I'm off to eat beets and asparagus for lunch. Just to see what effect the combo has.
So I want to know about this grass thing. What are they supposed to eat? How do you stop them?
If they're working hard, you're supposed to give them oats.
3: Oats and other unsweetened grains. You can put a muzzle on them (which restricts without completely vitiating their ability to eat grass). You can also limit their time spent in the pasture and make Halford stand out in the field extolling the merits of the horse paleo diet.
That reminds me of the truth that you need to be much smarter to be a vet than a doctor. Christ, horse physiology is weird, and not particularly well-characterised (well, it could be a systemic bacterial infection...or a dietary problem...or something obstetric...or just a wear-and-tear injury...or too much grass, and they all present with the same symptoms).
So for the last half a million years or so, the half a dozen species of horses that have flourished on three continents on a diet of grass have been going wrong where, exactly?
If you look at wikipedia, the problem is grass that's unusually sugary for some reason. Lush fields of well-fertilized spring grass, for example. Running wild on a prairie, it's probably not a problem.
That reminds me of the truth that you need to be much smarter to be a vet than a doctor.
Not true! You just need to be a better shot.
What did horses eat back on the veldt? Isn't a prominent feature of the veldt that its, you know, covered in grass?
9 -- once again, sugar is poison.
Horse meat is pretty good. Shame it's illegal to raise horses for meat here.
A domestic horse, especially thoroughbred kind, is a fair bit removed from whatever horses roamed the veldt.
The beeturia link is awesome and I never would have thought to look it up myself and had no idea there was an anemia link. Wow!
!!!
Maybe I'm anemic, being both (a) frequently mysteriously tired and (b) beeturic!
(If one may violate the sanctity of off-blog communication, one has recently, and often, been complaining about this fatigue to another commenter, whose reaction has often been to say, "maybe you have a deficiency." Maybe I do have a deficiency! Of IRON!)
14: Yeah, I think you can sicken a thoroughbred by looking at it crosseyed.
17,18: I only now learned that prolepsis and proslepsis are two different terms.
Perhaps it's American grass specifically that's problematic.
The grass thing is interesting, and seems to have potentially important implications for the evolutionary history and biogeography of horses. I'm sure someone has studied this.
I think horses evolved eating American grass but then there was an over-enthusiastic application of the paleo diet and horses weren't around until the Spanish were nice enough to bring a few back.
A quick JSTOR search reveals a few potentially relevant articles and one that may not be particularly relevant but has a cool title.
I love Systematic Zoology as a journal name. It implies all the other zoology journals are reporting half-assed research but Systematic Zoology is too self-assured to feel the need to belittle them.
I think "systematic" is actually a technical term in that context, but I'm no zoologist.
Anyway, here are some other potentially relevant papers.
Stephen Jay Gould got one of his Natural History essays out of that paper. From my distant memory of his synopsis it isn't especially relevant to this thread. But since when did that matter?
28 > 25. The papers in 27 are probably pretty relevant, especially the first one. So all you academics with jstor access go and read them and then come and tell us what they say.
If one may violate the sanctity of off-blog communication, one has recently, and often, been complaining about this fatigue to another commenter, whose reaction has often been to say, "maybe you have a deficiency."
This made me grit my teeth in sympathy.
I also have a tendency towards fatigue, but I also feel like I have a pretty simple explanation -- I do tiring things, I feel tired afterwards. I get frustrated quickly if somebody responds with, "maybe there's something wrong with you."
If you tried a cleansing fast, maybe you wouldn't get frustrated so easily. Frustration is often about toxins.
I have a tendency towards fatigue because I don't like working.
22: From the bit of searching/reading (on what I can access) I did it appears that fructan (sugars stored from photosynthesis) is one of the biggest issues and it is mainly a problem during relatively cold, sunny weather (one article specifically mentioned Virginia pastures and said there were peaks in April and November). There seems to be some data which shows that most temperate pastures have grasses which tend to be more fructan-rich than the evolutionary diet.
I see in the meantime you're trying to invoke real science.
Horse meat is pretty good. Shame it's illegal to raise horses for meat here.
I once got lost in some city in Italy, and was walking around hungry and miserable with my then-SO. Most of the restaurants were closed because of some obscure holiday. At some point, I started repeating "I'm so hungry, I'm so hungry, I could eat anything, I could eat..." And pretty much at that stage we stopped right in front of an open restaurant advertising its horse meat on the door. I decided that I had no choice but to follow through, went in, ordered the horse, and then felt sick while eating it, and I still don't know whether it was due to bad quality or because of a sudden spasm of "bad man eat pretty horsey".
And then I found five million liras.
In the long run, we all have a tendency toward fatigue.
What's really fucked up (and the wiki goes into the details), if the horse has too much of a sugar overload, the laminae will separate from the hoof wall, allowing the foot bone to physically rotate which equals pain and limping. It's like eating so many Twinkies that your ankles turn permanently inward, and that's that. Now you will limp painfully until you die.
Now you will limp painfully until you die.
Worst square-dance caller ever.
Sometimes the problem is subtoxated luxins. You need to experiment to be sure.
38: For we're sick to the heart, and fain would lie down.
Horse meat is pretty good. Shame it's illegal to raise horses for meat here.
