Was she driving on the same side of the street as you? Would she have to yell across traffic to talk to the other guy?
No, he was on her side of the street. She had to yell across traffic to talk to me.
In light of 2, yeah, racist. At least, I can't come up with a scenario according to which he looked too busy or distracted, yet you did not. Was he wearing a high-powered suit and carrying a briefcase, looking as though he was about to duck into a meeting in that building right there?
One of the best urban moments I've witnessed in the last couple of years was a youngish white guy -- 30ish -- standing at the car window (at a stoplight) of a driver who happened to be black and lecturing him: "You almost hit me! You can't do that, pay attention, you're going to hit someone one of these days! I'm serious, man!"
I think I found it remarkable because the white guy was completely unafraid -- the fact that the driver happened to be black was not relevant. He was outraged and wasn't going to stand down. The driver was sputtering and apologizing, obviously wishing this guy would give it up already.
I'm not sure if there's something obnoxious in the way I've related this.
As a white person living in Harlem, this happens quite a lot, and yes it's racist.
Depends on whether you think statistical inferences are racist. Would you say it was sexist if she asked a woman instead of a man?
I wasn't aware there was a well-known collection of statistics on which people are most likely to give accurate directions. What will they think of next?
I get stopped CONSTANTLY for directions. I've chalked it up to the fact that I am white, have what people describe as a 'friendly' face, and yet I still look like I know where I'm going. I often get stopped while hustling to the train on my way to work with giant headphones on, while the stopper lets many others walk right on by.
I do enjoy watching their surprise when they discover that I am actually a horrific bitch when interrupted while hustling to the train with my giant headphones on.
(mind you, when I am not hustling anywhere, like when waiting for the bus, I am happy to give an entire dissertation on which train to take to get to your desired location)
8
I wasn't aware there was a well-known collection of statistics on which people are most likely to give accurate directions. ...
Would this matter?
James, why don't you just explain what you mean in 7 by "statistical inferences"?
Allow me to clarify: I know what statistical inferences are -- you don't need to explain the concept. Rather, what statistics would the questioner-about-directions be inferring from?
5: I resolve to yell at more black people.
11
James, why don't you just explain what you mean in 7 by "statistical inferences"?
Inferences that are true on average for members of groups but not necessarily true for any individual. Such as smokers are likely to die at a younger age than non-smokers. Or white people are likely to have higher IQs than black people.
13: Oh, just yell at drivers who do asshole things. I haven't the guts for it, though I wish I had. People who throw trash out the window of the car? Even an ashtray full of butts into the street? Yellable at. Take 'em to task.
LOL those are some examples all right. On a side note, it is unfortunate (for the people who ask me for directions) that IQ does not correlate to accuracy of directions. I give such shitty directions... yet I am the King of Mensa.
12
... Rather, what statistics would the questioner-about-directions be inferring from?
I think white women who avoid black men are usually primarily concerned with being the victim of a crime.
It is possible of course the woman didn't actually need directions but just thought Stanley was really cute.
15: That would mean near constant yelling.
When I pick an -ist, I commit totally to it.
Yeah, that great big FBI crime database shows that white women who ask black men for directions are more likely to have the person whom they have asked for directions leap into their car and rape them than they are to get accurate directions to where they are going.
I didn't mean 8 to start a semi-serious subthread. I meant it to poke at the ridiculousness of James's racist comment.
But 22 was to 10, 11, 12, and 14. Clearly I should have written 21 instead of 8.
21
Yeah, that great big FBI crime database shows that white women who ask black men for directions are more likely to have the person whom they have asked for directions leap into their car and rape them than they are to get accurate directions to where they are going.
The risk doesn't have to be particularly great in an absolute sense to be greater than the risk in asking white men for directions. And of course asking women would reduce the rape risk further.
I am now picturing James walking around cringing from almost everyone, all the time.
95% of all people who have accosted me on the street lately have been earnest young white people asking me to support Planned Parenthood.
essear, they want to eat your future unborn baby. Be careful.
26
I am now picturing James walking around cringing from almost everyone, all the time.
I don't worry a lot about being raped. And being a guy I never ask for directions.
