Re: Annoying Noises Annoy an Oyster

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Wow, the weather sure has been nice lately! I'm so relieved Spring is finally here!!


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:13 AM
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Did you catch The Voice on TV last night? What a surpriser!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:15 AM
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In more seriousness, though, I do tend to dislike have random small-talk with people (particularly at work), but its really the only kind of talk to have with people that with whom you don't have a more meaningful or close relationship. Seems so awkward, but then perhaps more awkward to not engage in small talk.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:16 AM
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Do cock jokes count as small talk?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:18 AM
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Depends on how cold it is.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:20 AM
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2: Wait, but The Voice is on on Monday and Tuesday. How could you catch it last night? Maybe that was the surprise. (My excuse for knowing this is that my girlfriend likes the show.)


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:22 AM
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Let's call her, TWYRCV.

(The Woman You Reprobates Call Voicey).


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:23 AM
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I can't help but think of Dorothy Parker's review of the book with the thesis "The happiest people are those who think the most interesting thoughts."

"Promptly one starts recalling such Happiness Boys as Nietzsche, Socrates, de Maupassant, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, William Blake, and Poe. One wonders, with hungry curiosity, what were some of the other definitions that Professor Phelps chucked aside in order to give preference to this one."


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:26 AM
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Substantive conversations are definitely good but I wish one of my cow-orkers would stop trying to have the same substantive conversation with me every day for two hours. I've tried just about every conceivable variation on polite social cues that indicate "I would really like you to leave my office right now" to no avail. Yesterday it was the fairly direct "well, I'm going to get some work done right now" and then staring intently at my computer screen, which prompted another string of questions about what kind of work and led back around to his favorite topic.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:26 AM
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Which Psalms do you find to be the most meaningful in times of trouble? Can you believe how many rural counties voted republican in this last election? What's your preference for oral, giving or receiving?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:28 AM
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9: If you leave just for a little bit, they'll leave with you. just get up and either go to the bathroom or get some coffee.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:28 AM
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I wrote a little song for a co-worker in that predicament

You can keep on talking
I don't care
Just keep on talking
To the table or the chair
Just keep on talking
I won't be there!

I'm-a goin' to the bathroom!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:33 AM
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I don't even feel that small talk is annoying, though protracted small talk certainly is. Also, has not Facebook taught us all that conversation on matters of substance is often best avoided?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:33 AM
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I have the same basic conversation over and over in the day with lots of different people. I am quite sure many would find this annoying (and sometimes I do, depending what sort of mood I'm in), but for the most part, I like it. There's a sort of strengthening of social bonds if we're all complaining about the weather, from the kids to the older folks, or commenting on the market's business or discussing food (quite common in our shop). And people love to tell me about their trips to the US, and since for most vacations are happy times, I enjoy hearing about them.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:58 AM
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Non-substantive conversation that is also not smalltalk can be enjoyable, as when participants spontaneously adopt fictitious characters (or at least pretend to be in fictionalized circs) and adjust themselves to each other as the conversation progresses.

NB this can also be unendurable if the participants suck at it.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:59 AM
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(or at least pretend to be in fictionalized circs)

That's how I handle planning meetings. I pretend we're all trapped without food on a chunk of ice floating on the sea far from land. One guy went mad, started talking about the next three quarters, and everybody else decided playing along was less painful than the alternatives available.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:05 AM
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Though some of us are grumbling at his decision to use the last of the battery power available to run a power point presentation.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:09 AM
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Weird presentation of the paper: the linked post seems to think it's meaningful to compare the happiest person and the unhappiest person out of 79 people and imply the differences between them were seen across all of them. And the actual paper is gated.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:33 AM
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Wait, but The Voice is on on Monday and Tuesday. How could you catch it last night?

I can't DVR The Voice? (I actually do like that show.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:42 AM
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(I don't actually DVR it, though.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:42 AM
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Telling people what is on your DVR is probably as close to the Platonic Form of small talk as we are likely get.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:46 AM
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It certainly doesn't make Raymond Terrific happy.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:57 AM
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I've completely given up on making Raymond Terrific happy.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:58 AM
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I knew a woman in grad school who was very against small talk; she thought she should have more meaningful conversations, at least if you were someone worth talking to in the first place. The pressure made her basically impossible to talk to.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:01 AM
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I read the name of the link as "Talk Derpy, Be Happy". So if anyone wants to pitch a counterargument to Slate, you have a title.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:04 AM
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I view conversations as informal sociological data collection. It makes almost everything interesting.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:08 AM
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You have a different view of sociology than most.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:09 AM
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Okay, call it anthropology or somehhing then. What do I know, I'm not an academic.

