Re: Moms and bombs

1

That second paragraph sounds like you're associating PTSD with stay-at-home-moms, the way it's written.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 2:29 PM
horizontal rule
2

Have you ever spent a full day with my kids? Well, HAVE YOU?


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 2:31 PM
horizontal rule
3

Not as far as you know.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 2:32 PM
horizontal rule
4

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,


Posted by: Rudyard Kipling | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 2:36 PM
horizontal rule
5

Why do you hate the troops, heebie?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 2:36 PM
horizontal rule
6

For God's sake, VW, haven't you figured it out yet? We are your kids.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 2:37 PM
horizontal rule
7

We're also your parents. It's kind of complicated.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 2:52 PM
horizontal rule
8

Also, you are your own grandpa.


Posted by: L. | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 2:54 PM
horizontal rule
9

True, it's easier and cheaper to give them some almost illegible and misspelled cardboard signs and let them beg at busy L.A. intersections.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 2:54 PM
horizontal rule
10

I think maybe the VA's efforts aren't being fairly considered here. It's hardly perfect or available to all who need it, but "nothing meaningful" is too far.

Disclosure: I may not be entirely neutral on this due to various relationships.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 2:59 PM
horizontal rule
11

1

That second paragraph sounds like you're associating PTSD with stay-at-home-moms, the way it's written.

I agree with this. Coping with a crying child may be stressful but it isn't really in the same league as seeing your buddy get his legs blown off by an IED.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:04 PM
horizontal rule
12

10

I think maybe the VA's efforts aren't being fairly considered here. It's hardly perfect or available to all who need it, but "nothing meaningful" is too far.

And with this. Veterans also have a significant advantage when seeking many forms of government employment.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:07 PM
horizontal rule
13

I made a funny and LC and JBS both took it earnestly!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:07 PM
horizontal rule
14

I am actually a big fan of the VA and don't mean to shit on it.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:07 PM
horizontal rule
15

1: So you're saying we can't trust the FPPs to be straight with us? After all this time?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:08 PM
horizontal rule
16

I thought it was just a stylistic quirk, actually. I didn't think you were seriously saying that SAHM's have PTSD.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:09 PM
horizontal rule
17

11) Heebie is into math, can't expect her to do words well too.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:11 PM
horizontal rule
18

14: They use the worst tp ever so I can see why.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:14 PM
horizontal rule
19

15: Indeed, there is something rather queer about those FPPs.

Still, I'm down with FPP. (Yeah, you know me...)


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:15 PM
horizontal rule
20

(Don't tell me everyone's forgotten that song...)


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:22 PM
horizontal rule
21

Heebie, if someone were to ask you, "What's the point of this post?" would you be able to explain it, hypothetically speaking?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:26 PM
horizontal rule
22

The original post is entirely correct.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:27 PM
horizontal rule
23

I LIKE this post.


Posted by: Facebooker | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:41 PM
horizontal rule
24

This is off-topic, but for the people who actually want Obama to win and aren't just pretending to want that, how will you react if Romney wins and the electronic tallies don't match up with the exit polls? Or if a bunch of votes keep disappearing from high population precincts?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:50 PM
horizontal rule
25

I agree with this. Coping with a crying child may be stressful but it isn't really in the same league as seeing your buddy get his legs blown off by an IED.


"I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe; attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion; I've watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those... moments... will be lost... in time, like... tears... in rain."


Posted by: Roy Batty | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 3:53 PM
horizontal rule
26

Nurses?

And I thought the PTSD thing was funny.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 4:03 PM
horizontal rule
27

Not that nurses have PTSD, just that they are lauded as angels and aren't exactly supported by this government.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 4:07 PM
horizontal rule
28

27: Nurses in the neonatal ICU used to burn out pretty quickly. Too much emotional investment, too much death. I don't recall any long-term follow-ups though.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 4:15 PM
horizontal rule
29

24:how will you react if Romney wins and the electronic tallies don't match up with the exit polls?

