Anything they see you doing (and enjoying) they're more likely to try, so if you want to minimize their chances of ever smoking even once, then yes.
Not that I was ever able to manage being a social smoker. I don't know how people do that.
Lee always tried to hide her smoking from Mara and I think succeeded, though maybe we shouldn't count the time when she hadn't smoked in a few months and then shared an unfiltered all natural something (but definitely tobacco) cigarette with a friend and promptly fell over from the headrush upon standing up. That was entertaining!
Only because they will end up freaking out about it and hassling you once they see the tracheostomy PSAs.
I don't think you should hide it, just not do it around them. I mean, I wouldn't try to be all sneaky about it. I had a friend who used to smoke secretly in her garden and it just seemed a bit ridiculous. I suppose she was more than a social smoker though. If you're a social smoker, just give up, surely? You only annoy your friends by bumming cigarettes off them and never buying your own.
I had an great aunt who hid her smoking from all but her immediate family right up until the lung cancer diagnosis. Her kids don't smoke.
Expanding on 5, be the future metaverse comments you want to see from your kids.
1) My mom/dad smoked a little.
2) My mom/dad smoked a little and hilariously tried to hide it from us when we were young.
I guess "social" doesn't really need to be in the question. That just makes it easier to accomplish.
9: Your parents were trying to hide their grow room by pretending to try to hide their smoking.
For me personally, I like smoking enough to enjoy having a ciggie now and again, especially when I'm having a beer. I have no real urge to give up completely. I expect if/when we have kids I wouldn't smoke in front of them, but I don't really smoke in those sorts of non-pub/not-late-at-night situations anyway. I go weeks without smoking. My sister's partner has the occasional ciggie in their garden, and her (and his)* kids know about it. I don't think anyone I know smokes around their kids while indoors.
* both sets of kids from previous relationships.
7: I suppose there is a difference between not doing it around them and hiding it. That is, if your kid gets lectured at school about the dangers of smoking, and then comes up to you and asks "Mommy, do you smoke?", and your a social smoker, do you go with "Yes, sometimes when I'm out with friends", or just flat out deny it?
Denying might be easier, but then we'd have to get into whether you owe it to your kids to be completely honest with them, all the time.
My kid, now 11, explains to me that each cigarette shortens my life by 11 minutes. I smoke a few each week, generally avoid smoking within view of my son.
Nicotinic cholinergic receptors have lots of high-frequency alleles in the population, looks like there's one that predicts how addictive nicotine is:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21968931
Your s/b you're. I will happily take a bullet now if the grammar police wants to shoot me.
each cigarette shortens my life by 11 minutes
There really should be a confidence interval given with that.
I suppose there is a difference between not doing it around them and hiding it.
A friend had this encounter: she hides her smoking from her four year old. Four year old is at a friend's apartment complex. While at the pool, the other parents are sitting around smoking. My friend really wanted a smoke, but etc. She squirms because until now, there's been no real sense of deprivation with hiding the cigarettes from her kid, and so she's having to make a judgement call on the spot.
What's interesting about this is partly the class stuff going on - most everyone in my social circle (except Jammies and I) start smoking when the kids go down and we're all hanging out, and my friend has said that she'd feel judged if she were to pull out the cigarettes earlier. (I think she's probably right.)
So what was almost jarring to her was that these poor-ish parents were completely free from fear of being judged. And my friend is ostensibly the class of mother that would judge you (although she really wouldn't give a shit), but the fear of judgement was completely absent from the dynamic.
8: So . . . she didn't hide the smoking from her kids, but they ended up not smoking regardless? Or her kids don't count as "immediate family"?
They won't consciously notice it, but they'll grow up smelling it on you, and then one day one of their friends will be smoking and they'll be transported back to the halcyon days of their youth and end up addicted. So quit now. Or make sure they're miserable as children.
The best way to hide your smoking from your kids is to smoke with your butt.
How feasible is hiding it given how blatantly obvious the "clothes permeated with smoke" smell is to non-smokers?
Would you have a special set of "social smoking" clothes?
(Also I just mistyped "hide your smoking from your cigs", which is even more difficult.)
Insert smoking jacket joke here.
22: you just wear one of those injured-pet collars.
18: Mara's aunts smoke and grandmother and EVERYONE in Val and Alex's family smokes, and what seemed different from our middle-class friends who smoke was that it didn't seem to occur to them to ask whether it would bother anyone if they did smoke. We were always outside when this happened and I wouldn't have said no, but the assumption about the acceptability was striking. Val's mom almost burned Mara with her cigarette while we were all out trick-or-treating, but that's just one reason smoking around kids whose heads are at hand level is not a great idea.
19: I think the act of hiding it from somebody is what helped the kids. The key is to be duplicitous. Who you are duplicitous to doesn't matter as much as long as you are deceiving somebody.
When I was in college I found out the my father used to smoke but quite when I was born, in part to set a good example.
How feasible is hiding it given how blatantly obvious the "clothes permeated with smoke" smell is to non-smokers?
People are so convinced sometimes that what they perceive is what everyone perceives. I'm a non-smoker and I never notice that smell.
