Who would forge an Old Navy sweater?!
Hipsters. They wear them while drinking fake PBR.
I don't understand the business model. Are they stealing the sweatshirts or buying them for enough less than $3 that they can pay for the costs of operating a business? I'd think that making a fake label, taking a photo, listing it, and packing it would be more than $3 worth of effort. (I'm assuming shipping was extra.)
Are you sure it's not a real Old Navy sweater that's made extra-poorly/
I just checked PayPal - it came to $11 with shipping, so maybe the sweater was more like $5 or $6.
2: Presumably via low quality, high volume, and cheap labor. Seems plausible to me.
Perhaps high-end labels are more heavily scrutinized by buyers.
3: That is indeed a possibility. Fortunately the sweater-part is totally fine, as everyone at the meet-up last night will enthusiastically verify.
Although covered in Parmesan popcorn dust, as everyone from the meet-up will enthusiastically verify.
5: So somebody is using ebay to run a factory warehouse store? (I really have no idea what is on ebay.)
Or what Old Navy sells.
Or what a sweater is.
I really have no idea what is on ebay.
I don't think anybody has a good idea about all the things that are on ebay.
9: Used sailor suits, of course.
10: Someone that perspires copiously.
Okay, this post is freaking me out. Two days ago, I was thinking, "Old Navy is so shitty, you never hear of anyone making an Old Navy knock-off."
Is the external world a product of my imagination? And if so, why does it suck so much?
I'm wondering why they bother to put a label on at all. It's a $5 sweater. It's going to be shitty whatever the label is.
I've seen clothes with tags purposefully cut in half, and always assumed it was like tearing the cover of a paperback off, so they couldn't be resold as new. Maybe it was a real Old Navy sweater that didn't sell, the store defaced the tag and discarded it in a load of unsold goods, and the reseller reattached tags.
Yes. Because you spent too much time on dystopian sci-fi.
18 to 15.
I've seen clothes with tags purposefully cut in half
Maybe it's because I'm not going to walk around being, like, a billboard for Old Navy, man.
I shudder to imagine the kind of worker's hell that can produce a three-dollar sweater.
(I have actually painstakingly removed prominent labels on the outside of some of my clothes for more or less that exact reason.)
as everyone at the meet-up last night will enthusiastically verify
Trying to replace "the lurkers support me in email" in the lexicon?
Are we certain that this isn't just a sweater that someone's had for a while and wanted to get rid of?
21 was my first thought. Making a sweater takes time, even with machines.
SPOILER: the preemie that has an 80% chance of death or major deformity lives.
That sounds callous. The article really is heart-rending and terrifying--but it probably wouldn't have been written if it had ended the more likely way.
I wonder whether this will post. I got s message a few times saying that I wasn't allowed to post.
Apparently, the answer is yes.
26- Wow, what are the chances of that?
I had the wrong meaning of forged in my head, and I thought that was a great deal, just the metal in the sweater must be worth way more than $3. Maybe that's why shipping was expensive.
28: That's an undirected error message -- I have no idea what it is, but I've gotten it a number of times, and so have other people who've mentioned it.
It's a $5 sweater. It's going to be shitty whatever the label is.
I've gotten 100% merino sweaters on eBay for less than that. Finding the random seller who has decided to clean out her closet, doesn't have any eBay sales history, and doesn't set a minimum bid can work out really well occasionally.
I read that article the other night when Becks linked it. It was shocking to realize that she gave birth to the kid basically only a month further along than I am now. I wondered how old the woman was - they mentioned the husband's approximate age, but not hers.
Didn't they mention that the pregnancy was the result of serious fertility treatments, or am I mixing it up with something else I read?
Early prematurity was the one thing that really scared me, pregnant. Miscarriage wasn't something I worried about, but from five months to seven (or whatever the window is from plausibly survivable to no big deal -- I used to know) I was very nervous.
It was shocking to realize that she gave birth to the kid basically only a month further along than I am now.
Yeah, boy. We have friends whose kid (now 5) was a very early preemie -- there was a photo of him wearing her wedding ring as an oversized bracelet -- and boy did I think about that timing a lot as I proceeded through my pregnancy with Jane.
Didn't they mention that the pregnancy was the result of serious fertility treatments, or am I mixing it up with something else I read?
They did- I think several failed rounds of IVF, and then one that succeeded with a donor egg.
My god that article was stressful.
34. I was curious too, so I looked her up. She's 38, so probably around 36 at the time of delivery.
36: The timeline is a little frightening from my perspective. Going from "there's nothing we can do" to "there are things we can do but now there are decisions to make that might not work" is a little nerve-wracking.
"there are things we can do but now there are decisions to make that might not work"
Or that might work to keep the baby alive, but won't be able to keep it from being profoundly disabled.
Right, I'm reading "might not work" broadly.
That was one of the things that profoundly bothered me about the piece, in the end. She goes through all these stages during which the potential costs of these decisions are considered and agonized over, but in the end, all of her choices were vindicated and she got her "miracle baby." Yay, it's all worth it!
"I drew, in ballpoint pen, her cartoon outline on my skin -- with big eyes, a sprout of hair, and an umbilical tether to my navel that made her look like a startled space walker."
Just wait until they announce the study that ballpoint pen ink can cause premature labor.
I think 43 is unduly harsh: it seems to be clear to her that she was very, very lucky -- with the medical staff as well as the baby, and with their own decisions, none of which turned out obviously "wrong."
She goes through all these stages during which the potential costs of these decisions are considered and agonized over, but in the end, all of her choices were vindicated
Vindicated in the sense that she'd do it again the same way, or that she thinks interventions are always worth it because it might work out, or...? Sure, she could have written a mea culpa. Clearly it was all worth it to her, and she says as much; I don't think she's trying so hard to drive home the point about universal worthiness, except in the argument that dollars spent in the NICU result in more years of life than dollars spent on the elderly. The fertility treatments were a huge sunk cost, and I'm sure they drive some of the parents' singlemindedness in trying to sustain their daughter's life. Every additional step just continues the path they'd been on for years.
But I've never been able to fathom the worthiness stuff, and honestly, from an "objective" perspective it was surely a mistake for me to have a child (although not a mistake for my husband to have a child -- he just should have done it with someone else). But the consolation, once you have the child, is that the child's life is worth a lot to you, and you can also console yourself by helping him or her become a good person whose life is worth a lot to others. Personal narratives like these can really be useless, and dangerous, for forming policy-- not always, but probably in this case. If I had it to do over again, I would have lived my life quite differently or, you know, not at all-- but this doesn't mean that I want, or ought, to publicly denounce myself now for my hubris and shortsightedness in having and raising a child. It's a bit late to make changes.
("Unduly harsh" doesn't mean my impression was 100% positive. Wow, this comment got long and ugly.)
There's also the residual uncertainty about what kinds of problems the child might have in the future. Obviously the author is in a place where she wouldn't have done anything differently, but that doesn't mean there might not be hard times to come ahead at various developmental stages in the kid's life.
I really didn't like the undercurrent of classism (or maybe just class-blindness) especially where she sort of mocks the names of the other babies when I'm sure Juniper is someone else's Nevaeh and whatever. I know this was her story, but I suspect a fair number of the parents who weren't there in the NICU were taking care of older kids without a sufficient support network and working jobs that didn't give them enough time off but that they desperately needed to pay something toward the medical bills, not just being in rehab or jail or being too overwhelmed to acknowledge their sick babies. (And believe me, I know there are negligent parents in the world. No surprise there. But I have heard a lot of anecdotes about how places like the NICU can be hostile to families who don't fit the author's demographic, too, and I wonder if that factored in here.)
I also found the individual narrative very moving. Being involved in the adoption world means knowing a lot of people who've lived through infertility and I know some other stories like this, though none I can think of with such a blithe happily-ever-after ending.
You are about 19 weeks? We just had the 28 week check-up last week.
I lost two sons last year, both to hydrocephalus that doesn't develop until the third trimester. Reading that was so interesting; her daughter was littler than my sons! But she always had a chance my sons didn't, since their brain development was pre-determined. Some aspects of the story were really familiar: the pockets of kindness at the hospital, the horror of the diagnosis, struggling with what a kind mother would do and what quality of life meant, watching the father struggle. No matter what, reading the story made me really glad we stayed out of NICU. Mine would have been the babies with shunts in their heads.
Anon, I'm so sorry. I kept thinking of those babies with shunts throughout the story and the baby who died in the first night of foster care.
There were smaller and less direct resonances with some of the choices we've grappled with and I think the author explained herself pretty clearly.
Anon, I assume you're the same person who shared this story before? I hadn't realized it happened twice - I'm so sorry. That sounds excruciating.
48: A week less than that, just coming up on 18.
She did a great job with the details. I was grateful for a glimpse of where we might have ended up if we hadn't decided to terminate. But we would have done that without any hope of a developmentally normal child, so I'm glad we were spared months of wondering whether death was close.
When I talked about it before, the second time hadn't happened. We were monitoring closely, but the brain problems aren't visible until week 23 or 24.
I am so sorry, anon, for your losses -- I remembered your earlier story too. I hope the new year brings better things for you.
Yes, very sorry Anon.
Anon, I'm so sorry. Your poor dear sons.
So you just went through this again. Wow - I am so, so sorry, anon.
How awful. So very sorry, anon.
What are the doctors saying about the fact that this happened twice to you? Is there anything known? (I hope you don't mind me being nosy - I remember you were pretty forthcoming last time, but you might have had more time to process at that point.)
Oh, anon, I'm so sorry.
Oh, God, that must have been just horrible. So very sorry, anon.
So sorry, anon.
Wow, anon. I remembered your earlier story. I'm so sorry.
I think 43 is unduly harsh
You're probably right.
I want to add my condolences, anon. I'm so sorry for your losses.
Which is a pretty damn stiff way of saying it. Sorry.
As for "reading the story made me really glad we stayed out of NICU" / "a glimpse of where we might have ended up if we hadn't decided to terminate" / "without any hope of a developmentally normal child" -- that is a nice and very real extra utility of the story that I bet the author would not have guessed she was providing. And truly, that does seem like it would be unutterably excruciating.
Oh man, anon, I am so very, very sorry. What a horribly painful process have to have go through.
After the first time, we checked the most likely genetic cause (L1CAM - x-linked aqueductal stenosis' which causes 25% of hydrocephalus cases). That came back clear, so we figured it was most likely a fluke and our second time, we'd be OK. Having the same thing happen twice means it is no fluke. The next project is to look for genetic causes. We have plenty of samples, so next we ask insurance to pay for some specific searches and a whole genome sequencing if those don't turn anything up.
If we find a genetic cause, we can test for it at ten weeks instead of waiting to see it at 23 weeks. But so long as we want to conceive naturally, we can't prevent it. We can only hope for the best. There should only be a 25% chance of it happening with any pregnancy (which is high, when the stakes are so painful). Still, there's a 75% chance that it won't happen for any pregnancy.
What a long road. Still, I'm glad you've got some sort of flashlight on the dark path to a healthy baby.
70: I'm sure the author wasn't thinking of the side-benefit she was giving me, but she might have had an inkling. After having to confront such awful stuff, I, at least, gave a lot of thought to alternative futures. 'We might have been this far along and learning about surgeries for him.'. 'We might have been those people who didn't know until delivery.' 'He might have lived a brutal year and then died.'. The author was doing some of that, so she might have had some sense of being in my position and reading her own story.
Also, ask anything you like. I don't mean to force the conversation to my losses and I don't know what or how much people want to hear, but I'm willing to talk about it.
A hard road? Yes. Aside from the misery, I've been pregnant for fourteen months and gained forty pounds with no baby to show for it. If I do get a take-home baby, I'll have been pregnant for 23 months.
So you and your spouse most likely are each carriers of some recessive gene, I guess?
Did you have a repeat of the whole flying across the country because the local hospital won't administer the shot, and the distant hospital won't deal with complications thing again?
Are you coping ok?
I've been pregnant for fourteen months and gained forty pounds with no baby to show for it.
Good lord. Just the physical toll alone would be monstrous.
Anon, that is just awful. I'm so sorry.
That's the best guess, that we're each recessive carriers. Or maybe I am the carrier and it is sex-linked (Xs from him are good and dominant, so none of our girls would have it. But a Y from him leaves the baby expressing whatever X I give, so half our boys would have it.). But we don't know yet.
No. Our hospital would abort up to 24 weeks, so we scheduled the 23 week ultrasound to look at the last moment we could still schedule a local termination. We beat the deadline at 23w6, same day the author delivered. It was much easier, a D&E rather than a full induction and delivery.
I don't know how we are coping. Normal, mostly, with sadness often and breakdowns sometimes. I am pretty obsessed with the whole phenomenon and reading topical stuff for hours, but I don't know if that has crossed over into unhealthy.
What's the timeline on the genetic testing? Is it all in the hands of the insurance companies?
Reading every and all pieces of literature available sounds like how I'd expect any Unfogged-inclined person to respond. Not that we're a model of mental health necessarily, but I can't imagine leaving any corner unread, myself.
I'm so sorry to hear about this, anon. My thoughts are with you guys.
Two-three weeks to get approval on insurance. The turn-around on checking one gene is quick - a couple weeks. Sequencing the whole genome takes 15-26 weeks. My partner and I were joking that we can fit entire pregnancies inside 26 weeks. But I don't want to get pregnant again for a couple months (if we do decide to try again, which is likely but not completely decided. Pregnancy is no fun when you are just waiting to find out whether you'll terminate.). So if we can get going on those, the timelines are mostly parallel.
Anon, I'm so very sorry.
Stepping out for a bit, but not because this is making me sad. I just have errands to do.
Thanks for answering my questions so openly.
Please feel free to bring this topic up whenever you want. You'll undoubtedly get a chorus of sympathy (sort of like Thorn does) just because the facts on the table are so brutal, but I imagine people here (or at least me) would be receptive to dissecting some random journal article or hearing about the minutia of the medical system, or weighing in with sympathy if some doc was a jerk or something.
So sorry. If it's any help, we lost 2 and then had a successful pregnancy.
Did Anon2 mean to leave a url in there? Not 2 anon.
Anon2, if you did want to leave your website, email me and I'll re-insert it.
Deepest sympathies, that sounds really difficult.
Has your genetic counselor rejected the much cheaper alternative (no insurance necessary) of a survey of all common variants for you and your partner? There are a number of companies that do this, 23andme is the most well-known. Possibly inconclusive, but if a relevant allele is detected before trying for pregnancy, embryo screening and IVF might be relevant avenues for you. I'm not an MD, and this may be intrusive, sorry if so.
Jesus, anon. I am so sorry.
I have no idea if this would be useful, but as you read the literature and look at the sequencing results, please feel free to email (from an anonymous account, obvs) if you could use some help interpreting the biology.
No (reasonable) suggestions are intrusive. It is a massive problem to work through, so I'm grateful for them. After a quick look, I am not quite sure what 23andme does, but it looks similar to something we did do with Counsyl genetics. Counsyl genetics tests for a suite of mutations (mostly Ashkenazi, but also anything big and obvious, far as I can tell). You are right, they're cheap. We got the all-clear from them yesterday. I kinda suspect a disease (Walker-Warburg) that they will start testing for soon, but they don't test for just yet.
I trust the genetic counselor who is working with us. She seems to be doing a nice job of testing everything that is either closely associated with our symptoms or cheap to test. We have to keep going through the guesses and remember that we may never get a definitive answer.
I'm reluctant to do IVF and pre-implantation screening. IVF sounds intrusive and unpleasant and expensive. I don't know how to balance that against conceiving naturally and possibly (25%?) terminating at 23 weeks. I can't tell which is worse from here, but I don't have to decide that before we have an identified mutation.
Anon2, I am sorry for your losses and glad you got a live one.
Ugh. That's unfathomably brutal, anon. I'm so sorry for your losses, and I wish you luck and strength. We lost two in the first trimester, and it was shattering to hear a heartbeat -- I can't imagine at 23 weeks, we'd have left town screaming. (Like Anon2 we're in good shape now, fingers crossed.)
or weighing in with sympathy if some doc was a jerk or something
This was very helpful indeed. Mrs. K-sky has no interest in unfogged, but she was comforted by everyone's willingness to hate on our doctors.
anon, I am so, so very sorry that such a terrible tragedy should happen to you twice in a row. I can't imagine losing two pregnancies like that. I hope that you have a healthy baby soon.
I started bleeding unexpectedly at 19 or 20 weeks when I was pregnant with girl y. it was one of the scariest moments of my life, to turn around to flush, and see the bright scarlet pink of fresh blood in the toilet bowl. it was definitely too early for the baby to survive. I was put on bed rest; not allowed to fly home until I had gone two weeks without bleeding. then I was on bed rest, bleeding intermittently, for the rest of the pregnancy--it turned out to be nothing but placenta previa--and they extracted her via caesarean as soon as they thought she was cooked enough: 36 weeks. it was plenty of time to worry and count movements every 15 minutes. but anon.'s is the nightmare, twice over, I can't imagine.
lurid keriyaki, I'm really interested in what you were saying about your understanding of your personal situation in 45 and I'd love to hear more if you'd like to talk about it but understand if you don't. I get really hung up on questions of "worthiness" and so it's on my mind a lot.
I am sorry for your struggles, anon. Sadly, Ive known a fair number of people who have had to deal with similar struggles. It enrages me that people want to insert themselves into your decision-making process. How dare they presume to know what is best for you?!?!
anon, I too am very sorry you've had to go through all this. Appreciate your willingness to share.
On the overall tone of the article, I'm with lurid keriyaki in 45. The ending seems more about survival than triumph. She does seem to be very aware of how lucky they were to get an ending even this good. To use her metaphor, it's "we decided to go ahead and spin the chamber of this 5 cylinder revolver with 4 bullets, and we held our breaths, pulled the trigger, and got a click - which we hope isn't just a hanging misfire." I would expect that unless they get lucky with biology or decide to adopt, Juniper will be an only child (with two older half-brothers).
Also, I've read "Death be not Proud," and other accounts by parents of dead children, and I couldn't detect much difference between the the tone of those and the way this article developed (except that they usually start by acknowledging the death, and the article left that part in suspense). So I was never sure until fairly late in the article that this was going to be a narrative of survival. Glad I read the article before the comments here.
anon, I am so sorry. I hope that you find answers that let you have a healthy baby.
anon, I am also sorry, I can't imagine what that is like. It sounds like you're coping well, and I really wish you good luck in whatever your next decision is.