Re: VRA Fallout

1

"Ordering a new copy of your birth certificate or marriage verification means travelling in person to the state capital."
At least it's not a very large state. Is there any rationale for requiring this be done in person instead of using the ultramodern technology of a telephone, or, shit, a mail pony?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:30 PM
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SP can shit a mail pony.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:35 PM
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Is there any rationale for requiring this be done in person instead of using the ultramodern technology of a telephone, or, shit, a mail pony?

Fraud prevention.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:39 PM
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1: Maximizing PITA for anyone but white male heterosexual persons of property is a feature, not a bug. At least to the people who've thought this through - I suspect that a significant majority of supporters are absolutely sincere in their concerns about voter fraud.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:39 PM
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I'm on my phone, so I can't check but I thought married (white) women are a key part of the Republican coalition. The article says that there was a record gender gap in the last election, but I thought that was driven by young, single women voting Democratic.

So I would think they would have an incentive to fix this.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:40 PM
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Ok, 5 is reassuring.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:42 PM
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Explain to me why I shouldn't be terrified by this.

Isn't Texas already basically maximally controlled by Republican extremists? Disenfranchising woman probably can't actually make things any worse.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:42 PM
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5: Yes, I'm having a hard time imagining those Dallas ladies in their mink coats beIng given a hard time at polling stations.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:44 PM
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It's all that Wandy Douglas's fault, with her hi-tops and her Kid & Play records in the legislature.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:44 PM
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5: At least according to this national poll last year, yes.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:44 PM
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I wonder about divorced women, though.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:45 PM
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Isn't Texas already basically maximally controlled by Republican extremists? Disenfranchising woman probably can't actually make things any worse.

Have I got some good news about demographic trends for you!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:47 PM
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Neat, I can't vote in Texas without a court order. I've got a passport, a social security card, and a drivers license in my current name, but we were waffling about name changes as we got married, so the marriage certificate shows me as Lizard Breath neé Lizard Breath rather than as Lizard Buck-Breath neé Lizard Breath. I got all my current ID by whining in offices a year later when we'd decided what we were doing rather than getting a court order changing my name.

But as I understand it, all the ID I have doesn't count to Texas, because there's not a single document showing the moment of the name change.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:51 PM
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Although, how would they know? Are they checking everyone's birth certificates for matching their current ID, or would I be able to sneak by with a drivers license?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:52 PM
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Also, you don't reside in Texas.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:52 PM
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Details, details.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:54 PM
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It's a good thing that the law is getting a shakeout in this low stakes election. Republican women turned away at the polls are going to be ready to burn shit down, and I suppose Dem women turned away will be witnesses when DOJ's suit comes to trial.

It would be a good idea to mobilize a voter protection operation in select urban and majority minority districts, to collect facts etc.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:55 PM
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17: What makes you think poll watchers are going to turn away Republican woman? (Or, more generally, UMC women?)


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:56 PM
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18: Right -- I'm figuring that my guess in 14, that if you've got a currently valid driver's license, no one's going to hassle you for a birth certificate, is right. And that'll get UMC married women through just fine, because they'll mostly have driver's licenses or passports.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:58 PM
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Ok, 5 is reassuring.

Don't get me wrong, the story is appalling and should piss people off . . .

would I be able to sneak by with a drivers license?
(Or, more generally, UMC women?)

The article makes it sound like a driver's license would be enough:

The new Texas law requires all voters to provide a photo ID that reflects their current name. If they cannot, voters must provide any of a series of other acceptable forms of identification all of which must match exactly and match the name on their birth certificate.

Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 12:59 PM
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I assume they'd get snagged because they're registered to vote under their married last name, but still using a driver's license from before.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:00 PM
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Actually, I'm not sure if a driver's license would qualify. I don't know if the following applies to everyone or only people without picture ID:

Supporters of these new laws insist that requiring voters to have an ID that matches their birth certificate is a reasonable requirement. ... If any voter is using name different than what appears on their birth certificate, the voter is required to show proof of name change by providing an original or certified copy of their marriage license, divorce decree, or court ordered name change. Photocopies aren't accepted.

Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:02 PM
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That does seem really likely.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:02 PM
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23 to 21.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:02 PM
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The way it's written, it sounds like it applies to everyone. Maybe they ask? You show a license, they ask "Is this the name on your birth certificate" and if the answer is no, then they demand a paper trail for the name change. It's the honor system, but that'd disenfranchise a lot of married women without making men carry their birth certificates around.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:04 PM
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I'm not sure how voting works elsewhere - here the pollworkers have giant printouts of all registered voters, and they find you in the book. So I assume if your driver's license matches the book, you're good to go.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:07 PM
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Drivers license is fine.

http://votetexas.gov/register-to-vote/need-id/


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:08 PM
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Is there anything else where a woman who changed her name by way of marriage has to go through this sort of trouble? Because I remember some guy who wanted to take his wife's name suing some state (or threatening to) because if his wife took his name, there was no paperwork needed beyond the marriage license but he had to spend a bunch of take his wife's name.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:08 PM
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It's nice of the Republicans to validate their recent legal defence that they are targeting Democrats, not African Americans.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:11 PM
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Doing it wrong, the way I did, makes getting a passport a little sketchy along the same lines.

I can't remember exactly what the problem was, but the last time I got my passport renewed, it had been expired for a while, and there was some question as to whether I was going to have to come up with a (in my case non-existent) document establishing the fact of my name change.