People tend to ask me for directions pretty often. This is probably going to start happening a lot now that it's summer and Anchorage is full of tourists. It's only happened a couple times so far, though.
And being a guy I never ask for directions.
You should write for sitcoms.
I think James is becoming a little embarrassed, but let's not notice that.
I was the victim of a cross-racial rape (no one black involved) and I'm well aware that white men are more likely to rape me than any other demographic group, thoug of course specifics matter.
I do remember being a teenager in gay youth group as we did some exercise about privilege and we were asked who would cross a street if there were a group of young black men there. The only people who admitted they would were themslves black, and one memorably added "Because I KNOW they gon' be lookin' at my ass!" which seemed fair. I also admit that I'm much more comfortable alone in majority-black low-income settings than I am in them with Lee, which changes the dynamic. But none of this speaks to Stanley's situation, which is totes racist.
Groups of young men are dangerous. I don't think people should feel bad about avoiding groups of young men when walking down the street. I also don't think there's anything wrong with discretely crossing the street to avoid walking past someone in a low pedestrian density area. (Though really if you're being smart about that you'd be doing it long before you could see the person clearly.) What's racist is avoiding old black men and not young white men.
34
Groups of young men are dangerous. I don't think people should feel bad about avoiding groups of young men when walking down the street. I also don't think there's anything wrong with discretely crossing the street to avoid walking past someone in a low pedestrian density area. (Though really if you're being smart about that you'd be doing it long before you could see the person clearly.) What's racist is avoiding old black men and not young white men.
So it's ok to be more scared of men than women but not to be more scared of blacks than whites?
Seriously, the safe thing to do is not draw the line around who to ask for directions, but how the person responds. If the person you are asking says "oh sure, I know where it is. Why don't I just ride with you and show you how to get there?" then you say "no thanks I'll find it myself." and drive off.
There is pretty much nothing they can do to really hurt you as long as you are in the car and they are on the street.
The funny thing is, my directions sucked. I was like, "Oh, yeah, there's not a Fed Ex/Kinkos anywhere near here. This is all residential and small businesses. You need to go away from downtown or go towards the university."
The funny thing is, my directions sucked. I was like, "Oh, yeah, there's not a Fed Ex/Kinkos anywhere near here. This is all residential and small businesses. You need to go away from downtown or go towards the university."
Whereas the black guy probably would have known exactly where the nearest Kinko's was?
Are you saying black people copy stuff? Racist.
There actually is one right in this big, easy-to-find shopping center ten minutes away, in university land. But I didn't really have my wits about me and instead gave vague directions, because I wanted out of the interaction. I have no idea if the black guy knew this, but his directions can't have been worse than mine.
One of the nice things about living in a black neighborhood (especially a safe black neighborhood, like mine) is that it brings home the absurdity of being afraid of "black people" in general. There's so much variety within black people: age, ethnicity, demeanor, etc.
There's nothing racist about being more alert around a group of 18 year old black men who use the N-word every other word, then there is about avoiding groups of white frat boys, or avoiding male raiders fans of any race after a game.
Canonically, it's white people that copy black people's stuff. Hence: Elvis.
Most Elvis impersonators are white, but statistically speaking, any specific white person is unlikely to copy Elvis.
Stanley, you should have called out to the black man and asked him.
Stanley's known love of Elvis songs puts him in the "more likely to copy Elvis" category of white people.
Should I be sitting down to start working at midnight on a Saturday night? And completely amped up on caffeine? I feel like this is not what I should be doing.
Should I be sitting down to start working at midnight on a Saturday night? And completely amped up on caffeine? I feel like this is not what I should be doing.
As long as you take regular breaks to comment on Unfogged and update us on your progress, yes, this is exactly what you should be doing.
36
There is pretty much nothing they can do to really hurt you as long as you are in the car and they are on the street.
You ever hear of carjacking :
Fifty-eight percent of carjacking incidents were committed by offenders whom the victim perceived to be black, and 19% were committed by offenders perceived to be white. ...
51
Source for the quote in 51.
I had an exciting thought and decided I should stay up and calculate some things. Then I consumed some caffeine to stay up. Now I am pacing restlessly and unable to get anything done.
