Re: A More Depressing Game

1

I crashed into some kid's Honda in the Whole Foods parking lot.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 11:50 AM
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At least I got to yell at the man who stood at my window to tell me to move my car as I was getting ready to leave after having given my info. Officious ass. After I screamed I was just finishing exchanging insurance information, he goes and looks over my car for damage, like I'm supposed to explain myself to him to his satisfaction because he remembered his reusable grocery bags. So I yelled at him more and leftt. Fucker. And I couldn't really get into it with him because if you tell somebody to shove their nuts in the coffee grinder in front of a second-grade child, you're the asshole. Or so I'm told.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:02 PM
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"When he was old Charlemagne tried unsuccessfully to learn to write: and someone may be similarly unsuccessful in trying to learn a new line of thinking. He never becomes fluent in it."; thus Wittgenstein in one of the remarks collected in Culture & Value. I somehow remembered this as a much more general, and severe, thought to the effect that thinking is a skill like anything else, one which must be exercised often to be capable of being exercised well, one which can atrophy, and one which, if not inculcated early enough, one may never be able to acquire. Sometimes I have had the thought—the first such occasion prior to my having read C&V, but recast in the misremembered terms after my having done so—that being with others is similarly a skill which one can learn or not learn, strengthen or let wither away, and that while many others had picked up the knack and that I too once could have, my long habits of solitude had so unaccustomed me to company and companionship that the time had long since passed when I could have acquired and developed it; that avenue is now closed, and happiness with another is no longer a possibility for me.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:05 PM
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3: Deadly combination of eloquent and sad. For what it's worth, I don't think this - that avenue is now closed, and happiness with another is no longer a possibility for me - is true, but oh how easy is it to feel that way.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:11 PM
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Lord, it is time. The summer was too long.
Lay your shadow on the sundials now,
and through the meadow let the winds throng.

Ask the last fruits to ripen on the vine;
give them further two more summer days
to bring about perfection and to raise
the final sweetness in the heavy wine.

Whoever has no house now will establish none,
whoever lives alone now will live on long alone,
will waken, read, and write long letters,
wander up and down the barren paths
the parks expose when the leaves are blown.


Posted by: Rainer Maria Rilke | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:11 PM
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4: thank you, I thought it was nicely written if raaaather maudlin myself!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:12 PM
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It's sometimes hard to tell with the Nosflowster, but I'm going to assume 3 is meant earnestly and call bullshit on it. You just need to find a similarly suited weirdo, of which there are at least dozens. Literally every person going through a tough break up thinks they have some fundamental flaw that rooms them permanently to a life of solitude.

For the Hammer, isn't there a gangster-rap parody song somewhere about the Whole Foods parking lot? I've had a few heated encounters there myself.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:12 PM
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I meant to say either "dooms" or "Roombas" them to a life of solitude.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:13 PM
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At least dozens! God damn!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:14 PM
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I've been unable to walk independently or keep anything down for most of a week and I spent Tuesday in the ER for some additional weirdness. Everything hurts and I'm exhausted and when I saw my doctor this morning she made me wait for an hour and a half and then started talking about peripheral neuropathy and mitochondria, again.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:16 PM
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I do not keep up in realtime with the comments here, but catch up sometimes on weekends. Were I to bump old threads with p0wn'd thoughts !


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:18 PM
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2 is great, and the I think the music video Halford's thinking of is this.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:23 PM
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My limp appears to be getting worse not better (but I don't really care), and I probably need to think seriously about changing jobs (which is something I thought I'd never do, and which thought fills me with sorrow and dread).


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:24 PM
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That said, I'm terribly fortunate in my life circumstances -- including in that I have have a job that's better than I deserve -- and I try never to forget that.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:25 PM
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Comment 3 is quite eloquent, but fortunately its morbid conclusion is false. I will restrict myself to challenging one of its premises

being with others is similarly a skill which one can learn or not learn

Not quite. Really being with each other person you encounter is a slightly different skill. Thus everyone is constantly re-learning the skill set all the time. If you find yourself out of practice dealing with the people around you, your situation is really not much more gloomy than that of anyone else. Other people adapt, and so can you.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:26 PM
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My depression is currently a motherfucker, and my shrink feels like she's out of meds to try.


Posted by: Abraham Lincoln | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:49 PM
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Just now, I did not write the comment on a student essay:

"Not only did your essay make me want to kill myself, it is actually a digest of thousands of remarks that have left me suicidal over the last forty five years."

I didn't write that. Maybe I should put this in the happy thread.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 12:52 PM
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You just need to find a similarly suited weirdo, of which there are at least dozens.

WE CAN HELP YOU FIND THEM.


Posted by: Opinionated NSA | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:05 PM
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10,13: Get well soon.


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:11 PM
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16: Find new meds.


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:13 PM
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What 19 said.

Also, gswift has the song my wife is refraining from singing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:15 PM
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And there aren't always new meds. My sympathies to Abe. The head in the giant magnet cure, is that still a thing?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:19 PM
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I should never have taken a freelance job writing someone's master's thesis, and I get what I deserve.


Posted by: President Dweeb-Ass Moron | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:24 PM
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I'm looking at walkers on Amazon. Anyone have any recommendations, let me know.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:27 PM
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I'm not particularly happy about having paid for the coffee that a senior executive drank while he was transparently obviously trying to bully me into apologizing to him for provoking his irrational outburst in the first place, but at least I caught myself before my expression made it too clear that I was looking at vulnerable points on his head and neck while cracking my knuckles. So long, non-paying but CV-gap-filling "job."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:30 PM
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Every goddamn time I think of another movie I want to watch, it's not available from Netflix streaming.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:35 PM
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My parents are selling my childhood home. Fuck that!


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:41 PM
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My children are still dead.

It is coming up on a year for the second loss and I gave a lot to NARAL for my older son's birthday, but I can't give as much for my younger son's birthday in a few weeks and that makes me really sad.


Posted by: Anon for this one | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:43 PM
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This is a super-minor complaint, but I'm feeling overwhelmed with work and really would just like to take a week or two off, although I'm already behind.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:48 PM
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Sympathies to all the people with real problems.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:50 PM
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29: me too. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen, so I'm doing what I know is the best and only thing to do: working at a pace that's sustainable and steadily crossing things off my to-do list. That the big tasks are looming near the top of the list, sneering at my weak efforts, isn't lost on me. But at least this way I'm getting some stuff done, which means that I don't feel too terrible about myself.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:53 PM
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I'm writing my own Master's thesis and it's not going very well at all. But at least lately it's going and there's something to be said about that. This is the third and last iteration of this project, the first two ideas had a lot of work put into them but completely fell apart. It's due at the latest by the end of the year. Clearly I should have employed the services of my predecessor, President Dweeb-Ass Moron. By the way, Mr. President, how much do you charge?


