Re: Stiff as a board

1

Time for a new mattress.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:59 AM
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I found the memory foam mattress made a giant difference with this, but I recall that you hate them.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:00 AM
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Actually, I tried one and totally retracted my words! Over winter break, my aunt and uncle put us up in a room with a memory foam mattress, and it was nothing like my earlier experience. I then remembered that the original experience was with a memory foam pillow.

Anyway, it helps with waking up super stiff? Do you have the entire mattress or just a pillow top? I have it in my head that the mattresses are super expensive.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:02 AM
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Time for a new mattress.

Memory foam aside, I feel like there's a new frantic marketing campaign by mattress dealers, about how your mattress lasts 8 years - no, 6! - no, only 4! - and how it doubles in weight every X years due to dead skin cells. It sounds like such utter bullshit drummed up by the mattress companies. Is there any truth to it?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:05 AM
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We have a top, but it's a very thick and dense one. I got a king size one from overstock.com for less than $200.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:06 AM
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2 is probably right, but you might just need new pillows. In higher latitudes it can be the result of inadvertently getting cold in your sleep, but I doubt if that's much of a problem to you.

Alternatively you've got sudden onset rheumatoid arthritis, in which case you're shit out of luck.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:06 AM
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Is the problem really just trying to sleep on a hard surface? What goes wrong with a mattress, in other words? It still depresses when you sit on it.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:12 AM
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Alternatively you've got sudden onset rheumatoid arthritis, in which case you're shit out of luck.

Fortunately my hands and feet seem fine.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:13 AM
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According to the interwebz, it's not hardness or softness, but supportiveness. I suppose that makes sense. This mattress was one we acquired because a friend was moving and wanted a new one, eight years ago.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:17 AM
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I'm reluctant to buy a new mattress before being done with babies, but I suppose we could get a waterproof cover for it.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:18 AM
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Also, do I need a box spring? We've got a platform bed and I prefer the aesthetic of platform beds.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:19 AM
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12

It still depresses when you sit on it.

Maybe your problem is psychological?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:22 AM
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IIRC, with a full memory foam mattress, you don't want a box spring at all. You want a hard, flat foundation.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:30 AM
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We have a top, but it's a very thick and dense one.

Apostropher, don't sell yourself short.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:04 AM
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To the OP, I also have this problem. Mostly when I'm actually being a good boy and exercising. There is something fundamentally wrong with my feet. Hips, too. And shoulders.

On preview (for old age): I'm so epically fucked.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:06 AM
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For me it's been Achilles and ankle in general, not just on awakening, but after any period of inactivity. Bad enough that I've actually taken to stretching them periodically (yuck). Also heel inserts seem to be helping a bit.

But that is not really what you are talking about.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:40 AM
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It's nice to read a comment thread like this without being able to predict with numbing accuracy the recommendations of (and opposition to) yoga, veganism, pressed juices, cold-brewed coffee and "I'm not racist, but..."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:47 AM
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18 is my problem, except now my hips hurt. I've not tried heel inserts. I should maybe see a doctor.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:48 AM
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19 is why we have the best commenters in the world.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:49 AM
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Also, do I need a box spring? We've got a platform bed and I prefer the aesthetic of platform beds.

Nope. We have a regular mattress with a memory foam topper on a platform bed, no box spring. We were told that not using the box spring voids the warranty on the mattress, but when was the last time you used a mattress warranty?


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:50 AM
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12: There are waterproof covers that don't have that crinkly noise but can still catch gallons of liquid. Highly recommended.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:50 AM
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On preview (for old age): I'm so epically fucked.

This is what I'm worried about, too.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:50 AM
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20: Maybe pressed juices would help.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:51 AM
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I'm actually considering yoga. I mean going to a yoga class instead of just using Wii Fit. I'm afraid everyone will think I'm there to look at butts.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:52 AM
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25

Epically fuck old age before it epically fucks you.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:52 AM
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26

Explain that you're more of a breast man.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:52 AM
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Also, I would recommend a regular mattress with a separate memory foam topper. We love the memory foam on our mattress, but having it affixed means that we can only rotate the mattress for purposes of even wear and not flip it.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:53 AM
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I'm looking on Amazon. What do you guys have: 2"? 3"?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:53 AM
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Really wanted appropriate OPINIONATED GRANDMA for 27.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:54 AM
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I worry about sweating buckets with memory foam. Is that truly not a problem? I'm like a furnace at night (laydeez), so this is already a problem with a bog-standard mattress.

Also my flexibility is so poor that I've long considered yoga, but have been to one class-ever. Certainly I should be stretching after working out, but never seem to.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:57 AM
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I'm actually considering yoga.

When I see this my first reaction is Yayyy! But then I worry, because there are so many shitty yoga classes out there. If you go to a class and it seems weird and not useful, try a different teacher / style / studio. I find especially that a lot of teachers spend time in class talking about your breath, but don't actually integrate any of the breathing into doing yoga poses, leaving you wondering if it's just you who didn't get why this is supposed to be so great and restorative.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:58 AM
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Oh god, me too on the sweating buckets. Hmmm.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:58 AM
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33

I'm basically a human lawn sprinkler but I don't find our mattress particularly hot-making.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:01 AM
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The yoga classes I've been to (2, maybe?) have been the weird-not-useful variety, where at the end I was so bored and un-exercised that I was agitated. Afterwards I went running to calm down again.

In theory I'd enjoy the more well-run kind, based on the comments here, but at this moment am not going to budget the time for it.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:01 AM
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I'm basically a human lawn sprinkler

Spewy! How gross!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:02 AM
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26: I set up my damned dirty treehugging mat at the front of the room for that reason; I hate the thought of being one of those creepy, gawking yoga dudes.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:17 AM
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If I spend any amount of time immobile, whether that's sleeping, sitting at a desk, or driving, I take a good while to loosen up. I walk about like a crippled zombie for ages. I'd like to say that was old age [41] but I've been like that for at least 10 or more years.

I try to stretch a couple of times a day at work, and once in the evening, which helps a bit, but doesn't completely prevent it. I usually try to take a half hour walk at lunch time, if I can, too, for the same reason.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:23 AM
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38

To be honest, the Wii Fit yoga lady has a nice butt.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:23 AM
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39

Flippanter wants everybody to look at his butt!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:28 AM
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40

I've probably bitched about this here before, but Wii Fit yoga is so weird. All those poses where you're supposed to have one foot on the platform and one off? It's really different alignment if your feet aren't on the same plane! I do like the thing where you're entirely on the platform, like in tree pose, and it shows where your center of gravity is, and you can sway around and see how it moves.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:29 AM
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41

If I stretch for a minute or two before I get out of bed, it makes an enormous difference. I alternate pulling my knees to my chest, straightening them, bending my legs flat on the bed, etc. If I don't do that, I can't even stand up at the bathroom sink.

I also ruined my favorite spot on the sofa with too much bedrest and pregnant sitting and sitting with a baby, and I think my back and hips would feel better if I could find a new favorite spot.

Last time, though, a new mattress helped a lot (especially since the old one was a waterbed).


Posted by: bianca steele | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:32 AM
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42: I couldn't stand on one foot and raise the other more than a few inches when I started.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:37 AM
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I wonder if it's even possible to buy a new waterbed these days.

Here are my old wives' tales about sleeping and mattresses. First, definitely sleep on your back; you are fucking things up bad by sleeping on your side ir stomach. Second, the "one minute challenge." Lie on your back on your bed for a full minute. If you can't do so without desperately wanting to change positions, your mattress is too hard or too soft and you need another one.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:49 AM
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44

Do yoga and sleep on the hardest thing you can handle.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 9:04 AM
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I would fail the one minute challenge unless I had a pillow under my knees.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 9:08 AM
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46

try it on the floor with the pillow anywhere you want.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 9:11 AM
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Sleeping on the floor or camping, I toss and turn a lot more but don't necessarily feel as stiff in the morning. It aggravates different spots, like my hips instead of the small of my back. Hmmm.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 9:13 AM
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48

As long as I have a pillow for my head, I can sleep very well on a carpeted floor.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 9:13 AM
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49

This is for Flippanter.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 9:19 AM
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50

My theory is that a soft mattress requires the tiny supporting muscles in the back to tense in order to maintain a comfortable position. Over time, these muscles spasm, such that sleeping on anything that requires them to release is uncomfortable. As we all have tiny back spasms, a soft surface, which does not force the spine to stretch fully, is more comfortable. But the end result is more back spasm as we age, i.e., stiffness.

