action. Everything I've done in that direction has been a complete waste of time. The other side is smarter, more ruthless, more focused, richer and better armed. I should just retreat into a quiet life of paranoia that I'm going to lose my job and be destitute. Because it's way too late and there's nothing I can do that will help.

*Maybe she has 30,000 books in a secure, climate-controlled storage facility on Long Island. I don't know. I don't think that has anything to do with my overall point.

**Some of my best friends are ephemeral artists! But she's not exactly designing the Moscow subway stations here.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:14 PM
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I keep my vitriol in a cookie tin.

You should keep vitriol in a glass container probably. Stainless is okay but will get discolored. We are talking about sulfuric acid yes?


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:18 PM
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You lost me somewhere between "huge, beautifully appointed apartment" and "Stalin killed 20 million."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:18 PM
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135: Apartments are such an important trope in Soviet literature though. I thought it was a reasonably obvious progression.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:20 PM
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Unless you count Gulag Archipelago, I've never read Soviet literature and I sort of skimmed that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:25 PM
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123 Gak. Though I did pay under 300 for a roomshare in prime Dupont circle back in the mid nineties. Crappy room, nice townhouse and if I'd stayed longer I could have moved to a really nice room for about fifty bucks more. In a way the scariest rents I've seen are in Poland. When I first lived there in the early nineties I was paying $200/mo for a crappy studio apartment in a so-so area. That was the average monthly salary back then.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:28 PM
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You know who had a really nice apartment? Stalin.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:29 PM
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Coincidentally the NYT has an article on co-op fees. They also include your share of the real estate taxes.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:31 PM
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133

... she didn't have enough books* ...

How many books would be enough?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:33 PM
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Anyway, if I've learned anything from archeology and anthropology*, it's that doing pointless shit for decorative reasons isn't a symptom of a wealthy society gone astray or late stage capitalism. The desire to produce visual art is a congenital condition that afflicts some very high percentage of the human race. Short of actual starvation, there is no way to stop it. Trying to impart some taste is as the most anyone can do.

*I'll ask you to seriously entertain the possibility that I haven't.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:33 PM
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139 And he didn't just collect books, he collected the authors.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:37 PM
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133

... her art was "ephemeral" ...

Well you also said it was shallow and politically incorrect. And suggested she has no talent but just happened to be in the right place at the right time.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:39 PM
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But then again, I've never subscribed to Dwell.

Aw, this makes me sad. When it started, Dwell was a really awesome magazine, advocating for good affordable design and environmentally-friendly development. (Their constructed-house contest was particularly cool.) I'm bummed out by what it's turned into.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:39 PM
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133

... shoved into this world where it makes sense for one person to live in a huge, beautifully appointed apartment, ...

I don't think the apartment is huge, and if it's beautifully appointed that's because she decorated it herself. It does have a nice view.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:47 PM
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Her heat bill must the $800/month in a cold winter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:53 PM
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147: She probably just burns books since she clearly HATES LITERATURE.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 9:59 PM
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12 foot ceilings and vast expanses of single-paned windows do not make for cheap heat.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:02 PM
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She probably just burns books

Look Smearcase, Natilo has already clarified that she's not a Nazi, okay?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:10 PM
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Speaking of Soviet apartments.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:11 PM
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149

12 foot ceilings and vast expanses of single-paned windows do not make for cheap heat.

It might not be so bad if that is the only exterior wall.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 10:42 PM
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The turntable looks like a bog-standard Technics direct drive, or something similar. I can't see that well from the pictures, but it's certainly nothing impressive."

What caught my eye was the Peachtree device she has next to the turntable. I'm pretty sure that's got a tube pre-amp stage plus a rather nice built-in DAC.

If it's what I think it is, it's a $1,000 piece of audio gear, easy.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 01-15-12 11:37 PM
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127: I used to live in one of those, except on 109th, between columbus and amsterdam. well, two different ones; the first was really cockroach-y and slumlord-y and when you opened the window into the air shaft the super was always making crack, which smells awful. but the second one was fine, although I think in the back bit where the bedroom was my boyfriend could touch both walls lying down cross-wise. I was probably in the best shape of my life doing martial arts and climbing up and down those 5 goddamn flights all the time. if you eat healthy foods and exercise, moderate drug use doesn't actually make you unhealthy, as far as I could see. well, prone to get pneumonia, but I always was. this was the early 90's though, so there was tons of gunfire and random violence. I hid in the tub sometimes, reading; there was fucking small arms fire out there.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:50 AM
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re: 153

Ah, I missed that photo. I was guessing re: the turntable from the photo further up showing the t-table from the side/above. According to Amazon that amp/iPod dock is about $700. Which is nothing to sneeze at. Although if you were a big vinyl person the TT seems a bit mismatched to the more expensive amp, I suppose. Although for years mine was similar -- cheap Technics DD deck plus (relatively speaking) more expensive amp/speakers.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 1:13 AM
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Christ, I better not show any of you photos of my house because I definitely don't have enough books. I've been on a concerted mission in the last few years to get rid of them in fact. And I rarely buy new ones because they're expensive. I do use the library all the time though, perhaps I can just present my reading list for your approval.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 3:03 AM
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I looked back at the link after seeing the comments about books, and I dunno. She seems to have a fair number of books, and it's not clear that these pictures show all of the bookshelves in the place. I mean, she's an artist, not an academic. Lots of people don't own many books.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 3:08 AM
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I, for example, currently have exactly 40 books in my current place (and here they are). I have a bunch more in boxes in my mom's garage, of course.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 3:15 AM
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get garlic! shun teo!


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:55 AM
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141: I've already established that 500 is the bare minimum.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:19 AM
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But sci-fi paperbacks only count as a half book each, right?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:31 AM
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re: 161

Unless they are in languages other than English, in which case they count twice. The reverse applies to Westerns.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:40 AM
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154: I met the Ex in a Columbia building a block from there.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:41 AM
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Just to be on the safe side, let's not show Natilo any back issues of Tyler Brûlé-era Wallpaper*.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:48 AM
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Unless they are in languages other than English....

Among the books I'm not getting rid of are about 20 translated American pulp fiction EXCUSE ME GENRE FICTION books. Most of them are in languages I don't read. I've found that if you know French and Spanish you can fake it in Catalan and Italian (but not Romanian I don't think), and if you know German and English you can fake it in Dutch and Scandinavian languages. Finnish doesn't even have many cognate words and is hopeless. Czech and Polish have the occasional cognate but are essentially impossible.

The sterotyping makes it pretty easy. You know that if a guy's awake at dawn or 4 am he goes into a diner and has coffee and ham and eggs or some other standard breakfast.

I read Mickey Spillane first in Norwegian (Lev Hardt = The Body Lovers) and he is one sick puppy. Blonde sex slaves murdered by dark, sinister U.N. representatives. Naked gogo girls dancing in a cage with a cobra.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:50 AM
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How can you read about ham and eggs when brave comrades on front are eating own boots, class traitor?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:01 AM
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162: If all books in a language other than English count twice, then my apartment will probably make it up to Emerson's minimum after all.

I have a small pile of French books left by a friend when she stayed here in the middle of a full-on manic episode, the night before she was institutionalized. I have been meaning to get rid of them, but now that I know they're worth two books, well! And doesn't that Nerval look intellectual on my shelf! I feel smarter just having it around.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:41 AM
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How many books is my TV worth?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:44 AM
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If this person weren't in New York, would the haters still hate? Is it merely the expensive real estate?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:45 AM
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I'm a poet and blah blah blah.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:46 AM
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What caught my eye was the Peachtree device she has next to the turntable. I'm pretty sure that's got a tube pre-amp stage plus a rather nice built-in DAC.

If it's what I think it is, it's a $1,000 piece of audio gear, easy.


A very nice company in Virginia has that Decco on sale for $599! Bargain.



Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:49 AM
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I have been working hard at giving away books. I might be a bit obnoxious about it. "Here! Take this book. You will LOVE it!"


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:50 AM
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Everybody should read Nerval, including his fiction. It's all right there, Lacan, Foucault, Baudelaire, everything. Nerval lived on both sides of madness at the same time. He nailed the "elusive object of desire" thingie. Best 300 pages you ever read.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:52 AM
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Je suis le ténébreux, l'inconsolé, le prince d'Aquitaine à la tour abolie. Mon seul etoile est mort, et mon luth constellé
that is as much as I remember.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:54 AM
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I've chosen to own no books, and to forget everything I once knew about America. To understand America, I now only read e-text versions of Karl May, as translated by Google Translate. By the rules announced in this thread, I believe that counts as exactly 10,127 books.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:01 AM
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How many books is my TV worth?

Depends how big it is - "the bigger the telly, the smarter the man"


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:02 AM
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169: Part of the hate is probably New York envy: the view of the river and Manhattan is the big thing.

Personally, I don't envy. Because when she goes down into the street, she's still in Brooklyn.


Posted by: jim | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:08 AM
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What's weird to me is that this building, unlike many others, is still almost entirely occupied by artists (according to the article). What this is likely to mean is that they all moved in a while ago, *and* the owner of the building isn't throwing/hasn't thrown them all out to turn it condo. This is a good thing. It's bizarre to me that people want to attack her because she isn't displaying enough books, wearing a hairshirt, or covering up pre-existing architectural details of the space (maybe some shag carpeting over that "ostentatious" cement?).
(And incidentally, this apartment has one great window and a great view, but it doesn't seem particularly large or in any way grand.)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:20 AM
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I love NYC, but it really is such a crazy place. A friend just moved to San Fran and put her one bedroom apartment up for sale for almost $700,000.00. Crazy.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:32 AM
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179: The million-dollar studio apartmentin Manhattan is not unheard of.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:36 AM
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It probably has a press agent.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:38 AM
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182

Since Natilo is flagging, I will be that guy.

The forced bohemian aesthetic pisses me off. The exposed concrete, the retro sound equipment, the paint on the glass of the huge, energy-inefficient riverview window. You are not scraping by in a blown-out, post apocalyptic, or even elegantly decaying, New York. You live in the virbrant, wealthy cultural and financial capital of a mighty and terrible empire where you produce Veblen good sculptures used to advertise other insanely expensive Veblen goods to an exclusive audience. You are playing at chic poverty and independence when you're really up to your neck in complicity with the excesses of it all.