16: But it's not really the grammar police for your/you're, their/there or to/too as the error is not one of grammar but rather too-hasty writing and lack of proof-reading. The insufferables* who point out those errors in blog comments as if the writer did not know the distinction** are the web equivalent of brain tapeworms and will all go to hell when thy die.
*Exceptions granted when there is some humor to be derived from the mis-typed word within the context.
**Exceptions semi-granted for those who just want to keep things readable and urge people to proofread their comments a bit more carefully.
If you aren't comfortable with your kids knowing you smoke perhaps you should quit.
And just leave the kids at the hospital?
Can't a brain tapeworm ever go to Heaven, Stormcrow?
33: Good point. I'll study on that a bit.
My aunt smoked a lot, not hiding it, and was just diagnosed with stage IV cancer, as far as I know none of her kids ever smoked. One of her children has developmental issues probably due to smoking during pregnancy and another had a brain tumor when he was a kid but is fine now, connection of tumor to smoking is uncertain. I think her oldest kid was pretty heavily influenced to not smoke because she understood the connection of smoking with the problems her sister has, although I've never talked to her about it.
OT: So, if somebody is trying to sell a house and the listing contains the phrases "as is," "takeover where we left off," "able to bring back much of its potential," and "someone who will respect...our vision," can you assume that actually going to look would be a hugely frustrating experience? Especially since all the pictures provided have date stamps from three years ago and no street address is provided?
Either frustrating or DANGEROUS AND EXCITING!
The key is to be duplicitous. Who you are duplicitous to doesn't matter as much as long as you are deceiving somebody.
Words to live by.
The variety of the studies I've found so far relating parental smoking and progeny smoking initiation make me think this specific question has probably been studied.
Re the smell - my nan used to knit me jumpers (when I was a child) and I loved the way they smelt of her. I was a teenager before I realised they smelt of smoke.
So why does pipe smoke smell so much better? Different kind of tobacco? I've never smoked anything except one puff from a flavored mini cigar so I'm really clueless about these things.
I did, until the point at which the child in question expressed disapproval. Then I told him I would quit until the day I caught him smoking, at which time I would consider myself free to start again. I figure I've taken away the lure of the forbidden and added a hefty dose of guilt -- double win. (He's sixteen and to the best of my ability to judge still quite rabidly anti-smoking.)
38: Yes, Moby did get that one right. I just don't think smoking should be privileged in the decision of what to conceal.
You can always go the other way: organize your life around a smelly, labor-intensive, and annoying pipe-smoking habit. It's a win-win: you get your nicotine fix and completely de-glamorize tobacco for your kids. (Worked for my Dad. He did die of lung cancer, but I was NEVER tempted to start smoking myself!)
The principal of my elementary school smoked a pipe in the halls. It smelled awesome. Never got the hang of it, myself.
Bizarrely, I lived in a smoking hall in my dorm, as late as 1995-96. It seemed anachronistic at the time. Especially because our friends on a different hall kept getting community service for getting caught smoking.
41: The difference is that cigars have wrappers, which add a strong, distinct, and often harsh taste.
Also, while even unflavored pipe tobacco smokes sweeter than cigars, much pipe tobacco is flavored with things like cherry or chocolate, which should make it smell/taste even sweeter.
I think you should hide it, IMO it's actually less hypocritical that way since if they eventually catch you out you can say that you were hiding it because you know it's wrong. I'm pretty sure most kids can understand the concept of doing something they know is wrong and trying to conceal it. On the other hand if you don't they'll be getting the message that it's one of those things that adults say is bad but don't seem to think is true when it comes to adults.
I don't see how the smell is an issue if you're just a social smoker. Presumably your clothes will stink of smoke regardless of whether or not you join your friends in their way too nice pastime.
I'm curious what heebie means by "young" in the OP. Some people in the thread are talking about 12 year olds, which seems different than four year olds. (Although, perhaps that's its own interesting question: is hiding it from younger kids different from hiding it from older kids? Why?)
I smoke cigarettes only very rarely, but I smoke a cigar about once every week or so. The wife hates it when this is in front of the kids. Personally, I don't see why it's any different than drinking alcohol in front of them (which we don't hide). Both can be addictive and dangerous if used excessively. But I don't do either enough to be (signficantly) harmful. So why does it matter if they see?
I was thinking of kids under, say, 8.
50: But what is different about your 6 year old seeing you smoking and your 10 year old seeing you smoking?
49 Because cigarettes seem to be a hell of a lot more addictive than alcohol while also being (these days) much less of a standard part of socializing. Among people I know I'd say the majority of those who are or were social smokers ended up at some point with a regular habit. I know only a couple people who ended up alcoholics even though every single person I've known drinks or drank socially.
Old kids can move quicker so they don't get hit by the ash.
I just had a talk about this with Sally -- it started when she mentioned that her health teacher had defined anyone who drinks alcohol most days as probably an alcoholic, and I explained that I could stop anytime I wanted to, and while we're talking about it pour Mommy a drink.
