Re: Awkward professor will awkwardly humor students

1

Also, if your interlocutor appears overexcited, you may refer to them as a "drama llama". This may be limited to the middle-school crowd.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 11:51 AM
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if your conversation stalls out awkwardly, you can make some awkward hand gestures, like "awkward turtle"

Heebie, we're all excited by this new information, but ...


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 11:51 AM
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What I've learned from the kids is that you can turn a fist bump into either a turkey or a snail, so long as the other person holds their fist constant.

(Turkey: put your open-handed palm to the closed fist as the tail of the turkey.
Snail: duck under the fist and come up with other side with two fingers up for antennae.)

I do not limit these things to kids.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 11:53 AM
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I kind of thought I already knew awkward turtle, but didn't realize it was from here....AWKWARD.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 11:56 AM
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I don't understand awkward turtle (or palm tree, or balloon, come to think). Aggressively calling out awkwardness I've seen (Newt, very big with this one), but why turtle?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:08 PM
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What part of "AWKWARD TURTLE IS AWKWARD" don't you understand, LB?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:12 PM
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I tried for years to master the cricket sound some of my high school friends would make during awkward pauses to no avail. The turtle sounds easier.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:12 PM
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6: The second word.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:14 PM
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It's turtles all the way down.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:16 PM
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I get that aggressively pointing out awkwardness is supposed to be funny because it makes everyone feel self-conscious or transgressive or something. But I always want to argue that the passing moment really didn't merit the label, because it's natural for conversation to rise and fall, etc.

I never do, because I'm senior by 15 years to anyone doing this, and I don't WTBSALB.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:19 PM
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5: Maybe because of the way turtles hide their head behind their shell when they are embarrassed?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:28 PM
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Students resorting to 'awkward' hand gestures at silence or mistakes in conversation are efficiently redirecting attention from any case in which they don't know something. Hypocrite sembable, mon lecture-ees, mon fails.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:31 PM
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I think this is awesome. Go kids. I'm going to try to work this into my life.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:37 PM
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I dare you to do it in court.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:37 PM
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My kid just showed me the awkward turtle yesterday.


Posted by: Lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:43 PM
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You do realize it's twee.


Posted by: heebie-heebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:44 PM
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16 to 13.


Posted by: heebie-heebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:45 PM
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I don't understand this post at all. I guess that means I'm super old. :(


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:48 PM
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The post makes no sense at all but if you look up YouTube videos of "awkward turtle" all will be revealed.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:49 PM
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I mean, I spent a while trying to do the awkward turtle based on the written instructions, but YouTube made it all clear.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:50 PM
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Here's my variation: You turn awkward turtle on its side and then slap the other person in the face as hard as you can. AWKWARD TURTLE IS ANGRY!


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:52 PM
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This has been around for something like a decade. The kids who grew up doing this aren't even kids anymore.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:53 PM
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No one will call that twee.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:53 PM
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Apparently I missed the space shuttle flying by my window while learning the awkward turtle so there's that.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:54 PM
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The Halford Variation has genuine comic potential.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:55 PM
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I stand with jms.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:56 PM
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I'm finding the youtube comments instructive:


no, anyone who doesn't do this isn't lame, people who do this without knowing how to do the awkward turtle is lame. (thumbs move in the opposite direction hence awkward.)

and
Its not the actually turtle movement that makes it awkward, Its when you do the awkward tutle that make it awkward. You are suppose to do it at an awkard or silent moment


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 12:57 PM
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22
This has been around for something like a decade. The kids who grew up doing this aren't even kids anymore.

Define "this." Self-effacingly pointing out awkward moments? Agreed, that sounds normal. But complicated hand gestures for it? That doesn't.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 1:05 PM
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By "from the kids", do you mean from your college students, or from your preschoolers?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 1:06 PM
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Define "this."

The hand gesture known as the "awkward turtle".

Although, the first urbandictionary definition that's in accord with current usage is dated 2005, so maybe it hasn't quite been a decade.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 1:08 PM
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Kids today are a bunch of little bitches.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 1:27 PM
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For the record, the thing I was shown doesn't quite match the YouTube video I just watched. I was shown hands clenched, thumb out, not hands flat.