Now I acknowledge that this judgment on my part has all the moral force of hating Ed Hardy shirts, but Christ have I got to move out of this city.


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:43 AM
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Could I have that kind of apartment in Pittsburgh without incurring your wrath?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:49 AM
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forced bohemian aesthetic

While I understand this more than Max's 'exposed concrete is proletarian,' I'm not willing to cede everything other than the shiny and new ("luxury apartments") to only people who come in under some arbitrary income level. Having old things around, having different textures, even having obviously well used things (the faded rug), all of those can make a more comfortable living space. And admiring the aesthetic of that window /= pretending you're poor.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:51 AM
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Maybe, Moby. Maybe not. The Spanish Inquisition does not tip its hand,


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:51 AM
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Also, good god, I'd hate to see what you'd say about the old ("retro") turntable I got off of craigslist.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:55 AM
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I love it when a plan comes together who-is-more-enthusiastic-about-draconian-sumptuary-laws fight breaks out.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:01 AM
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"Playing at poverty" is an insane bit of mind reading.
Also, I have that turntable -- I've had it since, oh, the late 80s. I keep a turntable because I have *records* (I'm old!) and I would like to listen to them.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:02 AM
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Whatever, man. Maybe you just want to play some records. Just don't, like, develop custom aromatherapy for Gulfstreams or something.


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:07 AM
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This thread is baffling. That turntable costs like twenty dollars, and works pretty well.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:10 AM
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189: Probably too late.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:10 AM
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Like oudemia, I have that turntable, but only because I have had it forever. I would love that Peachtree Decco.

I agree with everything Blume said in 184.

I am reminded of why I started to dislike going to Dead shows. Too many people complaining about those other people who werent truly Dead-heads like they were.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:13 AM
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I should have thrown away my turntable so people on the internet wouldn't make up stories about my *intentions,* man.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:13 AM
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Anything to get rid of that awful, new Gulfstream smell.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:14 AM
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Anything to get rid of that awful, new Gulfstream smell.

Pretending to be poor, the major leagues.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:15 AM
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I think we should have photographers take professional pictures of all of our apartments and tear each other to shreds in turn, except for whoever lives like a hoarder in a trailer, who will be applauded for their honesty.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:16 AM
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Seriously, if I wanted my Gulfstream to smell like a new Kia, I'd have bought a Bombardier.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:16 AM
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I have included an easy link in case anyone wishes to purchase it for me. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VLnqdnlQHRU/p_731DEC2BG/Peachtree-Decco2.html


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:17 AM
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From 196 we can conclude that Sifu is a hoarder who lives in a trailer.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:17 AM
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You are playing at chic poverty and independence when you're really up to your neck in complicity with the excesses of it all.

This seems like a misunderstanding of the NYC real estate market. Some very well-off people in NY live in very scruffy-looking spaces because when you add in location, view, whatever, that's what they can afford. Buck and I are doing very nicely, thank you. And our apartment is really really nice by NY standards. But out-of-town friends are vaguely bemused and pitying when they come visit, because it's kind of small for four people by standards applicable for the rest of the country.

No one would call my lifestyle 'playing at chic poverty', because 'chic' is so clearly not an applicable adjective. But I'm buying access to the A train and what is technically a river view (not an attractive river view, mind you, but there's water) by trading off a lower standard of living, space-wise, than I'd be able to afford elsewhere. That's not playing at poverty, that's making a tradeoff within my budget. The woman in the pictured apartment looks to be doing the same.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:17 AM
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199: no. In fact, I have not one but two turntables.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:19 AM
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You are playing at chic poverty and independence when you're really up to your neck in complicity with the excesses of it all.

I find it totally beautiful. Am I up to my neck in complicity with the excesses of it all?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:19 AM
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As per others, the sound equipment isn't retro. It's a bog-standard 80s turntable like a lot of people have because they are cheap and functional.

I was slagging it of mildly because it's not in keeping with the mid-century modern furniture vibe, isn't really very envy-worthy (contra 1) and because the speakers are in somewhat stupid place. But there's nothing ostentatious or poncy about the stereo. It's a functional turntable and a modern amp you can plug an iPod into. If the person was trying to be ostentatious they'd either have something much more expensive or something like a 50s radiogram. The hi-fi semiotics are basically, 'I have records and want something to listen to them on.'


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:20 AM
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This discussion is making me think I should give Ed Hardy another chance.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:21 AM
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The hi-fi semiotics are basically, 'I have records and want something to listen to them on.'

Yep.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:22 AM
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re: 201

Indeed. And one of mine is a poncy British brand that has obsessive followers and equally obsessive detractors.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:22 AM
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From 196 we can conclude that Sifu is a hoarder who lives in a trailer with five bikes.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:24 AM
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Remind me never to post a picture of the Flip-Pater's audio tower. It would severely damage the picture I paint of him as saintly, slightly dotty ascetic.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:24 AM
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202:

Yes; heebie is first against the tastefully decorated wall.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:25 AM
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I like the Charlie Chaplin pillow. Also that there is a hagiographical photo essay (is such a thing possible?) about a woman who is somewhat overweight and is wearing a strange un-stylish baggy garment. Stands out among the rest of their interview subjects.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:25 AM
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I only have one bike actually in the apartment, usually. Somebody has at least three.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:25 AM
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where you produce Veblen good sculptures used to advertise other insanely expensive Veblen goods to an exclusive audience.

This is also bothering me as a description of what she does for a living. It's not great art, it's not socially important, it's basically advertising. But it's not for an exclusive audience -- interesting window displays, like the ones she makes, are for an audience of passers-by on the streets, not just people who can afford the goods in the stores. The stores do it because generating goodwill is a benefit to them, it's all cynical, all of that's true, but it's something that gives pleasure to a broad cross-section of the city's population.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:27 AM
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I have a garage with one bike and one tricycle.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:27 AM
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Somewhat along this topic, I really enjoyed seeing the Deigo Rivera exhibit. (and the de Koonig)

Does that buy me any credit with the masses?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:29 AM
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You know who used to try to forge intercultural links via bicycle tourism? That's right.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:29 AM
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212: Yes! And the Barneys windows are very often not even displaying products. They're pretty much full-on spectacle, or, dare I say it, whimsical public art.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:30 AM
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or de Kooning. Whatever.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:30 AM
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I have other bikes. They just aren't in the double-wide apartment.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:31 AM
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This discussion is making me think I should give Ed Hardy another chance.

That is increasingly my conclusion as well.


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:31 AM
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No one tell Ned about the Nazis' homemade pr0n.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:32 AM
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Does that buy me any credit with the masses?

Would have been better to mention only Rivera. De Kooning is not Communist enough!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:33 AM
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Who is Ed Hardy?


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:33 AM
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210: Rebecca Lamarche-Vadel looks like a famous blogress.

Those really are a bunch of beautiful people. Apparently Burke and her apparentment are affirmative action subjects.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:34 AM
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http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2009/04/13/124-hating-people-who-wear-ed-hardy/


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:34 AM
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221:

yea, I realized that. But, holy crap, that de Kooning was prolific!

Also loved the Indian paintings at the Met. Almost an overwhelming exhibit.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:34 AM
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Ed Hardy


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:36 AM
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I was considering amnestying a few of y'all, but your attitudes are not conducive to that.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:36 AM
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223 gets it right. Why aren't we making fun of Boris Radczun? All the criticisms in this thread apply doubly to him. Plus, saving old wine bottles?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:38 AM
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http://www.freundevonfreunden.com/interviews/lawrence-watson/

Look at the ostentatious display of wealth and slimness.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:38 AM
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Boris owns SIX TOBACCO PIPES!

And look at HIS audio equipment!

Really we should just devote a month of Unfogged to one thread a day of criticizing a Freunde von Freunden profile.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:40 AM
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Plus, saving old wine bottles?
Do these criticisms apply to someone with large pile of Yellowtail bottles that they've been too lazy to recycle?
I'm, uh, asking for a friend.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:42 AM
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I am trying to have a spiritual awakening here re: other people's consumption choices. The link in 228 is not helping.


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:48 AM
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Rather a lot to ridicule here.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:48 AM
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I think we should have photographers take professional pictures of all of our apartments

Gaping holes in the ceiling and water-damaged walls mean I'm trying way too hard for the proletarian aesthetic at the moment, I think.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:48 AM
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182

The forced bohemian aesthetic pisses me off ...

Why get angry at the way other people decorate their apartments?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:50 AM
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233: Man, I hope my hair turns out like that when it finishes going gray.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:50 AM
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We're so down with la gente that we have plastic kid crap all over the house.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:51 AM
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Why get angry at the way other people decorate their apartments?

Why should we get angry at the way people abuse their children or torture their pets or oppress their minorities? Relativism has gone too far.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:53 AM
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228: Nicely modelling the always informative douche flag.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:53 AM
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Also, what makes this bohemian style so forced? Who is authentically bohemian?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:53 AM
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228: The Apple logo sticker on the 5 year old IBM ThinkPad kinda blows my mind.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:54 AM
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I like Jenna Brinning's arm tattoo. She has a good quantity of books. And some kind of bizarre bicycle. All in all I think she might escape ridicule.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:55 AM
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re: 240

My wife? From yer actual no-kidding Bohemia.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:55 AM
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Boris, as far as I can tell, has a set of Yamaha speakers that aren't plugged into anything.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:56 AM
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Really we should just devote a month of Unfogged to one thread a day of criticizing a Freunde von Freunden profile.

You can try, but unless you know a lot about the cities the people are in, you're going to miss quite a bit of nuance.

Like this guy. Look at the third photo. Can you tell me about the wallpaper? What about the magazine on top of the stack (030)? The provenance of those particular baseboards? Because all of those elements are saying quite specific things about the apartment and the person who lives there.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:57 AM
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241: I think the ironic Apple sticker on a Windows laptop is common enough to be a thing.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:57 AM
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245: Don't let the Teutonicist pull rank on you, people!

Jenna Brinning and her place look generic Portland, even pre-hipster Portland.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:00 AM
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246: Ok, I guess I wasn't catching the irony. I read it as more of an "I'm to insecure in my creative class persona to allow people to think I'm particularly comfortable using Windows."