Posted by: President Under the Gun | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 1:54 PM
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Yesterday I was so depressed I watched a self-termed documentary about Gilligan's Island, complete with reënactments of dramatic moments in the making of the show, and cried more than once.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:15 PM
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16: If it gets to be horrendous, there is always ECT. There is trams cranial magnetic stimulation, but I don't really know how well it works.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:24 PM
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16: I was somewhere in that vicinity for most of this year. Email me (if the address appears, which it doesn't on preview -- or search site for my pseud + "email") if you want to talk about it more directly. I will say that the drug I'm currently on took close to 6 months to work, and I only stuck with it because I'm stubborn and terrified of frequent switching. (This was also my experience with the SSRI I used to take -- six to seven months' lag.)

If 3 isn't true, believing it is completely self-defeating. How would you know if it's true? How do you benefit by self-defeat, other than the obvious (no gain, no pain)?

28: what's the shortfall on the donation? I will totally chip in in your honor. I bet others will too.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:29 PM
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My boss hates me, and I am really bad at my current job. I wrote my notes the way I always did but was told that they were too negative. An example of a horrendous one was, "X struggles with his interpersonal skills, but he has made real strides in the past month". Example included.

I wonder if I should quit for my sanity. What looks worse when looking for a job: quitting or getting let go?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:29 PM
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I have had a colon infection since July. On round 3.5 of $1500 a round antibiotics (Thanks BCBS!), hoping this round does it. Fucking tired of this shit.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:33 PM
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16: Sometimes meds that don't work the first time work when you try them again later. I know this was true for me. The first time I tried Prozac, it was the first anti-depressant I ever took. I had all kinds of weird reactions, perhaps because my body had never encountered this chemical before, and perhaps just from the knowledge that I had finally reached the point where I needed to be medicated. In any case, after trying many other combinations of drugs, I went back to prozac, and have been on it for over a decade.

Now when I say student essays make me want to kill myself, it is an attempt at grim humor, and not a real risk. So there's that.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:33 PM
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Further to 36: I have always written notes like this, and they were always considered fine.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:36 PM
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28, 35.last: Donation made.


Posted by: Mr. Blandings | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:37 PM
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41

29 (and 30) are me too.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:42 PM
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33 -- weirdly, I'm pretty sure I saw tha same documentary, or at least another Gilligan's Island themed documentary, while depressed. It's amazing that Gilligan's Island has now been something watched by sick and/or depressed Americans for almost 50 years.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:43 PM
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43

Good luck to everyone. Personally, I just have my constant, basically obiectively accurate, feeling of failure and wasted potential, but I'm used to it by now, and there are sure a lot of good things around as well.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:47 PM
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Also I'll chip in towards NARAL as soon as I'm on a computer.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:50 PM
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32: The entire job will probably run just shy of $15k counting subcontractors. That's what I asked for upfront, the client said $12k, and instead of hashing it out we just agreed on time and materials, which will work out all right for me in the end but will have come with lots of unnecessary aggravation. (It's for a mid-career professional who is running a business and raising a family at the same time as "earning" a degree.) I have no grad school experience, no familiarity with APA style, and no professional experience in the field or with the theorists. The client sent me three different deadlines, disappeared for five weeks, and didn't clarify that a mid-project deadline was a 20-30p draft instead of an outline until the week before it was due. Good times. I'm sure the client has as much regret about giving me the job as I do about taking it, so at least there's that.


Posted by: President Dweeb-Ass Moron | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:54 PM
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It's time you knew the cold, soft facts of me. Ever since Principal Fontana found me and commenced to bless my mail slot, monthly, with the Eastern Valley High School Alumni Newsletter, I've been meaning to write my update. Sad to say, vanity slowed my hand. Let a fever for the truth speed it now. Let me stand on the rooftop of my reckoning and shout naught but the indisputable: I did not pan out.


Posted by: Opinionated Lewis Miner | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:57 PM
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45: Are you doing very heavy editing or writing the whole thing from scratch?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 2:57 PM
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46: I. love. that. book.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 3:02 PM
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33: I have also seen that documentary. I don't remember being depressed at the time, but the fact that I watched it is probably sign enough.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 3:15 PM
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42: Funny you watched it, too. I guess despite my avid disinterest in childhood, there's some stuff I find comforting/sentimental if I'm really in a bad way.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 3:17 PM
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I'm worried I have type 2 diabetes. I'm waiting on test results from my doctor. Good luck to everyone battling depression; I know from witnessing it I my family that it is a bitch.


Posted by: MirandaWell | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 3:54 PM
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I suppose I shouldn't complain here, given that I do so much anyway. I'm behind on house projects, totally adrift career-wise and feeling less healthy than usual, but it could always be worse. Had a beer with my friend after hanging out with her kid yesterday evening, and that always puts my worries in perspective. MLP-themed birthday tomorrow for said kid, so that should be fun. Never thought I'd be a brony.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 3:58 PM
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On the subway the other day I was texting that morning's photo of Zardoz to all the grandparents and my sister and one great aunt, as I do every day, and out of nowhere came the thought "I should email this to my mom since she doesn't have a smart phone."


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 4:12 PM
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On the subway the other day I was texting that morning's photo of Zardoz to all the grandparents and my sister and one great aunt, as I do every day, and out of nowhere came the thought "I should email this to my mom since she doesn't have a smart phone."


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 4:12 PM
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Thank you. Your kindness feels good.


Posted by: Anon for this one | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 4:26 PM
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36: What looks worse when looking for a job: quitting or getting let go?

Better than either, if you can manage it: finding a new job while still employed with the old one, which (1) avoids any risk of a resume gap and (2) gives you a natural reason to request that they not contact your current boss when doing a reference check, if you think he might give you a bad/mediocre one.

Between your first two choices, getting let go generally allows you to apply for unemployment benefits, which can help bridge the gap financially while looking for a new job. Not sure which looks better/worse to a future employer - I've been pretty open about getting laid off when looking for new jobs, but I know some employment consultants who discourage that.


Posted by: Dave W. | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 4:42 PM
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mysql stopped running. Weird, huh?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 10:27 PM
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neb wins the thread.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 10:29 PM
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59

It's sometimes hard to tell with the Halfordster, but I'm going to assume 43 is meant earnestly and call bullshit on it.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 10:32 PM
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It all depends what obiectively means.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 10:33 PM
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Ogged returns and the software quits in protest?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 10:58 PM
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My blog suddenly has an influx of visits from Guernsey, which Wordpress deems to be a country. Am I being framed in some sort of insider-trading scheme? Time will tell.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 11:05 PM
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Nothing much going wrong in my life lately, but I can't leave well enough alone: I have to keep replaying the old tapes (from last December, and then from last March).

My dad's wake was on last St. Patrick's Day, that I do remember, but I keep having to double-check the actual date of his death (was it the 13th or the 14th of March? I need to look it up; and I now totally get how people can get really vague and wrong about the dates...).