But it drifted off into smoking -- she asked if Buck had ever smoked, and I told her yes, he just never smoked much. He's one of those natural social smokers, who doesn't want more than a cigarette every few days, but he quit that when the kids were a couple of years old. But that she should never never try it, because on most things she takes after my side of the family, and both grandparents chainsmoked for 35 years or so, my sister smokes, and I only don't smoke through a combination of good sense and some accidental aversive conditioning (nearly picked it up in the Peace Corps, but every time I started smoking out with people was the same kind of night I woke up the next morning with a killer hangover. Do that three times in a row and the cigarettes start looking repulsive.) (Although they still smell good. I very occasionally, and absurdly, bum a cigarette off a friend despite really not ever having smoked enough to think of myself as a smoker -- I'm probably still under fifty cigarettes lifetime.)
Pipe smoke can smell pretty nasty. It just depends on the tobacco.
her health teacher had defined anyone who drinks alcohol most days as probably an alcoholic
Her health teacher is an asshole.
And 52 is right -- I made exactly that point to Sally, that most people who drink can do it sensibly, but most people who smoke end up addicted. People like Buck, who really have no trouble smoking at the 4 cigarettes a week level, are unusual, and people like my family are the norm. Which means starting at all is a plausible route to either a whole lot of unpleasant work quitting, or all the health risk of being a smoker.
Is the objective behind "hiding" to reduce the probability that your kids will ever try a cigarette? Will ever become social smokers? Will ever become addicted, regular smokers?
Presumably anyone who is a social smoker wouldn't much care if their kids did either of the first two. So, the question boils down to how will the fact that my kid sees that I socially smoke a cigarette from time to time alter the probability they he or she will grow up to become an addictied smoker. I've got to think the effect is very small.
Although they still smell good
Does not compute. That implies that cigarettes ever smelled good.
56: More of an idiot than an asshole -- I don't remember what the other thing was, but we'd already talked about "Don't believe anything Prof. NewAge tells you without checking it with either me or a reference book." Wasn't homeopathy, but something almost that silly.
It was funny, though, because I'd had a similar conversation with my parents at the same age, where our health text had a little chart of how much alcohol would make you buzzed/drunk/passed out/dead, and Daddy had told stories that were way past the 'dead' level. Of course, that was decades ago when men were men and seventeen Manhattans was a reasonably supportive way to spend an evening with a friend whose marriage was breaking up.
I suppose one could think that (1) seeing mommy smoke socially will increase the odds that Johnny will someday try to smoke socially, thinking it's harmless, and (2) most people who try to smoke socially end up addicted. Ergo, Johnny seeing mommy smoke socially is a bad idea. But that's an odd chain of logic.
59: They smell awesome. Too much in a small space, or old smoke in upholstery, can smell bad, but they really do smell good to me.
60.last: If they were out, the bartender was almost certainly giving them mostly vermouth and water by the end of the night.
Possibly, but the chart was still clearly overaggressive.
56: The latest revision of the DSM (5) proposes to redefined alcoholism much more broadly, so maybe that's where it came from.
But what is different about your 6 year old seeing you smoking and your 10 year old seeing you smoking?
Oh, it's an artificial line. Just "Is it a good idea to artificially rig what your young child takes to be 'normal'?" Whereas you can discuss more complicated ideas with an older kid. Or not.
A lot of this depends on whether or not one attaches some morality onto the act of smoking itself. Both my wife and I are on/off smokers (me much more than she), and she does "quit" more easily than I do, in part because (my belief) she has a value judgement on the act itself. Smoking is bad.
I don't really believe that at all; can't make a precise moral argument against it. I enjoy it, plenty of things are "bad" and enjoyable, the "badness" in fact may contribute to the enjoyment.
As for our four-year old seeing it, I'm fairly unconcerned. She asks smart questions, and because of influences at school and other places, she feels quite confident in regularly chastising me about the habit. Which I like--independent minds, and all.
How feasible is hiding it given how blatantly obvious the "clothes permeated with smoke" smell is to non-smokers?
I think it depends how much you smoke, and where. Sometimes it's really noticeable and sometimes not at all; even to people who claim to be hypersensitive to the smell of it.
re: 52 and 57
Some people don't seem to be that susceptible, I think. But obviously it varies. I guess I'm more like Buck in that I have no problem at all not smoking for long periods, and I went from being a regular smoker to an occasional smoker. For me it's about habits of behaviour much more than any kind of sense of addictiveness.
(1) seeing mommy smoke socially will increase the odds that Johnny will someday try to smoke socially, thinking it's harmless, and (2) most people who try to smoke socially end up addicted.
I think it's loosely wanting to instill a normative sense of a world without smoking.
The thing is, I want my kids to smoke. Or at least to give it a try. Obviously if they don't like it, that's fine, but I like it, and I imagine they might as well. I don't want them to smoke so much that they put their health at risk (which means not very much smoking at all, really), but it's a pleasurable experience.
I don't want to brag, but I've never had a cigarette, and I'm so fucking superior to you.
72 was actually to the whole thread, but it works so well to 71.
71: Obviously, you just give a reasonable number of Camel Bucks and let them pickout something to wear to school so they can stay connected to it while they wait to turn 18.
urple! We are all waiting for very important information from you!
71: In that case, its probably best to start the kids out on menthols, as the minty flavor will help ease them into the habit.
