Re: Yes, I would think so

1

How many bears fit in a canister?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 7:49 PM
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If someone threatened to "open up a can of bears on" me, I would definitely leave. That sounds dangerous.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 7:53 PM
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This post sort of has the feel of a bat-signal (bear-signal?) for me, but I don't have anything in particular to say about it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:00 PM
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You could go to UC Davis and get some bear spray. I'm sure they didn't use it all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:02 PM
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3: I suspect you're the secondary target after CCarp. A shaded relief topo of Glacier was among my $1 per map haul from the USGS during their recent sale.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:05 PM
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5: Maybe, but I believe neb is talking about Glacier Peak Wilderness Area in Washington State, not Glacier National Park.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:08 PM
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Yes, that's why I referred to the Glacier Peak Wilderness, rather than to Glacier National Park.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:11 PM
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Is there a functioning glacier in the not-park?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:15 PM
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From the link in 6:

Glacier Peak's highest summit is at 10,541 feet, with tattered ridges and summits draped with active glaciers.

Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:18 PM
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I'm guessing that, due to global warming, the glacier's half-empty.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:18 PM
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6, 7: Ah, right, embarrassing I've apparently read myself out today.

I have backpacked right near the northern edge of that, but not sure if we crossed into the wilderness itself or not. I do not recall worrying much about grizzlies, but that could have been merely ignorance and stupidity. Some daunting terrain, however.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:22 PM
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9: That's good as I hate inaccurately named wilderness areas. Ever since I learned that the Smokey Mountains were just covered in clouds, I've tried to get the renamed.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:25 PM
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I should probably clarify that I don't actually think this post was intended as a bat-signal to me or anyone else. The subject matter just hit interestingly close to home for me.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:26 PM
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Some friends of mine just stayed with me on the way to and from a backpacking trip in Glacier. On the way back, they reported having seen no bears but several moose. Then they reported that they actually were behind a moose on a trail for an hour, following it. It (he? dunno) repeatedly looked back at them. I did not feel that they were sufficiently nervous about all this, but since they survived, I guess it worked out okay.

I'd rather see a black bear than a moose, I think. Grizzly, not so much.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:26 PM
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(Glacier National Park, I meant in 14. In Montana.)


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:27 PM
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I'd rather see a black bear than a moose
If I could, I surely would


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:32 PM
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I didn't intend it as a bat-signal or anything, though it did occur to me that you might have the reaction you're having.

I found it somewhat interesting that the forest service person I spoke to didn't seem to be aware that some wilderness areas (including the wilderness area directly to her north) actually have policies about whether you can hang food or are required to use canisters. Likewise the guy at the ranger station to whom I first posed the question, whose response was "we don't know, ask the forest service.".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:33 PM
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Reading this post, I had the following thoughts: "Wait, Glacier is full of grizzlies. Wait, Glacier is a National Park. Huh? Glacier... Peak Wilderness? ... Oh." It was a very slow process.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:41 PM
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17,2: It's the Action Park of wilderness areas.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:42 PM
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I found it somewhat interesting that the forest service person I spoke to didn't seem to be aware that some wilderness areas (including the wilderness area directly to her north) actually have policies about whether you can hang food or are required to use canisters. Likewise the guy at the ranger station to whom I first posed the question, whose response was "we don't know, ask the forest service.".

That is interesting. I don't know about the Forest Service, but in the NPS each unit typically sets its own policies for stuff like this and they don't necessarily keep close tabs on what other units do. Sounds like the situation may be similar in the FS.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:44 PM
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"Fish and Wildlife sometimes sends problem bears to our land."

I like to imagine that these are the bears that hang out under the bleachers and smoke up.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 8:49 PM
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Relevant song.


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 9:01 PM
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the bears that hang out under the bleachers and smoke up

All walkin droopy, with their hair in their eyes and their pants too low.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 9:13 PM
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23: heeeey booboo, you don't fuckin got any bennies or anything do ya?


