I agree with you, LB, so you have that going for you. Of course, I wear ear plugs to this sort of thing, so you may not want to be seen with me.
Another earplug-wearer here.
I'm generally OK with loud music in bigger venues. But a few times in the past couple of years I've seen bands in club sized venues where the volume was insane. Actual physical pain, and I'm fairly used to loud gigs (teenage metal head, own a fucking great Marshall amp, etc).
Acoustic Ladyland were, I think, the loudest band I've ever seen, and they are/were (nominally) a jazz act. Loud is good, sometimes, but this was too much for a small venue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dqr1W-4-Wo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRPPXAM1o0 [not all quite as loud]
So is the idea with the earplugs that you can still hear the music, but at a comfortable level? And it works?
re: 4
If you get good ones, yes. Lots of friends who are regular gigging musos [even just the people playing covers in pubs] own them.
Yeah, earplugs. I keep a pair on my keychain.
I started wearing earplugs to shows when I hit 30 or so. Then I had two more children and going out to see live music became a fond memory.
Okay, so now I'm just whining, but why is it better to have the music at a level where people who like going to see bands need earplugs, rather than at a level where it's comfortable without defensive measures?
8: It's kind of entertaining when on the drive home you take them off and everyone else in the car is shouting?
re: 8
I suppose it depends on the music. I'd expect a metal band to be fairly loud, it sort of fits. Same with some kinds of dance music. But I don't really get it with some other styles of music, though. You do want it loud enough that you aren't competing with the audience, I suppose, but that's a long way short of how loud a lot of people often are.
I grew up with the Jim Marshall revolution, more or less, so I can testify that the default has got louder over time and it isn't necessarily a good thing. Loud is good for rock. So loud you can't hear yourself think usually means that the band aren't good enough to play a bit quieter, or (subset of the above) that they're incapable of adjusting to the size of a venue (frex Hendrix, AFAIK, was the first to regularly deploy 500 watt stacks, but he hadn't been playing small clubs for a while by then - he didn't use 500s at the old Marquee.)
I have this weird thing that too loud music sends me to sleep - literally, I nod off and come round again when they stop. But I've long stopped going to places where I expect that to happen, because if I go out now I want to talk to the people I'm with and hear what the musicians are playing, not an undifferentiated wall of noise.
There's probably some kind of explanation like making the music a bit louder always makes it sound better, so norms creep up. But man does it make me feel like a no-fun wet blanket.
Earplugs seems unnecessary. They should just turn down the damned music.
Earplugs of course don't help with the socialising in a bar part.
Anyone want to explain to me what makes that fun?
I reckon we're about to see whether the oudemia bat signal works properly.
8
Okay, so now I'm just whining, but why is it better to have the music at a level where people who like going to see bands need earplugs, rather than at a level where it's comfortable without defensive measures?
I think some bands figure if they can't be good they can at least be loud.
Anyone that plays in, or has played in, a band will also have horror stories about intra-band volume wars. Drummer with heavy hands, so guitar player 1 cranks up a bit, then guitar player 2 can't hear his/her part, so cranks up a bit, then bass player, loop/repeat. Then drummer finds he/she can't hear themselves, so they end up with the kit mic'd and a monitor, and so on.
I remember in one teenage band, I had a 100watt Marshall, ffs, and I struggled to hear myself. Admittedly, it wasn't a full-on stack or an older one like I have now* but still, that's stupid.
* bleeding from the eyes, etc when turned up.
The frequent patrons that don't wear earplugs have been partially deafened, so they need the music loud.
Maybe the audience was all skeet shooters who didn't wear ear protection? They are also partially deafened.
That way you can enjoy skeet shooting for years.
bleeding from the eyes, etc when turned up.The way god intended it!
15: Ha! I wear earplugs! (I basically spent a show pinned on my right side to a stack of amps when I was 15. Nothing good happens to that ear when it is beat up too badly.) And recently I was complaining about Guitar Wolf coming up in the shuffle when I'm driving and how I can't hit skip fast enough. I am old.
But LB gets it. The "aural assault" thing is real and desirable (I think) for certain kinds of music -- dance music, chest-beating thumos music of various sorts, as ttaM notes. I have no idea why country music needs to be that loud.
some bands figure if they can't be good they can at least be loud.