I think maybe it wouldn't have been an issue if I'd gotten my expired passport renewed immediately rather than after waiting more than [some time period], because then they would have just taken the name from my last passport? And after some whining, again, and my valid drivers license and social security card and all, they didn't hold me to it. But there was something.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:14 PM
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27: The issue is if your driver's license doesn't match your current name.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:20 PM
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31 -- Oh, sure. I was agreeing with 26. I wonder if your voter registration has your maiden name listed as a middle name you can get away with 'substantially similar' -- probably depends on whether you brought your mink.

From the FAQ:

6. My name on my approved photo ID does not exactly match my name on my voter registration card. Can I still vote?

Election officials will review the ID and if a name is "substantially similar" to the name on their list of registered voters, you will still be able to vote, but you will also have to submit an affidavit stating that you are the same person on the list of registered voters.

7. What does "substantially similar" mean?

A voter's name is considered substantially similar if one or more of the following circumstances applies:

The name on the ID is slightly different from one or more of the name fields on the official list of registered voters.
The name on the voter's ID or on list of registered voters is a customary variation of the voter's formal name. For example, Bill for William, or Beto for Alberto.
The voter's name contains an initial, middle name, or former name that is either not on the official list of registered voters or on the voter's ID.
A first name, middle name, former name or initial of the voter's name occupies a different field on the presented ID document than it does on the list of registered voters.
In considering whether a name is substantially similar, election officials will also look at whether information on the presented ID matches elements of the voter's information on the official list of registered voters such as the voter's residence address or date of birth.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:30 PM
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I wonder if there's a hyphen on my voter reg. card. There is on my birth certificate and driver's license, but not my passport or any of my diplomas or anything else.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:34 PM
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or Beto for Alberto

That's a new one for me.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:34 PM
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In fact, I didn't know my name was hyphenated until I was at the DMV on my 16th birthday. My parents had dropped the hyphen when they discovered that everyone dropped the second half of my name.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:35 PM
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Like, within a few months of my birth, they dropped it. I was not informed!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:35 PM
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I wanted to keep my son's name off the internet, so his legal name starts with ">", except facing the other way.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:40 PM
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My parents had dropped the hyphen

You probably broke it horseback riding.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:41 PM
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13/30: The rules on name-changing are (subject to federalism) such rubbish. We had a similar problem: Lady Dalriata (nee Pictland?) originally intended to take my last name and have her maiden name become her middle name (as her mother had done); the Social Security Administration was fine with that and issued her a card reflecting it. Sometime in the two or three years previous, the state government changed the rules to require a court order for changing any but the last name. She needed a new drivers license and so got one reflecting the state's rules. Meanwhile, her passport still had her maiden name, and so for a bit she lived in a limbo with three pieces of identification in mutual disagreement to her name. She eventually gave in and kept her old middle name. This wouldn't have been too stressful except she had waited a year after the wedding to start making changes and she needed to do some international travel. I can't imagine how well that'd have gone over in Texas.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:42 PM
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38: Just like little Bobby Tables.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:46 PM
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You probably broke it horseback riding.

"I lost it at a swim meet."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:48 PM
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40: That's probably where I got the idea.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:49 PM
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43

Keep in mind, the way you allow an extralegal majority to impose their will is by having a law that criminalizes essentially everyone, then allows enforcement (poll watchers, police, etc.) to selectively target the "wrong" people. So of course good Republican women who come vote with their white southern husbands have IDs that are "substantially similar" to their birth name, but in those high-fraud inner city districts we'll make sure to follow procedure to the letter. They're just enforcing the law, what do you have against that, pinko?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:49 PM
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Speaking of girl names, this is so so great. I'm proud of California for resisting both "Ashley" and "Madison."


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:53 PM
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43: Bingo. As a nice middle-class white lady, I actually didn't have much of any problems changing my name informally, but it did involve both the DMV and the passport agency stretching a point for me. I'll bet that Texas isn't going to be interpreting matters loosely for people who look like they might vote Democratic.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:54 PM
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43 raises a good point, but I don't know if it would work that well in practice. Probably depends on regional demographics. At least here, most of the people who are really dedicated to the idea we need to make sure poor people in cities don't vote have moved their asses to the other side of county line. They can try to go in as vigilante poll watchers or whatever (some guy tried in 2012), but they have no influence over the people who will be at the polls in an official capacity.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:54 PM
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Someone on a neighborhood email list just asked for help in picking a name for their girl due in a week.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:55 PM
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44: Wow. The Jennifer hegemony of the 70's is something else.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:56 PM
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This was a first for me: some guy at the grocery store had a shirt that had a photo of a fetus screen-printed on it, with big block letters "DON'T KILL ME!" The shirt was bright pink. I wanted to kick him in the nuts.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:57 PM
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47: Let me be the first to suggest Jennifer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:57 PM
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49: I assume "Don't kick this guy in the nuts" was also written on the shirt somewhere in the fine print.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:58 PM
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The link in 44 is good, but you can't start in 1960 and claim that you're charting 6 decades.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 1:59 PM
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Isn't even the most popular name even a small percentage of the population? Those charts are misleading me into thinking I should know dozens of Jennifers.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:02 PM
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I know dozens of Jennifers.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:05 PM
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Relatedly, I'm listening to a friend of a friend on FB explain that the Democrats are attacking Ted Cruz because they know he can win the 2016 presidential race.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:05 PM
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Popularity of the name Jennifer for Girls

Highest Percentage: 4.870% in 1974

according to http://www.nameplayground.com/Jennifer


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:06 PM
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I have binders of Lemurs Jennifers.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:07 PM
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Right, at the peak in the 1970s Jennifer was only 1.7% (of girls? of all babies? it's a bit unclear)


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:08 PM
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55: You should chime in agreeing -- "OMG, you found out our secret! We are terrified of Cruz! He's the one Republican that can beat Hillary! Please don't tell anyone I said that!"