Posted by: heebie-heebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 3:01 PM
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Aaaaaawwwwwwwkkkkkkkkwwwwwwaaaaaaaarrrd.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 3:12 PM
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||

Hey, some of you people live in Chicago? Could I ask a favour for a child? Please? 5 years ago, when she was 5, my friend's daughter emailed the Straight Dope website, asking about how many ice cubes it would take to extinguish the sun. They've just answered her. It's on their website, but it's also apparently in this week's (21 Sept) column in the Chicago READER. If anyone could buy a copy and post it to me I'd be ever so grateful, and would send you any English newspaper (or anything else) you might fancy. Thank you so much.

|>


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 4:26 PM
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Speaking of awkward, I just had a pretty good snootful of that Bushmills 10 with my office mate who's heading for Ireland in the morning, and now the wife is coming to get me for a mountain bike ride.

I won't be making any hand gestures, or whatever it is the kids are doing these days.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 4:27 PM
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34: I read that this morning. (On the website)


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 4:33 PM
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Cool!


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 4:44 PM
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By the way, 24 is probably the best thing that happened today. I think Halford is the only person in LA who didn't see the shuttle.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 4:46 PM
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if your interlocutor appears overexcited, you may refer to them as a "drama llama"

Please tell me there is some sort of gesture that accompanies "drama llama."


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 5:43 PM
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No gesture. Spitting.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 5:58 PM
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10: I'm senior by 15 years to anyone doing this

Oh. I thought you were talking about interactions with little kids. These are college students, eh? (I admit I didn't know why you were "Professor" in that context, thought you were helping out in Hawaii's kindergarten or something.)

oops. So people do that.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:06 PM
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38 -- It does seem to have been pretty damn cool. Here are Moby's (no, not that one, the other Moby) photos of the space shuttle flying over his house.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:26 PM
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I have very thick hair for a man my age, so I don't feel that bad that I don't have a space shuttle photo.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:28 PM
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39: They flutter their eyelashes and blow wonderful air kisses.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:31 PM
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I admit I didn't know why you were "Professor" in that context

heebie posts from Gilligan's Island.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:44 PM
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(no, not that one, the other Moby)

I knew whales were smart, but I hadn't realized they had cameras now.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:44 PM
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47

The shuttle thing does sound cool...if you hate trees.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:47 PM
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48

They are going to plant DOUBLE THE TREES!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:48 PM
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My next door neighbor is (I think) in charge of the trees for trees trade thing.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:51 PM
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You know, I've seen a llama hand gesture in other middle-school contexts (pinky and forefinger straight up for ears, second and third fingers forward together for a snout), but I don't know that it's actually used for accusations of drama-llamadom.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:51 PM
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34: The Reader is free, and although I no longer live in Chicago, someone ought to be able to grab a copy. I will ask CA's parents.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:52 PM
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49: I've heard good things about working in the stem-related fields.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 6:53 PM
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I actually do kind of hate trees. (You can take the boy out of the desert...)


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:01 PM
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I'm still marveling that people do this past middle school!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:02 PM
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Oh, Teo.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:04 PM
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Okay, so Teo hates birds and trees. Therefore he moves to Alaska?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:10 PM
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I am informed by my consultant that the drama llama gesture is two llamas as described above, one for each hand, touching noses.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:10 PM
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what does one do with the thumbs while drama-llaming?


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:12 PM
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56: He's still looking for work above the tree line.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:13 PM
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57: that is oddly similar to the ASL for "fuck". You should let your consultant know.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:14 PM
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I might be totally wrong on the ASL and am hoping to be corrected, but anyhow let him know.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:14 PM
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58: thumbs are lower jaw, presumably?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:15 PM
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59: And the South Pole is out because of the penguins.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:16 PM
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62: That's right.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:17 PM
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I don't know if I should ask why Teo hates trees. They provide too much shade! They're just so messy. Or, at a guess, it feels like they're crowding things: it's hard to see.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:23 PM
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Or, at a guess, it feels like they're crowding things: it's hard to see.

Yeah, mostly this.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:24 PM
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He's still looking for work above the tree line.

I probably could have found it, too. But I think this is a better job for me than any tundra-based one would have been, despite the boreal forest.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:26 PM
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And I don't really hate trees that much. They burn well, for one thing.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:28 PM
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I don't hate birds at all. I just fear them.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:29 PM
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Trees are where birds hide when they're not hunting people.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:30 PM
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At least up North, there isn't much underbrush, and the trees are scraggly. Out East, the solid wall of green and the creeping Kudzu canget overpowering to me at times.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:30 PM
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Exactly!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:31 PM
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I'm kind of with Teo. Or, I like some trees around. A few oaks here and there. That's cool. Gigantic ass Sequoias are sweet. But boring new-growth forest like you see driving through the East is lame, especially if it's flat.

I like birds, though. They're dinosaurs.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:31 PM
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I'm kind of with Teo. Or, I like some trees around. A few oaks here and there. That's cool. Gigantic ass Sequoias are sweet. But boring new-growth forest like you see driving through the East is lame, especially if it's flat.