My dad was in an assisted living facility above a pub (yes, really; or: probably in one of my drunken stupors...), and my mother lay dying in his bed, which, crazily enough, just seemed sort of normal to us ... and the hospice nurse came down to the pub to fetch us upstairs, because 'it was time' (no judgement: you've ordered a pint in the pub above your father's assisted living facility, and your mother is about to die, no worries: it's just that you should go up now, you know? because your mum's breathing? it has slowed, and her skin? it looks a little bit mottled). And I had never ever seen/heard anyone die before, but I heard my mother's death rattle, and I knew. We were singing to her when she died ("Be Not Afraid," after "Carrickfergus"). My mother was once so alive and so damn funny: I still can't quite believe she is dead, I can't believe I watched her die.

About an hour later, when the physician came to declare death and to fill out the paperwork, I was weirdly insistent: Look, I know she's dead, I just watched (and heard) her die, but I want some official proof, okay? I want to know what signs and symptoms allow you to declare my mother dead before I, as her eldest daughter, sign this goddamn paper for posterity, and for officialdom.

But: about 10-20 minutes after my mother died (we didn't really need the physician: we knew that she was dead, she watched her die), we drank a toast to her, as per family tradition, with a little bit of whiskey. And I gave my 11-year old boy a wee drop, because holy crap! he just watched his grandmother die, and it's three days before Christmas. Probably I am a bad mother for giving my child a wee dram when his grandmother died, but honestly, on this score, I am not troubled, my conscience bothers me not at all. I just can't quite believe that it was my own dear little mother who died.

And I can't stop replaying the tapes, you know?


Posted by: Zoé Lafontaine, épouse de Wilfrid Laurier | Link to this comment | 11-16-13 11:27 PM
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neb wins the thread.

It would have been a more impressive victory if he hadn't fixed it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 12:30 AM
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My life could be a lot worse. I don't have much to complain about. Tonight I talked to someone with the power to do something about some of the structural things that make my life difficult, and she is going to put some things into action. But my day-to-day problems are of the sort like "people I love don't love me and people who love me are wrong for me" sort. Count that doubly so for my professional life. It's human-condition-type stuff, not anything special. My broken foot is not in much pain anymore.


Posted by: AWB | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 12:44 AM
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All good thoughts to Zoé and the rest of you wretched lot. At the moment I'm nearing the completion of my slow-motion divorce and the ultimate erosion of my career, such as it is, and well, life's rich pageant. On the bright side, I taught the girls chess this morning, and they spend nearly the whole day at it, not only playing some entirely respectable games but also nearly coming to blows over them, so life is grand.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 12:44 AM
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And I can't stop replaying the tapes, you know?

I hear ya. My experience of my dad's death was similar in some ways, and it's a rough thing to go through. Hang in there.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 12:56 AM
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All my recent interactions with my daughter have been horrible.


Posted by: King Lear | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 2:36 AM
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Probably I am a bad mother for giving my child a wee dram when his grandmother died, but honestly, on this score, I am not troubled, my conscience bothers me not at all.

Nor should your conscience bother you on this score.

I saw neither of my parents on their deathbeds. In both cases I was on a train to where they lived and they were gone by the time I got there. To this day I have no idea whether this was bad luck, bad judgment on my part, or bad priorities.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 3:59 AM
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Presently depressing stuff: 'm about to be diagnosed with this thing (the consultant has told me what he thinks it is, we are now going through the formalities of testing). Who knows what the underlying causes may be? So I may never be able to walk more than 500 meters again. Fuck.

The section of that article on treatment says it sometimes responds to smoking grass. But I find I really don't want to spend the rest of my life getting stoned.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 4:10 AM
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Haven't read thread yet, hydro's been cut off, am in basement worried about money and flooding. Pretty sure there's much worse going on though so preparing for some sad reading. God, I'm already depressed. Good game, Unfogged.


Posted by: Kim Campbell | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 4:56 AM
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This isn't technically my life, but a cousin of mine who lives in Burlington has two sons, aged 1 and 3. The older one was diagnosed with autism earlier this year. A few days ago, his wife (38), went to work and dropped dead from what we assume was an aneurysm.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 5:00 AM
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Commiserations to all my poor dear ill or grieving imaginary friends.

I'm just bored atm. Have spent the last 3 weeks doing fuck all, and it's very boring.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 5:09 AM
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Bored is a problem. I was bragging in the other thread about how well I'm doing at work, but wow am I sick of lawyering, and I don't see any way out that leaves me usefully employed.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 5:27 AM
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It was really depressing to have to start couples counseling by saying that I don't want to bother trying to improve the sex or emotional deficiencies because there's no hope and working on that is what drove her out of therapy last time.


Posted by: Not Particularly Presidential | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:32 AM
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Personally, I just have my constant, basically obiectively accurate, feeling of failure and wasted potential....

Fist bump, bro. I find myself recalling Jack Nicholson's other speech in Five Easy Pieces far too often:

Bobby: [finally talking with his paralyzed father] I don't know if you'd be particularly interested in hearing anything about me. My life, I mean... Most of it doesn't add up to much that I could relate as a way of life that you'd approve of... I'd like to be able to tell you why, but I don't really... I mean, I move around a lot because things tend to get bad when I stay. And I'm looking... for auspicious beginnings, I guess... I'm trying to, you know, imagine your half of this conversation... My feeling is, that if you could talk, we probably wouldn't be talking. That's pretty much how it got to be before... I left... Are you all right? I don't know what to say... Tita suggested that we try to... I don't know. I think that she... seems to feel we've got... some understanding to reach... She totally denies the fact that we were never that comfortable with each other to begin with... The best that I can do, is apologize. We both know that I was never really that good at it, anyway... [sobbing] Bobby: I'm sorry it didn't work out.

Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:43 AM
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70: Supposedly there are some modes of administering cannabis that don't have much of a mental effect. Tinctures was one, I think.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:46 AM
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||

NMM2 Doris Lessing. Mildly depressing.

|>


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:03 AM
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I once had a passionate, destructive affair with a woman who lived in the flat where she wrote the Golden Notebooks. Kensington was a lot cheaper in those days.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:11 AM
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This July, my father, who I hadn't seen in ten years, died of stomach cancer. The same day I heard my brother was diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumour, prognosis five to ten years if the radiation therapy works. This and assorted other drama (e.g. suicide of a grandparent, cousin's car accident leaving him quadriplegic) resulted in a major depressive episode which left me unable to work. Not to mention all of the above means that at 35 I still haven't managed to finish my BA.


Posted by: Dolley Madison | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:26 AM
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Dolly that sounds cumulatively dreadful, as well as individually. Sympathies.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 9:05 AM
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Dolley, that sounds awful!

Right now, I'm regretting taking breakup off the table even though all the reasons it would be a bad idea are still in play. I'm just so annoyed by the annoying parts. I wish I were better at being satisfied and happy.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 9:29 AM
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Heartfelt sympathy to Mrs Madison.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 9:33 AM
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I'm trying to decide if coping with the effects, making the adjustments, treating the symptoms of getting old and ever more decrepit are worth the efforts. I know what my next "Great Adventure" will be even while trivial interests are keep me distracted. It's just a question of timing.