Having read the linked article, I'm in agreement with the NYT commenters' skepticism. I'm also wondering if the encoding process was biased toward book-learning definitions of substantive.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:16 AM
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I don't really know either. I don't think I count as an academic, technically.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:25 AM
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my girlfriend likes the show

Wait, did I miss something, or is this news?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:41 AM
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I know! I thought she hated the show.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:51 AM
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You missed something. Essear has been involved in a committed long-term relationship with a certain "O.R.D." for some time now.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:51 AM
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I can't imagine why anybody would start a new relationship without first explaining it to us.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:51 AM
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I have no feeling of like or dislike for small talk in general. It's the human equivalent of members of a herd of sheep going baa. It basically means, "I know you, you're not threatening me and I'm not threatening you", but if we went around saying that to everybody at work all the time it would be even sillier than talking about last night's television.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:55 AM
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I end up having too much obligatory smalltalk on occasions when I'm pressed for time, and it makes me ferociously angry.

I've got twenty minutes to get twenty tasks done before class, and I know walking down the hallway will ensnare me in four different slooooow conversations, and I end up plotting my route to avoid people.

When I'm not short on time at work - ie rarely - then I don't mind the small talk for its own sake.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:11 AM
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OTOH, I don't want to have substantive conversations with my colleagues at these moments, either.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:12 AM
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||
Well, there are 5,000 things wrong with me including Lyme disease. I might be freaking out a little bit.

Now I'm hanging out in a lab while they try to figure out what FISH 22 deletion means. Also I'm supposed to go get an MRI.
|>


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:16 AM
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If you're having health problems I feel bad for you, son,
I got 5,000 problems but now a FISH ain't one.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:17 AM
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Ordinary daily small talk is fine -- I'm just as much an ape that likes to be groomed as anyone else -- and chat about TV or whatever, can be genuinely engaging. But I have a family member who can bang on endlessly for hours about tedious shit, in immense detail. I expect we all do. That kind of small-talk can lead to losing the will to live.

re: 24

People like that are basically self-regarding assholes, I think, or at least much of the time. Studying philosophy is quite useful for that, as you can call their bluff.

'Oh, you want to talk about the meaning of life? Metaphysics? Ethics? Have at it.'


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:17 AM
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You have Lyme disease?! Blech. Which symptoms can be attributed to that? And how do you get rid of it?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:20 AM
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37: Ugg. Hope they can take care of the Lyme and all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:21 AM
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And how do you get rid of it?

Drive a stake through the heart of the tick that bit you.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:24 AM
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FISH is just a diagnostic test used to highlight regions of a chromosome under a microscope. It's not the name of a gene or anything.

Best of luck!


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:24 AM
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Good luck Messily. I hope you can zone out and get all mellow in the MRI machine. Sometimes the noises can be quite soothing.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:24 AM
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||

SadTown, home of Heebie U, is slated to get a second Walmart. Keep in mind that this town does not have a coffee shop. Sad town!

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:27 AM
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Further to 44, or maybe the techs will engage in deep conversation with you, giving your life meaning, and making you happy.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:29 AM
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"The young people were all wild to see Lyme." Doesn't sound the same anymore. Good luck, Messily.

If unfogged isn't small talk, what is it? Persiflage? Gossip? Speaking of which, essear, tell, and Josh, you just moved? but the meetup didn't liveblog quizzing you.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:32 AM
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34: It's the human equivalent of members of a herd of sheep going baa. It basically means, "I know you, you're not threatening me and I'm not threatening you"

Oh, I like this take on the matter. Small talk is generally not offensive unless people carry on, and on, and on about whatever the topic may be. 'The weather? Rather too hot for the season, don't you think?' Um, no, we don't need to discuss this for 20 minutes.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:33 AM
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...Aren't there coffee counters in Walmarts? Maybe just in Seattle. Although, now I think of it, that was probably a Costco.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:33 AM
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The "deletion" seems to be what's holding things up. For whatever reason. I actually don't care except that I'm tired of sitting here.

A shit ton of antibiotics, apparently. There are some complicating/additional issues. I have like 20 prescriptions to go pick up. It's going to take some months to find out how much stuff is caused by this and how much nerve damage is permanent.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:35 AM
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Well, there are 5,000 things wrong with me including Lyme disease. I might be freaking out a little bit.

Your new doctor has good intuitions, it seems? I too hope your MRI is soothing.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:35 AM
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50.2 to 40


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:36 AM
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It looks like using FISH to detect a certain DNA sequence in chromosome 22 is something they do to look for DiGeorge syndrome, which I'm not going to pretend I am familiar with. A technique like this (looking for the ABSENCE of something microscopic that is normally there) will be prone to false positives. Maybe the sequence is there, instead of being deleted, but there's a tiny mutation in it that means the FISH probe doesn't bind to it anymore.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:39 AM
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Yowza, that sucks, Messily. Best wishes that the meds help your sympotms get sorted in short order.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:40 AM
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Fingers crossed for you, Messily. Lyme disease is an obnoxious thing, but yeah, shit tons of antibiotics.