So the discomfort of lying on the floor is good for you and you should do it every now and then.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 9:20 AM
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When my dog and I visit my parents I keep him company down on the hardwood floor, and if I'm tired I've found i can nap there with no difficulty.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 9:22 AM
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There's certainly something like 52 going on with the muscles in the small of my back, but it's hard to see how they're supported on the floor, since laying on my back, they'll never touch the floor. It would have to be a pretty mushy mattress for the mattress to support them. And I don't even have the kind of curves that lovely women have. Not that I'm not lovely due to other reasons.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 9:53 AM
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The muscles aren't supported and that is the point, hg. It's the tiny spasm keeping them from relaxing fully, and you are feeling it because, on the floor, you aren't allowed to cradle into a depression. Though of course I have no way of knowing I would guess your curves are well-suited for this purpose.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:01 AM
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54

There is no evidence of this, but it seems like the small of your back ought to want arch support, like the arch of your foot. Unless your argument is essentially the barefoot running argument.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:07 AM
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As you know I do buy into the barefoot running. On the veldt they were all either barefoot or clad with the carcasses of dead rodents, which do not support the arch.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:21 AM
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My argument is essentially the barefoot running argument.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:22 AM
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After intermittent searching over a period of years I found a yoga class I like. Mostly what I like is that:

1. The teacher is normal. I.e. he's a slightly pudgy middle-aged guy who just happens to have been practicing yoga a long time. This is a nice contrast to all of those hyper-fit fanatically skinny young women who just make me feel like yoga is a competitive sport.

2. The teacher gives about four variations for every thing we do. This is enormously helpful for those of us who have no idea what the "easier" version of something would look like (i.e. the thing that lets you keep the alignment intended in the pose, while building up the strength or balance to do it completely.)

3. The teacher doesn't talk too much. Talking during alleged meditation just makes me feel like WE'RE NOT IN MEETING AND YOU AREN'T TESTIFYING SO PLEASE BE QUIET. He also doesn't do poorly thought through banal life-philosophizing. (Can you tell why I hated so many other teachers?)

A nice totally unanticipated benefit is that after 18 months of classes, I finally remember enough elements that I can do a 10- or 15-minute session at home without consciously thinking all the time "What's a yoga stretch? What am I going to do when I get out of this one? Why can't I remember anything we did in class?"


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:41 AM
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Funny, I've never felt jealous of yoga instructors or personal trainers, who are all mostly in better shape than me.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:45 AM
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I've said before that a latex mattress completely changed my relationship to sleep. And as someone who used to wake up very sore and very creaky -- this began in my teens, mind you -- I no longer do. Other than the limp, I mean, and that's not in any way the mattress's fault. Also, latex mattresses don't make me hot whereas memory foam ones do. If there's an Ikea near you, it's worth looking at their latex mattresses, which are much less expensive than the alternatives we saw but still quite comfy.

Having said all of that, I think mattresses may be the quintessential ymmv item.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:46 AM
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61.last: I'm gonna go with "cars" on that one.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:55 AM
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First, definitely sleep on your back; you are fucking things up bad by sleeping on your side ir stomach.

So, I have the back of an 80 year old and fucked up shoulders and neck. I also am naturally a stomach sleeper and have bad insomnia. If I try to force myself to sleep on my back, it makes my insomnia worse. If I let myself sleep on my stomach, my neck hurts when I wake up.

OT Apparently my boyfriend's ex-girlfriend is still not over him, 2 years after they broke up, and is very bitter he's dating me. I'm going to visit his hometown, where she currently lives and is still part of his friend group, and apparently she has been google stalking me, and based on available FB profile photos, has decided I am hideously ugly. I tend to think of myself as not ugly, and generally that's the impression I get from other people, though obvs. I am not an unbiased judge of my own attractiveness. Apparently she lives in a nice part of LA, was once occasionally part of Lindsey Lohan's entourage, and dresses accordingly. On the other hand, between growing up in the Pacific NW and hanging out with academics, my sense of style is roughly "outdoorsy lesbian chic," but I always figured my natural good looks would shine through the no make up or professional haircut and glasses and fleece vests. Am I wrong about this and should start studying the feminine arts of grooming? Is this standard ex-gf bitterness? I am not hoping to win any fashion awards, but I'd like to present in a way which is socially acceptable to mainstream US professional standards, if needs be, but I realize I have no clue what they are.


Posted by: Britta | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:57 AM
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Flippanter wants everybody to look at his butt!

I'm a humanitarian.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:02 AM
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63

Isn't it funny that when you say you're anything, it sounds ridiculous?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:11 AM
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64

I have been waking up with a stiff right index finger. :-(


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:14 AM
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But that's your gesturing-forcefully finger!!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:16 AM
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Now it gestures WAY too forcefully. So stiff.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:17 AM
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63: Without a doubt, you should always change yourself to seek the approval of people who don't like you over those who do.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:22 AM
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Anyone have a trick for teaching yourself to sleep on your back rather than side? I can only ever fall asleep on my side, but I'm slowly fucking up my shoulders I think.


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:25 AM
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A pillow under your knees might help.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:27 AM
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Is this standard ex-gf bitterness?

I'd guess two years means she's a tad crazy. For girly but outdoorsy stuff my wife gravitates towards things like Prana and Soybu. I think they're carried around here at REI and Scheels.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:27 AM
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63.2: This is why I have never envied people who feel themselves slotted as "pretty." Some of them live in terror that there might be some other value system in the world. But, simultaneously, they have to label other people as non-pretties so that everyone remembers that they are pretties.

I just had a long call with a friend here (the slutty one) who has started dating the boring pretty girl in town, who is terribly rude to me and him and everyone else, and then begs him for forgiveness on the basis that she is really insecure about her beauty and needs more reminders of how much lovelier she is than everyone else. She can't figure out why he would spend time with me unless he secretly thinks I'm prettier than her. Obviously I am not prettier than her. He hangs out with me because I am funny and smart. But it's really necessary for her to remind him of my inferior face and body and ask him to aver that this is so.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:37 AM
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70: my strategy was to get an Ikea pillow that keeps me from putting my shoulder under my head and otherwise saying screw it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:42 AM
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gswift.
Thanks for the links! There are definitely some things there that I would buy immediately if not for the grad student budget

AWB
Yeah. I've heard similar things about people who define their worth on being "pretty" when they start aging. I imagine the same thing does happen in the end to intellectuals when the mind gives out, but for beautiful people it happens in the 40s instead of the 80s.

I mean, I don't really care what this random girl thinks of me, nor does it change how I think of myself, but I'm wondering if there's an age when people start to have to start conforming more to conventional gendered grooming practices if they want to live as a normal person outside the PNW.


Posted by: Britta | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:43 AM
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On the topic of professional grooming, I find that people think I look like a real human woman when I pluck my brows (not a lot, but just out of grandpa-style furriness), have a reasonably fresh haircut, and wear mascara. If I worked in a business setting I'd probably have to do more than in hippie academia. On the east coast, having nails done also seemed important to people, as well as wearing reasonably feminine shoes--not necessarily heels, but something without a rubber/thick bottom.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:48 AM
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Not exactly the same thing, but I got Doc Martins for the first time. I'm trying to see if they help my feet as well as wear a bit harder. So far, mostly my feet just feel heavy when I wear them.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:01 PM
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It's weird to me that professional has anything to do with femininity, but it does. When I sometimes feel like bucking this, I dress like a hipster boy professor and wear a tie and button-down under a man's sweater with slacks. That is also allowed, I think. Or a mixture--tie and man's shirt, with a skirt and lipstick. But a failure to signify either gender is what seems to be perceived as unprofessional.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:01 PM
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I feel like my connective tissue somehow overshot the mark is tightening back up after Teapot was born. My flexibility has always been pretty poor, but now when I get up in the morning my feet feel tight, so that it's difficult to plant them flat on the floor and I have to hobble the first fifteen or twenty steps. Also I threw my back out yesterday for bonus decrepitude.