Posted by: Hunter S. Thompson | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 9:51 AM
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It looks like I'm going to give the transcranial magnetic brain thing a try this winter, if I can get insurance to cover it. Will keep everyone posted as to how well it works.


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 10:11 AM
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86

I'm thinking my minor but uncomfortable health problem may just never get better.


Posted by: Marie of Roumania | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 10:49 AM
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89: I feel this way about my eczema, various treatments in progress notwithstanding. But it's not a very bad thing, I just hate being itchy all the time/creating unsightly sores when I itch myself when I am sleeping.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 10:57 AM
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And here I didn't think I had anything either good or bad, which I though was mostly good. Still don't have anything personal

And then Adam Kotsko waxed eloquently terse.

In the light of such an absolute and irretrievable failure, I think we need to revise the slogan about it being easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism. It's as though we collectively were given a choice of which we would choose, and we chose to end the world. The decisive victory of liberal-democratic capitalism really was the end of history, just not in the sense intended.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 11:04 AM
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88: I didn't know you were struggling with a brain thing. I'm sorry.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 11:35 AM
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92: Just good ole depression/anxiety/ADHD that remains treatment-resistant. My psychiatrist is optimistic about this treatment, so we shall see.


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 12:05 PM
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means that at 35 I still haven't managed to finish my BA.

Me neither, and I'm 37. You, me, and McQueen can have a meetup and we'll all sit around doing this.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 12:21 PM
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Yesterday I visited my very elderly mom in a rehabilitation center about 5 hours from here and had to drive back to go to the office today. She has an infection - sister just told me they moved her back to the hospital for observation because she isn't getting better. Uggh.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 12:55 PM
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91: Interesting reflection on Kotsko's part. I'm going to assume that it's a response to Roy Scranton's piece in the NYT on learning how to die.

Loomis over at LGM has a contrarian response to the Scranton, explaining that ... well, as far as I can tell, explaining that it's a privileged perspective that supposes that "we" are going to die, given that the less privileged are always already going there.

Anyway, it's an interesting dialogue.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 1:19 PM
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Not that I'm complaining or nothing, but do you know what is gross? The black sludge in a drain pipe that seems to be ever so slightly tilted the wrong way. It was like ink. I probably have typhus now.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 1:21 PM
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Or wait, that's from fleas, right? Probably just the cholera then.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 1:22 PM
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Seconding 43. My sympathies to everyone.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 2:43 PM
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What the hell with these tornadoes?! Late fall FFS? This is not good news.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 4:47 PM
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Huh. I was thinking about complaining about some more stuff, but I don't have a thing going on that wouldn't look out of place compared to the rest of the thread.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 5:45 PM
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Maybe we need a new thread for moderately annoying stuff.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 5:50 PM
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Or possibly I could just grow up and stop whining. It'd be quicker.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 5:56 PM
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That's crazy talk.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 5:56 PM
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Isn't that all the other threads?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 5:56 PM
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109 to 106, originally.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:01 PM
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What do you do when you reach age 40 and your life is superficially highly privileged and accomplished, but you have failed to live up to your expectations, and you are crushingly bored with life? You can't complain because millions of people worldwide would do almost anything to have your life. But my career is in slow-motion self-destruction, my circle of friends is disappearing from a combination of them pairing off and having children and my failure to reach out to them in any meaningful way, and my relationship is dying a slow death of boredom and the realization that we have almost nothing in common. And I think I'm becoming an alcoholic to boot. None of this is anywhere near as tragic as what others have shared, but it's (I think literally) slowly killing me.


Posted by: The Big Dog | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:25 PM
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Have you considered EST?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:33 PM
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I thought that was a cult.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:35 PM
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I thought it was a time zone.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:36 PM
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You're thinking of Scientology Time.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:39 PM
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What do you do when you reach age 40 and your life is superficially highly privileged and accomplished, but you have failed to live up to your expectations, and you are crushingly bored with life?

"Comment here" seems kind of like the obvious answer.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:39 PM
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I thought that was mostly a West Coast thing.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:40 PM
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111: What was the last time you felt really engaged by something in your life? What were you doing? What do you think allowed you to feel that way?


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:46 PM
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112: Heebie, what was the name of the exercise with toes and bars and the snapping of hips?


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:47 PM
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111: I suggest dynamiting your old life to hell and gone, burning most of your bridges behind you, and doing something insanely different. Otherwise you end up sitting in the dark at 3am staring down the muzzle of a loaded, cocked .45 with the safety off and your thumb on the trigger waiting to see if you'll twitch.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:48 PM
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EST sounds better in perspective.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 6:50 PM
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In contrast to 120, I suggest considering that many, many people around the age of 40 feel about their circumstances as you do about yours -- this feeling of anomie is so common, in fact, that there's even a name for it -- and that it often gets better. So maybe, if you're actually doing as well as you seem to know you're doing, give yourself some time to get over the hump. Or blow shit up. Whichever sounds better.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:04 PM
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Also: in the meantime, maybe try couples counseling and drinking a bit less? Seriously, I don't mean to be prescriptive, but it's worth considering that a lot of high-achieving and very privileged people go through midlife crises. Like I said above, it's kind of a thing, even.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:06 PM
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All of that said, I'm sorry you're feeling crappy about you life. That's a lousy way to feel, for sure, and I hope things improve for you soon.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:07 PM
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this feeling of anomie is so common, in fact, that there's even a name for it

LOGAN'S RUN


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:07 PM
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120 made me think that the notion of blow shit up and start over -- the classic 1960s-1970s solution -- may itself have been a product of a uniquely prosperous and free of fear generational moment, that few of us in born in the late 60s-70s share. Or maybe generational comparisons are the cheapest form of commentary short of style section bashing.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:10 PM
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Also, the fact that the midlife crisis is common probably doesn't indicate that it's not real or important -- it may just be a fundamental feature of (much) relatively UMC life, generally resolved only by coming to grips with hopelessness.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:13 PM
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generally resolved only by coming to grips with hopelessness

You mean, like, finding oneself crippled by the looming inevitability of death? Woody Allen pretty much covered that one. Do you want to be like Woody Allen, Halford? Maybe don't answer that.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:15 PM
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I actually kind of hate Woody Allen.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:17 PM
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Antisemite.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:18 PM
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129 is very Woody Allen.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:21 PM
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. . . . a uniquely prosperous and free of fear. . . .

No. The abyss winked during our staring contest.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:22 PM
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123: What about drinking in fewer days but drinking the same? That seems like a strategy, kind of.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:22 PM
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I'm fully aware that my problems are a) typical, b) not worthy of sympathy and c) mostly self-inflicted, which is why I aired them pseudonymously on the internet.

Sometimes I think Logan's Run is a eutopia instead of a dystopia.


