Yeah, the bonus crazy here is that it's an anti-Muslim/anti-semitic double game.
Bacile told the Associated Press that he was a Jewish Israeli real estate developer living in California. He said that he raised $5m for the production of the film from "100 Jewish donors", an unusual claim echoing Protocols of the Elders of Zion-style fantasies.
What's weird is that I alone gave him $5 million. Those other 99 kikes are incredibly cheap!
On a side note, when people say they are real estate developers in California, they're usually lying, right? A guy I went to high school with found me on FB and he keeps posting the most transparent ego-trip things to his wall (Porsche, place at Tahoe). He says he's a real estate developer in California while his brother says he's coked-up.
He says he's a real estate developer in California while his brother says he's coked-up.
I don't believe those two things are mutually exclusive. At least not in the short term.
Let he who isn't coked-up cast the first stone.
6: Always with the reinforcing stereotypes.
5: Plus, with the suggestion from various analysts that the Benghazi attack was a) planned and coordinated, b) possibly an al Qaeda revenge attack masquerading as popular outrage/rioting, it becomes ... some .... multiple ... number of games.
If movies could kill, they probably will
In games without frontiers
Another example of the symbiotic relationship conservatives have with their foreign counterparts.
How does this thread have only 11 comments? That article is amazing. Basically, long time right-blogosphere stars likePam Geller (whom I know see has been officially designated as an operator of a hate site, thank goodness) helped a bunch of insane Copts to put together a hate film which is now (arguably) getting people killed and (certainly) causing serious damage in the world.
Pam Geller was one of Anders Breivik's influences.
Which of course is mentioned in the piece. Duh.
How does this thread have only 11 comments?
Titties.
This has got to be the most bizarre political story since Romani Prodi's seance. If it somehow has the effect of destroying the Arab Spring and throwing the US election to Romney, it will be a piece of political manipulation for the ages. Bismarck manipulating Napolean III seems trivial in comparison. Don DeLillo is probably already working on his novel about the whole thing.
I wrote this to a friend earlier today, Walt: "It would be divine justice if the Sam Bacile film begins, even indirectly, World War III. It's the perfect corollary to the Defenestration of Prague or the assassination of Franz Ferdinand in our fallen age."
Assassination of Franz? Maybe. Defenestration of Prague? Not by a long shot. If nobody goes out the window, I don't want to hear about it.
The Defenestration of Prague is totally misnamed. There are tons of windows in Prague.
20: Well, it's not a piece of political manipulation for the ages, though. Just a different take on the old Jyllands-Posten scam. (I think Romney tanked any possibility of its helping him when he tried the old "I'm disappointed in my librul opponent for channelling Neville Chamberlain" schtick. He just can't speak that chest-thumping language for The Base convincingly.)
FWIW One of Poland's biggest pop stars was recently convicted of 'insulting religious feelings' for saying that the authors of the Bible must have been 'fucked up on wine and smoking good weed'. It's a first offense so she's only getting fined c. $2500 but you can in theory be sent to prison for something like that in Poland. Plenty of people in Poland believe that the penalties for this 'crime' should be much tougher.
It apparently was a long planned terrorist attack that used the movie protesters as a cover:
That is an amazing article (the Guardian article in the OP, that is). As a piece of manipulation, though: what's their desired outcome? Not political per se -- not electoral politics, anyway, or not US electoral politics, except insofar as the Republican party is more friendly to the Islamophobic message -- but rather a campaign to convince as many people as possible that Muslims are vicious, violent, blah blah blah, in this case by inciting them to violence.
I'm just thinking out loud. It looks like they want to influence policy (regardless of who's in the White House). It's helpful to influence public opinion, toward that end.
I'm not saying anything particularly intelligent here; I think I just have trouble wrapping my head around people who are so convinced of the evil of a very large set of others that they'd go to such great lengths to convince the rest of us of it as well.