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:08 PM
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53: I'm born in 1971, in the Jennifer period.

When my high school friend David enrolled at Wesleyan, the first week of school he got a handwritten note in his student mailbox: something like "Dear David, I saw you around and wanted to get to know you -- there's a party this Friday at 8 at [someplace]. See you there! Jen". When he got there, it turned out everyone had been invited by identical handwritten notes, with the names flipped for the girls; someone had thrown the party as a prank, and there were enough Davids and Jennifers in the freshman class to populate a good-sized party.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:09 PM
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Certainly in my cohort it seemed like every 4th girl or so was a Jen, but 56 is a nice reality check.

In fancypants kindergarten, the most popular girls name by far is "Ella" followed by the nice and I thought mildly, but not excessively, unique name I gave my kid.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:10 PM
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Thanks, peep and Nathan, for Googling that for me. Still seems like a weird way to present data, but then again it does lead to amusing artifacts like the Great Jessica/Ashley War of 85-95.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:10 PM
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The strangest thing is I know exactly why my phone changed "full of" to "of Lemurs".


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:12 PM
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60. con't: I do remember that the invitation was from 'Jen', to get the numbers up by pulling in some variants.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:12 PM
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You should chime in agreeing -- "OMG, you found out our secret! We are terrified of Cruz! He's the one Republican that can beat Hillary! Please don't tell anyone I said that!"

Reclaim the Whitehouse with this 1 weird trick!!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:13 PM
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I actually find the "Ashley" dominance really surprising. I suppose that's in the decade I was least aware of babies.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:13 PM
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I always liked just being called by my last name. I would like to formally change my name to it.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:15 PM
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That infographic is not sound science.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:16 PM
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55 -- After 4 decades of that particular bit of moron logic, it's still surprising. "No, he really is a buffoon, you idiot."


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:19 PM
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Notice that the two sentences are not necessarily related thoughts. I enjoy the idea of being a malicious clown for a good bit longer.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:19 PM
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And when it's over and done, I'll choose something totally new and live quietly with the ghosts of my youth.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:21 PM
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That's what you've been trying to do?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:22 PM
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Live with the ghosts of my youth? Yes and it's been epic.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:24 PM
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I know a metric shitload of Jennifers.

Democrats are attacking Ted Cruz because they know he can win the 2016 presidential race.

God, pleasepleaseplease let the Republicans nominate Ted Cruz in 2016. The Democrats could run Noam Chomsky and still win.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:29 PM
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Interestingly, I would have thought both "Sophia" and "Isabella" peaked several years ago. Also the level of popularity of both "Ava" and "Olivia" was surprising.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:32 PM
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My prediction is that Ted Cruz gets the VP candidacy for 2016 to shore up the right flank for Chris Christie. That's assuming he doesn't go full Palin and implode on himself.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:34 PM
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Better than if Christie implodes on himself. #blackhole #sizeist


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:38 PM
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RedeemReclaim the Whitehouse with this 1 weird trick!!


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:43 PM
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Surely it will be Rubio, no? Which will be a big problem for fish tacos.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:44 PM
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43, 46: Yeah, that wouldn't fly here. First off, the election judges in inner-city districts are almost all Democrats -- there are a tiny number of Republican election judges that get shared out meticulously around the different polling places. Second, if there's a big kerfuffle of any kind, you can bet that election judges from both parties are going to be asked to witness what's going on. And finally, the poll watchers in this state have a very limited range of options for challenging a voter's eligibility. Of course, things are different in the South.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:45 PM
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I haven't been able to bring myself to send Ted Cruz money, but I should probably get over that sort of pre-9/11 thinking. Otherwise, the terrorists won't will win.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:46 PM
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Why do British references to legal change of name always seem to include the phrase "by deed poll"? Why is the exact legal medium important? Or is there some other method I'm unaware of?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 2:53 PM
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By peed doll?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 3:04 PM
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I blame Edward VIII for the (initial) popularity of David. I'm not sure why it had such a long run.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 3:05 PM
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81: Just be sure to put it in a red envelope and he'll get his mother to write you a thank-you note, surely.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 3:05 PM
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Which will be a big problem for fish tacos

Crunchy on the outside, fishy on the inside? Who exactly are we denigrating?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 3:20 PM
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Women, of course.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 3:37 PM
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Re 82

Marriage, adoption, etc. As opposed to an adult legally declaring a name change.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 3:41 PM
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||

I just love large groups of highly-compensated people struggling to figure out how to do good in the face of a complex network of laws and regulations patchworkily trying to treat undocumented immigrants as subhumans.

|>


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 3:54 PM
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88: Good point, but the phrasing seems to persist in contexts where none of those situations are remotely involved. (In California, and I imagine most of the US, all non-marriage-related name changes, including divorcees taking back their old name, requires a court hearing.)


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 3:57 PM
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In the UK changing one's name by deed poll applies to those non-marriage/adoption changes. It's a form and a small fee, iirc.

https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 4:08 PM
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I haven't watched closely, but I'd personally expect this to have a disproportionate impact on Latin@ voters with their wacky double last names that the system is not set up to handle.

I've also said this before, but we're now three for three on moms' names spelled wrong on my daughters' birth certificates, and actually I'm not sure any girl has the spelling her mom intended since in two cases they don't match the intended pronunciation. But we've got first and middle names swapped, first name's first letter wrong, and middle name's first letter wrong, any one of which could make it impossible to get a copy of the birth certificate if you showed up at the office and wanted to do it. Nia was born in a state where anyone can ask for a birth certificate and so I got hers that way, but it meant the black woman behind the counter had to tell nice white middle-class me how to change my written request to match what was on there, and I'm not sure if Lee would have gotten the same response, etc. I have no idea if this stuff happens to wealthier people and they get it fixed or what, but we are also 0 for 4 girls' names entered properly in the foster care computer system before they entered our home.

