Do any of you have a contingency plan like this? Or a list of friends you know you could go to if the shit really hit the fan big time? Somewhere you would and could go if you had to get off the continent?
I am thinking that maybe I should set something up now while I feel safe and have plenty of time, instead of waiting until bad things are already happening.
My grandparents had one, because they were communists. There were plans to shift money to Canada and run.
My dad came home one day to find his mom burning documents in the fireplace. Two workers at my grandfather's factory (where they made metal frames with the two-ball clasp for ladies' purses) had decided to assassinate Eisenhower, and everyone remotely involved was to be interviewed. The feds did in fact show up and even interviewed my dad, who was eight, and who'd been coached on what answers to give.
Is "run" really a "code word"? It sounds like it was being used literally.
3: It would've taken a long time to get to Spain that way.
"Rosebud" is a good code word, if you escape to Canada by sled.
"Run? Is he trying to tell me I'm fat?"
The feds did in fact show up and even interviewed my dad, who was eight, and who'd been coached on what answers to give.
"When they ask if you know of any plots about the assassination of President Eisenhower, you say?"
"Yes."
"No. You say 'No.'"
"But you just told me about one."
I do hope to move to New Zealand before the collapse of civilization. Though I don't really have concrete plans yet, since civilization collapse doesn't seem to be happening in the near future.
re: 1
I can't really think why I'd have one. What sort of circumstances are you imagining?
Maybe you are a blogger of a major website chronicling Mexican drug violence.
A fair number of people I knew had more-or-less elaborate contingency plans for what they would should the jackboot of the federales descend -- things like hitting hard drives with an electromagnet, dead man's switch-style hard encryption, etc. I think we even poked around in the logistics of how one might fake one's own death. It was all rather childish, and I'm pretty sure nobody I know who was ever busted actually had the wherewithal to do any of that.
CA's father is weird and OCD. He has lots of contingency plans. The family was never allowed to all fly on the same airplane! (Me, I'd rather we all go down together, but hey.) The man *became a Quaker* despite longstanding atheism so that CA could plausibly claim CO status if he needed to.
I'd rather we all make it safely to our destination together.
1: The holocaust, basically, or other events where one really, really doesn't want to be on the wrong side of the border. By the time it was clear that things weren't just normal-shitty, other countries were turning back the ships of refugees, with a few glorious but often futile exceptions.
On the other hand, physical and financial assets can be hard to retrieve and use in an emergency too. Maybe the best strategy is just to have a big, spread out, not fully overlapping network of trusted friends and family.
The family was never allowed to all fly on the same airplane!
My aunt and uncle have done this for the last 30+ years. I'm not sure why they do it now that both their kids are grown adults in their 30s, but they do.
Sometimes the lowered pressure of the cabin makes people really fart a lot. Maybe your aunt or uncle is truly exceptional in this regard.
The Guardian has the story that the woman responsible for content is alone in Spain with a few months of money, no personal contacts there. The warning came from her partner who runs the technical side. Yikes. I hope she finds a way forward, doubt that she'll be doing more posting.
It's really a shame that background check laws which might restrict the flow of US guns into the country failed.
My wife and I have a loose meeting place a few hundred miles away in case our city is evacuated because of some disaster, we keep food, water, and some hidden cash in our cars.
re: 10
Well sure, but then I'd planning what a Mexican blogger might do, and not what someone running digital projects for a library might do.
I think I'm mentioned here before that my father has carried two wallets for like forty years so that he will have a fake one to give a mugger should he ever get mugged.
My father always checks every pocket when he mugs people in case they have two wallets.
My father is a wallet maker. He wins!
Do people still pick pockets with any great frequency? Old guys used to tell me to always put my wallet in my front pocket so I didn't get it lifted.
I think people carry so much less cash that it's not worth it. You'd have to get really lucky to get more than a couple of bucks off me, and often I don't have anything but change. Doesn't mean it never happens, but I bet you used to able to make a living picking pockets and now you can't.
You'd have to get really lucky to get more than a couple of bucks off me, and often I don't have anything but change
You! You're what's wrong with America today!
I carry a fair bit of cash. I don't like my bank knowing how much I drink. Also, I hate having to store piles of credit card receipts but I'm incapable of throwing them away.
Also, the place I usually eat lunch only takes cash.