It seems possible that LB's "insanely loud" is my "moderately loud," but I've no clue. I was at a Fucked Up/Titus Andronicus show in November with 2 other members of the Mineshaft, so perhaps we can compare. I would say that was appropriately punk-rock loud, but not "aural assault" levels or unpleasant.
I have no idea why country music needs to be that loud.
If it isn't loud, it becomes folk music.
The "too loud to chat" thing is why I find loud music so boring (unless I'm dancing, and I just don't seem to see people dancing that much, except sort of stationary in place, unless you get really close to the stage, probably. Except country music, where there are tons of people dancing. Except Jammies and I have a long-standing riff about how to 2-step, and I'm right but he leads.)
I love taking the kids to Austin City Limits because we no longer try to get close to the stage. We just set up a blanket between a few stages and let the kids run around, and you can't chat.
24 That wikipedia page is not very good or informative. It also lacks the necessary entries for Flipper and Bad Brains.
The thing about two-stepping is that you have to be willing to ignore the music, or ignore your dancing.
I wear earplugs too, but in response to 4 they definitely affect the sound of the music. They muffle the higher-end more than the lower end. If the music is sufficiently loud and rocky, it won't make a big difference.
This is with standard foam earplugs that you buy at the drug store for a few pennies. You can buy fancier ones that have a more uniform frequency response, but they'll cost you tens if not hundreds of dollars.
As for loudness, I think it's usually the worst when the club isn't full. My guess is that sound guys calibrate for a full room; when the sound is rattling around in a half-empty room it gets painful.
27: Well, unless I'm in a cocktail lounge or someplace like Joe's Pub I don't expect to be able to chat over the music. (Here I am speaking only of volume; it's often not very nice to chat over the music!)
My wife and I had a years long passive-aggressive thing because I have sensitive ears and I wear earplugs and I have two heads of height on her, so we would go to concerts and she would tap my shoulder and I would stoop over and she would stick her mouth close to my ear and shout and eventually I just started ignoring her, but since it was loud I never got around to explaining that I wasn't trying to be rude it was just physically painful... And so on.
31: I don't expect to chat...I just get bored in its absence.
Actually, the real problem is that I have trouble thinking in loud music. I can't just get lost in my thoughts the way I could if it were silent. So I feel constrained to pay attention to the music. Which is fine for a song or two. But then I get bored.
25: This is probably right - I'd really prefer the music at a level where conversation would be a perceptible interruption. I figure your reasonably loud is a bunch louder than that.
This thread has convinced me that LB should skip My Bloody Valentine when they tour next year.
I went to a show once (Wolf Eyes) that was so loud (in a tiny club) that I found myself leaving almost involuntarily, like the sound had physically pushed me out of the space. That was extremely strange. Just completely space-filling, impossible volume treble. It would be obviously impossible to stand without earplugs, but even with earplugs it was brutal.
LB thought that no one would agree with her, but it turns out just about everyone does agree with her.
So, bands play loud, even though just about everyone would prefer they play softer. Another flaw in the capitalist system?
My theory is that when bands play at a comfortable volume, the audience may seem to completely ignore the music, carrying on regular conversations, etc. That has to be a bummer for the musicians. They turn up their amps, so they can at least get a little attention.
My theory is that when bands play at a comfortable volume, the audience may seem to completely ignore the music, carrying on regular conversations, etc....
...because listening to live music gets boring.
Maybe you need to go see better bands?
37.3: It's worse than that. If the music doesn't drown out the room noise, then it gets picked up by the stage mics and amplified through the monitors. It sounds like the audience gives less of a shit than they actually do.
If I'm given my druthers, I only go see live music for old people. Even for old people music, I'd rather not go to arena shows. Six not entirely sober people with fiddles and a bodhrán are nice, for example.
33 So I feel constrained to pay attention to the music.
Horror!
The last few times I went to rock concerts, the main thing I was bothered by was the amount of marijuana smoke in the air.
If the smoke is the water, you went to a concert in a bong.
My favorite kind of rock show is somebody tapping their foot and humming in a closet with the door closed while I enjoy a glass of milk.
As long as the floor is carpeted to keep down the noise.
I wish they'd keep it down in that closet. Sheesh.
I have a theory, from the time I used to go to Grateful Dead concerts. They played loud. Loud enough that you physically felt taken over by the music, and couldn't particularly think. It's maybe how the sacramental nature of the thing worked best. That and adjusting brain chemistry such that you could see the music pouring (as a translucent colorful liquid) out of the speakers. Which also probably works better if it's really loud.
