I remember you talking earlier about what tattoos you might get around the scars in lieu of implants. I think that is a great idea. If you can get something that looks awesome, you will feel totally comfortable in public and getting sexy in private looking totally awesome in an entirely new and different way.
There are two women I know very well who got mastectomies. One just completely doesn't give a shit; she stuffs a tube sock into her swimsuit that's always falling out in the water. The other one I think struggles with it more, and may well wish she'd gotten the reconstruction. Both are quite a bit older than you, and both have single mastectomies.
I still like the idea of tattoos, too, especially if I can get my mom to draw something for me.
In many ways, this decision seems like the same decision everyone makes constantly with growing older. There's no option that will make me look like I'm 20, but no one else has that option either. We all get old and saggy.
I guess tattoos of boobs with shading and whatnot would be boring, or insensitive, or sexist that I even mentioned them, or something like that.
Not getting reconstructive surgery sounds like a great idea -- when you mentioned it before, it made perfect sense to me. On the other hand, once you start talking about falsies, and how to make your swimsuit fit right, it sounds like an annoying hassle, where getting the surgery would solve it up front.
I guess where I come down is how do you envision your public, clothed, body: with breasts or without? If the idea is to go whole hog: "I have a flat chest, I don't pin falsies in my bra because there's no reason for me to wear a bra, I buy clothes that fit the shape of my body as it is, rather than buying clothes cut for breasts and adjusting myself to fit them," and so on, not getting the reconstructive surgery sounds like by far the better option.
If you're presenting publicly as having breasts, on the other hand, dealing with a stuffed bra and so on seems annoying and irritating.
7:H-G should also compare the expense of reconstructive surgery with the expense of new clothes, and count the difference as a pro or con.
...where getting the surgery would solve it up front.
I suppose you could find a surgeon willing to put them on the back, but then you'd really have trouble with clothes.
8: he does, but he hasn't offered up anything that would give me pause. The original decision was made before he and I ever started dating, so it's possible he's always considered it a fait accompli. But we've talked openly about it, and he's been clearly "Whatever you want is what I want" as opposed to having a physical preference.
I guess where I come down is how do you envision your public, clothed, body: with breasts or without?
For now, I imagine having falsies at school, and being flat at home and on weekends. Maybe as I get older and more matriarchal, I'd be bold enough to go flat at school, but right now it seems like I'd been self-conscious in front of the class, which would break my teacher concentration.
I buy clothes that fit the shape of my body as it is, rather than buying clothes cut for breasts and adjusting myself to fit them,
This might be impossible, especially when you're talking about slightly formal clothes. On the other hand, most of my wardrobe is sweaters or t-shirts already, and I like menswear.
H-G should also compare the expense of reconstructive surgery with the expense of new clothes, and count the difference as a pro or con.
I do love buying clothes!
For swimming, I really can't imagine caring. We're in the river constantly. I'm not sure I'd be bold enough to go topless in the park; maybe if I got tattoos that I was proud of. But I'd easily go just flat, in a tank top, and not care at all.
The surgeries totally gross me out, especially the one where they take fat from your belly or thighs or back.
A wife of a friend works for a plastic surgeon and IIRC those don't have near the track record or data that regular implant procedures do. If nothing else the implants are a known quantity as there's been millions of them done over the last couple decades.
I don't see any reason to get additional surgery that you don't want and don't have to get.
Also, I cannot fucking wait to go jogging without breasts. Or play soccer. That sounds so great.
I've been wondering what topic would finally prompt me to delurk, and it seems that this is it. I also have the BRCA mutation and recently had a mastectomy, and while I too was attracted by the badassery of flat chest and tattoos, I ended up having implants and they're much, much better than I had expected. If you're meeting with a plastic surgeon, ask about the nipple-sparing procedure: your breasts end up looking the same, except with a little scar on the under curve of each. And it really wasn't very painful or difficult at all (nothing like the mastectomies my female relatives had).
I don't know if this is relevant information for you (my apologies for the presumptuousness, if not), and I'm sure you'd also look and feel great in a tank top and tattoos.
If it's painful on top of it all, that seems to settle things. It's one thing to weigh pros and cons that are all basically insubstantial, but of one of the options hurts a lot more than the others....
It just seems to me that that's a heavy thumb on the scale.
19: I'd love to hear more about what went into your decision, and what your experience was like. I'm definitely in the "there's no wrong answer" camp, so don't worry about inadvertently offending me.
OT: Hey, it's Valentine's Day! I don't think I have to panic, but one never knows.*
* Adam Carolla said recently that "Valentine's Day for guys has become a roadside sobriety test. You can only fuck it up. Best case scenario is nothing happens."
20: See, that makes so much sense in this context, but not others - like childbirth - where I've opted for the more painful option (but not both times). In plenty of contexts, I'm of the opinion that pain can be withstood and it will pass, if there's a good reason on the other side.