Posted by: Beefo Meaty | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 9:22 PM
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A bit of research reveals that there are indeed very few grizzlies in the North Cascades area. A grizzly bear has been photographed in the North Cascades National Park for the first time in more than four decades, confirming estimates of a small population of "ursus horribilis" in mountains of northern Washington.I saw estimates of 5-10 or 15-30.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 9:39 PM
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But most everything in the Cascades north of I-90 seems to be in The North Cascades Grizzly Bear Recovery Area.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 9:45 PM
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Where grizzlies go to come down.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 9:46 PM
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One of my kids is wandering around that area at the moment (but not backpacking). A couple of decent day hikes along US Rt. 2 are Wallace Falls and Barclay Lake, and Mt. Index along that road is the best mountain in the US under 6,000 feet (and Index itself had a decent little restaurant, at least in the '90s). But I assume you are up along the North Cacades Highway.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 9:56 PM
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Saw a couple of big damn grizzlies in Glacier today. A smaller sow, which we didn't see, was around us for a bit, crossi g the tral ahead, and then behind, and then wlking along the trail ahead of us. Saw a couple moose too: one just outside the park, near Babb.

it seems to me that you'd want a cannister where the trees (or bars) aren't high enough. Or where the black bears have become so habituated they are untying knots etc.


Posted by: CCarp | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 9:56 PM
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I saw a moose yesterday. My boss hosted a barbecue and I got lost on the way over. I turned onto what turned out to be the wrong street in the subdivision and there was a female moose, browsing by the side of the road. I didn't see any calves nearby, which made me nervous since I didn't want to accidentally get between a mother and calf, so I turned around pretty quick.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 10:00 PM
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it seems to me that you'd want a cannister where the trees (or bars) aren't high enough.

Yeah, the parks in Alaska mostly require them (and many provide them for free). That's in a context where it's mostly tundra with few trees and lots of grizzlies.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 10:01 PM
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My dog had a moose encounter in Idaho over the weekend. She's formed a new respect for the animal.


Posted by: CCarp | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 10:08 PM
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See you were off tramping around a great place while we were here saving America with incisive blog commentary on the Supremes? Sheesh.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 10:13 PM
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and also that they don't have many grizzlies, just black bears,

Well, grizzlies are fierce predators, obviously, but the potential dangers of (the supposedly 'harmless") black bear should not be underestimated. For example, a black bear might attempt to drag you out of an outhouse:

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/23/11836543-grabbed-from-the-throne-man-on-camping-trip-survives-outhouse-bear-attack?lite

In which case, you'd want yer buddy to come with a gun, eh? Danny, you coming to help me?!


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 10:14 PM
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Canadians have guns? I thought they responded to bear attacks by playing Tragically Hip songs until the bear gets bored and wanders away.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 10:38 PM
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That or the Emerson gambit.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 10:42 PM
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We've reached Glacial Peak Wilderness! From here on out, our glaciers will be producing an ever-diminishing amount of wilderness!


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 10:46 PM
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I would pay money to see neb go one to one with a bear. Black bear is fine, doesn't have to be a grizzly. I just want to see some philosopher v bear action and goddamn it I am willing to pay for it. Let's make this happen.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 10:55 PM
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I would pay money to see neb go one to one with a bear

Relevant.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 10:57 PM
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That thread has some good advice. To be clear, I'm not saying you have to fight the bear unarmed. In fact, you can take any nonfirearm weapon you want (except maybe a crossbow). Spear, atlatl, whatever. No tranq darts. Video is fine but if we can do this in some kind of forest clearing I will go in person.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 11:04 PM
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A cannon?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 11:09 PM
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Unrelatedly, did you know that Jean de Brunhoff's Babar and His Children (1937) contains the phrase "puts [his child] on his trunk and uses it like a cockhorse"? I found that out tonight.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 11:09 PM
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Cannon is OK if it's pre-1900 and you carry and load it yourself. But I think it's a firearm, no?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 11:11 PM
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I think a cannon technically counts as a firearm. On the other hand, I'm not sure the "no firearms" rule is really necessary. There's been a fair amount of debate about whether guns are actually any help against bears when wielded by people who are not already experienced at shooting bears.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 11:11 PM
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That's for grizzlies, though. Black bears may be a different matter.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 11:13 PM
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Oh, right, for some reason I was conflating "firearm" and what wikipedia seems to class as "small firearms", guns and rifles and such.