If I've paid a bunch of money to go to a concert, I don't want to hear your conversation, from two rows back, the next table over, or whatever.
The Grateful Dead weren't supposed to be good, were they? I assumed it was just something that became a social reference point for a given subgroup and the quality didn't matter.
Maybe you need to go see better bands?
We've established that heebie's ADD makes her unable to sit still long enough to enjoy a massage or a movie. I think this is just a variation on the theme.
Maybe you need to go see better bands?
Talk to Jammies. He never takes me to the Top 40 stuff. (Hey Carly Rae, call me maybe!)
The Grateful Dead weren't supposed to be good, were they?
They were great if you were shoved full of psychedelics. Otherwise they were just a bunch of old guys playing songs you'd heard a million times before.
We've established that heebie's ADD makes her unable to sit still long enough to enjoy a massage or a movie. I think this is just a variation on the theme.
It's funny. I'm perfectly happy to sit by myself on a porch or an airport with no one to talk to and nothing to read. As long as it's quiet-ish, then I can think about interesting things. The problem with the movie/massage/concert is that it interferes with my thinking.
Anyone that plays in, or has played in, a band will also have horror stories about intra-band volume wars.
This is, I think, the explanation that LB is looking for. It really does happen, and the groups I'm in try to police it. ("Don't jump right to turning up your amp. Ask the sound guy for more guitar in your wedge [monitor], so no one else has to hear it.")
The other thing going on is, certain (most?) guitar amps really do sound qualitatively different once they get to a certain volume. So there's a real reason to turn up—to a point. After that, though, it's the intra-band volume wars ttaM highlights.
So the problem is more solipsism than ADD?
25: I endorse your characterization of the volume at that show.
35: MBV was the loudest band I've ever seen by a mile. My ears were ringing the morning after the day after. Totally worth it.
I'm generally OK with loud music in bigger venues. But a few times in the past couple of years I've seen bands in club sized venues where the volume was insane. Actual physical pain, and I'm fairly used to loud gigs (teenage metal head, own a fucking great Marshall amp, etc).
This is not my experience at all, except for a Forward Russia gig a couple of years back, which deafened me for a couple of days, but they're supposed to be really loud. I go to quite a lot of small venue gigs and they're too quiet 10 times as often as they're too loud.
58: Which is why I'm always surprised at the lack of camaraderie here.
That said, Brixton Academy does regularly amplify music too loud, but that's as much a question of the mix as it is decibels.
re: 62
I've been to the Academy a few times. I'm talking louder than that. I've seen a few bands at the Zodiac [in the small room, before they renovated], which were like the sort of extreme physical pain noise that Tweety talks about in 36. Where your ears start 'over-driving' and you loose the ability to distinguish sounds and it just becomes white noise.
I like movies because it's the only time my internal monologue shuts off.
I saw the Gratetful Dead live, sans psychedelics, and I thought they were pretty good.
I'm fully on board with the old people upthread (and the OP). I experience live music at typical volumes as undifferentiated LOUD! and can't pick out anything resembling music from the noise. On the plus side, there are flat frequency response earplugs available. I haven't tried them out of perverse stubbornness about lawns and such, but I'm told they work well.
65.2: Ditto. But in 1974 and it was a variant of the band billed as "Jerry and Friends". A top 10 concert for me (although I think I might now have twenty+ concerts in my top 10).
I've seen a few bands at the Zodiac [in the small room, before they renovated], which were like the sort of extreme physical pain noise that Tweety talks about in 36.
The Cowley Road Zodiac? I can imagine them doing pain noise, but I've never experienced obviously inappropriate loudness there a la the OP. Saint Etienne were just fine when I saw them at the Zodiac, and when I went to their cheesy DJ nights as a student, it wasn't absurdly loud. Much quieter than, say, The Coven.
In 1974, Weir turned 27. Jerry was just over 30. Obviously not yet at Apos old guys playing songs you'd heard a million times.
I've seen the Dead sober as well. I liked the second set just fine, but the first set was mostly boring until the last part of it. I've tended to have that reaction generally, though; I liked them for the noodling instrumental parts. I really don't need to hear 25,000 hippies sing along with Sugar Magnolia ever again.
re: 68
Yes, or the O2 Carling Corporate Hut Oxford or whatever it's now known as.