I like birds, though. They're dinosaurs.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:31 PM
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72 to both 70 and 71.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:31 PM
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71: Creeping kudzu is not a feature of all, even most, places in the east, not by a long shot.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:40 PM
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I guess that's why the shuttle has been featured in promos for local news lately.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:52 PM
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I just bought a sixpack of Moose Drool, in honor of Charley.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 7:57 PM
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I feel badly that some hate trees, or, apparently, forests in general. But people are free to harbor their own tastes; there's plenty of room on the planet. Kudzu, though, is an invasive species which kills the native plant life.

When traveling the country, I don't know whether I was more horrified by kudzu or by clear-cutting.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:15 PM
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I'm amused at how seriously everyone is taking my crazy opinions about trees.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:18 PM
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80: the trees aren't amused, teo.

Look at them. Look at them droop.

AWKWARD TREES.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:19 PM
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Okay, so not everyone is taking this seriously.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:21 PM
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9: I got to hear some presumably big deal physics prof say "it's turtles all the way down" to Philip Glass the other night. It was sort of a dull evening of blowsy pontification otherwise, and at one point the roof started leaking, but I perked right up for that part.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:24 PM
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In other news, I guess trying to ride an escalator handrail is sort of the urban equivalent of skiing out of a helicopter.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:25 PM
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85

Respect the trees, Teo! I am not kidding! It bothers me!

Anyway, yeah, tastes differ.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:25 PM
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84: well I guess they think he may have been drinking but I for one certainly hope not.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:27 PM
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I'm loving the cognitive dissonance in parsimon's recent comments. It's like a metaphor for the liberal condition.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:28 PM
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83: What's that? Why was Philip Glass there?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:28 PM
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These trees are the right height.


Posted by: W. Mitt Romney | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:28 PM
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It was incredibly off-putting moving from New England, a well-treed (the right height and everything!) region, to Oklahoma. California gets it just right, though, so all's well now.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:29 PM
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Fuck you, Willard.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:30 PM
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92

Willard also likes clouds.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:31 PM
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I guess they think he may have been drinking but I for one certainly hope not.

"He died the way he lived: taking insane risks for no apparent reason."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:31 PM
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87: It's intentional.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:34 PM
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Well that's less fun.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:36 PM
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OT: The one thing I haven't figured out about Columbo is, how come it's always the mega-rich committing the crimes? Does Lt. Columbo just live in a jurisdiction with a disproportionately high number of sociopath one-percenters (but I repeat myself), or are the mega-rich everywhere constantly murdering each other in twisted schemes?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:42 PM
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71 It's not just the East that has underbrush. I remember backpacking in the Cascades and the first time we went through what the guidebook referred to as 'lush brush'. Fucking hell.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:43 PM
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Fucking underbrush. What is it good for, I ask you?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:50 PM
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Clearing.


Posted by: W | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:53 PM
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AWKWARD TREES

Awk-wood.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 8:54 PM
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Bare trees.


Posted by: Danny Kirwan | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 9:29 PM
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102

These trees are the right height.

And Ann drives a, a couple of Cadillacs, actually.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09-21-12 9:45 PM
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51 - oudemia, thanks, but shouldn't need it now. After telling her yesterday they she could buy a back copy for $5 and pay for postage and would have to pay by a cheque from a US account, they then changed their minds and said don't worry, we'll just send you one.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 1:40 AM
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In my circles drama llama is just one llama, not two. Sometimes it marches in, and you do a little galloping sideways motion. The adults who work at the summer math program I'm at have all picked it up from the kids, so I'd forgotten that this wasn't a normal adult thing.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 1:45 AM
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or are the mega-rich everywhere constantly murdering each other in twisted schemes?

Need you ask?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 8:54 AM
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I suppose if you want an in-universe explanation*, it could be that Columbo was assigned all the LA rich-person-murder cases, of which there were 7-8 a year at most, and the cases in between weren't filmed.

* Otherwise: "Sorry, Lieutenant, I can't walk through hypotheticals with you for an hour, there's this thing I have called a job."


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 8:59 AM
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I figured people have been talking about Columbo because it must be on Netflix on demand and I checked and hey, it is. Even better, as much Rockford Files as I can handle. That Apple TV is a wonderful thing.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 9:24 AM
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83 9: I got to hear some presumably big deal physics prof say "it's turtles all the way down" to Philip Glass the other night.