I urge you to request a form of antibiotic that people are least likely to be allergic to. I had a Lyme disease scare 6 months ago, and turned out to be allergic to Penicillin. We tried Doxycycline, but I seem to be allergic to that as well. Maybe it's just me. But if you have any input at all, I'd ask what the options are.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:43 AM
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It looks like most aspects of chromosome 22q11.2 deletion should be apparent, or at least suggested, just by looking at the person. I don't see anything on that page to suggest that it could manifest as just hearing loss and autoimmune problems.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:43 AM
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People like that are basically self-regarding assholes, I think, or at least much of the time.

That was the case with the woman in 24. There was an arc of her arriving on the social scene (i.e., starting grad school), people thinking she was cool and interesting and wanting to get to know her (in addition to her self conception as someone who talks about important things, she is striking and dresses very well), and then people giving up and ignoring her.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:44 AM
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Best wishes to EM, and a pox on Rob Walton.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:46 AM
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57: Were they not actually meaningful conversations; were they only meaningful for her; was it too tiring all he time; or was it too annoying that they were supposed to be meaningful?


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:50 AM
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59: The last two. She wanted to skip over any kind of getting-to-know-you chitchat, and also over the kinds of everyday, here we are at the library / in the classroom building / at this local coffeshop smalltalk that establishes the acquaintanceships that turn into friendships over time. And she was weirdly explicit about the whole thing, so she would basically tell you that she'd thought you were going to have "better" conversation than this.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:58 AM
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A This American Life contributor had a piece years ago about how she would get past superficial chit chat and into deep questions with random people she met. It sounded annoying. Here, listen for yourself.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:01 AM
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60: she would basically tell you that she'd thought you were going to have "better" conversation than this.

Did anyone ever laugh in her face, in amazement, at that?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:08 AM
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re: 60

Yeah, I've known people _exactly_ like that. Not all of them total assholes, but it is tiring after a while.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:17 AM
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Maybe? The time she said it to me, when we were having coffee, it was expressed with a sense of puzzlement and a disappointment not exactly in me personally, but in the interaction. She's ultimately an asshole, but one who seems to have gotten there by not really understanding how human interaction works, so there's a bit of feeling sorry for her in there too.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:18 AM
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she would basically tell you that she'd thought you were going to have "better" conversation than this.

"So did I. Maybe you should try harder?"


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:20 AM
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how she would get past superficial chit chat and into deep questions with random people she met

An ex of mine was really into doing this. It made people he'd just met think he was a really dynamic conversationalist. He recently opened an art gallery in NYC, which I think is probably a pretty good thing to do if you're into being "dynamic" and "deep" and "provocative" in that way.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:22 AM
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32 Essear has been involved in a committed long-term relationship with a certain "O.R.D." for some time now.

ORD? O'Hare airport?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:28 AM
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People who want to have deep and interesting conversations must have amazing mental endurance (or easy day jobs). After a solid day of thinking at the office, the last thing I need is a deep conversation. If you want me to think hard about what you're saying, you can pay my consultancy rates, thank you very much.


Posted by: Gareth Rees | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:29 AM
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Orchestral Röntgen in the Dark


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:30 AM
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The lab couldn't figure out what test the doctor wanted so I have to go back tomorrow after they talk to him.

Another test that was ordered is for NATURAL KILLER CELLS. This is the best test.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:42 AM
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I was taken in by an April Fool's joke lo these 11 days ago. Never did I think my local public radio station would do that to me!

'twas a radio interview with a local band with a new performance coming up, and as the radio host often does, he had the band members in the studio to talk about it and perform a bit of the piece.

They were ... weird. Strange people. I'm put in mind of this because one of the band members was called Tibideaux. The host apologized and said he didn't have her full name, and she said, "Tibideaux. Just Tibideaux." The host paused long and said, You seem like a very intense person. She agreed. She wasn't into small talk.

Later he asked her to elaborate on some point about the inspiration for their music, and she said, "Why would I?" Long pause from the host.

The 10-minute or so radio segment is here, with a listening thingy just under the title. The band member's demonstration of the Bulgarian bagpipe (a pig's bladder) is jaw-dropping. The host says, "That's lovely."


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:42 AM
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That doesn't really sound like a joke, per se. More of a comedy sketch. Is there an April Comedy Sketch Day they could reschedule it for next year?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:49 AM
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Also, move heaven and earth to rid Messily of Lyme Disease! And other maladies!


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:50 AM
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The weirdest lab result was that I am not immune to chicken pox, and have had it recently.

(I haven't, that I know of. It seems like a thing I'd notice. I guess shingles doesn't look like pox but would show up the same?)


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:55 AM
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I can't think what "not immune to chicken pox" means. Chicken pox is herpes zoster. Diagnosis seems to say that it can't be detected unless you actively have chicken pox or shingles.

Laboratory tests are available to diagnose herpes zoster. The most popular test detects VZV-specific IgM antibody in blood; this appears only during chickenpox or herpes zoster and not while the virus is dormant.

I am not a scientist, and I'm sure there's more to this, though.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:05 PM
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The IgM thing discussed in that wikipedia article got a positive result. Another thing, listed as "IgG" has a value of less than .91, which correlates to "Nonimmune" according to the printout from the lab test.