I am 100% on your team, but I am also incredibly pissy about other people's noise, so you may not want me on your team, as I may bring a taint of unreasonableness.
The times I've seen the Dead (in the 90s) they played at an entirely acceptable volume. If we're defining "good" as playing the notes they intend and singing in a way that's understandable to human beings, then they were "good."
Smearcase's taint is not merely unreasonable. It's downright outrageous.
I'm under 30 and I find concerts too loud to the point of being physically painful, so I generally avoid them. I wear earplugs when I go, as do all my friends (most of whom are way cooler than me.) I also was basically an 80 year old from birth, so I'm not a good measure of young people these days though.
74: I should know better than to use words around you people.
The most recent concerts I have gone to were: 1) Yo La Tengo, which was pretty loud but not in a way to make a person crazy and 2) Mangum at BAM which was exactly the volume I wish music were played at most of the time. Yeah ok fine the entire point of mentioning this is to boost my invisible cred. Everything else I went to was people in wigs screaming about swords and incest in German.
I read that as Magnum* for a minute, and I thought of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v5svRnN21Y
which didn't seem to fit with my mental Smearcase image.
* I did actually see them, circa 1988. They were surprisingly good in a high-80s rock-cheese way.
people in wigs screaming about swords and incest in German
Yeah, I'll bet Rammstein was loud.
69: Obviously not yet at Apos old guys playing songs you'd heard a million times.
Yes. Since Moby's query was apparently not time-limited but apo's response was I thought I would add some earlier data. Which is why I prefaced with "but".
I don't have a problem with loud concerts -- as noted, I'm not interested in your talking (or singing -- I was pretty surprised the first time I was at a Dead concert where huge numbers of people sang along [pretty much at the end of the time period I went to Dead concerts] the whole time). But what gets me are events more at the party end of the spectrum, either in a private home, or a commercial establishment. That's about talking, so the music has to be quiet enough to do so.
And whoever is in charge of the music keeps turning it up so you can hear it over all the din of people talking. So they talk louder.
Live music is better outside!
I have some suggestions for fabulous live music this summer in Virginia in a beautiful outdoor area. With wine!
This is not my experience at all, except for a Forward Russia gig a couple of years back, which deafened me for a couple of days, but they're supposed to be really loud. I go to quite a lot of small venue gigs and they're too quiet 10 times as often as they're too loud.
I have NEVER been to a gig, at least a gig involving electric guitars, where the music was quiet enough that you could talk during it without screaming.
And the smaller the venue the louder.
But, I am hoping we dont have any puppet vomiting.
85: You haven't seen Low, then, I take it.
I am mostly in charity with the OP, though I don't think the volume has to be low enough to carry on a whole conversation. But I should be able to make an occasional comment to the person next to me without having to shout even; this is also the volume at which my ears don't hurt.
My preferred live music venues are outside or in a bar with plenty of seats (I've always been too old to stand for a long time), including some far enough back to be able to carry on a conversation if I want without annoying the band or CharleyCarp.
This seems like the right place to complain about bad sound mixing in which I can't hear the singer well. I feel like this gets dismissed as somehow wussy (though maybe that's not a common experience) -- "It's about the music, not about being able to hear every word." Which, fuck off, good lyrics are good lyrics, and b) I like voices as instruments and I want to hear them just as much as the awesome drummer.
I don't like loud music either (which will surprise nobody) and I find that it actually makes it harder for me to feel immersed in the music because I'm distracted by feeling uncomfortable.
My threshold is pretty low, too. I went to a concert two weeks ago that wasn't even that loud and I spent much of the time sitting there thinking, "this seems like a good concert, this seems like the sort of thing that should be enjoyable, but I am not really having fun because I keep being distracted by the noise and fiddling with my earplugs."
For the record I also bring a pair of earplugs when I go see movies in the theater -- generally worth it for the previews even when the volume for the movie is acceptable.
I don't go to many concerts or many movies, but I am also spoiled by the fact that there's a lovely venue for acoustic music in town and that really defines what I think of as a good concert experience.
42: Six not entirely sober people with fiddles and a bodhrán are nice, for example seemingly inescapable in radical contexts, once you've aged out of the punk scene.
89: Also clever lyrics can be part of what makes a song interesting.