All this to say I expect significant shenanigans and will be thrilled and shocked if the general public cares.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 4:09 PM
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93

Alternatively, you can have your name changed by Deadpool, but that's significantly more painful.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 4:10 PM
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94

I'd long planned to use Ella, a version of which covers the bulk of my female ancestors for the previous four generations, but I'm glad I didn't get the chance to. My own name is old-fashioned enough that I only met two other peers before age 21 and it was a great conversation-starter when I volunteered at a nursing home, because everyone who didn't have the name remembered what someone with that name had done in 1927 and so on. It feels sort of strange to have it become popular as part of this renaissance of old-fashioned names, but I like it and think it suits me.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 4:18 PM
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Is it okay to go off topic for a moment? I hope so, because I need a ruling. My wife recently applied for a job at the university. She's worked at home for the past seven years. Nevertheless, she's overqualified for this job. She has an MPH and before she left the outside-the-home workplace, she spent six years running fifteen primary-care health clinics that served (and still serve) uninsured children in Denver's least-affluent public schools. The job for which she's applying is an assistant director's position at an institute on campus that runs some cool poverty programs. Her job, for the most part, would consist of administering grants, which she's done in the past (and she's also done a gazillion more complicated things as well -- again, she's very overqualified for this position).

Here's the thing: she just received an interview. Yay! But they've asked her to produce a powerpoint presentation and a brochure about her qualifications and how she'd fit within their organization. And she has to produce these materials for the interview next week. Has anybody ever heard of such a thing? Is this the new normal? Because seriously, they'd be terrifically lucky to have her, if she gets the job they're not going to pay her all the money in the world, and I'm thinking that she should tell them to go fuck themselves. Am I wrong? Again, is this how the game is played now?


Posted by: HaHa Clinton-Dix | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 4:44 PM
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My maternal grandmother, born before 1910, had Thorn's first name.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 4:46 PM
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re: 95

I can't speak for the US, or in that sort of work place, but 7 years is a long time in any line of work. And job applications are all about the hoop-jumping. I don't think anyone really thinks 'we'd be lucky to have this person' these days.

FWIW, I applied for a job recently, and while I didn't get an interview, for the short-listing phase I had to write a supporting statement where I was specifically asked to take the panel through my employment history and explain how I met the various criteria. This was longer than the usual supporting letter, and they explicitly _didn't_ want just a CV and an 'I'm awesome because ...' letter.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 4:54 PM
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96: Thus I suspect she did some shit in 1927, no? The funniest anecdote was probably the prof who had hired me as a cat sitter but was embarrassed the cat shared my name. But all the family cats had to gave old-Jewish-person names because their (cats-only) last name was Ka/tz. I am still grateful I had that job looking after the euphemistic "upstairs cat," which is what gave me the means and opportunity to leave my abusive ex. I got surprisingly emotional about that recently, but it's nice that it's so long ago now.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 4:57 PM
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97: useful information. Thank you. We live in a fallen world when people have to jump through these sorts of hoops to get a reasonably shitty job that will pay very shitty wages. But okay, if this is the way things works, that's very good to know.


Posted by: HaHa Clinton-Dix | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 4:57 PM
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re: 99

I can only speak for here, rather than there [presuming there isn't the UK] but yeah, some level of hoop-jumping seems fairly normal.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:00 PM
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Does administering grants extend to pitching them? If so, the hiring people could be being deliberately cute, saying "this is exactly the kind of thing you'll need to throw together at short notice in this job." Not normal, and more appropriate for a more highly paid job, but not arbitrary either.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:11 PM
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Seems like a reasonable enough filter to see if someone is able to put together high-quality work. There are lots of ways to put together a shitty powerpoint. They want to know that she's smart enough to avoid them.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:23 PM
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101: maybe, though that certainly wasn't in the job description. Nevertheless, your theory might be right. And again, if this doesn't seem nuts to other people, that's very helpful.


Posted by: HaHa Clinton-Dix | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:23 PM
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It sure as shit seems nuts to me. But what do I know.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:28 PM
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The sentiment expressed in 102, on the other hand, seems odd to me. If they want someone with mad powerpointing or brochure-making skillz, fine, but they might have indicated as much in the original ad. If, on the other hand, they're using the ability to create a coherent powerpoint or brochure as a filter for intelligence, they're morons, right? Regardless, I'm persuaded that the request isn't terribly out of line, so that's that.


Posted by: HaHa Clinton-Dix | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:28 PM
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If, otoh, the job is wholly administrative and does not involve pitches, I would think less of the employer for this. A "dance, varmint" thing.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:34 PM
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Coming in way late here, but 44 is excellent. What on earth happened in 2009 with the sudden advent of Isabella, and then the sudden move in 2011 to Sophia? Seemingly without warning?

Also I completely missed the Ava thing -- I've never met an Ava.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:37 PM
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106: yes, exactly. But without knowing one way or the other, she'll have to decide whether it's worth her time to dance for them, in the hopes that dancing will be part of the actual job rather than just the interview.


Posted by: HaHa Clinton-Dix | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:38 PM
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Someone on a neighborhood email list just asked for help in picking a name for their girl due in a week.

My favorite is the person who responded that she should name the kid after her.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:51 PM
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That specific type of hoop-jumping seems odd, and makes me think that doing that sort of thing on short notice is at least potentially part of the job (i.e., something they might include in addition to the advertised duties if they find someone who's good at it).