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:01 AM
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242: I like the tattoo, but the collar on her shirt is certainly not beyond ridicule.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:03 AM
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Also, color coordinated sugar packets: not cool.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:04 AM
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She's from Providence.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:05 AM
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I like the Hebrew sugar packet.

What are your thoughts on the essential oils?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:05 AM
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Can someone with an earnest appreciation for the tattoo explain what is appealing about it? It ... does not appeal to my interests.


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:05 AM
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243: she's a vampire?!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:06 AM
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Don't let the Teutonicist pull rank on you, people!

What else am I going to use all this Berlin knowledge for, if not to tell people on the internet that their assumptions about other people on the internet are wrong?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:07 AM
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245:OMG, I love that guy. The crooked photographs are wonderful, and even better if they are of strangers.

I mean, I don't love him, his apartment is just so much more interesting to me than the one in the OP. Interesting as pathology, of course.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:10 AM
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All links to Ed Hardy should go here.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:12 AM
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You could start a historically accurate neo-Nazi group. People have Fraktur 100% wrong, for example.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:12 AM
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I have spent hours and hours in EU conferences on OCR'ing fraktur. I can probably help your neo-nazis digitise their old Der Sturmers.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:14 AM
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246: Yeah. I found the Apple sticker, couldn't figure out where it was supposed to go on any of the Apple gear, and so stuck it on the big desktop PC. Not ironic, just a brain fart.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:22 AM
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People are pretty into getting Fraktur right. There are several projects to digitize classic Fraktur typefaces.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:26 AM
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re: 261

The big EU one is Impact.

http://anonym.to/?http://www.impact-project.eu/

Or at least that's the big pan-EU OCR project that's been doing a lot of work on fraktur that I'm aware of. Lots of money spent.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:29 AM
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But what I meant was:

Hitler was anti-Fraktur! The Allies used Fraktur! Fraktur is anti-Nazi. Good liberals should use only Fraktur!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:31 AM
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!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:31 AM
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201: And a microphone?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:33 AM
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263 is not entirely correct, according to my in-house Germanist.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:34 AM
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265: a pretty nice one, at that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:34 AM
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re: 267

I'm envisaging some sort of valve-powered ribbon mic, left over from the 30th Street Studio.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:36 AM
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My source. I'd heard it before, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:39 AM
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||
Question for the in-house Germanist.
Do any of the poems of Gottlob Burmann (1737-1805) survive? He was seemingly an antecedent to oulipo, reputedly never using the letter 'r' in his poems due to a dislike of the letter.
Not that I'd understand one if it was in front of me.
|>


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:40 AM
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Wiki:

"This radically changed when on January 3, 1941, Martin Bormann issued a circular to all public offices which declared Fraktur (and its corollary, the Sütterlin-based handwriting) to be Judenlettern (Jewish letters) and prohibited their further use. ".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:41 AM
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On behalf of the Führer I notify for common attention that:

Regarding and calling the so called gothic typeface as a German typeface is wrong. In fact, the gothic typeface consists of Jew-letters from Schwabach. Like they later gained control of the newspapers, the Jews living in Germany had seized control over the printing shops at introduction of the printing press, so that the Schwabacher Jew-letters were heavily introduced in Germany.

Today the Führer decided in a meeting with Reichsleiter Amann and book printing shop owner Adolf Müller, that the Antiqua typeface is to be called the normal typeface in future. Step by step all printing products have to be changed to this normal typeface. As soon as this is possible for school books, in schools only the normal typeface will be taught.

Authorities will refrain from using the Schwabacher Jew-letters in future; certificates of appointment, road signs and similar will only be produced in normal typeface in future. On behalf of the Führer, Mr. Amann will first change those papers and magazines to normal typeface, that are already spread abroad or are wanted to be.
Signed Martin Bormann

Anyone who wants to establish their ant-Nazi cred in a big way should switch to the Schwabacher Judenlettern immediately.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:44 AM
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268: hah! No, not that nice. The regular ol' shure used everywhere by everybody.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:46 AM
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You are not scraping by in a blown-out, post apocalyptic, or even elegantly decaying, New York.

In NY as in most major cities, space and light are only available to the non-wealthy if they come with poor transportation options, dubious plumbing, and insecure possession. She's in a position to make that tradeoff because she works at home and doesn't have kids.

I like the place but it also looks like a perfect setting for an anthropologie photoshoot, and perhaps I don't like being reminded of how conditioned my tastes are. But overall, her place isn't nearly as full of annoying signifier furniture as most of the dwellings featured on, frex, Apartment Therapy (or maybe her signifiers are more rarefied and I'm just not getting them). Although that Vitra plastic office supply organizer is one of those things. I like the photo of the desk that has that centered like a sacred object. $400 pencil holder!

Actually, I think I'm just tired of being invited to envy the possessions of complete strangers on the internet, but if you visit those style blogs enough you do eventually develop a sort of immunity. I used to want an eames lounge chair but now I sneer when I see them.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:52 AM
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273: This?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:56 AM
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Heh. (No.)


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:58 AM
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Do any of the poems of Gottlob Burmann (1737-1805) survive?

Here's a digital version of Einige Gedichte ohne den Buchstaben R.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:58 AM
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228: Boris doesn't have any furniture because nothing is good enough for him.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:02 AM
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I used to want an eames lounge chair but now I sneer when I see them.

Ha! Yes. And besides, the Poäng is so comfortable.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:03 AM
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242 Jenna has a Keep Calm and Carry On poster. Fail.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:04 AM
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Jenna has a Keep Calm and Carry On poster. Fail.

What!??!?! What is wrong with that??



Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:06 AM
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I'm sitting under the skylights contemplating how well grounded I am because I don't even own a turntable or German poetry.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:09 AM
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Now is the part of the thread where everyone has to name one item they find mockable in apartments, and everyone who has one has to admit it.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:09 AM
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"I used to want an eames lounge chair"

I want & need a comfortable desk chair and I don't care what the fuck it costs as long as it doesn't make the fucking sciatica worse. Any recommendations?

I have all my books AND the DE's on law, language, costumes, cake decorating, SF, art, and lots of other shit in several languages. This entitles me to a large rent-controlled apartment in a trendy area of town.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:11 AM
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274

Actually, I think I'm just tired of being invited to envy the possessions of complete strangers on the internet ...

What a negative attitude. You might see something you like and can adapt to your place.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:11 AM
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281: Its so 2009.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:11 AM
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I have a kung zhu hamster fighting arena in the most conspicuous portion if my living room. It's been there since 2011.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:11 AM
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284: CB2 has a relatively cheap one made with bungee cords that I find pretty damn comfortable.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:13 AM
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I have a Keep Calm and Carry On print in my office. It seems appropriate in a divorce lawyer's office.

I am not cool enough to know what things in my house are subject to mocking. I am certain that there are lots.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:20 AM
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284: We had Aerons at my office for a while and they were great. Later replaced with some other equally expensive model and now everybody has chronic back aches. So I'd check out the aeron.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:21 AM
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284: The a Herman Miller Aeron continues to be the best office chair I have ever used. Do not have one at my current workspace and that makes me a wee bit grumpy, although what I do have (Steelcase Leap) is pretty damn good as well.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:21 AM
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-a


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:22 AM
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Doesnt everyone either sit on exercise balls or stand like Donald Rumsfeld?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:23 AM
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289: Oh, sorry will. But you're not giving a house tour on the internetz, either. Of which I have looked at too many. The KCACO poster is usually hanging over the eames lounge chair. Or sometimes leaning against the chalkboard wall.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:24 AM
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Thanks, y'all. Off to look at chairs. There's a CB2 very close to here, I'll have to find an Aeron somewhere.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:33 AM
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279: Do you really have a Poäng? I don't actually remember what the chair looks like, but it's my favorite Ikea name. Sometimes I just murmur, "Poäng" to myself.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:35 AM
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Yikes! I have two of those, one white, one black. The cats like them just fine, I can't get out of them without a struggle.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:40 AM
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296: we don't yet, but Blume is plotting to replace one of the chairs we do have (which only 50% of us find comfortable enough to sit in) with one.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:40 AM
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||

I was just looking at buying a Toshiba ultrabook, except I just went to their website and they said "For executives, prosumers and the mega-mobility minded, the Portégé® Z830 series exceeds expectations as our thinnest and lightest 13" PC with intelligent features and superior craftsmanship at an attractive price point."

Its a nice laptop, but fuck if I am going to stand for being called a "prosumer".

|>


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:43 AM
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I was visiting a friend who was looking for a sublet, and I went with her to at least a dozen apartments in Brooklyn one weekend, every one of which had a Poäng. That of course is not why I want one -- I really do find them extremely comfortable.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:44 AM
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283

Now is the part of the thread where everyone has to name one item they find mockable in apartments, and everyone who has one has to admit it.

Obama poster.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:44 AM
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My own irritability is just a product of living in the artsy-craftsy-bourgeois parts of Brooklyn too long not to see how carefully those pictures are signifying. Signifying was the one thing I couldn't learn to do when I lived there; I don't have the style, the money, or the eyes, really, one at least of which one needs to learn how to give off a particular desired air. Not knowing how to signify properly means I was just a tiresome weirdo who refused to be easy to read.

Looking at pictures like this stresses me out because the best chance I have at a job next year is in the NYC area, and already I hear the voice in the back of my brain saying I have to live in X particular neighborhood and I have to get Y kind of apartment so I can go to Z kinds of places and Jesus Christ I hate what NYC made me try to become. All envy is self-loathing.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:58 AM
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just a tiresome weirdo who refused to be easy to read.

Be like Boris. Just don't have stuff.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:07 PM
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302 - Comity


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:09 PM
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Yeah, if you move back to NY, I think you really need to figure out how to avoid the aspects of it that make you crazy. Move to Washington Heights, or Flushing, or someplace, and just don't be the people who drive you nuts. You can still do the stuff you enjoy about it, just stay out of the lifestyle that makes you crazy.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:11 PM
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I don't understand the Keep Calm and Carry On. What is it supposed to mean? I was cat-sitting for some friends recently and they have quite a few variations on that theme. I just chalked it up to him being British (well, born in Kenya, but raised in Britain).