Adam Carolla has probably slept with more on-duty cops than is good for him.
12 would kind of flip me toward the reconstruction -- if you weren't comfortable with the unreconstructed look in all the major facets of your week, maintaining falsies and such for work seems like a steady, minor, annoyance that I wouldn't want to cope with. (I'm not sure about clothes, but there are naturally flatchested women out there: they must be wearing something.)
But I have a very low daily-hassle tolerance: I can count the number of times I've worn lipstick in the last decade without needing to take my shoes off, and that's not principle or anything, just laziness. So it really may not be as much of an irritation as I'd think it would be.
18: Also, you could take up archery!
22: Jammies and I had been dating about two weeks before Valentine's day, and he dropped off some muffins and a cup of coffee at my apartment, on his way to work. It was perfectly low-key and sweet. You should have done that.
...or, maybe not so painful.
OTOH, flop-free running does seem like a huge attraction.
Is there really a pain difference? I thought reconstruction was literally done at the same time -- not an additional surgery, but another surgery while you were under for the mastectomy.
25.2: How many times have you needed to take your shoes off to wear lipstick?
(I'm not sure about clothes, but there are naturally flatchested women out there: they must be wearing something.)
But usually flat-chested women are skinnier than I am.
To your larger point, I think being flat-chested is something that I'd grow comfortable with over time. Or possibly not. The falsies-sewn-in-bras thing doesn't seem much different from wearing a bra in general, but maybe I'm missing something.
26: We live too far apart for that and our respective relationships with mornings are rather different, I think. I have a small but appropriate and amusing, non-imposing gift in mind, which I hope I can find this afternoon before we meet for chocolate.
The words "chill" and "blissful" aren't ones I've ever heard applied to Twisty before.
Is there really a pain difference? I thought reconstruction was literally done at the same time -- not an additional surgery, but another surgery while you were under for the mastectomy.
It's huge. According to the article that made a huge impressing on me, gradually inflating the implants over the next few months feels like your ribs are breaking.
But also I trust Mme. Merle's experience on this one, which contradicts. (Actually, it's probably something that varies hugely from person to person.)
I'm definitely in the "there's no wrong answer" camp
Well, that's a little late for poor old Ben Wright.
33: Why would they have to gradually inflate implants if they are the same size as the tissue removed? To be clear, I don't actually know anything about this topic, but maybe your article was about somebody who wanted to go from normal to Russ Meyer's leading lady.
A friend's wife is currently going through this situation. She had always been athletic and flat as a board. The doc convinced her to do very small implants. Bs? She is in a lot of pain due to the expanders ( Right term??).
29: Innumerable.
30: The falsies-sewn-in-bras thing doesn't seem much different from wearing a bra in general, but maybe I'm missing something.
This is my own neuroses, and not intended to be broadly applicable. But if I had a category of my life where I was uncomfortable with the way my body presented in other contexts (that sentence just broke down. I mean something like "I am socially uncomfortable unless my 'weekday teaching body' has breasts. My 'weekend swimming and sports body' doesn't have them and doesn't need them.") I would be neurotic and jumpy, on a minor level, about wardrobe malfunctions (padded bra shifting around oddly?) or getting caught by students/coworkers out of context.
I can count the number of times I've worn lipstick in the last decade without needing to take my shoes off,
I should think you wouldn't use your feet to put on lipstick.
I'm not sure about clothes, but there are naturally flatchested women out there: they must be wearing something.
They must be wearing something, but you're not sure it's clothes? What are the alternatives? Power armour? Body paint?
According to the article that made a huge impressing on me, gradually inflating the implants over the next few months feels like your ribs are breaking.
I didnt see this comment before my last post.
Yes. She is in a lot of pain. Her surgery was Jan 4th, and she still has the expanders in and isnt sleeping much.
Not to be a downer....
33: Oh, man, I had no idea it was serious additional pain on top of the mastectomy. Yeah, I'd skip it on that basis alone. Fuck that. (But, of course, what Mme. Merle said.)
Why would they have to gradually inflate implants
For weekday use. Then you deflate them at the weekend to play soccer.
Here's the old article that terrified me about the pain of the procedures.
yes to keeping things under consideration, but be very careful of doctors, who IMconsiderableandfamilialE are often in possession of much more in the way of strong social norms about other people's bodies, and somewhat less in the way of judgement. I hope your onco is one of the nice and considerate ones, but since we are in the Magic Internet Land Of Judging People On Absurdly Incomplete Information, I would suggest that her "insisting" that you meet someone might be a bit of a red flag.
we meet for chocolate
On Valentine's Day. Mmm hmmm . . .
I suppose you could find a surgeon willing to put them on the back, but then you'd really have trouble with clothes.