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:51 PM
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It's super annoying that she has to do homework in order to shine at the interview, but I bet the interview itself will be sufficient information for your wife to determine if they're assholes, oddballs, or had a good reason, and whether she wants to work for them.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 5:54 PM
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Hm. Produce a brochure?? That just seems whack. Meaning bizarre, silly, ridiculous. Unless it's to be part of the job, as noted.

In an ideal world, she'd have an opportunity to say, "A powerpoint presentation and brochure? Oh, I didn't realize that would be involved in the position." (hint, hint, is it involved in the position?)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:03 PM
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111: And the last slide could say, "Because Fuck You" so that if she decides it isn't worth it, she could say she isn't interested in the position and be ready when they ask why.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:05 PM
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On the 2016 presidential front -- is Charley Carp around? There's the news that former Gov. Brian Schweitzer (Montana) may run for the Democratic nomination in 2016. Okay, but doubtful he stands a chance.

BooMan interestingly proposes that Schweitzer could be a good VP choice for Hillary Clinton (if she's the nominee), though. There's something to that. I kind of like it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:11 PM
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I have had to do homework for an interview. I liked it, because it was the same shit I'd be doing for the job, and I didn't have to answer something random on the spur-of-the-moment.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:12 PM
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I'm with everyone who says that "homework" for a job interview can be quite useful for both sides, provided expectations are clearly communicated and the burden is not too onerous. As a hiring manager, I've been burned too many times by someone who looks great on paper but cannot put together a coherent draft of anything, in any format, without major handholding.

Having said that, I'm also familiar with skeezy organizations asking for detailed plans/projections basically as a way to wring free consulting work out of the candidates, which is just wrong.

In this case, the PowerPoint thing seems much more understandable to me than the brochure. Brochures take some level of graphic design skills, but a decent presentation is something that a wide variety of professionals are going to have to do for their jobs. It's harder to imagine how a grants *administrator* would need to do them, though....


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:19 PM
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114 -- It would be entertaining, that's for sure.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:20 PM
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Btw, I'm really, really irritated to find out that Al Jazeera America doesn't stream online. What the heck? What is up with that? I have wanted to watch them for a while now and now I'm finally home and there is finally something I want to see and ... ??!


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:20 PM
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It's a special kind of crazy person who seriously considers what Brian Schweitzer, who refused to run for an open Senate seat in his home state (because he hates Washington so much that he can't bear the thought of leaving Montana to live part-time in the nation's capital), potentially costing his party control of the Senate (though probably not, no thanks to him, after this latest round of GOP madness), can bring to the Democratic ticket as VP. Honestly, I like Schweitzer and think he's a very gifted politician, but he should never be considered for national office again.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:22 PM
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I hate Washington, DC so much that I want to be one heartbeat away from the Oval Office!


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:22 PM
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I think Montana is big enough to contain multitudes of undisclosed locations, if he wanted to be that kind of veep.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:24 PM
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120: living in the naval observatory is pretty much the same as living in space.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:27 PM
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I can't get over it: a brochure? Do grant applications these days involve that level of marketing? Maybe they do. Maybe the idea is that if you can't whittle your sales pitch down to a few bullet points, you can't administer grant applications. But a brochure?

(I worked for 3 years, not very long in the scheme of things, in administration for a community mental health center, doing grant applications/renewals and a lot of number crunching and spreadsheet generation, and while we pitched what our CMHC proposed and promised to provide, it wasn't at the level of something the reviewers could ingest in 5 or 10 minutes. Times have changed?)

On preview, pwned by Witt.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:28 PM
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101, 103: If it is at a university, there is no way that administering grants, especially if your title is assistant director, doesn't mean pitching grants also.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:31 PM
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To the OP. Also shorter the last 5 years of me.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:32 PM
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You know, maybe someone should get more serious about that platinum coin thing, and keep BS a little busier with his day job.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:33 PM
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123: I don't get the brochure or powerpoint for pitching grants either.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:33 PM
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Grants don't last long enough that you can administer them without seeking another one.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:34 PM
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In my lab I think everybody would be sort of baffled by somebody who was thrown off by a request to put some slides together for a meeting. It's pretty common for anyone and everyone to have to do that now and again. Not brochures so much, but then the printer's broken.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:36 PM
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"Pitching" is probably the wrong word. "Submitting" is better. I've not seen much direct person-to-person interaction when seeking grant money.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:37 PM
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I get the powerpoint, but yeah, the brochure is weird.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:38 PM
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105 If, on the other hand, they're using the ability to create a coherent powerpoint or brochure as a filter for intelligence, they're morons, right?

Wait, do they just want a powerpoint file, or are they asking her to give a presentation? Asking someone to give a coherent presentation seems totally reasonable to me, since it's pretty much the standard thing that happens to people interviewing for academic jobs.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:39 PM
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If it's grants and development (ie convincing rich people to part with their money) there are certainly brochures involved. Our group has at least two brochures.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:39 PM
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129: Slides are how we inflict science on people from other universities, but I've not seen that in seeking or administering a grant.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:39 PM
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Although who knows what my boss does when he travels.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:42 PM
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133 is interesting. Maybe I should be making more brochures.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:42 PM
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1. Make brochures.
2. ?????
3. Profit!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:46 PM
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133: Hm. In my world 'grants administrator' is distinct from 'development manager' in that the former is really overseeing contracts and not writing proposals or seeking funding.