Posted by: Gabardine Bathyscaphe | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:02 PM
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78

In case no one's suggested it yet, Vitamin D.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:03 PM
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79

The obvious solution for heebie is to stop exercising so much.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:04 PM
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78: I think it's just because clothing that isn't gendered is low status (e.g. for kids or manual labor).


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:06 PM
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61 Much less expensive but still a thousand bucks. I sleep on my stomach or side with no pillow and it doesn't seem to cause me problems, but who knows long term. If I try sleeping on my stomach with a pillow I generally end up stiff, but that might be because I only use them if I'm sleeping on the floor or in a tent or I'm sick.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:08 PM
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If I sleep on my back I end up with black and blue marks on my left torso.

Snoring might have something to do with that.

I'm currently throwing myself a major pity party because I've injured my back (carrying stuff) and will have to sit around on a very nice weekend.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:14 PM
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on my left torso.

I've got like 30 goddamn torsos.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:19 PM
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82: Yes, probably true.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:19 PM
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This is why I have never envied people who feel themselves slotted as "pretty." Some of them live in terror that there might be some other value system in the world.

Isn't this really just, "insecurity is an ugly thing"?

After Heebie's link, a while back, of somebody saying, "why don't extroverts get any love; everybody respects introverts, but they just think extroverts are silly and frivolous." I'm convinced that it's human nature to get slightly jealous any time you see somebody else being praised for something you personally aren't very good at.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:21 PM
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82 is insightful.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:25 PM
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87: A friend of mine who is usually not very insightful shared the universal crush on the boring pretty girl until he realized that what everyone was reacting to simultaneously was not, in fact, some searing beauty that she has, but her intense insecurity about her looks, which interpellates all nearby straight men (who have the power to give her value) to pronounce her to be beautiful, repeatedly, and to compete for her sexually.

As I said to my other friend who is dating her, I don't understand why her insecurity is so compelling to men. It's not as if I'm secure about my looks because I'm so very hot. I'm secure about my looks through three decades of being told consistently that I'm not good-looking enough to deserve love by everyone from my mother to strangers. I'm a fucking adult, and I've fought for my lack of insecurity about my looks. How hard can it be when you're rich and thin and well-dressed and pursued by every man in town to stop acting cruel because of your insecurities about your looks? At 32 years old?


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:36 PM
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Of course she's insecure, because her value is appraised to be her looks, which makes her interchangeable with all gorgeous people. Gorgeous people are a dime a dozen.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:42 PM
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I guess I imagine if I were gorgeous, I'd want to make myself known for some other quality, like intelligence or kindness or something. But maybe I would get on that treadmill, too.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 12:45 PM
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Is there clothing that's well-fitting without being gendered? It makes sense that baggy clothing isn't professional.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 1:02 PM
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On the east coast, having nails done also seemed important to people, as well as wearing reasonably feminine shoes--not necessarily heels, but something without a rubber/thick bottom.

Huh, definitely haven't noticed this about nails. Not about shoes so much either, but I do live in scientist- and lesbian-filled Cambridge.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 1:09 PM
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now when I get up in the morning my feet feel tight, so that it's difficult to plant them flat on the floor and I have to hobble the first fifteen or twenty steps

I have this same thing! I had attributed it to ruining my feet by wearing Birkenstocks all summer, but maybe it is just a post-pregnancy thing.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 1:11 PM
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how much lovelier she is than everyone else

He's dating Yum-Yum from The Mikado?!


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 3:02 PM
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ps I thought it was sleeping on one's side that was healthiest. I have even tried to do so, though mostly because I thought I'd snore less if I slept on my side.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 3:07 PM
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He's dating Yum-Yum from The Mikado?!

Occasion for linking to "The Sun and I"


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 3:11 PM
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(In case I am making an inside joke mostly with myself, I explicit-make the little speech Yum-Yum gives right before "The Sun Whose Rays":

Yes, I am indeed beautiful! Sometimes I sit and wonder, in my artless Japanese way, why it is that I am so much more attractive than anybody else in the whole world. Can this be vanity? No! Nature is lovely and rejoices in her loveliness. I am a child of Nature, and take after my mother.

In my head this is in the voice of Shirley Henderson. Yes, Shirley Henderson is the voice of my aural hallucinations.)


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 3:24 PM
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I think you probably all do too much exercise. I am very lazy, and I am perfectly sprightly in the mornings.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 4:29 PM
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89: I don't understand why her insecurity is so compelling to men.

Because, over the eons and on the veldt, men discovered not contradicting an expressed insecurity means not getting laid.

She: "Oh, this old rag? I just threw it on".
He: "Yes dear, you do look much of a mess. Let's stay home instead of going to the gala".

Yeah, right.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:05 PM
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That doesn't make sense, Biohazard. The question is why an expressed insecurity would itself arouse interest, not why you would be interested in contradicting an expressed insecurity in someone in whom you were already interested.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:07 PM
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101: Because all het men have some background interest Geiger counter ticking no matter what. Softly and slowly perhaps, but ticking until death silences it.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:11 PM
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Maybe it's her hotness that compels, then.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:11 PM
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Somebody who expresses confidence probably wants to wait for somebody better to have sex with.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:12 PM
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It still doesn't follow; what you need isn't "no contradiction -> no sex" but rather "contradiction -> sex".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:13 PM
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I have an acquaintance who seeks out attractive but insecure girls. I suspect the appeal is that he's virtually assured they'll never break up with him regardless of how he treats them because they don't think they can do better. (Or what 104 says.) Maybe that's part of the appeal?


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:13 PM
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105: I don't think the contradiction is a relevant difference. People try to figure out what the other person wants them to say in that type of situation. Some people just drop much bigger hints.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:17 PM
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105: No. No contradiction kills the possibility, contradiction doesn't guarantee it. The contradiction just keeps the door ajar.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:17 PM
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Want to come back to my place and heighten the contradiction?


Posted by: Opinionated Karl Marx | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:18 PM
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84: Me also. It isn't that I never snore on my side, but that I always snore if I sleep on my back.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 5:19 PM
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Remedies: maybe backing off a bit at the gym, if you've introduced a new exercise or intensity?

94: Birkenstocks ruin feet? Oops?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:52 PM
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111.1: When I was still running to increase my miles, I could barely walk down stairs for the first fifteen minutes after waking. Awkward because the bedrooms are all on the second floor.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 6:53 PM
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112: Yeah. I get 2nd day stiffness when I've over-done things. And just to cheer y'all up, it gets considerably worse as you age, and then the NSAIDs will wreck your GI system, and then you have specialists poking things up your butt and down your throat, and all that.

Have a fun weekend.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:05 PM
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then you have specialists poking things up your butt and down your throat

Or as some people refer to them, "significant others".


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:06 PM
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114: Yes, in WeHo that probability is pretty high.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:09 PM
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Want to come back to my place and heighten the contradiction?

Or, as the French say, "vive la différence."


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:11 PM
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113: I run the numbers on stuff like that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:27 PM
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Also, dad is always on about something.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:36 PM
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Birkenstocks ruin feet? Oops?

Eh, I don't know if I can make that as a blanket statement, but after I've worn them for a long stretch, especially if I've been walking a distance in them, it hurts my feet to walk barefoot. Hurts might be too strong a word for the sensation. Annoys my feet? It's like my arches get whiny after they've been allowed not to do any work for a while.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 7:47 PM
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and then the NSAIDs will wreck your GI system

I'll just do it until I need glasses.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:13 PM
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oh hai, I wrote new blogs. http://thesearefireants.tumblr.com


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:39 PM
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That story was confusing. What kind of pie was it?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:47 PM
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The pie is his father. And his mother.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:51 PM
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Oh right, like in Don't Tell Mom, The Babysitter's Dead.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 8:55 PM
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119

With Birkenstocks, I've head that they can flatten and widen you feet if worn for long periods of time, like decades.

