Re: What's Killing Poor White Women?

1

So what in this country couldn't be significantly improved if we had free universal health coverage and childcare? Bombing Syria, maybe, but that's the other thread.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 4:11 AM
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Universal childcare would allow mothers of young children to play an equal part in the bombing.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 5:09 AM
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3

Commenter squarelyrooted makes an important point:

I think the central finding it is based on (like the paper it draws from) is mostly due to a cohort effect. From 1990 to 2008 the share of white women over 25 who completed high school went from 79% to around 88%. This means the group under study shrank by nearly half over those two decades. The reason is, essentially, that while the hs grad rate for white women stayed the same over those years, the oldest part of the cohort phased out into the next life - that older part having graduated in a time when hs graduation for women especially was less tethered to socioeconomic status. Basically, the patriarchal oppression of prior generations, which kept relatively higher socioeconmic status white women from completing hs, was fudging the stats, masking the difficult conditions of the bottom 10% from statistical view. Is it possible that things have gotten objectively worse for that bottom 10%? Sure. Do we know that from this data? No. The question we need to ask is "have conditions changed, for better or for worse, for a certain constant subset of the population over time?"


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 5:34 AM
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So its not that poor women have worse health problems, its that "didn't graduate high school" designates an even poorer group of women than it used to? That makes sense.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 5:38 AM
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It does. Next question.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 5:44 AM
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Cohort effects, hooray.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 5:46 AM
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7

Or maybe that's a history effect? I keep forgetting stuff from graduate school.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 5:48 AM
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Yes, when further looking into this I found the point in 3 as a published response to the Health Affairs article in question.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 6:06 AM
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Good thing I read 3. Here I was all set to agree to a plea deal and admit that I was the one killing poor white women, but that "cohort effect" thing would be more than enough to establish reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury.


Posted by: Opinionated but Unrepentant Killer | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 6:25 AM
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I wonder if anyone's looking at the effect of the toxins in our water (because of so many of these women being in the Ozark mountain area). The miscarriages make me think of that especially.

But that wouldn't explain them all being white women. Although black women in Arkansas live mainly in the Delta, so maybe?

But there are Hmong and Asian women up here in the mountains, and Latinos. If it was the water, we'd see effects there too. Also surely it would be effecting the men as well.

Maybe not then.


Posted by: delagar | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 7:19 AM
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Thanks for posting this. I had been thinking about mentioning the article but couldn't think of anything to say other than, "depressing, but worth reading, and the sort of journalism that makes me appreciate the American Prospect."


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 7:52 AM
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10.3: Not necessarily on men vs women (think endocrine disruptors - the miscarriages would make sense), but you're quite right about equal effects across race. It would be interesting (and depressing) to see soil and air quality analysis in lots of places across the US. Unfortunately, the lab results for longterm chemical exposure at low levels are really not indicative in any meaningful way of what happens in humans.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 8:01 AM
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Point already well made in 3-4. You are not comparing apples and apples here, HS dropouts are a totally different group today than a couple of decades ago. Especially post expansion of the GED. You are selecting out a smaller and more disadvantaged portion of the population.

So I don't know what to make of this. Per some quick googling, life expectancy of *all* white women increased by 1.3 years over 2000-2010, twice as fast as it increased in the previous decade. Would like to see life expectancy broken out by income percentiles, e.g. life expectancy for women with below median income. Then at least you're dealing with the same fraction of the population. Increased income inequality might be mirrored in greater inequality of life expectancy. But it's hard to get income longitudinally over the life course -- there are some surveys that could do it though.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 8:07 AM
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This table is interesting. Most striking thing 2000-2010 is big increase in life expectancy for blacks, absolutely and relative to whites. Maybe not depressing enough to make a headline but curious what is driving it or if it's real.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 8:09 AM
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Maybe not depressing enough to make a headline

Depressing enough?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 8:46 AM
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I was thinking, especially, because poorer women don't tend to have water filters on their tap water, which almost all middle class & up here in the Ozarks do.



Posted by: delagar | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 8:58 AM
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Though who knows really how effective those are.


Posted by: delagar | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 8:58 AM
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Poorly managed diabetes would explain the miscarriages as well as the early deaths.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 9:05 AM
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Also, type 2 diabetes can go undetected forever or until you collapse if you're not seeing a doctor regularly, and even then. I know a couple of people who've been told they probably would have been classified as having it for the best part of a decade before they presented. If you're in poor health otherwise, the shit will hit the fan.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 9:15 AM
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If you eat a fruititarian diet, you'll have so much more shit to hit the fan.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 9:16 AM
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Killjoys. I was about to come in here and say "Cohort effect!" but people already beat me to it. It was the first thought I had. I mean, a five year fall is statistically pretty huge, isn't it? It strikes me as something needing a demographic explanation or an overwhelming (and thus presumably identifiable) cultural or medical trend, rather than it being that nebulously and inconclusively that much more difficult to be a poor white woman.


Posted by: Trumwill | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 9:16 AM
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Notwithstanding 3, it seems to me like zeroing in on untreated diabetes and reproductive health problems makes a lot of sense. Anecdatally, my friend's half-sister had a horrifying experience with rural health care for poor women a couple of years ago: She was unwantedly pregnant, addicted to meth, and had serious complications with the pregnancy. But because of the monstrous anti-reproductive freedom laws in her upper midwestern state, she couldn't get an abortion, and so had to carry to term the fetus, which I believe was born alive, but severely messed up, and then fell into a coma. I'm not sure whether she ultimately survived the ordeal or not. Her doctors could have aborted early and saved her health, but they refused to tell her that was an option.

Depressing.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 9:17 AM
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When people in China assume that the poorest American must be better off than an average Chinese person, because we're such a wealthy and developed country, I think about stories like this. But since I don't know how to say, "single wide trailer" in Chinese, I don't elaborate and simply respond that "American poor people are also truly poor, and their lives are very difficult."


Posted by: Britta | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 10:41 AM
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Google translate says: 单宽拖车


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 10:45 AM
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Or maybe try: 宫的黄金工作的人通过劳动荣耀


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 10:49 AM
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Translation Party disappoints on that one.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 11:07 AM
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"Golden Palace who work through labor glory"


Posted by: Britta | Link to this comment | 09- 4-13 11:12 AM
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