Try hanging out with Tongans. The ones up here seem to be able to get it.
Really? Why would Tongans eat horse? Dog, I always understood (although I don't know if that was true or a Samoan slur about Tongans). But there's no room in Tonga to be raising horses for meat. Maybe I'm wrong and there is?
Probably there's so little room, they have to eat at least some of the horses.
Failure of imagination. Obviously, they raise seahorses.
Yeah, the dog and horse thing is totally true. We had a call a year ago of a horse poached in a pasture and obviously butchered for the meat. While I was giving my Tongan cop buddy shit about it he laughed and said there really had been a lot of horse meat at various barbecues lately.
Animal control didn't have much of a chance of solving it. They called us to go with them to a kava house in my beat to ask around about the case because basically they're afraid to go talk to a bunch of large Polynesians by themselves. The dude didn't really seem to understand me telling him the last way on earth he was going to solve that crime was by going in uniform and asking a room full of buzzed Tongans if they knew anything about a poached horse.
I wonder what the history is. Obviously, it's not traditional Tongan because they didn't have horses until Europeans introduced them, but I wonder if they were introduced as food animals by Europeans, or if eating them was a Tongan innovation. Or if they import horsemeat rather than raising horses for meat in country.
At least if everyone's buzzed on kava they're calm.
Wikipedia says Tonga covers 270,000 square miles, so they probably have plenty of room.
Obviously, it's not traditional Tongan because they didn't have horses until Europeans introduced them, but I wonder if they were introduced as food animals by Europeans, or if eating them was a Tongan innovation.
Europeans have never really raised horses as food animals, have they? That Wikipedia article you linked seems to suggest this, at least. It also suggests (with slim sourcing) that the Tongan practice arose because of the economic value of a horse to a family, which made slaughtering one for a feast a particular act of generosity.
Navajos also traditionally ate horses, especially in winter. This was definitely a Navajo innovation.
Some with JSTOR access can get right on this one: "'How Valuable a Horse Would Be Here': The Introduction of the Horse to Tonga".
Some[one] with JSTOR access more extensive than that provided by the US Department of the Interior can get right on this one
It's mostly brony fanfic, but does contain some nice bits. For example, "The reference by George Daniel to the killing for meat of the horses left by Captain Cook has already been noted."
It's mostly brony fanfic
Sure, but what isn't, these days?
Sorry, Locust Grove. Your hospitable crop-consuming swarms nestled amongst the trees can't hold a candle
Maybe this belongs on standpipe's blog, but you are aware that "locust" can also refer to a tree, right?
Sure, and chicken is a type of vegetable.
63: No one can take away my mental image of two picnic-goers coming upon a lovely spring Appalachian grove. They spread out their blanket, pour two glasses of chablis, and ZAP! set upon by voracious locusts.
They spread out their blanket, pour two glasses of chablis, and ZAP! set upon by voracious chickens.
I'm assuming that horses are raised for food in France and Switzerland. You can find horse meat everywhere, including lots labeled as 'foal' so it can't just be old worn out hacks. It's a decent cheap alternative to beef. I used to eat it once or twice a month while growing up.
I don't understand why it would be cheaper. I can understand it not being taboo, but I thought that cows were sturdy animals bred to efficiently turn feed into meat, and horses were delicate flighty things that got sick a lot. I could see it being cheap if it was just worn out hacks, but not why purpose-raised horse would be cheap. On the other hand, what I know about animal husbandry you could engrave on a horseshoe nail in twenty point type.
California was an exporter of horsemeat to France for a while, before, in one of the most outrageous crimes of our initiative system, such exports were banned by a ballot measure. I think I was one of about 4 people who voted against that ballot measure.
The U.S. certainly isn't exporting horses raised specifically for food.
I ate horse, in France. I even mentioned it in what-I-did-in-my-hols in a French class. Later, S/ally ran away from me crying. It was only after asking a couple of other girls about that that I learned that she'd been following me around for ages and I'd just completely queered the pitch with her. Potential first (long-legged brunette, if quite MPDG-ish) girlfriend, lost to a moment's horse-grilling gluttony.
I think horse-eating got started when cities got huge but weren't steam-powered yet. That was when inner London was ringed by huge stables, like the ones that are part of Camden Market, and people worried about the statistical trend showing that within 20 years the streets would be completely full of shit. Obviously, that created a big supply of old hacks, and a bigger one of horseshit (farmers got it free if they could transport it).
London is still full of hacks and horseshit, but horsemeat? not so much.
Actually, that initiative you mention, Halford, only got 59%. Surprising.
what I know about animal husbandry you could engrave on a horseshoe nail in twenty point type.
I wonder if I could convince Thundersnow to give an field-work-intensive short course at UnfogDecahedron. Maybe if we're in DC. Bonus point: there is a truly massive pile of horseshit at one of the nearby Presidential mansions (the Federalist No. 51 guy's house).
According to family lore, Yugoslav army recruits were eating rather a lot of canned horsemeat post-WWII thanks to the obsolescence of pack horses. Probably not true since grandpa was a bit Ċ vejk-like*,
Foal is nice.
* Spent at least one night in the county jail for demanding his war pension (while drunk as usual). The communist officials were not best pleased to find out he fought on the wrong side.
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