However, even relatively shoestring nonprofits (~$300K budget) that I am familiar with don't typically require someone to produce a brochure singlehandedly.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:47 PM
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The only time I can remember ever making a brochure was for one of the "fun" assignments in my tenth grade world history class.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:47 PM
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(Just counted. We have four brochures, all of which were assembled with a team of four people and an outside graphic designer/printer, during a time when our organization had a $500K annual budget.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:48 PM
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Actually, it was about $600K by then, I think.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:48 PM
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137: sounds about as promising as any of the other funding options we've been exploring! I'm in!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:49 PM
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First you get the brochures, then you get the grants, then you get the women. Then you have to help make sure the women can still vote in Texas.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:51 PM
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I would be puzzled by a request for a brochure, in terms of layout. My first and only actual guess would be that they meant an 8½"x11" sheet folded in three to make six tall skinny 'pages', with one as a cover, the back mostly blank, and text on the other four. But I wouldn't be confident about that at all.

I don't really run into brochures professionally -- I see them in doctors' offices and in racks in motels advertising local attractions.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:52 PM
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I like to circle around a wave at the topic from time to time.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:52 PM
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She should bring Tufte along to explain to the hiring committee why PowerPoint sucks. She won't get the job, but she'll have the satisfaction of being right.

||It's still early, Halford. They could pull this one out. |>


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:53 PM
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in racks in motels advertising local attractions

"Look! Boobs! All around me!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:54 PM
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Someone should probably check in on Halford.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:55 PM
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146.2: all the stuff about what a terrible manager Mattingly is has made me feel pretty bad for Halford. No team needs that.

*sob* Grady Little *sob*


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:55 PM
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Technically you can do various things by a deed poll but in practice name changes are the only current use. A deed poll is a deed with just one party instead of two or more: thus the top of the parchment was polled (shaved) instead of indented like an indenture (duplicate deeds prepared top to top mirror image style and cut apart in an indented manner as a primitive anti forgery device).


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 6:58 PM
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She should show up with a presentation in some alternate program like Keynote or Prezi just to be contrary.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:02 PM
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150: Interesting.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:04 PM
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I seriously can't stand this. Fuck the Cardinals. If we lose tonight as we probably will I'm abandoning all principle and rooting for the AL team regardless. Roberto Tigre or Rob the Masshole personas, I summon thee.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:07 PM
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144: My first and only actual guess would be that they meant an 8½"x11" sheet folded in three to make six tall skinny 'pages', with one as a cover, the back mostly blank, and text on the other four.

Heh. Yeah. Like ... why??

As I said upthread, ideally Lady HaHa, of the Clinton-Dix clan, would be able to ask for clarification, making it clear that she would like to meet expectations.

Maybe SP or Witt can show us an example of the sort of brochure that's meant. I would have thought it would be for outreach to the public, the kind of thing you might leave stacks of at a clinic or something.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:14 PM
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Is there a baseball game on?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:14 PM
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If it ends up being Cardinals-Red Sox, I'm just going to puke.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:15 PM
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I confess I resist the notion that a presentation must naturally include PowerPoint.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:17 PM
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I think ours is roughly what's described in 144, on a glossy 8.5x11. I don't know if it's online, and all our servers are down until Monday, they're moving our data center (~17 petabytes) to Somerville. If they do the physical move in about 24 hours (rest of the time for reinstalling/rebooting) that's comparable bandwidth to high-end fiber.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:18 PM
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Life is despair.


Posted by: Rob the Masshole | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:22 PM
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high-end fiber

Seems like a product where the generic ought to do the job well enough.


Posted by: Kreskin | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:23 PM
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Rob the Masshole

The dude from Survivor?!? Love it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:29 PM
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The deck and a presentation makes sense. The brochure doesn't really (and if it is a design job they'll want a portfolio). Also it is so risky. Individual tastes can vary so much and she may produce what many would think is fine, but the person/s there don't like the style.

I have seen this at work. One person had stuff designed to fit his tastes. The next person comes in and starts ranting about how "unprofessional", "tacky", and "horrid" these things are--and explicitly says that these are objective standards he's applying. No, this person isn't a professional designer. But his opinions are fact.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:42 PM
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Don't you hate to see that evening sun go down?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:53 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWmVeNSGTas


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 7:55 PM
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162: The deck and a presentation makes sense.

I take it a deck is a PowerPoint presentation. It really doesn't make sense in any number of, indeed numerous, professional settings. But it's to be taken that in the setting at hand, it does, since it's requested, along with a brochure, which is to be taken as sense-making as well.

I'd think that individual tastes would vary with respect to PowerPoint presentations as well, but I don't know much of them.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 8:10 PM
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It really doesn't make sense in any number of, indeed numerous, professional settings.

That's true. I am making the mistake of generalizing too widely from my experience. Also, I am not a professional. So, I really can't say what professionals do.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 8:32 PM
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I appreciate everybody's feedback. Given what you've all said, the whole thing, including the brochure, makes quite a bit more sense. Thanks.


Posted by: HaHa Clinton-Dix | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 8:38 PM
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I just read the BooMan post linked in 114, and it's even stupider than I could ever have imagined. Brian Schweitzer, he of the NRA "A" rating (I'm making this up, but I bet it's true.) and well-paid shill for mining interests, is a man of the left! The guy who might still cost his party control of the Senate is the great savior of the Democratic Party!

I'm not sure why I'm letting this annoy me so much. I bet he gives good powerpoint and makes a mean brochure.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 8:46 PM
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"A lot of people who feel culturally estranged from Obama and Biden will not feel the same way about Schweitzer."

Because Brian Scheitzer is totally a 100%, grade-A white American! Fuck you, you pandering-to-racists-and-anti-Catholics shithead.