Clearly Stanley should have acted against stereotype by stealing the woman's car.
53: That's a good start. Keep us posted.
My first thought was "Carjacking? Do people even do that anymore?" But google suggests it's still a problem some places.
53
I had an exciting thought and decided I should stay up and calculate some things. Then I consumed some caffeine to stay up ...
This does not seem like a sound plan. What's the hurry? Personally I prefer to savor my brilliant ideas for a bit before figuring out what obvious point I overlooked.
What percentage of carjackings occur when the initial contact between the parties is driver initiated, James?
I just went for a quick walk for a few miles around my neighborhood. Got asked for directions.
What's the hurry?
Possibly have a very nice explanation for something being "explained" in about one new paper per day. Seems possible no one else has thought of this yet, but there's high risk of being scooped.
I just went for a quick walk for a few miles around my neighborhood. Got asked for directions.
I presume you responded by jacking the car and driving it home.
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Oh my god. The videos of the Pulp karaoke contest (where I won the tickets), that I'd previously thought were merely mythical, actually exist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDF0A0A4E191F29A1&feature=plcp
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Jesus, watching now, this is horrifying.
It's also confirming my beliefs that it should have been between #2 (Pencil Skirt) and #15 (Babies); I ended up giving my extra ticket to the #2 guy, since he was my friend and I was full of magnanimity, but still.
(I'm #9. But god, it's horrifying. So awful.)
(In case folks can't remember what I'm referring to.)
58
What percentage of carjackings occur when the initial contact between the parties is driver initiated, James?
Don't know but it isn't hard to find reports :
A Florida man driving a rental car was beaten and carjacked in Jersey City when he pulled over to ask for directions to Bayonne early this morning, officials said.
Some commenters thought (because asking for directions is so obviously crazy) that the victim was probably trying to buy drugs or something. But that would still be driver initiated.
And it is easy to find advice about the dangers of asking for directions:
Travel the most direct route to your destination. Search Mapquest, Google Maps, Yahoo Maps or TripTik before you depart on your trip, even if it's just across town. Asking for directions can tip off a would-be carjacker that you are lost and/or not paying attention to your surroundings.
Of course the risk of being carjacked after asking for directions is small. But some white women are delicate flowers and could be upset for days by say a crude sexual reference which is considerably more likely.
Anyway the issue seems to be how much added risk are you required to accept to avoid being labeled a racist.
60
Possibly have a very nice explanation for something being "explained" in about one new paper per day. Seems possible no one else has thought of this yet, but there's high risk of being scooped.
Ok, but is the expected time to produce your paper if your idea works really so short that it couldn't wait until morning?
a quick walk
That's a major trigger for a direction-asker. It signifies you know the area and where you're going. I got stopped often by tourists in the Hollywood & Vine area while going out for lunch and a walk.
My mother has started getting asked for directions constantly. She's well aware that it's because older white women are stereotypically about the least threatening group imaginable.
There's also the oblivion factor. It depends on the particular street width and traffic density but I usually pay more attention to the left side of the street and oncoming traffic, people walking on the right usually aren't perceived.
I suppose this is the appropriate thread to proclaim NMM to Rodney King.
Fond dead in his swimming pool--Southland appropriate.
This event helps me realise how grateful I am that my own Rodney King is still alive. C'mere and give me a big hug, my Rodney King!
Sigh. My late-night idea is a failure, of course. That's what I get for believing a number output by other people's supposedly reliable and well-tested code.
Perhaps you could turn your disappointment to hate and become some sort of supervillain.
Fond dead in his swimming pool--Southland appropriate.
I bet that tox work comes back Rodney appropriate.
67: Anyway the issue seems to be how much added risk are you required to accept to avoid being labeled a racist.
1.4%
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Last night we had multiple calls of these hit and run accidents roll in all involving the same suspect vehicle description. The third call had the victim following the vehicle and the updates were that it now had multiple flat tires, driving on the rims, and last update was the driver fleeing south on foot after the vehicle caught fire.