But it sure would make slow dancing awesome. I don't know much of anything about implants so this might be 100% wrong, but I figured the pain would come from breast enlargements stretching the skin, not from filling space that already existed.
And that the implants go under the muscle.
44: I had the same thought, a bit. You sound as if you have your heels dug well in, but medical care is an area where it's easy to get nudged down a slippery slope to whatever your doctor thinks is the best idea.
21: Since I knew that the mastectomy would leave me with no sensation in my breasts, I presumed that reconstruction would be something I'd be doing solely to ensure that the world could look at me and see a woman with, check, two breasts. And even though I'm thoroughly conventional in my appearance, that really troubled me.
But the nipple-sparing procedure, by preserving the appearance of my breasts, made me realize that I still enjoy their appearance as much as I enjoyed their sensation. So in the end, and I realize this sounds totally implausible, I don't feel like I've lost my breasts. (If my nipples had been removed, I'd feel as if I had).
And on a totally technical note of interest to no one but Heebie and me: there had been a lot of concern about whether the nipple-sparing surgery is appropriate for BRCA positive women, but Sloan Kettering and, last year, the more conservative Dana Farber now do them, which made me worry less about the decision.
46 posted before seeing 43. At a glance, the women in the article complaining of pain were sizing up, weren't they?
One has heard, from primary sources, that the pain of breast implant surgery is rather worse than doctors like to tell women considering the procedure.
Pain is weakness leaving saline entering the body.
33: Oh yeah, I read that article too, and . . . I believe that it was very painful for her, but I really can't imagine why. I'm a total coward about pain (I need novacaine when they clean my teeth), and the inflation of the implants just did not hurt. Maybe I took an Advil once?
53: None of them evinced regret about the procedures, but if one were to be honest one would have to admit that one has met rather a lot of very determined women.
And on a totally technical note of interest to no one but Heebie and me: there had been a lot of concern about whether the nipple-sparing surgery is appropriate for BRCA positive women, but Sloan Kettering and, last year, the more conservative Dana Farber now do them, which made me worry less about the decision.
That is useful to know. It's very hard to find BRCA-specific information at times.
Also it's very different - imo - to know and plan and anticipate a mastectomy, compared with making the decision in the midst of cancer treatment. It sounds like yours was prophylactic as well?
40: I'm sorry, Will; I posted with seeing this. I hope I didn't seem to be dismissing your friend's experience. And I'm now thinking that reconstruction is maybe a big crapshoot of pain, which is definitely one for the minus column.
Wait, implants go under the muscle? Why? Doesn't that fuck up muscle function?
58: I think placement varies, but I decided that I didn't want to have too many pictures of breasts on my monitor in case somebody walked by so I closed the Wikipedia page.
58: http://www.advanced-art.com/Breast-Aug-Over-Under.htm
58: Better shape and placement. Over-the-muscle implants are very, very obvious and fake-looking.
I hear.
It would take some readjustment to get myself in mind for reconstructive surgery. I'm just so used to assuming I wouldn't.
But suppose it has become such a standard procedure that I'm basically doing the equivalent of refusing to replace my front teeth - then am I just like Apo, refusing to get a cell phone?
Forget GPS! Can you get implants with lasers?
That seems like an easy modification to the nipple laser beam guns.
||
If a student evaluation just says "Helpy-chalk is a beast' is that good or bad?
|>
Wait, implants go under the muscle? Why?
So you can squeeze your own boobs, obvs.
What about ones that light up, or change color based on your mood?
But suppose it has become such a standard procedure that I'm basically doing the equivalent of refusing to replace my front teeth - then am I just like Apo, refusing to get a cell phone?
No.
What about ones that light up, or change color based on your mood?
Well, some guys got it, some guys don't.
66: They clearly meant breast. It's a typo.
The thing I want to know is why the pain associated with some implants isn't treated with appropriate meds. There's no reason to suffer serious pain as far as I can see - it's a transient things, not nerve related, and could be handled by popping pills until things settled down.
To expand a bit, I'd view it as being more like choosing not to dye your hair, or, more extremely, not to get a face lift (or not wearing a toupee). Unless it's fundamental to your self-conception, it's something you're doing wholly for the benefit of others who, frankly, need to accept whatever you present.
People who haven't known you will never notice the absence of breasts - nobody's born without front teeth, but plenty of women - even non-skinny ones - are flat-chested. So you're not confronting people with your refusal to cater to societal expectations. You just look different than you used to.
I know that you're basically already of this opinion; I just want to reinforce that society has no right to expect you to do this (painful) thing.
Most toupees would look more natural if they were attached to the chest.
Add another anecdote to the reconstruction-is-terribly-painful pile. My mom's cancer buddy just finished with it, and regretted it due to the terrible pain. She's quite a bit older though, and convinced that her skin just didn't have enough elasticity for what they were trying to do.