Cry, cry, masturbate, cry.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 4:20 PM
horizontal rule
30

mcmanus, wouldn't you just masturbate? that sounds like the best possible outcome for you.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 4:24 PM
horizontal rule
31

Nurses?

Teachers?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 5:45 PM
horizontal rule
32

Clowns?


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 5:51 PM
horizontal rule
33

Fucking foster parents, yo! And there are some PTSD-inducing bits at times, but I don't talk about them much.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 5:53 PM
horizontal rule
34

Teachers?

No no, teachers are bad guys now. Unions and all that.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 5:55 PM
horizontal rule
35

Governor Etch-a-Sketch fake-loves teachers to bits now. So there must be some proportion of society that still lionizes them.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 6:00 PM
horizontal rule
36

Speaking of moms, my sister just got a foster-to-adopt foster child! Like, tonight! How exciting! I hope it works out, and I will finally be a real uncle. (Obviously, if by some chance the baby's biological family can work it out to provide her with a good home instead, then that would probably be the optimal outcome, but failing that, I think my sister will be a good mother.)


Posted by: William Howard Taft | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 6:10 PM
horizontal rule
37

34: Yeah, I was considering that (and there are pretty strong nurses' unions too, which are vilified in some quarters), but per 35, I'm not sure the winds are blowing fully in that direction. A lot of people are still given pause.

The OP is weird to me regarding SAHMs insofar as those of them who are valorized tend to be white UMC types -- see Ann Romney, of course -- while those who really are economically vulnerable tend to be framed as 'those people' in one way or another. I'm not sure that distinction holds for nurses or teachers, much less soldiers.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 6:12 PM
horizontal rule
38

36: Good luck to her. Also, your great-grandson is very thin, considering.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 6:18 PM
horizontal rule
39

36: Please feel free to email motherissues at gmail if you/they have general questions or need support, recommended secret facebook groups, etc.

We are two years and two days post-Mara's entrance into our home and it is of course the best thing ever. We just had birthday dinner with her dad, will have her siblings to her birthday party Saturday, and will see her mom Sunday, possibly at the restaurant where her dad cooks. Her parents were not particularly adept at parenting but are pleasant people and I'm so glad they're able to be an ongoing part of her life. The way her eyes lit up when we surprised her with her dad tonight was just awesome.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 6:33 PM
horizontal rule
40

36 cont'd: regardless of the baby's biological family's fitness, being in a loving and accepting foster home is such a good thing and I'm so glad to hear that your sister is playing that role. Babies need love and love and love! And other stuff, like at least marginally sober caregivers who actually attend to their medical and other neds, but definitely love.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 6:35 PM
horizontal rule
41

O hei, going back to soldiers for a sec: some of you might find this interesting.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 1-12 6:37 PM
horizontal rule
42

Anyway, how do I get some of this excessive praise? In this country I would say it's seen as an indulgence not to work after your youngest is about 1.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 4:35 AM
horizontal rule
43

42: Move to a swing state in the US. You will get praised effusively by powerful men conspiring to make your life objectively worse if they get elected. Empowerment.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 4:41 AM
horizontal rule
44

41. That is appalling and alarming. It is also the inevitable outcome of the American centre/left marching in lockstep with Dick Cheney since 1968 on the question of "having other priorities at the time".


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 5:05 AM
horizontal rule
45

Was the American left prior to 1968 full of people enthusiastic about joining the Army? Or are you referring to the end of conscription?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 5:38 AM
horizontal rule
46

44: Sort of seems to me more like the inevitable outcome of attempting to deploy an army on the all-volunteer model in an obviously crazy war for which only the most desperate would volunteer.

But I agree that it's appalling and alarming. That the supremacist right -- which is still hard at work on out-doing 911 -- essentially got a ton of combat training in Iraq and Afghanistan on the government dime is particularly messed up.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 5:52 AM
horizontal rule
47

I agree with 46.1. Rowan was very keen on joining the military to give his life meaning or something. I was strongly opposed since he already has complex PTSD and has spent his whole life having much less autonomy than the average kid. But I'm afraid they'd still take him.