This guy has a good discussion of the appeal of loud music:
This was interesting:
Although the inner ear is thought to be the only means of sensing sound, there are reports
that the sacculus (a component of the inner ear's vestibular/balancing system) responds to
low frequency sounds that are above 90 dB (Todd and Cody, 2000; Todd, 2001).
Furthermore, the sacculus has neural connections to those parts of the brain that are
responsive to all forms of pleasure. By activating the sacculus, loud music with a strong
beat may be a form of vestibular self-stimulation. Furthermore, since loud sounds trigger
the stapedius reflex, which attenuates sound entering the inner ear, the relative
contribution from the sacculus would be increased. Dibble (1995) suggested that popular
music could only be appreciated at levels of 96 dB or more, which is consistent with the
sacculus theory. The range of intensity between pleasure and damage is extremely small.
I should read before commenting instead of skim
Unsurprisingly, since I no longer work in a live music venue, I see far less live music. It's definitely irritating, to me, to see a band whose lyrics I like, when I can't hear the lyrics. That doesn't actually happen all that often though, IME. Of course, if you want the best sound quality, you have to stand near the booth, although that can vary a lot from venue to venue, and then it's generally a lot harder to see much of what's going on onstage. First Avenue, for instance, has pretty crap sound anywhere but right next to the booth. I'm glad we have an iconic rock club here, but frankly I've never liked the concert-going experience there all that much.
On the whole, yeah, I don't go to concerts if I want to chat with people. You don't get any singing, and it upsets the pig.
I suspect not being able to hear oneself think is prized by many.
I have a very soft spot for First Avenue, but I don't have to go see shows there anymore. The place I saw the most shows by far was the old 9:30 club, which was a pretty terrible venue (good lord, the smell!), but I remember it fondly anyway. Googling nostalgically turned up this flyer from 1992. I saw five or maybe six of those shows.
I should by all rights be deaf, as I basically never wear earplugs, but I got my hearing tested a couple of years ago and it's apparently excellent.
I generally only notice "too loud" when the music (or, really, the sound mix) is off, but my tolerance may be greater than LB's. And I feel like I see about 10x as much live music as I actually do. Still, rock and roll needs loudness.
I should read before commenting instead of skim
You should do what now?
Even though we're outside, I can still hear you Kraab.
I'm OK with (reasonable) loudness in venues that are purely for listening to live music.
What really gets on my nerves is when a restaurant/cafe/bar decides to have live music and they play at conversation killing volumes. It's entirely possible to play at a level where people can both hear the music and hear each other speak. It's a skill that musicians should be required to learn if they are going to play in non-concert venues.
What really gets on my nerves is when a restaurant/cafe/bar decides to have live music and they play at conversation killing volumes.
This, absolutely. Especially if the band sucks, as they mostly do.
The place I saw the most shows by far was the old 9:30 club
Me too! Though "most" of a pretty small lifetime sample. When I was in high school, it was the only place in D.C. we went to because they (legitimately) let in underage kids.
If I'm given my druthers, I only go see live music for old people.
That's funny. Best show I've been to in ages was for the 3-7 year-old-set. It was awesome. They started exactly on time (late afternoon). First bars, and everyone was on their feet dancing, because kids are always already ready. They played for half an hour, announced a five minute break. Came back on time, played another twenty minutes and left without the stupid encore bullshit. Everyone went home for early dinner.
It was fantastic. No late night. No waiting about for the show to start. No dumb warm-up band that you don't care about. No prompting for cheers or dumb banter. No one in the audience being too cool. End on time and out. Why aren't all shows like this?
Why aren't all shows like this?
Flaws inherent in the capitalist system.
Ohmigod, the noise is coming from INSIDE the blog!
What really gets on my nerves is when a restaurant/cafe/bar decides to have live music and they play at conversation killing volumes.
Yes, this is awful.
I've also been annoyed, lately, by places that keep the volume at an extremely high level throughout the venue, even when there are two very distinct rooms within the place, one for dancing, and one that's a bar where people are having conversations. What the fuck, guys.
I was at a quieter, non-amplified show at a bar once. There, people were being silent as if at a concert and giving us dirty looks for talking quietly. Extremely contrary to the spirit of Irish music, I thought.