If you're going to have reconstructive surgery, it's best to do it at the time of mastectomy. You don't want to try out being flat for awhile, and assume you can change your mind.
This is incorrect. Be back after an annoying conference call/sales pitch.
From what I understand, the flat chestedness post-mastectomy is much more radically flat than just naturally having very small boobs. I'm sure the noticeabity depends largely on what you wear, but it's not like just being naturally small.
78 is my belief, too. That it would slightly make strangers do a double-take.
I've been considering getting surgery for this. Mine are not horribly pronounced, but they are noticeable, and they create a problem when running or even brisk walking. Don't worry, I've never used steroids, but I have gained weight and most recently lost it, and some men swell during the weight gain and then can't spot-reduce them back to a normal size. I figure it wouldn't hurt to bring it up with my Dr and see what the cost is. I dunno. There are other things* I could use the money on, but I am paying all my bills, even the student loans for my kids which my ex-wife said she'd help with but now says she can't cover. It's a tough decision to make.
*An Electric motorcycle topping the list.
One thing it raises is that people are obsessed with determining if someone actually has boy plumbing or girl plumbing, especially if they are androgynous. I would not like to be subject to that constantly.
I'm pretty sure my overall person is female enough - I'm short and soft - that I'd look like a woman with a mastectomy, and not someone to whisper hugely about in the grocery store. But maybe I'm wrong about that.
(I know I'd get whispers if I went topless or in a tank top at the river. But it's different if I can't escape the whispers.)
78, 79: Yeah, I think you're right about that - I mean, most men have at least some extra flesh in the nipular region.
I dunno, though. If/when skipping reconstruction becomes a more common option, people will just get used to seeing it sometimes.
If only there were some sort of well-funded, well-regarded entity that could move the dial on acceptance of this choice.
81: What's the upper lip situation for women in your family?
Over-the-muscle implants are very, very obvious and fake-looking.
Only when you're undressed, though (and assuming you've not gone for gonzoporn hydraulic-lift megaboobs), so grade that disadvantage accordingly for somebody in a stable marriage.
56: Yes, mine was prophylatic; and yes, that makes a huge difference. Not only psychologically, but also physically. Chemotherapy can really damage your nerves, and radiation invariably damages the skin, so that might explain why some women experience a lot of pain. (I'm sorry that I hadn't thought of that earlier).
But I don't want to keep bringing the conversation back to BRCA particulars when the general questions that Heebie raises are more interesting. Heebie, if you'd like to talk more about this, I'd be happy to email with you privately.
Also, I'll also get an oophorectomy (ovaries-ectomy), and so be in menopause, so the upper lip situation could change. There are lots of unknowns.
OT bleg. I don't want to disrupt the conversation about heebie's breast options, but I'm in the grips of a horrible stomach bug. Right now is one of thenlucid times when typing doesn't seem to require too much effort, so here I am. I'm sipping water every time my mouth feels dry, since doing more is asking for trouble. I'm not dehydrated since my skin still has elasticity.
I've asked Lee to get me broth, Gatorade, and ginger ale for when I'm ready for those. Since I know my brain is clouded, am I forgetting anything? We have some sort of jello, aplesauce, and crackers.
Again, sorry for the interruption!
. Heebie, if you'd like to talk more about this, I'd be happy to email with you privately.
Yes, that'd be great. Heebie dot geebie at gmail.
We were always given flat 7-up or Sprite. I have no idea why.
Gatorade is probably the best, unless you want to down some pedialyte.
91: Saltines. Ginger ale and saltines does it for me.
96. Yes. Something salty as soon as you can bear it.
The BRAT stuff that they recommend for kids? Bananas, rice, and I forget?
66: it is good, unless they're referring to old-timey Britishisms.
When I'm coming out of stomach ailments, I always start craving sweet fruits, melons and grapes especially.
98: Applesauce and toast. I'm allergic to bananas, but I'll make sure we have bread. Thanks, all. And popsicles sound amazing right about now.
When I'm coming off a stomach problem, fruit is the last thing I want. Well, the last thing I want of the things that I normally eat without being guilted into it.
Whichever liquids you can take, Thorn, regularly and in some volume: dehydration is a real danger.
Dehydration, communism, and being hurt by yogs.
Dehydration and communism.
Godless communism.
On the TV, Jamie Lee told me that yoghurt would help me shit better, if I were a woman. These blueberry muffins have been working fine so far.
Dehydration, communism, and a fanatical devotion to the pope.
98: Oof, sorry to hear it. When I last had a nasty stomach bug my mistake was in thinking I was hungry and ready to eat food (jello! not even real food!) when in fact my stomach was just still hurting. So, when you do turn the corner, take it slow. Lots of gatorade, and popsicles are good.
114 to 91. You knew what I meant.