75: Did I miss something? I haven't been reading comment threads regularly.
No, we missed something. Unless you explained your genuinely novel sex act somewhere.
71: I think whether that's a lousy idea depends heavily on how hard it is to be a very light/social smoker (and I guess on what the health risks of very light smoking are. I tend to assume they're very low, but I don't know for sure.) I'm pretty convinced I couldn't be a light smoker based on family history and how attractive they smell (and when I have one every few years, taste); if I ever got to the point of buying cigarettes at all, I'd be a heavy smoker.
I think it's quite hard for most people to be a long-term very light smoker, so it's a bad idea to encourage kids to start smoking with the belief that they'll be able to. But I might be wrong about the odds.
my father used to smoke but quit when I was born, in part to set a good example.
My grandfather used to smoke but quit shortly before he was born, in part because he was dead.
81: Some kind of accident with a time machine and a contraceptive?
If you shit before being born, you can get meconium aspiration syndrome. Go ahead and piss all you want though. That's fine.
80: One thing I really like about cigars is that they're a lot easier to keep as a fairly irregular habit, because of the time involved in each and the intensity of the experience. It's a lot easier to think 'just one more' with cigarettes. 'I'll just have one quickly before breakfast' doesn't really work with cigars.
And I didn't really mean I'd encourage my kids to start smoking. I'd certainly warn them all about the health risks, and strongly encourage them to keep it in moderation, and to back off if they start feeling addicted. But within those parameters I wouldn't really discourage them from smoking, if they liked it.
re: 80
Yeah, and regularly smoking in any quantities is sufficiently bad for you it does seem like it's a good idea to minimise the chance kids will take it up.
Booze at least is actually good for you, up to a certain threshold.
and to back off if they start feeling addicted
I don't think most people work that way.
Nothing about 61 seems odd to me: which of (1) or (2) do you think incorrect?
I can see 71. But then I find being around smoking distinctly unpleasurable, and have been quite pleased to see its continuing ghettoization. I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.
I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.
Obesity is the other thread.
The X and I did not hide (we smoked in the house, car, planes, wherever else we could) our smoking from the kids, neither one smokes. I gather each one tried a puff or two and that was it.
I quit a 2 1/2-pack habit a few decades ago, and I still miss it. I still enjoy the smell of tobacco smoke.
I also still have the occasional dream about smoking.
I am a radical anti-smoking parent, and I find urple's 71 viscerally vexing, but I'm aware of the limitations of my approach. My parents were both radical anti-smokers, and seven of their eight children ended up smoking.
91: At that time, it would have been close to impossible to raise kids to think of smoking as non-normative for adults. I think it is different now.
Anecdatum: My dad smoked from an early age; my mother never did. He quit at some point but had trouble sticking to it. I only learned in my late teens or possibly college years that he had been smoking and hiding it (mostly away from us, but occasionally out back, rinsing with the garden hose). I don't think I would have known if they hadn't told me, and I was never tempted to start.
it started when she mentioned that her health teacher had defined anyone who drinks alcohol most days as probably an alcoholic
"I have the sneaking suspicion that you take your alarmist medical parameters from the same commercial insurance literature that classifies Elijah Wood as morbidly obese. Fuck along, now.Pour Mommy a drink."
95
I have the sneaking suspicion that much of the "alarmist medical parameters" are actually meant to increase usage/dependence of said "bad". Guilt sells more guilt.
I'd imagine it's easier to remain a social smoker these days then a generation ago. You can't smoke at bars, you can't smoke inside at most parties and there's a degree of social disapproval. When I went from social smoker to full blown addict in 1993 Poland the only places you couldn't smoke were mass transit and non smoking areas in restaurants and trains. When I started grad school in NYC a few years later, it was theoretically illegal in workplaces, but about half of the profs allowed it in their offices, and one allowed it in seminars. There were smoking areas in libraries, bars and parties were all smoke filled, many non smoking friends allowed smoking in their homes even during things like joint study sessions - it's something that changed very rapidly.
That's probably right -- someone who, unrestrained, would be a heavy smoker almost certainly has a much better chance of staying a light smoker now.
98: It's so much of a pain in the ass and expensive in California to smoke that it wasn't worth going back to after the semi-enforced four day quit in 2007.
I still miss it on occasion but going from a pack/day of unfiltered Luckies to zero was surprisingly easier than I thought it would be. Fear of immediate death or worse was a good motivator too.
I harangued and terrorized my father into quitting smoking when I was in second grade (we were basically instructed to do so by our health teacher -- he actually had to apologize and tell us to stop throwing out our parents cigarettes). My mother quit before I was born. My maternal grandfather the Wigan coal miner started smoking and going down in the mines at age 6. Not entirely sure when he quit the mining, but he kept smoking until he dropped dead of a stroke at like 80.
I've smoked maybe five cigarettes in my life, purely because the gesture of smoking is fun. Other than that it seemed neutral to slightly gross. But after this thread, I want to try smoking a pipe!
(Anecdata portion of comment: my dad smoked before I was born for not very long and had the occasional cigar when I was growing up. His parents smoked for decades and his mother died fairly young of lung cancer.)