Hand grenade?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 06-28-12 11:16 PM
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47

I'd rather have a bear in front of me than a bear lobotomize me.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 12:05 AM
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48

I once fucked a couple of bears. Ohhh.. your talking about something else.


Posted by: Asteele | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 12:12 AM
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There are far better things we could talk neb into doing with a bear.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 12:13 AM
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50

Clearly I'm not here for the hunting.


Posted by: Asteele | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 12:13 AM
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51

Pwned by mere seconds. Should've seen that coming.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 12:14 AM
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52

Also relevant


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 12:43 AM
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The video in 52 is great.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 1:12 AM
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54

I Fucked a Bear for the FBI and Found God,


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 2:24 AM
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Thinking about Satoyama recently, and why urban fucks love the wilderness, "leaving behind nothing but footprints", but despise cultured or cultural landscapes, considering them offenses against nature and hikers.

I actually watched Miyazaki struggle to preserve one of the last hectares in Tokyo not steel and concrete.

Sure they love nature. But only to visit. Something about the Enlightenment liberal being a variety of Puritan, wild passions only in their proper place, to be visited on weekends and vacations to refresh the intellect.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 3:12 AM
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The "Begin Japanology" episode (jeez, these are relentlessly upbeat and positive, and too much about food) I saw on satoyama had an American expat living, studying, preserving and teaching in a satoyama east of Tokyo

Other American expats of multiple decades I've seen doing indigo dying and bonsai. Others.

I wouldn't live in Japan, or even visit.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 3:25 AM
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Harvey contra liberalism (in Cosmopolitanism), or how Democrats and Republicans reproduce each other in a dialectic

The blurring of the boundaries between anthropology and bistory achieved by the subaltern studies group in India might offer a friendlier terrain upon which to address these issues. Their insistence on seeking to reveal history from below, as it occurs in actual places through individual lives irrespective of class or culture, does indeed yield important insights. But while their handling of history shows a good deal of skill and depth, their treatment of spatiality and geography is peculiarly wooden. S. Deshpande, working in the contemporary version of this tradition, provides an instructive example. He investigates the relations betvveen globalization, conceptions of the Indian nation, and the construction of "Hindu-ness" (or "Hindutva") as a locus of distinctive identity and meaning across the Indian subcontinent. He sees the history of these relations as "closely and crucially intertwined with a geography," though it also has a class charac­ter. Nehru's secular developmental model depended, for example, upon a "privileged pan-Indian elite that could, by and large, afford to cut loose its regional moorings." It entailed a distinctive spatial logic (the history of which "has yet to be written") of "multi-dimensional relations of domina­tion established along the inter-regional, rural-urban, and city-megacity axes." A distinctive social geography was superimposed upon the Indian national space. But this spawned a variety of regional-ethnic oppositional movements. Hindutva, as invoked by the BIP Hindu nationalist party, exploits "the ideological vulnerability of the placeless universalism of the Nehruvian nation-space" and seeks "to rekindle a personalised com­mitment to particular places that are nevertheless embedded within the abstract social space of hindutva." Hindutva appeals to what Deshpande calls "the sedimented banalities of neighbourliness - the long-term, live­ in intimacy of residential relationships among persons and families and between them and their local environment." Deshpande's terms are in­teresting; it is the banality of mundane, everyday local experiences in the streets and residential areas that defines truths that acquire the status of "self-evident common sense." This forms the basis for a politics (including pathological expressions of intercommunal violence) that is far removed from Kant's cosmopolitanism. The "banalities" of local geographical loyal­ties disrupt the cosmopolitan ideal of Nehruvian developmentalism (just as spatialities disrupt the grand harmonies of neoclassical economic or rational choice theories).

|>


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 4:17 AM
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Fish and Wildlife sometimes sends problem bears to our land.