Kraab, don't be dissuaded from finishing your earlier thought when you're off the phone. I'm still curious about that.
I personally worry about impaired muscle function; I was in a dragonboat race against a team of post-mastectomy women (we lost) & from what I understood of their jokes and slogans, the less reconstruction the better. There were more than n=30 of them, too! That, and reading that implants make it harder to diagnose cancer should it recur, and that great poster of the tree tattoo, have made me assume I wouldn't reconstruct. (Don't know my gene-marker status; have recurrent creepy symptom & periodic fire-drill.)
I guess I would talk to a plastic surgeon and also post-mastectomy athletes and also people who do non-surgical padding. Lots of seamstresses have experience with it. Oo, for that matter, lissom young men in SF wear very convincing breasts that stay on through a samba.
115, 117: It isn't a true competition if "artistic presentation" is a factor. Stupid Russian judges.
I think T is toast.
Turducken. So your stomach knows you're not fucking around.
I'm pretty sure my overall person is female enough - I'm short and soft - that I'd look like a woman with a mastectomy, and not someone to whisper hugely about in the grocery store. But maybe I'm wrong about that.
Hard to tell. I have talked about my androgynous period in college (short hair, tallish, skinny, mannish clothes in a not obviously fashiony kind of way), and people really did get my gender wrong fairly often. If there are enough puzzling cues to throw people off, there's a good chance you'll notice them noticing.
But it's different at your age: I think when I was confusing people, they thought I was a fifteen/seventeen year-old boy. With enough actual adult age cues, people might not be so easily puzzled.
I think the real issue here is tattoo design.
I also think you should get something very traditional for tattoos. Something a biker would have. Don't try to be clever or ironic.
I'm also thinking ornate colorful, and not at all shaped like boobs. Straight lines that cut across the shape of what used to be there. Maybe a Chinese dragon, but not curled into breast-y shapes.
This might also be a good place for Jammies to have input and still play the role of Supportive Husband.
Lasers seem sort of gimmicky, and would probably be too expensive anyway (and not covered by insurance). But switchblades that sprang out when you gave your breasts a squeeze in just the right spot would be so badass.
The design I came up with in my 20s was to have 4-5 roly-poly kittens tumbling and chasing each other in a ring around me.
It's terribly twee and precious, I know, but I'm such a wanna-be hipster already.
But switchblades that sprang out when you gave your breasts a squeeze in just the right spot would be so badass.
What about a utility tool? There could be a comb, some tweezers, a tooth pick that always gets lost...
Whatever. As long as your nipples can actually cut glass.
The iconic mastectomy scar tattoo photo.
Lasers seem sort of gimmicky, and would probably be too expensive anyway (and not covered by insurance). But switchblades that sprang out when you gave your breasts a squeeze in just the right spot would be so badass.
And required in 40 states to be covered by insurance.
132: You'd want to sleep in a Kevlar vest to avoid accidental injuries.
You know those tock-tock percussion instruments, with the wooden mallet inside a cup? Maybe two of those?
With the right gong, I'd sound like the beginning of a Pink Floyd song.
136: If the zombies come, you'll have trouble hiding.
You should get two tattoos of the chinese character for breast. Unfortunately it's not that interesting-looking (δΉ³). I was going to get a tattoo of "hair" on my bald spot, but I'll let you steal my idea.
34 is not a bad idea. But I'd worry about not being able to keep them quiet when you wanted to (except by holding still). Maybe something like a bike horn would be better?
Regardless, I definitely do think you should use the opportunity to think more broadly about the question: what could be attached to my chest that would be more useful than ordinary breasts? "Cool tattoos" are an okay starting point for this brainstorming session, but surely we can come up with something better than that.
What about those little puff canister air fresheners?
"Dispensers" is certainly on the right track. Maybe a spool mechanism, which can house anything from toilet paper to rolls of cloth to rolls of regular paper.
Flash drive, whiskey reserve, webcams, smoke bombs: the possibilities are endless.
I'm trying to stick with things you wouldn't feel self-conscious about, obviously. I mean, I assume something like a built-in bookrest would be great, but that would probably draw unwatned attention.
If you're going to have reconstructive surgery, it's best to do it at the time of mastectomy.
Sez who?
Most women don't have immediate reconstruction.
It means a longer surgery and longer recovery time.
It won't necessarily get all your surgery out of the way at once. Reconstruction may require going back a few times to get the aesthetic results you want.
You'll want to use the absolute best surgeons you can find and that your insurance will pay for. There's no reason to assume that both the breast surgeon and the plastic surgeon you want will have privileges at the same hospital or be available on the same day.
Any complications from the mastectomy can interfere with the reconstruction. Even if you want immediate reconstruction, you have to be prepared to wake up without it.
You don't want to try out being flat for awhile, and assume you can change your mind.