What about your kids being aware of you smoking pot? I don't smoke right in front of them, but the older one (4 yrs) is vaguely aware of it. We figured it was better than trying to keep a big secret that would eventually be discovered anyway and then seem like a big deal. And it seems to be working - every now and then she says 'Daddy, did you just smoke?" "Yes." "Okay." And then she moves on - she's not that interested, it's not a big deal for her. I try to be discreet but that's different to me than hiding it.
My family all seems to find it pretty easy to smoke in moderation. However, my girlfriend doesn't approve (she's allergic, has a fairly good sense of smell so she complains about it even if it doesn't rise to the level of an allergic reaction, and a relative of hers died of smoking-related cancer), so the last time I had a cigarette was when she was out of town. If she didn't mind, I'd probably still be a casual smoker. Thank god she has no problem with pot, though. I don't light up that kind of thing all that often, but it's nice now and then.
Depends on where you live, you don't want to risk your kids saying something when a cop is visiting class and getting you arrested. In Berkeley that can't really happen, but elsewhere it might.
92.3 is why I stand by my 5. Do what you do and the kids will do what they do.
Basically it seems to me that you don't want kids to know you smoke pot until they're old enough to understand that laws aren't all good and that they shouldn't trust cops. If pot were legal then you'd want to model responsible use early on, a la alcohol. But it's not which makes thing complicated.
I harangued and terrorized my father into quitting smoking when I was in second grade
I kept reading this as "I was harangued and terrorized by my father into quitting smoking when I was in second grade" and I was shocked. Shocked.
79: Sorry, no. I have standards.
You think you're better than us? Just where the fuck do you think you are, motherfucker? Where do you think you are?
I put a cigarette load in my dad's cigarette once, because it was about as much fun as you can have at 12 I was trying to remind him that smoking is bad. I only did it once because he started checking the tips for signs of damage.
I would probably be "honest" about the pot, but I wouldn't use any vocabulary that could possibly get me in trouble if it were repeated elsewhere. Like calling it cloves instead of pot.
Wife and I have never smoked pot, but her parents were into it such that 1) When she was a toddler she ate a roach; 2) Their compost pile spontaneously sprouted marijuana plants; 3) When her younger brother was in elementary school and they were teaching kids about drugs he raised his hand and asked, "What should you do if you think your parents are doing drugs?"
motherfucker?
Somehow I doubt that's the novel thing.
107: Dude, 2d grade was pretty stressful for me. I mean, Alderaan was just blown right up. And don't even get me started on Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru.
104 - Ha! - I live in Berkeley.
Then I wouldn't worry about it really.
110: Aren't cloves illegal now? They're the only thing I ever really smoked, and that was rare and thus special. (Ah, nerd camp memories!)
the same commercial insurance literature that classifies Elijah Wood as morbidly obese.
Well, he is. Weighing that much is not normal if you are three feet tall.
117 I didn't do anything so transgressive at Statewide Nerd Camp but it was where I went from prudish kid who uses no profanity to, well, still somewhat prudish kid who swears enthusiastically.
120: OMG, this one supergoth boy who was our friend (and clove supplier) got drunk there! And confessed this to mutual friend, who was the one who told me despite having promised not to tell anyone and also despite it being pretty obvious, although I wouldn't have been sure exactly what was impairing him so much. The mutual friend was the one who was the reason I missed curfew one night, because we were sitting in a parking lot trying to think of the word "esoteric" and handicapped because he'd thought it started with an S. He and I had some innocent spots for sure. (My back-home high school girlfriend, who's a complex story in her own right and I think we were quasi-broken up during the summer anyway what with her not actually liking girls and all and my just being a regrettable aberration or something, was so upset with me that I had had, like, puffs from a clove cigarette on more than one occasion. Where had I gone wrong?)
In retrospect 108 may have been a bit harsh and counterproductive, so let me rephrase in a more positive manner. I pledge, as God is my witness, that if I ever invent a truly novel sex act, or even a relatively novel sex act, that I will post the details about it in this forum. I cannot presume to speak for others but I suspect many here would agree to do the same.
122: I think someone should set it up, so that you have to agree to those terms before you are allowed to comment here.
Goddammit, fine. You want to know? Fine. Eat constipating food for a few days until you've got a nice solid log of hard shit in your ass, then position yourself ass-to-vagina with a woman and poop that log of shit directly into the woman's vagina. No hands. Sort of like a very deformed version of the human centipede.
See? Not actually something that would be fun for anyone. Just as I said.
Now, find me preexisting evidence of this activity, and I'll retract my claim of a novel invention.
I feel disgusted with this whole conversation.
You're my hero. Plus I'm crying.
Now you don't have any excuse not to name it on Urban Dictionary.
It's everything we hoped for and more. It's glorious.
And you've come to the right place; I'm sure apo will be back with a definitive ruling.
Thank God it's almost deserted here.
My guess is that for the ruling to be truly definitive, we'll need someone who reads German. Knecht?
Knecht seemed likelier to have done prior relevant research.
True. Especially if it also involves a library or a insubstantial blouse.
I second 127. An outstanding achievement, and cause for celebration.
I suggest "Logging" as the name for the act. Simple and evocative.