I don't know what any of those things really are, but the doctor said "that's a weird result. You're not immune to chicken pox and you've had it recently."


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:11 PM
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72: More of a comedy sketch

Did you listen to it? The most genius level April Fool's jokes are ones you have a very hard time discerning from reality. I confess that the Baltimore music and art scenes include people who really could produce a performance like that, and be way intense about it. And some number of people would take it very calmly and seriously.

In any event, "You seem like a very intense person" is an awesome response to people like Blume's 24.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:13 PM
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You've had chicken pox, but not in a way your doctor understands.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:13 PM
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76: Messily, are you comfortable with your doctor? I don't at all say that s/he is problematic, but second opinions, especially for diagnostic purposes, is a good idea. Is the doctor part of a team? If the doctor has a mystery on his/her hands, it would be good if some other people put their minds to it as well.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:20 PM
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Another doctor! I never would have thought of that on my own. Thanks, Parsimon!


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:25 PM
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ISTM that grad school attracts people like Blume's 24; I'm almost certain that AB knew someone in grad school who did more or less the exact same thing.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:28 PM
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80: I apologize. I was fretting on your behalf.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:29 PM
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'Sokay. I'm fairly cranky about everything right at the moment.

I've seen lots and lots and lots of doctors.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:34 PM
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I knew a woman in grad school who was very against small talk; she thought she should have more meaningful conversations, at least if you were someone worth talking to in the first place. The pressure made her basically impossible to talk to.

Wittgenstein did that too. Somehow it caused him to be the center of a cult of personality.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:36 PM
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Messily, I hope this shit all gets cleared up - or at least, enough of it that you're not dealing with multiple maladies.

2 Lyme disease anecdotes:

Right around the time Iris was conceived, I started to feel all achey and logy, for no apparent reason. After a couple days of this, AB sleuthed it out on the internet, including identifying the tell-tale ring-shaped marks on my skin (not, I might add, where I was bitten). Antibiotics took care of it, but a side effect is severe sun/heat sensitivity, which was tough because this was early July - I'd stick my arm out a car window, and it was like sticking it an an oven: instant, intense heat. Incidentally, at the time there was no Lyme disease in the region - the doctor was prepared to report it to the County Health people, but then we determined that I'd picked up the tick at my dad's in NJ.

Several months ago, I noticed that our dog had lost his pep - he's a natural runner, but he didn't run as readily, and other dogs were able, for the first time, to catch up to him in the park. I was feeling a little mournful, as it seemed that this was a sign of aging (he's not old by any means - no more than 7 - but he is getting middle aged). But, as is obvious from the context, it was just Lyme disease, and he must have felt as crappy as I did when I had it. After just a few days on antibiotics, he was his old self again, which was so nice. Also, in the last 9 years, Lyme disease has become common in the area, and the vet wasn't surprised at all.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:37 PM
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Oh, ugh, Messily. Here's to sorting you out!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:40 PM
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Incidentally, at the time there was no Lyme disease in the region...

Is there now? One of the things I like about here is that I don't feel the need to check for ticks after I've been out in the woods.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:41 PM
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I grew up in eastern Connecticut, which is the home of Lyme disease. Standard procedure is to check for ticks everyday, and if you find a bite, its off to the doctors for prophylactic antibiotics. Every summer, I'd know 2-3 people who came down with it.


Posted by: Light Rail Tycoon | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:44 PM
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My household has acquired a cat, after a few years without, and I was surprised to hear from the vet that the current wisdom is that cats can't contract Lyme disease, so the current anti-flea/tick remedy isn't actually anti-tick any more.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:48 PM
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67: Very good, essear.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:53 PM
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Since when does one put periods in the airport code?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:55 PM
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87: From what the vet said, it wasn't clear to me whether city parks are still in the clear, but definitely once you get much outside of the city there's Lyme - our dog most likely got it in Smicksburg, up in Indiana Co.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:56 PM
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Since when does one put periods in the airport code?

Since one began pretending that they might be the initials of a human woman. Do try to keep up.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 12:58 PM
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if you find a bite, its off to the doctors for prophylactic antibiotics.
That is the worst idea I've heard in quite some time. If you're checking for ticks every day it's almost certainly unnecessary- minimum 24 hours of attachment is required for transmission.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:04 PM
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92: That's good. I really don't go much outside of the city.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:09 PM
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Not good, I suppose. But not that bad for me personally.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:10 PM
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That is the worst idea I've heard in quite some time.

There is no reason at all people can't void in the street. (I hope that helps move you idea-quality evaluations toward a more widely shared norm.)


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:11 PM
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The weirdest lab result was that I am not immune to chicken pox, and have had it recently.

Stuff surrounding that can be really, really weird. When my sister was in her early 20s, she got a really odd rash on her arm that no one could explain. The doctors eventually decided it was some form of chicken pox they'd never seen before. (She'd had chicken pox already as a kid.) Photos were taken for the article they were going to write on it, etc. The rash went away. A month or so later she had the sudden onset of a host of weird neurological symptoms, that culminated in her not being able to control motor function in one side of her body if she wasn't consciously thinking about it. Doctors eventually decided she was most likely having a first episode of MS. After about a month the symptoms gradually went away.