I'm not sure what you're basing this on. You can always change your mind. As surgical procedures go, reconstruction isn't that difficult.
It does require, though, from my perspective, a ton of research to decide on exactly what kind of reconstruction and to find a plastic surgeon whom you trust. (For someone getting surgery after a diagnosis rather than prophylactically, I'd say this goes double. There's enough to wrap your head around already.)
I'd say if you're considering not having reconstruction, then you should wait and see how you feel after the mastectomies.
Back on tattoos: maybe two round circles, and in each a careful still life drawing, or drawing of people going about daily life.
Whoopie cushions would be hilarious at first, but I worry that the gag might grow old after a while.
To the OP: ms bill had a masectomy to remove breast cancer quite a while ago (about five years before we had kids, come to think of it) and had very limited reconstructive surgery. The docs wanted to do more, but she basically got tired of surgeries. She has some scars, but looks beautiful with or without clothes on and (worth noting on Valentines Day) is still the most attractive person I've ever met.
Sez who? Most women don't have immediate reconstruction. It means a longer surgery and longer recovery time.
The oncologist said that you want to use the skin while it is still breast-shaped. Not that it's impossible later, but it gets harder to make it look normal.
had very limited reconstructive surgery.
What does this mean, if you don't mind me asking?
The doctor asked that I agree to at least meet with the plastic surgeon. (Sure, why not.)
Wanted to second 44 and 48. I had a brief encounter with conventional medicine this last year and could not fucking believe how fast I nearly got whisked into surgery. Like, a possible diagnosis and the very next person to talk to was the surgeon with her date book open. It has taken me a lot of doing to get out of the surgeon's schedule and care. I basically just started cancelling all appointments with her two days in advance. If you know your mind is against plastic surgery, don't even meet the surgeon.
It sounds like you are more openminded than I am, so she may have good information for you. But if don't want it, it is easier not to start.
150: I wouldn't rely on an oncologist for this. I'd get 2nd and 3rd, opinions from plastic surgeons on whether, when, and what kind.
The docs inserted an implant that was designed to stretch the skin in preparation for a larger implant. She had lost significant weight during the cancer treatment so it turned out to be an OK match - so when the docs wanted to fiddle around more with a larger implant and cosmetic surgery on the surface, she declined. She considered having the implant removed too, but decided against it.
Megan, I hope everything's ok with whatever your possible diagnosis was.
When I had a GI infection I was told to match the consistency of what I consumed to the consistency of my output. So no toast until things started, you know, firming up.
I don't know how I'd feel if I were actually making this decision, but I think I'd prefer to go with no implants, lots of really pretty tattoos instead.
maybe two round circles, and in each a careful still life drawing, or drawing of people going about daily life.
One could feature a city with marriages and feastings, and maybe a court at litigation, while the other features a city besieged. (Cf.)
Neb, if you're shitting toast, you might want to go back to the doctor.
Thank you, mineshaft. I am drinking real water now, not just sips, andmwas reminded to tell Lee that Vernors is the optimal sicktime ginger ale.
On the downside, I just had a dream in which whackjob comics artist Frank Miller was trying to convince people to enroll in hismcharter school. All I remember about this is getting more and more angry when he kept saying "lids" for "grids" and when I woke up my heart was racing because of it, though my pillow was still there.
153, 150: I wouldn't rely on an oncologist for this. I'd get 2nd and 3rd, opinions from plastic surgeons on whether, when, and what kind.
A thousand times yes.
One of my best friends just finished treatment for breast cancer (at 31....eesh....). Only one breast was cancerous, but she had them both removed, and then started reconstruction on the non-cancerous side before radiation and the cancerous side after radiation. It sounded like the radiated side was a little more painful to expand, but overall she said the reconstruction process wasn't too bad, and her recovery has been relatively short.
Obviously Heebie should do whatever is best for her. Anecdotally, however, I can say that my mother is naturally very flat-chested (42 AA) and she has a very hard time finding tops that fit.
Couldn't heebie do, like, a ton of push-ups?
I obviously don't have anything helpful to say, but I did want to mention that I find the matter-of-fact way heebie is dealing with this to be impressive.
Thanks, Eggo. I do think it's way different when you have all the time in the world to muse about it, rather than being mid-cancer-treatment.
Last year I was convinced that I would have to be making this decision (I felt, like, positive that I would have the BRCA gene because of family history and stuff--but guess what! I don't have it!) and had it all sorted out in my mind. Now, of course, it's moot, but I still feel strongly that if that choice comes to me (and it still may--I could still get cancer just like everyone else), I would not get reconstruction. Twisty was very influential for me, too. And my husband, who was adamant that I not factor in his potential "enjoyment" as a reason to get reconstruction, which is a painful extra surgery that is essentially unnecessary. I actually think he was more against it than I was.