New levels of subtext for the "Lumberjack Song".
136: Halford wins, and finds precedent. I mean, it's not quite on all fours, but awfully close.
I can't believe my net-nanny (a) doesn't mind Urban Dictionary, and (b) lets me read this thread.
140: This is different, both in the fresh-not-frozen aspect and the look-Ma-no-hands aspect.
Different, but suggestively similar.
I think this phone app would be a fine accessory.
PoopLog is a free application that allows you to track your bowel movements using the Bristol Stool Scale on your Android powered device. Once you record the type of bowel movement, volume, and time, PoopLog allows you to attach a note, attach a photo, ...
145: I actually know someone who, in relation to a chronic medical condition, expressed a desire for just such an app. And it exists!
Also, this involves two people, not one. Together, these differences should be enough for this act to merit its own entry in the New Expanded Kama Sutra - Unabridged Edition.
I still think that this would qualify as a kind of logging, but perhaps that reopens the birds/dinosaurs debate. An alternative is "Urpling." Urple, you have achieved that of which every man dreams -- your (pseudo) name shall live forever.
I must say that I find myself suffused with the glow of complete satisfaction. I have absolutely no further expectations of the day other than that I beat the bum I am playing in racquetball this evening.
beat the bum
Still not Urple's sex act.
I knew a guy whose faux-affectionate-actually-hostile nickname for his girlfriend was Cunty Poopchute.
It's the pre-planning that puts it over the top. Talk about extended foreplay, "Why's that man in the corner eating cheese chortling to himself, daddy?"
So, when urple said he invented this act, does that mean he just had the concept for it, or … ?
Really? I think it's the fecal matter in her hooha that really kicks it into overdrive.
heebie is right. Let's name this act "The Nasty Snatch Infection."
Oh? Or maybe the "Back to Front," as in the way ladies are told never to wipe.
Then there could be a porno called Back To The Front Her and the guy could wear a red puffy down vest and they could perform the act on a hovering skateboard.
If Urple should object to having this act named after him, I suggest the name "coblogging".
Cob-logging. Perfect. Or "give her an Urple."
But nosflow's question demands an answer.
155, 156: Well, yes, that goes without saying. But it's easy to come up with spur-of-the-moment unhygienic, disgusting acts. The genius is in the preparation.
I am not positive that Urple's invention wasn't discussed in This Movie. I can't find a transcript.
154: You go too far, sir. Our beloved correspondent has unburdened himself admirably; I believe further probing questions at this time are uncalled for.
Is that the one with the kid messaging weird sexual icons to the teacher about butts kissing?
Maybe there is a condom capable of containing the fecal matter and that could be applied while staying clean on the outside. Ask at the pharmacy.
In the original thread, Urple was deliberately ambiguous in a lawyerly way as to whether or not he had actually engaged in the activity. Dialogue was as follows:
I'm also curious what effect Unfogged was having on urple's sex life, but I'm afraid I might not really want to know the answer.
This isn't exactly responsive, but also in the time I've recently spent not commenting here I've invented what I believe is a genuinely novel human sexual activity. Or at least one that has never before been depicted in pornography. Although I haven't actually searched the internets to confirm that point.
Note that the title of the original post was "Oh look, a buch of shitheads shitting over everything."
And 156 is also my first response. "Genuinely novel sex act," maybe? "Sex act most likely to cause horrifying medical complications," plausibly.
If only we had a commenter here who could advise urple on how to protect this invention and research the prior art for him.
Why not simply "backlogging"?
"Some judges legislate from the bench; others prefer to get through as much of their backlog as they can while in chambers."
I just don't believe Urple wouldn't have tested it. Urple has never been one to shy away from actually doing disgusting things that occur to him. That's why we love him.
I see flaws in the potential implementation. I mean, you could eat a lot of cheese for several days, but how sure are you about the consistency? Could lead to an embarrassing performance if you're not careful.
Wow, that really did live up to the hype.
175: Immodium is the Viagra of cobloggers.
Y'll are apparently not cosmopolitan enough to know or at least point out that "me cago en el coño de tu madre" is a longstanding Cuban/Cuban-American insult. Arguably not quite as bizarro/satisfying as "me cago en la lecha de tu puta madre."
But is it a sex act when it's an insult?
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Does anyone here own a memory foam bed?
I hadn't heard about this issue previously, but elected not to buy one last year over just this concern after checking them out in the store.
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I own and have successfully copulated on a tempurpedic.
"Success" isn't a very clear metric in this case.
I have gone on record here as being utterly grossed out by poop stuff, but urple's description is a delight. I think its presumed heterosexuality is a giveaway, though.
Oh yeah! Thorn! You're right! What if two ladies did it simultaneously!
What does it give away?
That urple is heterosexual, I guess? In case the wife and kids didn't tip you off already.
I don't think it presumes any mainstream sexual preferences.
I own and have successfully copulated on a tempurpedic.
Cobulated?
What?! There is no presumption of heterosexuality at all, thorn. Read it again. You and Lee are welcome to join the fun.
174: sadly, it takes two to tango, as they say.