My problem is that I think I am reasonably stylish and well-groomed, but my sense of style is different enough from mainstream American norms so as to make my instincts in that department worthless. E.g. I have this fleece jacket that I think looks really sexy on me, but when I casually mentioned this to a good friend of mine, she got this look of disbelief and horror on her face and told me that fleece was the unsexiest fabric in existence, and I was completely delusional. I also think I dress to flatter my figure in a way that is flirty but not too sexy, but I have had multiple people, including my boyfriend, tell me I dress modestly in a way that hides my figure. I don't really care about looking conventionally "hot" on a regular basis, but I don't want to, say, go for a job interview thinking I'm projecting "sleek and stylish professional," and have the interviewee thinking I'm projecting "lesbian park ranger." Maybe nail polish and mascara are a good place to start? What's the deal with concealer and foundation and toner and BB creams and all those other things women are supposed to rub on their face? Can people really notice if you're not wearing any of them? Do they make a difference? What about hair products? Also, is there a way to avoid the makeup learning curve in one's 30s? I missed the teen years where you're allowed to have bad clown makeup, but now I avoid makeup in part because when I put it on I look worse than I did before.

It seems with a lot of this, the important thing is that you're signaling you've spend money and effort, which, as someone who doesn't like spending money and effort on my appearance on a regular basis, feels annoying. Is this just something required of adults and I need to suck it up, or are there shortcuts to looking polished that women not raised by hippies and Afghan refugees* learn as a kid?

*my beloved daycare provider, and one of the most beautiful woman I knew, was a refugee from Afghanistan in the late 1980s. I remember how I used to admire her luxurious black leg hair that sometimes poked out of her shalwar kameez.


Posted by: Britta | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 9:54 PM
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What's the deal with concealer and foundation and toner and BB creams and all those other things women are supposed to rub on their face? Can people really notice if you're not wearing any of them? Do they make a difference?

It's like you haven't even read the archives.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:05 PM
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I don't want to, say, go for a job interview thinking I'm projecting "sleek and stylish professional," and have the interviewee thinking I'm projecting "lesbian park ranger."

God, it has taken me YEARS of practice to get used to the kind of dress/skirt that is cut close to the thighs below the hips. Now I wear dresses like that all the time, but when I was first getting interview outfits, it just felt really abnormally slutty to wear a pencil*-skirt, or even just a straight-cut skirt. I think all forced-feminization-for-professional-reasons feels this way. If you're not used to wearing makeup, it feels goofy as hell.

My advice is to practice putting on way too much makeup one weekend several times in a row and take some selfies, just to get used to seeing how it looks. Watch some Youtube makeup tutorials (there are about 4 million) that show natural-looking but made-up faces, buy a few things (mascara, powder, lipstick, maybe some eyeliner/shadow) and just play with them. Have a warm damp washcloth ready so if you need to start over, you can do it right away. But practice overdoing it until it's kind of fun and you stop taking the natural face to be your only face.

The other approach would be to say, fuck it, I am a grown-ass lady and if someone thinks I'm a lesbian park ranger that is exactly what they are welcome to think. (I am not at liberty to do this.)

* - Nothing on my butt could possibly resemble a pencil.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:06 PM
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That is, if you play with makeup in the same mood as putting on a ridiculous Halloween costume, you can use that as a way of figuring out how to put it on way too much, and then dial it back for daily wear.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 10:08 PM
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That takes so much time for such a carefully boring result. Phooey.

Double phooey that the PNW is moving from hiking wear to yoga wear. Seattle, anyway.

I have known one woman dress simply and comfortably and signal professionalism with a lovely string of pearls. Fine bones, though, might not work for everyone.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:16 PM
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||
The shell popped off the passenger side curtain airbag going over the Siskiyous. Should I try putting it back on before I get back to the cities? That's only hours, not days.
|>


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 08-31-13 11:21 PM
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124: No.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 12:39 AM
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When I stretch (or mobilise, to use the new term) before going to bed I wake up feeling less stiff. When I don't, particularly if I'm exercising, I wake up feeling creaky. Consistency is the key to me.

What you want, is to become a supple leopard.
http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Supple-Leopard-Preventing-Performance/dp/1936608588

(Goofy title, but apparently good book. I don't own it.)


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 2:32 AM
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Nothing on my butt could possibly resemble a pencil ... Gentlemenz?


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 5:11 AM
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Fly, lesbian park ranger! Fly free!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 5:15 AM
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131: Right, I typed "Don't Tell Mom, The Babysitter's Dead" when I meant to type "Catullus."


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 5:29 AM
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Britta, is there a reason for you to wear makeup, other than wanting to look more put together and professional? Outside of certain corporate environments, I don't think of makeup as being a necessity for women. (Also excepting jobs where your role is to project a certain image, I suppose, like hostess at a trendy restaurant.) Certainly not in academia. Being well groomed /= wearing makeup!

It seems to me that working on your wardrobe might get you more mileage. If there's really that much of a mismatch between what you like wearing and/or think is appropriate for particular situations and what your trusted friends say, it might be worth the effort to try to find your way to something in the middle: clothes in which you still feel like 'you' but that are flattering and that project the image you're going for.

(Obviously if makeup is something you're wanting to do, then on with the experimentation.)


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 5:45 AM
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125: I basically live in the fashion space you're describing, except that I don't think my normal mode of dress conveys lesbian park ranger so much as unkempt.

Mostly I deal by putting it out of my mind -- it may have limited my career, but so have so many other things. If you think people really expect makeup, though, a little lipstick takes no skill, if you've had a saleswoman sell you a color that doesn't look strange on you, and signifies 'I'm wearing makeup' as well as doing it properly.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 5:53 AM
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Or what Blume said. For the dumbed down version, tighter/more fitted than you'd normally buy looks more 'professional'.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 6:09 AM
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Also avoid umbrella hats.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 6:12 AM
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I vote for drapey cashmere in interesting cuts and colors! You can't go wrong. (It will be seriously expensive--look for secondhand Eileen Fisher, but ixnay on anything too boxy.)


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 6:46 AM
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That is, if you play with makeup in the same mood as putting on a ridiculous Halloween costume

So what you're saying is go to job interviews dressed as a sexy witch, right? I so wish I had done this for the interview for the skype interview I had for a job I didn't really want.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 6:52 AM
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So what you're saying is go to job interviews dressed as a sexy witch, right?

Sexy fire hydrant! Sexy self-help book!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 7:01 AM
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Sexy self-help fire hydrant in an umbrella hat!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 7:03 AM
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I mean, if you really want the job.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 7:03 AM
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Blume

I don't think there's any pressing need to change how I look on a regular basis, I think it's more just wishing I knew how if I had to or if I want to, like for a night out or if I'm attending a conference or job interview. In terms of being professional, I think I'm reasonably well dressed for academia, and I definitely don't feel any pressure to change how I look. I guess a part of it is feeling like I wish I knew how to do the minimal "natural look" makeup, and a part of it is the disconnect between assuming I'm dressing in a certain way, and having people tell me I'm dressing in a different way. I think that I am uncomfortable in low-cut or tight clothing. Too far is inappropriate for an academic setting, but I might err too far in the other direction.


Posted by: Britta | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 7:11 AM
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is all that tight and almost none of it sluttish. None of it is affordable, either, but it's a possible direction, I think.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 7:19 AM
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To disagree a little with Blume: I have a theory that you can get away with being a little more relaxed in terms of clothing if your hair and make-up are polished. So if you don't want to change up your wardrobe much, learning how to do a natural look might be worth it.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 7:31 AM
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144 stands, I am glad to see, uncontested.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 7:40 AM
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The hot dog vendor by my old office would always wear an umbrella hat.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:09 AM
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almost none of it sluttish.

almost (the odd thing to me is that the headline -- "mellow in Milan." That is not what I would think of as a "mellow" look.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:26 AM
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I think that I am uncomfortable in low-cut or tight clothing.