Here's how I thought of it. It seemed a lot to go through mostly for other people's comfort. My comfort would be affected to, but looking back on my life, I realized that my self-image adapts to be basically comfortable with my body as is. Yes, shopping would be a pain, but shopping is already a pain (for me, anyway). Not having to worry about bras, swimsuits, and having every single shirt I buy be majorly cleavagey sounded like a nice difference. Sure, there would be downsides, but I decided that considering all the pros and cons, I would rather just go with no implants and no more pain. Double mastectomy is already freaky enough as it is. I don't think wanting to minimize invasive and painful surgery to your body is a bad reason for deciding against reconstruction. Especially when it is not remotely medically necessary.
I thought about it a lot. Would my self-image change? Yes. But maybe for the better! Who knows! Would I sometimes miss the sort of "feminine" feeling associated with having big boobs? Probably. But breasts are also a major pain.
On the downside, I just had a dream in which whackjob comics artist Frank Miller was trying to convince people to enroll in hismcharter school. All I remember about this is getting more and more angry when he kept saying "lids" for "grids" and when I woke up my heart was racing because of it, though my pillow was still there.
This made me check to see if Miller really was opening up a charter school, which would be hilarious and horrifying in almost equal measure. What a fantastically crazy dream! Thanks for sharing!
I'd enroll in Frank the Tank's charter school like a shot. We could sit around wearing trench coats and fedoras, drawing sexy dames, lantern-jawed lunks beating the daylights out of short fat people, complaining about kids today and the critical reception of The Spirit, etc., etc.
Thanks, Sir Kraab. Things appear to be fine. Which makes me even more skeptical about the initial rush to surgery.
My impression was that the doctors and I held reversed versions of the precautionary principle.
Doctors: It might be bad! Have surgery to find out!
Me: Surgery is bad! Must find out first if it is bad!
Anyway, they're a bunch of slash-happy ghouls, so don't go near them unless you know you want or need them. That was my take-away.
It would be The Citadel meets the Suspiria dance academy. Oof.
I'm trying to imagine enrolling like a shot.
171: Were it not for the pre-existing spouses, I would ask you to marry me.
pre-existing spouses
Hey, wait. Shouldn't ObamaCare have eliminated this obstacle already, or is that one of those bits that won't get phased in until 2014?
OT: There's going to be a sequel to Taken? With Liam Neeson killing and torturing more dirty foreigners ungallant miscreants? Hell yes I'd like a link to the ticket preorder page on Fandango. Thanks, Harry Knowles, you grotesquely unsightly nerd who degrades both cinema and its muses by your filthy attention!
Elective amputation strikes me as bolder than a Dick Cheney opening move. If you've still got another decade, diagnosus tools and targeted early treatment (thanks Kormen foundation ?) might be better able to determine it such drastic surgery is then really necessary.
170: Docs being slash-happy or not, hospitals are bad places in which to have one's insides open to the outside. The bugs have been reading Darwin with full comprehension.
170 is consistent with my experience and anecdata from my friends who are doctors, but this comment is mostly to show appreciation for the turn of phrase "slash-happy ghouls."
177: Trust me, heebie's done the research. The BRCA mutation is bad fucking news.
hospitals are bad places in which to have one's insides open to the outside
I understand the sense in which this is true, but, at the same time, I'm having a hard time thinking of any other place I'd prefer to be with my insides were open to the outside. I think 'hospital'
sounds pretty good, all things considered.
If I were wealthy enough to pay surgeons to make house calls, that might be different.
I personally worry about impaired muscle function
Doesn't seem to be any shortage of implants in the "fitness competition" circuit. Not that that's anyone's aspiration but implants don't seem to be stopping them from doing a bunch of one handed pushups and other gymnastic stuff the rest of us are too weak to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsSas5fNt-k
182: I use a mirror, X-Acto knives, a Dremel, and gunpowder as a disinfectant. No problems with nosocomial infections, and better food.
Wh-wh-what is the Dremel for? No, don't tell me.
Grinding the edge off the Exacto knife? It's not a challenge if it's too sharp.
I assume if he had a bone saw around, he wouldn't need the Dremel.
a bunch of slash-happy ghouls
If you have good insurance, then this is a fee-for-service reality.
||
Just got accused of corruption in a phone conference with the court -- one party accused the state (c'est moi) of entering into a corrupt bargain with another party as a result of political influence. No big deal -- the court blew it off, it was made in passing by a fairly off-the-wall sounding attorney -- but the funny bit was that the other party called me after the conference was over to assure me that it wasn't true. Of course I know it's not true: if it were true I'd be one of the parties to the corrupt bargain.
|>
55: Now I picture you as Little Edie Beale. Even though I have met you.
190: Maybe they were afraid you'd call and ask for your cut.
Yeah, I think the guy just got confused -- he knew he'd been called a crook, and didn't think through that if he were a crook, I'd have to be a crook as well.