182: We have had no difficulties related to our memory-foam mattress topper. I'm not crazy about it for warmth-related reasons; it's nice in the winter, but on a hot night you could die.
"As sad as a one-man coblogging spree," they say.
you don't want to risk your kids saying something when a cop is visiting class and getting you arrested. In Berkeley that can't really happen
You sure about that? Weed's only a ticket out here and many other places, and a lot of us can't be bothered to even pretend to notice the smell as long as there's nothing else going on. But, a lot of states have something like our Endangerment of a Child on the books. Getting arrested on a felony is no joke.
(2) Unless a greater penalty is otherwise provided by law: (a) except as provided in Subsection (2)(b) or (c), a person is guilty of a felony of the third degree if the person knowingly or intentionally causes or permits a child or a vulnerable adult to be exposed to, inhale, ingest, or have contact with a controlled substance, chemical substance, or drug paraphernalia;
There is no presumption of heterosexuality at all, thorn. Read it again.
Huh, so there isn't. Not sure why I thought there was.
124: I feel disgusted with this whole conversation.
Rather belied by 191 and 193. Or maybe our enthusiastic response made you appreciate your own invention.
OK, I've done some research via Chrome incognito window and non-Google search engine and the results are:
1) I may have solved my increased appetite after working out ... for maybe the next week. And I am not someone who tends to the squeamish.
2) The concept certainly exists (see next comment on relevant Urban Dictionary entries), but did not see any which specifically had the constipating foods prelude. Many variants on freezing.
3) For actual porn, there are certainly things which are basically in the spirit, but the use of the expelled substance seems more general (and messy) rather than the rock-solid artisanallybiologically-crafted torpedo imagined by our hero. That may well be out there, but I'm done looking.
Most relevant entries from urban dictionary (evaluation of degree of closeness for most left as an exercise for the reader);
German Black Forest*: The act of defecating in a woman's vagina, usually done with solid, firmer stool as to provide ample pressure to assure penetration.
Others: Docking station, space docking, space dog, shit taco, banoffee pie, texas turd driller, cunty brown dock (these last two claimed to be something seen in porn movies).
*LB for the cultural stereotype win in 130?
Among the frozen ones (often in a condom):
Logging, flogging, frozen toboggan, turd bagging, frozen turd dildo [boooring-JPS], Icey Mike, Frozen Mickey, Icelandic Icepick, Frozen Garden Snake, the Cosmic Turd, Cold Docking, frozen ernie, tallahasee tinker toy, icycling, alpine slide, Chocolate Popsicle, Iceberging, cold cronin, Alaska pipeline, ... and many more.
I will note that "frozen stanley" was one term that came up in Urban Dictionary but which I chose not to share.
I'm actually a misunderstood tapeworm.
I went into a store - ok, IKEA - to buy a memory foam mattress after so many people talked about how they love theirs. They were sold out of the ones in my price range and pointed me to a different kind of mattress. I sat down and thought, immediately, "this is much better." So now I have a firm, non-memory-foam mattress. [Laydeez.]
A possible reference from 1890: Arthur Machen, "The Great God Pan".
"Look at this neat little packet of manuscript; it is paginated, you see, and I have indulged in the civil coquetry of a ribbon of red tape. It has almost a legal air, hasn't it? Run your eye over it, Austin. It is an account of the entertainment Mrs. Beaumont provided for her choicer guests. The man who wrote this escaped with his life, but I do not think he will live many years. The doctors tell him he must have sustained some severe shock to the nerves."
Austin took the manuscript, but never read it. Opening the neat pages at haphazard his eye was caught by a word and a phrase that followed it; and, sick at heart, with white lips and a cold sweat pouring like water from his temples, he flung the paper down.
"Take it away, Villiers, never speak of this again. Are you made of stone, man? Why, the dread and horror of death itself, the thoughts of the man who stands in the keen morning air on the black platform, bound, the bell tolling in his ears, and waits for the harsh rattle of the bolt, are as nothing compared to this. I will not read it; I should never sleep again."
Urple, you are of course right that I am not being excluded (except by myself) from your description. That "you" would not ever or in any way include me was enough to make me think there was more specificity there. I'm sorry I doubted your commitment to pansexual adventure.
Cleary the act should be called "connecting the exhaust to the plumbing".
John Waters needs to immediately pull a George Lucas and insert footage of this act into a reissued version of Pink Flamingos
202 saddens me, although I'm glad that you posted it. A German Black Forest it is. Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
I recommend disinfecting the drawing board first.
At least take some solace in knowing you're on the right track, so to speak.
Rather belied by 191 and 193.
Those comments were typed in jest by a drunk man. I wouldn't infer too much from them.
Now I'm wondering if it's possible to poop into the suitably prepared bum of another, thus rendering the act completely pansexual. Probably a lot safer, though still kind of a bad idea.
Generally, 'not fun' completely failed to convey the nature of the act. I was speculating along the lines of something pointlessly bizarre yet dull, somehow, rather than disgusting. Should have known that any guess I could possibly make would be way off.
"Disgusting" is maybe a tad judgmental.
You need external judgment, urple, to restrain you from your impulses.
I was speculating along the lines of something pointlessly bizarre yet dull, somehow, rather than disgusting.