We're still using the Seattle definitions of these words, right? I rarely see professional women in low-cut clothing at work, unless there is also a jacket or a stupid sweater. It isn't "tight" you want, but "fitted" or "tailored". I don't know know the women's clothing definition of "fitted" but for men it used to use mean that the shoulders/neck/arms of the jacket fit right. I gather this may be changing. At least all my new pants are tight enough that I have to watch that I don't smash things.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:34 AM
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Sexy lampshade. Sexy voting precinct. Sexy adverb. Sexy blog comment.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:14 AM
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Moby,

Yep. It turns out that Seattle* slutty is LA business casual. Seattle business casual is...not generally worn in any major city in the US.

*well, Portland, but Portland is if anything less stylish than Seattle.


Posted by: Britta | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:21 AM
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It's true that I'm often struck by just how bad people, on average, look in other cities. I guess maybe the cause is excessive frumpiness, which on most people doesn't really work as a look past 25 or so and isn't super awesome before then. Still, I don't think "business casual" here is particularly revealing, it just means wearing clothes that aren't baggy.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 11:33 AM
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it just means wearing clothes that aren't baggy.

And not even that necessarily all over -- you can be coastally on trend right now with the voluminous above/form fitting below silhoutte, or its inverse -- but, also, there's definitely a higher proportion of "oh gee, that's downright hoochie" in a given sampling of people on the sidewalk in SoCal than in other parts of the country I've lived.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 12:23 PM
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I guess it's also unfair to conflate voluminous with baggy.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 12:24 PM
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God hates your outfit. Can't quite make out the bible verse, something in Leviticus.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 12:28 PM
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It's true that I'm often struck by just how bad people, on average, look in other cities. I guess maybe the cause is excessive frumpiness, which on most people doesn't really work as a look past 25 or so and isn't super awesome before then.

For totally selfish reasons, I prefer a median of slightly less superassiduous grooming than you get in Southern California. It's a little daunting/disconcerting when the streets are full of people with blindingly white teeth, perfect pedicures, zero body hair, and 100% frizz-free head hair all the time.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 12:28 PM
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164: well, based on context it would be surprising if it were something other than 19:19 (mixing fibers in your outfit was a big no-no).


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 12:47 PM
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Old Testament God seems to have had time to get into the details.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 12:50 PM
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165: I think I've told of flying to visit my folks, landing at the airport, and suddenly feeling sleek and chic. It's all about selecting the right comparison class...


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 12:51 PM
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Your folks live in my area?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 12:59 PM
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If you are in a room full of people smarter than you are, you can learn from them. But if you are in a room full of people who are prettier than you are, you just look dumpy with no real benefit.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:02 PM
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170: Yes, actually.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:02 PM
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171: that's not true. If you are in a room full of people prettier than you, you look prettier than you usually do.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:04 PM
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171: Not so, you could be peforming the "Tiny Tim" service for them (looking upon him might remind others of who healed the sick and let the blind see, etc.).


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:05 PM
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Cite for 173.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:07 PM
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172: I'm not saying if I remembered that or if badly dressed people are in such a preponderance here that I guessed.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:15 PM
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||

The Wikipedia page for Heebie U slips into first person from time to time. Also it is just a hilarious hack job with lines like: "Both tennis teams play home matches. They would love to have Heebie U fans there supporting them."

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:21 PM
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||

Boy this suited my grievous mood

First I heard Warren Haynes, and then I went looking and found

Doug Martsch ...20 minutes of music for the apocalypse

Since Nowadays Clancy and Broken Arrow, through River and Cowgirl and Goldrush and Maid and Last Dance, NY, especially with his guitar, has communicated

an epic sense of loss

|>


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:29 PM
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Maybe a nice tennis game will cheer you.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:47 PM
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Seattle business casual is...not generally worn in any major city in the US.

Are you saying Anchorage isn't a major city?

(About a year ago some website declared Anchorage the worst dressed city in the country. Most people here reacted with pride.)


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:52 PM
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I guess on a close reading of the quote she might even be saying that Seattle isn't a major city.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 1:53 PM
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I for work one time I ended up at a fairly fancy hotel in Newport Beach, I was going to small very casual place, and my casual is certainly not Newport Beach casual much less standard coiffed pigfucking business getup. Boy did I stand out*. Apparently you were meant to use the extensive blow dryer/hair care setup in the outer bathroom.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 2:01 PM
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* actually, Stormcrow was lying on the floor.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 2:02 PM
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I went to a fancy resort for a conference once. Amongst the physicists I was extraordinarily well dressed. Amongst the regular guests, not so much.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 2:06 PM
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183*: I was going to say the result in your link in 171 probably does not hold for a member of the group who was a badly-dressed outlier.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 2:07 PM
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||

This Page has versions by The Church and Buffalo Tom w J Maclis. The latter got it.

I am at 52 straight minutes of Cortez

Still looking for Indigo Girls, Melissa Nadler, and Calexico

Been a long time since I have listened to the Berg Violin Concerto

sorry apo

|>


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 2:10 PM
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For the same vendor, several of us went out a few days early one time to hike in Anza-Borrego. After a long final day we got to a (not as fancy, but still somewhat fancy) place in Laguna Beach. Pulling into the driveway our torn and dusty condition suddenly impressed itself on me and I stopped short and said, "We can't go in there!"


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 2:16 PM
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I'm just going to assume that on a close reading that will somehow reveal that Stormcrow was in the Pageant of the Masters.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 2:35 PM
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185: yeah, probably not.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 2:53 PM
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187 Back in college while backpacking in the Cascades with my parents, my parents decided that they wanted to stay in a nice place after a week long hike rather than the generic motel we'd originally planned on. When my dad and I walked up to the desk the clerk was looking at us with our stinking sweat stained dirty clothes (and bodies) with a lot of suspicion. You'd think a hotel in a mountain resort would be used to that, they certainly are in Switzerland and France.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 3:11 PM
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187, 190: Showing up pretty much anywhere after Burning Man induces this effect in spades, needless to say. I eventually just started brazening it out (surprise, surprise).


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 3:15 PM
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Showing up pretty much anywhere coming from Montana induces this effect in spades.

Blind though I may be to fashion, I've been struck that people in Quebec City seemed better dressed than anywhere I've been in the US, including SoCal.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 3:21 PM
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I find 173 to be true. Surrounded by hot people, people tend to think I'm also hot. Surrounded by frumpier people, I am seen as frumpy.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 4:18 PM
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Surrounded by Canadians, do you say "eh" all the time?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 4:40 PM
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192: also true of Montreal. A city filled with beautiful and immaculately dressed (multicultural) people speaking a variant of French that makes my ears bleed.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 5:29 PM
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Maybe I should visit. I doubt I can tell French as bastardized by Canadians from regular French.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 5:36 PM
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Nope. Turns out it is very far from here. Toronto is close, but as far as I know, there is no reason to visit Toronto.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 5:58 PM
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Toronto is a great city. And the people there, at least the people who speak English, speak a variant of English that is music to my ears. Regardless, yeah, it's probably, what, ten hours from you to Montreal (if you include the border crossing)?


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 6:00 PM
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Of course, that would take me right by Buffalo. I've never been there and I can't imagine just driving through it without stopping. It probably takes at least a week to see it all and then I'd have no time for Canada.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 6:01 PM
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Do they check your vehicle closely when you enter? I think that cigarette "arbitrage" could pay for most the cost of a vacation there if you could get enough in.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 6:08 PM
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187, 190: I've always enjoyed showing up reeking and stained at a nice hotel: the best occasion was the Bellagio in Vegas after 10+ rafting in the Grand Canyon.

Astonishingly, the bachelorette party checking in before me were uncharmed by Flippanter and his tart-catchers* greasy stubble.

* Per Flashman.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 6:26 PM
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193: surrounded by the in-laws one need never again be.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 6:27 PM
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At some point I'm going to have to read these flashman books, despite the fact that (at this place) only lawyers seem to show any love for them.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 6:51 PM
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203: at no place have I found the tastes of lawyers to vary meaningfully from the tastes of other people. there are unfortunately tasteless people of all kinds.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 7:01 PM
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||

I put some house music I made a long time ago online. You'll like it! It's good, it's weird! Have at it!