I like to imagine that these are the bears that hang out under the bleachers and smoke up.

These are your bears. These are your bears on drugs. Any questions?

Or where the black bears have become so habituated they are untying knots etc.

Is this the hepcat slang replacing "invisible spiders under the skin?"


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 5:53 AM
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There's been a fair amount of debate about whether guns are actually any help against bears when wielded by people who are not already experienced at shooting bears.

It's kind of like job hunting. You need experience to get a shot at a bear but how do you get experience if you've never had a shot at a bear?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:13 AM
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46.2 --let's not revive the Pistorius debate. No hand grenades.

The undercard could either be McManus v Wolves or Flippanter (in flight suit) v Eagle. I am working it out with the promoters.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:20 AM
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You're up early.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:21 AM
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I am dedicated to this.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:26 AM
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If you can have a troubled bank, you can have a troubled bear.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:32 AM
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I wouldn't live in Japan, or even visit.

What? Why not?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:45 AM
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I would visit Japan if somebody paid my expenses or at my own expense if neb were fighting a bear there.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:50 AM
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I would visit any place in which neb were fighting, fucking, or experiencing a profound spiritual awakening with a bear. Except North Korea. Or Wales.

55: Sure they love nature. But only to visit.

Probably to the good since if they decided to live there, "nature" would vanish at an even faster pace than it is already, right?


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:56 AM
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I would visit any place in which neb were fighting, fucking, or experiencing a profound spiritual awakening with a bear.

Simultaneously.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:57 AM
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I imagine in order to fuck the bear, you're going to have to fight it some.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:58 AM
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64: Don't like to travel. Have never flown.

"Japan" like every other place, is not the mountain spa, is not the farming village, is not the Ginza. It is all these things and a million more. It takes a lifetime to understand you don't even know your own neighborhood, hell, your own family.

c) But immediacy and direct experience can self-deceive you into thinking you know stuff, much more readily and arrogantly than second-hand and derivative materials. People read Heidegger and think they know Heidegger, all 100 who each knows that the other 99 don't understand jackshit about Heidegger.

d) So I read 10-20 H scholars, understanding that each is an arrogant fool, but aggregated there might be some knowledge to be found. And anyway, the true "Japan" "Heidegger" or "elephant" is in the accounts of the ten blind men. There is no "real" elephant. Sticking with secondary sources helps you understand that, is idealism repellent.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 7:02 AM
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There is no "real" elephant.

I thought that if the elephant was grey and smelled, it wasn't just my alcohol-induced hallucination


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 7:05 AM
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Except North Korea. Or Wales.

Racist.

How many of us need to pledge money/travel plans/first borns before neb gives into peer pressure and starts making bear fighting arrangements?


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 7:10 AM
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I regret not going to see Wales when I was in England. I like green, hilly places and I've heard Wales excels at that. (Coming from Nebraska, England was green and hilly, but still.)


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 7:12 AM
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So I read 10-20 H scholars, understanding that each is an arrogant fool, but aggregated there might be some knowledge to be found. And anyway, the true "Japan" "Heidegger" or "elephant" is in the accounts of the ten blind men. There is no "real" elephant. Sticking with secondary sources helps you understand that, is idealism repellent.

"I don't read novels. I prefer good literary criticism. That way you get both the novelists' ideas as well as the critics' thinking."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 7:20 AM
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The wikipedia pages of the novels will do that even quicker.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 7:24 AM
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73:Could be a long argument, but shit yeah, I'm gonna reread Axel's Castle before I reread Proust.

Or read Terkel's Working before I try becoming a stevedore. Or Ehrenreich.

Other people's experiences are more valuable and useful to me than my own.