I'm assigned that scene and that thing is full blown on fire, spread to the interior, etc. Fire guys get it put out and while we're waiting for crime lab and the wrecker to show a guy comes up on a bike. He's the son of the registered owner of the car and says he just got a call from his sister and her boyfriend saying they'd wrecked the car and left after they couldn't get it started. He's appalled at the condition of the car and gives us the names of his sister and the boyfriend. I'm in my car pulling up DL photos and a couple mugshots of likely matches on the boyfriend's name. The son is over at the car and starts to poke around the driver side area a bit. I ask him to leave it alone for now as crime lab hasn't arrived yet and really, there's probably not much of anything in the car that's salvageable from that fire.
I have the son come over to my car to look at a couple photos of guys with the boyfriend's name. I'm sitting in the driver seat with the door standing open. The third photo or so is who he claims the boyfriend is. I thank him and stand up and am talking him and the other officer on scene when I look down at my driver door. My phone, which was sitting in the door, is gone. It's nowhere to be found. Now I'm looking at the son borderline flabbergasted because jesus, did this guy seriously just pocket a cop's phone from his cruiser?
I have the other officer dial my number. The son is standing around with his hands kind tucked in the front of his pants and the other officer tells me the phone answered but there's nothing but background noise. The son pulls his hands out of his pants, empty, and denies repeatedly having taken my phone. I apologize for asking, thank him for helping us, and as he's walking to his bike tell the officer to dial it again so we can see if the phone answers when both this guy's hands are visible. Sure enough, no answer this time.
I stop the guy and basically inform him that I'm getting that phone back one way or another and there's about to be a loss of self control on my part. He starts to deny it again and as he shifts around on the bike my phone falls out of his godamn pant leg.
I smother my urge to beat him to death and hook him up and put him in my car. I ask him what the fuck he's thinking and he says his sister had borrowed his and he thought maybe we'd found it in the car. And like a light going on in my head, him rooting around in the vehicle and taking my phone come together. He's the driver from the hit and runs. I give him Miranda and he breaks down and spills the whole story. He'd been drinking and starting fleeing accidents because he's already on parole. After he ran off he panicked when he couldn't find his phone. When he came over to my car he thought my phone was his that we'd recovered from the vehicle and snagged it.
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That person lacks important life skills.
You'd have to be in a pretty bad way if you, what, steal the bike in order to pedal up to the burning car with the cops there, after a series of drunken hit-and-runs, in order to try to get your phone back.
Kids these days. He'd never have gotten away with it in the end. Brilliant in the (very) short term, though!
Good work, gswift. I've heard from the teevee that the perp often comes back to the scene of the crime. Really, it was peculiar that the brother of the sister and the boyfriend would have been close enough, in the vicinity, to be able to pedal right up to the father's burning car, just like that.
79-80: And will probably never develop them.
Really, it was peculiar that the brother of the sister and the boyfriend would have been close enough, in the vicinity, to be able to pedal right up to the father's burning car, just like that.
Burning car abandoned in the far southwest area of our city which borders the city where they live and hang out.
84: I figured there was a plausible explanation.
As I read it, if the perp hadn't been such a prat as to think it wise to come and chat to the cops, he'd have been home free in all likelihood? D'uh.
He wanted to get his phone: this was paramount in his mind, and on reflection, it would have done him in if the cops (gswift et al.) had found it, since it has all that identifying information on it. So he had to come back to get it. It would appear.
So he figured he'd try to throw his sister under the bus -- because that always works! Except it would never have worked, because the sister and the boyfriend would have said, "Oh, please, we were out at that Italian joint [or whatever] and we never had dad's car, probably Junior had it." Junior figured he'd go on the lam or something.
Does "hook up" mean handcuff in this context?
Gswift: I don't know if you've covered this already, but as a devout watcher of police procedurals, I have to know: are any of them at all realistic? Even a tiny bit?
He'd been drinking and starting fleeing accidents because he's already on parole.
Some asshole on the same path of wisdom and fulfillment killed a friend of the Flip-Pater, some years ago.
79: The third photo or so is who he claims the boyfriend is.
Wait, were you actually doing a sequential lineup? If so, mad props to you and your department.
(If not, that's fine: you're still doing just as well as every other police department I've ever worked opposite. Grumble grumble.)