She's never (yet) had another MS episode in the eight years since, and brain scans don't show any evidence that it might have been that. Related to the chicken-pox-ish rash? Maybe? Just coincidence? Who knows?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:13 PM
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99

Do other people often hear suggestions for people shitting in the street? I wasn't aware that was a widely shared norm.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:18 PM
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100

Voiding could be urination.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:26 PM
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||
I most certainly do not want to talk about the Bitcoin Brouhaha, but let me be the first* to say "Dunning-Kruggerands."

*Actually, I believe the first documented appearance was in this Fark comment thread from December.
|>


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:34 PM
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99: Well...


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:36 PM
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103

||

VERY QUICK DUMB BLEG.

I'm making t-shirts for student organization. There was a survey where they voted on 3 catchphrases. I asked them to rank their preferences.

CP 1: 11 put it first, 22 put it 2nd, 9 put it 3rd.
CP 2: 15 put it first, 13 put it 2nd, 14 put it 3rd.
CP 3: 16 put it first, 7 put it 2nd, 19 put it 3rd.

So the most people like CP 3 best, but the most people also like it least. It's basically the most divisive.

CP 2 is almost as popular for first choice.

CP 1 actually has the lowest average, but it's basically the bland choice that no one loves or hates.

SO WHAT'S THE RIGHT ANSWER?
(The answer is that all three choices are actually terrible, but I need to pick one quick and get on with ordering these t-shirts.)

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:51 PM
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I would go with 2.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:56 PM
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This is your answer, heebie.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:57 PM
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Standard 3-2-1 scoring system says CP1, but only by one point, so if there's any way CP2 could be interpreted in a sexual manner that's the one to use.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:57 PM
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Good. That's what I was thinking, too.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:57 PM
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In instant runoff voting, CP 1 gets eliminated first, as it has the fewest first place votes. Then we would need reapportion the votes of those who preferred it to the others using their second place votes.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:58 PM
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To 104, but really you're all sufficient confirmation.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:58 PM
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110


103: You've just stumbled onto Arrow's Impossibility Theorem.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:59 PM
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106: That is what I did also, but slower.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:59 PM
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I bet SurveyMonkey has the reapportion information, if I dig around, but I'm comfortable just going with #2.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 1:59 PM
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||
Why on earth am I debating the existence of g on the Internet?
|>


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:00 PM
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Don't fuck with my Excel skills.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:00 PM
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Use a single transferable vote system.

For the first round of votes, look at everyone's first choice. Eliminate the shirt that got the lowest vote, whcih would be CP 1. Then transfer all of that shirt's ballots to their second choice. In this case, race between shirts 2 and 3 will be determined by how many shirt one voters ranked it second.

The STV system can be iterated a whole bunch of times for very complicated elections. I recently helped do the counting for the American Association of Philosophy Teachers elections using this system. There is actually software for it here, but you won't need that.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:01 PM
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Then transfer all of that shirt's ballots to their second choice. In this case, race between shirts 2 and 3 will be determined by how many shirt one voters ranked it second.

Well, it means I'd have to dig around, since Survey Monkey seems to most obviously only provide the data as presented above, as opposed to by user. But somewhere it's got to say the preference by user.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:02 PM
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We used Surveymonkey for the AAPT. The information is there.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:06 PM
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Which turned out to be super easy to do. Of the 11 people who preferred CP 1, their second choices broke down as:

8 for CP 2
3 for CP 3.

So I think CP 2 is the decisive winner.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:07 PM
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113: beats me, but I saw that thread too. Light the Cosma-signal!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:08 PM
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Is it better for a t-shirt to be hated by few, loved by more, or considered a mediocrity by all?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:10 PM
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119: I'd pay the $5 for his sign-up fee. Tweety's, too, if he wants in on the fun.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:15 PM
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119: I'd pay the $5 for his sign-up fee. Tweety's, too, if he wants in on the fun.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:15 PM
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I'm so eager for them to join in I felt the need to say it twice.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:16 PM
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So I think CP 2 is the decisive winner.

Woo hoo -- science!


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:18 PM
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My sister was just diagnosed with Lyme disease after as near as we can tell a three-year incubation period. She had it checked out at the time and they didn't find anything; but she started having unexplained joint inflammation and she luckily had a doctor who asked the right questions.

So, sympathies, Messily.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:19 PM
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Interesting . . . 11 of the 14 3rd place votes for CP2 came from people who had CP3 as their first choice. Clearly the CP3 fans are just contrary people.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:20 PM
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Also, oudemia, you can knock off the gravid vibes now. Switch the vibes to the kid turning his head to face my back so we can get this show on the road!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:20 PM
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Oh, boy! OK, rotational vibes and soothing analgesic energies!
Argh! I am so excited! MOAR BAYBEEZ!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:27 PM
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121-122 and previous: aha, I see that hit metafilter. That rebuttal to Cosma is fairly singularly unconvincing. I got there via H/su's blog post about it, which I found hilariously pissy.