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:14 PM
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There was a time when I think everyone I knew had a Poang chair. Granted, I know a lot of students but they must have sold zillions.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:17 PM
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They were originally sort of public service posters, right? During the Blitz? So now people have them to show that they have such busy stressful multitasking modern lives that they have to remind themselves to keep calm. Or maybe it actually comforts them. I don't know.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:22 PM
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Also, if this is the thread to gripe about irritating things, can I just say how annoying I find this gee-whiz article about LIFT?

Throwing chipper young things with oodles of social capital and no relevant real-world experience into situations where they're counseling people 10-30 years older than them is not a groundbreaking recipe for social justice. Pah.

(Full disclosure: I've talked with a number LIFT volunteers. They're uniformly well-intentioned, if uniformly ignorant. Someday I plan to write the definitive guide to How Not to Muck Up Other People's Lives. Chapter 1 will be titled "Keep your mouth closed for the first six months.")


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:22 PM
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Just a tiresome weirdo who refused to be easy to read.

Story of my life, of course.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:23 PM
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I took the Apple sticker which came with my wife's iPod and stuck it on my oven. About once a month, a visitor to my house will ask me if it is an Apple oven, if it is (I have no fucking idea how this might be possible) Mac-compatible and where did I buy it. On one memorable occasion, a particularly ardent Apple fan-fellow claimed to own one just like it.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:29 PM
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They were originally sort of public service posters, right?

For values of "sort of". They were produced by the Ministry of Information to be put up around the country in the event of a successful Nazi invasion. They took off in the last couple of years because the Crown Copyright expired.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:32 PM
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by "a successful Nazi invasion" above, I mean one which, from the Nazi point of view, achieved its goals in constituting a properly executed invasion of the British Isles. I don't mean to imply any more general endorsement - in many senses, a Nazi invasion would be a very unsuccessful thing to have happened. Apart from for the guy who designed the posters, who could perhaps be forgiven a little secret gladness that they eventually got used. Although in the end he got that anyway.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:38 PM
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Everybody was to stay calm and wait for Canada and Australia to rescue them.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:41 PM
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I first saw the design, on b\oing b\oing I think, presented for contemporary use as a critique of overreaction to terrorism and general scaremongering by governments.


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:42 PM
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They were produced by the Ministry of Information to be put up around the country in the event of a successful Nazi invasion.

I'm thinking this out.

"Don't be a dog in the manger! Hand Britain properly down to the Boche!"

"There's nothing worse than being mistaken for a Serb."

"Making a fuss is not the British way".

"Huns 1, Brits 0. Remember fair play: a gentleman does not question the final score."


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:42 PM
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It is, of course, the same message as on the cover of the Hitchhiker's Guide. The logo is a bit more staid, though.


Posted by: jim | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:48 PM
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I would have expected the message to be more like "Keep Calm and Sabotage Things."


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:49 PM
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"Keep Calm and Remember the French Went Down Sooner."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 12:51 PM
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"Keep Calm and Manufacture Only Veblen Goods."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 1:01 PM
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It's in the tradition of "Lie Back and Think of England."


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 1:09 PM
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I would have expected the message to be more like "Keep Calm and Sabotage Things."

These are to be displayed after Reinhard Heydrich is installed as Governor General, remember?

The instructions to sabotage things will be verbal and one on one. But one thing the Brit authorities want to avoid is likely lads having a go at passing Waffen SS units and causing their villages to be wiped out in retribution.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 1:11 PM
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If you put a map of England on the ceiling over the bed (taped to the mirror?), that would be much easier.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 1:12 PM
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"Was it good for you?"

"You know, East Anglia looks like a skull if you stare at it long enough."


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 1:18 PM
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324 wins the internet. We can all log off now.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 1:42 PM
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"Keep Calm and Remember the French Went Down Sooner

By definition. But you can't blame the Brits too much, that genetic stiff upper lip makes things difficult for them.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 1:54 PM
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322 and 312 don't really make sense; the Ministry of Information was considering the propaganda posters it would put out once it had been replaced by a Nazi puppet regime? Wikipedia suggests that the poster was kept in reserve for a major problem, like a devastating air raid, but eventually wasn't put into widespread circulation because more aggressive and martial slogans were favored.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 1:55 PM
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the French Went Down Sooner

... and when they went down, they went down in flames!

Sorry, I'm still stuck on the Rene the French fighter pilot joke.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 2:00 PM
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I may be one of the least appropriate commenters to say this, but while I don't really agree with Natlio and Lambent Cactus, I kind of appreciate the sentiment. It's a way of saying "Hey, 1990s-2000s, we are sick to death of the notion that just because the rich people have good taste and aren't ostentatious and might even be liberal in their heart of hearts doesn't give them a pass. Times suck and everyone goes up against the wall unless they share the wealth, and fuck you carefully selected bohemian design."

I mean, I like design myself and would totally be up against the wall, but I approve of the general sentiment. I like hating on the idea that you can appropriately-consumer your way out of being a loathsome richie.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 2:13 PM
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Oh well sentence structure. It should have been, since I know you all care so much, "Hey, 1990s-2000s, we are sick to death of the notion that just because the rich people have good taste and aren't ostentatious and might even be liberal in their heart of hearts we can't bitch about them. That doesn't give them a pass. Times suck and everyone goes up against the wall unless they share the wealth, and fuck you carefully selected bohemian design."


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 2:15 PM
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Halford, you do have a pretty obscenely well-appointed home. Against the wall, pig!


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 2:15 PM
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Oh, I know. My ability to consume relentlessly knows no bounds, tempered only by an equally relentless, but ineffectual, self-loathing. I guess I would be sad if they came after my house.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 2:19 PM
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London Can Take It


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 2:22 PM
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On the books thing, I am once again reminded of Joan Didion's description of the Reagan's new California Governor's Mansion in her essay "Many Mansions" from The White Album:

In the entire house there are only enough bookshelves for a set of the World Book and some Books of the Month, plus maybe three Royal Doulton figurines and a back file of Connoissuer. ... I have seldom seen a house so evocative of the unspeakable.
And since we are boring and repetitive all narrative is cyclical, Natilo from earlier in that thread: I don't even have friends who don't own lots of books.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 2:40 PM
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329

I mean, I like design myself and would totally be up against the wall, but I approve of the general sentiment. I like hating on the idea that you can appropriately-consumer your way out of being a loathsome richie.

If your real gripe is that this woman has too much money (and I doubt she is part of the 1%) then what is all this stuff about how many books she owns and her taste in decor?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 3:07 PM
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We contain multitudes, James.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 3:14 PM
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335: ...and those shoes and that coat, jeeeeez!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 3:18 PM
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144: Well you also said it was shallow and politically incorrect. And suggested she has no talent but just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Is this actually the resistant reading that people are performing on what I wrote? Because it's completely absurd. I didn't suggest she has no talent. I pointed out that she, like a bunch of other people, were among the last group of talented youngsters who could show up in New York and make a go of it in a relatively non-horrible way. My impression is that doing what she did is really not possible at this juncture. Could be, I'm not a New York real estate broker, but it seems unlikely.

I did say her art was shallow. And I think it objectively is. How deep are those window wells? 3 ft.? Even less? That's pretty shallow.

And I didn't say she was "politically incorrect", because "political correctness" is a piece of Stalinist shorthand that was resurrected by the far right in the 1980s to attack vocal minorities and bludgeon anyone who asked for respect. In terms of the politics of her art, I think the analysis that what she's doing provides some important material benefit for all the people who could never afford the stuff she's shilling for is indefensible. The whole fucking point of conspicuous consumption is that you're lording it over the people who can't do it. Yes, it maintains your position with regards to your peers, but only because it shows that you have not descended to the lower depths. The attention and admiration that the average working class person gives to her window displays is creating value for the plutocrats who can actually afford the products displayed therein.

"Enough books" is functionally equivalent to "a large whiskey" -- there ain't no such thing.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 3:55 PM
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338

... And I didn't say she was "politically incorrect", ...

No, in 83 you implied her art was politically incorrect by contrasting it with:

... stuff that actually has good politics ...

continuing with 338

... I pointed out that she, like a bunch of other people, were among the last group of talented youngsters who could show up in New York and make a go of it in a relatively non-horrible way. My impression is that doing what she did is really not possible at this juncture. ...

I don't see why not if you are both talented and lucky.

"Enough books" is functionally equivalent to "a large whiskey" -- there ain't no such thing.

If nobody can have enough books then criticizing her for not having enough is silly.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 4:28 PM
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I'm inclined to take the Emma Goldman maxim about dancing -- 'If there's no dancing I don't want to part of your revolution' -- as also being applicable to stuff. There's nothing wrong with wanting to live in an environment one finds aesthetically pleasing, or have the use of nice things. Having a few bits of nice furniture, or some nice clothes, or whatever it is, isn't or shouldn't be anathema. I'm also somewhat concerned that 'art that has good politics' might mean crusty-punk shite.

That's not to say that there's anything wrong with being judgmental about people's taste. That's just the stuff we hairless ape types do. But most of the time, absent really obscene or damaging consumption of the SUV-driving/solid-gold-lavvy-pan type, it's just an aesthetic judgment and not a real political statement.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 4:49 PM
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340: I have a coffee cup with Red Emma on it that says "Sooner or later the American people are going to wake up." Evil consumerist appropriation? Am I forgiven if it was bought from the Emma Goldman Papers Project as a fundraiser?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 4:58 PM
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You could put it on a shelf and think of it as a book. Quite a terse, cup-shaped book.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:02 PM
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336: What slogan is shared by Durex, the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, and Playtex?


Posted by: Opinionated Carnac the Magnificent | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:05 PM
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'If there's no dancing I don't want to part of your revolution'

Sure, but the fact that the rich are dancing doesn't get them off the hook in the revolution, either. Which I took to be Natlio's point.

Anyhow, I have to get offline because I'm meeting with landscapers who are finally starting to put in my new backyard deck and (hopefully) an extraordinarily tasteful, drought tolerant, native-plant front yard, followed by a meal at a pop-up gourmet restaurant. Heighten the contradictions, baby!