Just in case you should see if any of your co-workers just bought something not too modest in the Hamptons.
Mme. Merle, I was being self-absorbed above and didn't say how interesting it was to hear about your experience. I hope you stick around for other topics too.
(And now it's naptimemagain, until my popsicles get here. I think I'm ready to move slowly from water to other liquids.)
Heebz, you have to magically make people de-lurk more often!
I wonder what became of the decidedly relurked Dona Quixote.
I wonder what became of the decidedly relurked Dona Quixote.
I was recently wondering the same thing. Come back, DQ!
this comment is mostly to show appreciation for the turn of phrase "slash-happy ghouls."
Our oncologist, who was decidely not slash-happy, explained this general phenomenon by saying that "surgeons like to surge," meaning that their way of solving a health problem (he never really used the terms "heal" or "healing") is to cut it off or sew it up.
The aphorism I've heard is "A chance to cut is a chance to cure." And, on a slightly different point, "Never let the skin stand between you and a diagnosis."
Wasn't the whole point of the Hippocratic Oath to discourage doctors from being "slash-happy"? Yes, we have antibiotics and anticeptics today, but we also have drug-resistant staph.
the Hippocratic Oath has no legal standing, it turns out.
A hippopotamus stands wherever it wants to
"Never let the skin stand between you and a diagnosis."
Somehow this makes it seem more lust-y. "Man, I'd really like to see her spleen!" "I just wanna open him up and play with his intestine!"
At someone's link above, where they're giving pros and cons of going over, partly under, or under the breast, they keep talking about textured implants, as in "This method will keep the skin very smooth and not dimpled! (Unless the implant is textured, of course.)" I assume textured implants figure into the sex play in 203.
One other point in favor of forgoing reconstructive surgery is that you could get tattoos on your breasts right now without even worrying about whether you'll be tired of the design in 30 years. Then the surgery could be part medical procedure and part free tattoo removal.
200: Yeah, but (as I first heard it) "Cutters like to cut" is just another version of "If the only tool you have is..."
There's also the factor of the personality type who becomes a surgeon.They tend towards aggressively confident, and they have to be, they need to be able to keep going no matter how complicated things might become in the OR. That said, they also tend towards flying their private planes into the ground 'cause they think they can handle bad weather.
I cried because I had no private plane until I saw a surgeon who had no ground clearance.
If it's not too creepy for a lurker to say, I really miss Dona Quixote, too!
(And thanks, Thorn, that's very kind of you).
@66
I once got an evaluation that said, in answer to the question "what most enhanced your learning", "BEAST MODE"
I still am not sure what that means.
198: A serger is a machine that both cuts off & sews together .
207: A friend of mine sold his plane to a surgeon, who killed himself and his wife in said plane less than a year later. "Pilot error" is a hell of an epitaph for a pilot.
212: There are probably later stats but if you google occupation general aviation accidents you will quickly find the old FAA paper i remembered showing physicians had the highest accident rates of all pilots. It goes with the territory, no one at the med center was at all surprised when that paper came out.
The Beechcraft Bonanza was known as the doctor killer - high performance at 70s-medic prices, kinky V-tail handling characteristics, surgical confidence, a lot of accidents.
I am hoping that the occupation with the lowest accident rate was "professional pilot". If not, then I have a radical safety proposal for British Airways.
213: I've read that. I wonder whether finance sector types have overtaken physicians yet and, if not, what the trend is.
216: "I wonder whether finance sector types have overtaken physicians yet"
...due to aggrieved shareholders with DShKM .51 calibre machine guns?
169: I don't think headmaster miller's school would be quite as welcome a place to those of the fair sex. what with all the insane macho insecure sexism and all. I'm cool with the "punch everything in the face" approach to life, but...
194: if any of anyone's colleagues need a place in the hamptons to park their ill-gotten gains, may I suggest a little place on goose creek in wainscott? it would be greatly appreciated.
in re: boobies, I think heebie's ideas are cool. I myself would want reconstructive surgery, and have in fact considered having the "mommy" surgery in which you get a tummy tuck and bigger boobs at the same time. there are hotel/spa-type places in bangkok in which you get to recover in luxury while they hand out painkillers and nutritious smoothies and the like. of course, my head would have to stop hurting before I could ever go anywhere or do anything. I have read too many words and now must retire to the darkness. mmmm, precious words. it seems impossible that my head should be able to hurt with all this damn medicine. I have only myself to blame in looking at the internet, I suppose. but it hurt anyway! not all day. I had a few precious hours and even a visitor. tiring but pleasant to see other humans.
it seems impossible that my head should be able to hurt with all this damn medicine. I have only myself to blame in looking at the internet, I suppose.
You need to hire Soterios Johnson to read out the Internet to you in a deep, soothing voice, and take down your dictated replies.