Now who would that have been?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 10:07 AM
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Oh, I see. Yes. Fairly big deal, especially in the 80s.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 10:23 AM
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110: Ssshhh I was letting everyone assume it was you. His bio says he's a famous cosmologist or something and here I didn't even know U of C had a beauty school. Must be south of the Midway.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 10:57 AM
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They provide too much shade! [...] Or, at a guess, it feels like they're crowding things: it's hard to see.

Put me in mind of the aria from Semele that gives the hilarious image "trees where you sit, shall crowd into a shade." I can never hear it without picturing cartoonish (possibly awkward) trees tiptoeing across a lawn after the person addressed and leaning together solicitously.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 10:57 AM
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But why was Philip Glass there?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 11:11 AM
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But why was Philip Glass there?

Given physics prof + Philip Glass + a dull evening of blowsy pontification, I'm guessing it was something to do with the current revival of Einstein on the Beach.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 11:20 AM
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Close ital before 113.2, please.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 11:21 AM
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Yeah, U of C event in conjunction with revival of the Robert Wilson production of Einstein on the Beach. To which I am going in four hours. I love this shit but am glad I got a good night's sleep. "Hypnotic" is a word that gets applied to this 4.5-hour work without intermissions. I think "hypnotic" is also the class of drugs including Ambien.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 11:38 AM
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Per Miss Potter's The Tale of the Flopsy Bunnies, one suggests "soporific."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 12:20 PM
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I don't like trees when they prevent me from seeing the horizon. If there are hills or mountains (that let you climb above the forest), or large bodies of water (that you can look across), then trees are okay! Although I do still feel slightly uncomfortable when in the forest, being outnumbered so.


Posted by: YK | Link to this comment | 09-22-12 3:25 PM
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||

In an impromptu meetup, tonight the male companion of an unfogged commenter stopped to interrogate me a bit wondering if I'd brutalized the bloody hobo seated in front of me. "Is that man all right?" I reply that he'll be fine and he, wondering if we fucked this guy up but not wanting to ask outright, asks "What happened to him?" I tell him he got pushed down by his girlfriend and hit his face. He asked if that was really what happened and there's a chance I sounded a bit irritated when I asked him if he thought I was making it up. Pretty funny though. I would have gone over to talk but the bloody transient sitting down had just made a point of telling me a couple times that he could kick my ass and so I kind of needed to stay right there and make sure his drunk ass stayed on the ground. As a general rule though, if the bloody guy isn't wearing handcuffs then it's a pretty safe bet we aren't the cause of his injuries.

|>


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-23-12 12:27 AM
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119

So how did you figure out the Unfogged connection?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-23-12 12:33 AM
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He was sadly muttering to himself about his companion's inexplicable Mutumbo fantasies.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09-23-12 12:39 AM
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We had a small meetup when Kraab was in town back in April.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-23-12 12:41 AM
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Awkward!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-23-12 12:49 AM
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I guess "Awkward meetup is awkward!" would be more in line with how The Kids These Days would put it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-23-12 12:50 AM
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The timing was awesome. I recognized her before she saw me and winked when she looked at me. Right as the "oh hai..." starts that's when he starts questioning me. God I wish I had video of it.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-23-12 12:59 AM
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60: no, the ASL verb "fuck" has index and middle finger extended. There is a sign with index and pinky extended that means "bullshit" but it's one-handed.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-23-12 7:18 AM
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125: I think I was mostly riffing on the "fingers extended and two hands touching each other" which, had I any knowledge of ASL outside of one vaguely naughty verb, would likely describe a truly vast array of signs.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-23-12 7:25 AM
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I'm still marveling that people do this past middle school!

I had to keep reminding myself that heebie's "kids" are actually adults with votes and everything. I feel like Laurence in Office Space.

"Hey, ajay, when you were at university, did anyone ever make this gesture and say "awkward turtle is awkward" to you in a pause in the conversation?"

"No. ...No, man! Shit, I believe you'd get your ass kicked be the laughing stock of the Junior Common Room saying something like that, man."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09-24-12 2:32 AM
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I had to keep reminding myself that heebie's "kids" are actually adults with votesguns and everything.

She does teach in Texas.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-24-12 4:20 AM
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There is a sign with index and pinky extended that means "bullshit" but it's one-handed.

I'll be damned. We did that when I was a kid, but I always assumed it was something idiosyncratic to my neighborhood or school or something, since I'd never seen it anywhere else.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-24-12 5:33 AM
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I think it is a sign that maybe originated as a hearing gesture and got borrowed into ASL.

You can do lots of morphologically interesting things with it*, like using the index-and-pinky handshape to make the sign "write" to mean "write a bunch of bullshit".

*in a slangy and informal but semantically transparent way.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 09-24-12 9:36 AM
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