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:09 PM
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Don't know.


Posted by: The Google | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:11 PM
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Shit, I don't like to dance.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:12 PM
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I don't feel any animus towards the lady in the apartment - we all do what we need to, within limits, and I'm certainly no different - but I think there is something to what Natilo is getting at. The aesthetic criticism of her window displays is the one I think has some legs, which is that the over-the-top-DIY-sumptuousness thing is now often kind of annoying. (Note: am in sympathy with the position of the sinner, and slightly annoyed at the sin.)

Back in the day, that sort of faux-naive 'wonderland' aesthetic was often used to express the genuine longing for beauty kids without means (I'm thinking here of the Cocteau Twins and the 4AD label in general) and often by the kids without means themselves (teenagers doing up their bedrooms). It's really a variant of Goth. You're less touched by such displays when the person whose desires are being expressed genuinely lives among luxury. "What are they longing for, when they already live in it?" "An ideal". Okay, but it's not that the rich can't have valid longings, or even longings for ideal beauty - it's that it can be slightly odd to express it in that particular DIY-inflected way when you have means. I'm thinking here not so much the window-dresser lady's level of affluence but an entertainment-world level of luxury. (This is not quite the same as criticising whites for liking the blues, or Lana Del Rey for not actually having lived in a trailer, because in those cases they're not using their own real-world position as a metaphor for an ideal. Still, I wouldn't want to push this too far because, hey, individuals are individuals.)

But when it's done in the service of a soulless machine like a department store, it's even less interesting. It's lazy (at the level of intent rather than execution).


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:19 PM
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344: I intend to spend it all before they come for me and then I intend to make that last bit costly too. The Aeron arrives next week.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:20 PM
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345: You're old enough to be expected to know Carson gags.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:21 PM
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Oh sure, I take the 'having good taste doesn't get you off the hook' point -- and I'm as lefty as the next person -- but I didn't read that in Natilo's comments.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:21 PM
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347: I thought we were far enough along the post-bricks-and-mortar curve that the great department stores now seem like vital monuments something Art Deco something Au Bonheur des Dames something.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:31 PM
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s/b "the genuine longing for beauty of (i.e. by) kids without means"


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:41 PM
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329: I kind of appreciate the sentiment

Indeed. I've been a little surprised that people don't see the point Natilo and Lambent Cactus have been making.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 5:52 PM
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353

Indeed. I've been a little surprised that people don't see the point Natilo and Lambent Cactus have been making.

Maybe you could explain it to us. Perhaps starting with the complaint that there are not enough books in the apartment.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:02 PM
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354: I'm pretty sure Natilo and others have said it well enough. As for the books, eh, I'm a used book seller; anything I say about that is to be taken as coming from the far end of the spectrum. I'll argue with you about house plants if you like.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:10 PM
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351: I like a good department store as much as the next guy, but am just a little miffed that they've reappropriated the appropriation of their luxe-ness by the kids.


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:24 PM
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Also, the name-dropping. The brand name dropping. Oh, that's blah! and that's a blah-blah! Honestly. AWB gets it right in 302.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:38 PM
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357: In an interview where she's asked? Good grief. Why women agree to show themselves on the internet is beyond me.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:41 PM
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In any event, parsi, what brand name? She mentions one. Blah, blah indeed.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:44 PM
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I guess this is super annoying me because everyone is flatly making shit up about this person. Parsi castigates her for her name dropping (entirely made up by parsi). Nati and others because she enough books and doesn't read (they have no fucking clue). Quit projecting! Christ.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:46 PM
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OT: SpikeTV is running a Fat Steven Seagal marathon. I hope the guy at aikido class who told me to study Seagal's technique, as a tall person, was referring to his thin period.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:48 PM
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Why women agree to show themselves on the internet is beyond me.

Everyone watch me not touching that one.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:49 PM
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Touching it would be difficult, given the whole Internet thing.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:52 PM
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360: I should clarify that I wasn't talking about the woman profiled in the OP. I was talking about the signaling (or, as AWB puts it, signifying) phenomenon in general; when it ventures into moneyed territory, people drop names, and references. I'd be surprised if you haven't noticed.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 6:54 PM
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I suppose it can be countered that people in less moneyed territories also drop names: Why, that's walmart! I picked that up at Good Will! Or, Oh, I never touch Pabst Blue Ribbon, that stuff is crap, it's Molson all the way for me.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:00 PM
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Everyone watch me not touching that one.

The less successful follow-up to that MC Hammer track.


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:06 PM
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Then I guess there's the difference, or non-difference, between "I knew [famous person] (or her sister, or cousin) in high school, or college!" in the UMC set and less UMC set. Is everyone aspirational? It seems more grasping to me among the UMC.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:06 PM
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I'm drinking Dale's Pale Ale because I misunderstood the happy hour special.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:06 PM
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Sometimes, humans see something other humans have and wonder what it is and how it might be obtained.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:07 PM
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365: Also Jesus, a lot.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:07 PM
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Probably nonhuman primates do the same thing. "Oh, this banana? It came from the big tree over by the river."


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:08 PM
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OT: Did someone or something named "Lana del Rey" murder a bunch of puppies this weekend or something?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:10 PM
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I don't see what Jesus has to do with it, Flip.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:10 PM
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Lana del Rey killed Jesus?!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:11 PM
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I have no fucking idea who Lana del Rey is. Someone mentioned her (presumably) recently. I'm sure it's not hard to find out, if one is interested.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:14 PM
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371: Probably nonhuman primates do the same thing. "Oh, this banana? It came from the big tree over by the river."

Yeah? Are the nonhuman primates bragging when they do that? Well, we don't know, do we?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:17 PM
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Did Charles Barkley do a MC Hammer with his money or something?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:18 PM
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Apparently she sucked on SNL, the spot for which she was given without having even an album out, presumably because she is the creation of some major label for whom she got a fuckton of plastic surgery and a new name and a fake life. I think "Video Games" is a good song, really, but she did a bad job of singing it on the show. She kept trying to do this little-girl sexy thing that might look good in a close-up camera for a video, but looks extremely sad in long shot. Also, she doesn't switch between high and low registers well when she's nervous, it seems.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:19 PM
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I mean, other people suck on SNL all the time. I don't even want to see acts I like play that show. It's a bad theater for music, and the context is rotten, and no one knows who you are. As someone on Stereogum noted, when Ke$ha, who also is completely fake and a studio product, sucked on SNL, no one cared. Apparently people are very upset because they thought she was the real (fake) deal.

Whatever. If she's actually good, she'll survive it. If she's not, then fine, but people are acting like she was EXPOSED as a FRAUD.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:22 PM
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I've only really heard the one song because it's not my kind of music, really, but it's pretty catchy. If she got herself all cut up because they told her she could have a chance at superstardom and then it turns out SNL ruined her label's obscenely over-the-top hype, I wouldn't be surprised if she ODs or something. But my guess is she's gutsy enough to figure out her next move.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:25 PM
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Does she have a better voice than Ke$ha?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:26 PM
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What does her apartment look like?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:32 PM
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Everyone has a better voice than Ke$ha. The link in my 380 has a sample. I think it's a really nice voice to listen to, but some of what she's doing is quite deceptively difficult and she clearly doesn't have any training or much experience and can't perform live.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:32 PM
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383: I don't. I once made a music teacher cry.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:35 PM
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Sooo, if you can afford gold toilet seats it would be pretentious not to buy them, but for the love of god don't show them to anyone.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:41 PM
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The weird authenticity fits people have been having over Lana del Rey are incomprehensible to me. It's as if suddenly the world was run by fourth graders who decided that entertainment could only be generated by people whose identities had perfect correspondence to their performances. I realize that not everyone lives in a funhouse of make-believe and affect, but for chrissakes since when were pop stars not allowed to play dress-up?

I haven't caught the SNL hatefest, but since I've heard of LdR there's been this weird background noise of CONTROVERSY. And it's baffling. Hot chick, great song, bunch of not-as-great songs. Put Video Games on your mixtapes and let her have her run.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:42 PM
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Can you at least show the guy where you want the gold toilet seats installed?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:42 PM
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387: For true authenticity you have to install them yourself.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:45 PM
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But no one can afford gold toilet seats, because every dollar spent on that could have been spent filling your apartment with more books.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:45 PM
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I had never heard of Lana del Rey until someone linked that video in an earlier thread. I like the song.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:46 PM
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Gold toilet seats aren't to my taste. I like the clear acrylic ones with leaves inside. Shows my appreciation of nature and make me feel better about buying the soft tp.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:46 PM
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389: Well, some people can, but they shouldn't, because books.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:46 PM
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I don't understand the controversy either. There's nothing more embarrassing by people saying "I was duped into liking this!" Whether it's Lana Del Rey or parents expressing their outrage that Foster The People fooled them into playing their kids a fun song about school shootings.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:47 PM
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389: I looted mine from one of Saddam's palaces.

386: I basically agree with all of this, but man oh man, did the inarticulate moue-making sexxxy-baby SNL performance kill me. Other than that, she's not exactly the first re-invented mouseketeer type.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:49 PM
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390: Likewise. Who was responsible for bringing such inauthenticity into Unfogged?!


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:50 PM
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Also, the plastic surgery thing should have been obvious.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:53 PM
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I looted mine from one of Saddam's palaces.

I hope you took some books too.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:54 PM
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396: I'm going to assume you are calling for enough visible cleavage for anybody to be able to see for themselves. I'll sign the petition.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:57 PM
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397: But the pages are all uncut!


Posted by: OPINIONATED GLASSES GUY IN THE LIBRARY | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:57 PM
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It's too bad that the having of a lot of books has taken such a trouncing in this thread.

Frankly, I don't see the point of having pens or pencils. So cluttery.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:57 PM
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Well, she is the very first possibly non-authentic person/thing/event to ever be on the internet. Outrage is understandable.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:58 PM
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Oh -- sorry. I haven't been following the Lana del Rey thing.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:58 PM
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It's as if suddenly the world was run by fourth graders who decided that entertainment could only be generated by people whose identities had perfect correspondence to their performances. I realize that not everyone lives in a funhouse of make-believe and affect, but for chrissakes since when were pop stars not allowed to play dress-up?