Cosma has been alerted (by me, at least) to the mishegas, and if I read between the lines of his one word email may not be super inclined to join the stupid, stupid battle.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:29 PM
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128: To be clear, nothing is happening yet, but the midwife thinks that things would be happening if we could get him to turn because his head is right there (and has been for three weeks, thanks to your strong vibes.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:33 PM
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How do you read between the lines of an email with only one word in it?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:36 PM
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The word is made out of lines.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:36 PM
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131: it requires tremendous perceptiveness.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:37 PM
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131, 133: bath salts


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:38 PM
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Why on earth am I debating the existence of g on the Internet?

Maybe the Internet is the only place on earth where g actually exists?


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:54 PM
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I wafted through the shower door of perception.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:56 PM
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||

Okay, so has this been noted before? Type the following into the google search field: [name of large US city] [space] woman [space] and see how fucking disturbing the suggestions are. Miami is the only one I've found so far that is not horribly depressing.

||>


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 2:57 PM
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My current city of residence yields "in black" and "eats dog" as the first two suggestions.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 3:05 PM
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137: Marin is pretty innocuous.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 3:13 PM
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I don't know that 2,666 residents counts as "large"


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 3:17 PM
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137: That is disturbing.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 3:26 PM
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140: Is this a Bolaño joke I'm not getting?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 3:28 PM
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142: According to Wikipedia, Marin City has exactly 2666 people. But I think you've just cracked the case of why the book is called that.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 3:33 PM
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Ah. When I tried googling Marin I was only getting the county, so I was confused. Seems like typing "Marin woman" would get you results for the county anyway.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 3:45 PM
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||

Life has a thing online commemorating the liberation of Buchenwald, with Margaret Bourke-White's photographs.

What's striking is how the photos still have their power to completely shock, and, when you see the layouts as published in Life [the last few images], that the news media would never print anything like it today.

http://life.time.com/history/buchenwald-photos-from-the-liberation-of-the-camp-april-1945/?iid=lf%7Cmostpop#1

>


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 3:51 PM
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I get "killed" "missing" and "found in water tank." On the other hand, current city+man yields "killed" "killed in New York" and "manhunt."


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 4:01 PM
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ype the following into the google search field: [name of large US city] [space] woman [space] and see how fucking disturbing the suggestions are. Miami is the only one I've found so far that is not horribly depressing.

Woman:
"magazine"
"leaves baby in woods"
"on survivor"
"found dead in michigan"
"'s football"
"dies at bonnaroo"
"found dead at bonnaroo"
"'s shelter"
"steals baby"

Man:
"vs food"
"shot in head"
"cave"
"missing"
"arrested for facebook post"
"vs food restaurant"
"cave"
"tasered"
"shot by police"
"'s house demolished by mistake"
"'s house demolished"


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 4:06 PM
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Woman:
- freezes to death
- bites
- freezes
- shot
- found dead
(the rest are all sports)

Man:
- vs food
- arrested
- shot
- hit by train
- stabs dog
- shot sandwich
- missing
- stabbed
- brings gun to movie
- drowns


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 4:34 PM
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Woman:
- assaulted
- found dead
- 's club
- 's health partners
- on survivor
- missing
- hit by car
- on extreme couponing
- of the year
- charged

Man:
- found dead in car
- found dead
- missing
- cave
- electrocuted
- dies in fire
- cures cancer
- bomb
- on top shot
- killed


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 4:37 PM
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||
OMFG, there's a new puppy living under us and he gets to chew on one of these all day.
|>


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 5:24 PM
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Vs. Food: jumps off bridge.
Found dead. Hit by train.
I'll never be attacked by bobcat.
Shot, shoots.
Pregnant wife.
Falls on bubble wrap. Dies.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 5:53 PM
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152

Shot in head? Face transplant.
Shot in water? Killed in tunnel.
Falls in water, dies in pool, drowns in public pool.
Drowns. Drowns in pool.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 5:56 PM
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153

Hangs himself. Wins lotto!
Is chauffeur for nobel laureates!
Charged, stabbed, shot. Killed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 5:58 PM
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154

Found dead, dies (shot).
Arrested; stabbed customers.
On the moon, with a van, missing!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 5:58 PM
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155

Arrested: pigeons, guns.
Charged for keeping pigeons.
Minuteman! Library handyman!
Sushi, man.
Sushi, man.
Handyman.