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 7:20 PM
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thanks sifu. I like it very much so far.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 7:55 PM
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On the topic of checking into a hotel sketchily, I was on tour with nine other dudes, and we wanted to get one hotel room for all of us. We pulled into the hotel so as to avoid being seen by the front desk (we were in a mini-bus with a band name emblazoned on the side). Two guys went in and got a room. We all hung out in the bus for a while, then peeled off, one by one, and went to the room and hung out there. This isn't actually a very good story, now that I type it out.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:03 PM
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Stanley finally got one right.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:07 PM
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This isn't actually a very good story, now that I type it out.

You should have included a pun.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:09 PM
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In hindsight, I would say fitting ten dudes in a room constitutes a brotel.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:16 PM
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That's better.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:19 PM
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Stanley gets another one right!


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:22 PM
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203 IANAL and I loves me some Flashman. Flashman and the Tiger is my current subway reading.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:27 PM
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199 is puzzling. Do you have family in Buffalo? Toronto is a wonderful city, but I can't see spending much time in Buffalo without people to visit.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:47 PM
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||
My husband, a frequent commenter, has just provided me with a marvelous and wholly satisfying example of the cocksman's art, and should be lauded accordingly.

That is all.
|>


Posted by: Hannah Hoes | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 8:55 PM
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I knew "kinderhook" had to be some kind of euphemism.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 9:20 PM
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The charms of Buffalo.


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 9:48 PM
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Given the title and topic does there really need to be a pause/play?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 9:58 PM
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I was just going to lament the lack of morning stiffie jokes in this thread after heebie set herself up for it so well, but 215 makes up for that to some extent.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 9:58 PM
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218 makes a good point, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 9:59 PM
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And the people there, at least the people who speak English, speak a variant of English that is music to my ears.

What, really?! Some of my best friends (and I mean, about half of my family) live in Toronto, but their speech has never sounded particularly mellifluous to me. What am I missing?

I was in Montreal a few weeks ago for the first time in many years. I had forgotten how much more stylish they are in Montreal than in any English Canadian city than I can think of. I mean, the standards are just that much higher there. Also, I ordered an omelette at my second-rate, cheap-ish hotel, and holy crap! it was ridiculously delicious. They take food more seriously in Montreal than in Toronto: the standards are just that much higher.

Went to a Jesuit Mass (yes, that was why I was in Montreal), where we prayed, in both English and French, for those who are "victims of persecution for their sexual orientation." My sisters and I were struck by the raffish and insouciant stylishness of the young Jesuit novitiates: we decided this must be the hipster order of the Canadian RC Church, for sure. Also, they have to do serious graduate-level studies in philosophy and theology, so: beauty plus brains. And stylishness.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:01 PM
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Haven't the Jesuits sort of always been the hipster order of the Church as a whole?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:04 PM
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"than I can think of" s/b "that I can think of," obviously.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:04 PM
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210: Well we "[kept] it together" for over 200 comments.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:06 PM
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My father isn't a lawyer and he likes the Flashman books.

I could totally ride my bike out to Pt. Reyes, right? It's 45 miles one way to a hostel, but on the way back one could catch a ferry if necessary?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:26 PM
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Haven't the Jesuits sort of always been the hipster order of the Church as a whole?

Counter-Reformation period, they were the shock troops of the Catholic baroque. They used to put on pyro-technic spectacles in churches that were stunning and exciting (and frankly dangerous) attempts to catechize the common people.

And then someone decided to take Iggy's Spiritual Exercises somewhat seriously, and the Jesuits have tilted left ever since. In Canada (New France), they were obviously instruments of a brutal Euro-supremacist colonial policy, but they distinguished themselves by actually learning the languages of the First Nations peoples they were sent to convert, and then by expressing (an admittedly Eurocentric) sort of sympathy with les sauvages. So, yeah: they were sort of hipsterish even in the 18th century.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:27 PM
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218: Sorry about the cramps?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:34 PM
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Er, 215 not 218.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:34 PM
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225: Where would catch the ferry from? Larkspur, I guess, but that doesn't seem like it'd really get you much.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:36 PM
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I dunno, it would save fifteen miles (assuming one caught a bus coming back from Embarcadero). That's not nothing.

I was just going to lament the lack of morning stiffie jokes in this thread after heebie set herself up for it so well,

Given the fact that she mentioned that potential in the post itself, I think it's gratifying that no one went to such an obvious well.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:44 PM
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Given the fact that she mentioned that potential in the post itself, I think it's gratifying that no one went to such an obvious well.

Different strokes, I guess.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:49 PM
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For different horses.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:49 PM
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I assumed teo was consciously responding to h-gs exhortation in the OP.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:50 PM
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233: Your assumption is correct.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:53 PM
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We;; arem
t yppi twp kist tpta;;y om time wotj pme amptjer/


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:55 PM
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Sorry, there's a typo in 235. It should be "ypi", not "yppi".


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:55 PM
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no one went to such an obvious well.

IYKWIM


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 10:58 PM
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Apparently, two men's tune is another man's annoyance.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 1-13 11:07 PM
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Some men are easily annoyed.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:09 AM
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It's 45 miles one way to a hostel, but on the way back one could catch a ferry if necessary?

Do those ferries, always a bit cramped, still offer the same accommodations what with the downsizing?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:24 AM
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I'm currently in a weird style bubble (CERN, ie scientists & French people) and I'm pretty sure I was spoken to in English this morning because my outfit read "functional" ("scientist") and not "fashionable" (French).

I'm now feeling a tad self-conscious. Style just seems like so much work and money (shopping, hair cuts, makeup), and there's so much regional variation...


Posted by: parodie | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:27 AM
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When I was a child I thought I could imitate a genuine allusion. Later I learned that one can't be imitated.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:40 AM
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The last time I was in Rome, I encountered a bunch of American (I guess possibly Canadian) Jesuit novitiates in a religious tchotchkes store, who were so over the top femmy-gay-seeming that they would have been embarrassing stereotypes in a 1980s movie. That seems comsistent with ither stuff I've heard about the order these days. Though I love the Jesuits and think they're wonderful badasses.

Point Reyes is amazing, however you get there.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 1:35 AM
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There's nothing funny about a morning stiffie. I'm surprised no one has made any levitation jokes, though.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 5:35 AM
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215: Excellent pseud, Hannah, especially for the subject matter of your inaugural comment.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 5:52 AM
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I didn't actually notice anything special about Montreal and Quebec City style during my brief visit about 10 years ago. Could be that stylish people aren't in the youth hostels, or maybe I don't see fashion.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 5:56 AM
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214: I don't know anybody there. I just assume there must be something spectacular there that everybody is trying to keep to themselves by slandering the city.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 6:37 AM
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Happy Labor Day! I made a mix for the occasion: Labor Day 2013 - Free to Organize

I should really make these mixes on International Workers Day, but May 1 is the end of spring semester, and I am always bogged down with work.

Playlist:

1. "Free to organize" Franklin Bruno
2. "¿Which Side Are You On?" Ani DiFranco
3. "There Is Power in a Union" Billy Bragg
4. "Navigator" The Pogues
5. "John Henry" Bruce Springsteen
6. "Take This Hammer" Lead Belly
7. "The Day John Henry Died" Drive-By Truckers
8. "Banks of Marbles" IWW
9. "Pretty Boy Floyd" Woodie Guthrie
10. "A World Turned Upside Down" Clandestine
11. "Solidarity Forever" Pete Seeger
12. "The Times They Are A-Changin'" Bob Dylan
13. "The Internationale" Billy Bragg


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 7:32 AM
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241: being fashionable and being stylish are two very different things. You are signalling something by not bothering with either, but any sort of effort at style (vs functional or doesn't care) will be picked up on positively. If you actually want to be fashionable, it'll take work.

Earlier posts about Montreal & Quebec City match my experience, especially outside of the touristy bits of Montreal. The only American city playing that game at a similar level I know of is (part of) New York, but ithat seems a very different dynamic. Chicago and Boston don't seems to care as much. Some southern cities seem to care a bit but not nearly as universally, and generally the relevance of style seems to drop off as you go west in both countries. I'm sure there are pockets everywhere.