Sorry, the ephemerality thread is up-blog.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 7:59 PM
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It's too bad that the having of a lot of books has taken such a trouncing in this thread.
In fact, it has not.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:02 PM
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I'll sign the petition.
Okay, just let me pull up my shirt.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:03 PM
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404: It's possible that I'm sensitive in that area.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:04 PM
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406 to 405.last.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:06 PM
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I'm pretty sure that, on the whole, Unfogged is book hoarding positive.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:08 PM
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Who was responsible for bringing such inauthenticity into Unfogged?!

I think it might have been me.


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:08 PM
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400

It's too bad that the having of a lot of books has taken such a trouncing in this thread.

It's ok to have a lot of books. But it is also ok not to have a lot books. Especially if not a lot means a mere couple hundred.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:10 PM
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It's too bad that the having of a lot of books has taken such a trouncing in this thread.

I think some of the comments about her not having enough books are also judgements about her not having enough couth.

Since I was an early "not enough books" reactor, I plead to this. I also admit it was a snap, snarky, judgement that was not needed.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:12 PM
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Thanks for that, James. How many house plants do you have?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:12 PM
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It's too bad that the having of a lot of books has taken such a trouncing in this thread.

I hate books in fact. I think that the more books a person has, the more boring s/he is.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:17 PM
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They certainly do clutter up a place.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:20 PM
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412

Thanks for that, James. How many house plants do you have?

I don't have any. If I have house plants they die which makes me feel guilty.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:21 PM
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||

I don't know what it means that, after flying clear across the country and picking a tasty-sounding restaurant for lunch with my friends, I end up in running in to another unfogged commenter, but it seems relevant somehow.

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:23 PM
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I proclaim this thread extremely tiresome. Everyone, please move along.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:25 PM
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Oh, that sounds like the type of thing that happens to k-sky.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:27 PM
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417: You sound like one of those nerds who has a bunch of books in his house. No place for you here.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:29 PM
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This thread could be more ephemeral, it's true.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:31 PM
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Neb! I'm sure everyone knows, and is just idling.

The Republican debate seems to be the work of a bunch of nutjobs, meanwhile: a mention of the fact that Romney's grandfather was from Mexico got boos from the audience (?!), and then Juan Williams said that Gingrich was "belittling" people with various of his remarks about people on food stamps, and was also booed.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:34 PM
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418: oh, hey, look at that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:36 PM
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415: I once kept some kind of ivy plant in my office. I used it as a spittoon and it lived to two years until I left the job. I passed it on to somebody else who didn't know what snuff was so they didn't know why the plant smelled funny.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:36 PM
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I was just going to proclaim this thread terribly entertaining. Sometimes I think I am the opposite of nosflow.

Now everybody has to name who they're the opposite of.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:36 PM
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Hitler.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:37 PM
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Satan.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:39 PM
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I've probably got less than 100 books.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:40 PM
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427 so then you're the opposite of Natilo.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:46 PM
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Chuck Berry.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:48 PM
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Between the books and the business degree, it seems I am.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:49 PM
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On occasion I've entertained the ridiculous notion that some books are better than others, such that a library of millions of Tom Clancy volumes is outweighed by a single copy of, say, Lolita, but that can't be right. It's clearly all about numbers.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:51 PM
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I call dibs on Halford.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:51 PM
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Is that copy of Lolita made of gold? Because then, maybe.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:53 PM
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Could I be the opposite of parsimon?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:53 PM
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417: No need to be jealous, neb; the 27 comments in your thread are not tiresome one bit.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:54 PM
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434: I doubt it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:57 PM
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I'm the opposite of some productive, well-rested lurker.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 8:59 PM
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Could I be the opposite of parsimon?

I think you have to show your golden copy of Lolita to earn this.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:21 PM
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On the Lana Del Rey and inauthenticity thing, I think it's pretty clear that it's the girl's own creative vision at work in her songs. Can't find the interview I was thinking of as evidence of this, where she talks about how her ex-boyfriend and how 'he loved America and Las Vegas', but here's another. Also, an older song of hers that I like. Not that I'm obsessed or anything.


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:26 PM
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417: No need to be jealous, neb; the 27 comments in your thread are not tiresome one bit.

Thirty-three, I'll have you know.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:33 PM
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The Golden Lolita would be a great award name. Not coming up with an appropriate category/criteria for the award, however. Most discerning reader? Measured in Insights Above Replacement Book Collection (IARBC).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:47 PM
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440: Good. Keep us informed.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 9:48 PM
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I gave your mom something aere durior last night, you know.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 10:02 PM
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Does Lana del Rey have anything to do with Llano del Rio?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:21 PM
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re: 439

There was a decent (somewhat overwritten) interview with the Quietus a while back. Apparently she spends quite a bit of time in Glasgow (contra trailer park authenticity 'controversy' that no sane person cares about)

http://thequietus.com/articles/07106-lana-del-rey-interview

And yeah, to what AWB says about live singing. She's been live on UK tv a few times, and good once, and really not good another time.

Sod all the authenticity bollocks, though.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:35 PM
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Oh, I agree. I mean, her stuff's often so-so, and might well never do anything as striking as "Video Games" again. But she's interesting. (Not a model for all womanhood, obviously.)


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:53 PM
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might well never do anything as striking as "Video Games" again

Have you heard "Blue Jeans"? I actually prefer it to "Video Games".


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 01-16-12 11:56 PM
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447: I did, and like it a lot. Even the coda is great. But it didn't have quite the impact for me that the other did. Seemed a little more generically noirish, maybe. "Video Games" seemed just extremely real. But de gustibus.


Posted by: One of Many | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 12:07 AM
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Sense du blog doesn't make fun of Cat and Girl the way it does of xkcd; does C&G get it right, or is the author a local?

I looked at the OP apartment photos again, looking for a signifier, and have a possibly new theory: it's a nineteenth century painter's atelier. Big windows, cold, shabby oriental carpets, sketching tools ready to hand, and it explains the smock. (It's lightweight to be a farming smock, and not particularly childish, but! Painter's smock! How degage to not wear anything beneath.) There's either a George Gissing novel or a Masterpiece Theater series to match, I bet.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 1:22 AM
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441: I think the golden lolita is obviously a horrible award that would be given at a pedophile convention for creative luring.
also, flippanter is the opposite of anton lavey, obvs.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 1:27 AM
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We've got a nominee just a few minutes from here.


Lt. Mike Roberts with the Pleasant Grove Police Department says, "He would play what he called the fishing game." According to a probable cause statement, Little admitted to "placing a rope from the roadway in front of his house into the garage attached to his house. He affixed a note to the end of the rope near the roadway which instructed the reader to "tug" or "yank" on the rope and receive a prize. He admitted to standing in his garage with the rope tied to his scrotum." Police say Little played this game when he knew kids would be walking home from school.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 1:37 AM
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I think that's been mentioned here before, or multiple people have tried that.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 2:05 AM
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it's a bold strategy, but there does seem to be significant risk involved.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 2:09 AM
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You'd definitely want to limit the action.
It makes me wonder at what remove would it no longer be illegal. Like if it were some Rube Goldberg contraption, or maybe used a cell phone's vibrate setting.
Idly wonder, I assure you.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 2:13 AM
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Cellphone's vibrate setting linked to how the Bieber is trending on You Tube. Disintermediation!

I was just thinking about this today, while picking up underwear and condoms left at the parking-spot for the nature reserve I work in. The enthusiasts left dirty names and sketches all over the research-and-birding sign-in sheet. Seems to me they get some of their jollies by my reading what they wrote, which means I am involved in their sexual act, and I did not consent. (Last fall I managed not to trip over two shepherds trysting in some bushes, who were in no way interested in my presence, and that wasn't creepy or annoying at all.)


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 2:34 AM
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...Not disintermediation. Complete anonymized intermediation. Definitely I can't trust anything I write tonight for *work*.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 2:35 AM
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450.1: creative luring.

Then Jerry Sandusky gets a lifetime achievement for starting a kid-focused charity.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 2:39 AM
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443: I'll let her know.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 2:39 AM
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I have Poangs. And a ThinkPad. Which I named "9 to 5-Total Whitecollar" because, y'know, if you were trying to project an outrageously excessive camped-up one-per-center aesthetic, an X200S is exactly the laptop you'd pick.

***if this turns into the laptop thread, the harman/kardon speakers in the Toshiba NB520 netbook are really quite awesome, and the little fella could have been designed for a youtube party as it can do a suspend to RAM while continuing to play music, so you can close the rubberised lid and be reasonably confident it will survive some fool spilling beer on it***


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 4:07 AM
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Opposites: Everyone just take a Meyer-Briggs test. You'll get a code, INTP in my case. Then you can find your opposite, ESFJ. I am the opposite of Bill Clinton, Mary Tyler Moore, and Paris Hilton. (I can't see Hilton as a J, judgemental, though).


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 5:08 AM
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460: Recently did an online M-B, and my wife and I ended up opposites (strong ENTP for me, hers are all much more borderline and years ago when she did one two came out differently).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 6:38 AM
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Back to LDR, it's sort of amusing to me -- and this has nothing to do with her, just journalists furious insistence on making their narratives work -- that Lake Placid is getting described as "backwoods" nowheresville. It's fucking Currier and Ives, not David Lynch even a little. Also, are the journos pretending not to have heard of it or do they really not remember, say, the Olympics?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 7:58 AM
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The Lake Placid Olympics were thirty one years ago, so maybe journalists assumed they were too far back to be important to current events. Probably more relevant than the 1984 Winter Olympics are to the city that hosted them, but still.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:04 AM
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I have tried taking MB tests and I get different results every time. I think I have a lot of paradoxical personality traits. Extremely painfully shy and socially anxious, but ecstatic about performing, lecturing, telling jokes, etc. Terrible at talking about and understanding emotions, but I do talk about it all the time. And so forth.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:37 AM
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At one point I mentioned here that I was smack in the middle of every MB pair. Someone responded "That's because it's a normal distribution, and they're artificially splitting it in half and pretending it's bimodal." Since then I lost a lot of respect for the MB test.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:39 AM
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Right. I've always been a little jealous of people who can say things like "Oh, I'm an INTJ and that means I need to be asked questions or I can't form intimacies!" and I'm glad to be given operating instructions for friends. But I don't have instructions that work on me. :-(

Obviously, it's bullshit to group people this way, but I guess even the belief that one could apply a certain theory of interaction seems empowering.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:43 AM
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465 is how I feel about it though I wouldn't have put it in those terms. When we discovered it in high school it seemed revelatory because I was desperately in search of an identity. Later on I looked at the test and was like "80% of these depend on my mood."