Stabbed!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:02 PM
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156

Dies in Cancun; beaten in New York.
Beaten in NYC!
Kills girlfriend: bobcat.
Hit by car, is savagely beaten (beat in NYC).
Attacked by bobcat!
Wins lottery!!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:04 PM
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157

Shot. Attacked. Hit by dump truck. Hit by car. Hit. Killed. Dies in fire.
Bank robbery! Robs bank!!
Hit by truck.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:06 PM
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158

Of the year 'Hit By Car':
Booksmith pioneer, pioneer.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:07 PM
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159

Killed! Shot! Hit by car, falls off roof. Falls from roof.
Struck by lightning, falls, found dead. Fell off roof. Hit by lightning.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:08 PM
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160

Wins 32 million and van!
Wins lottery!
Wins Mega Millions!
Wins Castle Island!

Manhunt; killed; dies. Shot.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:10 PM
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161

Tasered, attacked, assulated.
Attacked in Aruba: West Nile Virus.
Dies in fire, examining man.
Shoes, examing man.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:20 PM
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162

Hit by car, killed. Shoots... self?
Falls, falls from tower of God. Dies in fire, found.

Found... dead!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:21 PM
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163

Loses gun license, killed by hit-and-run driver, hit by car, killed, shot, killed, sets himself on fire, beaten in Baltimore, shot in head, electrocuted.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:24 PM
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164

Murders: husband.
Kills: husband.
Shoots: husband.
Killed? Murdered?

Center missing.


-- Club hit, by "Truck"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:26 PM
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165

Arrested.

Hit by train. Manpower! Consultancy!
Dies.

Ponzi scheme pleads guilty mischief, manpower 'o war.

Gets hit by train? Killed by train.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:28 PM
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166

Hit. By. Train.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:29 PM
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167

how annoying


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:35 PM
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Hope you feel better, Messily.

Sometimes I imagine the tick life cycle as an epic adventure, going through different hosts, first the MOUSE (so big and scary!), then the SQUIRREL (even bigger!), then the DEER (immense!), and all the while the seasons are changing, millions of ticks dying during the winter, etc. (Note, HUMANS are not part of this adventure.)


Posted by: YK | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:37 PM
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169

Yep. Evolution is a fuckhead.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 6:49 PM
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For DC, I typed in "DC woman ", and got:

DC women in technology
DC women in communications
DC women in jazz
DC women in international arbitration
DC women in business

For "DC man ", I got:
DC man vs food
DC man shot
DC man shoots dog
DC man bat
DC man dies waiting for ambulance


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:00 PM
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167 was supposed to be an annoying interruption but I was too late. Also, lyme disease is scary.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:08 PM
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172

Now do the Isolation thread!


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:37 PM
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173

Peoria woman murdered
Peoria woman shot
Peoria woman magazine
Peoria woman killed

I would totally subscribe to Peoria Woman.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 7:59 PM
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oyster woman
rolex oyster woman
oyster bay woman found
oyster bay woman found in water


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:01 PM
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175

My suggestions for "man" include "Manila flights", "Manufacturers' Association", "Mansion", "Manicure" and my favourite, "Mandolinata Orchestra"

The only one that actually includes the word "man" is "man drought", which I imagine some people could find depressing


Posted by: Basil Valentine | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:02 PM
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176

Former student on FB: "dear meningitis, please get out of my shoulder!"

Can meningitis be in one's shoulder?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:18 PM
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177

Technically, meningitis is in the nervous system, but back/neck/shoulder pain is common.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:35 PM
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178

Isn't meningitis potentially fatal or something?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:36 PM
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Can be, but meningitis is a big umbrella with a lot of different causes. If you don't treat it, bacterial meningitis will probably kill you. Viral meningitis usually goes away.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:41 PM
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180

Can meningitis be in one's shoulder?

No, your student must have been thinking of arthritis.


Posted by: Tyler Burge | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:41 PM
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181

That's not a good wikipedia page for somebody with a basically nervous temperament to read.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 8:42 PM
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182

If the meningitis doesn't get you, the beavers surely will.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 9:58 PM
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183

I know you only linked that to goad someone into making a vagina dentata joke, but I'm not going to be the one to do it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 10:39 PM
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184

There's nothing funny about vagina dentata, teofilo.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:06 PM
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185

Right, that's what I'm saying.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-11-13 11:14 PM
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186

No one can make a joke about it, because there's nothing funny about it. It's literally impossible.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 12:46 AM
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187

That would imply that there's no such thing as an unfunny joke, which seems dubious to me.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 12:50 AM
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188

London woman:
in black
's clinic
's marathon
disfigured by acid attack
free online dating

London man:
and van
London man (book title)
London men's fashion week

all rather dull until
LONDON MAN DIES AFTER BEING RAMMED BY SHOPPING TROLLEY!
Nice one London.

Edinburgh is skewed by the existence of a Fall song called "Edinburgh Man".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 1:51 AM
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189

I suspect what's happening is that UK newspapers tend not to describe people as "London man" or "Manchester woman" - it'll be "teenager killed in fight" or "mother of three eaten by bear".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 1:54 AM
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feel better e. messily! I hope all your mysterious health issues are resolved with a single helpful diagnosis and the cure is for you to take 1 xanax every day, and then all your symptoms are gone and you feel pretty chill about life, too.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 3:55 AM
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191

the linked post seems to think it's meaningful to compare . . . 79 people college students, likely of similar age, limited experience, and possibly sharing other significant demographic characteristics (and on a single campus?) which hardly tells one anything about people in general.