Posted by: Dee Lurking | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 7:33 AM
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I'm sure there are pockets everywhere.

Not on spandex pants.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 7:37 AM
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250: au contraire!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 7:37 AM
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192: I've been struck that people in Quebec City seemed better dressed than anywhere I've been in the US

I've not been (sadly), but this echoes the observations of my fashion-noticing brother-in-law who at the time was not being that successful at flogging high-end (read relatively expensive) casual wear in the States. His view was that if we slobs were more like the Québécois* he would have been doing much better.

*Including Montreal.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 7:42 AM
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241 I'm currently in a weird style bubble (CERN, ie scientists & French people)

What brings you there? (I'm afraid the only fact I've learned about you in years of reading your comments is that you're Canadian.)


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 7:49 AM
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essear and parodie are about to discover that they actually know each other, and have collaborated on articles before.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 8:28 AM
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Do you like pina coladas, searching for subatomic particles again?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 9:43 AM
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Yes, I like tiny coladas.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 9:48 AM
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I like superconducting super coladas


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 10:26 AM
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That was horrible.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 10:26 AM
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Not as horrible as a song where the happy ending is because a couple realizes that they share a common desire for a rum flavored with coconut and inept infidelity.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 10:30 AM
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I like superconducting super coladas.

Too bad you were denied. You'll have to make due with a large hadron colada instead.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 10:35 AM
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I should probably start seriously trying to prepare for the class I'm teaching starting tomorrow. On the other hand, it's a holiday.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 10:40 AM
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261: Heh. I'm currently jumping back and forth between websurfing and slide making.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 10:47 AM
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205 is available for procrastinating on other things.

In other news, bandcamp's stats page is sort of hilariously depressing in its way.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 11:04 AM
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OT: My phone just started trading talking to me. I must have turned on google-siri, but I don't recall installing it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 11:31 AM
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I'm spending my day updating my CV. Why? Because, having agreed -- but only as a favor to a friend -- to referee a fifth tenure case this summer, I've just been told that the candidate's institution requires a "up-to-date CV." Which is to say, after spending several days reviewing an only-okay file, I now need to spend another day on this bullshit. And yes, I know that I shouldn't have allowed my CV to get this out of date. Still, this is annoying, as I have other things I'd rather be doing than trying to figure out the dates I gave talks up and down the Front Range last year.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 11:44 AM
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Does anyone ever actually do anything with the part of a CV that lists all the talks anyone has ever given? I can't imagine what useful information it could possibly convey.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 11:48 AM
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I mean, I guess I could correlate mine with Unfogged comments I've made to see where I was spending the most time bored in hotel rooms or something.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 11:49 AM
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265: I can tell you when you gave a talk in Albuquerque. Except my datebook is over there somewhere.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:02 PM
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When you are fresh out of grad school and on the job market for the first time, the talks given section can be really informative. It shows that even if you don't have publications yet, you are putting stuff out there.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:08 PM
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Which is to say, after spending several days reviewing an only-okay file

Only okay should be good enough for tenure! That's my opinion!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:14 PM
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Only okay should be good enough for tenure!

Agreed! (At least in this case!)


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:15 PM
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I think 269 is right. Beyond that, it's a way to signal to people that you're busy and in demand, I guess, and that you have a huge carbon footprint.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:16 PM
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Mostly, though, my Vita is ugly (if someone wants to fix this for me, please just let me know), bloated, and rather poorly organized. I really hate it a lot and resent having to think about it.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:18 PM
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Tenure for everyone!


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:19 PM
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Only okay should be good enough for tenure!

HELL YES. Please.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:38 PM
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Only okay should be good enough for tenure! That's my opinion!

Mine too!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:43 PM
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it's a way to signal to people that you're busy and in demand

I hate being busy and in demand.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:43 PM
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269: I see. So I guess it's one of those humanities / social sciences things. I skipped all the postdoc applications from people with no publications yet, and was kind of uncomfortable with the otherwise really good candidate who only had three papers published in grad school.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 12:45 PM
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In physics it's normal for grad students to have more than three papers? What do the journals print, laundry lists? Essays on which boson makes you think of which American president?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 1:18 PM
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279: Obviously essear is the one to answer that, but my impression is that in the HEP theory world, the pace of publication is pretty high.

This issue is key for putting together promotion/tenure committees. You need people from the right subfield so the candidate doesn't get unfairly slammed.

A publication record that's very solid in one subfield might be considered very thin in another and vice versa.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 1:24 PM
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279: Just ordinary papers. I had five, which is pretty typical. If someone is actively doing research in grad school for four years, it's not unreasonable to expect them to put out a paper a year. My advisor wrote fifteen papers as a student, but that's kind of insane.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 1:54 PM
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Graviton: Taft
Photon: Madison
W Boson: George W. Bush
Z Boson: Polk
Higgs Boson: Washington
Gluon: FDR


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 1:59 PM
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5/6, beamish. The correct answer is "Gluon: Lincoln".


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 2:05 PM
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I stand corrected


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 2:06 PM
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I don't know, was Lincoln colorful enough?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 2:08 PM
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One of the postdocs in my lab has published four papers a year since his third year of grad school. It would be fair to say he's an outlier, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 2:31 PM
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Huh. In math grad school it takes at least four years to just catch up on the literature.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 2:59 PM
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If you're going to try to relate it to earlier work, it's going to take forever to write a paper.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 3:05 PM
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But math is so incremental that the only way most people can make a contribution is by relating it to earlier work. A good example is the work improving the result that there are infinitely many prime pairs 70 million apart to the current bound of 5000. You would have to read a bunch of papers to just understand the proof of the 70 million result, in order to understand the proof techniques just to improve on them.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 3:16 PM
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That's probably mostly because math is much more anal about nailing down all the details.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 3:47 PM
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That's probably mostly because math is much more anal about nailing down all the details.

Than my field?!? I never!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 3:51 PM
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I never use tags correctly, that is.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 3:51 PM
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I think papers that have empirical data or alleged empirical data are very different from those using proofs. You don't really worry about confirmation, replication, generalizability, and related shit.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 3:57 PM
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205: I appreciate.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 4:14 PM
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I posted five papers to the arxiv during graduate school, but that's partly because I did some side projects early on and partly because I waited 7 years to graduate. Something between 0 and 2 is typical, though I had friends with as many as 15.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 4:42 PM
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Me too.


Posted by: Opinionated House in 2006 | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 4:42 PM
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296 to 294.


Posted by: OHIT | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 4:44 PM
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I had one paper in submission when I graduated, although it had been in submission for two years at that point. It was unrelated to my dissertation.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 5:31 PM
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I'm sure we've seen this before.t


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 5:37 PM
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Probably by somebody who posted the link without an error.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 5:38 PM
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||

A FB comment in my feed implies that Texas A&M has classes on Labor Day. Didn't maybe stormcrow or someone else live there for a spell? Who might verify?

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 5:52 PM
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Seems that way.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 5:56 PM
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I lived in Houston and worked with a surfeit of Aggies whilst there. But I have no idea as to the state of its classiness or otherwise on Labor Day. It seems that some college I've come across did have classes on Labor Day and/or other holidays. (And this thread (from 2007) would indicate that it is not that uncommon.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 6:11 PM
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I had class today. Right-to-work state, woo!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 6:14 PM
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304: Yeah, my brief search also turned up Virginia Tech.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 6:20 PM
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Did you google "destroyed the Big East"?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 6:37 PM
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I was surprised to see some private colleges have class today. Even when my (public) school had reportedly the longest semester in the country - started in the third week of August; I had my last final somewhere around December 20 - we had Labor Day off. We had two days for Thanksgiving. No Columbus Day and I'm not sure about Veteran's Day.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 6:47 PM
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For us, Columbus Day is observed the day after Thanksgiving.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 7:31 PM
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And Rosh Hashanah is transfered to the week after Christmas.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 7:35 PM
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In my field after you submit something, they tell you to do more experiments. Then you do half the experiments they ask for because the other half are impossible, and you send it to a different journal, and they tell you to do more experiments that are unrelated to the ones requested by the first journal. Then you run out of money and the graduate student now has been out of the lab for 2 years and has no chance at an academic career anyway, so you send it to PLoS One.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 8:37 PM
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301: Staff have off here, but not faculty or students. It's not labor if you LOVE IT, folks!


