Re: Charles Murray is being sensible

1

Christ, what an asshole.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 8-12 10:04 PM
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Batali got his start in New Brunswick, working at a restaurant near the Rutgers campus that caters largely to students. Presumably they paid him.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 8-12 10:18 PM
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3

The '70s?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 8-12 10:52 PM
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My old clinical supervisor had an office in the Village near Babbo and said she would see MB out on the street smoking. Partly in jest and partly not, I think, she had diagnosed him at fifty paces. "Total borderline," she said. "I'm sure of it."


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03- 8-12 11:07 PM
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5

I'm now skeptical that he's ever been to Italy.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 2:19 AM
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6

Try to have some sympathy, reprobates: the man is sad that he cant make cock jokes. No perspective.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:44 AM
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The African immigrants in Italy, maybe?


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 3:45 AM
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8

People are so lazy these days! I don't understand why strangers don't want to come over and clean my house for free! Back in my day people cleaned houses for free! (Mostly my mom!) Now I have to clean my own house, because no one is willing to take a crosstown bus to clean my house out of the pure love of cleaning house and the off chance that I might hire them for a minimum wage job!


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 5:46 AM
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the off chance that I might hire them for a minimum wage job!

You liberals so love to discount people's potential, Maybe they'd find they have a flair for organizational and people skills and could personally build up a large organization which collected fees for matching free cleaners with customers. Maybe they'd call it Shamway.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:04 AM
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10

Chefs are prone to being full of shit at the best of times, tbh.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:04 AM
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nosfloW-sœur excepted.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:05 AM
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I think it's compensation for having to wear a silly hat and worry about sauces and garnishes all day; you end up trying to talk like a combination of a 1980s bond trader and GSGT Hartman, just to make up for it. Look at Anthony Bourdain. I'm sure he has some worthwhile things to say about food, but good grief is he trying hard to be PURE DEAD MENTAL.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:23 AM
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There's a tax preparation service here called Liberty which operates in poorer neighborhoods. They get their employees to stand on the street soliciting business wearing statue of liberty costumes. I don't think they make as much as chefs, though obviously they are paid--not enough to make me want it.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:57 AM
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I've not told the story about Marco Pierre White have I? As a young man he was cheffing in a restaurant in my home town, owned by a part-Greek lady who kept the local scandal mill going by keeping her ex-naval officer husband practically chained to a radiator, generally being a professional bitch, and bulk buying wine from KwikSave but that's another story.

Him being him, and her being her, their relationship deteriorated fast (between the lines, it may have been more of a relationship, if you see what I mean) and things got unpleasant when he decided that the ventilation in the kitchens was insufficient. After much rowing back and forward he literally climbed up on a chair and punched the ceiling until the plaster cracked and he could tear out a hole in it.

...and not much later he was off to London to seek his fortune, like a stroppy Dick Whittington with a chip on his shoulder instead of the cat.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 6:58 AM
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If I tried to put a chip on my cat she would eat it. She eats everything.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:05 AM
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There's a tax preparation service here called Liberty which operates in poorer neighborhoods.

Liberty operates around here too. They station people all around the major roads near my campus. I've decided to smile and wave whenever I see one.

The people they have on the street are incredibly enthusiastic all day long, which I think must mean their boss drives by to check on them at random intervals.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:06 AM
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Obviously Mario Batali is a douche for mocking people who don't want to work for free. But I do see a point there, which is that someone who is going to end up as a successful chef is probably someone for whom it's more than a job, who spends his free time thinking about being a chef, wants to be in the kitchen as much as possible whether he's getting paid or not. Like being an artist.

Scientists are prone to the same Batali-like behavior. No, you aren't supervising a crowd of people who are as obsessive about science as you are. If you were it would be tragic because you are training five or ten people for every potential job as an independent researcher like you. We find it interesting but for most of us it isn't ALL WE THINK ABOUT.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:08 AM
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Like being an artist.

Yes, people often try to get them to work for free, too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:13 AM
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16: We place a lot of our clients there, because they're not too picky. They usually have social security, so it's extra cash for them, and they just want extra cash. Bell ringing for the Salvation army is popular too, but that pays better.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:21 AM
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18: says Halford.


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:35 AM
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21

||

John Yoo actually got an op-ed in the NY Times along with John Bolton. I don't know enough about international law to know whether he's making sense, but of course I doubt it. I do find it a little sketchy that so few international agreements are ratified by the Senate.

Sorry for not linking, but I am not good at cutting and pasting URLs on an iphone. The piece was called "Hands off the Heavrns."


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:40 AM
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I've not told the story about Marco Pierre White have I?

Marco Pierre White is the person Batali is talking about in the (not included) beginning to the last quotation.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 7:51 AM
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20: hah! I was thinking this, but hah. [ Pedantic boringing omitted ]


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:02 AM
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24

We're talking about the Mario Batali that just agreed to a $5 million settlement for skimming tips, right?

Comity with 1: Christ, what an asshole.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 8:41 AM
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24: linked in the post!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 9:16 AM
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Yeah, the Murray piece isn't bad, except to the extent that it implies other ideas for combating castification are useless, and elaborating on the noted in OP.1, the wonderful chipping-away at the FLSA he proposes:

If you are not a religious organization and have more than 10 employees, the minimum wage law should apply to anyone who shows up for work every day.

Because the board of Catholic Healthcare West has strongly-held positions about the immorality of the minimum wage, I assume. (And where the fuck did "more than 10 employees" come from?)


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 03- 9-12 9:30 AM
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Charles Murray mostly manages to make sense, but you can tell he's still an ass. The Not-an-Ass Charles Murray shall be know because lo, he shall have actually gotten over standard Sixties-era white working class shibboleths like don't give my money to niggers "we should have socioeconomic affirmative action." (Analyzing white America in isolation of course insulates him from all the reasons this argument is nonsense.)


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 9:15 AM
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27

... "we should have socioeconomic affirmative action." (Analyzing white America in isolation of course insulates him from all the reasons this argument is nonsense.)

Socioeconomic affirmative action is nonsense by itself or just when advocated as a replacement for (rather than an addition to) race based affirmative action?


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 9:37 AM
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27: I'd appreciate an elaboration of that too. I mean, I think that a poor white kid from Appalachia should be held to somewhat different standards than somebody fro a $300K per year family in Westchester. You could have both, no?


Posted by: Bosoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 10:03 AM
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28-29: All of the concerns that affect the white American working class that Charles Murray focuses on affect the African-American populace far more heavily, from broken homes to economic and educational disadvantage to economically barren communities. (That there now exists a very small black middle and even smaller black upper-middle-class -- which produced showpieces like Obama and Bill Cosby -- is a distraction from the overall picture.) The whole "we don't need affirmative action now in 2012" bit is a transparent lie about the supposedly level status of the playing field. That there should be programs for the white working class is evident, but the notion that this must replace, displace or eliminate affirmative action -- which if anything should be strengthened -- is nonsensical and false.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 03-10-12 11:12 AM
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the supposedly level status of the playing field.

Meaning the working-class playing field, of course.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 03-11-12 12:23 AM
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30

I am not a fan of affirmative action in general but I don't see much case for replacing its current form with affirmative action based on class as I am having trouble coming up with reasonable arguments for class based affirmative action that don't also apply to race based affirmative action. In the linked article Murray clearly calls for "replac[ing]" ethnic based affirmative action with socioeconomic affirmative action. So I think he is wrong and wonder if he is being disengenuous. Although since he claims this is a "nobrainer" perhaps he didn't actually think about it.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 03-11-12 6:35 AM
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