Late, I know, but what a stupid article. (Perhaps the paper isn't as stupid.)


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 8:23 AM
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191: it probably is just as stupid. That said, the advantage of just picking a college student population is actually that they are so similar; if you had a demographically more varied pool then you could say "oh well, the people who had more interesting conversations were on average older, or richer, or more experienced in the world" or whatever. Restricting your sample to a relatively homogeneous pool reduces the amount that you can generalize outside that pool, but it also decreases the amount that you won't be able to make a general conclusion about anybody.

Still a stupid study, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 8:30 AM
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Messily, sorry for your sucky medical situation.

Several years ago, a friend of mine had all sorts of mysterious symptoms including fatigue and all-over pain. They eventually decided it probably wasn't Lyme disease (which I gather can't really be proven not to be present) but never could figure out what it was. She eventually recovered.

We named her mysterious illness the Bezique (which is a French version of piquet but somehow seemed like the right name) as in, "Hey, remember that time you had the Bezique?"


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 8:30 AM
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194

a single helpful diagnosis

hahahahahahahaha

Um, I mean, thank you, and this is also what I wish...

It seems like Lyme disease (and also the mitochondrial stuff) are things that can be proven to be there, but can't be proven not to, which makes them very irritating ideas. However, I definitely do have Lyme disease. Also an H. Pylori infection, which is (hopefully) causing a lot of pretty severe vitamin deficiencies, some of which can also cause nerve damage. (As can Lyme disease). The current idea is to try to get rid of the stomach infection, which will then also resolve the vitamin issues, and then to try to get rid of the Lyme disease, and THEN to wait and see if any of the nerve damage manages to heal itself up. And then after that, once everything is at some sort of stable level with no active germs messing things up, to revisit the mitochondria idea and see if that can be taken off the table or not.

Meanwhile I am also being treated for "autonomic instability" which could be caused by basically any of the above.

Exciting times. Anyway you guys are the best, thanks for all the sympathy.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 8:51 AM
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195

Eww, EM, pylori stuff has always sounded nasty. Getting rid of that sounds like a good start. But ugh! I'm so sorry you're dealing with all of this.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 8:54 AM
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196

I really want a Lyme disease vaccine. Our local public radio station, WBUR, did a series on Lyne disease. They said that there had been a fairly effective vaccine that was pulled from the market.

It is, however, available to your dog.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 10:12 AM
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197

182: Holy crap, the beaver bite *severed an artery*?!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 5:54 PM
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198

I think the Lyme vaccine was pretty low efficacy- maybe 40% or something. My mom helped run the trial for it.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 6:10 PM
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199

198: Did it have terribly unwelcome side effects? Even with 40% efficacy, there might be some people in particular circumstances for whom it would be appropriate, it seems to me. Or maybe that's not how it works: maybe too expensive to develop at all, or something, with only 40% efficacy.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 6:16 PM
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Yeah, here's the problem- takes 3 shots to get it up to 76% efficiency, and the cost/benefit doesn't work out so insurers probably weren't covering it. Unless it becomes much more prevalent it's still not worth it.

At an assumed cost of vaccination of $100/person/year, a vaccine effectiveness of 0.85, a probability of 0.85 of correctly identifying and treating early Lyme disease, and an assumed incidence of Lyme disease of 1,000/100,000 persons/year, the net cost of vaccination to society was $5,692/case averted and $35,375/complicated neurologic or arthritic case avoided (Figure 1). Using these same baseline assumptions, the societal cost of vaccination exceeds the cost of not vaccinating, unless the incidence of Lyme disease is greater than 1,973/100,000 persons/year....Most disease-endemic states and counties report Lyme disease incidence that are substantially below 1,000/100,000 persons/year. For example, in 1997, the highest reported state incidence was 70/100,000 persons in Connecticut, and the highest reported county incidence was 600/100,000 population in Nantucket County, Massachusetts. However, some studies document that approximately 10%-15% of physician-diagnosed cases of Lyme disease are reported to state authorities in highly endemic areas (46,47). Epidemiologic studies of populations at high risk in the northeastern United States have estimated annual incidence of greater than 1,000/100,000 persons/ year in several communities.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 6:17 PM
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Also it only lasts through the season following your third shot- the next year you need boosters again.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 6:18 PM
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197: Easier than a tree.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 6:19 PM
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That is why the link in 150 concerns me. What exactly are we teaching dogs with those things?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 6:21 PM
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Americans don't know how to make conversation. Talk to a Brit and you will know what I mean. We are a pretty charmless bunch that way.


Posted by: Hattie | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 8:03 PM
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I talk to Brits all the time who are terrible conversationalists, I am happy (?) to report.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 8:07 PM
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Americans know how to make generalizations.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 04-12-13 8:09 PM
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