Posted by: The Big Dog | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:23 PM
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I actually have occasionally sincerely worried that 129 might mean 130, which would be a big problem for reasons personal, marital, and professional. But seriously not liking Annie Hall and finding almost everything after that like seriously the most annoying shit ever, and finding him personally grating, doesn't mean anything more than that, right?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:24 PM
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Speaking of midlife crises, it's really weird to see the Simpsons still the same age as they were when I was 16.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:25 PM
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What about doing grievous harm to your employer and then fleeing the country?


Posted by: Opinionated Edward Snowden | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:25 PM
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I've kinda blown shit up and started over. It's a pain in the ass.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:25 PM
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135: Maybe it means you're a partially self-hating Jew. If so, join the club. I find much of his work annoying, but not all of it, some I like very much.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:27 PM
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Heebie, what was the name of the exercise with toes and bars and the snapping of hips?

At crossfit, they just call it toes-2-bar. But the people that can do it, do it with a sort of rhythm. There's also knees-2-elbows (same concept) and probably a dozen other microscopic variations on way to kill your abs.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:27 PM
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135: Maybe it means you're a partially self-hating Jew. If so, join the club. I find much of his work annoying, but not all of it, some I like very much.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:28 PM
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What VW said about drinking less - being an alcoholic is only going to make everything harder, and anecdotally if you're at the stage of "I think I might be turning into an alcoholic", deciding to drink less or not at all has a good chance of forestalling the problem before it gets uncontrollable.

On everything else, I don't know what to tell you; I'm in a milder version of a similar place myself. Oh, Buck and I are still good, but we're both kind of a mess in our individual ways right now, so still being good involves mostly apologizing to each other a bunch for not being as present/supportive/fun to be around as we used to be.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:28 PM
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What? Error messages but it posts anyway? Nebbermind.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:29 PM
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129: I don't know about not liking Annie Hall, because how could you not? It has so many truths in it! But his other stuff isn't very good, especially the stuff from the last decade.


Posted by: LizSpigot | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:33 PM
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I probably place too much faith in evolution protecting me from alcoholism. But it seems wrong to doubt Darwin.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:35 PM
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139 nails it, though I'm only very tenuously Jewish.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:35 PM
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Getting Even, Without Feathers, the moose joke and Sleeper are amazing. The rest of it... eh, I dunno. Depends.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:36 PM
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s/b 141.


Posted by: RH | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:36 PM
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Oh, I forgot What's Up Tiger-Lily. That's pretty good.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:36 PM
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"Celebrity" sucked so bad that I think I'm the only male gentile to see it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:40 PM
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After his ex-wife was raped, Allen joked, "Knowing my ex-wife, it probably wasn't a moving violation."


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:47 PM
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Speaking of bashing style sections, maybe Big Dog should crash an Indian wedding.

And live blog it.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:52 PM
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134: for my part, I wasn't saying any of that, BD.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:52 PM
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138 -- Would you trade the life you have right now for any you've ever had, or been within reach of having?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:55 PM
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I can't hate Woody Allen because for some reason I love Manhattan till the day I die. But he sure does have a lot of shitty forgettable movies.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 7:59 PM
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I think I've got sufficient self-hating Jew cred that I don't need to hate Woody Allen to prove it, though.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:00 PM
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Is there anybody self-hating WASPs should guiltily dislike? I'll say right now if it's George Plimpton I just can't go there with you.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:06 PM
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George H.W.Bush.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:10 PM
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self-hating WASPs should guiltily dislike?

If you're going for guilt, maybe black people? Gay teenagers?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:10 PM
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Yeah but that's not a self-hating WASP, quite.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:12 PM
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Woody Allen has roughly the number of shitty forgettable movies you'd expect him to have considering he's made a movie almost every year for more than forty years.


Posted by: Yawnoc | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:12 PM
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So, more than 40 bad movies.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:22 PM
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160: Hate old school, Sifu. Eleanore and Franklin are available.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:22 PM
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Tom Wolfe, maybe.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:24 PM
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Ok, I'll go for more monologuey advice.

134 Is part of your problem. Your issues might be common but that doesn't make them trivial, and they are worthy of sympathy, most importantly your own. I don't mean sitting around drinking and feel sorry for yourself, I just mean acknowledging that boredom and disengagement are very stressful and frightening -- sometimes more so than "real problems." I was just talking with a coworker about how she was happier when she was an uninsured waitress even though now she has a supposedly better job. If you start by trying to care about yourself enough to give yourself some compassion, and respect your own desire to be engaged with what you're doing and who you're spending time with, you might find it easier to make changes, whether external or internal. Wanting to use your gifts towards something you care about, to make something of value, and to have meaningful relationships doesn't make you a whiny loser; it makes you someone who wants to do things that matter. Respect that, and figure out what matters.


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:26 PM
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Real WASPs don't feel guilty about their self-hatred, so it's not comparable. Also Tom Wolfe is most def worse than Woody Allen.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:26 PM
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Yeah most of the candidates I came up with everybody hates because they are obviously terrible.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:30 PM
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Maybe we need a new thread for moderately annoying stuff.

On Friday the anti-virus software on my computer at home said that there was something wrong with the driver for my mouse and recommended sandboxing it (which, among other things, meant that right-click stopped working).

I have spent an annoying amount of time this weekend double-checking the system to make sure everything is okay and trying to re-install the drivers.

...

Trivialities aside, my sympathy for everyone in this thread.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 8:33 PM
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Big Dog, 134 B) and C) at least are true for me, and A) is too if you're willing to generalize sufficiently, yet everyone here is ridiculously kind and supportive. A lot of unhappy families are alike, I guess, and I'm sorry you're having trouble.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 9:00 PM
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A lot of unhappy families are alike

And Tolstoy rolls in his grave.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 9:17 PM
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And Big Dog, talking to a professional can help. Sometimes it feels like all you're doing is whining and complaining pointlessly, but getting that shit out really helps.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 9:18 PM
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Whoa, jeez, so little love for Woody Allen. Yeah, fine, all but a few films after Bullets over Broadway are perfectly forgettable but come on! Love and Death? Manhattan?! Radio Days? Hannah and her Sisters?


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 10:18 PM
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146: wait, you're what?

You think you know a blog...


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 10:20 PM
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I'm pretty sure he's not Jewish in, like, a literal sense.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 10:28 PM
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I would have been in trouble with the Nazis for being ethnically part Jewish, but I'm a religious Christian and was raised as one, and everyone in my family has either been Christian or a hardcore communist/atheist going back at least 3 generations. Taking the self hatred to new levels!


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 10:33 PM
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chris y (at #70): all digits crossed that your consultant is wrong. Would it be ridiculously lower-middle-class/upper-echelon working class to "say a little prayer" for you? Eh, fucketty, I'm going to say a little prayer, nevertheless.


Posted by: Zoé Lafontaine, épouse de Wilfrid Laurier | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 10:43 PM
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After his ex-wife was raped, Allen joked, "Knowing my ex-wife, it probably wasn't a moving violation."