I'm fairly cautious when out an about in terms of keeping an eye out for shady bastards, crossing roads in anticipation of trouble, and so on.
Funnily enough, the one friend I know who has been mugged in the past 10 years is huge. He ended up in court as he somewhat injured (ahem) the two would-be muggers, and he was charged with GBH or ABH, iirc. Acquitted, though. I still can't figure out the thought process that went on in the muggers heads. The guy is a fairly flamboyant dresser, in a sort of theatrical/crusty way, but he's 6ft 3 and about 240lbs most of it not flab.
charged with GBH
Huh. I had heard of the band before but never bothered to look up what their name meant.
When I first tried heroin, somebody told me I could make money by rolling drunks. Well, I waited outside the bar for awhile, picked a drunk who looked like a good prospect. I must have rolled him for 3 miles, and I never saw a nickel!
You should have had them explain it to you before you took the heroin.
29: One of the most popular bands to have a patch of among punk rockers, despite the fact that no one ever seems to actually listen to them. Same goes for the Casualties.
More seriously, I formulate escape plans all the time, but lacking a ready supply of largish diamonds, I'm pretty sure I'm screwed if the fascists come to take me.
...we keep food, water, and some hidden cash in our cars.
Keeping food and water and blankets in your car is a good idea if driving in blizzard county during the winter. I've known more than one person who has had to shelter in their car until they could see or the snow plow came by.
blizzard county
Dairy Queen paid for the naming rights.
One of the most popular bands to have a patch of among punk rockers, despite the fact that no one ever seems to actually listen to them
I know of them via the patches and the mention in this live version of NOFX's "Linoleum".
We camped out Sunday night. I think I'm too old for sleeping on the ground, and so will go down with the ship should civilization collapse.
Or go to Canada, which might be the same thing.
(Seriously, it's hard to believe that something would happen that would make the US unlivable that would leave Canada unscathed. A holocaust that targets fat middle aged WASP lawyers? Only in McManus' dreams.)
36.1: I still do pretty good sleeping on the ground, if the ground isn't rocky or anything.
There's no where you can go to escape an insane United States.
(tbh, the 29 miles of biking beforehand might have had something to do with it. Outrunning the collapse of civilization will be comparable, though, right?)
40: You can't be too rich, too thin or too far removed from US drone capability.
36 -- there are plenty of fat middle aged WASP lawyers in Canada, too.
I love the idea if a contingency plan but have been procrastinating on getting it done. My vision is of an off-the-grid shack in Shasta County, which seems doable.
Do people still pick pockets with any great frequency? Old guys used to tell me to always put my wallet in my front pocket so I didn't get it lifted
Also so that you don't sit on your wallet.
I daydreamed vaguely about getting an Irish passport for awhile -- my understanding is that with Irish grandparents, I get one as a matter of right.
Then, with an Irish passport, when the secret police came to get me I could defend myself by showing it to them. This would work, right?
40: Now, sure. But in 10 years? 20? 50?
Would a Roman citizen have been naïve to cultivate some friends in Persia and Egypt?
45: I think you're supposed to defend yourself by showing it to Irish border officers, well before the secret police get to your house.
Unless "Irish Passport" is a euphemish for some kind of concealed weapon.
Unless "Irish Passport" is a euphemish for some kind of concealed weapon.
Let's keep our national stereotypes straight, shall we? Obviously an "Irish Passport" is a bribe of alcohol given to a maitre d', bouncer, purser, etc., in return for a better table, seat, appointment time, cabana, etc.
It seems odd to be thinking about contingencies like those that 46 implies. If it's that far ahead, surely the response is going to depend on the disaster that has befallen/is-about-to befall you?
I'd guess the panopticon means that hiding from future secret police is going to be really really hard, though. No matter what.
46 -- A United States insane enough and yet well organized enough to be a danger to all but the most dedicated of foes will always be able to get to them. Cf. Trotsky in Mexico.
The real danger is that in the OP: becoming a foe of non-state powers.
A non-US passport would allow opening bank accounts unconnected to your US identity. Potentially also to leave the US incognito.
I doubt that the future panoptigooglon will be deployed against the insignificant.
45. You might want to check your position regarding that - I believe they've been clamping down a little of late, but I'm not sure how far.
Mrs y's father was an Irish citizen at the time of her birth, so you can hide in our basement if necessary.
Wikipedia looks as though I'm still in good shape. Although I have no real plans to do this.