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 8:47 PM
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Have I mentioned (I probably have!) that I'm working on edits to an article that the editors (not in my field) want because they thought my article was totally acceptable, but they sent it to people in my field to review it, who think I'm a moron.

The reason I sent it to the journal not in my field is I already know what people in my field think about my work. Duh, they hate it.

So both reviewers said "Oh God this is wretched," basically, and one of them went so far as to say that reading it made her impatient and outraged.

But it's accepted. The editors are like, eh, if you can do something about their complaints, please do, but if not, just get it back to us with the citations changed to house style by X date.

It's a weird line to walk in revisions. I've actually gone ahead and fixed most of the reviewers' concerns, but now I think it might be too much of a change to make the editors happy.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 8:51 PM
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It's not labor if you LOVE IT, folks!

Everybody who shows up gets a free epidural!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 9:39 PM
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312: What's the chance that if you submit and say "ignore the reviewers in my field, they'll never be satisfied", the journal editors will reply "Gotcha... I started out in Asiatic early modernism."?


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 10:12 PM
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PMP!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 10:17 PM
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221: I hope someone else thought of this when contemplating stylish gay Jesuits.

And Teofilo, I'm glad to be back. Far too often, it means I'm drunk and at loose ends. But I'm unemployed for the moment, so perhaps these loose ends will last!


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 10:48 PM
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Sorry to hear about the unemployment, but it is nice to see you around.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 10:51 PM
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Oh, it's no problem really. I'll likely find a job, it's just likely to be in private wealth management rather than foundations. Not quite what I hoped, but there should still be a good chance to work with excellent people.

It's just annoying how few positions there are in finance where you both work with brilliant people and work collectively toward a positive social end. Ah well, that's the way of massively abstracted fields, I suppose.

(the above ignores finance professorships at top universities, but those are essentially fairy tales as far as I can see)


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 11:07 PM
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It's just annoying how few positions there are in finance where you both work with brilliant people and work collectively toward a positive social end. Ah well, that's the way of massively abstracted fields, I suppose.

I suspect this is a particularly acute problem in finance compared to other fields, actually.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09- 2-13 11:14 PM
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Hail, PMP. Good to see you despite the circs.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 12:34 AM
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I can't believe Malick didn't direct Aint Them Bodies Saints.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 12:42 AM
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PMP!! Sorry about the job situation.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 1:15 AM
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||

NMM2 Frederick Pohl.

|>


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 1:16 AM
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I lived in Houston and worked with a surfeit of Aggies whilst there. But I have no idea as to the state of its classiness or otherwise on Labor Day. It seems that some college I've come across did have classes on Labor Day and/or other holidays. (And this thread (from 2007) would indicate that it is not that uncommon.)

I'm pretty sure we (and faculty) didn't get bank holidays off at uni. We certainly didn't at school (though that's because it was a boarding school).


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 4:21 AM
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Jo Walton ...on Pohl

His sociological masterpieces of the 70s fit well between the aesthetic elites of the declining New Wave and the New Romanticism and nascent conservatism then rising up. Because of that context and its metaphoric power and pessimism, Man Plus is still one of my personal favorites. It was for me, Pohl? Pohl came back and wrote these?

Like Walton says, his contributions (ed Galaxy, If, and Ballantine in the 60s) cannot be overestimated.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 4:27 AM
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Quoted in Pohl obit at io9, getting Dhalgren sold:

Most editors were not usually invited to the annual sales conference, because there were too many of them, but I told the boss I was going whether they liked it or not. Nobody else would be able to persuade them to deal with Dhalgren. When I got there I said to the salesmen, 'You're going to get a book called Dhalgren. You don't need to read it, don't need to know what it's about. The only thing you need to know is, it's the first book by Samuel R. Delany in many years. He considers it his masterpiece, and there are thousands of people out there who will buy it as soon as they see it. Just get it in the stores, and it will take care of itself.' It did. I think we did 16 printings in the first year, and he kept changing a line or two for every one. When the guy who took over from me as editor saw the sales figures on Dhalgren, he immediately signed three new contracts with [Delany], with commensurate advances... and lost his shirt!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 4:37 AM
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323: Same for Ronald Coase.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 4:57 AM
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Only libertarians ever masturbated to Coase. They've only ever masturbated to the cold void, so nothing has changed.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 5:06 AM
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As I understand it, even Coase didn't masturbate to his theorem a sit was commonly understood.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 5:07 AM
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But he was still a libertarian who was responsible for the "law and economics movement" that has made the legal system even more of a handmaiden to capital.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 5:20 AM
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I have no idea. I know he's certainly no hack in terms of scholarship. Maybe David Frost can ask him some hard questions.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 5:36 AM
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Maybe I should have been more specific. David Frost is also dead.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 5:37 AM
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So I run around the Web and read twenty reviews of Man Plus and not one of them get it.

***spoilers***

But may not matter, since nobody gets it.

At the end when cyborg guy arrives on Mars, he has bulging eyes to see in dim light, huge batwings to absorb sunlight as food, reverse knees, etc.

"Man Plus" is a gargoyle. Or demon.

It can be read either way:a) as an attack on disssociated science, just as the peak of medieval Christianity was the gargoyle at the peak of the Cathedral.

b) as the anti-Nietzschean book, the pointless anti-humanism of creating a civilization to empower and improve the outstanding individual; the meaning of the demonic. Pohl never really left communism.

(Incidentally, MP is possibly a rip of an old Damon Knight story.)

And MP can be usefully read in tandem with Disch's On Wings of Song which is an attack on the social.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 5:43 AM
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Given its title, it is highly appropriate that this thread would take this turn.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 5:43 AM
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Now might be a good time to mention Clerks, since it gets two uses of the title in one go.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 5:47 AM
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"Clerks."


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 5:53 AM
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You're the only the person today who is likely to follow my instructions that well.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 5:57 AM
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But I suppose I still better try to go give some instructions to the people here regardless.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 6:09 AM
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314 is the truth. I am pretty sure that everyone working on these big theory journals used to consider themselves an X-centuryist. It's only a matter of time before I abandon my people.

(Welcome back, PMP!)


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 6:26 AM
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||
Reuters photographer amusingly pwned by burner.
|>


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 6:28 AM
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You all should go see Aint Them Bodies Saints, which the critics also don't seem to understand, and which has to have been directed by Malick.

I am sad to hear about Pohl. The Age Of The Pussyfoot is a good one. I have been just barely into Man Plus for a very long time now and should probably return to it.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 7:44 AM
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It's just annoying how few positions there are in finance where you both work with brilliant people and work collectively toward a positive social end

</humblebrag>

Good to see you again.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 7:59 AM
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I'm pretty sure we (and faculty) didn't get bank holidays off at uni.

The only bank holidays are in Trinity, aren't they? I suppose two Mondays off out of 8 would be a bit much. C gets them as bank holidays, as staff (not faculty). In fact the university central offices are completely shut for several days over Christmas and Easter. Divisonal offices stay open though if people want to work.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 8:17 AM
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A quick Google suggests that on the student/faculty side it's mainly an Oxbridge thing and other UK universities close for teaching on bank holidays.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 8:32 AM
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re: 343

Yeah, I get them as 'academic-related' staff, not faculty.

The Bod completely shuts over Christmas. I used to occasionally come in on Bank Holidays and take the day elsewhere in lieu, but I think they've stopped opening our building on Bank Holidays now.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 8:45 AM
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||

Oh yeah, someone linked this 'Street workout' on Facebook:

re: exercise/board-like-ness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPwGhXdFUkM

>


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 12:18 PM
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344 - lightweights.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 1:52 PM
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PMP!

After the jokes about Terrence Malick's Man of Steel, I want Malick to actually direct a Superman movie.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 2:12 PM
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342: Oof, yeah. Sorry. My common decency filter was apparently off last night.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09- 3-13 2:38 PM
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