Wait, was that a real thing that happened? I know he told the joke, but sort of assumed/hoped that it was about something fictitious.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 11:05 PM
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I mean, that doesn't make it more suitable subject matter for a joke, admittedly, but still.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-17-13 11:07 PM
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147. You prefer the early, funny, ones?


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 2:44 AM
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168: I had something like that happen. The solution was to stop trying to use the fancy new mouse drivers. Its a mouse, how complex do the drivers need to be? I ended up using some Microsoft mouse driver from, like 1997, that was already on the system, and it worked fine.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 4:48 AM
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172: I should probably see some of those.

179: I do!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 5:04 AM
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I haven't seen it, but I've heard really good things about Woody Allen's new movie Blue Jasmine. People say that it's classic Woody Allen.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:16 AM
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Its a mouse, how complex do the drivers need to be?

There was a mouse just sitting there in the alley on my way in to work. It didn't even scurry until I got three feet away and when it ran, it stayed somewhere visible. It looked nice and fat. I suppose it was infected with toxoplasmosis or it was drunk.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:19 AM
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I'm pretty sure he's not Jewish in, like, a literal sense.

Where it counts?

(No really, what makes him not Jewish?)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:40 AM
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Wait, was that a real thing that happened? I know he told the joke, but sort of assumed/hoped that it was about something fictitious.


I guess it was fictitious.
My apologies to Mr. Allen.


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:48 AM
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He did still marry his long-time partner's daughter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:52 AM
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re: 185

Wiki claims his ex-wife sued him, over those comments.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:56 AM
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That and other "wicked and malicious" remarks, including some told on national TV while her picture was displayed.


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 7:06 AM
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This comment goes in the good and bad. But, right now, I am wallowing and unmoored. So I will post it here.

My daughter is now in a group home. So far, it seems to be mostly going well for her.

But, it feels vastly different from when my son went off to school. He is independent and learning to take care of himself.

Essentially, I've given my daughter to someone else so that they can take care of her. Even though I know it is the correct decision, it is killing me. She still needs the same 24/7 care, but someone who isn't her father is doing it.

I imagine that this is what professional athletes feel like when they retire when they can still play. I can still do it better than they can. I still want to do it. Even though it is the right time for her, I miss her terribly and feel like an essential part of who I am is gone.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 7:07 AM
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I'm sorry, Will. That does sound hard.

(Also, there are so many comments above that I didn't respond specifically to, but want to, in a heartfelt way.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 7:09 AM
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Will, I've been thinking of you and wondering if that's how it felt. I've had other friends who've gone through having to transition children to group homes or long-term residential treatment and they've all gone through the same grieving. (Hell, I did some of it for a child who was only gone a week.) You are and have been such a great dad to her and it must be such a change to not be her day-to-day parent too, but unfortunately taking on that pain and change is part of being a great dad. And I'll shut up now because this sounds maudlin and hollow, but I am really impressed by you and what you're going through.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 7:15 AM
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Will, that sounds rough. Best to both you and your daughter.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 7:53 AM
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Sorry to hear of your grief, will. That has been such an intense connection, for such a long time, you probably shouldn't expect to turn on a dime. I hope things get easier, sooner though.

||
Sorta related to this thread, I've been feeling contrary about the whole Rob Ford thing. There was some icon I just saw with 3 pictures of Ford looking fat and flushed and vituperative. And I was thinking, here's a guy that's maybe not so different from me. Sure, we have opposite politics, and he makes a lot more money than I do, and he's clearly got much worse issues with chemical dependency than I've ever had. But we're both fat white guys in early middle age. How much of the opprobrium that he's come in for is subtly colored by the fact that he just happens to look like a buffoon, in addition to being one in fact? What deep well of pain and self-loathing is he drawing from to do all these incredibly stupid and self-destructive things? Those binges that have recently been reported on are not the work of a happy person. Obviously, to the extent that he's done some very harmful things that were sober, conscious, political decisions that he received a lot of support for from the right wing, that's very bad and he ought to be kicked out of office. But that's not what has him in trouble -- it's his weakness and sadness and estrangement that's going to ruin his political career, not his actual stupid politics. So yeah, I don't think he should be mayor of Toronto, but I sure hope he can get to a place of more peace and contentment, eventually, 'cause he doesn't seem that alien to me.
||>


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 8:55 AM
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Some things are just too funny not to laugh at.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 9:00 AM
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Oh, believe me, I see the humor in someone crashing and burning so spectacularly.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 9:05 AM
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I always felt a lot of identification with Monica Lewinsky. We're both from L.A., same coloring, same weight fluctuations, she seems bright enough. I never liked that she was made into a joke.

***
Will, I am sorry to hear that you are floundering in your empty nest. From what I've read, you are really good at being good to her. But since I believe that you only make decisions that are good for her, it follows that this one is too.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 9:15 AM
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Very nicely written Will, and very touching.

That sounds both sad, and like a good move -- and it also makes me feel glad (again) that unfogged is the sort of place that people feel comfortable sharing things like that. You have written a lot about her and it's clear how large a part of your life she has been.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 9:23 AM
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I appreciate 193 with regard to being an insecure fat guy, but as Rob Ford is also an ignorant rich fuck from a family of ignorant rich fucks, and also a high school football coach, I still say fuck that guy.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 9:33 AM
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Well, now I'm picturing him as Coach McGuirk.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 9:38 AM
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Sympathy, Will, but you are doing the right thing.

I have relations that would not let go of their adult incompetent children, and the results have not been pretty.

My wife and I face a similar situation with her daughter.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 9:39 AM
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Late to the game, but anyway - I've come to the conclusion that my relationship with alcohol is a problem. I've been dragging myself slowly out of a deep pit of depression and misery going on nearly seven years now. Hitting one thing at a time, fixing one problem and moving on to the next. Now it's booze that seems to stand in the way. I've thought about trying AA but the whole higher power thing is a huge stumbling block, not to mention the fact that I don't want a sponsor looking over my shoulder. I want to do this myself. This week is my test period to see if I can just go cold turkey. If not I'm really not sure what I'll do.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 9:41 AM
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Comment more? I mean, god knows if it'd help, but there's always someone around to talk to.

I think you're doing the right thing, though. Like I said above, anecdotally, there does seem to be a point for a lot of people where drinking is turning into a problem, but they're still in control enough that just stopping is still an option, and if you think that might be you, then stopping is the way to go.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 9:54 AM
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200: I have relations that would not let go of their adult incompetent children, and the results have not been pretty.

We're hitting the point where my in-laws will very soon be unable to care for my brother-in-law anymore, and that transition is going to be awful for everyone. Doing it now is the right thing. Or at least a right thing.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 9:55 AM
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189: I'm sorry, Will. There been a big hole torn out of your life, it has to hurt. IMO, it's the right thing to do this while you're still capable of helping out if needed.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 10:04 AM
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not to mention the fact that I don't want a sponsor looking over my shoulder

Early on, this seems like it could be a really useful feature. Down the road... Yeah, I can see where the idea of someone keeping tabs on you starts to feel a little creepy. Either way, I hope cold turkey proves easier than you think. Judging from my pre-divorce period, alcohol and depression are not a helpful mix.