Echoing the above -- this is an amazing 'accomplishment'. But we're really doomed if anyone with Youtube access can start a war.
"The only winning move is not to upload."
27
I'm not saying anything particularly intelligent here; I think I just have trouble wrapping my head around people who are so convinced of the evil of a very large set of others that they'd go to such great lengths to convince the rest of us of it as well.
This seems strange as it happens all the time. For example Israel has been trying to influence US public opinion against Moslems for a long time.
For a US example look at the Occupy Wall Street propaganda against the rich.
I'm actually with JBS in 30. "An Inconvenient Truth" is trying to influence US public opinion against the evil of carbon emissions and global warming. I happen to agree, but it taps that same core of humanity.
I do find the facts of the Innocence of Muslims case staggering in how unbelievably destructive the motive and effect were.
That's funny, I think JBS' 30 is fucking idiotic, particularly in its comparison of OWS protestors to outrageous racist bigots. Everyone tries to influence others all the time; everyone does not do it with lies, ignorance and venom and in such a manner as is carefully calculated to cause the maximum possible amount of violence on all sides.
(It is sort of nice, however -- that's the wrong word -- to know that the film did not manage of its own account to motivate the attack.)
32
... carefully calculated ...
I doubt anything about the film was carefully calculated. Not that it matters much, this sort of thing is pretty unpredictable. Sometimes a small
stimulus can produce a large result but usually it doesn't. The film maker likely just got "lucky".
32 is right. 31 likewise sets up a false equivalence between a film trailer that sets forth the view that roughly 2 billion people in the world are fundamentally evil -- in the spawn of satan sense -- and Al Gore's message in "An Inconvenient Truth" that climate change (an 'externality', if you will) is a danger to us all, each and every one. The comparison is absurd.
Not to mention that the Innocence of Muslims crap essentially portrays Muslims as subhuman, animals. We've been here before. No amount of "But everyone does it!" is allowed in this context, because no, they don't.
35
...No amount of "But everyone does it!" is allowed in this context, because no, they don't.
Not saying everyone does it, just that it happens all the time.
Making your shock at the discovery that it is going on rather like that of Captain Renault.
James, I'll grant you this: a handful of rightwing Christianists have said that gays are responsible for a myriad of things, take your pick: the Holocaust, Hurricane Katrina, various droughts, um, probably 9-11, and I forget what else.
So no, I'm not shocked; I just can't understand that sort of thinking.
James, would you be willing to take back your comparison to Occupy Wall Street, or no?
To be half fair -- and I am being hated on all over the Guardian site for suggesting that this film should be banned -- this is really just the coptic equivalent of jihadi propaganda against the Jews. Not that youtube would leave that up -- nor should it. The trouble is that when the world is one theatre, there's always someone to react when you shout "fire"
This raises an important question for future historians: are Muslims the easiest people to troll in the history of the world? The only serious competition would be the Unfogged comment section when confronted by Shearer.
The sculptor of "My Sweet Lord" was followed around by bans and death threats IIRC. And he wasn't even trying to troll anybody.
Meh. Walt, I'll stop replying to Shearer when people stop saying that they see his point, which point is usually the most simple-minded form of thinking.
On trolling Muslims, maybe we need to envision the (anti-)Christian equivalent of this film, disseminated appropriately. Would Christians go bananas? Hard to say.
38: The trouble is that when the world is one theatre, there's always someone to react when you shout "fire"
There are some free speech questions at issue here, it seems to me.
when people say they are real estate developers in California, they're usually lying, right?
They are usually liars, even if they happen to be telling the truth about being real estate developers in California.
Lots of people buy a couple of investment flats off-plan and call themselves a "developer".
On trolling Muslims, maybe we need to envision the (anti-)Christian equivalent of this film, disseminated appropriately.
The musical The Book of Mormon is pretty insulting and Mormon Americans have responded to it like civilized people. True, the insult is "you people are fools" not "you people child-molesting Satan-spawn." But the response has also been light years away from murderous rioting.