Synchronised swimming, say.
219: Fecal transplants are sometimes medically helpful, so it's not so clear that it'd be unhealthy typically.
220: yeah, I was trying to imagine some more pointless version of the act allegedly desired by bound feet fetishists.
221 Especially when compared to smoking in front of your kids.
Indulgence in otherwise disgusting fetishes is a good example of willpower at work. Discuss.
I'm not really sure what counts as a social smoker. My Mom was a social smoker in the 70's and early 80's, but she was never addicted and only smoked when others were around. Back when most people smoked and there were ashtrays everywhere, she smoked when other people did. Once there were health campaigns, most people quit and people went outside she stopped. If she had to go outside she couldn't be bothered.
Indulgence in otherwise disgusting fetishes is a good example of willpower at work. Discuss.
Children who don't eat the marshmallow are more likely to connect the exhaust to the plumbing. Fact.
229: If that is a deliberate attempt to shift the subject back to the topic, I salute you.
Oh um wow. I just started catching up with this thread and am at the revolting part! I feel like the novel sexual act can't really be novel; it's a very common reference in a Spanish insult. Let's see if I'm pwned.
Oh also a similar activity is referenced in Miranda July's first movie, the name of which I'm blanking on.
I don't think it presumes any mainstream sexual preferences.
It does seem to be beyond straight and gay.
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there. And shit into you."
Did you see 202 yet? It turns out urple failed us.
Yeah I finally caught up. But I thought I'd keep commenting into the void.
I am mortified by scatological humor so I'm all but fainting here.
I'm with Smearcase. Plus, I recently introduced someone to the blog, and I pray to God that she doesn't read this thread.
What? Human experience in all its myriad forms, reality. Denial of reality the only true crime.
Or maybe explain that there is a very complicated backstory ...
Oh, God. I just read 124. It's not quite as bad as those infected brains, but it's pretty gross.
240 gives me an idea for what I believe is a genuinely novel human sexual activity.
Ghhhhuhhh. Today I went from never having heard of a fecal transplant to having heard of it twice in one day in entirely unrelated places. Where is the "unknow" button?
"Eternal Sunshine of the Shitless Mind"
Why would you want to unknow something like that? It's fascinating.
To make room for less gross fascinating things.
Come on, it's easy to make up totally unrealistic sex acts and claim they're novel even if no one actually does them. I'm going to make you a dildo from my earwax.
That seems rather forward, SP. Honestly.
You sound tense, SP. I think a little Urpling might relax you.
Urban dictionary already has a long list of definitions for "urple". Urple should murple them and fix it.
Does urple actually want to name this activity after himself? I don't think he's ever said that.
Remember when De/Long expressed a *shudder* over the reading of unfogged? And everyone was like: Why would he say that?? Oh, I know, he must have meant the length of the threads! Yes, that must have been it.
Some men have greatness thrust upon them, Teo.
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there. And shit into you."
Lurve.
Urple's idea remains a wrongdoing because if there is a woman involved, she is going to get an infection!
Terrible, terrible idea.
215: 202 saddens me, although I'm glad that you posted it. A German Black Forest it is.
I will point out that, somewhat in line with SP's 246, I can find no evidence that that particular term has ever been used on the internet to refer to the concept of the act in question* other than in the Urban Dictionary entry. I have not, however, done a search in German.
*Much less actual performance of the act.
Today I went from never having heard of a fecal transplant to having heard of it twice in one day in entirely unrelated places.
You know, threads like this are a big reason the Roman Empire fell.
You really need two separate accounts to explain why the western and eastern empires fell.
That's an excellent point. The Western empire fell because of the invasion of German barbarians with their scheisse videos. Explaining the fall of the Eastern empire requires further research.
I believe the conventional approach is to blame the Turks.
I believe the conventional approach is to blame the Turks Venetians/Crusaders.
The Palaiologos restoration was a bit of an afterthought really. Bound to fall over at the first serious push.
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Cooking with Miles Davis:
http://www.gilttaste.com/stories/1016-miles-davis-s-chili
http://www.voicesofeastanglia.com/2012/05/miles-davis-chili-recipe-cool-and-hot.html
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You know, threads like this are a big reason the Roman Empire fell.
Why else do you think Bob spends so much time here?
How the St. Louis-born trumpeter refused to repeat himself--he simply would not look back, or mine his past work.
Wouldn't repeat his recipes for chili either apparently.
Heh re: chili variation.
There's a quote from some 80s documentary I saw on Davis, where they were interviewing Keith Jarrett.* Jarrett tells a story of when he was in the Davis band,** and Davis was sick, and one night on stage he started mournfully playing some slow standards [Stella by Starlight, etc] which at that time he hadn't done in that sort of way for 10-15 years or so. Jarrett asked him after the show why he didn't still play that stuff -- because he sounded amazing when he played it, and so clearly 'feeling' the music -- and Davis' reply was, basically, that he'd rather not play, than play what he'd already played before, even though he loved to play (like that).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoN7j3ZLMdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVnm66joQk
* Who, if you've seen him interviewed, comes across (to me at least) as something of a dick.
** this band: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOdVlUEVsVU