Re: Guest Post - 40th anniversary of Roe v Wade

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Fight Big Abortion!


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 2:44 PM
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ok, so NARAL doesnt actually run clinics, so my comment is incorrect. But the point is that you might consider other options with your reproductive rights charitable donations.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 2:46 PM
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I believe the correct word is not "chagrined" but rather, ironically, "chastened".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 3:06 PM
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Huh. I am chagrined to learn that.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 3:09 PM
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Planned Parenthood and NARAL are corporate entities. Their interests are not always aligned with the independent clinics. In fact, they have opened clinics that compete with the little guys.

I've been noodling around on the site and don't see any arguments one way or the other about which groups do best for people.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 3:16 PM
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Chagrin Falls is one of my favorite town names. The name ultimately (via the river) comes from an Indian name, however.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 3:36 PM
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Almost as good as Rising Gorge.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 3:41 PM
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7: Which as far as I know does not actually exist in the wild. Peelman aside.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 3:51 PM
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+r


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 3:58 PM
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Planned Parenthood and NARAL are corporate entities. Their interests are not always aligned with the independent clinics. In fact, they have opened clinics that compete with the little guys.

It seems to me that "pro-choice" people should favor more choice.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 6:32 PM
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What about choosing to punch you in the fucking face?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 6:49 PM
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10 is clearly performance art. But maybe 11 would be, too.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 6:53 PM
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what about beyonce? why isn't there a thread on that?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 6:56 PM
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Like, why is Beyonce so excited about my birthday?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 6:57 PM
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Of course, part of my point is that there is choice in your reproductive dollars.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 7:10 PM
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Is that what they mean by money multiplier?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 7:12 PM
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10 is funny.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 7:25 PM
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Is that what they mean by money multiplier?

Here is a money multiplier. I will match any of you who make donations to credible pro-choice organizations tonight to a maximum of $400. Just forward me whatever confirmation they send you.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 7:55 PM
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No one makes you get your abortion at Planned Parenthood.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 7:56 PM
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18: Orange comment reference in the sidebar!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 8:02 PM
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In fact, they have opened clinics that compete with the little guys.

Yeah! How are the little guys supposed to compete with this?


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 8:03 PM
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Personally, I have a lot of good will toward Planned Parenthood. Will is right that there are other organizations out there doing good work, but when I really, really needed low-cost birth control, Planned Parenthood was easy to find and easy to deal with. Every single person working at Planned Parenthood in New York has been fucking stellar, from the security guards to the nurse practitioners to the cashiers. And while I agree with Will that, as the most visible organization, PP probably sucks up a lot of the reproductive-rights donation dollars, they also bear the brunt of the anti-abortion backlash.

FYI: the strangest part of making an appointment at PP via the website is that there is a field for what alias and/or codewords they should use for phone or email communications.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 8:05 PM
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I just set Blandings back a cool bill!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 8:06 PM
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You're on the hook for $50, Blandings.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-22-13 8:07 PM
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Good NPR story (oxymoron, etc.) yesterday: 'Roe V. Wade' Turns 40, But Abortion Debate Is Even Older.

Some things I didn't know, like that the National Right to Life Committee was set up by the Catholic Church and that Nixon made a calculated decision to make abortion an issue in 1972.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 10:47 AM
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Are there any ways in which PP might pursue its goals that would tend to disadvantage independent providers? All the judicial issues are pretty universal. There are all the new attempts to force providers to shut down via maximally demanding regulations, but I feel like that would hurt them just as much as everyone else.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 11:58 AM
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PP probably sucks up a lot of the reproductive-rights donation dollars, they also bear the brunt of the anti-abortion backlash.

They do not bear the brute of the backlash. Their doctors are often lesser known and they bear less of the brute than the independent providers.

But, I will agree with ackmormon's point about PP providing excellent access to birth control.

However, I would still suggest that you consider the possibility that your charitable donation might provide more of an impact at another organization.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 12:29 PM
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There are all the new attempts to force providers to shut down via maximally demanding regulations, but I feel like that would hurt them just as much as everyone else.

Short answer. Those regulations do not impact PP as much as independent clinics. Some might suggest that their efforts to stop regulations that are likely to shut down their "competitors" was less than fabulous. But, since they are the powerhouse with the most money, they were/are the ones with the greatest ability to wage war against the anti's.

Obv, simplifying a complicated issue.



Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 12:33 PM
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Their doctors are often lesser known and they bear less of the brute than the independent providers.

If I seem sore, it's because I have giants standing on my shoulders.

Also curious, to what extent does PP actually finance abortions for those who can't afford them? I have the impression there's a gap there (though I assume they charge the uninsured on a sliding scale and don't make profits) where it also makes sense to send donations.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 12:38 PM
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25 reminds me of how Evangelical fundies were pro-choice until the late 70s.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 12:40 PM
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25.last: I keep forgetting the third 'A': Amnesty, Abortion and ...?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 6:34 PM
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Ass fucking?


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 6:40 PM
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Ass fucking?


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 6:40 PM
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Ooops.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 6:41 PM
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Acid! Right. And apparently Eagleton was the anonymous Democrat who gave Robert Novak the quote (but 'acid" seems to have actually been "legalization of pot").


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 6:41 PM
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Akrasia.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 6:41 PM
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Aphasia.


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:06 PM
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Hasenpfeffer, Incorporated.


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:07 PM
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32, 33: two times!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:14 PM
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I notice you said "ass fucking" twice.


Posted by: Hedley Lamarr | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:14 PM
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Hedy!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:16 PM
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I like aphasia.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:17 PM
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42: yeah it's fun when uh when whatchacallit.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:17 PM
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I guess that's anomia. WHO CARES, HUH?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:18 PM
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N+7 as algorithmic jargon aphasia.

They will either replace the desired word with another that sounds or looks like the original one, or has some other connection.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:27 PM
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Offer in 18 still valid, btw, as you lot have not yet hit my limit.

44 to 18?


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:28 PM
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44: Well anomic aphasia.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:30 PM
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Not to be confused with apraxia or aphagia.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-23-13 7:33 PM
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"Planned Parenthood" as most people think of it is really "the local Planned Parenthood affiliate which serves my community", which is NOT some national behemoth which can deploy Cecile Richards at the drop of a hat, but rather a competently- and passionately-run labor of love held together by the sacrifice and hard work of the affiliate's staff as well as donors in the community served.

Which isn't to say that people don't donate to PPFA (Planned Parenthood Federation of America), folks certainly do and they certainly should. PPFA serves a vital function in setting affiliate standards and engaging in public advocacy and education. But local Planned Parenthood affiliates are the heart and soul of what people think of when they think of "Planned Parenthood", and there is (IMHO, of course) no better place to donate money if your goal is making sure that women and families in your community have the full measure of reproductive freedom.

Having said that, independent clinics can be excellent sources of reproductive health care, and if there's an independent clinic in your community that does good work and is well-regarded by its patients, then by all means consider them as an alternative. The same can be said for reproductive rights organizations like CRR. But there's really no need to bash Planned Parenthood to make that point.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 7:10 PM
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NCP:

PP looks out for PP.

I will simply suggest that if you are interested in aggressive defense of reproductive rights issues that PP is not your best place to donate. They serve a very important purpose, and they help a tremendous range of women.

However, as the organization that receives the lion's share of donations and money, I would not grade their defense of reproductive rights as an A. More like a C. Maybe that isn't their role.

But, lots of people donate to PP thinking that PP is the organization that will mount the best defense. They haven't and they won't. Far too often, they operate like a corporation afraid of offending anyone. And I will suggest that the placement of their clinics has not always been friendly to other clinics.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 7:50 PM
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I like Medical Students for Choice.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 7:55 PM
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50:

Will, you're generalizing some specific set of experiences with a particular affiliate to "Planned Parenthood" as an entity, and failing to account for the fact that affiliates are largely independent and act accordingly. Without giving too much away here, I'll just say that I'm deeply involved in the operations of a specific Planned Parenthood affiliate and can tell you with 100% certainty that I have never heard independent clinics mentioned, let alone targeted in the way you suggest.

In addition, PPFA did extensive contingency planning in the summer of 2012, gaming out scenarios involving various electoral results. There were lots of options raised during these planning sessions, including one which would have allowed Planned Parenthood to continue to exist while turning its back on abortion services. No affiliate or PPFA staff member ever supported that option.

Your comments here suggest that other organizations have mounted a more "aggressive" defense of reproductive rights. That could be true, for certain values of "aggressive." And as I said above, there are many worthwhile organizations working in this area which deserve support. But no single entity (or really collection of local entities) has done more to give meaning and effect to Roe and its progeny than Planned Parenthood. To suggest that Planned Parenthood only "looks out for PP" is simply not true.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 8:13 PM
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50: (again)

Also, let's not forget the fact that President Obama's re-election was given a HUGE lift by Planned Parenthood's endorsement -- an endorsement which came with a flood of volunteers in swing states as well as critical ad-buys.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 8:20 PM
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NCP:

No. I am not.

I have a long-standing, detailed familiarity with all levels of PP, as well as with other organizations. Both day-to-day, and strategic.

But, I don't really want to continue that portion of this discussion.

The general point of evaluate all options, just don't just blindly donate to PP.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 8:30 PM
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54:

Will:

Fair enough. Just know that your complaints about "Planned Parenthood" don't apply to all PP affiliates.

The general point you make is of course an excellent one with which I agree completely. My point was simple -- you don't need to tear down Planned Parenthood to encourage support for other organizations.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 8:34 PM
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54:

Will:

Oh, and if you've got specific concerns you'd like me to raise with Cecile, please email them to me. I'd be happy to pass them along. :)


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 8:35 PM
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55:

I think it is productive to challenge PP about their strategy and for people who are considering donating to do the same.

The world is a better place bc of PP. No doubt about that. They have helped many women (and thus men too).

However, their strategy in recent years leaves something to be desired.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 8:37 PM
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Thanks for the offer. I've emailed you. But, I might have one or two connections to make my views known.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 8:41 PM
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58:

Dude, I was kidding. Cecile Richards couldn't pick me out of a lineup.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 8:45 PM
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You're being really off-puttingly vague, will. Want to be specific, or link to a specific write-up? Don't like FUD.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 8:52 PM
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It's tempting to make a Cecile Richards/lineup joke, but given the legions of antiabortion crazies, no.

I donate to PP and have for years, though its never been my top charity. I will say that their fundraising is way super aggressive, which is probably a good thing but sure can be annoying.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 9:03 PM
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Sorry, clew. I am torn. NCP has correctly called me out on a little PP bashing, and, on not properly spelling out what "PP" means. (affiliates, etc)

1. When making donations for reproductive rights issues, consider all of your options. There are lots of great organizations out there. That was my primary intent.
2. I want PP (and most other groups) to be much more aggressive. Almost all reproductive rights groups have been apologetic for too long. That has resulted in playing into the other side's narrative, and a steady diminishing of rights.
3. The interests of independent clinics and PP affiliates are not always aligned.
4. There is no doubt that Planned Parenthood has helped countless women and men. (reproductive issues impact both men and women.)


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 9:20 PM
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*Still* vague, which makes mention of `bashing' even more FUD-like. How about you positively describe some of the actions you value in a local clinic, without mentioning PP at all?


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 9:24 PM
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what does FUD mean?

I am not suggesting that the services the PP performs are subpar. That is absolutely not my point. I am only aware of excellent medical treatment and care given by PP affiliates. Hard-working, caring, dedicated people who almost always could be making significantly more money doing something else that does not put their lives at risk.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 9:30 PM
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FUD means fear, uncertainty, doubt. Allegedly what IBM sales people would encourage back in the day when a customer was considering competitors.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 9:50 PM
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Indisputably engaged in by every* marketing department and/or sales person pushing a product characterized by either the slightest complexity or importance to the buyer.

*To a close approximation.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 10:01 PM
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65 66

Wikipedia on FUD .


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 10:05 PM
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Fudd's First Law of Oposition: If you push something hard enough, it will fall over.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 01-24-13 11:34 PM
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Like spelling.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-25-13 6:44 AM
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