I'm a dual national, so my bugout plan is simply to head to the UK to be oppressed by their free healthcare. I assume that in the event the US goes to shit to such an extent that I feel the need to GTFO the UK will be similarly situated. My real plan in the event that everything goes to shit is to either die quickly or cravenly cooperate with the authorities, depending on whether it's a survivalist type apocalypse or an authoritarian dystopia.
re: 53.last
It'll be so easy to deploy that they'll deploy it against anyone they wish. It probably already is.
I, on the other hand, plan to fight the oppressors with orange post titles.
The panopticon is only for the insignificant.
There's a limit to the amount of organizing we can do online. If you'd shown up at the party, you would have been given directions to the underground Fortress of Ogged.
We'll all be squatting and barricaded inside a Capitol Hill VRBO. There will be ample stores of empty bottles for Molotov cocktails.
54, 55: I have heard that the requirements w/r/t documentation are tedious and extensive and the bureaucracy J.P. Donleavy-esque, but that if you meet the requirements you can get the passport eventually.
my bugout plan is simply to head to the UK to be oppressed by their free healthcare
Better get a move on, then. I don't expect that to last more than another five years or so.
I assume you exchanged one-time-pads and put steganography in the baby pictures.
I find this stuff just incredibly distressing to read about. It seems utterly hopeless.
My father is a wallet maker. He wins!
A one-armed wallet maker, no less!
(Distressed by OP, not thread.)
I would have said an Irish Passport was a shot of whiskey dropped into a PBR or something.
PBR really tastes horrible. I was surprised when I tried it.
I am actually about two months away from getting a Polish passport. If Israel starts a war with Iran that might be a good reason to at least wait it out elsewhere, but it's more probable that if I do decide to leave, it will be either from despair over reversing the right wing trend the country has taken or simply for financial reasons (again, brought about by said right wing takeover).
71: Here's hoping you don't move for those reasons, but let me know if you want me to introduce you to people there (PL). I believe Teraz mentioned owning a flat in Zakopane, if you're into skiing.
I should have a Polish passport, and filled out many, many forms in triplicate (by hand!) to resolve the issue, but it seems we never found the right person to bribe (to do the right thing, that is. I really shod have citizenship).
The passport is more so I can move to England or Scotland, but thanks. And I hope it wpn't come to that either.
My vision is of an off-the-grid shack in Shasta County, which seems doable
Halford abides.
Concerning the OP: I haven't read through all the comments but here's a link that is critical about Lucy and Blog del Narco:
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2013/05/lucy-is-accused-of-profiting-from.html
BTW, Borderland beat is the place to go for reportage on the Mexican drug wars but definitely not for the faint of heart or those who like their sleep free of nightmares.
28
... He ended up in court as he somewhat injured (ahem) the two would-be muggers, and he was charged with GBH or ABH, iirc. ...
So it's true that in England you aren't allowed to defend yourself?
36
Seriously, it's hard to believe that something would happen that would make the US unlivable that would leave Canada unscathed. ...
Easy enough for me to imagine. Another 50 years of stupid immigration policy could do it.
re: 76
They tend to go with reasonable force as the criteria. If you punch someone who attacks you and then retreat and phone the police, say, that'd be fine. If you then stamp repeatedly on their prone body, not so much. It depends on the circumstances. You can use fairly extreme force in circumstances where that's deemed reasonable. If someone is trying to kill you, you are justified in using extreme force to prevent it.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence/
Note that those guidelines say:
all those acting reasonably and in good faith to defend themselves, their family, their property or in the prevention of crime or the apprehension of offenders are not prosecuted for such action.
In the case of my friend, I think he broke one guy's arm and nose, and broke the ribs of the other guy. He may have done more than that, I can't recall the exact details. He's a big guy who knows how to fight. The injuries to the would be muggers were bad enough that he was charged. However, in the face of the fact that there were two of them, and one had a knife, he was acquitted. As beating the total shit out of them in the circumstances was deemed reasonable. I don't imagine it'd have gotten that far [charges] if he'd been a middle-class suburban Dad, rather than a drunk(ish) young Scottish 'alternative'-looking guy in London.
77 makes me wish I hadn't replied to 76.
Speaking of which, wasn't somebody going to be writing a bit of code for these situations?
80: I don't know that the relevant party has been informed of that idea. But that's easy enough to do.