I really do think I'm done now.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 8:50 PM
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I barely skimmed it, but it's hard to understand being so upset over a squib like that -- maybe if I read it more closely I'd feel differently. And I suppose I could say the same about The Year Of Magical Thinking, which comes to mind as something I could barely push myself to get through. But I suppose I'm glad I did.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 9:02 PM
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False outrage is my cheap thrill, text. But it is a stupid post.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 9:03 PM
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"His writing is comparable to that of Joan Didion."


Posted by: Opinionated Cover Blurb | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 9:14 PM
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My cheap thrill is genuinely getting upset when I have no legitimate cause to be upset. I suppose it can only be justified if it gives you pleasure.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 9:18 PM
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'N sew Viet rush Shah, a bisque gays inn two Yoo.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-18-13 11:43 PM
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Brrrr it is cold at 2:26 in the morning


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 12:26 AM
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How cold is it?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 12:30 AM
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re: 158

It seems quite a bit faster than easily available high-end fibre, I'd have thought? ~1 petabyte/hour? Getting on for 300Gbps.

We've been looking at mirroring our data [not on the same petabyte scale, but it'll be approaching it in the next 18 months] in a different city, and a truck-full-of-disks is definitely looking like the quickest option.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 1:24 AM
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I confess I resist the notion that a presentation must naturally include PowerPoint.

Very true. She should bring a team of accomplished mimes to the interview, to act out the points she makes while she declaims in rhyming couplets.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 3:57 AM
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I had a project update meeting on Friday and I sang a duet with another guy for one of our updates.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 5:28 AM
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Excellent!


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 5:30 AM
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I think actual sample-tasks are underrated in the hiring process - if they're well thought-out they make a lot more sense than prompting someone to jabber about her experiences and qualities. I had an Excel test for my job, and it was a big help in the process, despite being a very uncommon step in my field (I am not employed outside my field),


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 6:24 AM
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175: It was 60 in the house this morning. Still haven't turned on the heat this fall.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 6:28 AM
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182: Same here,, but it was about 64 in the house. I will say that the whole new siding, insulation and windows has had a noticeably positive effect on the indoor climate of the house. Also far fewer stink bugs inside.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 6:54 AM
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We haven't had one of those yet. Just spiders and millipedes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 7:05 AM
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184: On warm days there are hordes on our south-facing wall.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 7:12 AM
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Probably in the 40s inside earlier -- I have the coldest room, and we haven't turned the heat on or fully closed all the windows.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 7:36 AM
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Since this is the closest thing to a politics thread a few tidbits:

1) Here is a great simple story in which a Salon reporter follows up with 3 couples who appeared on Hannity to explain how Obamacare was hurting them. Turned out to all be lies and/or ignorance. Chuck Todd should take notes.

2) One reason why unions matter. CNBC gets schooled by AFL-CIO spokesman on "entitlements. (At least he gets on CNBC to their semi-credit.)

Reporter: Are you as clear on the reality that if you have don't cut entitlement benefits this country may well go bankrupt?
Damon Silvers: That's frankly not true. That's a lie put forward by billionaires who don't want to pay higher taxes. social security is the best funded aspect of our retirement system today
Reporter 2: I'm talking about the people that understand the figures.
Damon Silvers: You're talking about -- you're talking about people who themselves are more afraid of paying higher taxes than they are of being poor in retirement. You're talking about essentially rich people. If you want to have a democracy of rich people, I suppose your statement is true.
3) Ken Starr writes letter in defense of pedophile teacher at Potomac School (his wife was a trustee there).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 8:25 AM
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That guy claiming to James Fallows he was going to close down his business if Obama won reelection has had his emails over the past year shared. He refused to share further details, but implies he cut staff without closing down. He also kept getting mad at Fallows for not responding to his meandering emails within a few hours.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-19-13 9:25 AM
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Seeing as this is the wingnut thread, take a look at a bunch of Polish ones at an event in the big 'anti gender' campaign currently being promoted by the Church and the Right. The banner reads "Gender is destroying Poland! Gender is destroying the family! Gender-STOP!!!"


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-20-13 3:43 PM
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Lets try that again anti-gender banner


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-20-13 3:44 PM
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So is "gender" being metonym for feminism, talk of sexism and sexual diversity, etc.?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 10-20-13 9:09 PM
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Tidbit: Marianne Williamson, author of the most famous thing Nelson Mandela never said, is running for Henry Waxman's congressional seat.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-20-13 9:59 PM
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Ru fucking kidding me.


Posted by: Rob the Masshole | Link to this comment | 10-20-13 10:11 PM
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On politics:

This is a fantastic article and a nice antidote to the almost hysterical regionalism and anti-Southernism that is so much a part of the US political liberal's worldview, at least since that red/blue map in 2000. Definitely made me think.


Posted by: Rob the Masshole | Link to this comment | 10-20-13 10:59 PM
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Shouldn't Rob the Masshole be all about hysterical regionalism and anti-Southernism?


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 10-20-13 11:28 PM
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Hysterical regionalism and anti-Southernism is one of the best political development of the last 20 years. Nothing promotes political unity quite like a foreign enemy. This has worked to the advantage of conservativism for a long time, but now it will work to the advantage of liberalism.

I think I hate Jacobin. I used to think I liked it, but every time I read an article there, I find myself all pissed off. It's like the Slate of the Left. I'm sympathetic to Ackermann's message -- that we live in a liberal country that has institutions that give conservatives disproportionate power -- but something about Jacobin house style makes me want to disagree.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-20-13 11:38 PM
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Don't like Jacobin? New Left Project is also linked at CT. NLP runs pieces usually too short for my tastes and is more an aggregator, and a bit British. Corey Robin gets cross-posted there, and Louis Proyect. NLP is currently running a "Patriarchy 2013" series

The Girlfriend Gaze ...close to "Tiqqun Young Girl" but focusing on the commodification of embodiment in a female sociality, without the depth (or the confrontational tome) of Tiqqun. IOW, young girls market their body-image, but also sell themselves, their friendliness, kindness, generosity, empathy. All these are becoming just as commodified.