In other kid news, Colton and his girlfriend just broke up. I'll see how he lands, but he may be ready for his money soon.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 6:03 AM
horizontal rule
48

45. Mainly the latter. There's always a danger/likelihood that a volunteer army will be forced to recruit disproportionately from the layers that Karl Marx defined as the Lumpenproletariat, and that that will impact on its morale and effectiveness. I don't know why people think the problem is bigger in America that elsewhere, but it seems likely that it has to do with the monstrous size of the US forces but also with the proportion of working class/lower middle class people who think joining up is a viable career option is lower.

A friend of mine who is a commercial business analyst was delighted when his son joined the RAF; another who is an executive with the BBC, encouraged his daughter to join the Navy. But the feeling I get from places like this, is that on the rare occasions when somebody's nearest and dearest are thinking of enlisting the default response is "Oh shit, what can I do to stop this?"

The British forces aren't at all a shining counterexample to the stuff in that article, but they do seem to be less infected. and I suspect that's part of the reason.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 6:05 AM
horizontal rule
49

My family would have been happy if I'd joined the Navy.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 6:09 AM
horizontal rule
50

45: Well, I don't think it was seen as a left/right thing. My father enlisted in 1960 or so for no particular reason other than that he'd dropped out of college and it was an ordinary thing to do for middle class men, and he was as left then as he's been all my life (which is, very very left by US standards, fairly reasonably left by any standards). I don't know that his presence in the US armed forces was particularly a benefit to them, but he enjoyed himself.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 6:11 AM
horizontal rule
51

And of course it's not nearly as ordinary a thing to do now. I'm pleased that my niece joined the Marines, but mostly because I couldn't figure out how else she was going to get out of running a Pizza Hut in a horrible little town in the middle of nowhere -- she'd rejected college, and I didn't have any better ideas for her that she was going to go along with.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 6:13 AM
horizontal rule
52

48.2: when somebody's nearest and dearest are thinking of enlisting the default response is "Oh shit, what can I do to stop this?"

Only a common response when the troops they're enlisting in are deployed in crazy places on visibly hopeless missions, I think. That's why it's the Iraq mission specifically that broke the American model. (Which gets into the much larger problem of the post-WWII military industrial complex's endless and largely fruitless quest to manufacture wars it can pass off as worthwhile...)


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 6:14 AM
horizontal rule
53

Vietnam must have started a few cracks.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 11:05 AM
horizontal rule
54

That's why it's the Iraq mission specifically that broke the American model.

While that is probably true I will say that in my particular band of brothers there were very few of us that didn't think we would be back after Desert Storm. Real sense of unfinished business.


Posted by: Tasseled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 12:35 PM
horizontal rule
55

Vietnam must have started a few cracks.

We still had a draft then. Nixon specifically eliminated the draft so that well-off kids wouldn't care about the war enough to protest it anymore.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 12:38 PM
horizontal rule
56

Real sense of unfinished business.

Which after all was a form of silliness that a whole bipartisan sector of American politics was dedicated to promoting. There's always somebody who won't know when to stop. But quite an tragedy that it was precisely this silliness that would top off the prudent, successful and politically canny Desert Storm with the perverted, humiliating, catastrophic farce of the Iraq War.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 1:18 PM
horizontal rule
57

Thank goodness we now have some closure.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 1:28 PM
horizontal rule
58

but it seems likely that it has to do with the monstrous size of the US forces

The US military was a good third larger thirty years ago. Over the same period the population has grown by close to a third and it's become more common for women to be in the military. Somehow they managed.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 1:30 PM
horizontal rule
59

We still had a draft then. Nixon specifically eliminated the draft so that well-off kids wouldn't care about the war enough to protest it anymore.

Sounds like a fairly wide "Oh shit, what can I do to stop this?"-style crack.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11- 2-12 4:01 PM
horizontal rule