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:43 AM
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464 and 466 are me.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:44 AM
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"80% of these depend on my mood."

I get livid over the style of test where they ask you spectrum questions, and you're only allowed to answer yes/no, and then they ask different variations of the same question on the premise that your yeses and noes will form the perfect ratio.

I'm pretty sure this must be a statistically invalid form of survey. Everybody finds it frustrating to answer. How can that possibly be tapping some real truth and not just measuring what people do when frustrated?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:48 AM
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What people do when frustrated is real. If I'm not frustrated, I hardly do anything at all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:49 AM
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MB is a handy way to get people talking about themselves. I figured it was like asking about a person's Zodiac sign. It might even give a little early insight, but after that nothing beats actually listening when someone talks about him/her self.

On a personal note, my MB score was very very near the middle on everything - I had no real strong traits, so I picked the category I most wanted to be and use that as my guide for something to aspire to. Details on request.

Oh, and the idea of the test opened my mind to the idea that other people could actually be naturally different from me, so that was good.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:50 AM
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Heebie, even though you're mediocre on all four poles, that doesn't mean that you're worthless That degree of mediocrity is almost never seen. You remain a special little snowflake.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:52 AM
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I was so delighted to be the opposite of those people that I decided that MB is infallible.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:53 AM
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the idea that other people could actually be naturally different from me

Yeah, I can see that. I think that's what I mean by the 466 example. I used to talk to people in the way I like to be talked to (no direct questions, discussing something external to our relationship rather than ourselves or our relationship itself, not relentlessly facing one another) and it was important to learn that other people think this means I don't care about them. I've had to learn to be a lot more direct and demonstrative. It would freak me the fuck out, but to each his/her own.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:56 AM
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460: Hah, I'm Emerson. Not actually surprised here.

I do believe that the MB test is mostly nonsense, but I come up way over to one side on three of the four scales, so I do recognize the description and identify with it. This has never been any use at all to me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:02 AM
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Hm.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:04 AM
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I can remember being massively frustrated by the MB before I decided it was nonsense. I could never figure out why I couldn't figure out if I was an introvert or not.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:09 AM
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475: Apparently I'm Emerson and LB. I don't know that I would have guessed that, which is not a slam at either of them even though it probably sounds like one.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:09 AM
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I can never be bothered to look up the abbreviations, so I assume Emerson and LB are introspective neurotypical protestants.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:10 AM
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Oh, I would have guessed it. Not that I always agree with you about everything, but the way you think about things makes sense without my having to work too hard at it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:11 AM
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I used to register as INTJ, but have been working on developing my ***P, and will soon start working on my E*** abilities as well.

It is a little useful to me as a map of some of the available dispositions and tradeoffs. Less so as some sort of fixed, essential "type".

474: I also had to learn that other people want something very different than what I did in social interactions (I used to prefer a higher confrontation:politeness ratio than most, and a high amount of explicit communication relative to chit-chat). However, this seems to have changed my disposition, so it takes me a little while to recognize people who want me to communicate in my formerly natural style, and I have to deliberately transition.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:13 AM
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Heebie, even though you're mediocre on all four poles, that doesn't mean that you're worthless That degree of mediocrity is almost never seen. You remain a special little snowflake.

We're talking about a world with 16 special snowflakes, right? And I broke the mold?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:17 AM
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I used to prefer a higher confrontation:politeness ratio than most, and a high amount of explicit communication relative to chit-chat

Yes, this. It's one of my biggest adjustments to the population of students I'm teaching now, who are really into chitchat and can be really passive-aggressive when they don't like something.

*big smile* "It's just, professor, that I think, um, I mean you're doing a great job; it's just that um sometimes, I mean you're really a great teacher and I'm so glad to be in your class, it's just that--um."

At my previous college, I had the student who raised his hand during class to tell me I was too ugly to expect people to have to look at me for 75 minutes at a time. I'm more comfortable with the latter, actually.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:17 AM
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Come to think of it, I've also been working on switching between T and F since I read NVC, though I need more practice with that.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:19 AM
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The only one of those categories where I've ever had a clear answer was that I'm an introvert. No surprise there. The others could go either way.

People talked about those tests all the damn time in high school.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:19 AM
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I hope you threw an eraser at the student.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:19 AM
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*big smile* "It's just, professor, that I think, um, I mean you're doing a great job; it's just that um sometimes, I mean you're really a great teacher and I'm so glad to be in your class, it's just that--um."

I get this a ton at Heebie U. Kids are endlessly polite. I don't think of it as being passive-aggressive, though, and more that they've been seriously indoctrinated into demonstrating respect for authority and feel genuinely conflicted when they have to violate that model.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:20 AM
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The MOST special of snowflakes! The ONLY ONE!!!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:20 AM
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Aaah! Why did you break that mold, heebie?!


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:22 AM
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It was MOLE. IT WAS MOLE!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:23 AM
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Theoretically, someone looking at Heebie's MB would probably just send her home, saying "We can't do anything for you. You're perfectly healthy". But does that ever happen? Did Freud ever describe anyone as healthy, or give a theoretical description of a healthy person, or acknowledge even in passing that some people have no particular problems? I doubt it, but I don't know.

Poor Heebie would be all alone in the world with no friends, the only one of her kind.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:23 AM
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And you COCKED it? Were you in a moving vehicle?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:24 AM
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486: Of course not. It was perfect for the lesson I was trying to teach. When you're talking about the burdens that racism and sexism place on certain people when they attempt to enter traditionally white male professions, it's much better to have an object lesson on hand than to have a class full of people saying, "Oh no we've never had a sexist or racist thought in our lives. It's so strange to hear you talk about these alien ideas."


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:24 AM
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I think that the N/S distinction is seriously broken as applied to very smart people. On the usual tests smart people will end up further on the N side of the spectrum than their actual personalities would warrant.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:24 AM
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483, that's not the difference between "passive-aggressively dishonest" and "aggressively honest", that's the difference between "tries to respect your feelings" and "psychopath".


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:25 AM
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Theoretically, someone looking at Heebie's MB would probably just send her home, saying "We can't do anything for you. You're perfectly healthy". ...
Poor Heebie would be all alone in the world with no friends, the only one of her kind.

So what's the theoretical part?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:25 AM
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480: It does make sense to me for that reason, so I'm not sure why I was surprised. I guess I just don't think much about MB types or whatever flows from that.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:28 AM
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494: Similarly, smart people will register as more introspective, because, let's face it, other people just aren't that interesting.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:28 AM
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495: *scribbles notes furiously*

Eh. I just can't fucking stand ass-kissing. I can't stand evil little psychopathic shitheads either, but at least I don't have to interpret anything through a veil of insincerity.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:28 AM
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I think that in practice the doctor would treat you for something. It was a Radio Yerevan joke.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:29 AM
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483: That must make the short-term positions suck even worse. At least in my experience, when I practice a style for long enough it becomes second nature and I don't even realize I'm doing it.

Sometimes this has been a very good thing. I'm happy I learned certain communication styles in college. I learned not to interrupt, how to be actually curious and help someone else make a stronger argument. It was a bit jarring when, afterwards, I found myself in conversations with people more like my former self (love to talk, don't really think about whether they interrupted someone). But it turns out that (unknowingly) I'd also learnt how to ameliorate interruptions in a gentle and respectful way: "I think Terry wasn't quite done with that thought..."

So maybe you will become more awesome in some ways. Maybe it's like learning a language and becomes much easier after the first and after the second one...


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:33 AM
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501 is true, I think. I've taught at six colleges, and worked at two others, covering pretty much all the kinds of colleges and kinds of students there are in the US. In a way, it makes interviewing for jobs difficult because they want to know what one's style is, and I'm thinking, Jesus, do I even *have* a style anymore?


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:37 AM
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all the kinds of colleges and kinds of students there are in the US

* except Jesus schools! I have never taught at a Jesus school.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:39 AM
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502: So, you mean that you have the style without style? Awesome.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:44 AM
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More seriously, have you considered redirecting that question to talk about specific student-styles you've encountered, and the teaching-styles you've employed to be effective?


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:46 AM
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I considered MB tests to be a basically harmless conversation starter until I heard rumors that HR types use them in evaluations and actually take them seriously.

I'd still like to believe that it's an urban legend, but I doubt it.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:47 AM
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There is nothing too stupid that at least one HR department doesn't do it, but I don't think using MB is common anymore.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:49 AM
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505: My big problem seems to be that I am way too teachy for a research job, and way too researchy for a teaching job, which is all I get interviews for. At every single interview that has not led to a job offer in the past five years, from adjunct work on up, I have heard exactly the following words:

I wish I could take your classes!
and
What a great lesson idea. I'm going to steal that!

Both of those are said at every interview when I am not going to be offered any subsequent invitations. I used to think they were compliments, but I have not ever heard them from anyone who intends to speak to me ever again.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:50 AM
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If they ask to subscribe to your newsletter...


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:53 AM
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That is, I think maybe my flexibility in the classroom and vast and varied experience in teaching are coming to seem a liability. I know that's a complainabrag, but I've heard similar from friends in my field. One friend recently found out that because he'd done a conference paper on a particular author that is only usually considered to be part of our field, a committee told his adviser they didn't want someone who was secretly really a scholar of that author, and so not "really" in our field. All of us have worked for most of a fucking decade to become as broad and flexible as humanly possible to beat this job market, and the people who get jobs are still the Ivy-League kids who have taught maybe one class in their lives and do single-author dissertations.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:54 AM
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I'm inclined to think that MB and similar are only slightly more reliable than Chinese fortune cookies; they rely on people correctly interpreting the intention and explanation of the tester, subjectively assessing their own behaviour and motivations and never falling into the trap of giving the "right" answer.

Can't be done.