From the "Girlfriend Gaze":

In what is a relentlessly visual landscape, the feminine ideal is the girl, and the girled body is an asset. Freed from the marriage market, it is invested in as an essential part of self branding. But the labour undertaken to achieve this body is glossed as 'me-time', and portrayed as a strategic means of achieving self-coherence, empowerment and autonomy. A body image that matches the adolescent norm is a signifier of success.

Women's sociality - or girlfriendship - is harnessed as a way of naturalising such a body

What Tiqqun deals with is what it means, or how it feels to have "self-coherence, empowerment, and autonomy" as objectified and commodified as your vital statistics, which are now hip-size and twitter followers. See:Miley Cyrus, liberation as marketing.

How Feminism Became Capitalism's Handmaiden ...old lefty Nancy Fraser. Do we like her? I have been looking at her books.

But I have some old Zillah Eisenstein to read first.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10-21-13 5:29 AM
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the feminine ideal is the girl, and the girled body is an asset. Freed from the marriage market

It is an un-gendered ideal now, and it is no longer (only) about the body.

Yeah, the thing about Japan, and many are "freed" from the marriage market, or dating or match-up markets, even if we are married or paired off. We are all becoming maidens.

The maiden is the unattached, uncommitted, unselfish (she consumes for others) one who serves, suffers, and sacrifices. Mr Chips was a maiden.

The maiden has the solipsistic narcissism of the martyred saint. I die for you.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10-21-13 5:41 AM
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I am reminded of the scene in Brave New World where the young woman is told by her girlfriend to fuck more often and more partners a) for her mental health, and b) for social stability.

Neo-liberalism will be neo-feudalism under cover of "self-coherence, empowerment, and autonomy"

We will choose to be serfs, and call it freedom.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10-21-13 5:51 AM
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Somebody get bob a soma and a flight to the Falklands.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-21-13 6:14 AM
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So is "gender" being metonym for feminism, talk of sexism and sexual diversity, etc.?

Yes, but also more specifically it is about gender essentialism. The campaigners are outraged by the notion that traditional gender roles and sexual norms are in any way socially constructed, rather than being a timeless expression of universal biological and divine natural law.

It has also gotten caught up in a recent resurgence of the Church pedophile scandals. Leading clerics, particularly the arch-conservative head of the Polish bishops conference have repeatedly talked about how feminism, 'gender', and 'liberalism' are the cause of pedophilia in society because they break down morality and family ties, thus leading children to turn to proper traditional morality figures like priests and causing the weaker priests to fall into sinful conduct.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 10-21-13 7:31 AM
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201.2: That argument sounds like an own goal. If they're arguing that society being in a crisis leads to increased interest in and interaction with the church leading to horrible incidents because the Church can't police its own, isn't that basically admitting that the Church can't fulfill its role as the guardian of proper traditional morality?


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 10-21-13 8:07 AM
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For the record, I don't pay much attention to guys, partly because the default or hegemonic is kinda invisible, and because not sure why but I prefer to talk about the roles as default gendered female.

So the warrior or soldier is a variant of maiden:serves, obeys, conforms, supports default sociality. The Artemis variant of maiden is also available to men:asocial, but generally benevolent. Cowgirls.

The only particularly male role that comes to mind is the asshole:anti-social rather than asocial, deliberately and consciously destructive of social norms and institutions for the sake of destruction. Not a whore, which is pretty much a socially approved role. A rebel, a revolutionary.

And not a role readily available to women, is it?

"Tanya" largely made coffee:a maiden. Feminist rebels want to build a better society, serve others, not just burn it all down to watch the pretty flames.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10-22-13 5:09 AM
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Inspired by some LGM nutbagging about MRA jerks:

1) Whether it is an interest in anime (pretty colors and easy sentiment...not really, but it will please you) or by preference in movies my entertainment experience is currently dominated by representations of girls and women.

2) Sticking to anime, I alternate rom-coms, gentle slice-of-life (Aria series) and action dramas (Simoun). The creators are for the sake of argument 1/3 sexist men, 1/3 "feminist" men, 1/3 women.

3) Simoun, as an typical example, had like 15 action girls or warrior women. For the sake of dramaturgy, these have to have variety and difference, they cannot be a single unitary trope, stereotype, or male fantasy.

4) But, because it is drama or melodrama, characters have to suffer and/or die. (Rom-com and Comedy actually also have to use conflict and challenge)

What got me going was bspencer pointing to a MRA guy saying he was attracted to insecure women.

Which got me thinking about moe, which is many things, but in part supposedly the eroticization (not necessarily sexualization) of protective impulses and feelings.

So, you know, what am I feeling or want to feel, as the ninja girl lays dying on the mountain of samurai she dismembered and disemboweled? (Or a news item from Missouri?) Is it significantly different from what I feel, or would feel, if it were a guy?

Should I feel "protective" toward the suffering?

"Pity is the feeling which arrests the mind in the presence of whatsoever is grave and constant in human suffering and unites it with the human sufferer. Terror is the feeling that arrests the mind in the presence of whatsoever is grave and constant in human suffering and unites it with the secret cause."

...Stephen Dedalus

"Sorrow laughs. Joy weeps." ...Blake


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 10-23-13 5:03 AM
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