I was talking to a guy this weekend who mentioned an older parent had fallen because both parents are more or less in the habit of getting fall down drunk every night. His solution? Encouraging exercising to build strength and flexibility to reduce the chance of injury.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 10:05 AM
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202,205: Thanks. 205.last made me laugh out loud. Because I am a bad person.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 10:19 AM
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It could always be worse: http://www.buzzfeed.com/regajha/this-guys-live-tweets-of-his-neighbors-break-up-are-hilariou


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 10:27 AM
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201: I second LB's commenting suggestion! It sounds like you have a plan and I know you've managed to make yourself exercise, which is always sort of impressive to me, and I hope this will similarly work the way you need it to in a way that you can control. If there's anything I can do to help you, please ask. And ditto to 206!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 10:40 AM
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togolosh, if the higher power stuff is what's stopping you from AA, but you are interested in seeing whether meetings help, there are other options. Lifering is a secular one; there may be Buddhist groups close to you too.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 10:41 AM
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Will, I'm so sorry you're feeling unmoored. Could you say more, just because I'm sympathetically curious about you both, about how your daughter is experiencing the change? Are there things she likes about living in a group home?


Posted by: Mme. Merle | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 10:57 AM
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feel like an essential part of who I am is gone

It is, of course. But for the past many years, other essential parts of who you are have surely been buried deep in the closet of around-the-clock responsibility.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 11:17 AM
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My impression is that AA works in a lot of different ways. Like not every group is going to be focused on a religious definition of "higher power" and maybe not every sponsor is going to look over your shoulder. I certainly get the hesitation about it. It's designed to make big changes in your life, and my impression is some of them can feel ego-dystonic.

I've never had a relationship with liquor that gave me much pause, but I've sometimes wondered how I'd do with twelve step. I'm simultaneously put off and intrigued by the way it seems to overhaul people. God knows there's a lot of annoying formula to it (things like, as one woman told me, "say 'poor me' too much and it turns into 'poor me...poor me...POUR ME A DRINK!" AGGGGHH) but the other thing about it is it seems to work for kind of a lot of people?


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 11:22 AM
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but the other thing about it is it seems to work for kind of a lot of people?

Roger Ebert wrote positively about his experience with AA.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 11:31 AM
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212: I think you are right in that there's a fair amount of variation between groups, sponsors, etc. I have a good friend who's working the program rigorously and it seems to work for her. I should talk to her about this.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 11:41 AM
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189: Sympathies, will, that sounds unimaginably hard.

201: I wouldn't presume to offer advice on how anyone should deal with alcohol concerns, but 212 has been my take on the experience of quite a few people close to me (including a good chunk of my family) who have maintained an impressive track record of sobriety with AA or related programs. Some of them were put off by the higher-power stuff, but found it not to be as big a stumbling block as they expected. (A subject that's been addressed, in passing, in the archives.) The slogan stuff is excruciatingly cloying, but it works for some people and so what the hell does it matter if it's cloying? And from what I know of their sponsor/sponsee relationships (admittedly, not all that much) it seems more about someone to turn to for help and to help you cut through the bullshit/denial than someone to really be watching over your shoulder.

But of course this is something in which everyone's mileage varies tremendously. Good luck with it.


Posted by: potchkeh | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 11:46 AM
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And the piece NickS linked in 213 is great but it looks like it's been truncated; the full version addresses some of the higher power/religion stuff more directly.


Posted by: potchkeh | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 11:54 AM
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A friend of mine went into recovery 6-7 years ago and my biggest reactions, hearing about it, were envy at the idea of having instant community, resistance to how (especially at first) it's really supposed to dictate a large amount of how you live your life and think about things, and envy again at the idea of having someone you can call up when you're afraid you're going to fuck up. I think there's something daunting about it for anyone, especially smart/anti-authoritarian sorts, but if it seems like the problem really isn't manageable, I think it is 100% worth checking out. If it's not for you, you look for something else. If it does work for you, your life starts getting easier.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 12:00 PM
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A friend of mine starting going to AA a few months ago, and (yes, yes, correlation != causation) it seems to have been enormously helpful. In any case, he's doing much, much better, and if AA's helped with that, good for it.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 12:25 PM
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I made a decision to go to HR over my boss who has been super abusive. The meeting she asked me to go to tomorrow will be super tough, but I think that I might be able to finagle a transfer to a new job. That will buy me time and some sanity.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 12:36 PM
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219: Sounds like you made a good move! Good luck with the meeting!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 12:37 PM
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Will--I don't know how VA works, but they may also be trying to teach her skills and not just take care of her. I don't know whether the thought of her growing to be a bit more independent is helpful, but I offer it.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 1:00 PM
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219: Good for you, BG! Hope tomorrow we get to hear how well it went.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 1:04 PM
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A friend of mine started AA about a year ago and it seems to have been really helpful. He was very troubled for a long time, although in a pretty functional (career-wise) way. I don't think I would have described his main problem as substance abuse; more like a complex of symptoms drawn from various DSM disorders, plus some things that just made him interpersonally unpleasant a lot of the time. But at some point recently, maybe as a result of these other problems, he started drinking even more, and then he figured he should do AA. From what I can tell, it's been great for him -- not just quitting drinking, which he really needed to do, but maybe more importantly giving him some kind of framework for examining himself and his relationships. The framework is maybe not the most accurate -- basically, he ends up explaining a lot of his life in terms of substance abuse, which is probably not the biggest thing going on -- but it does have a very useful confluence of freedom from self-condemnation and impetus to change. So my friend feels the safety to take a hard look at things that aren't working, but he also feels supported when he decides to change some of those things.


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 1:15 PM
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The same sister-in-law has at times drank a ferocious amount nightly, but has toned it down in the last year or so, mostly out of caloric concerns.

In my uninformed opinion, she's drinking to self-medicate her anxiety and general distress, and that if she capped the alcohol, something else would substitute or unravel. But any sort of counseling or medication is absolutely off the table, so. Alcohol it is, but now only a few times a week.


Posted by: LadyBird Johnson | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 1:29 PM
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I am proud of my self-medicating alcoholic brother for deciding not to get his license reinstated until he passes the period where he'll face severe penalties if he's caught driving drunk again. I don't like that it's still an option, but at least he's being responsible about his irresponsibility.


Posted by: Edith Wilson | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 1:35 PM
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All my uncles, including the one who shuffled off last year, and my father, have been pretty successful with AA. Two of them religious, two not so much. Sadly, my aunt started drinking recently, and has managed to screw her life up even worse than it already was. I am somewhat pessimistic about her chances, given her age (early 60s) and general poor health. She could very well drink herself to death in short order.