Posted by: chris INTJ y | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:04 AM
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I've taught one class in my life. It was annoying.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:04 AM
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512: But how did the class go?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:06 AM
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The science that told me that I'm the diametrical opposite of Paris Hilton is good science. Anyone who says different will have to deal with me.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:07 AM
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513: Everybody learned a fuck-ton and those students now are now poised to take over various world renowned institutions and most first world national governments. Still, it was a great deal more work than I expected.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:10 AM
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There is nothing too stupid that at least one HR department doesn't dont it, but I don't think using MB is common anymore.

If you want to become an Episcopal priest, you have to undergo a psychological examination. (I'm sure that the exact requirements vary by diocese and are less stringent in dioceses that are desperate for priests.)

In MA, they have to take a Rorschach test. One young priest told me that he found it sort of surreal at the time, couldn't believe that he was actually taking one.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:17 AM
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The science that told me that I'm the diametrical opposite of Paris Hilton is good science. Anyone who says different will have to deal with me.

You don't need science or fortune cookies to tell you you're not female and richer than god. The waiter could tell you that, and then bring you a hot towel.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:18 AM
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I want & need a comfortable desk chair and I don't care what the fuck it costs as long as it doesn't make the fucking sciatica worse. Any recommendations?

Biohazard, I have the Aspen from Global at work. I like it a lot. Costco sells something too.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:23 AM
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If you want to become an Episcopal priest, you have to undergo a psychological examination.

You're in a desert, walking along in the sand, when all of a sudden you look round...

What one?

What?

What desert?

It doesn't make any difference what desert, it's completely hypothetical.

But, how come I'd be there?

Maybe you're leading your people out of Egypt. Maybe you want to deny the temptations of the Evil One. Who knows? You look down and see a burning bush, Leon.

A burning bush?

You know what a bush is?

Of course!

One of those, on fire. The flames are roaring around it, the smoke is rising, the leaves are shrivelling up and dropping to the sand. But you're not putting it out. Why is that, Leon?

... It's just a test, Leon. Let's try another one. Tell me in single words only the good things that come to mind about ... cake.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:23 AM
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Heh.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:31 AM
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If you want to become an Episcopal priest, you have to undergo a psychological examination.

I initially interpreted this as "If you want to become an Episcopal priest you need your head examined."


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:32 AM
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Okay, since no one asked: ENTJ! Oh yeah, smart as an INTJ, but with charm and charisma. And a lefty, too, so, you know, the trifecta!

Speaking of annoying tests, try out the MMPI test. Yee Gods. I recall one of the questions was so old it asked me if I got good grades in Deportment. I had no idea what Deportment was, but I was generally good in school, so I said yes, and then I found out Deportment meant manners, and they used to have a class on manners?! Which if they had had it when I went to school I would have been good at, cause I was a goody two-shoes back then. Until I learned I was an ENTJ. Then, well, I RULE! Male Lion. Uh huh. Laydeez . . .


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:35 AM
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502 it makes interviewing for jobs difficult because they want to know what one's style is

Things I have learned in the last two years about academic interviewers:

* They want you to have a "style," yes, and more generally they want to pigeonhole you.
* They would rather see 20 extremely similar publications on one narrow topic rather than 20 publications of equal or better quality spread out over a number of topics. Otherwise, they might hire you and then you might do something they don't already expect you to do!
* They would much rather hire someone who has collaborated with old famous people who write letters than someone who works on their own ideas.

I'm in a bad mood this week.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:44 AM
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523: Fuck. Me too. I feel very distinctly that I would be better off having written a dissertation about how Northrup Frye's 1957 treatment of "opsis" fails to account for scientific advancements in lenses during the early modern period. Everyone would nod and say, oh how interdisciplinary! and fresh! Take that, Northrup Frye!


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:48 AM
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(Sorry, that was my just-made-up example of the kind of sad, tired old dissertation that picks some half-century-old critical nit and calls itself brave.)


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:50 AM
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Quantum Opsis!

I feel a grant application coming on...


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:52 AM
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526: For real. I sort of feel bad posting that because definitely that has got to be someone's actual dissertation from 2010.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:53 AM
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Or maybe AWB and essear should collaborate on it.

Interdisciplinary!


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 10:54 AM
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We all took the test at work and our positions were displayed publicly on a 4x4 grid. Avowedly non-judgmental, and fortunately plenty of people like me. I don't think it was right in calling me intuitive, though.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 11:17 AM
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Things I have learned in the last three years about Java programming interviewers: Not a GD thing. There is absolutely no consistency. One style looks at your ten years of programming experience with Java and asks you really picky, beginner questions about things you may have learned way back in the intro to Java class and then have forgotten because they are NEVER used in the real world. Or, they ask about nit-picky syntactical things that the programming workbench spots and auto-corrects for you, so, again, they don't matter. This type smugly claims you do not know Java. Argh. Another type wants you to have been doing EXACTLY their job for the past 5 years, when no one, including the person they are replacing, has been doing that same job for the last 5 years. Argh again. Over 300 applications, about 30 interviews. Argh.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 11:18 AM
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I have tried taking MB tests and I get different results every time.

You have a great need for other people to like and admire you. You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage. While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them. Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You pride yourself as an independent thinker and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic. Security is one of your major goals in life.


Posted by: Bertram Forer | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 11:28 AM
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I'm a sucker for personality tests, and couldn't remember what my Myers-Briggs profile was. A test this evening shows INTP, but only slightly so on the T and the P, and a flat-out moderate/50-50 on the N. Utterly dependent on mood (I was being contrary in response to the foolishness of the questions). It is astonishing the extent to which one tailors one's responses according to the perceived outcome.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 6:47 PM
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532: I'm sure I can speak for Emerson and LB in saying we exile parsimon from our anti-Paris Hilton club to wherever she'd end up otherwise. I suppose you could be anti- anybody, really. Certainly me for ostracizing you.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 7:22 PM
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What? I'm anti-Paris Hilton all the way, but then who isn't?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 7:34 PM
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OK, I just took MB twice. First I answered the 2/3 or so of the questions I was pretty sure about. Then on the other questions I made the two tests mirror opposites, so if one test said Y the other would be N. Both gave me INTJ. Earlier I got INTP.

Both tests gave me strongly introverted. Both gave me weakly judging. Both tests gave me intuitive + thinking, but one gave both more strongly than the other. I'd say I'm a definite INTx.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 7:41 PM
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530: Tripp, it was that way a 100 years ago with FORTRAN. I used to make the hiring decisions based on the applicant's sense of humor.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 7:45 PM
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As an INTP I was the opposite of Sally Fields, Sarah Palin and Sally Struthers. Now as and INTJ I am the opposite of Presidents Clinton, Reagan and Paris Hilton. Among the INTPs are Thoreau, Einstein, and Ted Kaczynski. Among the INTJs are Hillary Clinton, Augustus Caesar, Ayn Rand, and Robespierre.

Sometimes it seems that they're trying to butter me up or something.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 7:57 PM
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Maybe you're leading your people out of Egypt. Maybe you want to deny the temptations of the Evil One. Who knows? You look down and see a burning bushsex, Leon.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:09 PM
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I'm anti-Paris Hilton all the way, but then who isn't?

Dsquared thinks she's quite the quick wit.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:12 PM
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If you want to become an Episcopal priest, you have to undergo a psychological examination are a very earnest, slim young gay man with a voice that tends to warble whenever you say the word "lord".


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:20 PM
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|| The movers just left and you all will be pleased to hear that they ran out of book boxes. |>


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:20 PM
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We accept you, we accept you, one of us, one of us!


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:23 PM
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531: I say! I mean, really, I say! What utter rot!


Posted by: Bertram Wooster | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:24 PM
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I'm boxing up and I've come to hate about a third of my library (the books I once thought I might read sometime). But I don't have the heart to dump them, so I'm going to leave them in storage for awhile while I build up my courage.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:28 PM
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"Now everybody has to name who they're the opposite of."

I'm the opposite of your mom.


Posted by: David The Unfogged Commenter | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:30 PM
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540: ain't that the truth.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:53 PM
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It was just a vague stereotype built up from pop culture impressions for me, and then I actually met one in person! He was just perfect.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 8:55 PM
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541: Why they were in the book boxes, we may never know...


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:19 PM
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Tripp, where are you located? You should send me your resume. Every couple months people ask me if I know anyone they could hire. The answer is, no, I don't know anyone. But if I had your resume, I could give it to them, and then they would stop bugging me.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-17-12 9:43 PM
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Meanwhile, back at the original subject, you can hate on my living room. Here's the view from the DeathCam this morning after I finally broke through the firewall, IP addresses, and ports insanities. It's a good thing LANs and the Internet are passing fancies.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/xqxYPCd_RdAIZADSHk9YYtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 10:03 AM
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When the big one hits, you'll want to have copious supplies of fresh water along with sophisticated nerf weaponry and trained teddy bears to defend it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 10:05 AM
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Those are full of fresh water? I'd assumed they were empty so that the urine archive could be started.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 10:09 AM
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That one picture on the left is crooked.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 10:13 AM
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551: Don't forget the lava lamp! (If I am interpreting that thing on the shelf correctly.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 10:14 AM
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Our living room is full of Danish furnishings to the extent that Legos count as furnishings.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 10:15 AM
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And is that a Poang just peeking in?

We redecorated last month. This is not a very interesting view of it.

(The Poang chair that was there has disappeared into Kid A's room.)


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 3:51 PM
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But the matching footstool is still visible.

That's me bottom left corner. My T-shirt says BARKSDALE ORGANIZATION.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 3:52 PM
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Thank God at least a few books appear.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 4:04 PM
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Yup, that's a Poäng. And a lava lamp and Technics turntable too. Except for the water bottles and Nerf gun, I can blame credit the DE for any and all decorating throughout the place. The water bottles were indeed accumulated in case there's a major quake, we used to put them out of sight but I don't bother now. The cats don't like the sound the Nerf gun makes but they do love chasing the disks around.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 4:10 PM
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558: And not just for decoration. Someone is READING at the right of the picture!


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 4:14 PM
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560: Well, holding a book in a "reading" position anyway. Is it actually being read? And if so, read with an appropriate level of understanding?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-18-12 9:12 PM
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