The comparison is significant, because Trey Parker and Matt Stone were blocked by Comedy Central from portraying the Prophet on South Park, and mocking Muslim extremists the way they have mocked Mormons. This was the right move, too, because there simply is a small portion of the Muslim world who do not respond to insults in a civilized fashion. (And apparently, another portion that will for political gain, help goad those who hold their honor too dear.)
44: Well, right, one is not to portray the Prophet at all, much less in vain.
Are there are any comparable rules in Christianity? I suppose we could make a film in which God rapes Mary and chortles over his success, and then we show Jesus having sex with prostitutes, and they lick his feet before and after, oh, and I suppose the apostles could all have gay sex with each other, or if some of them are shepherds, with their sheep. We could segue to contemporary times, and show Catholic priests buggering 9-year-old boys back behind the altar. Bondage might be involved somewhere along the line.
Would that film, produced and disseminated from Iran, result in riots in Kansas? No, probably not, because our continent is not occupied by foreign military troops.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc7rBVUIHUg
Charley - please give a short explanation of what you're linking to.
There's an episode of South Park where Pope Benedict tells the boys that child molestation is actually a sacrament in the Catholic Church.
The play Corpus Cristi depicts Jesus and the apostles as gay men and has Our Lord and Savior officiate a gay marriage between two of his apostles.
I bet there are porno websites catering to people who fantasize about getting it on with the Lamb of God.
37
James, would you be willing to take back your comparison to Occupy Wall Street, or no?
Why should I? You professed to be shocked that people would produce propaganda against another group and that is what Occupy Wall Street does.
45: Christianity went through a very strictly iconoclastic period, but didn't stick with it.
I'm usually not very impressed by comparisons of the Muslim world to the Mormon world. The latter in general has found its way to a safe and prosperous niche in the American mainstream and does not live in the shadow of either poverty, communal conflict or foreign dominance. The same is true of the superficial veneer of civility of much of Christian America*. For much of the Muslim world, things are not like that. The astonishing thing is not that there's a trollable and violent minority of them, but that said minority is as small as it is. The issue of, say, printing cartoons of Muhammad with a bomb in his turban is a wee bit more fraught in an age where there have been mainstream European politicians advocating that Muslim immigrants be put in internment camps.
(* Which nevertheless beneath this veneer has spent decades enthusiastically cheerleading, voting for and investing in an endless wave of appalling and vicious violence against much of the Muslim world, from invasions to drone strikes to "Christian Zionist" support of the Israeli far right, that makes rioting look tame.)
47 -- A short video clip of Alabamans destroying Beatles records in '65.
Hey Castock, thanks for keeping it cool when I begin to lose my head.
this is really just the coptic equivalent of jihadi propaganda against the Jews. Not that youtube would leave that up -- nor should it
I don't know about the jihadi version, but I've run into straight up old school Nazi style anti-semitic shit on you tube. And one second of googling tells me that Jud Suss is up in its entirety.
and that is what Occupy Wall Street does.
JBS apparently believes there's no difference between the infamous WSJ 'Lucky Duckies' piece and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
55
JBS apparently believes there's no difference between the infamous WSJ 'Lucky Duckies' piece and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Saying they are both propaganda is not the same thing as saying that there is no difference between them.
55: What happens if you report it?
Of course, there is also the question of national jurisdictions. Youtube has apparently removed the Bacile video in Pakistan and another couple of countries; we know that it (caves into censorship|respects the laws) of China -- which we disapprove of -- Germany and France.
I don't think there is any tidy solution possible. But as a Brit, I think the aim of our policy should be to stay neutral in the Middle East, and our gestures should be tailored to that end.
This is kind of out of line with the mainstream Guardian opinion that we ought to be on the side of justice and equity always and everywhere. That appears to have implementation difficulties.