It can also get earsplitting even with no music, just a crowd in a house or apartment. It seems like a collective action problem / positive-feedback loop, as everyone becomes louder and louder to be heard over everyone else.
I'm also struck by heebie's talk about how the loudness would be okay if there were dancing, but there isn't. I can't really imagine going to a live music show that wasn't about dancing, at least in the sense of bouncing up and down energetically. What would the point be? (Okay, classical music is different. But I mean non-classical music. I guess folk music would be different, too. I mean: electronically amplified music!)
I went with an ex-gf to a Cat Power concert once, when she was promoting her album of covers, and we both found it really lame--it seemed like the kind of music that would be great if it were either played acoustically, or in the background at a reasonable volume at a club, but amplified, at a rock concert? Weird. Relatedly, I have a hard time understanding the point of scheduling rock acts to play at venues with seats. If you want to sit down, just listen to the CD at home!
When I went to see Orthrelm play OV back in 2004 or whatever I sat in the front room of the venue (the Empty Bottle in Chicago) while everyone else crammed the stage; it was still way too loud.
Also, the document linked in 93 is pretty interesting.
Relatedly, I have a hard time understanding the point of scheduling rock acts to play at venues with seats. If you want to sit down, just listen to the CD at home!
I saw Sonic Youth at Alice Tully Hall, which was admittedly odd, but a fantastic show for which listening to a CD at home would have been no kind of substitute.
Let me also say that the quality of the mix has, I think, an important effect on the tolerability of loudness. It's not so bad when it's really loud but you can still hear what's going on with the various players. When it's all just over-amplified drums and lead guitar, and the only way you can tell that the bassist is playing anything is that you can see his/her hands moving, it takes much less overall volume for the whole thing not to be worthwhile.
Let me also also say that I really fucking hate it when the audience at a concert talks audibly during sets. Why the fuck are you there?
I would have thought Sonic Youth to be a band where people would want to bounce around rather than sit down, but I don't really know them, so maybe I'm wrong. Granted that live was better than the CD, even in seats, wouldn't no-seats have been better still? (Though venues ought to also think about accessibility.)
Relatedly, I have a hard time understanding the point of scheduling rock acts to play at venues with seats. If you want to sit down, just listen to the CD at home!
Not everyone is comfortable spending 8 PM to midnight standing up.
Ohmigod, the noise is coming from INSIDE the blog!
Earlier today: I'm in the elevator with two other people and there is music playing, which there usually is not. It's odd music. I laugh and say "where is that coming from?" and another guy says "I was wondering that, too!" As I leave the elevator and the music goes with me, it dawns on all of us to varying extents that what had happened was my iPhone had gotten bored and decided to start playing Janáček's "The Excursions of Mr. Brouček" loudly from my pocket for the edification of all present.
I was on the subway once at the same time as someone with a large stringed instrument (I forget if it was a cello or bass) and the metronome in the pocket had somehow gotten bumped. That was crazy making. I finally asked the guy about it, and he was all "oh, I figured that was just the train making that noise" and found it and turned it off.
Relatedly, I have a hard time understanding the point of scheduling rock acts to play at venues with seats. If you want to sit down, just listen to the CD at home!
I saw Seun Kuti at Cal's concert hall a couple of months ago; by the end of the concert the aisles were full of people dancing. Listening to it at home wouldn't have been the same at all.
a restaurant/cafe/bar decides to have live music and they play at conversation killing volumes
Add me to the haters of this. There is a really decent bar nearby that we would go to semi-regularly if they didn't have horrible and loud music every night. And the nearby Mexican restaurant has started having terrible bands as well; you almost feel sorry for the bands when you see every table rushing to get done eating and leave before the music starts.
If you want to sit down, just listen to the CD at home!
If you want to listen to a band that plays things exactly the same live as is on the CD, just invite a bunch of people to your house to stand up and listen to the CD.
Let me also say that the quality of the mix has, I think, an important effect on the tolerability of loudness. It's not so bad when it's really loud but you can still hear what's going on with the various players. When it's all just over-amplified drums and lead guitar, and the only way you can tell that the bassist is playing anything is that you can see his/her hands moving, it takes much less overall volume for the whole thing not to be worthwhile.
YES.
I went to a Steely Dan concert where they played all of the songs from Asa, in the album order, note for note. I was actually kind of a Steely Dan fan before that, but now I think they are losers and suck.