Sue me.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 7:53 AM
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I ain't fighting no bear, asilon.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:18 AM
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Well, there's always the 'having a profound spiritual experience' option.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:23 AM
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Given your highly exacting style, I'm forced to assume the double negative is both deliberate and interpretable as a positive.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:24 AM
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I ain't fighting no bear, asilon

What about a koala? Not technically a bear but much more adorable than bears. Possible downside: apparently some crazy-high percentage of koalas is infected with Chlamydia.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:33 AM
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much more adorable than bears
Them's fighting words.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:36 AM
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FMK: Panda bears, polar bears, and koala bears.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:39 AM
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54->67


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:41 AM
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How many 5-year-olds could a panda take in a fight?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:43 AM
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The video in 52 is great

Yes it is. Check out part 2, where he builds and tests a bearproof suit.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 10:29 AM
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I see I missed the discussion, but must repeat the advice I received at Glacier National Park 30 yers ago from the rangers about potential bear contacts. The advice was to keep the car windows rolled up. This was not terribly useful advice for me, as I was traveling on bicycle at the time.

[I didn't see any bears, but it was so foggy and drizzly that I didn't even see the glaciers. And they were which were bigger back then. A miserable day.]


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 12:30 PM
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neb is afraid of bears.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 2:07 PM
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FACTS:

1. Bears are mammals.
2. Bears were worshipped ALL the time by peoples who lived in areas populated by bears.
3. The purpose of bears is to flip out and eat grubs, berries, and salmon.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 5:22 PM
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Do you think you're going to win this battle with "facts," neb? You will need the spirit of a bezerker and the courage of 20 men.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 5:32 PM
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I spelled berserker wrong because I have embraced their irrational spirit.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 5:33 PM
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Someone isn't aware of all internet traditions, I see.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:29 PM
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Oh my god! Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes are getting divorced! I don't know why I'm shocked, but I am!

Carry on.

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Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 6:46 PM
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Oh I just got it!


Posted by: ursyne | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 7:23 PM
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I meant to say. Bears pull the roofs off of Volkswagens ALL the time and don't think twice about it!

Yup I know a thing or two, carry on.


Posted by: ursyne | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 7:29 PM
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Not grub nor berry nor salmon be.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:03 PM
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Just like other mammals, bears can be mean or totally awesome!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:24 PM
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neb should start the Official Bear Webpage.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 06-29-12 8:25 PM
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I don't know why I'm shocked, but I am!

You must be the only person on earth with internet access who is. She wants sole custody of the child with the made up name that I can never remember; if I was divorcing a Scientologist, so would I.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 06-30-12 5:14 AM
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I actually wrote that ninja page. Well, I didn't but I could have. I just am trying to fight against your retreat into irony and internet memes. Irony and internet memes never killed a bear.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 06-30-12 1:54 PM
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But I don't want to kill a bear.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 06-30-12 2:20 PM
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Some men want to kill bears, some men have bears thrust upon them in forest clearings for sport.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 06-30-12 2:59 PM
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There are, in different parts of our country, chances to try so many various kinds of hunting, with rifle or with horse and hound, that it is nearly impossible for one man to have experience of them all. There are many hunts I long hoped to take, but never did and never shall; they must be left for men with more time, or for those whose homes are nearer to the hunting grounds. I have never seen a grisly roped by the riders of the plains, nor a black bear killed with the knife and hounds in the Southern canebrakes; though at one time I had for many years a standing invitation to witness this last feat on a plantation in Arkansas. The friend who gave it, an old backwoods planter, at one time lost almost all his hogs by the numerous bears who infested his neighborhood. He took a grimly humorous revenge each fall by doing his winter killing among the bears instead of among the hogs they had slain; for as the cold weather approached he regularly proceeded to lay in a stock of bear-bacon, scouring the canebrakes in a series of systematic hunts, bringing the quarry to bay with the help of a big pack of hard-fighting mongrels, and then killing it with his long, broad-bladed bowie.


Posted by: THEODORE ROOSEVELT, BELOVED PROGRESSIVE AND INSPIRATION FOR NEB | Link to this comment | 06-30-12 3:03 PM
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