I tried Overeaters Anonymous this year, but it didn't seem to do me much good. Obviously, as they say right at the beginning, addiction to overeating is a bit different from many of the other addictions, in that you can't really go cold-turkey, as such. So there's a lot of havering around the idea of renouncing compulsive overeating. Which is fine as far as it goes, but it did seem to play into a lot of diet ideologies. Also, the group as a whole is 80% women, so it's a bit of a stretch to find male sponsors.

Been thinking more and more about Buddhism, actually, which would be a sneaky way to get around the Higher Power stuff if I decided to go back to OA. And might be good on its own, at least as far as meditation and detachment and stuff would go.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 1:55 PM
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I never understood how the "detachment" stuff in Buddhism was supposed to be hard until somebody finally explained that Buddhists weren't just trying to avoid interaction with other people.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 1:58 PM
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My mom sometimes says "Sure it's easy to be peaceful and zen in a monastery. I'd like to see them in a room full of two year olds for a day."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 2:28 PM
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205.last made me laugh out loud. Because I am a bad person.

Me too. Me too.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 2:32 PM
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227: Yeah, it's supposed to get you through real life. IMX much of it makes sense and, as measured by my lowered blood pressure and zero expenditure of violence on morons walking backwards while fucking around with their iShit, works. The hardest part was getting past the gibberish added over the centuries.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 3:31 PM
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We've got a project at work which involves interacting with another department headed by a guy who my boss regards as scary belligerent, and we need to draft a document in a way with his cooperation in a way that she thinks he will object to. Getting the thing actually drafted in cooperation with him or his people is my job. She's really bent out of shape about this not turning into a big shouty event.

Somehow, though, her caution about this has expressed itself into micromanaging my comments on their draft of the document to sound more hostile and aggressive. Seriously -- you want to start a fight? Send out the hostile comments under your own name. You want me to handle it? Then let me sweet-talk them into doing what we want. I'm good at that sort of thing. But using me as a sockpuppet to be unpleasant with? Just seems like a poor idea all around, and the hand up my ass is uncomfortable.


Posted by: Joan of Arc | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 4:34 PM
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I don't have anything big picture important to complain about, but:

I/my client just got totally fucked by the municipality. The background is long and dull, but the bottom line is that they arbitrarily made a break with convention without telling us they were going to do it. We were supposed to have a building permit issued this week (actually, last week), with electrical and mechanical permits to follow. Then, on Thursday, they tell us that won't issue any permits until they have all the drawings. If I'd known this, I could have prepared the electrical and mechanical drawings 5 weeks ago, but there was no (apparent) rush, so I've been doing other things, and now my client's going to be pissed, and the project will be delayed.

Fuck fuck fuck.

Fuck.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 4:51 PM
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Obviously, as they say right at the beginning, addiction to overeating is a bit different from many of the other addictions, in that you can't really go cold-turkey, as such.

Could you sort of simulate cold-turkey by radically changing the types of food you eat? A friend is more or less doing that -- no white flour, no sugar, no processed food, no meats, no dairy, no alcohol. And no coffee because she only likes it with cream and sugar. I am in awe of her discipline and she reports feeling better than she has in years.

In less upbeat news, we just learned that my boyfriends two-month old nephew died today. He'd finally come home from the hospital this week and everyone thought he was more or less out of the woods. Just stopped breathing.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 5:45 PM
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233: A radical change in content helps but there's still the portion size issue. For me, eyeballing it doesn't work well and I don't care enough to get all OCD with a scale.

everyone thought he was more or less out of the woods: That's the worst kind of disaster, I think. It's very, very hard not to get enraged at the universe, god, God, Cthulhu, and the little old lady using a walker but crossing the intersection too slowly.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:09 PM
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You want depressing shit? Here's depressing shit. Are these murder-suicide of entire family things getting more common, or just more reported? Wasn't there one in NYC a month or two ago?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:42 PM
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233 last: sending thoughts your way. How awful.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:45 PM
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And didn't just come home from the hospital this week. Was being put into the car seat to leave the hospital. Ugh. I cannot even imagine.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:46 PM
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t how your daughter is experiencing the change? Are there things she likes about living in a group home?

So far she loves it. There have been a few bumps, but nothing to major.

She had some seizures this weekend. When I was leaving after going to check on her later in the day, she grabbed her coat and wanted to leave with me.

I recognize that my pain is fairly self-centered and silly. Such a rough problem to have your disabled child is a place that she likes and appears to be taking care of her well.

Other people have real, difficult problems. A nephew dying? Struggling with substances? Horrible, life-sucking bosses? Real problems.

Me? I've been laid low by something that is mostly good. Nothing like life to show you how weak, silly, and self-indulgent you really are.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:49 PM
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Was being put into the car seat to leave the hospital.

What a crushing blow. I can't even begin to think of how that must bring your bf's family to their knees.
So sorry.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:52 PM
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Oh, will, I promise I'll come back and reread this when I have my little breakdown about not being a foster parent anymore. (I'm essentially not a foster parent anymore as we're not taking more kids and the two who aren't adopted are on the road to adoption, maybe in the next six months or so.) And then I typed more stuff I've deleted because who cares? But you've spent such a ridiculously huge number of hours making living your own life about taking care of her, and not having that is going to be a huge chasm of something, not potential yet. etc.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:57 PM
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oh no, Thorn!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 6:59 PM
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Depressing thread. God knows I wish I knew how to deal with depression. But my one silver lining is that alcohol and other strongly intoxicating drugs are not at all a temptation (as opposed to nicotine and caffeine). To the point that my shrink and I see me opening a bottle of wine and drinking a glass or two at home alone as a minor positive sign. My best wishes to everyone on here.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 7:09 PM
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the two who aren't adopted are on the road to adoption, maybe in the next six months or so.

oh no, Thorn!

Am I reading this wrong? My first thought when I saw this was that you and Lee were adopting the remaining two (bolstered by the fact that you describe the breakdown as being in the future, rather than current, which makes me think that you aren't preparing for any of your current kids to leave the house).


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 7:12 PM
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243: I think will was just lamenting that I'm all maudlin about it! But no, Lee and Nia had probably their best weekend ever, and apparently we'll have a date for the important hearing in Nia's case before Thanksgiving, meaning the hearing will happen early next year probably. She'll be able to be adopted a few months after that, and the baby should be on a similar timeline. And then we'll be a legal family and I really will try not to break up because it's better for them to have two involved moms.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 7:15 PM
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I cannot even imagine.

Me either. My thoughts are with them.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 7:32 PM
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Other people have real, difficult problems.

As do you. Lots of people have things way worse than lots of other people. Hard is still hard.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-18-13 7:43 PM
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Today I am so glad and relieved that Albuquerque voted down the proposed municipal ban on post-20 week abortions. It was targeting Southwest Women's Options, where we had to go.

Thank you, Albuquerque! I'll never go back to that city, but they were there when we needed them. Now, for a while longer, they'll be there for other parents who need them.


Posted by: anon for this one | Link to this comment | 11-20-13 11:38 AM
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