I saw Stereo Total at a theater with seats. Everyone just danced at their seats.
Except for during the Patty Hearst rock opera part. People mostly stayed seated for that.
This thread seems to be conflating several different types of musical performance. Most of them seem to suffer from the same loudness issues LB describes in the post, but the remaining differences are becoming apparent in some of the subthreads.
119: The incongruity of the Lincoln Center venue added some offsetting interest. Also, I was able to listen much more closely than when I saw them play the same material (the instrumental EPs) a few months earlier in a converted meat locker.
It's been said upthread already, but My Bloody Valentine are definitely one of the loudest things I've ever experienced. Saw them in Santa Monica in 2008 and, while the earplugs saved me from deafness, the full-body thrumming sensation was positively hallucinogenic. Gave me a new appreciation of trance states. Before that, the loudest show I'd been at was certainly Dinosaur Jr. Country music that loud, if it's not 'No Depression' style stuff, is pointless.
It seems like a collective action problem / positive-feedback loop, as everyone becomes louder and louder to be heard over everyone else.
I see it mostly as a design problem (which then leads to the conversation arms race). Too many places seem to pay no attention to acoustics whatsoever when they're built or retrofitted.
re: 121
That's funny, I'd never thought of that before [or didn't remember there was a Janáček piece of that name, rather], but Czechs use Brouček, or rather Broučku (vocative) as a term of endearment.
I most recently had this experience at the Avengers movie with my kids. Two hours of auditory assault was painful and left me unable to appreciate anything about the movie.
I started wearing earplugs to shows when I hit 30 or so. Then I had two more children and going out to see live music became a fond memory.
Yes, this too!
The place I saw the most shows by far was the old 9:30 club.
Me three!
a Cat Power concert once, when she was promoting her album of covers, and we both found it really lame--it seemed like the kind of music that would be great if it were either played acoustically
Uggh, I liked her until I saw her live. I'm not sure it was amplification so much as the weird ultra self-conscious vibe she has on stage. Which I'm sure is tragic since she has severe emotional problems and stage anxiety, but I've never felt like listening to her since walking out of that show.
I most recently had this experience at the Avengers movie with my kids.
If only you had followed my example. . .
(incidentally I decided to try DuckDuckGo and was unable to locate that comment, but found it easily on google using the same search string.)
135: It's two one-act operas (Mr. Broucek's excursion to the moon and Mr. Broucek's excursion to the 15th Century.) Looking at Wikipedia, it's a name with a literal meaning, which is "beetle." So I guess that, rather than the character, is the term of endearment? Thought it appears the novels the operas were based on were quite popular.
but I've never felt like listening to [Cat Power] since walking out of that show.
My impression was it was usually Cat Power who walked out of her shows.
Re 138
Yes, it's the word rather than the character I think. It's a sort of generic friendly diminutive. Like 'hen' might be used by an older generation of Scot.
I find that the earplugs add good EQ to the music. Most of the loss is noise.
A few years back my band gave a CD release show. My father-in-law came and wore big-ass noise-reducing headphones. He looked hilarious, but I tried them on for the next band and everything sounded great.
Speaking of live music, anyone know anything about Nikki Lane? She's opening for Spiritualized tonight, and I'm trying to figure out if it's worth making sure I see her set.
Talking of the Cowley Road, we went to the PPP a couple of weeks ago to see the film of the Michael Sheen passion thing (you can see me and kid A :-) And C, albeit with a camera in front of his face), and it's a small cinema, with not a lot of people in it at all, and the volume was way too loud. Kid C had his fingers in his ears about half the time. Pointless.
I'm not a loud music person. I only go to civilized gigs these days - the Leisure Society at the Barbican for example, where we saw one of the band members' mums get into an argument afterwards with the man sitting behind her because he'd told her to stop talking during one of the songs!
There's a coffee shop that I otherwise enjoy working at a lot, which plays different music in the back "study" room, but you can still easily hear the music in the front room. That is super annoying so I wear ear plugs there, too.
One of the best gigs I've ever been to was Cat Power at the Roundhouse. Which has great acoustics.
My impression was it was usually Cat Power who walked out of her shows.
Ha, I beat her to it! Actually, I asked the guy at the coffee shop I visited a lot (I miss working in coffee shops...) how he liked the show, and he said it was great. I probably just don't like her mirroring my own weird anxiety back at me.