I wonder whether he knew the guy he IDed. Probably not, but not out of the question if you guys draw your photo kits from local police/corrections intake photos.
Does "hook up" mean handcuff in this context?
Yep.
are any of them at all realistic?
Most aren't, with exceptions like The Wire likely due to one of the creators actually being a former cop.
Wait, were you actually doing a sequential lineup?
I was doing kind of an ad hoc one. Pull up several, scroll through them one at a time on the laptop. I've read sequential is more accurate but I'm pretty sure the standard up in the detectives units is still the old school six pack of pics for a simultaneous lineup.
I wonder whether he knew the guy he IDed.
Claims the guy he ID'd really is the father of his sister's kid. The guy is the right age, also a dope fiend, lives near them, etc. Might be lying about how he knows him but I think he really does know the guy.
Some asshole on the same path of wisdom and fulfillment killed a friend of the Flip-Pater, some years ago.
Gah. That's why I never had much sympathy for Rodney King, bless his soul. If you want to fight after running signs and lights at 90 mph because you're DUI and on parole for robbery then maybe the universe is going to send a few baton strikes your way.
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I remember women on this blog defending Rielle Hunter, and jumping on my instinct that she was a gold-digging flake with no class.
"Hunter depicts Elizabeth Edwards as woman routinely angry at Edwards, who constantly "barks" demands at her husband, summarily fires staffers and vigilantly works to maintain a public persona as a "saint" when, Hunter writes, really she is a "witch on wheels."Edwards was also subjected to Elizabeth's wrath as she "physically attack[ed] him during all the screaming."
Hunter has little sympathy for Elizabeth's behavior. She writes that Edwards' wife of three decades, with whom he suffered the death of their oldest son Wade, "was bonkers because she had been in denial" about his cheating.
She describes Elizabeth as "crazy," and a "venomous" "witch on wheels" who is given to fits of "rage."
I am actually a decent judge of character. IYKWIM
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I am a petite white woman, and I get asked for directions all the time. The strangest time was when I was in Montreal, I got stopped and asked for directions in French, at least several times a day. I don't really look French Canadian, so I'm not sure what that was about, unless "ask the tourist because she probably knows where she's going" is a logical line of thought. I also get sat next to on public transportation, sometimes before all the free seats not next to someone are occupied.
I also do my best not to avoid people because of their race, so when I ride the bus, I pick the closest seat of someone who doesn't appear too smelly or morbidly obese. If I were asking directions, it would never occur to me to avoid asking a black man for directions because he would sexually assault me, and the only times people have ever tried to sexually assault me were nonwhite people who explicitly singled me out because of my race and phenotypic attributes, using dialogue that sounded like it came from a white-supremacist novel. Even so, I am totally aware that one person somewhere in the world (none of these times were in the US) =/= everyone who could possibly belong to that group. If a white woman told me she avoided black men because she was worried about sexual assault (and not men in general), I would think she was really racist.
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TFA is 8/08/08
Bphd is the strongest Hunter defender
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97: The European tourists here (Harlem's a much bigger tourism destination for Europeans than for Americans) don't seem to be very racist in who they ask for directions. Sometimes this pays off well, because there's lots of black people here who speak fluent French.
96: The La Brea Tar Pits have enough room for all of their bones entangled. Let's not waste the opportunity to baffle the future.
Who among our politicians wouldn't be better with a dire wolf skull for a head?
96: I knew a guy who knew the Edwards very well who had a similar description of Elizabeth Edwards. Crazy rage fits out of the public eye, etc. This was well before Rielle appeared on the scene.
A young woman on the bus just used Rosa Parks in a rousing, but unsuccessful, attempt to get her peers to stop at the seats she preferred.
103: A perfect metaphor for the current state of gender and race relations in America.
And it would work like a charm on me.
"Hey privileged white guy, you think you get to sit in the front third and force us to the back, just because you got on three stops ago? We ain't taking that racist patriarchal shit anymore"
Doesn't that kinda sum it up?
And I would get up and move, which also sums it up.
Nobody asked anybody to move. There were a whole bunch of empty seats.
Empty seats in the front and back of the bus.